What would an adventuring Warblade buy?

[Krazzman]

Hello again Playground.

I come again to you... and again regarding the same Character: My Warblade.

So far we protected a village from Koboldian attacks and saved a child and then together with another child we were led thorugh a secret tunnel into a castle and have defendet that. We were granted quite a "mass" of gold and because of that... I think I should plan my further investment but not without using the 15 Int my Character has.

To him:
Male Human Untherian Warblade 2/Fighter 1
Str:18 Dex:14 Con:15 Int:15 Wis:14 Cha:11 (that's why I like rolled stats ;D)
38 HP
Patron Deity: Kossuth
Feats:
H: Power Attack 1: EWP: Spiked Chain 3: Combat Expertise F: Improved Trip
Maneuver:
Saphire Nightmare Blade, Steel Wind, Moment of Perfect Thought (? Willsave mitigated through concentration check) and Douse the Flames (I think)
Stance:
Punishing Stance (I rarely use this)
Equipment:
MW Greatsword, MW Spiked Chain, MW Composite4 Longbow, Scimitar (rusty), Steel Shield (rusty), MW Breastplate, Armor Crystal of resting (makes your armor comfy enough to sleep in), Gold Mask (i think ~150 gold)

The Party consists of a Femal Human Druid going to be Stormcaster (PrC from Stormwrack) with a Falcon Animal Companion, an male Favoured Soul of Istishia, an female Fey-flavoured Warlock/Bard and me.

We've been granted a quite large sum of money + the loot we already have. I plan with roundabout 3000 gp. But don't have a clue how to spend them wisely/IC.

One thought that would at least bring a little bit would be a Weaponcrystal of Elemental Damage (the 1 Firedmg one) or the Phoenix one (1 fire dmg 1 round later) as it would let my Spiked chain look more fiery. But jeah that might look a bit metagamey even when our Bard told us that the Regeneration Ability of the Trolls would be weak against fire...

Another option could be a Bag of Holding or a Handy Haversack. Or some form of Boots/bracers? Or is there a set that has a Kossuth-follower flavour? Or should I better look for some convenience items?

When you read this you practically see my problem I suffer under the effects of Analysis-Paralysis.

TL;DR: Due to Analysis-Paralysis I'm stuck with at least 2000 gp to buy gear for adventuring to a Temple of The way of the Sword and would like to afford good items/kossuth-flavoured items.

Sources Available:
Faerun Contend, Core, Completes, ToB, MiC, Spell Compendium.

I hope you can help me again with this.

[BowStreetRunner]

3000 gp could buy a novice-level Crown of the White Ravens, Iron Heart Vest, or Ring of the Diamon Mind (ToB p149-150) granting the use of a maneuver from the relevant discipline.

The only weapon crystal I have ever used on a Spiked Chain is the Lesser Crystal of Return for 1000 gp (SC 65). The crystal not only allows you to draw the weapon as a free action (effectively granting Quick Draw with that weapon) but also allows you to call the weapon to your hand from up to 30 ft away as a move action - something I have had to do from time to time when I chose to invoke the rule for spiked chains that states "If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the chain to avoid being tripped." This way I just have to stay within 30 ft of where I dropped the chain to make sure I can get it back easily.

[legomaster00156]

Buy hundreds of swords.

[navar100]

Improve your armor so you'll want to be in Punishing Stance more often.

[Slipperychicken]

Every item under the Goods and Services section of the SRD, plus any cheap non-magic items outside of it, and stick them in a Haversack. As well as a short list of weird ways you could combine items to overcome obstacles.

A dose of Liquid Light (CS? CA?) is worth it, being the same effect as an Everburning Torch for 1/5 the price, and not vulnerable to dispels.

[gorfnab]

When I'm in a campaign and have some spare GP to spend I usually glance through these handbooks to see if anything fits.
Shax's Indispensable Haversack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148101)
List of Neccessary Magic Items (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187851)
Complete MacGyver (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=11066.0)

[Keld Denar]

Anklets of Translocation are a great low-money item that are supremely useful throughout the rest of your adventuring career. 1400g for 2/day 10' swift action teleports.

[Krazzman]

Ok, we sort of sorted it out.

I upgraded my Spiked Chain to a Spiked Chain + 1. Additionally I purchased the Weapon Crystal: Lesser Crystal of Return. Granting me Quickdraw and a Recall for my spiked chain/Other weapon.
With the 2500 gp left I bought a Handy Haversack and a few adventuring gearstuff and still have about 500 GP left. We then ventured forth and were nearly beaten by a Troll... as our Druid was knocked out in the first round we had to spend 1 acid flask to finally kill it.

Additionally we all rooted together for a Wand of Lesser Vigor.

@legomaster:
Why would a sane (in the sense of Adventurers) Person do this?

@navar
yes I thought about first getting a fullplate or something like that but... not really the normal variant would've dragged me down in the next part of the adventure (pretty climbing heavy). And a Mithral variant would've been to expensive. Minor AC-ups would be too expensive.

@Keld
THe anklets are marked for next.

@gorfnab
I'm gonna re-check those threads but for most of the stuff I missed hte gold anyway.

Thanks so far.

[Courier6]

If you have climbing ahead, try getting silk rope(also usable to hogtie) for 10gp/50 feet, a rope climber(+5 circumstance bonus on rope climbing)for 15gp, a masterwork climbers tool(+2 competence bonus) for 50gp. If you want to wear full plate, try using suregrip(+1 20gp) and Spider kit(may be masterwork tool?+2 overall this can give you a +10 modifier for 85gp(much cheaper than a magic item)

Another favorite(having nothing to do with climbing) are eggshell dust grenades(blind with no save)

[Firechanter]

Tip for the near future: with the next 1500GP you get, and after the "heavys climbing" part, I'd switch my armour to MW Full Plate, since you have the Proficiency for that anyway.
Then keep saving up (at least half) your money until you can to switch to a Mithral Breastplate with enough Enhancement Bonus and some Dex Gear to make it worthwhile.

I say that as having played a pure Warblade, which doesn't have Heavy Armour Prof, and boy did the low levels _suck_ in the AC department. I would have loved to wear a Full Plate then but couldn't spare the feat slot and didn't want to multiclass.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Improve your armor so you'll want to be in Punishing Stance more often.

Or just don't wear any armor so you'll want to use Punishing Stance more.

[Krazzman]

Or just don't wear any armor so you'll want to use Punishing Stance more.

Along the lines of: "he won't miss me anyway so I can use the -2 freely"?

Also I'm not that sure if ~6000 Gold are a good investment for +5 AC, Max Dex +4(?), ACP 1 and 30ft movement. I think a +1 Chainshirt for 1250 Gold would be giving the same advantage... although not being that expensive.

Price Ranting:
The main problem I have is: Mithral is expensive.
Comparing the +1 Chainshirt with a standard Fullplate and a breastplate brings:
Chainshirt, Fullplate, Breastplate
AC: 4+1 against 8 against 5
Movement: 30ft against 20 ft.
Penality: 0 against 6(?) against 3
Max Dex: +4 against +2 against 3+.
Price: 1250 against 1650 against ~500 (not sure, AFB).
Mithral would ramp the price for the latter two up by 6k and 10k for being one category lighter (in terms of can I wear that?) and reducing ACP and improving max dex. Afaik only the Breastplate would get 30ft out of it.

The moment I can spend 11k or 7k for an Armor... I could invest that in Stun/Daze counter (3.5k) and Armor Enchant of Blurring/Displacement or Displacement Shirt or or or.

[Firechanter]

Well, that is a matter of long-term planning, and how your DM deals out treasure: so that WBL represents your "lifetime earnings", or your current "net worth"? If it's the latter, you can swap gear as often as you like. If it's the former, it's best to upgrade one piece of gear that you will use throughout your career.

Also a matter of how much you are willing to invest in Dex. After all, the armour has to match your Dexterity for best efficiency.

Your character has natural Dex 14, right?
Look at the maximum AC achievable by just Armour and Dex gear, ignoring Enhancement and all other AC bonuses because they are the same for everyone:
Full Plate: 10+8+1 = 19 (1500GP)
Breastplate: 10+5+3 = 18 (4000GP for the +2 Dex item)
Chain Shirt: 10+4+4 = 18 (16000GP for the +4 Dex item)
Mithral Full Plate: 10+8+3 = 21 (10500+4000(Dex) = 14500GP)
Mithral Breastplate: 10+5+5=20 (4000+36000 = 40000GP)
(Mithral Chainshirt would require a Manual to max out)

OTOH, keep in mind your speed. Anyone can get a +10ft Enhancement bonus, for instance by Boots that cost about 3000GP. Anything beyond that requires a higher investment, multiclassing etc.
So as you see, the Mithral Full Plate is effectively cheaper and offers much better protection than a Chain Shirt.

So in the short term, I'd go for a regular MW Full Plate and Boots of Striding (the "Springing" part is unecessary and just costs extra), total cost 4650GP, much cheaper than a Chain Shirt +X and/or Dex Item.

Mid-term, you can swap the Full Plate for a Mithral armour of your choice, and from then on you just keep upgrading that and your Dex item until they are maxed out. The Boots will remain useful and additional properties can be added to them. (Note how the boots do not stack with that speed-improving Stance because both offer Enhancement bonus).

[Krazzman]

Well, that is a matter of long-term planning, and how your DM deals out treasure: so that WBL represents your "lifetime earnings", or your current "net worth"? If it's the latter, you can swap gear as often as you like. If it's the former, it's best to upgrade one piece of gear that you will use throughout your career.

Upgrading it is then.



Also a matter of how much you are willing to invest in Dex. After all, the armour has to match your Dexterity for best efficiency.

Your character has natural Dex 14, right?
*armor stuff*

Yes 14. With Mithral Full Plate I can raise it to 16 (which complements my planning for taking Combat Reflexes).
10500 GP for Mithral Full Plate are still a lot gold I have to get first.



OTOH, keep in mind your speed. Anyone can get a +10ft Enhancement bonus, for instance by Boots that cost about 3000GP. Anything beyond that requires a higher investment, multiclassing etc.
So as you see, the Mithral Full Plate is effectively cheaper and offers much better protection than a Chain Shirt.

So in the short term, I'd go for a regular MW Full Plate and Boots of Striding (the "Springing" part is unecessary and just costs extra), total cost 4650GP, much cheaper than a Chain Shirt +X and/or Dex Item.


Actually my "shopping list" constist of a few things actually.
Travelers Cloak (1400), Ankhlet of Translocation (1400), Third Eye Clarity (3000), MW Full Plate (1650). And the Boots of Striding... but where can I find them? Or are they next to the Boots of Springing and Striding?


Mid-term, you can swap the Full Plate for a Mithral armour of your choice, and from then on you just keep upgrading that and your Dex item until they are maxed out. The Boots will remain useful and additional properties can be added to them. (Note how the boots do not stack with that speed-improving Stance because both offer Enhancement bonus).

I'm probably wouldn't take that stance anyway. But as soon as I have the Mithral Full Plate... which Enchants should I look forward to? Minor Blinking or going for greater Blinking directly?

[Ardantis]

You can never have enough rope

[Firechanter]

Upgrading it is then.
10500 GP for Mithral Full Plate are still a lot gold I have to get first.

Yeah, but it's not so bad actually when you look at WBL tables. However, are you sure you want to go the MFP route and not change to Mithral Breastplate later on? Well you have some time to think about that. =)
My Warblade was designed as Supercharger (i.e. less extreme than "Ubercharger" but still enough to knock anything out of their socks) so I really appreciated the extra movement speed.


Actually my "shopping list" constist of a few things actually.
Travelers Cloak (1400), Ankhlet of Translocation (1400), Third Eye Clarity (3000), MW Full Plate (1650). And the Boots of Striding... but where can I find them? Or are they next to the Boots of Springing and Striding?


The boots are reverse-engineered from the Boots of Striding and Springing, and I made a little mistake up there. The boots cost 5500. The +5 Skill property is worth 2500GP. But taking that away also removes the +50% surcharge for multiple properties, so pure +10ft is worth just 2000GP.

However, keep in mind that they occupy the same slot as the Anklet of Translocation. Creating a combined item that does both adds +700GP, for a total of 4100GP. Good deal if you ask me.

Talking about teleports, if you haven't planned out all your highlevel feats yet, I recommend looking at the Shadow Hand teleport maneuvers... they have no prerequisites, so you could for instance take Shadow Blink at 15th level and teleport 50ft as a Swift Action every other round.


I'm probably wouldn't take that stance anyway. But as soon as I have the Mithral Full Plate... which Enchants should I look forward to? Minor Blinking or going for greater Blinking directly?

First off, Armour plusses are the cheapest magical way to improve your AC.
Blueshine is a good cheap way to avoid having your precious armour corroded away by some ******** acid attack. Called is also very convenient. Apart from such cheapass properties, I'm not so keen on stacking properties on armour because it gets friggin expensive very quickly, but other people may have different opinions.

BTW, Celestial armour (can also be reverse-engineered from Celestial Chainmail) is even better than Mithral, comes with Fly property and is a bargain (though you probably won't be able to exploit the increased maxDex).

As for the Concealment, I recommend the Minor Cloak of Displacement; wonderful because it works continually. Blinking has the nasty side effect that it can make _your_ attacks go swoosh.

[Darrin]

Yes 14. With Mithral Full Plate I can raise it to 16 (which complements my planning for taking Combat Reflexes).
10500 GP for Mithral Full Plate are still a lot gold I have to get first.


Consider Darkleaf Fullplate instead (from A&EG or Eberron Campaign Sourcebook). Cheaper: 4500 GP. The Dex bonus only increases by +1, so it's not quite as good as mithral, but close. Increasing your Dex above 14 wouldn't help, since Max Dex would be only +2, but with the money you save, you could buy a Ring of Protection +1 or Amulet of Natural Armor +1 for 2000 GP.



Actually my "shopping list" constist of a few things actually.
Travelers Cloak (1400), Ankhlet of Translocation (1400), Third Eye Clarity (3000), MW Full Plate (1650). And the Boots of Striding... but where can I find them? Or are they next to the Boots of Springing and Striding?


Boots of Striding and Springing are in the DMG. 5500 GP, +10' land speed, and +5 competence bonus to Jump checks.



I'm probably wouldn't take that stance anyway. But as soon as I have the Mithral Full Plate... which Enchants should I look forward to? Minor Blinking or going for greater Blinking directly?

If you want a continuous all-day miss chance, then put armor spikes on your full plate and enchant the spikes with the Smoking property (+1 enhancement, Lords of Darkness).

Here's the enchantments I'd consider first, though:

Restful (+500 GP, Dungeonscape). Sleep in your armor.

Durable (+500 GP, Dungeonscape). Armor is immune to rust, acid, and green slime. Better and cheaper than Blueshine.

Easy Travel (+1500 GP, MIC). Carry a medium load as if it were a light load.

Anti-Impact (+2000 GP, Complete Warrior). Halve all crushing/constriction/falling damage.

Crystal of Alacrity (3500 GP, MIC p. 196). +5' morale bonus to land speed.

As far as enhancement bonuses go, I'd probably start with Death Ward (+1 enhancement), probably throw a little Fortification on there (+1/+3/+5 enhancement), and save up for Soufire (+4 enhancement) or Freedom (+5 enhancement).


Other items you might consider:

Bracers of Opportunity (2300 GP, MIC). Gain another AoO 2/day, and +2 attack bonus on all your AoOs.

Tunic of Steady Spellcasting (2500 GP, MIC). +5 competence bonus to *all* Concentration checks, not just for spellcasting.

Raptor's Mask (3500 GP, MIC). +5 *untyped* bonus on Spot checks, and immune to dazzle/blinding.

Glove of the Master Strategist (3600 GP, Ghostwalk). Does everything a glove of storing can do (but way cheaper), plus true strike 1/day.

Boots of Swift Passage (5000 GP, MIC). Move action to teleport up to 20', 5/day.

Bolt Shirt (5000 GP, MIC). Move action to teleport up to 60', 1/day.

[Krazzman]

Horray more responses :3

Ok, lets start with Firechanter:

I'm going the Lock down route.
As you could see in my Openingpost I have Improved Trip and I am planning on taking Combat Reflexes, Hold the Line, Stand Still and I don't know what else/next. Thinking about Iron Heart Aura (because we lack pretty much will saves in our group x.X)

To the reverse engineering... probably not possible... unless I can explain that to my DM. The Striding Boots of Translocation would be pretty awesome still...

About the Blinking part: I wouldn't want that I would've taken the +1 Armor enchanting for 3/day Blur and later the cloak...

Darrin:
A&EG and Eberron are sadly not available.

About the Smoking Spikes... I am playing witht he thought of using that trick...
About Dungeonscape I'm not sure if it is allowed but I already have the armor crystal to sleep in armor.

[Firechanter]

Ah right... as for your armour, Blurring is pretty good and cheap (about 3K), but I'd still be reluctant to invest in anything that costs plusses if it is made obsolete by another item later on. May not always be avoidable, though.

I vaguely remember that in one game we found "Cloaks of Gossamer" or what they were called, which were a nice combo of +2 Deflection AC and Ghostly Visage 1/day. However they are probably something the DM made up and nothing official. Was nice for mid-levels though.

Reverse-engineering specific magic items is simple: the DMG/SRD tells you how to calculate the cost for standard properties, spell effects etc. Whenever an item has a property that isn't covered by these rules, deduct all the price components of components that are covered, and see what remains.
Example Celestial Armour: price 22.400. Base price is 300GP for a MW Chainmail. It's a +3, which is a 9000GP component. It allows you to Fly 1/day. Fly is a 3rd level spell, and a separate item that does this would cost 5400GP, as secondary property however 8100GP.
The rest of the "celestial" property is that it counts as one step lighter and has 6 points higher Max Dex than a regular armour. The value of this is 22400-300-9000-8100=5000GP, at least for a Medium base armour. So the +2 extra maxDex compared to Mithral just costs a modest 1000GP. However, it would be fair to make Heavy armour more expensive.

Concerning your build:
I also once planned a lockdown build, but the theoretical results were so underwhelming I never bothered to try him out in actual play... this is not meant to deter you; I was probably just stirring in too many pots (i.e. the character was not focused enough).

If you want to go lockdown, I'd recommend the Knock-down feat, which kind of inverts the regular Trip procedure: instead of getting a free followup attack on a successful trip, you get a free trip attempt on each successful melee attack (that deals at least 10 damage, but this shouldn't be a problem).

The problem that I saw with tripping things was the rather poor success chance against those bogeys that you'd want to trip most badly, such as Large creatures. With some optimization, they can easily have a 10 points higher check modifier than what I was willing to optimize for, which reduced the chance to about 5%.

Besides, I think that Crusaders make more effective Lockdown fighters than Warbladers, thanks to stances like Iron Guard Glace or Thicket of Blades.
Eventually I came to the conclusion that Warblades are better on the offense, and so went the Shock Trooper/Charger route, which in combination with Tiger Claw maneuvers proved hideously effective. *hrhr*

[Krazzman]

Ah right... as for your armour, Blurring is pretty good and cheap (about 3K), but I'd still be reluctant to invest in anything that costs plusses if it is made obsolete by another item later on. May not always be avoidable, though.

Jeah that's pretty much my problem now atm.



Reverse-engineering specific magic items is simple: the DMG/SRD tells you how to calculate the cost for standard properties, spell effects etc. Whenever an item has a property that isn't covered by these rules, deduct all the price components of components that are covered, and see what remains.
Example Celestial Armour: price 22.400. Base price is 300GP for a MW Chainmail. It's a +3, which is a 9000GP component. It allows you to Fly 1/day. Fly is a 3rd level spell, and a separate item that does this would cost 5400GP, as secondary property however 8100GP.
The rest of the "celestial" property is that it counts as one step lighter and has 6 points higher Max Dex than a regular armour. The value of this is 22400-300-9000-8100=5000GP, at least for a Medium base armour. So the +2 extra maxDex compared to Mithral just costs a modest 1000GP. However, it would be fair to make Heavy armour more expensive.

I'm not sure if I got it but... going to ask the DM.



Concerning your build:
I also once planned a lockdown build, but the theoretical results were so underwhelming I never bothered to try him out in actual play... this is not meant to deter you; I was probably just stirring in too many pots (i.e. the character was not focused enough).

If you want to go lockdown, I'd recommend the Knock-down feat, which kind of inverts the regular Trip procedure: instead of getting a free followup attack on a successful trip, you get a free trip attempt on each successful melee attack (that deals at least 10 damage, but this shouldn't be a problem).

There is a bit of a Problem... I'm not sure wether it was because the damage was too low or we haven't had that book available but I think I can't take that feat.


The problem that I saw with tripping things was the rather poor success chance against those bogeys that you'd want to trip most badly, such as Large creatures. With some optimization, they can easily have a 10 points higher check modifier than what I was willing to optimize for, which reduced the chance to about 5%.

Besides, I think that Crusaders make more effective Lockdown fighters than Warbladers, thanks to stances like Iron Guard Glace or Thicket of Blades.
Eventually I came to the conclusion that Warblades are better on the offense, and so went the Shock Trooper/Charger route, which in combination with Tiger Claw maneuvers proved hideously effective. *hrhr*

I don't think I will run into that Problem. I'm not sure but I think he uses his monsters "out of the book". About the Crusader... well I wanted to try out a Warblade because we already had a crusader in the group before but I'm beginning to itching to want to play a Swordsage...
I'm still pretty much open to change in plans (in terms of feats) but so far the improved trip is quite badass as I managed to trip the boss in the last "story-arc".

[Firechanter]

Have you already decided what to work towards in terms of primary weapon?

Not taking into account wonky materials from obscure splatbooks, I find that the best weapon material in the long run is Cold Iron. It makes enchanting more expensive (annoying at low levels, but insignificant at higher ones), but has a couple of advantages. Like other special materials, there are a bunch of typical enemies whose DR is bypassed by it. However, other special materials like adamantine or alchemical silver can be emulated by relatively cheap items. Emulating Cold Iron is not as easy.
Also, a traditional selling point of adamantine has been the ability to break objects with it -- but as a Warblade, you have Mountain Hammer and don't need these crutches.

As for properties, "Aptitude" pays for itself, and "Discipline" keyed to one or two of your favourite schools offers wonderful bang for the buck. Basically, if you key it to the discipline of your preferred stance, you _always_ get +3 to attack, of which you might trade one point for 2 points of damage, so you have the effect of a +2 enhancement for the price of +1.
The fact that if anyone ever steals your weapon it will be nearly useless for them is just icing on the cake.

(If you went pure Warblade, as War-20 you could enjoy the benefits of up to four Discipline bonuses: 2 for stances, one for Boost and one for Strike.)

[Krazzman]

Have you already decided what to work towards in terms of primary weapon?

Yes Spiked Chain (+1 atm for the Weapon Crystal).



Not taking into account wonky materials from obscure splatbooks, I find that the best weapon material in the long run is Cold Iron. It makes enchanting more expensive (annoying at low levels, but insignificant at higher ones), but has a couple of advantages. Like other special materials, there are a bunch of typical enemies whose DR is bypassed by it. However, other special materials like adamantine or alchemical silver can be emulated by relatively cheap items. Emulating Cold Iron is not as easy.
Also, a traditional selling point of adamantine has been the ability to break objects with it -- but as a Warblade, you have Mountain Hammer and don't need these crutches.

Problem is... our Fey-flavoured Warlock/Bard would find this pretty offensive... sadly, maybe going for it anyway.


As for properties, "Aptitude" pays for itself, and "Discipline" keyed to one or two of your favourite schools offers wonderful bang for the buck. Basically, if you key it to the discipline of your preferred stance, you _always_ get +3 to attack, of which you might trade one point for 2 points of damage, so you have the effect of a +2 enhancement for the price of +1.
The fact that if anyone ever steals your weapon it will be nearly useless for them is just icing on the cake.

This seems quite nice... Aptitude was the weapon changing it's material, right?
Discipline is probably found in ToB itself... isn't it?


(If you went pure Warblade, as War-20 you could enjoy the benefits of up to four Discipline bonuses: 2 for stances, one for Boost and one for Strike.)
Probably not going to reach a level THAT high but I like my fighter dip for 2 feats.

[Firechanter]

This seems quite nice... Aptitude was the weapon changing it's material, right?
Discipline is probably found in ToB itself... isn't it?


The Material-changing thing is called Adaptive or something.
Both Aptitude and Discipline are found in the ToB, yes.