Tome of Battle Questions

[The Redwolf]

I have a few questions about the Tome of Battle if you all could help me out.

Firstly, are there any ways other than using the Martial Study feat or leveling up to gain extra maneuvers? Secondly, is there a way other than the Extra Readied Maneuver to gain, well an extra readied maneuver? Finally, are you allowed to use maneuvers like spells and prepare the same one multiple times per combat, or can I only use say Fan the Flames once per encounter without refreshing?

Side Question: Do you have any specific recommendations for good maneuvers, stances or uses thereof from the Shadow Hand, Stone Dragon, Iron Heart, or Desert Wind disciplines? I know Iron Heart Surge is mentioned a lot, and I took it because I can see good uses, but I feel like I'm missing something given the frequency with which it's mentioned. I'll be level 17, and I can list the maneuvers and stances I already have if anyone's interested.

Thank you all!:smallsmile:

[Dumbledore lives]

I don't think there are any ways to get extra maneuvers known or granted other than the ones you listed. Unfortunately you can't prepare a single maneuver more than once.

As for good maneuvers pick up Mountain Hammer from Stone Dragon and ignore most of the rest. Maybe Mountain Tombstone strike if you don't qualify for any other ninths. Iron Heart has a lot of useful maneuvers, notably wall of blades for replacing AC for one attack with an attack roll, almost always a good thing. Iron Heart in general is the strongest of the ones you listed, though some of the teleports from Shadow Hand can be nice.

[ThiagoMartell]

You can use magical items to get extra maneuvers. They are listed on ToB itself.

You can't ready 'copies' of maneuvers. It's really only once an encounter.

[INoKnowNames]

I have a few questions about the Tome of Battle if you all could help me out.

Firstly, are there any ways other than using the Martial Study feat or leveling up to gain extra maneuvers? Secondly, is there a way other than the Extra Readied Maneuver to gain, well an extra readied maneuver? Finally, are you allowed to use maneuvers like spells and prepare the same one multiple times per combat, or can I only use say Fan the Flames once per encounter without refreshing?

Side Question: Do you have any specific recommendations for good maneuvers, stances or uses thereof from the Shadow Hand, Stone Dragon, Iron Heart, or Desert Wind disciplines? I know Iron Heart Surge is mentioned a lot, and I took it because I can see good uses, but I feel like I'm missing something given the frequency with which it's mentioned. I'll be level 17, and I can list the maneuvers and stances I already have if anyone's interested.

Thank you all!:smallsmile:

Some answers, not particularly in order.

First of all, Stone Dragon Stances require you to stay on the ground and move no more than 5 ft per round, or you lose the stance and have to readjust yourself back into it. Basically, Stone Dragon has **** for stands. Never do them.

Secondly, if you can refresh your maneuver, you can reuse it again immediately. All day, 24-7. Go nuts.

Desert Wind depends a bit on who you're fighting. Lots of enemies have resistance to fire at such levels, and being a combat style based on flaming fists and hadokens would put you at a disadvantage against foes resistant to such types of damage.

How exactly are you fighting? Are you strong enough that your full attack + weapon mods and strength and such beats most maneuvers in terms of damage per turn? If so, you'll probably want to avoid single damage strikes. Picking maneuvers that you can use as swift actions, be they boosts to your main attacks or counters to protect you, would be good.

Alternatively, if your stats and build don't say too much in your full attack, go for high powered strikes to keep doing damage well. Regardless, the Shadow Jaunt line, especially the one that's a swift action, should be very appeling.

I was under the assumption that Shadow Hand and Desert Wind were Swordsage Specific, but Iron Heart is Warblade Specific. What's your class and overall build type? More specific info can be thought up from these guys with this knowledge.

Particularly, if you're two weapon fighing, the Burning Blade attacs from Desert Wind and the Two Weapon Fighting Combos/additions from Tiger Claw, or the Full Attack Techniques in Diamond Mind might be very appealing.

Just a few random thoughts.

[sonofzeal]

First of all, Stone Dragon Stances require you to stay on the ground and move no more than 5 ft per round, or you lose the stance and have to readjust yourself back into it.
[citation needed]

[INoKnowNames]

[citation needed]

Except for "Crushing Weight of the Mountain", all of the Stone Dragon Stances are tagged at the end with the line "This stance immediately ends if you move more than 5 feet for any reason, such as from a bull rush attack, a telekinesis spell, and so forth.". Citation via the book. Check, page 83, 84, and 85.

[Kelb_Panthera]

[citation needed]

It's there for all but crushing weight of the mountain that you can't move more than 5ft, but I don't see any of them saying that you have to stay on the ground.

Edit: damn ninjas are thick as flys on a cow pie around here lately.

@ the op: if this is a character already in play, then we're going to need to see what you've already got before we can make any suggestions on what to do at level up.

The rest of your questions are answered with a no. You can get maneuvers and stances from martial scripts and crown of the white raven items, but otherwise you can't do any of those things you asked about.

[INoKnowNames]

It's there for all but crushing weight of the mountain that you can't move more than 5ft, but I don't see any of them saying that you have to stay on the ground.

Page 81: "Unlike with other disciplines, adepts of this school rely on an external force—the power of the earth and stone—to help power their maneuvers. As a result, Stone Dragon maneuvers can be initiated only if you are in contact with the ground."

[Kelb_Panthera]

Page 81: "Unlike with other disciplines, adepts of this school rely on an external force—the power of the earth and stone—to help power their maneuvers. As a result, Stone Dragon maneuvers can be initiated only if you are in contact with the ground."

I stand corrected.

And that's not just stances either, that's the whole maneuver list for the discipline.

[INoKnowNames]

I stand corrected.

And that's not just stances either, that's the whole maneuver list for the discipline.

Exactly. However, there are at least 2 gems that are still worth considering (Mountain Hammer and Mountain Tombstone Strike), so I don't hate on it 100%. Just 95%.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Exactly. However, there are at least 2 gems that are still worth considering (Mountain Hammer and Mountain Tombstone Strike), so I don't hate on it 100%. Just 95%.

Meh, if you spend ~80% of your adventuring career in dungeons you're going to have your feet on the ground 95% of the time anyway. Flyers are an outlier for the ranged party member to shine.

The above isn't always the case, but it's a common enough paradigm to keep the school from really being anything near worthless.

[INoKnowNames]

Meh, if you spend ~80% of your adventuring career in dungeons you're going to have your feet on the ground 95% of the time anyway. Flyers are an outlier for the ranged party member to shine.

The above isn't always the case, but it's a common enough paradigm to keep the school from really being anything near worthless.

Still, everything else is pretty much as good, if not better, and the ultimate level maneuver has no restriction, so unless there's a specific mid level maneuver you're looking for, you're fine with using stone dragon just to fill up spares.

Though I agree I was a bit too harsh on the maneuvers... though the stands* have no excuse.

*darn Jojo's Bizarre Adventure!*

[Firechanter]

You can use magical items to get extra maneuvers. They are listed on ToB itself.

You can't ready 'copies' of maneuvers. It's really only once an encounter.

To elaborate a bit:
Each discipline has its own unique item type (vests, shoes, bracers...) that come in three sizes and "contain" a maneuver. I think the common consensus is that most everyone would only get Novice versions of anything because a) they are really cheap, b) non-Adepts don't meet the prereqs for higher-level maneuvers and c) Adepts can save a lot of money by swapping out low- for highlevel maneuvers on even levels and retain the swapped-out maneuver by way of the item.

As far as I know, there is nothing to prevent you from stacking multiple (different) maneuvers on a single item, as per the standard item creation rules. So for example a Novice Crown could hold three level 1-3 White Raven maneuvers for a market price of 12000GP.

As for copies of maneuvers, well there is the Martial Script thing, works like Scrolls, but it's commonly regarded as poorly written / plain stupid concept and most groups seem to just ignore it altogether.

[ThiagoMartell]

The weapons of legacy in the book also grant the use of some maneuvers.

[Firechanter]

Yeah, but these WoL are the single most crappy part of the whole book, even worse written than the Martial Scripts, and not one of them is worth investing in them.

http://stockguy22.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/its-a-trap4.jpg

[Darrin]

Some of these have already been answered, but in order:



Firstly, are there any ways other than using the Martial Study feat or leveling up to gain extra maneuvers?


Check the magic item section in ToB. There are Martial Scripts, and then several "Crown of the White Raven" type items that can grant you another known maneuver.

There's also the heroics spell from the Spell Compendium, which grants you a fighter bonus feat for a limited duration. Martial Study and Martial Stance are fighter bonus feats, so you can grant yourself at least three maneuvers and a variety of stances with a wand of heroics.



Secondly, is there a way other than the Extra Readied Maneuver to gain, well an extra readied maneuver?


Master of Nine grants an additional readied maneuver every level, so that's generally the fastest way to increase the number of readied maneuvers. Unfortunately, it's a bit of a pain to qualify for.

There may be other work-arounds, depending on what you're trying to accomplish. Adaptive Style is generally considered a must-have for Swordsages, but it can also be taken by Warblades and Crusaders to "reset" their readied maneuvers. For Warblades, this allows them to swap in a maneuver they didn't anticipate they'd need without meditating for 5 minutes, and for Crusaders may allow them to avoid the "random" granting mechanic for a round, if they absolutely must have a particular maneuver ready to go on their next round.

There's also the "Idiot Crusader" build which uses a Warblade dip to "ready" a few Stone Dragon/White Raven maneuvers, so that the number of Crusader maneuvers left is exactly equal to their granted maneuvers. This means every time you use a Crusader maneuver, it automatically is granted the next round, and you never have to worry about randomly getting a manevuer you can't use.

Could you be a bit more specific about why you need more readied maneuvers?



Finally, are you allowed to use maneuvers like spells and prepare the same one multiple times per combat, or can I only use say Fan the Flames once per encounter without refreshing?


You cannot ready multiple "copies" of a maneuver. Once you have Fan the Flames readied, you can use it once, and then you need to recover or refresh it.

If you have two different initiator classes in the same build, you keep track of them separately, but are still limited to one "copy" readied at a time. For example, if you have Mountain Hammer readied as a Warblade, you can't have it as a Crusader maneuver. (This is the basis of how the Idiot Crusader works.)



Side Question: Do you have any specific recommendations for good maneuvers, stances or uses thereof from the Shadow Hand, Stone Dragon, Iron Heart, or Desert Wind disciplines?


Shadow Hand:

Island of Blades (SH1, Stance). The party rogue will be your BFF. If you've got a Shadow Blade build, you'll spend 95% of your time in either this stance or Assassin's Stance.

Shadow Blade Technique (SH1, Stike). Most Shadow Hand strikes can be avoided/ignored, but this one may be useful for crit-fisher builds, since two d20 rolls = better chance to roll a crit or "natural 20".

Cloak of Deception (SH2, Boost). Improved invisibility for a round... even if you never use this in combat, the shoplifting possibilities are just mind-boggling.

Shadow Jaunt (SH2, Uh... Strike?). At-will teleport as a standard action. I mean, just the pranks you can pull on prison guards... absolutely priceless.

Assassin's Stance (SH3, Stance). The cake upon which you can add some very interesting icing: Craven, Staggering Strike, Maiming Strike, etc.

Dance of the Spider (SH3, Stance). While I'm still a huge fan of Assassin's Stance, at-will spiderclimb can be immensely useful, particularly for circumventing traps and DM's that forget to think in three dimensions.

Shadow Stride (SH5). The most useful of the three shadow jump maneuvers, even more valuable than Shadow Blink. Why? Because you *need* your swift actions for too many other things, while attacking with a strike often leaves you with a move action and nothing interesting to do with it. Another perk: no prereqs, so you can pick it up easily with Martial Study or a heroics spell.

Bloodletting Strike (SH5, Strike). Yes, in general, strikes with a save should be avoided. But even if your target makes his Fort save, he still takes 2 Con damage, which can still be quite devastating, particularly if used repeatedly.

Five-Shadow Creeping Ice Enervation Runcible Banana Kitchen Sink Strike (SH9, Strike). This strike is a book-keeping nightmare, and it also relies on the target failing a Fort save, so it's not actually a very good strike from a mechanical standpoint... but it has one of the best names, and with the possible exception of Girallon Windmill Flesh Rip, is absolutely the most fun to shout out at the top of your lungs.

Stone Dragon:

Charging Minotaur (SD1, Strike). A solid pick for a charge-focused build, and generally useful even if you're not going the Pounce/Ubercharger route. It does damage, which avoids one of the main disadvantages of bull rushing, and it also involves a little battlefield control, allowing you to move an opponent out of position (or off a cliff).

Mountain Hammer (SD2, Strike). GET IT. END OF DISCUSSION.

Crushing Weight of the Mountain (SD3, Stance). One of the easier ways to get constrict damage, if you're working on a grapple-based build. Also one of the few Stone Dragon stances that doesn't care how far you move, or if you're flying/levitating/etc.

Bonesplitting Strike (SD4, Strike). 2 Con damage, no save.

Mountain Avalanche (SD5, Strike). It can be difficult to pick up Trample as a PC without resorting to polymorph/wildshape shenanigans. This gives you pretty much auto-damage without an attack roll, which can be lots of fun with effects that trigger automatically on damage (such as Knock-Down).

Mountain Tombstone Strike (SD9, Strike). 2d6 Con damage. No save, no arguments, no apologies, no forgiveness. Also, no pre-reqs.

Iron Heart:

Punishing Stance (IH1, Stance). AKA the kill-it-dead-quicker stance. Don't worry about the AC penalty: you have infinitely high AC against creatures that are dead.

Steel Wind (IH1, Stance). Starts out as sort of a mini-cleave, but stays useful as sort of a mini-pounce. Even when your BAB gets high enough to get multiple iterative attacks, this strike still allows you to move + attack twice. Requires your enemies to be dumb enough to stand next to each other, but still remains quite effective a lot longer than when you first think about trading it out.

Wall of Blades (IH2, Counter). One of the best "Oh no you didn't!" counters.

Iron Heart Surge (IH3). This notorious manevuer has two main complaints against it... First, there's a lot of poopflinging, mostly in jest, about using this to end various things like sunlight, gravity, weak nuclear force, etc. None of those would ever work in a real game because even a sub-par DM would never let that stuff fly. Second, from a mechanical standpoint, most of the status effects that this maneuver *should* counter don't work, such as stunning, dazing, paralysis, etc., because they prevent movement, and you need to be able to move to use IHS. Also, there are some bizarre spell/area effects that it *does* counter, like wall of fire or anti-magic field, that it probably shouldn't, from just a common-sense standpoint. That being said... even if you allow it to work as-written without extensively house-ruling it, it's still just too darned useful to be anything other than a "Must Get".

Lightning Counter (IH4, Counter). For when you need to make sure that Mountain Tombstone Strike just absolutely has to hit.

Mithral Tornado (IH4, Strike). Whirlwind Attack without 17-bajillion useless prereq feats. One tiny little pet peeve that it only targets all opponents that are "adjacent" rather than "within reach", but even so, quite satisfyingly nifty if you can pull this one off. And it should also be noted that, unlike Whirlwind Attack, this strike did not get nerfed with a restriction that would prevent the Bag of Rats/Cleavegasm trick from working...

Strike of Perfect Clarity (IH9, Strike). There's some argument over whether the +100 damage can be multiplied. I'm of the opinion that yes, it's a static modifier, so it is multiplied. Of course, if you've already got an Ubercharger with a x8 or x16 multiplier, it's probably pointless to add any more damage at that point... but yet, still oh-so-satisfying.

Desert Wind:

Burning Blade (DW1, Boost). Frank's Red Hot Sauce for melee: "I put that sh!t on everything."

Flame's Blessing (DW1, Stance). Desert Wind is frequently picked on for relying so much on fire damage, which most higher-CR creatures have resistance or immunity to. This stance is a relatively cheap way to smugly proclaim, "Two can play at that game, vile fiend!"

Fire Riposte (DW2, Counter). I love the straightforward simplicity of this counter: "Oh, you hit me? Fine: BURN BABY BURN!"

Death Mark (DW3, Strike). Good crowd-control area effect for clearing out low-level mooks. Good luck trying to determine where the blast originates from, though.

Zephyr Dance (DW3, Counter). Another great no-nonsense counter, great way to turn a nearly-missed into a swing-and-a-miss.

Searing Blade (DW4, Boost). If you can get your DM to agree that this should be a swift-action boost and not a standard action, then this is a great follow-up to Burning Blade.

Leaping Flame (DW5, Counter). REMF tossing arrows, rays, or orbs at you from the back row? They just won themselves a nice little gift-wrapped "Crap Your Pants" moment.

Ring of Fire (DW6, Strike). The area effect is nice and kind of fun to pull off, but this is probably more useful as the best way to work a Johnny Cash quote into the campaign.

Inferno Blade (DW7, Boost). Collect the whole set! And yes, you generally want to keep Burning Blade and Inferno Blade rather than swap them for their bigger brother, because all three scale up by your IL, and burning off three straight rounds of full attack + bonus fire damage is three times the fun.

Rising Phoenix (DW8, Stance). This is actually not a very good stance at all, since it may be closer to levitating than flying, and most PCs have been flying loop-the-loops around you for ages by the time you get this stance. But on the other hand, how many of those fliers can say they are flying on top of a superheated flamethrower of their own awesomeness? So that's got to be worth something, at least for the purposes of style. But also... Diving Charge/Battle Jump + Pounce = automatic fire damage to everything adjacent to you, so it may be a great way to take out a few armies.

[The Redwolf]

Wow, lot of responses and some really nice stuff there. Alright, to clarify the question about how I got the disciplines I'm playing a monk variant I found on here called Monk of the Sublime Way that allows you to pick any five disciplines to use for your career and I'm only using four because that allows me to get more from the ones that I use.

We're using Pathfinder not 3.5 so we've converted some stuff over, and that also got me a feat at level 17 which I used to give myself two level 9 maneuvers, I currently have Five-Shadow Creeping Ice Enervation Strike and Mountain Tombstone Strike for those. I have greater mighty wallop on my unarmed strikes so I'm hitting for 12d8 plus my strength and other stuff which gives me an overall bonus of +10 str +5 enhancement +1 or 2 from weapon focus and then full BAB for this variant, so I should be able to hit rather hard and reliably.

I've used martial study twice and martial stance once, and I took the extra readied maneuver swordsage thing because that was cleared for me and what is it, adaptive style that makes switching a full round instead of 5 minutes? Overall I think I've set myself up fairly well, I also have both improved and greater sunder so I should be able to destroy stuff and deal a lot of damage through it still, and I have throw anything which should work well with Lightning Throw and the strength limits I have, especially since I have a belt of ant haul to lift massive stuff.

I'll put my current maneuvers and stances below if anyone wants to make alternate suggestions, and I'll mention I took Desert Wind one for the thematic awesomeness it presents, and secondly because our campaign is going to involve a magical winter full of ice-based stuff that should have vulnerability to my fire damage.:smallbiggrin:

Maneuvers-
Desert Wind: Fan the Flames, Inferno Blade, Leaping Flame Salamander Charge, Ring of Fire
Iron Heart: Adamantine Hurricane, Iron Heart Surge, Lightning Throw, Wall of Blades
Shadow Hand: Cloak of Deception, Enervating Shadow Strike, Five-Shadow Creeping Ice Enervation Strike, Hand of Death, Shadow Stride
Stone Dragon: Ancient Mountain Hammer, Earthstrike Quake, Colossus Strike, Irresistible Mountain Strike, Mountain Tombstone Strike

My DM is also going to let me research a custom maneuver for Stone Dragon in-game that is basically breaking out a portion of stone from around you and punching it to resolve as a melee hit at range.

Stances- Balance on the Sky, Crushing Weight of the Mountain, Dancing Blade Form, Fiery Assault, Flame's Blessing

If I should give any more info just let me know, I appreciate all the feedback so far. I should note that a few of the above were chosen more for thematic reasons than for optimization, because I value the character development and roleplaying more.

[The Redwolf]

Kinda bummed out that nobody else has responded since I tried to add some more info...I mean, do you guys think that my choice of feats and all that is pretty good and have I chosen some good maneuvers and stances or did I fall for a trap somewhere?

In case it's relevant, the other party members are a shaper psion, winter witch (archetype and prestige class), and an alchemist in a custom construct made into construct armor, so I'm the heavy hitter for our party. I'm not really going to be charging or bullrushing or anything like that, but with the monk movement bonus and boots of striding and springing I'm very mobile, which is part of why I took ring of fire and salamander charge. Balance on the sky is there to give me flying that isn't technically flying, but I don't have to make fly checks or anything like that, I can just walk around, which is more convenient.

Also, is there anything that might be a better idea than having weapon focus on my fists for an extra +1, like another feat that would be more beneficial? I guess weapon focus does help offset the penalty from snap kick though...seriously, any more advice you guys have would be great. :smallsmile:

[kitcik]

Also, is there anything that might be a better idea than having weapon focus on my fists for an extra +1, like another feat that would be more beneficial? I guess weapon focus does help offset the penalty from snap kick though...seriously, any more advice you guys have would be great. :smallsmile:

I don't play PF so I apologize if this is not legal, but consider Law Devotion.

[The Redwolf]

We are using both 3.5 and Pathfinder stuff, but I doubt I could talk my DM into letting me take something like that, he's fine with the Tome of Battle stuff I have because that's where the stuff for the class comes from, but he'd prefer me to focus on taking Pathfinder stuff otherwise.

[Firechanter]

Kinda bummed out that nobody else has responded since I tried to add some more info

Well, if I understood that right you are asking about a homebrew Monk in a Pathfinder game, on a board where most people don't play Pathfinder, the vanilla Monk is considered the most terrible core class in 3.5 and most people probably never heard of the homebrew you are using, so that may have to do with the chirping crickets. ;)

Disclaimer: I don't know a lot about Swordsagey stuff.

Well, personally I am not so hot about Desert Wind (sorry about the pun) since it just keeps adding Fire damage to everything, and Fire is the element with the most prolific resistances against it.

Also, I'd avoid everything that allows Saves, unless you get a really high Save DC (such as certain Tiger Claw moves that allow you to set the DC by a Jump check).

Stone Dragon is a rather sub-par discipline; it has some nice stuff early on, but basically the only thing you really ever need from it is Mountain Hammer. Some other maneuvers aren't bad, but every other discipline has better stuff so why not make the most of your limited resources.

Shadow Hand has some really nice and tempting stuff, particularly the Stances and Teleports, but also a few other moves. I guess if I were to play a Swordsage, I'd focus on this discipline.
Though I prefer to play Warblades, I still try to acquire a couple of SH maneuvers, such as Cloak of Deception (item) or Shadow Strike (feat).

[The Redwolf]

Well, if I understood that right you are asking about a homebrew Monk in a Pathfinder game, on a board where most people don't play Pathfinder, the vanilla Monk is considered the most terrible core class in 3.5 and most people probably never heard of the homebrew you are using, so that may have to do with the chirping crickets. ;)

True enough, but there was a ton of talk before that about stuff. It doesn't change the fact that I'm using straight up Tome of Battle maneuvers and stances and all that, it's just the chassis for them is different and it was a pretty nice monk build compared to the original honestly since it bumped up to full BAB and added in maneuvers and such in place of the more useless stuff. I see people on here talking about Pathfinder fairly often, and I can link to the monk, but it basically only takes off some features and replaces them with Initiator stuff, so it isn't that relevant.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29762

I do see what you mean I suppose, but still, there was a ton of activity on it before I mentioned the other stuff, then it just went dark.:smallfrown:

[Toliudar]

Without trying to critique your maneuver list...it seems like you've already put a lot of resources into making sure that you have a lot of maneuvers on hand, and you've got a boatload. Is there some specific reason that you think that this won't be enough? In my experience, most high level combats only last a few rounds.

Worst case scenario, you've got adaptive style to refresh maneuvers.

So...why more?

[The Redwolf]

Without trying to critique your maneuver list...it seems like you've already put a lot of resources into making sure that you have a lot of maneuvers on hand, and you've got a boatload. Is there some specific reason that you think that this won't be enough? In my experience, most high level combats only last a few rounds.

Worst case scenario, you've got adaptive style to refresh maneuvers.

So...why more?

I was just curious about if there were ways like how spellcasters get more based off of an ability score, I don't really need more, I was just wanting to make sure I wasn't screwing up because I'm unfamiliar with the system.

[mattie_p]

There's also the "Idiot Crusader" build which uses a Warblade dip to "ready" a few Stone Dragon/White Raven maneuvers, so that the number of Crusader maneuvers left is exactly equal to their granted maneuvers. This means every time you use a Crusader maneuver, it automatically is granted the next round, and you never have to worry about randomly getting a manevuer you can't use.

Jumping in late here, but for what it is worth I disagree with the legality of Idiot Crusader. I don't wish to derail the thread, but if you are interested in why I think it doesn't work, see my explanation here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13987133&postcount=2006).


Could you be a bit more specific about why you need more readied maneuvers?


I've used martial study twice and martial stance once, and I took the extra readied maneuver swordsage thing because that was cleared for me and what is it, adaptive style that makes switching a full round instead of 5 minutes?

Just mulitclass into warblade or crusader at some point to pick up a bunch of these maneuvers. Two pools can be better than one. Sometimes. If you choose wisely.

[The Redwolf]

Just mulitclass into warblade or crusader at some point to pick up a bunch of these maneuvers. Two pools can be better than one. Sometimes. If you choose wisely.

I'm actually fine on maneuvers, I was really just meaning to make sure I wasn't missing ones I should have, and I was trying to list off the feats I had in case anyone wanted to know for advice's sake, I also don't really want to multiclass because I like the variant I'm using and Tongue of Sun and Moon will end up being very useful to me, even though I know a lot of people don't seem to like it.