CHALLENGE! High damage throwing character, think you can do it?

[Force2Reckon]

PLEASE READ THIS ALL I swear if someone asks about something I've mentioned or recommends the goddam machinegun ninja throwing thing I'll slap them silly... :smallcool:

Alright first a few notes on the character thus far stats were rolled with 2d6 + 8 (custom rule from DM) I have 20, 20, 18, 18, 17, 16 for ability stats we get max hp every level and one feat per level, so there is not going to be any problem feat wise. pretty sure we get a free +2 LA too, but I may be confusing campaigns. Assume I'm not, oh and starting at lvl 13. I'd like to see what you guys can come up with for this, off the top of your heads or with hours of research idc I want the character to more fit the style than being min/maxed.

I am trying to create a Bullseye (one of Daredevils villainous opponents) style character. By this I mean the character should be able to throw anything and be able to do a lot of damage. I don't want a machine gunner or someone who throws a lot, I want to see a character that throws a few times a round and hits hard (single target damage). I know just how much of a bitch this is with thrown stuff (I've been researching this for a week now).

Things I need: everything pretty much, I have some ideas but I wanna see your suggestions, even if it's just a race or a few feats.

My ideas involved taking something with a decent threat range and increasing it as much as possible and the critical multiplier while stacking up on just raw damage (not SA and such as our dm loves golems AND undead and anti SA creatures but not really anti crittable, dunno why), I figure this can cause massive damage and simulate the whole master at hitting vital points thing. Add in master thrower trick to hit flatfooted and something that makes a thrown weapon have to hit touch to make it easy to hit... Also thought about adding in returning but I wanted to find something that makes it fly back at the end of my turn instead of the beginning of my next. (NOT retrieval, unless you can make a valid argument for using something psionic that gets access), I know theres something that does it cause we have a guy in our group we call Captain America, cause he throws his shield and it ricochets back to him right after. Have a field day, all official material is open (and from what I can see 3.0 stuff is usable too as long as it doesn't have a 3.5 revision)

Oh and our DM does accept homebrew stuff, just not much (my first guy was a hexgunner, a homebrew remake of the gunslinger).

If that's at all confusing or you have any questions ask, I'll answer as soon as physically possible but currently the only computers I have access to are the ones in my campuses comp labs.

For reference here is a link to the wiki page for Bullseye
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullseye_(comics)

[eggs]

Bloodstorm Blade from Tome of Battle sounds like this build in a can. Get some Iron Heart Strikes, and you're there.

You could alternatively do something more complicated like like Hulking Hurler+Knockback+Dungeoncrasher+Master Thrower, but those tend to be more difficult.

EDIT:
The Telekinetic Boomerang power from Complete Psionic also has immediate thrown weapon-retrieval. It's easily accessible to Psychic Warriors and Warminds, and not hard to justify, given the classes' fluff (which is pretty much the same as the Monk's), but without making volley attacks, it may be difficult to get a decent damage output.

[Ardantis]

The best throwing character I've seen is the E6 variant homebrew by Gnorman (Hunter class, Peltast Archetype)

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215986

The three keys to big throwing damage with the 6-level class were this:

Quick Draw

Dex to damage with ranged attacks

Ranged power attack

Skirmish

Without homebrew, Power Throw requires Power Attack, but Scout can stack the effects. Yes, skirmish does not work with high criticals, but thrown weapons are not great for critical builds.

I'd consider Scout with Power Throw into perhaps Thrown Weapons Master as a base. Not sure where to go from there.

[ahenobarbi]

I am trying to create a Bullseye (one of Daredevils villainous opponents) style character. By this I mean the character should be able to throw anything and be able to do a lot of damage. I don't want a machine gunner or someone who throws a lot, I want to see a character that throws a few times a round and hits hard (single target damage). I know just how much of a bitch this is with thrown stuff (I've been researching this for a week now).

You want to throw small objects (not boulders), right? Take a look at Master Thrower PrC form Complete Warrior.


For reference here is a link to the wiki page for Bullseye
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullseye_(comics)

Broken link misses closing parenthesis.

[mregecko]

Bloodstorm Blade from Tome of Battle sounds like this build in a can. Get some Iron Heart Strikes, and you're there.


^^ This

Bloodstorm Blade is my favorite way to build any throwing build. You automatically get Throw Anything, Returning, and can apply Melee feats to your thrown weapons.

If you want to go for a Bullseye, then the improvised weapon feat that reduces the penalty for improvised weapons. They are now melee weapons for you, and you can throw them, applying Power Attack, returning, etc... As desired.

It's Bullseye in a can. Load up with STR, DEX, CON, and go to town.

-- G

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Hulking Hurler in Complete Warrior is what you're looking for.

Pick a large size race, such as Half-Ogre (RoD), though Centaur would be more ideal due to the carrying capacity of quadrupeds.

Get the feat Brutal Throw in CV to use Str instead of Dex on thrown weapon attacks. Get the Area Attack and Overburdened Heave tricks from Hulking Hurler.

With a Centaur, a Belt of the Wide Earth (MIC) with +6 Str added (MIC p234), and all of your level-ups into Str, you'll get a Str 37. The encumbrance tables would be four times the Str 27 numbers, and you'll get x3 for a large quadruped, for a medium load of up to 8,316 pounds. That Belt of the Wide Earth doubles your carrying capacity, which would make your medium load 16,632 instead. CW p159 has the damage for improvised weapons, a sharp object deals damage as though it weighed twice as much, and damage is 5d6 for 400 pounds, plus 1d6 per additional 200 pounds. That means if you throw a sharp object weighing 16,600 pounds, you'll deal 169d6 base weapon damage, for an average of 591 damage from dice alone.

That was easy to do, if you really put some effort into it you would actually need to use exponents to express how much damage your thrown objects deal, because there would be too many zeroes at the end to write. However, you actually wouldn't be able to find an object heavy enough to do that damage without resorting to flying into space and hurling planets.

[Tvtyrant]

Wildshape Ranger/Master of Many Forms/Hulking Hurler

Wildshape into a giant and throw massive chunks of whatever you want at people!

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Bloodstorm Blade also has a cute little trick. Since they can make throwing weapon attacks be considered Melee attacks, Great Cleave can be particularly useful to combo with it. It's like the old 'bag o rats/puppies' trick, only everything in your range is your 'puppy' assuming you have enough DPS to one-shot KO most encounters.

To truly cheese it out, you need Dragonwrought Kobold to get early qualification for Epic feats to have literally uncapped range on your thrown weapons. Basically, you kill everything within Line of Sight every round.

Hint: Power Attack + Shock Trooper + Leap Attack works with thrown weapons with Bloodstorm Blade. Getting a Valorous weapon gives you 4x your BAB in free bonus damage per shot.

[Force2Reckon]

Wow! Thanks for all the great advice and amazing response time, tbh its only my third campaign and its my 2nd character on my own, love furiou's hurler but just doesn't fit the style I feel, too focused on taking something big and konking things on the head, I'll look into psionic boomerang and the bloodstorm thing, on my phone right now, Dang you guys are good.

[laeZ1]

You want to throw small objects (not boulders), right? Take a look at Master Thrower PrC form Complete Warrior.

This is exactly what I was going to suggest. One of my favorite PrCs of all time. To increase the damage, try dipping into swashbuckler to add int to each of your thrown weapons, either have a druid/sorc cast Giralleon's blessing (2 extra arms) on you, or get use magic device and have a scroll on hand, and lastly, whip your bard until he/she sings inspire courage or dragonfire inspiration.

Let's look at this: 4 hands, each have two daggers = 8 daggers

damge is (if the bard is bad) 8d4+(int*8)+ 32 (+4 inspire courage per dagger)
or
(if bard is optimized) 4d4 (assuming only half of the daggers hit) + (int*4) + 64d6 fire damge + 64d6 sonic damge. (minimum 132 + int*4) (maximum 784 +int*4)

moral: Go buy more d6.

[Firechanter]

I agree that Bloodstorm Blade is a great way to go for a thrower, but be aware that there are some caveats:
- first off, you'll want either 2 or 4 levels of the PrC. I recommend 4 because then you can make Full Attacks with your thrown melee weapon (it returns instantly). Technically it does have a good capstone at 10, but levels 5-9 are junk so I say it's not worth it.
- secondly, some of those specials may not work the way you think. For example, be aware the only strikes you can initiate in throw-mode are Iron Heart strikes that target only one creature. You will find there are not very many strikes that qualify.
- the actual point about this PrC is that you can choose to treat all your thrown attacks as melee attacks for one round, but it costs your Swift Action. That means you can't combine this with a Boost or do this in a round after using an Immediate Action.

Still, as it has already been pointed out in this thread, it can be combined with nice things like Shock Trooper, Leap Attack etc. I call this attack sequence "Remote Charge".

[Force2Reckon]

I agree that Bloodstorm Blade is a great way to go for a thrower, but be aware that there are some caveats:
- first off, you'll want either 2 or 4 levels of the PrC.

Ya, I think I'd go to 4 but no more, the others seemed nice but not really worth the extra dive. Def goin MT want the palm throw, or whatever, let's you slight of hand to hit their flatfooted Ac koarki resin Kukri as weapons of choice probably, add in (18-20/x4 light wpns)... Improved critical feat makes that 15-20/x4 gonna check and see what the lvl dip is into swash for int

[Garwain]

For STR to damage, one more vote for the bloodstorm blade. An elegant warblade 5/bloodstorm blade ... is simple and effective! As with all ToB, it's good right out of the box.

For DEX to damage, I tried to build a ranged thrower (search for 'the shredder' on gitp) which explores a lot of intresting options to enhance damage without relying on precission damage or elemental damage. It did use Master thrower's ranged touch attack to get as much from the power throw as possible.

what hasn't been suggested so far:
- ranged weapon mastery: increase dam and range (note that you might get it twice if applied to the piercing and slashing property of daggers)
- precise shot + improved precise shot (negate cover)
- use skipping rocks or desert throwing knives
- BoVD has a PrC that allows you to add straight damage and multiply the thread range while explicitly stating that it stacks. In combination of a dagger and the master thrower improved critical, I believe the threat range is 14-20. (requires evil iirc)
- there is a ACF for fighters called 'targeteer' in the magazins which adds dex to dam instead of str (not to be used in conjunction with master thrower as this cancels str to dam)
- alternatively, try to get high dex and high cha. With 1 lvl of marshal you can add cha to dex checks, including initiative. get improved initiative. That's +14 already. With the fighter ACF: Hit and Run from DotU, you get +2 initiative and dex to dam if flatfooted. Well, with +16 init, you will go first and hit them flatfooted for +dex to dam. I feel might be a good one fluff-wise.

For the race:
- water halfling race (+2dex, +2con, -2str) = +3 to hit on thrown (size, race and dex)
- if you want medium size, I don't have recommendations
- if you want large size, reconsider the hulking hurler. nobody says you need to throw rocks. you can throw anything as long as it is heavy.

[StreamOfTheSky]

4 levels of Bloodstorm Blade to full attack with one thrown weapon, throw any weapon, and treat it as a melee attack for things like Power Attack.

5 levels of Master Thrower to attack touch AC by forgoing str bonus to damage (but you can still power attack). And other neat tricks, like free trip attempt on every attack.

[Heliomance]

Ya, I think I'd go to 4 but no more, the others seemed nice but not really worth the extra dive. Def goin MT want the palm throw, or whatever, let's you slight of hand to hit their flatfooted Ac koarki resin Kukri as weapons of choice probably, add in (18-20/x4 light wpns)... Improved critical feat makes that 15-20/x4 gonna check and see what the lvl dip is into swash for int

Good luck getting hold of Kaorti resin weapons - they're only mae by one race of obscure and rather unfriendly outsiders, and if memory serves there aren't any rules for them being available on the open market - meaning you're going to have to find some Kaorti, and persuade them to make you some weapons.

Also bear in mind that any Kaorti resin weapon is automatically an exotic weapon, so you'll need to buy proficiency with it.

[eggs]

Kaorti are a Summon Monster 2 option, so finding one shouldn't be too hard. Is there a good way to effectively extract their resin-making secrets?

I mean, assuming commanding one to give the 30-second bullet-points version isn't enough.

[Heliomance]

They secrete the resin, it's a biological product. So, no.