The Official Mechwarrior Online Thread

[Silverraptor]

Hello everyone. As you may know, Mechwarrior online open beta will be released on the 16th of October. As such, I thought it would be good to get those on the forum who have been waiting for this moment to come together and rally forward once this is game is available to everyone and not just the few of us who have the Closed Beta currently.

This thread is currently being used as a group roster. After the Open beta comes out, this will then turn into a discussion thread about tactics and build advice.
Download the game here! (http://mwomercs.com/)

I will start a list of members with your forum name and mechwarrior name so we can all group up together. If you want to be added to the list, please post your Username and mechwarrior name down below.

Member List
Forum Name | Pilot Name
9mm | CwCriner
Dragonfire | Dragonfire
dromer | Dromer
Erloas | Erloas
Folytopo | Folytopo
Penguinizer | Penguinizer
Silverraptor | Silverraptor
Storm Bringer | Xerxesking
Suichimo | Suichimo
The Glyphstone | TheGlyphstone


Stat values link: http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/27065-ohms-quick-reference-sheets-for-all-mech-hardpoints-weapons-engines-pilot-lab-images-pdfs-excel-inside/

Mumble
Download here! (http://mumble.sourceforge.net/)
In addition, we have a forum based chat program we normally use called Mumble, which we use with a variety of games. If you want to get together to form a group, just hang out or ask people kindly who are also on it. Contact Djinn_in_Tonic via PM if you have a question or want to donate money to keep the server running.
Address: fish.mumbleboxes.com
Port: 36003

[9mm]

can't... wait...

[Folytopo]

I for one am pretty excited. The game feels pretty good. The one problem will be that it will take a long time to get assault mechs. The grind for lights and mediums feels like league of legends grind for low level champs. It does not feel to bad.

[Dragonfire]

Dragonfire/Dragonfire

Am I the only one who hopes they put a practice mode in the game so you can practice with your Merc Corp?

[Erloas]

I got into the closed beta a few weeks ago... but I haven't actually had any time to play. I played a few hours the day after I got in, but haven't managed to make it back since. The game felt pretty good, though there were a few things that weren't very clear, though some of the issues with match rewards I think had to do with it being changed for testing.

I'm Erloas there too.

[Silverraptor]

Alright, updated everone. Except 9MM, cause he won't tell me his name in the game.:smalltongue:

[Rustic Dude]

The open Beta has been delayed a bit, so maybe it will be the 23rd.

And let's hope they can squash all the bugs with this extra week, because beta or not, this is going to be seen as the real release.

[Silverraptor]

Yeah, I saw that announcement. Oh well, see you all on then.

[Tavar]

Question, but how graphically demanding would you say this game is? I'm interested, but my comp isn't the best.

[Erloas]

There are no official system requirements or even really recommendations that I've seen so far.
Might be easiest to post what you have and let us take an educated guess. As well as what resolution you want to run at (usually the native resolution of your monitor), because that makes a big difference.

I wasn't getting great framerates with my computer, which is kind of old but still pretty good. But I'm using fairly high settings too.

[Rustic Dude]

It will run clunky on Dual Core, although not as clunky as it used to be.
No idea about graphic card, although I run the game at medium settings with a somewhat dated nVidia GTS 240.

[9mm]

9mm/CwCriner

so... anyone know if you can assign weapon groups inside the mechbay?

[Silverraptor]

9mm/CwCriner

so... anyone know if you can assign weapon groups inside the mechbay?

Is the Open beta out? If it is, those of us with closed beta can tell you.

[Rustic Dude]

The NDA is down already, so we can talk freely.

Not yet, 9 mm. You've got to configure them ingame once and it'll be that way until you modify your weapons again. But don't worry Mechlab grouping is in the "to do list".

[Hawriel]

A quad core and 4 gigs of ram are best for running the game.

Setting weapon groups is very simple to do. It only takes afew seconds in game. however weapon group settings in mechlab is an option the devs are looking into.

Sense the NDA was lifted players are no making you tube videos. I have posted afew on X-fire. Check them out. IGN has also had a video from the beta player merc tournament run hot or die.

Open beta was delayed because the closed beta community felt very strongly that the game should not go open beta at the same time the devs installed a large patch with new content. We wanted afew days to test it for bugs first.

The devs then delayed the patch which was due last week Tuesday. hopefully we will still get time to test before open beta.

In short the combat mechanics are solid weapons are coming together very well. The game looks good.

The biggest problem with the game is no integrated voice system. The Devs have plans for using C3 but Im not sure how this will work out. Most players use TS3. Honestly for a game that requires this much team work and the building of a large connected social community integrated voice is a must. Battlefield 2 is the best example of this.

[The Glyphstone]

Just got into the closed beta today, currently patching. Pilot name TheGlyphstone.

[Silverraptor]

Updated the pilot list. Glad to have more people on board.

[The Glyphstone]

Also, I am apparently extremely bad at mech driving. Got CT killed all three matches, never earned more than a thousand CBills or so of damage credit.

[Silverraptor]

Also, I am apparently extremely bad at mech driving. Got CT killed all three matches, never earned more than a thousand CBills or so of damage credit.

If it makes you feel any better, so am I.:smallbiggrin: We need to run together. Folytopo and I were playing together often and I would repeatedly do little damage to the enemy team.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Got into the beta. Only then did I realize my system specs do not meet minimum system requirements. This makes me a *VERY* sad panda.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

I've signed up for the beta, although I'm not sure how well it'll run. My CPU really isn't up to snuff, I think.



Got into the beta. Only then did I realize my system specs do not meet minimum system requirements. This makes me a *VERY* sad panda.

Had the same happen to me with Planetside 2 :smallfrown:

[Silverraptor]

Well, lets hope you guys will be able to join us then. Good luck to you 2.:smallsmile:

[Sir Ebonwolf]

I really want to play this game!

Where can I get it?

[Silverraptor]

I really want to play this game!

Where can I get it?

Its still currently in closed beta, but you can download it for free from their website. I have the link posted in the OP.

[Zen Master]

So .... having not been able to immediately find any real info, I'll just ask: This is World of Tanks - only with mechs .... right?

[Rustic Dude]

The match format and economy system are very World of tanks-y.

The gameplay is Mechwarrior.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

Its still currently in closed beta, but you can download it for free from their website. I have the link posted in the OP.

Can't find a DL link anywhere... is this because my beta status is still "pending"?

[Zen Master]

The match format and economy system are very World of tanks-y.

The gameplay is Mechwarrior.

I didn't intend it to sound as a criticism. Merely an accurate-ish descriptor. A team based shooter in the manner of WoT, but with battle mechs. I've played up to decent mid level tanks in WoT, so I know the concept works.

In WoT, however, I did find the grind for heavier tanks unrewarding, and the pay-to-win business model decidedly unappealing. I also feel that - in the old MW games, there was oodles of customization, enough to make even light mechs fun to play late game - I very seriously doubt anything like that will be present here, which makes it .... well, you can call if either shallow or less fiddly, depending on whether you like that sort of thing or not.

Oh well ..... I guess I'll have to play it at some point =)

[Rustic Dude]

I didn't intend it to sound as a criticism. Merely an accurate-ish descriptor. A team based shooter in the manner of WoT, but with battle mechs. I've played up to decent mid level tanks in WoT, so I know the concept works.

In WoT, however, I did find the grind for heavier tanks unrewarding, and the pay-to-win business model decidedly unappealing. I also feel that - in the old MW games, there was oodles of customization, enough to make even light mechs fun to play late game - I very seriously doubt anything like that will be present here, which makes it .... well, you can call if either shallow or less fiddly, depending on whether you like that sort of thing or not.

Oh well ..... I guess I'll have to play it at some point =)

Eh, I didn't perceive it as criticism. It's just that while the economy and matchmaking take most of their ideas from WoT, the gameplay is a completely different beast and really, I can only compare it to older MW titles. Amazing(and clunky) mechlab, and Mechwarrior mech battles. You can use any mech and do well, unlike MW4 where light and medium mechs are cannon fodder.

[Gnoman]

I didn't intend it to sound as a criticism. Merely an accurate-ish descriptor. A team based shooter in the manner of WoT, but with battle mechs. I've played up to decent mid level tanks in WoT, so I know the concept works.

In WoT, however, I did find the grind for heavier tanks unrewarding, and the pay-to-win business model decidedly unappealing. I also feel that - in the old MW games, there was oodles of customization, enough to make even light mechs fun to play late game - I very seriously doubt anything like that will be present here, which makes it .... well, you can call if either shallow or less fiddly, depending on whether you like that sort of thing or not.

Oh well ..... I guess I'll have to play it at some point =)

Other than the use of "hardpoints" to force weapons to loosely match the model (so a HBK-4G can only have ballistic weapons in the RT, even if it's not a AC/20), it uses the customization system of the board game (which was copied exactly in Mechwarrior 2). Thus, you have a massive amount of flexibility in your designs.

[dromer]

I'm in as Dromer. I checked a few times on the mumble server but I never saw anyone playing Mechwarrior.

[Silverraptor]

Well, the open beta announcement has it (hopefully) starting monday. So we'll see if we can get everyone in a group then.

[The Glyphstone]

As long as it's after 7PM.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

Well, the open beta announcement has it (hopefully) starting monday. So we'll see if we can get everyone in a group then.

Sweet. Can't wait!

[Folytopo]

Tried out the open beta yesterday. It went okay but I made the mistake of switching out srms for streaks and not changing the ammo. That was an awkward round.

[The Glyphstone]

So, I'm having a bit of confusion in that I can't figure out how to earn XP. Every match I play, I'm the only one earning 0 XP unrelated to whether I died or lived or won or lost, or how much damage I caused.

[Folytopo]

Xp is earned for a chassis that you own. So you need to purchase a mech before earning xp for it.

[Silverraptor]

So, I'm having a bit of confusion in that I can't figure out how to earn XP. Every match I play, I'm the only one earning 0 XP unrelated to whether I died or lived or won or lost, or how much damage I caused.

Are you using the trial mechs? The XP is only gained when you use a mech you own yourself and gain xp for that mech individually. (Atleast, thats how Foly explained it to me)

[Rustic Dude]

So, I'm having a bit of confusion in that I can't figure out how to earn XP. Every match I play, I'm the only one earning 0 XP unrelated to whether I died or lived or won or lost, or how much damage I caused.

You're using a Trial Mech. It is some sort of "newbie mech" that earns only money and won't need repairs. Once you get enough money you buy a regular mech and then it is Mechlab time!

[Suichimo]

I can join in. I've been in the closed beta, I'm a legendary founder. Not super active in the game yet, mainly because of the resets, but it sounds like the final one is coming up.

Name is Suichimo in the game as well.

[Silverraptor]

Updated the pilot list. If I missed anyone, let me know.

[The Glyphstone]

Aaaaah, it all becomes clear. Thanks. I also wondered why I didn't have to pay to repair my center torso each match.

[Hawriel]

Trial mechs are the standard load out for that variant of mech. MWO switched them around every so often in closed beta. Hopefully they will continue to do so.

[Folytopo]

I tried out the comstar public team speak yesterday. It makes a hugs difference having someone call out enemy teams. Lrms plus spotters were very very strong and hearing a call of "target baker" followed by a rain from 3 or 4 lrm boats was a pretty interesting sight to see. Any person who was out in the open and could be seen by scout mech would lose most of their armour. I do not think that they are broken on every map, I think that river city, frozen city and forest assault strategies exist to minimize their impacts. On caustic valley you needed to hug the 3-4 line or lip the caldera and even then groups were pretty vulnerable. The one thing I hope they add is a lrm lock on alert like in living legends.

[Storm Bringer]

I;m on under the name "xerxesking". i'm crap. still to make a kill.


stupid question of the day: do i have to sit and watch the whole match to get the C bills/XP for it, or can i quit when i die like in World of Tanks and still get the same rewards?

[Penguinizer]

I'm Penguinizer ingame. Feel free to fire me an invite.

[Hawriel]

I;m on under the name "xerxesking". i'm crap. still to make a kill.


stupid question of the day: do i have to sit and watch the whole match to get the C bills/XP for it, or can i quit when i die like in World of Tanks and still get the same rewards?

No question is stupid when honestly asked.

If you quit a match after you are killed you will get full rewards for that match. With one exception, suicides. If you suicide by an out of bounds death or possibly over heating you will be rewarded for what you have done up to that point, no end game rewards.

When you quit a game early you have to wait until the match is over before the mech you were using is available again. That goes for owned mechs I don't remember if trial mechs do this.

[Zen Master]

Other than the use of "hardpoints" to force weapons to loosely match the model (so a HBK-4G can only have ballistic weapons in the RT, even if it's not a AC/20), it uses the customization system of the board game (which was copied exactly in Mechwarrior 2). Thus, you have a massive amount of flexibility in your designs.

Aha! Really? Hm. Interesting. How is the business model? I consider WoT to be very much pay-to-win, which of course is an understandable commercial standpoint. I just find something like League of Legends less aggravating.

[The Glyphstone]

From what little I've seen, there's only one 'special edition' mech you have to spend cash on. But like WoT, MWO is very much 'buy your time' - new mechs and parts are much cheaper if you 'buy' them with Not-Money than if you buy them with Victory Money, so you have to do tons of grinding to get something 'free'.

Typical deathmatch...5-10 minutes. 85-90,000 C-bill reward for a win. A Light mech costs 1.5-2 million C-bills, an Assault mech costs 12-15 million. So that's 14 wins (20 losses) to buy the smallest mech, and 176 wins/200+ losses to buy the biggest.

[Folytopo]

I feel the grind for the cheaper lights is very reasonable. I think they need some sort of voucher or reward to get access to the assault class because it is fairly ridiculous.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I feel the grind for the cheaper lights is very reasonable. I think they need some sort of voucher or reward to get access to the assault class because it is fairly ridiculous.

So is what you can do with one...

Honestly, I rather like this. I'd probably be tooling around in a Medium mech, just because they're a good balance of speed and power. Generally, they can pound any Light mech they can catch, and can generally run from or otherwise evade Heavy and Assault mechs.

Also, how are Medium Laser Charging mechs balanced out? I seem to recall medium mechs with like eight or so medium lasers, running almost suicidally close, and blowing the heck out of anything they can close with. Heat-for-damage, ML's were the best, even if their range wasn't really spectacular.

And how are SRM's? They used to be quite powerful on the boardgame, dealing overall more damage than just about anything else at that range for that tonnage and size, and excellent crit-fishers if you soften the target up on the way in.

[Folytopo]

In the current iteration of balance medium lasers are okay for larger mechs or ones with double heat sinks. If you area fast or going to be in brawling range small lasers are better because heat is generally what stops you and small lasers are more heat efficient. If you are slower the extra range on the medium lasers can make up for it. Light mechs almost always run pure small lasers.

Srms are good, if somewhat hard to aim and they do not hit one location consistently unless you are point blank or lucky or the enemy is an assault. They feel very well designed having a niche and feeling fairly close to cannon. Streak srms are very useful in dealing with lights because they are hard to hit consistently because they can dance out of firing arcs fairly quick and you need to hold down fire on a target to do consistent damage outside of guass rifles and srm 6.

Edit: Link to all stat values thread silver you should add this to the first post

http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/27065-ohms-quick-reference-sheets-for-all-mech-hardpoints-weapons-engines-pilot-lab-images-pdfs-excel-inside/

[Silverraptor]

Edit: Link to all stat values thread silver you should add this to the first post

http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/27065-ohms-quick-reference-sheets-for-all-mech-hardpoints-weapons-engines-pilot-lab-images-pdfs-excel-inside/

And done!:smallcool:

[mangosta71]

From what's been said so far, it looks like the game is all pvp. Is that accurate, or is there also a single/multi-player campaign?

[Gnoman]

It's a multiplayer battle arena. There is no non-MP mode.

[Teron]

From what little I've seen, there's only one 'special edition' mech you have to spend cash on. But like WoT, MWO is very much 'buy your time' - new mechs and parts are much cheaper if you 'buy' them with Not-Money than if you buy them with Victory Money, so you have to do tons of grinding to get something 'free'.

Typical deathmatch...5-10 minutes. 85-90,000 C-bill reward for a win. A Light mech costs 1.5-2 million C-bills, an Assault mech costs 12-15 million. So that's 14 wins (20 losses) to buy the smallest mech, and 176 wins/200+ losses to buy the biggest.
Well, that's a turn-off. :smallsigh:

[ShneekeyTheLost]

It's a multiplayer battle arena. There is no non-MP mode.

Ergh... this significantly reduces my interest. I'd much prefer missions against AI, perhaps even team-based comp-stomp with mission objectives beyond 'turn everyone NOT on your team into scrap'.

[Erloas]

Ergh... this significantly reduces my interest. I'd much prefer missions against AI, perhaps even team-based comp-stomp with mission objectives beyond 'turn everyone NOT on your team into scrap'.

I could see why that is what you want, but I think, at least for the time being, the direction they picked is the right one. At least until the brand gets more well known again. The general simulation type games have died out all over the place. Maybe if this game does well and the Star Child game on kickstarter proves the appeal then we can see something else. They went to this game design after they couldn't get funding to make the previous game design they had which was more along the lines of the original MechWarrior games.

It just takes a lot more work to make that many AI missions, because AI missions in an arena would suck. Its also significantly harder to monetize a non-pvp game because short of having the AI cheat, its hard to get AI that is even close to as good as players. And good might not be the right term, but at least varied.
There are also objectives in the arena, currently they are just base capture. But there are a lot of other options, though I don't know what they are looking into.

And for the most part, the majority of people want to be playing with other people, and most often against other people.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I could see why that is what you want, but I think, at least for the time being, the direction they picked is the right one. At least until the brand gets more well known again. The general simulation type games have died out all over the place. Maybe if this game does well and the Star Child game on kickstarter proves the appeal then we can see something else. They went to this game design after they couldn't get funding to make the previous game design they had which was more along the lines of the original MechWarrior games.

It just takes a lot more work to make that many AI missions, because AI missions in an arena would suck. Its also significantly harder to monetize a non-pvp game because short of having the AI cheat, its hard to get AI that is even close to as good as players. And good might not be the right term, but at least varied.
There are also objectives in the arena, currently they are just base capture. But there are a lot of other options, though I don't know what they are looking into.

And for the most part, the majority of people want to be playing with other people, and most often against other people.

Eh, just pull your typical FPS setup: CTF, Deathmatch, team Deathmatch, and Hold Objectives For A Time Period. That'll be enough to get people started.

I'd also posit a cash bonus for taking down larger mechs as 'salvage rights'. So taking down a Light mech? Meh. Taking down a Medium mech? Should be worth more cash. Taking down a Heavy? Should be money. And taking down an Assault? Dude, you deserve a hefty cashy bonus for having the cajones to pull it off.

[Folytopo]

The salvage bonus is rather incidental right now. There is a major patch on November 6th addressing the economy so hold tight and see.

[Rustic Dude]

About single-player campaign.

One of the lead devs said that they'd like to do PvE content, I suppose in the form of a co-op/single player campaign similar to those of past MW titles, but first they need to develop the current PvP portion of the game. If it goes all right they will have enough funds to tackle the campaign.

[Folytopo]

Yeah, this is the best the multiplayer has ever been. Hopefully that lets them coast through to some eventual pve. It took lol nearly two years for good bots.

[Storm Bringer]

classic battletech thinking:

mechwarrior #1: hey. we have war machines that are very vunerable to high tempratures, and we can insert orbitally into any location of the planet. What sort of terrian would make a good spot to fight the defenders?

MW #2: I know! that Caustic Valley! you know, the one where our heat sinks can bearly keep up with the envrioment, much less combat heat?

MW#1: yes, thats PERFECT!


seriously, the amount of times i've been sat on that map just stareing at my target, and him at me, as we both wait for our mechs to drop below ammo cooking tempratures......

[Folytopo]

I also really dislike the map because there are areas where lrm boats can toast anything. Our strategy when I drop with eight people is to pick a light mech with tag and some missiles, generally a founders Jenner. Then me and a buddy spot the targets, the first order of business is the lrm boats destroying their scouts and then us slowly taking turns playing peekaboo over a ridge and keeping one target painted for our lrm boats.

[Silverraptor]

classic battletech thinking:

mechwarrior #1: hey. we have war machines that are very vunerable to high tempratures, and we can insert orbitally into any location of the planet. What sort of terrian would make a good spot to fight the defenders?

MW #2: I know! that Caustic Valley! you know, the one where our heat sinks can bearly keep up with the envrioment, much less combat heat?

MW#1: yes, thats PERFECT!


seriously, the amount of times i've been sat on that map just stareing at my target, and him at me, as we both wait for our mechs to drop below ammo cooking tempratures......

I think that area has strategic importance if we talk story-wise. If we talk game wise, the creators wanted a high heat induced zone to test players skill on managing high heat.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

classic battletech thinking:

mechwarrior #1: hey. we have war machines that are very vunerable to high tempratures, and we can insert orbitally into any location of the planet. What sort of terrian would make a good spot to fight the defenders?

MW #2: I know! that Caustic Valley! you know, the one where our heat sinks can bearly keep up with the envrioment, much less combat heat?

MW#1: yes, thats PERFECT!


seriously, the amount of times i've been sat on that map just stareing at my target, and him at me, as we both wait for our mechs to drop below ammo cooking tempratures......

This is where ballistic weapons really shine, so long as you don't run out of ammo or start cooking off rounds.

Also, have they done melee attacks yet? Death From Above!

[Hawriel]

classic battletech thinking:

mechwarrior #1: hey. we have war machines that are very vunerable to high tempratures, and we can insert orbitally into any location of the planet. What sort of terrian would make a good spot to fight the defenders?

MW #2: I know! that Caustic Valley! you know, the one where our heat sinks can bearly keep up with the envrioment, much less combat heat?

MW#1: yes, thats PERFECT!


seriously, the amount of times i've been sat on that map just stareing at my target, and him at me, as we both wait for our mechs to drop below ammo cooking tempratures......

You basically need to learn how to manage your heat. Every one rages about Caustic Valley yet no one complains about Frozen City.

There is an obvious reason why people are fighting on Caustic Valley. There is a refinery or geothermal plant on it. That makes it important. Also as Sneeky alluded to it's there for environmental variety, and to test the players skills.

Melee will not be in the game for a very long time. The devs want to put it in but that is a long term goal at this point. DFA will be possible when the devs rework the collision mechanics and reimplement them.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

You basically need to learn how to manage your heat. Every one rages about Caustic Valley yet no one complains about Frozen City.

There is an obvious reason why people are fighting on Caustic Valley. There is a refinery or geothermal plant on it. That makes it important. Also as Sneeky alluded to it's there for environmental variety, and to test the players skills.

Melee will not be in the game for a very long time. The devs want to put it in but that is a long term goal at this point. DFA will be possible when the devs rework the collision mechanics and reimplement them.

To be honest, I'd just as soon play on Caustic Valley more than any other. It limits the SPAM CLAN ERPPC! shenanigans. Although Gauss, if it exists in this game, would be THE answer to this. One heat, fifteen damage. And since it's the gun rather than the rounds which cook off... go ahead and throw in an extra ton of ammo.

[Folytopo]

The devs have made it so that energy weapons can be countered for the most part and ballistics are better than in the table top. The actual topography on the map strongly favours lrm boats. The reason is that the game has c3 pretty much standard on everybody and you can indirectly spot for others. What this means on the relativity open map is that you can break line of sight to big assault mechs pretty easy but a jenner with a tag will light you up.

[mangosta71]

Well yeah, C3 is a game-breaker any time it appears. It's probably the single most unbalanced item in the entire BT universe. Any time there's one piece of equipment that's so good that everyone loads it onto their 'Mech, there's a problem.

[DodgerH2O]

Playing open beta for a few days now and loving it. As someone who can't stand FPS style games, it amazes me how good this game is. Teamwork and strategy win over twitch-reflexes every time.

And for those worried about losing to people who're paying for the big mechs? My medium mech can take out an assault 1v1 almost every time (run behind them, target center torso, repeat. The turn speed on assault mechs is laughable.), it's when the big ones have buddies that it gets dangerous. Teamwork and coordination beat firepower. Admittedly a whole team of folk with founder's mechs can grind out money and max their mechs that much faster, but hey, that's what they paid for.

For anyone interested in friending/grouping, name's DodgerH2O in game :)

[Folytopo]

We occasionally get people on mumble that is described in the first post but currently there are not that many people on it. We had a few drops of 6 happen on Sunday but for the most part people looking for a full group should use teamspeak. Otherwise people could pop in mumble and find me and I could help people out a bit.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Well yeah, C3 is a game-breaker any time it appears. It's probably the single most unbalanced item in the entire BT universe. Any time there's one piece of equipment that's so good that everyone loads it onto their 'Mech, there's a problem.

In the tabletop game, it was the one thing IS had to balance the inherently superior Clan Tech.

Also, are they doing the traditional C3 with Master/Slave units, or are they doing C3i which is a free-form network? The former can be stacked to have up to 12 units in a tac-net, but taking out a Master unit will take everything 'below' it out of the tac-net. C3i, however, only permits a flat 5 per tac-net and can't be cross-connected. At least, that's how they balanced it out in the tabletop. Not sure how they do it for MWO.

[The Glyphstone]

Anyone can spot for anyone, so I guess C3i.

[Storm Bringer]

I think that area has strategic importance if we talk story-wise. If we talk game wise, the creators wanted a high heat induced zone to test players skill on managing high heat.

yhea, i know the OOC reason why, but i was under the impresssion that the standard battletech doctrine in the 3040s (late succession wars) was to fight the battle for a given objective (factory, supply dump etc) in a area near to, but not on, the objective, to prevent the mechs destorying the objective in the process of capturing it, as often happened in the 1st and 2nd Succession Wars.

i was just ranting a little. Now i've upgraded my COM 1D with double heat sinks, it's much more effective (the old one had chronic heat problems).

as it stands, I've onyl got one personal mech (as opposed to trial mech), my modded COM 1D, with a ER large laser and 2 streak SRM-2s and double heat sinks. i find the streaks much easier to use than the standard srms, as i always missed with them.

i'm temped to downrate the engine and try and free up tonnage for an AMS, but i don't think it will work (i'll loose the freed tonnage to the hink sinks no longer installed in the engine, i think)

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Anyone can spot for anyone, so I guess C3i.

Anyone could spot with classic C3, but it's a matter of heirarchy...

For example, a C3 Master unit was 5 tons and 5 crits. A C3 Slave unit was 1 ton and 1 crit. Each C3 Master unit could have up to 3 slaves. A mech could have both a master and a slave and connect to a larger network and have his squad also hooked up to it. It could be nested three tiers.

Thus, squad formations were like this:

Command Squad: 1 Commander (1 master unit), three Lieutenants (each with a Slave set to the Commander and a Master)

9x Squads: 1 Sargent (one slave unit set to his LT and one master unit) and 3x Squaddies (1 slave unit set to the Sgt.)

This means, you have the CO, 3 LT's, 9 Sergants, and 27 squaddies all in the tac-net.

Any of these mechs could sight off of any other mech in the system.

However, take out a Sargent mech, and that whole squad drops out of the tac net. Take out a Lieutenant, and his squads go independent. They can sight off of other squad-mates, but are no longer hooked up to the rest of the unit. Take out the CO, and all of the LT's become independent of each other.

So it's quite a potent network, but taking out a mech with a C3 Master unit drops other mechs out of the network.

Plus, yanno, the fact that the C3 Master unit takes up 5 tons and 5 crits. That's more than a PPC, by the way.

It seems like they're cheesing the C3 by giving them effective C3i without the hard-cap of 5 mechs per net. Quite potent.

[mangosta71]

In the tabletop game, it was the one thing IS had to balance the inherently superior Clan Tech.
You mean other than Battle Value, which typically meant that IS players were fielding roughly twice the tonnage of Clan opponents? Which is why a star would face a company, a trinary would be up against a battalion, a cluster against a regiment...

Plus, yanno, the fact that the C3 Master unit takes up 5 tons and 5 crits. That's more than a PPC, by the way.
More space, but less tonnage. A C3 master combined with a C3 slave is still less tonnage than a PPC, unless you're cheesing by mounting Clan weaponry on an Inner Sphere 'Mech. But if you're using Clan tech, you don't need C3 networks to "balance" things.

Maybe I'm misremembering, or maybe it's an older version of the rules, but I recall C3 networks being company-size at most, with the company commander having two master units, lance commanders having one master unit, and each other member of the company having a slave.

Also, by the boardgame rules, you can be a spotter for indirect LRM fire without C3 or TAG. It's just that nobody ever does that because the modifiers for indirect fire are horrendous, to the point that there is literally no chance of hitting.

[Hawriel]

No C3 is not in the game. Calling the shared active target data C3 is false.

The targeting system used in MWO is no different than the normal spotting rule use in TT. A mech only shares target info that it is actively targeting. Nothing more. The sensors in MWO relay basic target information. Unite ID, damage levels, location, and heading. This is good enough to spot for indirect fire and call out targets for focus fire.

A C3 network actively links targeting computers in a network. It would also share information on all targets detected by a mech not just actively focused on by the pilot.

A true C3 system is yet to come.

Edit
Oh and yes there are gauss rifles in the game. People love to cry about the 'gauss cat' A catapult K2 with two gauss rifles. Even though it can run out of ammo, is easy prey to faster mechs, needs an XL engine, is slower than the standard catapult, you can use terrain to block LOS so you can get close, the rifles are mounted on the lower torso so it needs to expose the whole mech in order to fire, and team work.

[Folytopo]

Yeah, I guess you are right about that, but the shared targeting data is so accurate I would hate to see a team that gets even more accurate lrms.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

You mean other than Battle Value, which typically meant that IS players were fielding roughly twice the tonnage of Clan opponents? Which is why a star would face a company, a trinary would be up against a battalion, a cluster against a regiment...Long before BV was invented, son, this was the equalizer.


Maybe I'm misremembering, or maybe it's an older version of the rules, but I recall C3 networks being company-size at most, with the company commander having two master units, lance commanders having one master unit, and each other member of the company having a slave.Mmm... yea, you're right, something like a twelve mech limit. There were two configurations, one did have a CO with two Masters.


Also, by the boardgame rules, you can be a spotter for indirect LRM fire without C3 or TAG. It's just that nobody ever does that because the modifiers for indirect fire are horrendous, to the point that there is literally no chance of hitting.Yea, until TAG, semi-guided missiles, and C3 came together, this tactic was worthless. With them, however, it was awesome.

However, you needed Semi-Guided missiles for TAG to ping for them, which meant NOT having Artemis.

[mangosta71]

Long before BV was invented, son, this was the equalizer.
I thought that the first incarnation of BV predated C3. I know that the concept of BV was hinted at in the first novels I read, even though it wasn't explicitly stated as such or given a name...

Mmm... yea, you're right, something like a twelve mech limit. There were two configurations, one did have a CO with two Masters.
I didn't know there were two configurations. It's kind of neat that you have options. The nested one you described would also make it far easier to design a number of different Mechs (and not have them be Omnis or custom variants) so that you can outfit different units with the same designs without forcing the commanders into the same Mechs.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I thought that the first incarnation of BV predated C3. I know that the concept of BV was hinted at in the first novels I read, even though it wasn't explicitly stated as such or given a name...Really? I hadn't heard of BV until after Wiz Kidz bought out the franchise.


I didn't know there were two configurations. It's kind of neat that you have options. The nested one you described would also make it far easier to design a number of different Mechs (and not have them be Omnis or custom variants) so that you can outfit different units with the same designs without forcing the commanders into the same Mechs.

The two options are:

Company-level Master
Master +3 slaves
Master +3 slaves
Master +2 slaves (because of the 12-unit limit)

Dual-Master unit + 3 slaves
Master +3 slaves
Master +3 slaves

Apparently they let the Master unit also function as a Slave unit, saves a ton and a crit on each of the Lance Commander mechs.

[mangosta71]

Really? I hadn't heard of BV until after Wiz Kidz bought out the franchise.
It wasn't called BV. The Clan custom of bidding meant that they were imposing a limit on their own forces so they wouldn't drastically outclass the opposition. Which in turn means that the characters in-universe were aware of just how much better Clan equipment was than that possessed by the IS. Bidding was part of the universe from the first novels I read (those being the Legend of the Jade Phoenix trilogy).

It's kind of stupid, really. Any commander with half a brain knows that you don't voluntarily reduce the forces you're committing to battle "just to make it fair". You go in with everything you've got and you crush your opposition with overwhelming force. The Clans turned war into a children's game. That's why they lost.

[Silverraptor]

Oh hey Mangosta. What a pleasant surprise to see you here.:smallsmile:

[tyckspoon]

Yeah, I guess you are right about that, but the shared targeting data is so accurate I would hate to see a team that gets even more accurate lrms.

I'm not playing yet, but it sounds like they'd have to dial back the standard LRMs a bit before introducing more accurate versions would be balanced. I would hope they do; it would be nice to have a role for mechs with TAG or NARC gear, which seems to be completely unneeded right now if everybody can passively spot for accurate indirect fire. Reduce the accuracy of indirect LRMs, introduce a new LRM ammo load that has the old accuracy but much higher heat/fewer rounds per ton, and if you want the high accuracy + better heat/ammo control, you need a dedicated spotter mech to light targets for you, not just let you know where they are.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

It wasn't called BV. The Clan custom of bidding meant that they were imposing a limit on their own forces so they wouldn't drastically outclass the opposition. Which in turn means that the characters in-universe were aware of just how much better Clan equipment was than that possessed by the IS. Bidding was part of the universe from the first novels I read (those being the Legend of the Jade Phoenix trilogy).

It's kind of stupid, really. Any commander with half a brain knows that you don't voluntarily reduce the forces you're committing to battle "just to make it fair". You go in with everything you've got and you crush your opposition with overwhelming force. The Clans turned war into a children's game. That's why they lost.

Of course it's stupid. That's the point.

When Kerinski told the Star League to insert their decadence into an opaque orifice, complete with linear measurements on how far to insert it, he created a culture based on Honor above all else. His decedents took that and codified it.

Think about it like Tournament Fencing. You have 'right of way' and 'legal target zones' and such... things that will get you killed in a back alley. Mech warfare for the Clans became stylized. They fenced in tournaments.

The Inner Sphere? Had a much bigger industrial base, and knew better than to play fair.

I was able to fend off equal tonnage of Clan with IS, but it required a particular type of tactics, and the knowledge that you WILL lose mechs. It's more a war of attrition, where all of your mechs focus-fire on opponent mechs, dropping one or two at a time then going to the next target. It also absolutely demands controlling lines of fire and lines of sight. This can include using terrain to deny Clan's superior range to generating your own line of sight blockage, such as using Flamers to start fires in hexes.

Even then, it's by no means guaranteed, but at least then you have a chance. And even if you are defeated? You will cost the Clans so many pilots and mechs that their victory will by Pyhrric.

Remember these words, and you too can also face Clans on relatively equal footing:

* Ejecting mech pilots make great target practice, and you can use the ballistic trajectory to refine your targeting computers. Confirmed mech pilot kills are equal to confirmed mech kills.

* Cheesy is not an insult, it is a job description

* If the surviving Clanners leave the field cursing your name... you did something right

* If you traded equal weight in losses... you are winning.

* If they are dumb enough to charge... be smart enough to have a proper reception for them.

* Fires cause smoke, which blocks Line of Sight, which negates Clan's range advantage.

* The closer you force them to close to engage you, the greater the odds of returning a favorable weight of fire.

* If you are in a fair fight, you've already done screwed up.

* Basic math: C3 + TAG + Semi-Guided LRM's + Arrow IV launchers = fun times.

* Your job is not to live. Your job is to take out as many of those guys as possible before buying it. Your family will be well taken care of, we assure you. But the more Clanners you take out, the less likely they are to reach your family in the first place.

* Focus Fire and Melee are just plain good sense.

* Crit-fishing is fun.

[Hawriel]

It wasn't called BV. The Clan custom of bidding meant that they were imposing a limit on their own forces so they wouldn't drastically outclass the opposition. Which in turn means that the characters in-universe were aware of just how much better Clan equipment was than that possessed by the IS. Bidding was part of the universe from the first novels I read (those being the Legend of the Jade Phoenix trilogy).

It's kind of stupid, really. Any commander with half a brain knows that you don't voluntarily reduce the forces you're committing to battle "just to make it fair". You go in with everything you've got and you crush your opposition with overwhelming force. The Clans turned war into a children's game. That's why they lost.

Dude that is not right at all.

This is how a bachal works.

A clan has a goal. It could be the conquest of a planet. The capturing of recourse, or a trial of possession. Clan forces go to said planet that has what they want. The over all commander of the attacking force introduces his himself to the defending commander. He then asks what forces the defender will use. The attacking commander then turns to his direct subordinate officers to bid for the right to attack.

The officers then pronounce what forces they will use to attain the goal. Each officer tries to out bid the others by claiming a smaller force than the others. the one who wins gets the right to attack, with the forces of his original bid being allowed as reinforcements if he needs them. however much honor is lost if he does use them.

The clans do this for many reasons. The first and oldest reason is waist. Clans hate to waist resources. Kerensky's forces suffered much hardship after they left the IS. Using what is necessary with out being excessive became apart of clan culture from this. The clans being created into a warrior cast culture is the second biggest reason. Which comes down to honor.

A warrior gains more honor when he/she can use just enough force to meat a goal. The less a warrior uses the more honor they earn. The higher the honor the more renown the more renown the higher in rank and cultural status the warrior has.

A true clan warrior will always seek out a challenge. That is why they bid. It is a cultural mind set. No clan warrior will ever go easy on an enemy. A clan warrior is driven be the belief that as a warrior he out classes any one he may come against. The only way to gain a clan warriors respect his though honorable acts, and fighing so skillfully and hard you earn his respect.

[Folytopo]

Well, if making it fair is not the point of a Bachal it is an unintended consequence either way. By bidding down to use less forces the commanders are trying to still have a winning force but only by the smallest of margins. In the fog of war and against Hance Davion these tactics are failure.

[mangosta71]

Dude that is not right at all.

This is how a bachal works.

A clan has a goal. It could be the conquest of a planet. The capturing of recourse, or a trial of possession. Clan forces go to said planet that has what they want. The over all commander of the attacking force introduces his himself to the defending commander. He then asks what forces the defender will use. The attacking commander then turns to his direct subordinate officers to bid for the right to attack.

The officers then pronounce what forces they will use to attain the goal. Each officer tries to out bid the others by claiming a smaller force than the others. the one who wins gets the right to attack, with the forces of his original bid being allowed as reinforcements if he needs them. however much honor is lost if he does use them.
You're right. It's even stupider than offering a fair fight - you're intentionally trying to stack the odds against yourself.

The clans do this for many reasons. The first and oldest reason is waist. Clans hate to waist resources. Kerensky's forces suffered much hardship after they left the IS. Using what is necessary with out being excessive became apart of clan culture from this. The clans being created into a warrior cast culture is the second biggest reason. Which comes down to honor.
Which is ridiculous. Overwhelming force minimizes your own losses, which reduces waste, which is supposedly the objective. This is basic strategy. Anyone that's completed any sort of officer training should know this.

For example, suppose I have 200 guys and you have 10. I can hold back 190 of mine so the fight is even (of course, if I'm stupid, ie a Clan warrior, I'll probably only send 7 against your 10), and even if I win I'm probably gonna lose at least half of the guys I send. Or I can send in all of my guys and they'll kill all of yours before I lose more than one or two.

The only time you send the minimum force necessary to get the job done is when you're covering a retreat - in that case you know that anything you send is gonna get taken out so you send just enough to allow the rest of your forces to get away.

A warrior gains more honor when he/she can use just enough force to meat a goal. The less a warrior uses the more honor they earn. The higher the honor the more renown the more renown the higher in rank and cultural status the warrior has.

A true clan warrior will always seek out a challenge. That is why they bid. It is a cultural mind set. No clan warrior will ever go easy on an enemy. A clan warrior is driven be the belief that as a warrior he out classes any one he may come against. The only way to gain a clan warriors respect his though honorable acts, and fighing so skillfully and hard you earn his respect.
The problem with that culture is you've created a race of people that would rather die honorably than live in victory. A society cannot last if its most valuable members are constantly attempting suicide.

[The Glyphstone]

All good reasons for why the Clans, in-story, lost the Clan Wars. They built all those crazy honor rules to avoid wiping themselves out during their long exile and when they came back to the Inner Sphere, found their superior tech couldn't overcome the self-hamstringing of their culture.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

The problem with that culture is you've created a race of people that would rather die honorably than live in victory. A society cannot last if its most valuable members are constantly attempting suicide.

Perhaps not, but they will be remembered throughout history. See also: Sparta. Some three hundred guys stalled an army of thousands. An impressive feat... ultimately suicidal, Sparta was wiped out as a city-state, but while they lived... they shined.

[Hawriel]

The clans are not stupid. What I posted above is a very general description of their basic culture. Each clan branches off from there in their own why.

One thing they do have in common though is that if you prove that you do not follow traditional warfare, as they see it, then all bets are off. They will go out of their way to grind you under heal.

Clan Wolf is one of the most adaptable clans. They understand group tactics and how to fight long term wars. better than most of the other clans any way. This is why they where the only clan to capture their objective on Tukayyid. It was not just Phelan's influence. It was Ulric Kerensky and other leaders with in the wolf clan.

Hell's Horses under stand combined arms. They field the largest conventional ground forces out of all the clans. That is tanks and artillery.

Jade Falcon is one of the most dogmatic when it comes to the traditions of clan culture. However their skill in warfare backs that up. They achieved one of their two goals on Tukayyid.

Smoke Jaguar are ruthless, they can almost be as traditional minded as the Jade Falcons. However their brutality made it easier to brake from ritualistic warfare and started raising cities from orbit.

Snow Raven have a high understanding of space warfare. They also have large trade networks. They understand survival and politics.

Ghost Bear are methodical in their approach. They also attained one objective at tukayyid.

What you fail to understand in the clans mind the whole invasion was a trial. When the Inner Sphere leadership finally understood that, they used that cultural mind set to halt the invasion. The Inner Sphere was desperate. The clans where winning up to that point. The invasion might have slowed down but it was not stopping.

The clans do understand over whelming force. They do understand total warfare. They just seldom use it because of the whole sale destruction. Clan Wolverine, and Widow Maker are good examples of this. When Jade Falcon destroyed clan Wolf their where no bachals, and zelbrigen was all but ignored.

The clans are not stupid. An enemy really can only get away with unclan like warfare for so long before they consider you beneath honor and it does not apply.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

What you fail to understand in the clans mind the whole invasion was a trial. When the Inner Sphere leadership finally understood that, they used that cultural mind set to halt the invasion. The Inner Sphere was desperate. The clans where winning up to that point. The invasion might have slowed down but it was not stopping.

Wrong.

The invasion of the Inner Sphere was a Jihad. A purification of all they perceived to be weak and dishonorable in the galaxy. The revenge of Kerensky. The literal reason the Clans were founded to begin with.

The Clans took early victories through technological superiority. Once the IS figured out their tactics, it was used against them to significant effect.

The clans are not stupid, no. But they are also constrained by dogma and ritual. When you stage a retreat, you can bet your final round in the bin that they will pursue. Why? Because it is like waving a red flag in front of a bull. Because while they have tactical proficiency, they have the strategic sense of an ignorant barbarian. They are not soldiers, they are warriors. Davion and the rest of the Inner Sphere demonstrated the difference.

[Hawriel]

No it was not a jihad.

It was a crusade. That was run in the form of a trial. The invading clans had to win the right to actually be one of the clans to invade. The first clan to capture Terra would be the dominant clan militarily, politically, and most likely culturally.

The trial was not against the inner sphere. It was amongst themselves. It true they think that the IS is barbaric and decedent. That they would bring order. In that aspect it was a crusade. Hens the term crusader clans. A political and philosophical conviction. Their opposition are wardens.

[mangosta71]

A jihad is a crusade. A crusade is a jihad. The only distinction between the two words is semantic. Given a setting in which neither of the religions that give rise to that semantic distinction exists, such as the BT universe, even that flimsy distinction evaporates.

Also, the Clans had Trials amongst themselves to win the right to be in the invading forces. Those were completed before they departed from their home worlds. The invasion itself was not a Trial.

Also also, the Jade Falcons did not achieve either of their objectives on Tukayyid. They were awarded a draw due to the amount of damage they inflicted on the ComStar forces (see Falcon Guard).

Also also also, the destruction of Clan Wolf was a Trial of Grievance that was retroactively deemed a Trial of Annihilation, and then that got overturned in another Trial of Grievance (see Bred for War and Malicious Intent).

I'd appreciate it if you stopped telling me that I don't know what I'm talking about.

[Hawriel]

No they are not the same. It is ignorance of both cultures to say that.

The culture of the battletech universe is human. With all historical culturel influences. Hans Davion is catholic by the way. Islam is alive and well in many parts of the inner sphere.

This is my final point on this particular topic. To go any farther will violate the rules of conduct.


Nov. 6 had a large patch, with a hot patch to follow on the 8th. What do the stick board mechwarriors think of them?

[Folytopo]

The first patch made the flight path of lrms very good. They were very hard to avoid needing very tall vertical cover. If there was a tag jenner on you, and there was not a cave or bridge to hide in you were going to explode. The Nov 8th patch nerfed the flight path and damage. They are now able to be dodge and are still very good at softening up assaults and with artemis the spread is good. They are now longer the one true weapon. A variety of lasers were not generating enough heat and the bug with double heat sinks was fixed. It means lasers are less good in general now. Those autocannons and Gauss are looking might fine right now.

[mangosta71]

I don't recall any mention of religion outside the weird Liao setup.

Anyway:

jihad - noun
1. a holy war undertaken as a sacred duty by Muslims.
2. any vigorous, emotional crusade for an idea or principle.

crusade - noun
1. (often initial capital letter ) any of the military expeditions undertaken by the Christians of Europe in the 11th, 12th, and 13th centuries for the recovery of the Holy Land from the Muslims.
2. any war carried on under papal sanction.
3. any vigorous, aggressive movement for the defense or advancement of an idea, cause, etc.
I was assuming that you were using the third definition that appears here for crusade. Note that it's exactly the same as the second definition given for jihad. This is what I was referring to when I said that the only difference is semantic. I did not realize that using accepted definitions of the two terms constituted cultural ignorance.

I also realized that the last line of my previous post probably came across as more harsh than I intended. I had the impression that you simply assumed that I knew nothing of the Clan system when I was criticizing it. But I criticize it because I know how it works (and it simply makes no sense for it to work that way other than author fiat). The people writing the novels wanted the underdogs to win, so they put a stupid, ridiculous, unrealistic handicap on the group that should have crushed their opposition without breaking stride.

Alexander Kerensky was a soldier, as were his followers. As such, they should have understood both strategy and tactics and passed that knowledge on to future generations. It makes no ****ing sense for the society that grew out of the Exodus to evolve into what the Clans became. The Clans should have been militaristic and bureaucratic (ie, a police state). They should have de-emphasized individual achievements in favor of unit commendations - there should have been elite units rather than units made up of elite individuals.

[Philistine]

If you're bringing realism into it, the entire setting is going to break down long before you get to the Clan rules of combat. :smallamused:

Religion is absolutely A Thing within the Inner Sphere. Most notably, the whole ComStar/Word of Blake thing was nothing if not religious; but there are occasional glimpses in the fiction of traditional, current-day religions as well. And some of the sourcebooks go into more detail about who ended up where in the human colonization of space. Among the Clans, though? Not so much - the Nova Cats have their mystic visions, and (IIRC) every Clan has its own version of The Remembrance, and that seems to be about it. I don't recall ever seeing so much as a mention of any contemporary religion in Clan society, certainly not among the dominant Warrior caste. And Clan culture, specifically that of the Clan Warrior caste, is the relevant context for the "crusade" vs "jihad" debate.

[Storm Bringer]

to bring the thread back towards the game and off it's fluff, what do the Playgrounders think of the accouncement that the next 'mech added to the roster is to be the Blackjack?

[9mm]

to bring the thread back towards the game and off it's fluff, what do the Playgrounders think of the accouncement that the next 'mech added to the roster is to be the Blackjack?

2 reactions:
1: is it the omni? (unlikely given that innersphere omnis are in universe decades off)
2: pray the variants are available. cause base Blackjacks are terrible.



Alexander Kerensky was a soldier, as were his followers. As such, they should have understood both strategy and tactics and passed that knowledge on to future generations. It makes no ****ing sense for the society that grew out of the Exodus to evolve into what the Clans became. The Clans should have been militaristic and bureaucratic (ie, a police state). They should have de-emphasized individual achievements in favor of unit commendations - there should have been elite units rather than units made up of elite individuals.
Kerensky might have been a soldier... but ambition is not magicly removed from someone when they join the military; and given the sheer barbarity of the pentagon wars I'm not suprised in the slightest

[Storm Bringer]

2 reactions:
1: is it the omni? (unlikely given that innersphere omnis are in universe decades off)
2: pray the variants are available. cause base Blackjacks are terrible.


Kerensky might have been a soldier... but ambition is not magicly removed from someone when they join the military; and given the sheer barbarity of the pentagon wars I'm not suprised in the slightest

well, the version featured was in a short story and was explictly stated to be a customised mech with twin UAC/5s and quad medium lasers, which sounds like it must be based off the standard BJ-1 model (with the popgun AC/2s). however. every mech they have released so far has had it's pre-3050 variants released as well, so we can expect to see the upgraded variants as well. of the variants on the battletech wiki, only the Civil War era BJ4 is beyond the tech base seen in the game so far. If i remember correctly, the ER LL/ Streak SRM2 armed BJ2 was built in the 3050's, but you could make it with the 3049 tech in game. it will be intresting to see if they put that model in the game.

[Hawriel]

I also realized that the last line of my previous post probably came across as more harsh than I intended. I had the impression that you simply assumed that I knew nothing of the Clan system when I was criticizing it. But I criticize it because I know how it works (and it simply makes no sense for it to work that way other than author fiat). The people writing the novels wanted the underdogs to win, so they put a stupid, ridiculous, unrealistic handicap on the group that should have crushed their opposition without breaking stride.





2 reactions:
1: is it the omni? (unlikely given that innersphere omnis are in universe decades off)
2: pray the variants are available. cause base Blackjacks are terrible.


No it will not be an omni.

The blackjack will be the original plus at least two or all of these variants.
In MWO these will be effective.



BJ-1DB - The 1DB Blackjack is a variant intended to increase the 'Mech's lethality. The two autocannons have been replaced with two Large Lasers and several heat sinks have been added to the design to handle the extra heat load.

BJ-1DC - The 1DC Blackjack sacrifices the 'Mech's jumping ability in order to add two Small Lasers and additional heat sinks to deal with the additional heat load.

BJ-2 - The BJ-2 upgrade of the Blackjack upgrades the 'Mech with two Diverse Optics Sunbeam ER Large Lasers and four Hovertec Streak SRM-2 launchers. This variant also upgrades the heat sinks to double strength versions.

BJ-3 - The St. Ives Compact upgraded their Blackjacks to this configuration when they were still a part of the Capellan Confederation, during the Fourth Succession War. The 'Mechs carry two Ceres Arms Smasher PPCs and four Medium Lasers and used double heat sinks to dissipate the extra heat. The majority of the BJ-3 models were turned over to the Federated Suns by the Compact after the Fourth Succession War.


Quoted from sarna.net.

The AC2 is a rather effective long range support weapon in MWO. Not only does it have a high DPS it's long range makes it a very effective long range harassment weapon for LRM boats and other snipers. Pairing them together then chain firing them is a common set up.

Out side of enhancing the origional variants with endo steel and XL engines to make up for the low armor and speed I see other player configurations that will be popular; Taking out the AC2s and putting in a gauss rifles or UAC5. A pair of AC5/UAC5s. 6 medium laser or small laser boat. A laser boat with two streak 2s as a light mech killer. This will be made effective by players.



The first patch made the flight path of lrms very good.


No that patch broke the LRMs massively. The flight path was be biggest reason that it needed to be changed. We had the same problem in closed beta and it was finally changed about three weeks before open beta. Almost all of the closed beta testers agreed that LRM worked perfectly. Until the Nov. 6 patch.

The problem with that patch is that it rolled backed the changes previously made and then some. The ninety degree dive made it impossible to find cover. It also caused the missile to rip out back armor when they should be hitting front. Thus killing mechs allot faster than they should. Not to mention the very high chance of destroying the head. Although dieing by having your back ripped out was more likely. The flight path needed to be changed back.

However I think it is not as it was. The missile grouping seem a little to lose and the end flight path dive seems shallower then before the Nov. 6th patch. That could just be my perception. It working very close to what it should be right now. I do think that the damage needs to be increased from 1.7 to 1.8.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

The AC2 is a rather effective long range support weapon in MWO. Not only does it have a high DPS it's long range makes it a very effective long range harassment weapon for LRM boats and other snipers. Pairing them together then chain firing them is a common set up.Wait, what? Okay, this must be a *MASSIVE* change, because AC/2 has the LOWEST DPS of any weapon in the boardgame.

[Erloas]

The concept of DPS just doesn't work in the context of a turn based game.
I think though that the MWO online version is probably closer to the canon/novel use of the AC/2s, I just think that the way the TT was done originally didn't make the flaws of the AC/2 really apparent until it was too late to change them.

[Folytopo]

Yeah, I meant good for LRM users. The thing about the AC 2 is that it's damage is still roughly 2 per shot, it just has a high cycle time so it's dps is actually more like 4. Which is really high. A medium laser has 1.25. They also cause cockpit rock.

Although the ac brings us to another problem. What does the thread think about burst builds. Builds that are designed to cripple someone in one alpha. I know that the mpl Awesome could do something like that it beta. 8 Medium pulse lasers to quickly kill or cripple a mech.

It seems really hard to alpha anything that has been up armoured. I they are fighting 1v1 it almost seems like some mechs could take up to one full minute to actually kill each other.

[DodgerH2O]

Personally I haven't seen any issues with 'burst' builds, but of the 3 mechs I use, only my Light has less than max armor, and even when it was maxxed it'd get cored by a good strike from a gausscat. Seems to me that drawn out combat is the norm, even when my Medium gets cut off and surrounded it takes a few weapon cycles (usually) before it goes down.

Having said that, I was grouped with two hunchbacks loaded down with small lasers and MPLs and those things could strip a mech into pieces pretty fast.

I have my own question, what do folk think of PPCs and ER PPCs? I got an Awesome for the PPC, and found lasers superior in almost every way (except stealth, really)

[NeoVid]

According to people who have run the numbers for the current patch, the PPC is about even with the AC/20 for least useful weapon in the game. If you want a weapon that damaging, the Gauss is far better, and if you focus on energy, the large pulse laser is the clear winner on damage, with the small and medium laser being the most efficient weapons as things stand.

[Hawriel]

The AC20 is far from useless. I use it to great effect in my hunchback and atlas.

The problem with PPC is that they have a slightly to large hit area, and they act like a ballistic weapon. You have to lead the target a little bit closer than a gauss rifle. With the some lag and hit box issue it can get frustrating.

Also if its an arm mounted weapon trying to lead in a close in turning brawl can be difficult. I've actually missed a target 20m in front of me and TKed a team mate behind it when i was brawling with a ER PPC.

The strengths of the PPC and ER PPC is that it is 7 tons, 3 critical slots and does not use ammo. They also are a good sniper weapon. The key is heat management, positioning and lead time. I've used them on the awesome, centurion, catapult K2, and raven with good results.

[Gnoman]

Do they still have the issue with the light mechs teleporting? That really killed the game for me in the closed beta. (That and the random extra engines).

[NeoVid]

Never heard of that issue, and I've been running a Jenner for weeks now.

[DodgerH2O]

Do they still have the issue with the light mechs teleporting? That really killed the game for me in the closed beta. (That and the random extra engines).

What do you mean teleporting? I saw a light (Jenner) do a weird... "shuffle" yesterday. Like it would take two steps, freeze, then teleport a few steps ahead. Did this for at least 50-80 meters as I was trying to get a good shot for my SRMs. I think I tried lasering it and despite being on the image of the mech no damage was registered.

[Folytopo]

Rubber banding can still be an issue. It was reduced recently. For the most part it is rarely a problem.

[mangosta71]

What do you mean teleporting? I saw a light (Jenner) do a weird... "shuffle" yesterday. Like it would take two steps, freeze, then teleport a few steps ahead. Did this for at least 50-80 meters as I was trying to get a good shot for my SRMs. I think I tried lasering it and despite being on the image of the mech no damage was registered.
Every time I've seen something like this in an online game, the culprit was lag. Probably on his end if everything else on your screen was moving smoothly. About the only way to hit a target like that is to position yourself for a zero deflection shot.

[Hawriel]

Do they still have the issue with the light mechs teleporting? That really killed the game for me in the closed beta. (That and the random extra engines).

This is primarily a lag issue, it usually happens when high ping rates are involved. One of the main reasons why the collision mechanics were deactivated was because of the blinking in and out of mechs during stand up animations. The has improved with each patch that address' performence.

The extra engine bug was fixed well before I got into closed beta.

[Gnoman]

Yeah, that's the issue I was referring to. I found it almost impossible to hit lights when I played because they were only "present" for seconds at a time. Glad to hear that's improved somewhat.

[The Glyphstone]

This being the apparent de facto Battletech universe thread, anyone have recommendations for where to start (and end) with the published novels?

[Rustic Dude]

I'd say the Warrior Trilogy is a great introduction to the universe, coupled with the Gray Death Legion Trilogy. Then you've got Wolves on the Border, Heir of the Dragon, and the Blood of Kerensky Trilogy.

Finally, you've got the Twilight of the Clans series, but quality drops somewhat there.

[Philistine]

This being the apparent de facto Battletech universe thread, anyone have recommendations for where to start (and end) with the published novels?

In general terms, Michael Stackpole's (the same one who wrote the first few Star Wars: X-Wing novels) books formed the backbone of the setting's Canon for years. The aforementioned Warrior and Blood of Kerensky trilogies were both his, and he contributed a couple of volumes to the Twilight of the Clans series.

[iyaerP]

Just posting to say to add DarthLocutus onto the player list.

As for the PPCs? The real problem with them comes from the way that piranah implemented fire rate and heat sinks. The effective fire rate of all in game mechs is triple what it is on the tabletop, but heatsink effectiveness remains unchanged, resulting in mechs that should be highly heat efficient (the PPC awesome in particular) being terribly inefficient in MWO.

As for the teleporting jenners? That was mostly a netcode thing, and is a lot better than it used to be.

[Erloas]

The PPC based Awesomes are heat efficient? They are one of the worst designs in terms of heat generation for a lot of larger 'Mechs. At least in the earlier designs.
I haven't checked it at all in MWO, but in the TT game you can't move and fire all 3 PPCs without jumping up the heat chart a decent amount. Although it is true that the heat scale works very different between the two games, in that it is much easier to have sustained fire with a large variety of weapons in the TT game without ever moving up the heat scale. On other hand cooking off your own ammo bins and many of the targeting and piloting negatives of heat generation and much less severe in MWO then in the TT game. Having all weapons cycle at the 6 second turn rate to match the TT game would make heat much less of an issue, though it wouldn't make for a much less enjoyable computer game.

[mangosta71]

I believe there's a variant of the Awesome that utilizes double heat sinks with standard PPCs. It's the only one I can think of that can sustain fire from all 3 without cooking the pilot (in TT).

[Gnoman]

If you're restricted to level 1 tech, then having any unit that can repeatedly fire 2 PPCs is pretty good, and having a third PPC for crunch damage (or continuous fire at a slower rate, such as firing the third every 3 turns) is even better. The 3025 Awesome is one of the better Level 1 assualt mechs.

[otakuryoga]

If you're restricted to level 1 tech, then having any unit that can repeatedly fire 2 PPCs is pretty good, and having a third PPC for crunch damage (or continuous fire at a slower rate, such as firing the third every 3 turns) is even better. The 3025 Awesome is one of the better Level 1 assualt mechs.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8ebektHwy1rziwwco1_500.png
except you could fire 3-3-2 if standing still and not get a heat penaly 8)

the basic Awesome was just as its name implied :smallcool:

[Erloas]

Yeah, the Awesome is a very good 'Mech, I was never trying to say it wasn't. But it wasn't exactly a heat efficient design. The Awesome design in particular was really bad about going with the "turrettech" style of play. There are a lot of worse designs for sure.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Yeah, the Awesome is a very good 'Mech, I was never trying to say it wasn't. But it wasn't exactly a heat efficient design. The Awesome design in particular was really bad about going with the "turrettech" style of play. There are a lot of worse designs for sure.

The old Catapult was, in my opinion, a downgrade from the Archer, which at least had a pair of LRM/20's, but the LRM 15's of a Catapult weren't too bad. Decent missileboat support mech.

The Hunchback was a twisted mech, with an insanely powerful gun he almost never gets to fire. Just as well, since you sneeze and it runs itself dry. But the Hunchback was, bar none, the best way to make a mech back the heck up, because NO ONE wanted to get inside 6 with that thing. Even Assaults preferred to deal with it at a more respectable distance.. like say 10+ hexes... just to be sure. After all, a weapon that can blow the head off of a mech in one shot is something which commands respect... because there's always that chance of box cars (goes to a one in six when aiming at the punch hit location table) which any mech pilot keeps in mind.

The Aweseome.... pretty much lived up to the name. Being able to lay down two PPC's reliably, and even 3 in a pinch if you get someone locked up in medium or close range, is something that no mech wants to tangle with. And because it's an energy weapon, there's really no reason to NOT fire conservatively, just on the off hand chance of landing something.

The Panther... well, there's a reason it was nicknamed the Alleycat. Like the Hunchback, it's got a huge honkin' weapon for its tonnage. Unlike the Hunchback, however, it's got some jump jets for maneuverability and a decently ranged weapon. It really thrives in urban settings, being able to get alley shots. Jumping onto or behind buildings to block LoS gave it some survivability, which was necessary considering it's sub-par armor.

I'm wanting to say it was the Locust which was the 35 ton mech with 2x SRM/6's? While many would scoff at a scout mech with a purely missile-based armament, it was surprisingly effective on patrol to take out other light mechs. It had decent armor for a light mech, and those SRM's really HURT when they hit a light mech. While it has a potential 24 damage output from a single volley, that is almost never realized, due to how SRM's work (remember, this is 3025, before Streaks were invented). However, when you only had 4-6 points of armor in any given location, those two points added up pretty damn quickly. They were also NOT something an already heavily damaged mech wanted to see, SRM's 'sandblasting' is generally sub-par as a main weapon, due to being unable to punch through thick armor, but if you had a few hit locations which were either weak or blown through already... that very same sandblasting means you've got a solid chance of hitting that weak location with at least one missile... which gets real unpleasant when you start rolling on the crit charts...

[otakuryoga]

Yeah, the Awesome is a very good 'Mech, I was never trying to say it wasn't. But it wasn't exactly a heat efficient design. The Awesome design in particular was really bad about going with the "turrettech" style of play. There are a lot of worse designs for sure.

but the Awesome IS a heat efficient design
it can alpha strike and have NO heat induced penalties the next turn
most mechs (medium and up) go to at LEAST the first penaly slot on heat scale after alpha strike

judging by your earlier post i think you mean the PPC is not very heat efficient..which is true
but the Awesome sacrifices a heavier weapon loadout to carry a LOT of heatsinks which makes the MECH heat efficient(seriously..the awesome could carry more weapons easily..but then like most assaults it would be 1/2 way up the heat scale after an Alpha)

[king.com]

This being the apparent de facto Battletech universe thread, anyone have recommendations for where to start (and end) with the published novels?

So the thing about the Battletech books are that most of them are very terrible indeed. I recommend something thats not tied to the main universe to see if you can handle it or not. The Gray's Death Legion books are not the best but readable atleast. After that you can reconsider where you want to go.

Twilight of the Clans is probably the best but....the standard is not exactly high.

[Gnoman]

The old Catapult was, in my opinion, a downgrade from the Archer, which at least had a pair of LRM/20's, but the LRM 15's of a Catapult weren't too bad. Decent missileboat support mech.

The Hunchback was a twisted mech, with an insanely powerful gun he almost never gets to fire. Just as well, since you sneeze and it runs itself dry. But the Hunchback was, bar none, the best way to make a mech back the heck up, because NO ONE wanted to get inside 6 with that thing. Even Assaults preferred to deal with it at a more respectable distance.. like say 10+ hexes... just to be sure. After all, a weapon that can blow the head off of a mech in one shot is something which commands respect... because there's always that chance of box cars (goes to a one in six when aiming at the punch hit location table) which any mech pilot keeps in mind.

The Aweseome.... pretty much lived up to the name. Being able to lay down two PPC's reliably, and even 3 in a pinch if you get someone locked up in medium or close range, is something that no mech wants to tangle with. And because it's an energy weapon, there's really no reason to NOT fire conservatively, just on the off hand chance of landing something.

The Panther... well, there's a reason it was nicknamed the Alleycat. Like the Hunchback, it's got a huge honkin' weapon for its tonnage. Unlike the Hunchback, however, it's got some jump jets for maneuverability and a decently ranged weapon. It really thrives in urban settings, being able to get alley shots. Jumping onto or behind buildings to block LoS gave it some survivability, which was necessary considering it's sub-par armor.

I'm wanting to say it was the Locust which was the 35 ton mech with 2x SRM/6's? While many would scoff at a scout mech with a purely missile-based armament, it was surprisingly effective on patrol to take out other light mechs. It had decent armor for a light mech, and those SRM's really HURT when they hit a light mech. While it has a potential 24 damage output from a single volley, that is almost never realized, due to how SRM's work (remember, this is 3025, before Streaks were invented). However, when you only had 4-6 points of armor in any given location, those two points added up pretty damn quickly. They were also NOT something an already heavily damaged mech wanted to see, SRM's 'sandblasting' is generally sub-par as a main weapon, due to being unable to punch through thick armor, but if you had a few hit locations which were either weak or blown through already... that very same sandblasting means you've got a solid chance of hitting that weak location with at least one missile... which gets real unpleasant when you start rolling on the crit charts...

The lightest unit I can remember with 2xSRM 6 was the Javelin. The Locust used (depending on configuration) 2xmg 1xML, 2xLM 1xMG, 2xML 2xSL.

[Hawriel]

Twilight of the Clans is probably the best but....the standard is not exactly high.

You say the books are not very good. Then recommend the worst of the series as the best offering?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

The lightest unit I can remember with 2xSRM 6 was the Javelin. The Locust used (depending on configuration) 2xmg 1xML, 2xLM 1xMG, 2xML 2xSL.

Ahh right, the Javi. Quite an interesting little mech. Not very useful against undamaged mechs larger than itself, but pure murder to other scouts and even damaged heavier mechs.

[king.com]

You say the books are not very good. Then recommend the worst of the series as the best offering?

Yea the question was 'where to start' which is what that series is good for. It explains a bunch of stuff and the setup for the two more popular sections of the Battletech timeline (especially for those coming from the video game side of things), theres a cohesive narrative and it talks about something actually happening with decent pacing! Well except for the random cut ro Horse and Joanna doing random clan stuff but I personally love it showing how ridiculous the clans are so theres that.

If your honestly trying to say anything is worse than the Black Thorns books, you are clearly insane.

[Alex Knight]

If your honestly trying to say anything is worse than the Black Thorns books, you are clearly insane.

*Ahem*

Star Lord.

I win, sirrah.

[king.com]

*Ahem*

Star Lord.

I win, sirrah.

I don't know, its pretty bad but more in the face palming kind of way and not the "oh god what the hell is wrong with everything in this book" kind of way. I didn't want to see EVERY character in the that book die horribly.

Jeremiah Rose is not only the most disgusting examples of humanity posing as a hero but the first book (Main Event) actively contradicts itself every 5 minutes and every character who acts rationally and/or disagrees with Jeremiah Rose instantly becomes a villain. Jeremiah Rose, the guy who beats his girlfriend and then justifies his actions!

[otakuryoga]

I don't know, its pretty bad but more in the face palming kind of way and not the "oh god what the hell is wrong with everything in this book" kind of way. I didn't want to see EVERY character in the that book die horribly.

Jeremiah Rose is not only the most disgusting examples of humanity posing as a hero but the first book (Main Event) actively contradicts itself every 5 minutes and every character who acts rationally and/or disagrees with Jeremiah Rose instantly becomes a villain. Jeremiah Rose, the guy who beats his girlfriend and then justifies his actions!

is he the one that runs a captured Masakari Prime and constantly alphas..then alphas again as soon as the PPC's recycle?

.....yeah

[iyaerP]

So I just picked up a catapharact in game, and I love it. As the only chassis with four ballistic slots, I can boat gauss better than a K2 thanks to better weight limits, I can do a quad AC2 build, or I can run UAC/5s for maximum dakka. I like it. I like it gooooood.

[ShadowFighter15]

I've been using a CTF-4X as well and it's actually the first 'mech I've been reliably getting kills with. Granted, part of that is due to the lag from connecting to a Canadian server (I really hope they get some servers down our end of the world by launch) but I think it's mostly from my own lack of skill - I'm no Morgan Kell, believe me.

And I haven't been going Dual-Gauss or one of those other builds you see people complaining about on the MWO forums - this thing's still stock. Still saving up for a couple of UAC/5s, Endo-Steel and an AMS.

Even on the matches where I don't get any kills, I still tend to rake in the kill-assists. Frankly, I doubt I'll be piloting anything else until Clan Tech starts turning up or they manage to get permission to use the Unseen - I want my Warhammer, damnit! :smalltongue:

[Silverraptor]

So, I got the Centurion CN9-AL variant. I remembered liking it when it was a free trial mech, and now I'm loving it. Especially since I removed the LRMs for SRMs. I didn't realize how much tonage LRM 10 launcher was. I thought I'd only have enough for a 2 SRM or 4 with 1 ammo. Instead, I got SRM 6 with 2 extra ammo and enough tonage to buy 2 standard heat sinks! I have to test it out to see if I need the extra heat sinks, or extra ammo, or a CASE, but I really love this variant!:smallbiggrin:

Max armor, descent speed, and packs a punch? This is the ultimate medium mech in my mind!:smallbiggrin: (*Note: not an expert and is making a totally noob call based on the playstyle he likes.)

[iyaerP]

See, that's what I like about the hunchback. Even in its default loadouts, nobody likes tangling with it due to the AC20, or the NINE MLs, or 5MLs and an AC10. Combined with very heavy for a med armor and respectable 64kph speed, it is a fun package.

[mangosta71]

64kph is a respectable top speed for a heavy or assault mech, but it's slow for a medium. Anything you outgun can outrun you, but you can't outrun anything that outguns you.

If you like that playstyle, I'd recommend something heavier. While most heavier Mechs have horrendous heat issues in their default configurations, you can fix that via customization and still end up with more armor and firepower than you've got in an optimized Centurion/Hunchback. However, if you're sticking with the Centurion, another modification you may consider is converting to double heat sinks and swapping the large laser out for a PPC or pulse laser.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

64kph is a respectable top speed for a heavy or assault mech, but it's slow for a medium. Anything you outgun can outrun you, but you can't outrun anything that outguns you.Yea, this is the big problem here, which was the problem of the tabletop version of the Hunchback. The AC/20 was a scary weapon, but it was too slow to keep up with light and even most medium mechs, and can't survive against heavy/assaults due to lack of armor. Mind you, it was still something no one wanted to get close to, but it was fairly easy to snipe off at range and kite around the map due to its poor maneuverability.


If you like that playstyle, I'd recommend something heavier. While most heavier Mechs have horrendous heat issues in their default configurations, you can fix that via customization and still end up with more armor and firepower than you've got in an optimized Centurion/Hunchback. However, if you're sticking with the Centurion, another modification you may consider is converting to double heat sinks and swapping the large laser out for a PPC or pulse laser.

If the King Crab is around, it might fit your style. Twin AC/20's brings serious pain, and max armor for a 100 ton mech can shrug off quite a bit. Same speed as a Hunchback as well, but it's got the defensive capability to handle the lower speed.

One of the variants of the King Crab I used to do was to swap out one of the AC/20's with a PPC and some heat sinks. Gave it a ranged punch and a close up punch to make it quite formidable.

[Silverraptor]

64kph is a respectable top speed for a heavy or assault mech, but it's slow for a medium. Anything you outgun can outrun you, but you can't outrun anything that outguns you.

If you like that playstyle, I'd recommend something heavier. While most heavier Mechs have horrendous heat issues in their default configurations, you can fix that via customization and still end up with more armor and firepower than you've got in an optimized Centurion/Hunchback. However, if you're sticking with the Centurion, another modification you may consider is converting to double heat sinks and swapping the large laser out for a PPC or pulse laser.

Yeah, I was thinking about that. Right now I'm working on getting C-bills to do that. I just upgraded the armor to the thing that makes the armor and 40% lighter for 14 slots. And I had plenty of slots to spare that I can pu in about 2 double heatsinks before I start taking out regular heatsinks for those things.

However, whats the difference in firepower from the Large laser to the PPC or Pulse laser? I was to view all my options before making a final decision.

[Folytopo]

If wieght balancing is still in the game brawler mediums still have their purpose. Also Silver I would suggest moving to a bigger engine as next major upgrade. I like to get all my hunch backs to go around 80+ kilometers per hour to be more effective. The one thing that they do well right now is that they are generally better in the hit box and maneuverability categories than the heavy mechs. So circling duels are easier on you. Although the centurions can get up to nearly 100 kph so that design is good because you move very fast and can be fairly tough. Real pain for long range support boats and assaults.

[mangosta71]

However, whats the difference in firepower from the Large laser to the PPC or Pulse laser? I was to view all my options before making a final decision.
PPCs pack 25% more punch with 20% more range. The ERPPC does the same damage, but at about 50% longer range than the standard large laser (but also generates ridonkulous amounts of heat). A large pulse laser (LPL) deals about 10% more damage, but only has two-thirds the range. However, pulse lasers also tend to have extremely quick cycling times. Which one is better for you depends on your typical range of engagement.

An engine upgrade might be valuable. A 250 only weighs 4 more tons, though it will also make your gyro a ton heavier so you'll effectively be losing 5. That's still workable without having to resort to an XL engine (particularly if you're switching to double heat sinks - even if you sacrifice 5 you would have more heat capacity without losing any firepower or armor). A 300 XL is only one ton heavier than a standard 200 (but again requires the heavier gyro, so the effective loss is 2 tons). However, the extra mobility can make a substantial difference in survivability (you'd be walking as fast as you run currently). Also, you can put more heat sinks in bigger engines - the 200 you currently have stores 8, a 250 would hold 10, and a 300 would have room for 12, which means more critical slots open. Hmm.....

[Silverraptor]

Yeah, I plan on getting the double heat sinks, but I need to get 1.5 mil c-bils to upgrade to double heat sinks.

[The Glyphstone]

I should thwack myself again for being off-topic, but I decided to re-install Mechwarrior 3 for nostalgia and funsies, and as expected for such an ancient game, it's not working right.The graphics are acceptable in software render mode, but every 30 seconds or so the controls just flip out - my zoom toggles in and out, the entire mech goes bonkers and runs like a headless chicken into and through terrain for a few seconds, then returns control to me. Any ideas on how to fix this nonsense?

[Philistine]

PPCs pack 25% more punch with 20% more range. The ERPPC does the same damage, but at about 50% longer range than the standard large laser (but also generates ridonkulous amounts of heat). A large pulse laser (LPL) deals about 10% more damage, but only has two-thirds the range. However, pulse lasers also tend to have extremely quick cycling times. Which one is better for you depends on your typical range of engagement.

An engine upgrade might be valuable. A 250 only weighs 4 more tons, though it will also make your gyro a ton heavier so you'll effectively be losing 5. That's still workable without having to resort to an XL engine (particularly if you're switching to double heat sinks - even if you sacrifice 5 you would have more heat capacity without losing any firepower or armor). A 300 XL is only one ton heavier than a standard 200 (but again requires the heavier gyro, so the effective loss is 2 tons). However, the extra mobility can make a substantial difference in survivability (you'd be walking as fast as you run currently). Also, you can put more heat sinks in bigger engines - the 200 you currently have stores 8, a 250 would hold 10, and a 300 would have room for 12, which means more critical slots open. Hmm.....

The added vulnerability of the XL engine might be too high a price to pay for 96 kph speed in this weight bracket (118 kph would be a different story, but that would require considerably more extensive (and expensive!) changes). 86 kph isn't bad for a 50 tonner, and most of the weight you'd need to free up could come from upgrading the standard 13 heat sinks to 10 double heat sinks.

[NeoVid]

Well, the latest patch added something stupidly simple that got my attention: Custom paint schemes. Not many options yet, but it's great to have it implemented already.


You say the books are not very good. Then recommend the worst of the series as the best offering?

As for me, I always thought Victor Milan and Mike Stackpole did the best books in the series.

If there was ever a BattleTech movie, I was hoping it would be based on Close Quarters.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Well, the latest patch added something stupidly simple that got my attention: Custom paint schemes. Not many options yet, but it's great to have it implemented already.



As for me, I always thought Victor Milan and Mike Stackpole did the best books in the series.

If there was ever a BattleTech movie, I was hoping it would be based on Close Quarters.

If they can get the same crew who did the special effects of the Transformers movie, and get Joss Wheaton to do the script, then I would pay my money regardless of which story they were salvaging.

[mangosta71]

The added vulnerability of the XL engine might be too high a price to pay for 96 kph speed in this weight bracket (118 kph would be a different story, but that would require considerably more extensive (and expensive!) changes). 86 kph isn't bad for a 50 tonner, and most of the weight you'd need to free up could come from upgrading the standard 13 heat sinks to 10 double heat sinks.
Actually, he's running the beamer variant, which trades the AC for a LL and half a dozen extra heat sinks, so all of the extra weight for the engine can come out of excess heat sinks once he's made the conversion.

If you go with a standard engine, you should have room to swap in endo steel so you can add another couple medium lasers. If you go with an XL, and endo steel, and ferro-fibrous, about the only way you'll run out of weight before crit slots is converting your MLs to MPLs, or adding a second LL/LPL/PPC. (Can people tell yet that I had more fun designing Mechs in the board game than actually playing the game?)

[Philistine]

Ah, right. My mind got sidetracked by the HBK discussion. Hmm. With the changes Silver has already described on his Centurion, he could actually get enough tonnage free for the 350XL engine without too much pain - or a standard 250 plus 150m jump capacity. All or nearly all of the needed weight allowance would come from converting to drastically fewer double-capacity heat sinks.

Ludicrous speed is expensive, of course - SSW gives a final price tag north of 10 million C-Bills for the 118 kph variant, compared to 4.7 million for the 86 kph Jumper.

[Silverraptor]

Actually, he's running the beamer variant, which trades the AC for a LL and half a dozen extra heat sinks, so all of the extra weight for the engine can come out of excess heat sinks once he's made the conversion.

If you go with a standard engine, you should have room to swap in endo steel so you can add another couple medium lasers. If you go with an XL, and endo steel, and ferro-fibrous, about the only way you'll run out of weight before crit slots is converting your MLs to MPLs, or adding a second LL/LPL/PPC. (Can people tell yet that I had more fun designing Mechs in the board game than actually playing the game?)

Alot of the technical stuff is going over my head, but I did upgrade my armor to the stronger, lighter kind that just uses up slots. Now that I have double heatsinks instead of regular and 6 tons left over, I still have PLENTY of slots left over. If there is another upgrade that makes something stronger and lighter in place of slots, please let me know. Cause that would mean I could get a much stronger engine than a 250 that I'm planning on right now (Up from 200.)

By the way, whats the speed difference between 200 (64km) and a 250?


Ah, right. My mind got sidetracked by the HBK discussion. Hmm. With the changes Silver has already described on his Centurion, he could actually get enough tonnage free for the 350XL engine without too much pain - or a standard 250 plus 150m jump capacity. All or nearly all of the needed weight allowance would come from converting to drastically fewer double-capacity heat sinks.

Ludicrous speed is expensive, of course - SSW gives a final price tag north of 10 million C-Bills for the 118 kph variant, compared to 4.7 million for the 86 kph Jumper.

I can't get the XL engine because I have 2 medium lasers on the center torso that takes up the slots for that and I'm not getting rid of them. My centurion will often lose its arm before they get through the center torso, and those medium lasers will still work until they destroy it (in other words kill me). I like having a final weapon on death, so I'm keeping them.

[Philistine]

Alot of the technical stuff is going over my head, but I did upgrade my armor to the stronger, lighter kind that just uses up slots. Now that I have double heatsinks instead of regular and 6 tons left over, I still have PLENTY of slots left over. If there is another upgrade that makes something stronger and lighter in place of slots, please let me know. Cause that would mean I could get a much stronger engine than a 250 that I'm planning on right now (Up from 200.)
If it's been implemented into the game, Endo Steel internal structure uses up 14 slots in exchange for halving the weight of your 'Mech's internal structure. For a 50-tonner, that would free up an extra 2.5 tons. Unless MWO has rebalanced one or both, ESIS is strictly better than ferro-fibrous armor as it gives greater weight savings for the same cost in critical slots.


By the way, whats the speed difference between 200 (64km) and a 250?
In the tabletop game, you get your basic speed by dividing your engine rating by your tonnage. A 200-rated engine in a 50t 'Mech gave a Walk speed of 4, which (after converting for the size of the hexes and the length of rounds) translated into a walking speed of roughly 43 kph. Maximum (or Run) speed is 50% greater than walking speed, so that would be about 64 kph. A 250-rated engine gives a 50t 'Mech a Walk speed of ~57 kph and a Run speed of 86 kph; a 300-rated engine would give 64 kph Walking and 96 kph Running, and a 350 would boost your speeds further to Walk 78 kph and Run 118 kph. (In theory you could install a 400-rated engine, the largest in the game, into a 50t 'Mech for a Walk speed of 86 kph and a Run speed of 128; but even the XL version of the 400 engine is too massive for this to be a really practical suggestion. Frankly, the 350XL is already pushing it.)


I can't get the XL engine because I have 2 medium lasers on the center torso that takes up the slots for that and I'm not getting rid of them. My centurion will often lose its arm before they get through the center torso, and those medium lasers will still work until they destroy it (in other words kill me). I like having a final weapon on death, so I'm keeping them.
Wait, what? In the tabletop game, XL engines fill 3 slots in each side torso but do not - cannot - occupy any additional space in the CT. I take it that's changed? But I can't imagine why they'd do that.

[Silverraptor]

If it's been implemented into the game, Endo Steel internal structure uses up 14 slots in exchange for halving the weight of your 'Mech's internal structure. For a 50-tonner, that would free up an extra 2.5 tons. Unless MWO has rebalanced one or both, ESIS is strictly better than ferro-fibrous armor as it gives greater weight savings for the same cost in critical slots.


In the tabletop game, you get your basic speed by dividing your engine rating by your tonnage. A 200-rated engine in a 50t 'Mech gave a Walk speed of 4, which (after converting for the size of the hexes and the length of rounds) translated into a walking speed of roughly 43 kph. Maximum (or Run) speed is 50% greater than walking speed, so that would be about 64 kph. A 250-rated engine gives a 50t 'Mech a Walk speed of ~57 kph and a Run speed of 86 kph; a 300-rated engine would give 64 kph Walking and 96 kph Running, and a 350 would boost your speeds further to Walk 78 kph and Run 118 kph. (In theory you could install a 400-rated engine, the largest in the game, into a 50t 'Mech for a Walk speed of 86 kph and a Run speed of 128; but even the XL version of the 400 engine is too massive for this to be a really practical suggestion. Frankly, the 350XL is already pushing it.)


Wait, what? In the tabletop game, XL engines fill 3 slots in each side torso but do not - cannot - occupy any additional space in the CT. I take it that's changed? But I can't imagine why they'd do that.

Okay, I lookd up the skeleton upgrade. It costs 14 slots and unfortunately I only have 7 open.

The engine upgrade I miscalculated. I have enough tonage for the 245 engine, but I'm a ton short for the 250. I could remove the CASE and small laser and make enough room. I have no problem removing CASE, since the SRM launcher almost never gets destroyed, but I don't know about the small laser. Its attached on the right arm just below the large laser and when I aim it, they both hit at the same time. My DPS is "Acceptable" and I don't want to lower it too much. How much does a light laser do it terms of damage compared to a medium and large laser? (And why don't they show the DPS in the mech window when your looking at the components?:smallannoyed:)

And the regular engine takes up 6 slots. The XL engine takes up 12 slots. So no XL engine.

[Storm Bringer]

Okay, I lookd up the skeleton upgrade. It costs 14 slots and unfortunately I only have 7 open.

The engine upgrade I miscalculated. I have enough tonage for the 245 engine, but I'm a ton short for the 250. I could remove the CASE and small laser and make enough room. I have no problem removing CASE, since the SRM launcher almost never gets destroyed, but I don't know about the small laser. Its attached on the right arm just below the large laser and when I aim it, they both hit at the same time. My DPS is "Acceptable" and I don't want to lower it too much. How much does a light laser do it terms of damage compared to a medium and large laser? (And why don't they show the DPS in the mech window when your looking at the components?:smallannoyed:)

And the regular engine takes up 6 slots. The XL engine takes up 12 slots. So no XL engine.


by the Table Top Rules:

PPC: 10 damage for 10 heat.
Large Laser: 8 damage for 8 heat.
Medium Laser: 5 damage for 3 heat
Small Laser: 3 damage for 1 heat

A/C weapons do damage equal to thier rating (i.e. a AC/5 does 5 damage, a AC/20 does 20, ect). guass do 15 damage for 1 heat by TT rules. SRM missles do 2 damage per missle and LRMS do 1 per missle.

the reason i think they hide the DPS is because they have tweaked things form the table top rules somewhat, so builts that work well on the table will not inheritly work well in MWO, and visa-versa.

oh, and to clarify, since it's not clear form your post if you know this: CASE works by protecting the ammunition for the SRM, not the launcher. you must mount it in the same body section as the ammo you are protecting for it to have any effect. it will only have an effect if your ammo is hit and explodes, in which case it will turn a game ending explosion into a merely crippling explosion.

[Silverraptor]

by the Table Top Rules:

PPC: 10 damage for 10 heat.
Large Laser: 8 damage for 8 heat.
Medium Laser: 5 damage for 3 heat
Small Laser: 3 damage for 1 heat

A/C weapons do damage equal to thier rating (i.e. a AC/5 does 5 damage, a AC/20 does 20, ect). guass do 15 damage for 1 heat by TT rules. SRM missles do 2 damage per missle and LRMS do 1 per missle.

the reason i think they hide the DPS is because they have tweaked things form the table top rules somewhat, so builts that work well on the table will not inheritly work well in MWO, and visa-versa.

oh, and to clarify, since it's not clear form your post if you know this: CASE works by protecting the ammunition for the SRM, not the launcher. you must mount it in the same body section as the ammo you are protecting for it to have any effect. it will only have an effect if your ammo is hit and explodes, in which case it will turn a game ending explosion into a merely crippling explosion.

Yeah, I know. I put CASE over the launcher because I have ammo in the same section. Out of all the fights, I've only had that section get destroyed once, and that was when I was zombied. Well, not entirely zombied, I still had the 2 medium lasers in my belly-button.:smallamused:

[NeoVid]

If it's been implemented into the game, Endo Steel internal structure uses up 14 slots in exchange for halving the weight of your 'Mech's internal structure.

Endo Steel is a better choice than FF armor if you need a weight saver in MWO, since Endo increases your repair costs if you lose body parts, but FF armor increases your repair costs if your armor takes damage in a match. Your wallet will be hurting after a while running FF.

[iyaerP]

(In theory you could install a 400-rated engine, the largest in the game, into a 50t 'Mech for a Walk speed of 86 kph and a Run speed of 128; but even the XL version of the 400 engine is too massive for this to be a really practical suggestion. Frankly, the 350XL is already pushing it.)


Wait, what? In the tabletop game, XL engines fill 3 slots in each side torso but do not - cannot - occupy any additional space in the CT. I take it that's changed? But I can't imagine why they'd do that.

This was actually a problem with 400XL engine swaybacks mounting 9 small lasers and just murdering everything. And because the way that thier netcode is (laggier than ironforge in vanilla wow), a mech doing over 110 was pretty much impossible to hit for any meaningful damage. 6 laser jenners going almost 150 was almost as bad, but not nearly as tough.

They ended up having to nerf the max engine size for medium and light mechs to prevent it.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

This was actually a problem with 400XL engine swaybacks mounting 9 small lasers and just murdering everything. And because the way that thier netcode is (laggier than ironforge in vanilla wow), a mech doing over 110 was pretty much impossible to hit for any meaningful damage. 6 laser jenners going almost 150 was almost as bad, but not nearly as tough.

They ended up having to nerf the max engine size for medium and light mechs to prevent it.

So no Hussars? Aww....

[Philistine]

Okay, I lookd up the skeleton upgrade. It costs 14 slots and unfortunately I only have 7 open.

The engine upgrade I miscalculated. I have enough tonage for the 245 engine, but I'm a ton short for the 250. I could remove the CASE and small laser and make enough room. I have no problem removing CASE, since the SRM launcher almost never gets destroyed, but I don't know about the small laser. Its attached on the right arm just below the large laser and when I aim it, they both hit at the same time. My DPS is "Acceptable" and I don't want to lower it too much. How much does a light laser do it terms of damage compared to a medium and large laser? (And why don't they show the DPS in the mech window when your looking at the components?:smallannoyed:)

And the regular engine takes up 6 slots. The XL engine takes up 12 slots. So no XL engine.
You said you had 2 tons of ammo for the SRM - you might consider dropping one of those for the engine bump.

I don't actually recommend the XL engine, but not because "it won't fit." It would fit, and would not displace your CT-mounted MLs (since the six extra slots would go into the side torsos - seriously, there aren't 6 extra slots in the CT for it to occupy). In fact, it effectively would not cost you any slots: if you have 10 DHS in a 'Mech with a 200-rated engine, two of those are currently in the chassis taking up 6 critical slots. The XL engine would cost 6 slots, but would free up the 6 slots you're currently using for heat sinks. So it's a wash.

[mangosta71]

Upgrading to a 300 XL would put 4 more heat sinks into your engine, so you would actually free up 6 critical slots. However, XL engines make you more fragile - you can be killed by losing a side instead of only by getting cored. That's why it's not really worth it unless you can get your speed up enough that your enemies can't reliably hit you.

As I calculate things, using FF armor is saving you one ton (assuming you're at the maximum armor value). ES internal structure would save you 2.5 tons, which, coincidentally, is how much weight you need for jump jets if you upgrade your engine to a 250.

Unless missiles are really good, you could swap out the SRM6 and its ammo for a pair of medium pulse lasers and another heat sink and use the half-ton that frees up (since CASE is no longer useful) to upgrade the small that's riding side-saddle with your large to another medium, all of which comes out as a wash in terms of critical slots. But it all boils down to what you want to use the Mech for. We can sit here and theorycraft/design all day, but you're the one piloting it.

[Folytopo]

One major thing to keep in mind is that the developers have changed the way that heat works. Energy weapons have two significant drawbacks compared to the table top. The first is that lasers fire for a whole second and you need to keep it locked on them to have an impact. The second is that they have changed the the way that heat works. The they tripled armour, doubled ammo, kept heat the same and have weapons fire every three seconds. What that means is that weapons generate upwards of three times the heat that they do in table top for the same effectiveness. I would keep a srm. You could make it smaller if need be but a weapon that produces very little heat is likely a great benefit.

[Silverraptor]

Interesting. I may change the FF armor to the skeletal design. I mainly got the FF armor because I was really impressed by how strong the armor of my mech was for a medium mech and wanted it even stronger, but I haven't really notice any difference since I change it. And if the other is lighter...

And currently, I almost never overheat, but thats because of 2 medium, 1 large, and 1 small laser. Pulse laser I imagine generate more heat, so I may reduce the SRM as well. Decisions, decisions.

Of course, I still need alot of cash, so yeah >.>

[Philistine]

The thing is, the stock Centurion is already carrying about as much armor as it can for its tonnage. Going to Ferro-fibrous makes the same amount of armor lighter, but it does not increase the chassis's maximum armor value - so making it even tougher isn't really an available option.

[Silverraptor]

The thing is, the stock Centurion is already carrying about as much armor as it can for its tonnage. Going to Ferro-fibrous makes the same amount of armor lighter, but it does not increase the chassis's maximum armor value - so making it even tougher isn't really an available option.

Okay, thanks. Now I need money to switch that back to normal and then more money for the skeletal structure.:smallannoyed:

[Silverraptor]

So, the verdict is finally in. I managed to swap out my SRM 6 into an SRM 4, replace the small laser in my right arm for a medium laser, and get the largest standard engine. Max speed is 84 KPH. Not as fast as I expected, but I'm liking the new speed and more reliable firepower.:smallbiggrin: (I say reliable because I miss like half of my missles with the SRM 6)

[ShneekeyTheLost]

So, the verdict is finally in. I managed to swap out my SRM 6 into an SRM 4, replace the small laser in my right arm for a medium laser, and get the largest standard engine. Max speed is 84 KPH. Not as fast as I expected, but I'm liking the new speed and more reliable firepower.:smallbiggrin: (I say reliable because I miss like half of my missles with the SRM 6)

Missiles are sandblasters. Their point isn't to punch through armor. Their point is to either get SOME hits on very fast mechs, or to finish off mechs with damaged armor. Think of it like a shotgun.

[Thrawn183]

It's official, I suck at this game. I think I've done >100 damage... twice?

[Folytopo]

Missiles have travel time. They are bad for hitting mechs. They are mostly for stripping armour off of heavy mechs with large hit boxes. I think they are good for good dps for heat and tonnage.

[DaedalusMkV]

It's official, I suck at this game. I think I've done >100 damage... twice?

Ditto. I don't think I'll be able to make it through the grind to a real mech, with my best game so far at 50 damage delt, 8 losses to 2 wins and only like a tenth of the way through the grind...

Honestly, I get that it's still in beta, but I don't think I've ever encountered a more noob-unfriendly game in my life. I mean, it's like 10 hours of gameplay before you can buy your first 'mech and actually unlock the parts of the game that make it unique and interesting, and you're going to suck the whole way through it. I think I'm going to have to give up on it, love of Mechwarrior PC games or not.

[Lokk]

DLing it now, quick question. Is it worth buying a stick for?

I remember the old MW games were always really wonky control wise then I got a stick and throttle and suddenly dominated.

[Thrawn183]

Ditto. I don't think I'll be able to make it through the grind to a real mech, with my best game so far at 50 damage delt, 8 losses to 2 wins and only like a tenth of the way through the grind...

I wish there was something to tell you how much damage you're doing real time. That's what made me actually get decent at TF 2. Right now I can't tell when I'm actually doing anything right, so it's rather difficult to improve.

[The Glyphstone]

Ditto. I don't think I'll be able to make it through the grind to a real mech, with my best game so far at 50 damage delt, 8 losses to 2 wins and only like a tenth of the way through the grind...

Honestly, I get that it's still in beta, but I don't think I've ever encountered a more noob-unfriendly game in my life. I mean, it's like 10 hours of gameplay before you can buy your first 'mech and actually unlock the parts of the game that make it unique and interesting, and you're going to suck the whole way through it. I think I'm going to have to give up on it, love of Mechwarrior PC games or not.

You're not alone.

[DodgerH2O]

Something to look for re: Damage. When you score a hit (no matter how little or much damage you do) the crosshairs in your HUD glow red. Not sure how this interacts with the 'lag shield' that many lights have due to their speed...

Also I think part of the newb-unfriendly thing is that PGI wants people to spend real cash on a new mech, so they're less motivated to make the initial grind less frustrating. I found it quite useful, as I had no idea what I was doing anyway, so by the time I got my COM-2D I had the basics down pat.

I have the same name in-game, and am often on the NGNG Outreach server on TS, if anyone from the board wants to group up for a few games.


Re: Getting a stick, I've heard that joystick support isn't the best right now, but there are several topics on the MWO forums about how to properly configure a stick. I feel like I'd do better with a joystick/mouse combo than keyboard/mouse, but haven't tried it yet.

[Storm Bringer]

what are peoples opinion on the introduction of ECM, which has, in my opinion, completly changed the dynamics of combat (and nerfed LRM boats something chronic)?

[Silverraptor]

What is ECM anyways?:smallconfused:

[DodgerH2O]

Electronic
Counter
Measures

Main effects right now are an "invisibility cloak" to radar (can still gain visual but can't target, lock on, or share location with teammates if you see them) and a jamming effect at short range, so that you can't relay target info to your teammates, can't lock on SSRMs or LRMs, and your team can't see you either. It forms a "Bubble" so one ECM mech can cover an entire group of others if they stay in range.

As it stands, the ECM also serves as ECCM (Electronic Counter-CounterMeasures) which would be my primary gripe with the implementation. I've grown used to ECM, but it's a lot easier to handle if you group up and ensure at least one person on your team can field an ECM mech.

Personally I think that a "personal ECCM" (instead of blanket/field ECCM) should be available as a module/piece of gear, so LRM boats can still lock on, spotters can still spot and transmit back to their team, etc.

[Snowstorm]

I can't 'effing stand ECM, personally... I need those dots on my minimap. :(

[Silverraptor]

Okay, my Centurion is now complete!:smallbiggrin: I've soloed 2 Assault mechs and beat both of them. Light mechs take a look at me and either run away, or I keep pace with them when they start to circle around me. In fact, the mech I'm scared of the most is either LRM boats, which I just dive behind walls and avoid most of the missles, or other medium mechs. However, most medium mechs move at ~64 KPH while I move at 82, so I can out maneuver them still.

Most of the fights I manage to get half their team to focus on me, dodging most of them until my entire team is bareling down on top of them, in which case its too late.:smallbiggrin:

Also, one of those Assault mechs? it was an Awesome which I came up from behind on it. I landed 2 alpha volley's and striped its rear armor before it started to turn. I then spent the next couple minutes running around the buildings in the glacial map and playing mind games with it. Run around 1 building, strafe it, run around another, strafe it, stop, turn around, wait a few seconds, run *back* out the same way to see it aiming at where I would've been had I circled around the building.

I managed to kill it without taking any damage. And he overheated multiple times on the glacial map trying to kill me!:smallbiggrin:

[The_Ditto]

Ditto. I don't think I'll be able to make it through the grind to a real mech, with my best game so far at 50 damage delt, 8 losses to 2 wins and only like a tenth of the way through the grind...


Although I agree, I'm not sure why you addressed that comment to me
:smallwink:



Honestly, I get that it's still in beta, but I don't think I've ever encountered a more noob-unfriendly game in my life.

Agreed .. I just wish they'd put in a training mode!!

You know, put me in a game on my own, vs stationary targets. I can screw around all I want, as long as I want .. I get no XP/C-bills/awards for it ...

but at least I can take the time to figure out what things do!!

So far my 2 games have gone like this:

a) Start up ... Cool, pretty!!
b) Great, ok, weapons load out ... right ...
c) Ok, movement .. oh, there goes my guys, better keep up ...
d) hmm, ok .. enemies .. uh, right, there's one .. fire .. fire
e) Hmm, how do I lock on with this LRM, again ?
f) hmm, I'm dead? oh .. ok.
:smalleek:

[Silverraptor]

You know, we should probably organize a group meeting. Foly and I and I'm sure a few others would be happy to get on mumble with all of you and help you play some games. I was absolutely dreadful when I first started.:smallsmile:

[Silverraptor]

I have a question for you all on customizing my mech. For some reason, no matter how hard I try, the medium laser seems to default to being over the large laser on my right arm. Why is it doing this and what can I do to make the large laser over the medium? This is only for personal taste since the slots on the arm has the bigger one over the smaller one and I want the laser to reflect that way.

[Folytopo]

I do not know about your question silver but I am totally down to drop with people on mumble. I am writing finals so need to give me some notice.

[mangosta71]

It's probably doing it that way because in the stock model of your Mech the small laser is above the large (as in, no matter how the crit slots are assigned, the weapons are arranged that way in the rendering). If that's the case, there probably isn't a way to change it.

[iyaerP]

So I decided to upgrade the engine on my cataphract to an XL engine to try and get a little more speed out of the same tonnage, and not be so absurdly slow on the battlefield.

But after selling my current engine, I realized that I didn't have enough for the XL engine after all. So currently, my favorite mech is sitting without an engine in the mechlab, wondering when I will earn enough to play with it again. I love you baby, I just need to spend time in my awesome and hunchback to be able to pay for your new engine. No, don't take it like that, you're still my favorite mech baby, I just can't take you out in the field like that. I'm sure you understand.

[Silverraptor]

So I decided to upgrade the engine on my cataphract to an XL engine to try and get a little more speed out of the same tonnage, and not be so absurdly slow on the battlefield.

But after selling my current engine, I realized that I didn't have enough for the XL engine after all. So currently, my favorite mech is sitting without an engine in the mechlab, wondering when I will earn enough to play with it again. I love you baby, I just need to spend time in my awesome and hunchback to be able to pay for your new engine. No, don't take it like that, you're still my favorite mech baby, I just can't take you out in the field like that. I'm sure you understand.

Awkward.:smalltongue:

[iyaerP]

Don't tell me that I am the only one who anthrpamorphizes my mechs am I? Hell, since they added Betty to the game, it is only natural.

[The_Ditto]

How accurate is the building/weight/tonnage/etc of mechs compared to the book/table top game?

[Storm Bringer]

How accurate is the building/weight/tonnage/etc of mechs compared to the book/table top game?

the MWO mechlab is rather different in practice to the TableTop mech design process (for example, thier are no restrictions on what type of guns you can mount, so you can put as many, say medium lasers on a mech as you can find tonnage and crit spaces for), but the resulting mechs are pretty much the same as thier TT equivilents (all the purchaseable mechs are indentical to thier TT).


as far as i know, they have not changed any items tonnage or crit slot amount, so a game design SHOULD be TT leagal (although they doubled the armour levels, and increased the amount of ammo per ton, so a TT mech as less armour and less ammo than it's MWO spec.)

[iyaerP]

the MWO mechlab is rather different in practice to the TableTop mech design process (for example, thier are no restrictions on what type of guns you can mount, so you can put as many, say medium lasers on a mech as you can find tonnage and crit spaces for

Patently untrue. Each variant of each chassis has a specific number of weapon slots that corespond to a different weapon type. For instance, the standard jenner has 4 energy and 2 missile slots, of which the defaul loadout consists of 4 MLs and 1 SRM4. My cataphract for example comes with 1 missile slot, 1 energy slot and 4 ballistics slots. My loadout is constrained by those limitations.

It is why for so long the K2 was the only mech to dual-wield gauss rifles. It was the only one that had the ballistic slots and tonnage for them. The only other mech with multiple ballistics slots had them all in the same hit locaiton, so you didn't have enough slots for them.

[Storm Bringer]

Patently untrue. Each variant of each chassis has a specific number of weapon slots that corespond to a different weapon type. For instance, the standard jenner has 4 energy and 2 missile slots, of which the defaul loadout consists of 4 MLs and 1 SRM4. My cataphract for example comes with 1 missile slot, 1 energy slot and 4 ballistics slots. My loadout is constrained by those limitations.

It is why for so long the K2 was the only mech to dual-wield gauss rifles. It was the only one that had the ballistic slots and tonnage for them. The only other mech with multiple ballistics slots had them all in the same hit locaiton, so you didn't have enough slots for them.

sorry, my comment about lack of type restrictions was directed at the table top design rules (where no rule stops you form, say, taking out a hunchbacks AC 20 and sticking a PPC in that torso slot).

[ShneekeyTheLost]

sorry, my comment about lack of type restrictions was directed at the table top design rules (where no rule stops you form, say, taking out a hunchbacks AC 20 and sticking a PPC in that torso slot).

However, taking out the AC/20 and slapping in a Gauss Rifle would be acceptable, assuming tonnage and crit space permitted, no? Which is the most common 'upgrade' I generally do to a 3025 Hunchback.

[The_Ditto]

Each variant of each chassis has a specific number of weapon slots that corespond to a different weapon type. For instance, the standard jenner has 4 energy and 2 missile slots, of which the defaul loadout consists of 4 MLs and 1 SRM4. My cataphract for example comes with 1 missile slot, 1 energy slot and 4 ballistics slots. My loadout is constrained by those limitations.


ah, ok, so as long as you kept in mind the MWO weapon type qtys for your mech, you could then use the TT version to do a build - and it should be darn close if not spot on? (other than said x2 armor and ammo, but that's easy enough to adjust/ignore).

With that in mind, I wrote this little gem years ago, I believe it still functions in Win 7. It's a little Battletech mech lab for the TT game, that some may find useful for planning/tweaking their MWO versions. Feel free to grab and use. :)
Mechlab (https://sites.google.com/site/dotditto/misc-files/MechLabInstall.zip?attredirects=0)
It has up to 3055 tech, so XL, XXL engines, CASE, pretty much everything I've seen in MWO, plus more junk :)

I'd be interested to know how close it comes. I've only played a couple games MWO so far, and I really need a training mode before I'm going to get anywhere :) So for now, I'll sit on the sidelines, and be a techie :smallbiggrin:

[iyaerP]

However, taking out the AC/20 and slapping in a Gauss Rifle would be acceptable, assuming tonnage and crit space permitted, no? Which is the most common 'upgrade' I generally do to a 3025 Hunchback.

That's how my hunchback in game rolls. Well, and with an added CASE

[ShneekeyTheLost]

That's how my hunchback in game rolls. Well, and with an added CASE

Does Gauss need CASE? Well, maybe the gun itself, but not the ammo, unless they changed that.

[iyaerP]

Does Gauss need CASE? Well, maybe the gun itself, but not the ammo, unless they changed that.

Exactly. The ammo itself is harmless, but the gun will explode if destroyed, and in the latest patch, they greatly reduced its durability.

[Thrawn183]

So I tried MWO again. My first game was with the Raven, and I did more damage (~150) than in any match prior.

Then I realized I had earned enough money to buy my first mech, so I went with the dual LRM 20 Catapult and did 255 damage my first try with it...

Guess that answers things for what I should be doing with my time.

[DodgerH2O]

Didn't have luck with Mumble when I tried it... for any wanting to get some good group experience in I've found that Teamspeak has a few good places with Looking For Group sections. I prefer the No Guts No Galaxy Outreach Server and when that's slow, there's Comstar NA and Comstar EU. Also a good place to meet clans/corps if you're looking to join one of those.

[Silverraptor]

Anyone who had trouble grinding, they're awarding bonus c-bills to your first 25 games to be equal to just under 8 million. Anyone who already played 25 games will get those c-bills added to their account. Also, trial mechs add to xp towards that mech as well.

In addition, if I buy a new centurion of a different model and get all the xp for the basic variants, do I need to keep it for the elite buy outs once I get the 3rd ceturion for the requirements?

[iyaerP]

Anyone who had trouble grinding, they're awarding bonus c-bills to your first 25 games to be equal to just under 8 million. Anyone who already played 25 games will get those c-bills added to their account. Also, trial mechs add to xp towards that mech as well.

In addition, if I buy a new centurion of a different model and get all the xp for the basic variants, do I need to keep it for the elite buy outs once I get the 3rd ceturion for the requirements?



I was wondering about that. I logged in yesterday after the patch and couldn't figure for the life of me where all the credits had come from. But I was quite pleased since it meant that my dakkaphract now has a 255XL engine in it. Had to take out the ferrous fiber armour due to slot limits, but was able to throw on another heatsink, and max out all armour locations anyway, and I am now heat neutral in it. Is good fun.

Also, holy stalkers batman. Those things are everywhere, and they are scary as hell. I think the scariest part is how they have the hit profile of a much smaller mech from the front, and so are quite hard to snipe. Also, the shape itself makes it harder to target specific hit locations, and they don't have the giant cockpit that a catapult has. A very solid mech.

Which didn't stop me from coring 2 of them in a single flanking attack from behind with my Awesome's almighty alpha strike of 50. :smallbiggrin: That was a good match.

Oh, and for anyone who didn't know, this patch included some huge optimizations, you should see anywhere from 10-30 FPS increase in combat, but you need to go delete your cache file to see it. I am greatly pleased by this.

[Silverraptor]

I tried out the stalker trial mech. My first thought is this thing has guns, lots of guns. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mbkWMEMB9s)

However, I was cored with firepower that was less than a half of what my normal centurion could take. Same thing to the trial centurion, so I think the trial mechs don't have much armor this time around. I'm glad they have it as the trial mech and made it so I can get XP from it so I don't have to buy it (Damn over 8 mil C bills). But now I'm in an awkward position of trying to figure out what I want to spend over 11 mil C bills on. I guess I'll get the last model of the centurion I need so I can get all 3 basic expierence variants and move on to Elite.

[Thrawn183]

So it's official, LRM's are for me. Just had a match where I did 642 damage. That's 251% of my previous best. I straight up ran out of ammo.

Zero kills and 1 assist. My team got rocked. But hey, for once it wasn't my fault!

[iyaerP]

So it's official, LRM's are for me. Just had a match where I did 642 damage. That's 251% of my previous best. I straight up ran out of ammo.

Zero kills and 1 assist. My team got rocked. But hey, for once it wasn't my fault!

Here's the thing, that amount of damage is misleading to you the player. You see that and think "wow, I kicked ass!"

But only one kill and one assist should tell you a more complete story: That the vast majority of the damage you did with your LRMs was wasted. Don't get me wrong, that is a hell of a lot of damage, and far more than I ever get, but total damage isn't the name of the game. Killed mechs is. And so while 650 damage SOUNDS like a lot, that was all spread out over 8 hit locations on two different mechs. And so unless the mechs you were supporting were trying to disable enemy arms first or something, most of that damage is wasted. That's why the standard catapult carries 4 MLs in addition to its LRMs. Spend a ton or two of ammo to soften them up, and then go core them once they are exposed.

Also something to keep in mind is that artemis missiles make your LRM boating MUCH more effective. The tighter grouping is much better for concetrating your damage, and removes a lot of the wasted spread that only hits arms or legs, instead hitting that all important torso armour.

Regardless, good job. Missile boats are a lot harder to play effectively than most people give them credit for, especially now that ECM is in the game.

[DodgerH2O]

For those who care about these things, MWO officially launched on the 17th. The game plays essentially how it did during Open Beta, with some more mechs and added maps.

[iyaerP]

There is one very big change from most of open beta, and that is the addition of the "ghost heat" mechanic. Horribly convoluted and unintuitive, it basically means that whenever you fire more than a set number of most weapons, you get magical extra heat known as ghost heat. there is a giant table that shows how much extra heat various amounts of certain weapons get, but the basic jist of it is that boating is dead. The devs did it to try and kill the PPC/gauss metagame, but even after they introduced ghost heat, that metagame persisted until the PPC got more heat baseline and the gauss got a charge up timer built into it so it is no longer quite as easy to brawl with.

And then for a little while UAC-5s were the metagame, but those got nerfed slightly too. Right now things are pretty solid, with nothing in a clear standout position of victory.

[Icewraith]

Well, there's also the whole 12 players on a side thing now. How long has there been one of these threads, I've totally missed it?

Edit: Hrm, I think this may be a case of necromancy.