Unarmored Swordsman Build

[AwkwardTurtle]

I'm currently playing a swordsman whose class was homebrewed by the DM. I'm not very happy with it, so I'm looking for different options.

He's very skilled with a cutlass (wanted it to be a katana, but it's a European-like setting), is basically a skill monkey (super high dex), and doesn't wear armor. Because of backstory reasons, he refuses to kill with his sword, and instead deals all non-lethal damage (if this is sounding familiar because you've seen Ruroni Kenshin, sorry for not being more original :smalltongue:). I've been going through different options for a new build, and haven't found anything I'm thrilled with, even though anything's better than the build I have now. I've looked at ToB and like the idea of a swordsage, but the character I have doesn't seem like the magical type. I was also looking at warblade, but they rely pretty heavily on armor, it seems like. Duelist is a better option, but it's a fairly week PC.

So as of right now, I have monk 2/rogue 2/fighter 2/rogue 1/swash 3/duelest 1 then rogue and whatever else. Any other ideas?

Here's a link to the homebrew class, if you're interested. I wouldn't bother trying to peach it, though, the DM won't budge.

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B9kjUKKYSHmhOE05NGQ0Wk5OTEE

[Aegis013]

I'm currently playing a swordsman whose class was homebrewed by the DM. I'm not very happy with it, so I'm looking for different options.

He's very skilled with a cutlass (wanted it to be a katana, but it's a European-like setting), is basically a skill monkey (super high dex), and doesn't wear armor. Because of backstory reasons, he refuses to kill with his sword, and instead deals all non-lethal damage (if this is sounding familiar because you've seen Ruroni Kenshin, sorry for not being more original :smalltongue:). I've been going through different options for a new build, and haven't found anything I'm thrilled with, even though anything's better than the build I have now. I've looked at ToB and like the idea of a swordsage, but the character I have doesn't seem like the magical type. I was also looking at warblade, but they rely pretty heavily on armor, it seems like. Duelist is a better option, but it's a fairly week PC.

So as of right now, I have monk 2/rogue 2/fighter 2/rogue 1/swash 3/duelest 1 then rogue and whatever else. Any other ideas?

Here's a link to the homebrew class, if you're interested. I wouldn't bother trying to peach it, though, the DM won't budge.

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B9kjUKKYSHmhOE05NGQ0Wk5OTEE

A couple of ideas.

You could still play a swordsage, but avoid the magical schools. Alternatively, you could ask your DM if you could exchange Shadow Hand and Desert Wind (the most magical schools) for another school, possibly Iron Heart or White Raven, or both.

You could still play a Warblade, but instead of wearing armor, which is optional anyway, get some Wisdom and use a Monk's Belt from the DMG, or wear other non-armors that provide AC boosts.

[Psyren]

You could still play a swordsage, but avoid the magical schools.

This would be my suggestion. You don't have to go in for all the mystical stuff if you don't want to - focus on maneuvers from Setting Sun, Diamond Mind and Tiger Claw. You can follow the other suggestion to swap Desert Wind/Shadow Hand for Iron Heart/White Raven but that's not required.

[ericgrau]

It's almost a barbarian/monk/fighter tristalt. Some things are missing, but all the best bits are there. What exactly is underpowered about that?

The biggest weakness seems to be the AC. You might try THF + weapon finesse on a rapier. It's a one handed weapon so THF is allowed. Even if the DM doesn't let you switch the weapon focus you'll do better overall. ou should still have an ok strength for damage. Con should be high too like any character, of course.

See if the DM will at least let you switch the weapon focus. Otherwise blow a feat.

[KnightOfV]

It's been a while since I've seen Kenshin or played 3.5.... but from what I remember, Swordsage does fit that archetype best. Some of the class features and maneuvers are the closest things D&D has to that samurai faster-than-blinking feel. Some of the flashier stuff you can always just reflavor to look more mundane, like instead of fire going everywhere, a wave of intense, invisible ki burns enemies- that kind of thing. Kenshin himself had lots of sorta-magical abilities later on in the series, ki auras that created wind around him (against Shishio), striking/blocking with pressure from sword swings instead of the sword itself, and of course his crazy fast movement that let him strike multiple times instantly.

I think swordsage would be easier than all that multiclassing anyways. :smallbiggrin:

[Dr.Epic]

How do you feel about dervish? You'd have to use a scimitar though.

[Eldariel]

What stats are you working with? Either way, either Swordsage or Warblade + dip for Stat to Armorclass seem like the best ways to go. If you have high Intelligence, you could do something fairly impressive with Factotum 4/Warblade X -> (Factotum gets Int to AC for inspiration point and you can invest in having enough inspiration points to keep it up) and even could eventually pick up Factotum 8.

[Averis Vol]

The biggest weakness seems to be the AC. You might try THF + weapon finesse on a rapier. It's a one handed weapon so THF is allowed. Even if the DM doesn't let you switch the weapon focus you'll do better overall. Not at level 1, but as soon as you get your first +2 dex item it comes out ahead due to the triple dex benefit. You should still have an ok strength for damage. Con should be high too like any character, of course.

See if the DM will at least let you switch the weapon focus. Otherwise just blow a feat.

my problem with this is that the rapier is just a bad choice for this. if you two hand it you don't get 1/1-2 your strength because of the way the rapier works, so your damage would be gimped anyways;you could just one hand it and pick up a shield at that point.

I would suggest the elven courtblade. It has the same damage as a bastard sword, its curved like a katana, and better yet you can weapon finesse it.
I mean, if your already getting the feats for free, why not try to make the best of it?

But I'll also jump on the bandwagon of screw the magicish schools and play a Swordsage or a Warblade if you want to; there are tons of ways to boost your armor if it really is that big of a problem for you. Theres an armor paint in A&E that gives +4 armor bonus and no ACP or max dex. Equally there are bracers of armor if you dont like the idea of charging into battle with warpaint on.

[ericgrau]

D'oh stupid exceptions. Most 1 handed weapons let you so I assumed. The courtblade seems better anyway. That or a spiked chain, which is also finessable.

[mistformsquirrl]

I'm going to agree with others who say "Swordsage, skip the magical schools".

Diamond Mind I particularly love.

[Averis Vol]

D'oh stupid exceptions. Most 1 handed weapons let you so I assumed. The courtblade seems better anyway. That or a spiked chain, which is also finessable.

I tried pulling it over on my dm once when my 6'8" human barbarian got plane hopped into the body of an anorexic halfling rogue. for once he was right, so I stole the fighters greatsword >:D

[gorfnab]

Here is a fencer build that I came up with awhile ago. It's focused on fighting defensively for a huge bonus to AC. It's highly mobile, has decent HP, and almost full BAB.

Human or Strongheart Halfling
1. Cobra Strike (UA) Deceptive Strike (PHBII) Monk - Camendine Monk, Combat Expertise, B: Dodge
2. Cobra Strike (UA) Monk - B: Mobility
3. Swashbuckler - Deadly Defense, B: Weapon Finesse
4. Swashbuckler
5. Swashbuckler
6. Thief Acrobat - Combat Reflexes
7. Thief Acrobat
8. Thief Acrobat
9. Thief Acrobat - Einhander
10. Thief Acrobat
11. Warblade
12. Warblade or Duelist - Ironheart Aura
13. Duelist
14. Duelist
15. Duelist - Robilar's Gambit
16. Duelist
17. Duelist
18. Duelist - Stormgaurd Warrior
19. Duelist
20. Duelist

Levels 10 through 12 can be rearranged depending on your needs. The current setup gives you Improved Evasion and Uncanny Dodge at these levels. However if you don't need Improved Evasion take one less level of Thief Acrobat and move the first level of Warblade to level 10. If you don't need Uncanny Dodge don't take the 2nd level of Warblade and instead go into Duelist a level early. If you don't need either abilities take Warblade at level 10 and enter Duelist at level 11.

If flaws are available pick up EWP: Broadblade Shortsword (pre-errata version if possible) or Versatile Unarmed Strike and Snap Kick (may need to rearrange later feats). If traits are available pick up Cautious.

The Monk and Swashbuckler levels (levels 1 through 5) can be switched around to taste. I personally like Swash 1/ Monk 2/ Swash 2

[Wise Green Bean]

Daring outlaw swashbuckler(that's rogue 3 swashbuckler 17 with the daring outlaw feat) is actually very similar. You get a butt load of a skill points, as you start as a rogue and move on to a class with decent skill points and makes good use of intelligence. As I recall, no or light armor. There's a feat in Book of Exalted Deeds that lets you deal nonlethal damage with lethal weapons. Put it all together, you've got low to no armor, high INT and DEX, good HP(D10s for most of the build), full sneak attack, enough skill points for some narrow skill monkeying, and trap finding to boot. It's not bad, pretty similar to what you're thinking. I'm not sure if the BoED feat requires you to actually be exalted. Some of them do, some of them don't.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Swordsage 2/ Warblade 18 for the final build would probably be what you're looking for, I'd make it go Swordsage 1/ Warblade 2/ Swordsage 1/ Warblade 16. Get a lot of Diamond Mind, Stone Dragon, and Tiger Claw from Swordsage so you can qualify for higher level maneuvers/stances in those disciplines while spending most of your early Warblade maneuvers on Iron Heart and White Raven.

I'd get Moment of Perfect Mind, both Tiger Claw maneuvers, either of the Stone Dragons, Shadow Blade Technique, and Counter Charge, along with either of the Shadow Hand stances you want at Swordsage 1.

At Warblade 1 get Steel Wind, Leading the Attack, and probably Sapphire Nightmare Blade, and Bolstering Voice, then whatever 1st level maneuver you want at Warblade 2.

At Swordsage 2 take Mountain Hammer, because at any level it's good to be able to impressively smash something with a lot of hardness in one hit. You're stuck with what Swordsage maneuvers you know barring retraining or Psychic Reformation, but you've got tons of utility there.

At Warblade 3 get either Emerald Razor or Battle Leader's Charge, both are superb choices.

At Warblade 4 you can swap out one of your 1st level Warblade maneuvers for a 3rd level one, and keep in mind you don't need to meet a maneuver's prerequisites after you've already learned it, and a stance counts as a maneuver for qualifying for them. That's why you picked Bolstering Voice, so you can trade out Leading the Attack for Iron Heart Surge and still get more White Raven maneuvers later (though it wouldn't matter if you've got Battle Leader's Charge).

At Warblade 5 get White Raven Tactics if you want to do the self-targeting shenanigans to take two turns each round, otherwise get whichever of Emerald Razor or Battle Leader's Charge that you didn't pick earlier.

At Warblade 6, 8, and 10 you should swap out all of your remaining 1st level Warblade maneuvers for higher level ones.