alternative tank style?

[killianh]

My group has a monk (going psy war later) as secondary melee, and a Goliath Barbarian (going frenzy later) as a primary. A new player wants to play an orc that has escaped slavery and wants to be a stereotypically orc warrior.

How can I set him up to be as different from the others?

[HunterOfJello]

Dungeoncrasher Fighter is a good option. Power Attack + Improved Bullrush to go along with it.

He could also go with a tripper build and run around with a spiked chain.

[BowStreetRunner]

Three words: Tome of Battle

Have him take a look at the Warblade class and maybe one of the prestige classes such as Bloodclaw Master or Bloodstorm Blade.

Of course, if you seriously want him to Tank, then Crusader is the class for that. It's a little less of a fit with the stereotypical orc warrior, but there's no real reason you couldn't make it work.

[HunterOfJello]

Three words: Tome of Battle

Have him take a look at the Warblade class and maybe one of the prestige classes such as Bloodclaw Master or Bloodstorm Blade.

Of course, if you seriously want him to Tank, then Crusader is the class for that. It's a little less of a fit with the stereotypical orc warrior, but there's no real reason you couldn't make it work.

Tome of Battle would probably be a bad idea in this situation. He could go that route, but if he does then he's likely going to constantly one-up the monk and barbarian in the party. The barbarian could keep up in damage, but that would be the only aspect he keeps up with. The Monk could do okay with Psychic Warrior, but that's really a build that is supposed to dip monk not go into it with more than 2 monk levels. ToB characters quickly and easily cause contention in parties that have non-optimized non-ToB melee PCs in them. I love the ToB, but there are times where it isn't great to use. It's up to you to decide if the other PCs are going to be optimized enough to keep up properly or not. Otherwise you're just inserting a problem that will continue to grow in the future.

Person Man's Guide to Melee Combos (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127026) would be a good place to start the character and continue his progression from. It's full of good traditional combat builds.

[Wise Green Bean]

I'd suggest a chain tripper too. Cuz he was a slave, and the chains kept him down, but now he's a fighter, and he uses the chains to keep others down. Which is deeply amusing to me.

Failing that, a knight makes a pretty decent tank. More literally than most other 'tanks', as they literally make people hit them. Takes a bit of optimization though, as knights are a bit underpowered.

[Zombulian]

I'd suggest a chain tripper too. Cuz he was a slave, and the chains kept him down, but now he's a fighter, and he uses the chains to keep others down. Which is deeply amusing to me.

Failing that, a knight makes a pretty decent tank. More literally than most other 'tanks', as they literally make people hit them. Takes a bit of optimization though, as knights are a bit underpowered.

+1 to Knight. It would be interesting for one thing, to roleplay an Orc that follows his blood customs, but through honor and glory in battle. Also great for CC and Tripping. Cometary Collision is a cool feat because it lets you ready an action to intercept someone's charge and beat em up. Get Improved Trip and a Spiked Chain, they can't charge anywhere, you trip whenever they try, and with the 4th lvl ability Knights get, people can't even 5ft step away from you.

[killianh]

I'll go over it with him and see what he thinks about an orc knight chain tripper. He wants to play a bit of an idiot though so what would be a good way for him to RP an idiot orc knight fresh out of slavery?

[Zombulian]

I'll go over it with him and see what he thinks about an orc knight chain tripper. He wants to play a bit of an idiot though so what would be a good way for him to RP an idiot orc knight fresh out of slavery?

Did he escape slavery or was he rescued? He could be sort of like Minmax from "Goblins", a truly good-hearted hero who does his best to help his friends out, but it's tough when he has to either get over his own ego, or the fact that all he does is hit things.

[Zombulian]

Another way to go about it is him going around gettig in over his head. Challenging superior opponents to duels when they dispute his honor, laughing as the rogue sneaks with his daggers and SA damage. WHERE IS THE HOHNOOOURRR in that?

Also there could be a whole backstory for his spiked chain. Being a slave and all, the chan he uses in battle is a symbol of his newfound freedom.

[killianh]

Escaped as far as I know. What was holding him and the like hasn't been worked out just yet. But one thing of note is that he was born into said slavery so I'm thinking that him being like a knight comes from viewing his slave masters as everything wrong in the world and trying to act the exact opposite if for nothing else than to spite them.

Thank you all for your suggestions so far

[Wise Green Bean]

If he has some buddies/family back in his homelands, the crusading knight fits very well. 'I'm gonna get real strong and then I'm gonna open a can of whoopass on those jerks and free everyone I left behind'.

[Zombulian]

Escaped as far as I know. What was holding him and the like hasn't been worked out just yet. But one thing of note is that he was born into said slavery so I'm thinking that him being like a knight comes from viewing his slave masters as everything wrong in the world and trying to act the exact opposite if for nothing else than to spite them.

Thank you all for your suggestions so far


If he has some buddies/family back in his homelands, the crusading knight fits very well. 'I'm gonna get real strong and then I'm gonna open a can of whoopass on those jerks and free everyone I left behind'.

Yes. Knight with cause is best Knight.
If he doesn't want to go strait Knight all the way (it does have some dead levels in there), Hellreaver, Kensai, or even Crusader are good options. Hellreaver being a support tank guy who hates all evil and goes into a semi rage when confronted with it (*but* doesn't have to be non-lawful.) kensai is a man with a cause, who uses his extra special chosen weapon to great ends. And crusader because more tanky support with a cause.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

There's already a Goliath, so if a level adjustment is in order, maybe give him the Mineral Warrior (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e) template. It's bestowed by a spell that also happens to enslave the recipient to the caster for a year plus one day.

Knight is a terrible class for anything but MMO-style tanking and completely shattering suspension of disbelief. Have him go Fighter with the Dungeoncrasher ACF in Dungeonscape and the Zhentarim Soldier (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a) sub levels, along with free class features (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20061013a). It's especially good if you give him a Permanencied Enlarge Person (at caster level 20 with a Ring of Enduring Arcana for a dispel DC of 35) so he can get the feat Knock-Back from Races of Stone, which combines extremely well with Dungeoncrasher in the right circumstances. Knock-Down (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#knockDown) is also highly recommended. He should also get the Never Outnumbered skill trick from Complete Scoundrel and the feat Imperious Command from Drow of the Underdark if possible.

[Zombulian]

There's already a Goliath, so if a level adjustment is in order, maybe give him the Mineral Warrior (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e) template. It's bestowed by a spell that also happens to enslave the recipient to the caster for a year plus one day.

Knight is a terrible class for anything but MMO-style tanking and completely shattering suspension of disbelief. Have him go Fighter with the Dungeoncrasher ACF in Dungeonscape and the Zhentarim Soldier (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a) sub levels, along with free class features (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20061013a). It's especially good if you give him a Permanencied Enlarge Person (at caster level 20 with a Ring of Enduring Arcana for a dispel DC of 35) so he can get the feat Knock-Back from Races of Stone, which combines extremely well with Dungeoncrasher in the right circumstances. Knock-Down (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#knockDown) is also highly recommended. He should also get the Never Outnumbered skill trick from Complete Scoundrel and the feat Imperious Command from Drow of the Underdark if possible.

You shadap you shut you mouth!

[Wise Green Bean]

Don't think making yourself look like the biggest and most obvious threat/calling people out on their honor is much more 4th wall breaking than baring your teeth at people and having them poo themselves is. They're both fairly absurd as allegedly mundane abilities go. So don't go messing with the knight, I like him very much. Battlefield control simply does not have the feel that true tanking does.

[ben-zayb]

An Orc slave, you say? Would it be likely that he's been thrown in a gladiatorial match too, to keep his master and other people entertained?

If that's the case, then I suggest another alternative: Net and Trident fighting style (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-warrior--61/net-and-trident--2052/)

It needs four feats to be functional (3 prereqs and the namesake feat) but otherwise can be built to be as flexible the player wants it to be. Fighter and Ranger are good candidates for base class. As for the net, you may want Razor Net since it deals damage. Or a net made out of RiverineStormwrack so that it'll never break.

[Rubik]

Make his character a ghost with the Malevolence quality that escaped through (un)death. He can possess his foes and use their bodies as his (literal) meat-shield. Possessing his foe will use his foe's hp and stats, but his class levels. If his body dies, he can possess someone else.

[Psyren]

Tome of Battle would probably be a bad idea in this situation. He could go that route, but if he does then he's likely going to constantly one-up the monk and barbarian in the party.

Not if the monk goes Psywar as planned, or even just Psionic Fist - if that is the case, the new player will likely need ToB (or similar) to keep up.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Not if the monk goes Psywar as planned, or even just Psionic Fist - if that is the case, the new player will likely need ToB (or similar) to keep up.

Seconded. Also, martial adepts have trouble keeping up with the damage of frenzied berserker, not the other-way-'round. Generally, everything has trouble keeping up with the damage of a FB, and any player that's actually chosen that route has already decided that tactics aren't a thing worth worrying about over-much.

Knight is good too though. Be sure you and your player have the same expectations and understanding of the CoC though.