You're a Green Dragon, and... [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Duboris

2012-10-07, 07:27 PM

Alright. So.

You're a Green Dragon, an Adult one, namely. Cr 13.

Str 27, Dex 10, Con 21, Int 16, Wis 17, Cha 16
Base Atk +15; CMB +25; CMD 35 (39 vs. trip)
Feats Alertness, Cleave, Flyby Attack, Great Cleave, Improved Critical (bite, claws), Iron Will, Power Attack
Skills Fly +10, Knowledge (arcane) +21, Knowledge (nature) +21, Perception +25, Spellcraft +21, Stealth +10, Survival +21, Swim +34, Use Magic Device +21
Languages Common, Draconic, Elven, Sylvan
SQ trackless step, water breathing, woodland stride

You have everything here to open a case that is no bigger than 6 inches by 1 foot by 4 inches.

The box contains a dormant sphere of annihilation, which is no larger than a small oval rock, triggered to become an active as soon as the case is opened. Along with this, the sphere is laying a scroll of gate, which will also activate on the sphere as soon as the case is opened.

What means, and what methods would an Adult Green Dragon use to open this and keep said artifact in its dormant state?

The plot-scripted effect of opening the box normally involves the second affect, which is going to involve the sphere UNMAKING everything in a 360 foot diameter.

The Case is Made of Adamantium, lined with lead on double fronts, and has 3 Amazing Adamantium locks on it, which are all spring locks, meaning they're unaffected by knock.

Suggestions?

ShneekeyTheLost

2012-10-07, 07:37 PM

Oh for the love of... not another one of these silly things again.

First off, the scenario you described won't work, because a scroll cannot be set to go off when circumstances occur.

Second off, the Gate effect would take the SoA to wherever it was keyed to go to, so it wouldn't go off even if it COULD activate.

Third off, all locks can be affected by Knock, a simple wand defeats this most trivial of challenges.

Fourth off, it's a pathetically simple challenge, given the WBL the dragon has access to. Simply coating it in Quintessence is enough to remove it from the time stream and prevent anything from activating.

So you've basically got several blatant rules violations in your original supposition, and even WITH them, it's still trivially conquered.

I hope this doesn't turn into another Stuffy Doll scenario, I really don't.

Duboris

2012-10-07, 07:48 PM

I hope this doesn't turn into another Stuffy Doll scenario, I really don't.

I'm not going to make it like that.

However, it would be more helpful if you could help suggestions like that. The 4 locks, effectable by knock or not, are benign, as my wizard PC never takes the spell, as I rarely give him locks he can't normally open.

The Gate thing is obviously just a plot device, but if you have something that could cast it upon being opened, that'd be great.

The dragon isn't aware of what device is inside, however.

I'm simply asking for a scenario where he could open it, and well, not kill my entire party and himself at the same time.

TuggyNE

2012-10-07, 07:52 PM

The dragon isn't aware of what device is inside, however.

I'm simply asking for a scenario where he could open it, and well, not kill my entire party and himself at the same time.

So... the question is how to blind-disable an extraordinarily dangerous bomb without prior knowledge that it's even explosive?

Yeah, this'll go real well.

Essentially it comes down to having a chance to prepare for disabling it; otherwise there is no plausibility of success.

Duboris

2012-10-07, 08:10 PM

The players will tell the dragon that it is potentially destructive, as will the commanding knight that they're with.

He'll tell it at first that there's a SoA in the box, along with what it's original purpose was, which was to be sent into a renegade hideout and wipe them off the face of the earth.

After that, the dragon would attempt to undo it. The question is, is how.

Arcanist

2012-10-07, 08:48 PM

=>ShneekeyTheLost

Oh for the love of... not another one of these silly things again.

We have one of these types of threads at least once a week... :smallconfused:

First off, the scenario you described won't work, because a scroll cannot be set to go off when circumstances occur.

*Lets assume the Chest is an awakened chest with +37 to UMD :smallbiggrin:

Second off, the Gate effect would take the SoA to wherever it was keyed to go to, so it wouldn't go off even if it COULD activate.

*The Gate is keyed to go to a room on another plane where the adventurers just so happen to unfortunately be, meaning the SoA goes through the portal and ruins someones week.

Third off, all locks can be affected by Knock, a simple wand defeats this most trivial of challenges.

*Assume the awakened chest has spell immunity casted on it to render it immune to knock :smallsmile:

Fourth off, it's a pathetically simple challenge, given the WBL the dragon has access to. Simply coating it in Quintessence is enough to remove it from the time stream and prevent anything from activating.

*Time Hop also works. You can remove the lock on the chest :smalltongue:

So you've basically got several blatant rules violations in your original supposition, and even WITH them, it's still trivially conquered.

Thought exercises like these are actually allowed to bend the rules for example: "How hard to kill would a straight Archivist with Uncanny Forethought, a Full BAB and a good Fort save be? Oh and he's undead and has regeneration!" These things clearly violate the rules, but the question isn't "Is this RAW legal" It's "How do I kill this abomination?" meaning "blatant rule violations" lose their meaning since these experiments aren't supposed to follow all the rules and are just to be combinations of traits that make the subject harder to kill or open or whatever the goal is.

I hope this doesn't turn into another Stuffy Doll scenario, I really don't.

That would imply that the box gets another lock after each attempt :smallbiggrin: Thanks for referencing Stuffy Doll on that note.

Glimbur

2012-10-07, 09:10 PM

Why do we want to open the box if we also want to keep the SoA dormant? It seems like as good a container as any for Ultimate Destruction.

Biffoniacus_Furiou

2012-10-07, 09:18 PM

UMD a Dorje (wand) of Time Hop (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/timeHop.htm) on the box. It jumps forward in time, remaining unopened, leaving the contents behind to be retrieved. Since the box was never opened, the plot device is never triggered.

Invader

2012-10-07, 09:36 PM

A simple casting of shape metal should be enough to reshape the box so that you can get the SoA and scroll out with messing the locks, clasp, etc. without actually opening it.

Duboris

2012-10-07, 09:38 PM

Seeing as how the post above mine makes sense, I'm still wondering whether a Green Dragon would willingly take that as a token for your safe passage, if only to add to his massive hoard.

I mean a Block of Adamantium in itself is a reasonable token. Hell I might just remove the thing entirely and put something not so capable of breaking the laws of the space-time continuum in, if only to make sure I don't unmake 6 PCs and a CR 13 Green Dragon.

Also it might have been valueble to point out that every character in this is below level 4, and there's only a Chaotic Neutral Cleric (Chaotic Evil Deity) and a Wizard playing a wizard for the first time that could potentially cause this thing to erupt without mercy.

Tvtyrant

2012-10-07, 09:39 PM

The dragon animates the box and has it destroy the scroll, and then uses a Rod of Cancellation on the sphere.

Duboris

2012-10-07, 09:41 PM

The dragon animates the box and has it destroy the scroll, and then uses a Rod of Cancellation on the sphere.

Or that.

Doesn't a rod of cancellation destroy a sphere?

karkus

2012-10-07, 09:45 PM

I hope this doesn't turn into another Stuffy Doll scenario, I really don't.

What's the Stuffy Doll scenario?

Arcanist

2012-10-07, 09:46 PM

=>Duboris

Or that.

Doesn't a rod of cancellation destroy a sphere?

This dreaded rod is a bane to magic items, for its touch drains an item of all magical properties. The item touched must make a DC 23 Will save to prevent the rod from draining it. If a creature is holding it at the time, then the item can use the holder’s Will save bonus in place of its own if the holder’s is better. In such cases, contact is made by making a melee touch attack roll. Upon draining an item, the rod itself becomes brittle and cannot be used again. Drained items are only restorable by wish or miracle. (If a sphere of annihilation and a rod of cancellation negate each other, nothing can restore either of them.)

I think this is the perfect resolution to the Ultimate Spear Vs Ultimate Shield argument... :smalltongue:

=>Karkus

What's the Stuffy Doll scenario?

The object(s) or creature(s) increases in difficulty each time. Think of the Omni-Droid from The Incredibles. Each time after each defeat getting stronger and stronger, eventually getting to the point where only itself can defeat itself (That seriously put egg on my face...).

Gavinfoxx

2012-10-07, 10:15 PM

What's the Stuffy Doll scenario?

Go and click the thing that says "D&D 3e/3.5e/d20", and browse the first page of this very forum.

Duboris

2012-10-07, 10:36 PM

Kelb_Panthera

2012-10-07, 10:53 PM

For the sake of not killing my overly-curious PC's, could anyone by chance suggest an artifact of equal power that won't kill everyone as soon as it meets contact with sunlight, but was possibly still intended to kill everyone in the surrounding area?

Custom intelligent artifact that makes everyone around it paranoid to the point they start killing one another without automatically realizing the artifact is the source of the sudden discord?

Arcanist

2012-10-07, 10:55 PM

Custom intelligent artifact that makes everyone around it paranoid to the point they start killing one another without automatically realizing the artifact is the source of the sudden dischord?

Ladies and gentlemen I present you the Statue of Discord... If enough Discord is presented a... Whatever the hell Discord (http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/28100000/Discord-my-little-pony-friendship-is-magic-28150084-869-919.png) is pops in on you and ruins your entire week :smalltongue:

TuggyNE

2012-10-07, 11:54 PM

Bottle a Living Spell of some helpful (read: horribly deadly) spell using PF Alchemist ability.

Possibilities: hungry pit, summon monster IX, black tentacles, confusion, plane shift (to some horrible destination such as Positive Energy Plane). I'm sure there's lots more ideas!

Kelb_Panthera

2012-10-08, 12:25 AM

Ladies and gentlemen I present you the Statue of Discord... If enough Discord is presented a... Whatever the hell Discord (http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/28100000/Discord-my-little-pony-friendship-is-magic-28150084-869-919.png) is pops in on you and ruins your entire week :smalltongue:

So that's the discord that everyone keeps referencing.

's a shame that I just don't get the whole pony craze.

Gavinfoxx

2012-10-08, 12:46 AM

's a shame that I just don't get the whole pony craze.

To get it, you simply have to start watching the first few episodes of the first season. The world they inhabit is very, very... gygaxian. Seriously, Equestria could totally be placed in Greyhawk without any major changes.

Kelb_Panthera

2012-10-08, 12:48 AM

To get it, you simply have to start watching the first few episodes of the first season. The world they inhabit is very, very... gygaxian. Seriously, Equestria could totally be placed in Greyhawk without any major changes.

I actually did watch the first couple of episodes (yay netflix). I just ain't feelin' it. *shrug*

Doxkid

2012-10-08, 02:42 AM

What's stopping the dragon from just keeping the super-bomb? You know, to use as a...well...super-bomb.

Green dragons are natural/compulsive schemers, if memory serves; most of their fluff is geared toward selling out their co-conspirators so they can later manipulate their allies into opposing another rival, whom the dragon may or may not know about yet.

Once it's in the dragon's claws, there won't be much stopping said dragon from yelling out "Nya-Nya! Got your bomb! Now then, please give me your...everything.", while making rude gestures and postulating the the mothers of all parties involved had a profession serving in a house of ill repute.
----------
An alternate artifact, still involving dragons, would be one that summons/teleports/calls/creates an enraged dragon whose size/age/summon duration increases with each use.

This will let them indulge their curiosity without killing them outright; if they DO end up fighting a Wyrm it is only their fault they couldn't figure out the rather simple pattern of: Open box->Dragon appears->open again->bigger dragon appears.

TuggyNE

2012-10-08, 02:48 AM

An alternate artifact, still involving dragons, would be one that summons/teleports/calls/creates an enraged dragon whose size/age/summon duration increases with each use.

This will let them indulge their curiosity without killing them outright; if they DO end up fighting a Wyrm it is only their fault they couldn't figure out the rather simple pattern of: Open box->Dragon appears->open again->bigger dragon appears.

This is full of much win. Bonus points if you can somehow make it even more matryoshka-like.

nedz

2012-10-08, 04:51 AM

For the sake of not killing my overly-curious PC's, could anyone by chance suggest an artifact of equal power that won't kill everyone as soon as it meets contact with sunlight, but was possibly still intended to kill everyone in the surrounding area?

Scroll of Apocalypse from the Sky and some random artefact ?

Arcanist

2012-10-08, 04:55 AM

Scroll of Apocalypse from the Sky and some random artefact ?

Angel Tear AND a Scroll of Apocalypse from the Sky. Tell your lucky caster to go hide underground and cast the spell so that they can summon the great Atropus to feast upon this world and regain a portion of it's rightful Divine power :smallamused:

TuggyNE

2012-10-08, 05:31 AM

Angel Tear AND a Scroll of Apocalypse from the Sky. Tell your lucky caster to go hide underground and cast the spell so that they can summon the great Atropus to feast upon this world and regain a portion of it's rightful Divine power :smallamused:

This is less "blows up a band of jumped-up thugs" and more "foolishly destroys the entire world for no particular reason".

Not perhaps the best idea to throw on a level 4 party? (Although honestly throwing artifacts at them at all, however indirectly, seems a bit heavy-handed too.)

Killer Angel

2012-10-08, 06:41 AM

*Lets assume the Chest is an awakened chest with +37 to UMD :smallbiggrin:

Let's name it "The Luggage" and be done with it. :smallamused:

hoverfrog

2012-10-08, 07:00 AM

Suggestions?Minions. Trick a bunch of adventurers into opening the box while the dragon waits patiently to nuke them from orbit.

Duboris

2012-10-08, 11:49 AM

Would anyone happen to have a link to a place where it vividly describes the behavior of all colors and types of dragons?

Also a scroll of apocalypse from the sky is just silly.

Arcanist

2012-10-08, 03:27 PM

Would anyone happen to have a link to a place where it vividly describes the behavior of all colors and types of dragons?

Also a scroll of apocalypse from the sky is just silly.

Don't have a link, but I have suggested reading material in the form of "Dragonomicon".

Spider_Jerusalem

2012-10-08, 03:55 PM

Suggestions?

Yes, three of them.

Kelb_Panthera

2012-10-08, 04:03 PM

Don't have a link, but I have suggested reading material in the form of "Draconomicon".

+1. It's as close as you're going to get to a complete source on the subject. It only covers the ten MM dragons in great detail though. You might get a little extra mileage with Dragons of [Eberron/Faerun/Krynn*]

*(3rd party)

Mystral

2012-10-08, 04:15 PM

Disintegrate. Don't open the box, dust it. Effects don't get triggered.

(Not sure if a green dragon can cast disintegrate when adult, but it should have enough money to buy scrolls)

nedz

2012-10-08, 04:23 PM

Also a scroll of apocalypse from the sky is just silly.

Apocalypse from the Sky is a spell from BoVD, admittedly its 9th level.
Its no more silly than a SoA.

Hirax

2012-10-08, 04:37 PM

One thing that nobody has suggested so far is to simply transmute yourself to a very small size (polymorphing into toad, for instance) and teleporting into the box, which wouldn't activate the scroll since the box isn't being opened. You could then use hoard gullet to stash the inactive sphere and teleport back out. Probably taking the scroll, too, because why not?

nedz

2012-10-08, 07:47 PM

Hirax

2012-10-08, 07:59 PM

If you didn't know what was in the box, you wouldn't be trying to get inside without opening it or diffusing it in the first place. If it were absolutely necessary, wish could also be used to get in and out of the box, bypassing things such as dimensional lock.

Jack_Simth

2012-10-08, 08:02 PM

The amount of foreknowledge about the box determines actions. Also the paranoia level of the dragon, and how many resources the dragon is willing to invest in it.

And, of course, the meanness level of the dragon.

I mean, the dragon could just fly it up a few hundred feet, and drop it onto a nice rocky outcropping to pop it open and see what's inside. Sure, that triggers the thing, but ... it really doesn't matter all that much to Mr. Dragon.

If he's willing to spend a little coin, he can do more.

Metal Melt (Spell Compendium page 140) will turn the box into a puddle around whatever it contains. 4th level spell scroll, which the dragon can use on a roll of 2 (caster level 7 on the scroll, vs. caster level 5 for the dragon by default). Dispel Magic can make the box nonmagical briefly if needed.

Animate Objects + Polymorph turns the box into a creature, and then turn it into a non-container... evicting anything inside (usually).

Disintegrate, obviously.

There's... really no shortage of methods.

Arcanist

2012-10-08, 10:27 PM

+1. It's as close as you're going to get to a complete source on the subject. It only covers the ten MM dragons in great detail though. You might get a little extra mileage with Dragons of [Eberron/Faerun/Krynn*]

*(3rd party)

Also look to Races of the Dragon which, although is lacking in knowledge pertaining to True Dragons (except the only little bit that matters). It gives SOME details about them (and their children races)

Disintegrate. Don't open the box, dust it. Effects don't get triggered.

(Not sure if a green dragon can cast disintegrate when adult, but it should have enough money to buy scrolls)

Nope, it cannot cast disintegrate... quite unfortunate really... Just give him a Dijorn of Disintegrate... much more cool...

Doxkid

2012-10-09, 12:28 AM

Would anyone happen to have a link to a place where it vividly describes the behavior of all colors and types of dragons?

Also a scroll of apocalypse from the sky is just silly.

Draconomicon. Here is a quick summary from what I've learned over the years:

Black: Vicious and battle loving. Live in swamps. Prefer coins in their hoard.

Blue: proud and oddly lawful. Live in deserts. Collect ANYTHING.

Brass: love talking. Live in deserts. Collects organic items (worked wood, paintings...)

Bronze: Curious and love justice. Islands and coasts. Love things from the sea.

Copper: pranksters. Live in mountains. Love things from the earth and jokes.

Gold: uber-paladins. Live in hard to reach places. Love high quality art.

Green: Politicians. Live on cliffs. Love trophies and valuables.

Red: Extreme greed. Live around mountains. Anything that kind of has value.

Silver: lesser paladins. Mountains or with people. Jewelry.

White: Pure hunters. Anywhere cold. Shiny things

Sith_Happens

2012-10-09, 07:08 AM

So, Duboris, seeing as this thread exists, I take it you were wrong about the "my party thinks that 'important' if and only if 'pings under Detect Magic'" bit from the other thread?:smalltongue:

Duboris

2012-10-09, 11:40 AM

Well, the way I worded the bit about the box to them went about like this.

"As you detect the room for magic, you sense only your own belongings, the flight-capable wings on the back of the knight handing the box to you, his weapons, all the weapons of the sergeants around you and that's all you sense. For some reason that currently escapes you, however, you are not capable of detecting any trace of magic within the box, as your detection cannot pierce it's adamantium walls."

So I basically told them "You don't know what's in the box"
Which caused a mass amount of curiosity from everyone, and they tried every trick in the book to get it open.

Sith_Happens

2012-10-09, 01:52 PM

"As you detect the room for magic, you sense only your own belongings, the flight-capable wings on the back of the knight handing the box to you, his weapons, all the weapons of the sergeants around you and that's all you sense. For some reason that currently escapes you, however, you are not capable of detecting any trace of magic within the box, as your detection cannot pierce it's adamantium walls."

See, your mistake was including the parts I bolded. You can't straight-up tell your players that you're hiding something and expect them to not want to know what that something is. If you had simply not listed the box among the objects that do detect as magic, you might have gotten by invoking only mild curiosity.