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View Full Version : [DnD 3.5] Debuffer without spells?



theonesin
2012-10-01, 05:31 PM
The DM of a 4e campaign I'm in is considering switching the game to 3.5/PF, and wants us to more or less remake our characters in the new system. I made an Essentials Mage(focused on Enchantment), and while I know fully well how to make this in 3.5(Wizard), I don't want to do that as I don't care that much for Vancian casting.

Are there any good options for a debuffer without using a class that relies on spell slots(other than psionics)?

LTwerewolf
2012-10-01, 05:36 PM
You can go with a character based on a bard (core)/marshall(mini handbook)/intimidator (not a class, but use of a specific skill and feats that are based off of it)/war chanter (complete warrior). You can also throw in a level of a martial adept (tome of battle) and get maneuvers that have debuffs on them.

Piggy Knowles
2012-10-01, 05:50 PM
(Note: I know next to nothing about PF, so these responses will be geared toward 3.5.)

There are a lot of good ways to debuff without a caster...

1. Fear. As mentioned, fear is a powerful debuff that is easy to add on to a character. Just ranks in Intimidate + the Imperious Command feat will do the trick, but there's a lot more you can do, too. I believe there's a fear handbook floating around one of these forums.

2. Poison. Poison use can come from various classes or from a feat (Master of Poisons). Poison sources are a little more complicated for a non-caster, but if nothing else, Handle Animal works.

3. Other forms of ability damage. Crippling Strike (class ability for the rogue and various PrCs), the Maiming Strike and Disemboweling Strike feats, etc.

4. Melee feats that apply status conditions. Brutal Strike, Staggering Strike, etc.

5. Tanglefoot bags, nets and lassos all give the entangled condition, which is a pretty decent debuff all on its own.

This isn't an exhaustive list by any means, but hopefully it can give you some jumping off points...

eggs
2012-10-01, 06:05 PM
Binder, Warlock and Dragonfire Adept have varying degrees of debuffing to them.

Binder is from Tome of Magic; it has a bunch of effectively per-encounter abilities that do various things which can be re-selected on a daily basis. Some of those are blasts, some debuffs, etc. Until level 8, they pretty much have to fill a fighter/caster kind of a role, but after level 8, they often have enough per-encounter tricks to last whole fights.

Warlock is in Complete Arcane. It gets a bunch of at-will abilities that are chosen permanently. Some of its effects are spell-like debuffs (dispels, charms and so forth), some of them are rider effects that it can put on its blasts to do things like sicken or confuse its targets. It's also very good at making and using magic items to replicate abilities that it doesn't have on its own.

Dragonfire Adept is from Dragon Magic. It is similar to the Warlock, but without the magic item abilities, and with a greater focus on blasting with rider effects.

Other than that, there are some melee classes like Complete Warrior's Hexblade or Blackguard that are built around the idea of being a melee character who debuffs its enemies just by fighting them (but these tend to be a bit lackluster without specific work).

Slipperychicken
2012-10-01, 06:07 PM
Tripping can be considered debuffing/action-denial.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2012-10-01, 06:18 PM
The Fear Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3809.0), much of that can be accomplished via mundane means.

Get a breath attack, the easiest ways are Dragonfire Adept and Dragonborn (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20060105b), and take the feat Entangling Exhalation from Races of the Dragon. You can keep an entire encounter debuffed with that fairly easily.

Combat Reflexes + Improved Trip is pretty good, especially when opponents are slowly running for their lives.

Eldariel
2012-10-01, 08:01 PM
Tome of Battle includes a bunch of martial maneuvers with a bunch of debuff effects. Though it's fairly far from an Enchanter of course.

Amphetryon
2012-10-01, 08:17 PM
Jungle Halfling Shadow Hand-focused Swordsage into Black Dog (from Dragonmarked) does a pretty decent job as a mundane debuffer. Jungle Halfling gets you Poison Use for free, Black Dog empowers it, and the Shadow Hand techniques are debuffers that aren't equipment dependent.

Dusk Eclipse
2012-10-01, 08:27 PM
Any form of sneak attack qualifies you for Ambush feats which can apply some nasty debuffs, such as Staggered, Sickened, shaken... at the same time (you would need at least 4 Sneak attack die to apply them at the same time though). Combine this with Amphetryon suggestion and Venomous strike (applies +2 to a poison DC when sneak attacking with a poisoned weapon) and you effectively increase the the poisons DC by +4 at the least in addition to staggering your opponent. As far as mundane debuffing this is pretty good.