Plz give example of 1st lvl half dragon paladin :(

[Ozreth]

I've never messed with templates or LA and I rolled up one of these for a few and it seems insane : (

[Dusk Eclipse]

If you have never messed with Templates I think it is safe to say you probably don't understand how LA works, or am I wrong?

In any case I suggest you give Ur-Priest's Monstrous Monster Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207928) a good read.

In anycase why does it seems insane? Does the stat bonus seems a lot for a level 1 character?

[LTwerewolf]

A level 1 half-dragon paladin is actually a level 4 character assuming the base race you picked has no level adjustment.

[Glimbur]

Compare it to a level 4 paladin. That's what level adjustment does: you are so super special awesome that you should be as good as someone higher level than you.

ECL 4 means you should get WBL of 4th level so assume the same gear for this comparison.

Half Drag Pal 1: has +1 to hit and +~4 to damage from the +8 str over the 4th level paladin. +4 AC, natural attacks you might use at low levels, breath weapon 1/day for 6d8. Immune to sleep and paralysis. Approximately 13 hp.

Paladin 4: Divine Grace, Lay on Hands, Aura of Courage, Divine Health, Turn Undead. +1 Fort, ref, and will save over half dragon (not counting Divine Grace). More skill points and higher skill cap. More HD to resist level drain (not likely at this level). 15 hit points more than half dragon, or about 28 hp. One more feat than Half Dragon.

Overall, the Half Dragon hits harder but is kind of fragile. That's often what happens with LA. The other thing to remember is that class features can be really good.

[rockdeworld]

I've never messed with templates or LA and I rolled up one of these for a few and it seems insane : (
It is insane for most templates, in the sense that they're not worth it. Half-Dragon is one of those types of templates.

[Eldariel]

The biggest issue with Templates is missing out on Hit Dice which can have a huge impact especially later; Polymorph into anything worthwhile requires the subject to have hit dice for instance, and it's indirectly the only protection against e.g. Power Words, and directly against Blasphemy/Cloudkill/Color Spray/etc.

Extra attacks and Power Attack also come from BAB so while a Half-Dragon might have more Strength than a Human, Human does much more damage on a Shock Trooper charge or with a simple full attack on level 6.


If you can use Level Adjustment Buyoff (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm), you're generally good to go only behind some experience (so about one level, which is quite reasonable, and able to catch up) but that's only really an option for Level Adjustment +1 to +2 Templates.

Level Adjustment +3 Template won't be fully bought off before level 18, for example, and the buyoff is quite expensive. Which means power-wise, Level Adjustment +3 character is generally gonna be behind a non-adjusted character for his whole career.

[ericgrau]

Half-dragon is about right or slightly strong for mid level core or low to moderate optimization. At low levels it will be too fragile. In high optimization groups the tweakers will figure out better things to do with 3 levels.

I would suggest waiting until at least party level 7-8 (class level 4-5) to start a new half dragon character. If your group isn't much more experienced than you then it isn't under-powered at all. You might also beg the DM to reduce the LA to 2 for the first 3-4 levels or do something else like give hp to compensate for your fragility. Then take away the boost later. Besides that use the breath weapon liberally; it wipes low level encounters and it's better to use it than for your fragile self to be dead while you still have it in reserve.

[alchemyprime]

This probably won't help much, but maybe ask your DM if, instead of going half-dragon right away, maybe you could split it up into like a Paragon class kind of a thing? I know I allowed that, splitting it into essentially a five level prestige class that let you go half dragon and get all those goodies.

Of course, I'm weird for a GM according to my players. So take my advice with a grain of salt.

[ericgrau]

Delaying the benefits and cost of the LA works very well too. That's not weird at all. I dunno about 5 levels but at least splitting it into 3 chunks of LA would be nice. Then the player can pick them up gradually once he has enough class levels to make it painless. Heck the first LA could be the same as draconic, the third is obvious so that only leaves you to figure out the 2nd LA. I'd suggest taking 2 class levels before each LA. For fluff even at LA 0 the character could have some minor dragon-looking features that grow over time.

[Twilightwyrm]

This probably won't help much, but maybe ask your DM if, instead of going half-dragon right away, maybe you could split it up into like a Paragon class kind of a thing? I know I allowed that, splitting it into essentially a five level prestige class that let you go half dragon and get all those goodies.

Of course, I'm weird for a GM according to my players. So take my advice with a grain of salt.

This can actually be accomplished with the Draconic/Half-Dragon Racial class from Races of Dragon pg 70-71.

[Novawurmson]

This probably won't help much, but maybe ask your DM if, instead of going half-dragon right away, maybe you could split it up into like a Paragon class kind of a thing? I know I allowed that, splitting it into essentially a five level prestige class that let you go half dragon and get all those goodies.

Of course, I'm weird for a GM according to my players. So take my advice with a grain of salt.

This actually an excellent idea for dealing with templates. Did the same with a player in my group turning into a werewolf.