Magic Without Items?

[Palanan]

In the next chapter of my campaign, the PCs will be plunging into an unknown wilderness, populated only by scattered tribes. There will be challenges and storyline aplenty, but magic items will be rare to nonexistent, and I'm trying to think of an alternative approach that would still let the PCs keep up with the Joneses' WBL.

So far, I've only come up with a couple of options:

1. I could just use locally produced handicrafts in place of standard magic items--the cowry shell of wizardry or whatnot--but that trivializes the cultures involved, and doesn't really support the idea of scarcity. These cultures have divine magic, but modestly, and no real skill at crafting items.

2. However, the local nature goddess will be an active presence in the wilderness, and she might confer specific blessings or favors on certain party members, equivalent to magic item effects, depending on whether their actions please her.

3. Or, rather than a static magic effect, the local version of Eywa might grant limited spellcasting ability, 1/day for one or more spells, even to party members who ordinarily wouldn't be spellcasters. (By definition these would be divine spells.)

But this raises some issues:

The latter two cases both have the same deep flaw, in that the benefits hinge on the PCs' actions and behavior pleasing Eywa, which is chancy at best. (We know how PCs are.)

Even if they do stay on her good side, it's hard to imagine these would be lifelong benefits--the effects would wane once they left her wilderness--nor could they be sold or traded out at higher levels, a lá your typical magic-mart.

But I like the idea of subtle magic welling up from the earth itself, making itself available in some form that simply doesn't occur in other lands, and which makes the idea of magic tied to a specific object almost irrelevant. I'd like to develop this, just not sure what approach to take.

That's the direction I'm thinking, although this is just a starting point. I should emphasize I'm not looking to replace magic items on a permanent basis, only for this one portion of the campaign--but I don't want the PCs to fall behind as a result.

So, I'd appreciate any ideas or suggestions along these lines--and I'd be interested to know if anyone else has tried something similar, and how it worked out.
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[Flickerdart]

Eywa would recognize that the PCs wouldn't care to do anything on her behalf without rewards, and confer upon them more permanent benefits (such as templates - the Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis is a good start for pricing the monetary worth of template granted abilities). If not, those working against her interests would probably be more than happy to recruit the PCs to their cause with shiny Permanencied buffs. Long-duration buffs might also be useful - the local cleric providing Extended Greater Magic Weapon can keep their bonuses top notch, and would give them a vested interest in protecting that cleric.

You could also plant some ancient ruins around. The natives might not have magic bling, but it doesn't mean there isn't any to be found. There could also be places of power hidden in the wilderness that can be tapped to produce a long-lasting magical boon.

[Pilo]

There are some other options:

You may create an alternate source for the property of the magic item, like souls. Weapon can trap the souls of enemies when killed and then give abilities to their wearers. So your barbarians NPCs who have killed lots of braves may have hateful bloodseeker weapons. (Like the sword Cyric founds when he was still a rogue, which required to be bath in blood every 3 days)

In the Midnight setting, magic items scale in power as their carriers gain levels.
(Characters may spend up to 10% of the XPs they win in their magic items and magic items levels worth up to 10% of regular character levels, weak magic items requires less XP to progress)

[Flickerdart]

Actually, progressing existing magic items is a good idea. Steal the mechanics from Disgaea - an item contains, or is otherwise linked to, guardians, which must be fought or appeased in order to increase its power. Want to boost your Necklace of Natural Armour? Slay a particular dragon. Sword needs improvement? Defeat the spirit of the legendary knight that is held within. And so on.

[GolemsVoice]

Well, if they only have divine magic, you certainly CAN include amgical items. Even cultures who only craft very little, and certainly nothing involving metal or such things, have countless charms, trinkets and totems. Of coruse, magical swords are out of the question, but necklaces or rings could conceivably be there.

[Big Fau]

Gestalt the PCs with Incarnum classes to make things easier. Incarnum is great for your idea because it can be granted by the patron deity.

[NotScaryBats]

You could have a rare monster they kill have skin / fur that could be harvested to turn into sa suit ofArmor at a later date either by the villagers or back in civilization

A Gem Dragon wants to trade some baubles from her horde for the gemstones and gold that she values higher

The villagers know of a secret magical brook that, when a personal ritual of meditation and a portion of energy is expended, grants special properties to the item submerged in its waters.

[Darrin]

There's an adventure on the WotC website called "Vessel of Stars (www.wizards.com/dnd/article1.asp?x=dnd/oa/oa20001101a,3)" that gives the PCs some SLAs as a "reward" for saving a Stellar Deva. I forget the particulars, though, if they were temporary or limited-use.

[only1doug]

Vow of Poverty benefits without needing the vow and / or item familiar style improvements.

[kitcik]

Madcap NPC artificer shows up at night like the elves in Pinocchio, takes gold and leaves magic items.

[Palanan]

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions so far, definitely some good ideas.


Originally Posted by Darrin
There's an adventure on the WotC website called "Vessel of Stars" that gives the PCs some SLAs as a "reward" for saving a Stellar Deva.

I've actually looked at that one a couple of times, I'll have to check out the SLAs.


Originally Posted by Flickerdart
There could also be places of power hidden in the wilderness that can be tapped to produce a long-lasting magical boon.

Very helpful comments in general, and this line in particular really meshes with what I was thinking.

The question would be, what kinds of boon? What effects would be appropriate, and how to manage them? The idea is great, I'm just not sure how to handle the mechanics.
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[Psyren]

Gestalt the PCs with Incarnum classes to make things easier. Incarnum is great for your idea because it can be granted by the patron deity.

This was going to be my suggestion - have various "spirits" bind themselves to the PCs' body slots. Mechanically these would be identical to soulmelds, probably with the intelligent item rules thrown in to add a little whimsy/chaos. In addition to the standard soulmelds, there should be plenty of homebrew ones to choose from as well.

[alchemyprime]

Do something like giving the PCs something akin to an Eternal Wand, but as a SLA? Like "I would give them 800 some odd gold worth of stuff" instead give them a 3/day 1st level SLA. Like "Now the Fighter can cast ENlarge Person on himself 3/day" and while it's not a treasure, now the fighter is all like "Dude... that's pretty spiffy."

Alternatively, I think a magic spring gives perma abilities, while a magic plant gives one use of it. "Oh, we killed this verdant dire tiger, his heart, if you eat it, acts as a potion of Cat's Grace" or something similar.

Also? Dragonpacts. Use them as a baseline for something they get from like praying at some magic altar or shrine or smoking with the chief.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Flickerdart
Actually, progressing existing magic items is a good idea.

That could be one approach...but oddly enough, the party isn't that flush with magic items right now. I may need to sprinkle in a few starter items before they reach the wilderness.


Originally Posted by Darrin
There's an adventure on the WotC website called "Vessel of Stars" that gives the PCs some SLAs as a "reward" for saving a Stellar Deva.

Looking through this again, it seems the stellar deva can "brand" another person with a unique mark, sort of a multi-use magic tattoo, that allows the use of several sorcerer spells. It only grants a handful of uses, after which the mark fades away.

This is definitely an idea to consider, but it still lacks the permanency (so to speak) of a regular magic item, like a ring of protection, Ehlonna's quiver, etc. I could always give them several of these, but I still feel like there's some balancing to be done.

[Twilightwyrm]

You could confer upon them these temporary benefits, or indeed grant little to no benefits at all to emphasize the scarcity of these things, and then make up for their temporary lag behind the WBL by having a larger prize than normal at the end (that is to say, one that would put them back on WBL track).
Alternatively, they could gain large amounts of wealth, but need to be creative in its use regarding non-magical items (See: Dark Sun campaign setting, where magic items, in general, are much more rare and difficult to acquire across the entire world)

[Twilightwyrm]

You could confer upon them these temporary benefits, or indeed grant little to no benefits at all to emphasize the scarcity of these things, and then make up for their temporary lag behind the WBL by having a larger prize than normal at the end (that is to say, one that would put them back on WBL track).
Alternatively, they could gain large amounts of wealth, but need to be creative in its use regarding non-magical items (See: Dark Sun campaign setting, where magic items, in general, are much more rare and difficult to acquire across the entire world)

[Belril Duskwalk]

The question would be, what kinds of boon? What effects would be appropriate, and how to manage them? The idea is great, I'm just not sure how to handle the mechanics.

Here's an idea for making evolving magic weapons in an interesting fashion. I should point out in advance that this is in large part built off of the Pathfinder version of the Paladin class, namely their ability to gain a bound weapon instead of a bonded mount.

Basically, you would grant them some kind of nature spirit that hangs around the character. When the character goes into battle, he can call upon the power of the spirit to imbue his existing weapon with greater power. At level five it is a simple +1 bonus. For every three levels higher their character is, it adds another +1. The pluses don't need to just be pluses though, the spirit can trade off pluses for special properties, perhaps making the weapon Keen, Flaming or Defending or any number of other appropriate properties. In the source material these bonuses can be swapped out every time you call upon the spirit. If that seems too much you could of course restrict it to every time they level up, or every time they visit whatever shrine/spirit place that they acquired the spirit. This would effectively allow the players custom magic weapons, without breaking the image of their location having very little in the way of magic items.

[ericgrau]

I have something in my sig for low magic items and then you could refluff the source of the power a bit if you want.

I'm confused why there wouldn't be some kind of tribal magic. Not everyone needs to be a crafter. Magic items are already rare in the developed world. At least the greatest among them might have some, especially if they need to defend themselves against the forest dangers.

But ok I'll assume all the tribes are underdeveloped and all the encounters are against magical beasts. Ok the local god could bless the PCs with long lasting magical effects with caster level "lol no you aren't dispelling this". When the PCs leave the god rewards them with something valuable such as gems. The PCs are more or less on the god's side so the blessings are not revoked even when they piss her off a little, though she might take some counter action. This gives you a chance to select bonuses for the PCs and force them to work with what they've got. Then when they leave they have the freedom to buy whatever they want. Be sure to select both interesting powers and boring numerical bonuses to every stat. Glance at expected treasure to guess how much to give them. The heavy melee should get 0.75 to 1 AC per level and a little weapon damage. Casters might get extra magical powers. All should get saves and ability scores.

[Randomguy]

Keep track of WBL using some other way: for example, calculate the treasure that an encounter would have given, and give the equivalent in points.

Players would then be able to sacrifice points/gold to gain "blessings" that would work like build in magic items. These blessings would be slotless, so they'd cost twice as much as the item would. So if a player wants anklets of translocation, they could sacrifice 2800 gp, or 2800 points, to get the same ability that the anklets grant.

[Psyren]

There are rules (and even treasure values) for magical locations in DMG2 as well. You could have the players find one in the wilderness, or even have the tribal village itself secretly be one. Note also that if a magical location's benefits are currently being used by another person or group, slaying them causes the location to instantly recharge - so you can have the PCs kill an evil group, declare that they have no loot, and as soon as they head back to town they get supercharged with the village's magic.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Belril Duskwalk
Here's an idea...in large part built off of the Pathfinder version of the Paladin class, namely their ability to gain a bound weapon instead of a bonded mount.

This is an excellent option, thanks for detailing that. I've never looked at the Pathfinder paladin before, but the bound-weapon concept is great, and almost perfect for what I had in mind.


Originally Posted by Psyren
There are rules (and even treasure values) for magical locations in DMG2 as well.

I rarely look in DMG2, so hadn't even realized that was in there. Thanks for the mention, these are definitely worthwhile.

Also, the suggestions about trading gp for point-based magic benefits are interesting, but I could see that approach taking a lot of effort and paperwork to keep track of.

So, a couple of follow-up questions:


1. I don't have Tome of Magic, so can't look up the Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis. Is there another example from the DMG or MIC that would serve as a substitute?

2. I also like the limited-use SLAs from "Vessel of Stars," but I'm not sure how to fit this into the framework of WBL. Since the branding works like a multi-use magic tattoo, should I just price this like a tattoo, using the formula from the Tattoo Magic feat?

[ericgrau]

2. Generally the use of a spell per use per day is worth 400 * spell level * caster level. Generally you go with minimum caster level. However this tends to be affordable for low level abilities and expensive for spells near the PC's level. A 5th level spell is really good but it's also 18,000 gp. A 2nd level spell is 2,400 gp. Each is at 1/day.

[EpsilRon]

I like to give random "Tourism Bonuses" ocasionally. Not really anything as powerfil as item equivalents but it may be something.

For example,

You've eaten the legendary Derp pig of Somestupidname Island, you feel a lot more... adequate. Roll 1d3 and add results to max hitpoints.

You've listened to that ****ty bard so long your ears are bleeding. Permanently increase sonic resistance by one, temporary penalty to listen for the next two hours. Somebody shove a sock in his mouth!

... and so on.:smallredface: