[PF] Need Ideas for a 21st Level (Or Equivilent CR) BBEG

[Crustypeanut]

As the title says, I'm looking for some ideas for a memorable BBEG for a campaign I'm working on.

Its set in a custom world that will be built as we go, and the campaign starts off at level 6-7 with a good, old fashioned, relatively straight forward, Dungeon Crawl until the players are level 9-10. Once at the end of the 'Dungeon', they will finally meet the BBEG (who has hopefully been harassing them from a distance, taunting them and whatnot on their way there). However, due to the level difference, he/she/it will simply toy with them for a little while, until growing bored and enacting their plan (as of yet undetermined, but would require the PC's in some fashion - not unlike Xykon from OOTS), and leaving, letting his second in command take care of them, although this is not set in stone.

As you can guess, its quite a bit inspired by the Order of the Stick and Xykon, although I don't want any Lich Sorcerers, or even Liches at all.

I mainly want some kind of spellcaster, primary or not, that has a 'grand plan' going for him.

My current idea that I've been working on is below:

Unknown Name - 21st level Human? Wizard (Conjuration/Creation Specialist)

Similar in idea to a Lich, he has merged his body/soul into that of a Living Construct, not unlike a beefed-up Warforged from Eberron. He specializes in creating constructs, and has been building an army of (Basically Warforged, will be renamed), although unlike them, he requires living souls to merge into them, and has been abducting townsfolk from a nearby town to use as preliminary subjects. (Mainly warrior-types and artisans)

Unlike a lich, his construct-body is quite durable, and he can handle himself in melee quite well, although still not comparable to an equal-level primary melee-type. He specializes in Conjuration, and has Illusion and Evocation as his Opposition schools (He doesn't believe in illusions, and thinks evocation is just flashy bullcrap, and prefers to use minions to kill for him). He also uses Enchantment, Necromancy, and Transmutation heavily, as they are the main ways he can rip the soul from a person's body, merge them into a construct, and dominate them into following him.



So, any ideas? Any comments on my own idea? I'm all up for constructive criticism. I doubt anything can be any worse than the Terrorist Paladins with Kobold freedom fighters trying to reenact V for Vendetta I had in my last campaign.. my players won't let me live that one down. lol


Edit: Also, feel free to go 'over the top' with your ideas; my players not only are fine with it, but probably expect it. One of the other players was doing a "Hell Campaign", that included Donkey Kong references, a large homosexual Jamacian wizard npc who enjoyed rubbing down our Luchadore with oil, colossal devil-panties thrown onto the arena by an unknown devil, as well as a crazed, chalk-snorting, goblin cleric of Calistra who was about as competent as an Orc Wizard with 11 intelligence. We're a weird group.


Edit 2: Also, I'm fine with some 3.0/3.5 material.. just give me the source for it and I'll look into it. Would probably throw the players off-guard at least.

[Crustypeanut]

Hate to bump myself.. but here I am! lol

I'm still working on coming up with ideas, but none of them stand out to me as good material so far.. XD

[Feralventas]

For your current proposed BBEG idea, do you have any particular ideas for motivation? Why would he take such drastic and clearly amoral practices into his list of "this is okay to do?"

Blatant atrocity usually demands a measure of Reason for it, either that or just a wizard gone mad.

And are you attached to that idea or are you looking for alternative ideas for a BBEG?

[docnessuno]

I do like your concept, but the whole "fuse yourself with something" really screams Synthesist Summoner imho.

[Crustypeanut]

@Feralv - I'm not particularly picky on what his motives are, my current guy is basically 'conquer all in his path', but I feel its a bit.. meh.. I mean yeah he's innovating the design and construction of these 'living golems' (Warforged) in this particular campaign world, so in that case he may have the upperhand.. but I'm still thinking its a bit too overused. I'm not attached to the idea to the expense of others - I'm posting on this forum to get more ideas, and come up with something that has more 'oomf' to it, even if in the end its just a different flavor of my current guy.

@docness - I agree somewhat, and the Synthesist summoner is part of the inspiration. Its just that instead of temporarily fusing with his summoned Eidolon, he permanently merged his body and soul into a semi-organic magically-animated construct. I even considered him having his "Shield Guardian" Iron Golem have the 'Construct Armor' modification from Ultimate Magic.. then he'd be IRON MAN! But yeah.. I'm actually going that particular route with my character in a friend's campaign.


Edit: Have another idea for a BBEG, though this isn't including his overall goals. This character is from another story of mine made using Dwarf Fortress, and can be found here: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=93256.msg2616283#msg2616283


Dr. Logem Lokumlektad - Dwarven Alchemist (Vivisectionist/Chirurgeon)

A pyschotic, yet outgoing and physically impressive dwarven doctor, who experiments on people (in particular, dwarves) in order to further his understanding of anatomy. However, the ways he goes about this.. are less than socially-acceptable. In my story, it was limited to dropping them from varied heights, but in the D&D campaign, the ways could be far more broad, and can include exposure to diseases, curses, and poisons, exposure to the different elements, etc etc. The players would probably run the gauntlets of 'tests' in order to reach him, only to see him escape and 'thanking them' for their valuable assistance in his research.

If I do this BBEG, it would likely be set in a dwarven settlement, or near one at least, and have the players end up working for the dwarves. Or perhaps, they themselves are test subjects attempting to escape, which would mean a low-equipment starting situation, but would have the obvious plot hook of them wanting revenge.

[Crustypeanut]

Ok well, I think I'm going to go with the "Psychopath Dwarven Doctor" idea instead of my Conjuror idea, as that one has previous material behind it.. and I think I can make it work much better.

This isn't set in stone, but so far I have him being a 20th level Vivisectionist (Alchemist Archetype) and 3rd level Master Chymist, for a total character level of 23. I'm using 3.5 rules for Epic Levels, except that he has no extracts beyond 6th (I haven't a clue how I'd do 'epic' level extracts.. yet)

His normal form (That is, not his Master Chymist form) will be Neutral Evil, and while he's supposedly doing everything he's doing in the name of ‼Science‼ for the advancement of Dwarven Knowledge, he's really just a psychopath who enjoys experimenting on people. However, despite being a crazy dwarf, he's quite 'friendly' and outgoing, and appears at a glance to be nothing more than a sociable doctor. His alternate ego, whose name I haven't decided, is Chaotic Evil, and while not much less intelligent than Logem, he instead prefers to dissect people on the spot, while they're still alive, to see how they work. He's far more direct in his sadistic ways, unlike Logem who's more subtle (But no less sadistic).

As for his goals and motives.. its quite simple in that he wishes to become the best doctor the world has ever known, but he goes about it in the most wrong of ways. The outside dwarven community just doesn't know how he's experimenting on people.

I hope I'm not rambling, by posting numerous times in a row.. but anyways what do you guys think?

[Feralventas]

How 'bout this for the 20ish conjuror; He's looking to fuse himself with something mechanical, having discovered the methods of creating and developing Warforged bodies and started out doing it as an experiment for himself; no big armies, no major conquest or anything of the sort, just some minor crimes against humanity.

However, he's a former worshiper of Wee Jas, who is NOT happy to have such a powerful follower simply abandon worship of her in favor of mechanisms and tinkering deities. Because the conjuror no longer fears death, believing that becoming a construct will grant him functional immortality without the penalties of undeath (both mechanically and fluff-wise since he won't lose a soul, just shift containers), he has essentially rejected her dogma and forsaken his duties as one of her cult. So, she has started sending assassins after him. Failing in that respect, she has begun to usher her other followers to create an army of necromantic powers to strike him down. In a panicked response, what had been a simple experiment to test a theory became an industry, trying desperately to stave off the revenge of a goddess and all the mortal forces she can bring to bare.

I might also suggest that the conjuror take at least a few levels if not all of Ebberon's Renegade Mastermaker to represent the progress he's made in converting himself into a machine (the PrC slowly makes the character into a Warforged over 10 levels with 7/10 casting progression I think. He'll use base warforged as foot-soldiers and high-level golems as his brutes and bludgeons to fight off skeletons and zombies at the low tier and Libris Mortis' horrors at the higher levels.

Meanwhile, the party has only seen the Conjuror's side of the confrontation, and may or may not be able to see through his bluffs that the atrocities he's committing are to stop an undead force that is on its way; he will lie about Why it's coming of course, but there's not certainty that he's wrong either. Perhaps the party was initially contracted by the forces of Wee Jas to help bring him down, and he attempts to reveal to them that they are working for an invader, unwittingly weakening the greatest hope to turn the undead forces away.




As for the "Best Doctor in the World."
What is it that's driven him to such mad means? How exactly does being a killer and a crazy-face help him achieve those goals?

[Crustypeanut]

What book is that Renegade Mastermaker from? I have the Eberron Campaign Setting book, but it doesn't appear to be in it. Its a really great idea, although I had planned on using custom deities for this campaign. I can either make a deity very similar to Wee Jas, or perhaps go old school and update those deities for use in Pathfinder.

Not only that, but it has a great plot twist about it, which I was hoping to include somehow.

-------

The Doctor would be motivated by the general low-lifespan and quality of life of dwarves in his world. Think Dwarf Fortress, but with all of the races and other rules of Pathfinder. Basically, Dwarves are beset on all sides by enemies, with few allies, and due to accidents, invasion, monsters from both above and below, and the general "I don't give a **** about your lives" attitudes of most Nobles in Dwarven Society, most dwarves live horrible, violent, short lives, given comfort only by each other and copious amounts of alchohol.

Dr. Logem would be motivated to learn more about medical science and anatomy to help benefit the Dwarven race as a whole, but the way he goes about it goes against everything a doctor should be for. Basically, he's willing to (and eager to) sacrifice as many lives as needed in order to further his research. He wants to know "What happens" to the Dwarven body when it is subjected to different things, be it gravity, large pointy objects, or flaming acid.

He would lead his own dwarven community, to the outside of which he portrays as a happy place, where life is comfortable, the booze is good, the cake is plentiful (and made with alcohol), and work is easy. But in reality, is where the booze is watered down, food consists of endless, bland mushrooms, the rooms are cramped and disguisting, the cake is a lie, and where life is even more short and brutal than other dwarven settlements. If they're lucky, their deaths will be a quick 20-story drop. If they're not lucky, they'll survive the first test, and be subjected to other tests until they finally perish.

The players will be one group of these test subjects, who were lured here for the very same reasons (and perhaps to escape poverty, criminal pasts, etc), but end up subjected to everything the good doctor has to offer them, before they are able to escape and find a way to avoid recapture and notify the Mountainhomes of whats going on.

That being said, I do really like your idea for my Conjuror..

[Feralventas]

So, for the Doctor, it seems like you'll want to pick up a number of Crafting feats to be able to create the testing environments and take your Cake Is A Lie reference the whole nine yards and just make a Dwarven Aperture Science Theater suite. If you've played through both of those games you should have plenty to work with. Add in some of the numerous trap ideas and you'll be able to study both physical trauma as well as psychological decision making and psychiatric development/harm and how to deal with it.

It's like the dwarf has this idea of a doctor and yet has no idea how to go about it, no formal or even informal training, and is a bit too dim to justify that 16 to 20 int he's likely to have as an alchemist.


Edit: Oh, and Renegade Mastermaker is from Magic of Ebberon, not the campaign-book.

[Crustypeanut]

Gotcha, I'll see if I can find the book.

And as for the doctor.. in my story I posted the link to a few posts ago, he's quite intelligent - those who survive the tests are usually fixed up by him (not using healing extracts either) using his good old fashioned Scalpel (That may or may not have the Vorpal ability..)

Since he's a Vivisectionist, he'd use Knowledge (Nature) as his heal ability, and is not too fond of using painkillers on his patients (May even have them hold some tools for him.. ) He has 23 ranks in it, so he's quite good at what he does. If its broken, fractured, ripped open, bruised, or burnt, he can fix it. Painlessly? No not really.

In my story, he only failed to treat a patient once (of the ones that survived the landing), and mainly because his two nurses were too busy to give the patient water. The rest survived for later testings. One even survived three tests. Granted, it had almost every bone in its body broken.. including its lower spine.. but yeah.

As for formal training.. he probably about has as much as Zed from Borderlands 1 & 2.. and in his mind, he's doing good things for his people. His patients (and anyone else sane) would disagree, of course.

Edit: Holy crap this PrC is perfect! Hell I wish my PC in my friend's campaign could work towards this.. anyways, this would be perfect for this guy. Perhaps what, 15th level Wizard, 6-7th level Renegade Mastermaker? Or perhaps all the way, 11-12th level wizard, 10th level Renegade Mastermaker?

[Crustypeanut]

Ok so here is the updated idea, using a slightly modified version of your idea Feral, quoted from me talking to someone else about it on another forum:

Spoilered for length
First off, I'm making the Conjurer a 15th level Wizard/10th level Renegade Mastermaker. He's basically the most powerful spellcaster on the material plane right now (Or at least in this particular world), as Epic Level Characters are extremely rare. This also means, the players won't have any chance of beating him on their first encounter at level 9-10. They'll encounter him, attempt to kill him before finding out how powerful he is (He'll be just toying with them), before he gets tired and leaves them to their fate at the hands of his second in command.

Now, as for the storyline, this Conjurer is actually not the bad guy. He's just thought of to be. One of Wee Jas's (if I decide to stick with Greyhawk gods, which I might for good ol' times sake) most powerful followers, a Cleric/Wizard/Mystic Theurge Lich, is attempting to fight his way in from say, another continent/the Underdark (Or Equivalent)/Another plane using an undead army, and that the only ones who can basically stand in his way is the Conjurer's Warforged (Will rename) army. However, to create this aimy of his, he's been committing acts against humanity, as his living constructs require souls to power them, and thus has been kidnapping people to do so. He believes its "For the greater good". The players are sent to investigate these missing people, and end up upon one of the Conjurer's lesser lairs but also happens to be where he is at the time, using a specifically designed construct to kidnap people. The players fight through the dungeon's denizens (I want a good old fashioned dungeon crawl here) and end up teaming up with an Inevitable, who was employed by Wee Jas to assassinate the Conjurer, who himself was once a cultist of Wee jas. She wants to not only kill him because she lost a powerful follower, but also because his experiments into creating living constructs (On himself, first) could be as you said, and so she cannot directly take action against him. The Inevitable is a failed assassin, but was also one of the critical instruments for the Conjurer's success in creating a living construct (Since thats almost what the Inevitables are). The Inevitable is himself uncaring about anything but his mission, but teams up with the players to succeed. (They don't know who he's working for or the exact details, they just know he was sent to execute the Conjurer for breaking his oath to his god)

Now, after the first confrontation with the Conjurer, the players kill his second in command and head back to one of the major cities and get info on him. This, along with assistance from the Inevitable (Who left for a while but came back), helps them figure out ways to sabotage the Conjurer's operations for building an army, which they think he's building to conquer various nations. After they do that, they end up finding a way into the Conjurer's main lair (A demi-plane of his construction), where they are able to set an ambush for him as he returns from a one on one confrontation with the aformentioned Lich. The lich would be destroyed during this fight (But will come back later due to his phylactry surviving). The Conjurer, upon teleporting directly into his lair, is ambushed by the players, and was severly weakened with his fight with the lich. This will allow them to finish him off, only to learn by his near-dying breath why he's doing what he's doing. However, before he can finish, the Inevitable steps in and completes his mission, and seals the Conjurer's soul so that Wee Jas can punish him directly.

Since the players now know their mistake, they may end up trying to contact the Conjurer's General of his armies (Who are now no longer bound to the conjurer and are now free-willed, but believe their purpose still holds true and wish to continue it) to right their wrongs. The General still has control of the machine that can infuse souls into warforged, but due to numerous earlier sabotages by the players, is running low on resources and "Volunteers" in the fight against the undead. Since the Lich was temporarily destroyed, the fighting has a temporary lull in it for now, until the lich is reanimated and can resume the war. Thats about how far I am in my ideas..

I guess this thread has also gotten into more of the entire campaign story and not just the BBEG lol.

What do you think?

[Runestar]

What about the green star adept prc from complete arcane?

I know it sucks, but when taken at higher lvs, the delayed spell casting progression is a non issue when you exceed lv20 anyways. A wizard15/GSA10 would still cast as a lv25 wizard. You eventually become an immortal construct.

More info about the prc can be found here.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20041105a

[Crustypeanut]

Hmm.. I can't say I'm hugely fond of the lore behind Greenstar Adepts.. I was leaning towards more arcane engineering than mystic space metal..

Plus I'm mostly set on the Renegade Mastermaker PrC that Feral pointed out to me. I just need to work out the kinks in making him, as well as the lore behind him.

[Rejakor]

Check out the Joker Bard.

A Joker Alchemist is a very doable thing. Using his superhuman abilities to acquire (make?) allies, magic items, and monsters to create labyrinths for the sole purpose of having the PCs be his precious little guinea pigs is a very Joker Bard-like thing to do.