divine/arcane builds

[Mechanize]

My friend was asking about some fun divine/arcane builds. I know little about them, and told him I would ask on here since you guys seem to know everything about this game lol. He mentioned mystic theurge and asked if druid spells counted as divine.

Any suggestions on a build like this?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Druid does count as divine yes.

In general Theurge builds are considered less powerful than full casters since while you have tons of spell a) you still only have a set of actions to cast them b) usually you will lag a lot in spell acquisition and c) you are MAD-der than a single class caster. Having said that, there are ways to mitigate that.

a) For the first problem there are a lot of ways for casters to play with the action economy so you want to get a few ways to do that (Quicken-spell is the "easiest", most straight forward way).

b) Early entry or fast-advancement prestige classes are your friends here; but take into account that some DM consider them quite cheesy (rightly so)

c) Finally you want to make your casting stats as synergistic as possible (Psion/Wizard Cerebremancer and Wizard/Archivist Mystic Theurge fro Int Synergy, Ardent/Cleric Psychic Theurger for Wis focus, etc)

A druid/arcane theurger class, the Arcane Hierophant (Races of the Wild I am not mistaken) is extremely good since you don't need to select a main casting type (thanks to Mystic Theurge) IIRC the classic entry is something like Wizard 1 (Precocious Apprentice) /Druid 3/Mystic Theurge 2/Arcane Hierophant 10/ Mystic Theurge +4 or something along the lines of that.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Druid is indeed an excellent theurge choice.

Instead of going straight into Mystic Theurge, might I suggest something more along the lines of Druid 3/Wizard 1 (with Collegiate Wizard)/Arcane Hierophant 10/Mystic Theurge 6?

19th level Druid casting, 17th level Wizard casting (Dual 9s), and actual class features.

Arcane Hierophant is in Races of the Wild, page 108.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Druid is indeed an excellent theurge choice.

Instead of going straight into Mystic Theurge, might I suggest something more along the lines of Druid 3/Wizard 1 (with Collegiate Wizard)/Arcane Hierophant 10/Mystic Theurge 6?

19th level Druid casting, 17th level Wizard casting (Dual 9s), and actual class features.

Arcane Hierophant is in Races of the Wild, page 108.

I think you mean Precocious Apprentice, Collegiate Wizard "only" gives bonus spell for your spellbook equal to your int mod.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Druid is indeed an excellent theurge choice.

Instead of going straight into Mystic Theurge, might I suggest something more along the lines of Druid 3/Wizard 1 (with Collegiate Wizard)/Arcane Hierophant 10/Mystic Theurge 6?

19th level Druid casting, 17th level Wizard casting (Dual 9s), and actual class features.

Arcane Hierophant is in Races of the Wild, page 108.

I think you mean Precocious Apprentice, Collegiate Wizard "only" gives bonus spell for your spellbook equal to your int mod.

[gorfnab]

The Urge to Theurge - A Theurge Handbook WIP (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224999) has some suggestions on how to build a dual caster.

Theurge builds I like:
Savage Bard 8/ Ur-Priest 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Mystic Theurge 8
Warlock 4/ Binder 1/ Ur-Priest 2/ Eldritch Disciple 2/ Hellfire Warlock 3/ Eldritch Disciple 8 (or Eldritch Disciple 2/ Mindbender 1/ Eldritch Disciple 5)
Wizard (Spontaneous Divination ACF) 5/ Knight of the Weave 1/ Ultimate Magus 10/ Incantatrix 4
Wizard (Precocious Apprentice) 1/ Shadowcaster 3/ Noctumancer 10/ Mystic Theurge 6

[Kuulvheysoon]

I think you mean Precocious Apprentice, Collegiate Wizard "only" gives bonus spell for your spellbook equal to your int mod.

Damn, you're right.

Oh well, at least my other advice is right (and I can confirm Arcane Hierophant's location in RotW for you).

gorfnab, +1 for Knight of the Weave. I absolutely adore that class, but no-one's ever heard of it.

[Mechanize]

I apologize, I forgot to mention that the magic incarnum and psionics books are not allowed to be used for this campaign.

Thank you for the suggestions though, I am sure it will come in handy. He was unsure where to start looking. This helps a lot.

[Harry]

There's also wizard7/mind bender1/ur priest 2/mystic theurge9/tainted scholar 1 with the ritual of alignment. For double nines, night-infinite spells, telepathy. And awesome flavor.

[Hirax]

Human paragon1/wizard2/human paragon+2/ur-priest2/theurge8/Halruaan elder5

Human paragon at first level for more skill points. This gets 9th level wizard and cleric spells, plus circle magic and -1 to two metamagic feats of your choice.

Wizard5/mindbender1/ur-priest2/theurge8/incantatrix4

9th level cleric and wizard spells, plus incantatrix metamagic shenanigans.

Human paragon 1/crusader4/ur-priest2/ruby knight vindicator10/master of nine3

Ok, it's blade magic/divine instead of divine/arcane, this one is fun. If you can get the deity requirement waived and ridiculous feat requirements waived for master of nine, it becomes a lot better.

Savage bard5/ur-priest2/savage bard+3/sublime chord2/theurge8

I've never used this one personally, but many others like it.

[Mechanize]

How does this type of theurge/druid build work with wild shape? Can he do both at the same time?

[Kazyan]

How does this type of theurge/druid build work with wild shape? Can he do both at the same time?

He cannot. Wild Shape is a separate feature of the Druid class and isn't advanced by any* theurge class, because it's not spellcasting. If he reaches Druid level 5, he can Wild Shape, but it's generally understood that a theurge will want to get into their chosen theurge class as soon as possible.

*Well, Fochlucan Lyrist, but yeesh, high-maintenance much?

[Harry]

There's also Druid 5/beholder mage 2/arcane Hierophant 10/Planar Shepard 3.

If you don't mind chees.

Better yet you could go divine minion (LA bought off)/Druid 10/ planar Shepard 10 with aberrant wildshape.

Use aberrant wildshape for black Ethergaunt. They have level 17 wizard spell casting.

[Arcanist]

Druid is indeed an excellent theurge choice.

This is massive understatement :smalltongue:


Instead of going straight into Mystic Theurge, might I suggest something more along the lines of Druid 3/Wizard 1 (with Collegiate Wizard)/Arcane Hierophant 10/Mystic Theurge 6?

But... But... Your loosing one of the most awesome benefits of being a Druid :smallfrown: WILD SHAPE! :smallbiggrin:


If you do not already possess the ability, you gain no ability to wild shape.

Quite unfortunate I know :smallfrown: BUT! this is the playground, if there is a Will, there is a way :smallbiggrin:

Druid/5 Wizard/1 Arcane Hierophant/10 Mystic Theurge/4

Hmm... *Scribble* NOPE! Does not compute :smallfrown: WELL I guess with Arcane Hierophant you just can't have your cake and eat it too :smalltongue: ... Hmm... You could always go:

Bamboo Spirit Folk

Wild Shaping Ranger/1 Druid/2 Wizard/2 Arcane Heirophant/10 Mystic Theurge/5 and have 17th level casting and some good Wild Shaping abilities :smallconfused:

Feats:

1: [Any Metamagic]
3: Sanctum Spell
6-18 of whatever you want.

Of course most of the stuff in this build is so debatable in it's legality that it's actually quite hilarious in my opinion. :smalltongue:

[Kuulvheysoon]

But... But... Your loosing one of the most awesome benefits of being a Druid :smallfrown: WILD SHAPE! :smallbiggrin:

Well, if we're getting cheesy anyways, why not just flat-out abuse Divine Minion?

[Harry]

You mean kinda like what that Harry guy said?:smallwink:

[Arcanist]

Well, if we're getting cheesy anyways, why not just flat-out abuse Divine Minion?

I like variation for my Wild Shaping instead of just a single form (2 if you count your original). I'm hoping I'm reading the template wrong, otherwise I have no idea why people like it so much :smallsigh:


You mean kinda like what that Harry guy said?:smallwink:

Beholder Mage is just a fun class :smallamused:

I do, however hate Beholders for that exact reason :smallsigh:

[SaintRidley]

Note that if you are using Precocious Apprentice for early entry (I am not a fan of early entry, but if it flies at your table, good for you) you still need 5 class levels before you can hit Arcane Hierophant due to the skill requirement. Druid 3/Wiz 1 doesn't cut it - you need Druid 4/Wiz1 or Druid 3/Wiz 2.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I like variation for my Wild Shaping instead of just a single form (2 if you count your original). I'm hoping I'm reading the template wrong, otherwise I have no idea why people like it so much :smallsigh:


Early entry into Master of the Many forms along with unlimited wildshaping? There is probably some abuse or trick with [Wild] feats, which normally require to expend an use of Wildshape to activate.

And I think Divine Minion was one of Pun-Pun ways of accession pre-FCI (level 4 if I am not mistaken)

[Arcanist]

Early entry into Master of the Many forms along with unlimited wildshaping? There is probably some abuse or trick with [Wild] feats, which normally require to expend an use of Wildshape to activate.

And I think Divine Minion was one of Pun-Pun ways of accession pre-FCI (level 4 if I am not mistaken)

Ooo, I forgot about Master of Many Forms...
...
...
...
Can I add 2 flaws to my previous build? :smallbiggrin:

[kardar233]

Early entry into Master of the Many forms along with unlimited wildshaping? There is probably some abuse or trick with [Wild] feats, which normally require to expend an use of Wildshape to activate.

And I think Divine Minion was one of Pun-Pun ways of accession pre-FCI (level 4 if I am not mistaken)

Level 4, ECL 5. Divine Minion Wizard3/MoMF1.

[Arcanist]

The Urge to Theurge - A Theurge Handbook WIP (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224999) has some suggestions on how to build a dual caster.

I'm a usurper :smallfrown: