[3.5] What if everyone was a monk? [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Particle_Man

2012-10-12, 02:39 PM

Imagine a setting where the standard phb core monk is the only character class . No other classes, npc classes, prestige classes, variant classes, bloodlines, race-as-class classes (except for monster hd in the MM), gestalt classes, or anything else I haven't thought of. And any MM monster that is capable of having a character class has at least one level in monk.

What would the world be like? Thoughts?

eggs

2012-10-12, 02:46 PM

I suspect the guy who makes guardrails would be out of a job.

HunterColt22

2012-10-12, 02:57 PM

I suspect the guy who makes guardrails would be out of a job.

Don't forget the man who made helmets, he now is crying in a back alley somewhere.

Namfuak

2012-10-12, 03:01 PM

The world would be either extremely wild or overrun with outsiders that advance by RHD, because the humanoid races would have died out a long time ago.

Randomguy

2012-10-12, 03:26 PM

Well, for one thing, everyone is lawful, meaning there would be very little theft or random acts of violence. There would still be plenty of organised crime though, since, you know, Evil monks.

The average "commoner" is now a monk, and therefore slightly stronger.

Some things are now impossible or much harder for humans to do: For example, no one has handle animal or ride anymore, but most ride and handle animal DC's are pretty low so these things won't make much difference (although guard dogs might be a bit rarer). The really big one is that without UMD, even the few magic items that turn up (the ones crafted by outsiders with casting ability) would be very hard to use.

You'd think that there wouldn't be any more armoursmithing, but if you're born with 10 wis then you might rather have plate armour than wis to AC.

Dragons and outsiders and possibly some other creatures would become very hard for adventurers to kill (partly because no magic to use against them, partly because Wis to AC when unarmoured on a monster that doesn't wear armour and has a high wisdom is devestating). However, dragons and monsters with breath weapons are sad because everyone has evasion and good reflex saves now.

The drop in life expectancy and healthcare is huge, since it goes from healing magic available to barely any magic and the Heal skill is cross class for everyone.

laeZ1

2012-10-12, 03:45 PM

Telonius

2012-10-12, 03:52 PM

Dusk Eclipse

2012-10-12, 03:55 PM

I like the answers posted so far, having to do with the setting, but I'm giong to take a break from givnig RP-related answers and talk about mechanics (a little bit).

You specified 3.5 in the thread title, and from what I've seen of 3.5 monks, (at least as a Player Character) there aren't many ways people like to build them. It'd be difficult to make a rounded group, and it would take a lot of roleplay to get the characters to stand out from one another. (please take note that monks are not my strong suit. There's probably a bunch of fun monk builds, I just haven't heard of them.)

I know you didn't ask, but I recently started getting into Pathfinder, and the alternate character classes in the advanced player's handbook made me sort of want to make a campaign where all of the PCs would play monks. So many different ways to defaultly build them.

In 3.5 unless heavy ACF (Invisible fist,Dark Moon, variant combat styles, etc) and/or heavill multiclassed (Tashalastora monk, Divine Fist, etc) which are all prohibited by the OP, must monks build will be almost identical and on the weak side so I don't think it would be fun or interesting.

If you open Pathfinder and archetypes, things will get a little more interesting since there are some good ones like Quiggong or Hungry ghost, etc; but from what I've heard (I don't play PF) there are very few worthwhile Archetypes and some which are downright idiotic (Vow of Peace I am looking at you!!!)

Edit: There are some Viking Dwaves (Midgard perhaps?) who can craft most magic items, from armour, weapons, rings and perhaps wondrous items, they are found in Frostburn.

StreamOfTheSky

2012-10-12, 03:56 PM

Outsiders and Dragons would basically control everything.

Anything with some form of casting or psuedo-casting would rule the roost and the humanoid monk races would be powerless to stop them.

On an odd side note, apparently there would be a 99+% estate tax in all humanoid societies, given that every single humanoid is a monk and thus starts with barely any money. :smalltongue:

Palanan

2012-10-12, 04:06 PM

Dragon 310 has a dozen or so monk variants, which might help diversify a party, not to mention a monk-based culture.

I'm fond of the Sleeping Tiger variant, which gives Improved Initiative and Weapon Finesse as the first two bonus feats. Seems like something could be done to build on that.

Analytica

2012-10-12, 04:37 PM

Basically magic is now dragon-only. They are Tier 2, everyone else Tier 5.

In fact... DragonBall setting?

dextercorvia

2012-10-12, 04:42 PM

Trumpet Archon Monk. Oops, I have to wait until epic to take Monk levels.

Arcanist

2012-10-12, 06:54 PM

As the Young Monk Master gazed upward at the Archwizard he looked down and whispered to himself... "If I die today, I wish to be reincarnated in another campaign setting..."

-The final moments of a Master Monk from the Particleverse :smallamused:

That is how I would react towards being a placed in such a campaign setting :smallannoyed:

Coidzor

2012-10-12, 06:58 PM

^: Particleverse?

Do creatures with SLAs and native casting still have it?

Because Dragons are now invincible, essentially, save for Ethergaunts.

Grimsage Matt

2012-10-12, 07:02 PM

Need some monk freindly homebrew spirtuality feats to compensate for being a monk....

avr

2012-10-12, 10:30 PM

Anything which requires spells to cure - ability drain, curses, petrification, and of course death itself - is now completely incurable save by begging some monster with casting ability or suitable SLAs.

The monk fighting styles are consistent with humanoids being peasants or slaves ruled by someone else who forbids them real weapons/armour. Dragons seem appropriate as a ruling class.

kitcik

2012-10-15, 11:09 AM

The monk fighting styles are consistent with humanoids being peasants or slaves ruled by someone else who forbids them real weapons/armour. Dragons seem appropriate as a ruling class.

+1 now this is sounding more interesting.

ahenobarbi

2012-10-15, 11:27 AM

Since there are virtually no magic items everyone gets Vow of Purity. Or if they are evil max out knowledge(religion) and sacriice others to get boons.

Talionis

2012-10-15, 01:44 PM

People would still specialize because things have to get done.

So you would have Monks that take skills that are cross class skills simply because even though they normally wouldn't be considered good at something, they would be compared to anyone else.

You'd have to look at Feats available in books allowed and look for strange ways to differentiate one character from the next. Again, strange trees of feats would be found because the character could leverage some ability that no one else would normally take. In world where everyone is blind, the one eyed man is king.

I would look to add some prestige classes back in, just to give people reasons to differentiate and specialize themselves from one another.

My mechanically I worry that players would not enjoy their characters being so similar to other PC's. No one would feel like they had roles. Characters wouldn't feel individual.

Coidzor

2012-10-15, 02:36 PM

Pretty much any craftsman or skilled person would have to have gone through an apprenticeship with a few exceptions, IIRC.

Wild Cohort would probably be really popular, since it'd practically double every humanoid's survivability, making the society more closely resemble pokemon, possibly.

HunterOfJello

2012-10-15, 02:46 PM

Randomguy

2012-10-15, 02:58 PM

My mechanically I worry that players would not enjoy their characters being so similar to other PC's. No one would feel like they had roles. Characters wouldn't feel individual.

Actually think that if everyone was a monk, then people would have to differentiate their characters more, so we'd get a bunch of monk builds that we don't normally see. Like a strength based monk with the ACF that lets you do double damage as a full round action, a grapple monk, an archer monk, an int based skillmonky, and so on.

Dusk Eclipse

2012-10-15, 03:03 PM

As per the OP there are no variant classes, so you can only differentiate your characters by skills, feat and race.. which in case for monk doesn't do much, their few strengths are scattered around a lot of variants ACF, etc.

Talionis

2012-10-15, 03:45 PM

Actually think that if everyone was a monk, then people would have to differentiate their characters more, so we'd get a bunch of monk builds that we don't normally see. Like a strength based monk with the ACF that lets you do double damage as a full round action, a grapple monk, an archer monk, an int based skillmonky, and so on.

I think we are saying the same thing. I was just saying its not easy with Monk. Players may need to be pushed to optimize the different rolls. Its much easier to specialize with say Wizard or Sorcerer.

I was just hoping that he would open up more ways to give the PC's more options. Prestige classes would be one way.

Arcanist

2012-10-15, 06:19 PM

^: Particleverse?

Just a tiny reference to the OP :smallredface: (Particle_Man).

Sponson

2012-10-15, 07:13 PM

One of the biggest changes is that commoners will no longer die to the common house cat.

demigodus

2012-10-15, 07:43 PM

One of the biggest changes is that commoners will no longer die to the common house cat.

Yes, now that house cats have monk levels, they will be completely harmless :smallbiggrin:

Hecuba

2012-10-15, 08:37 PM

There would be vanishingly few magic items. Dragons and ... maybe rakshasas? ... would be the only things capable of crafting them naturally; otherwise it would need to be an Ancestral Relic, and that's only for weapons.

You could manage to get a fair supply made through heritage feats and\or racial SLAs. Actually, mostly the and on this part-- Fiendish Heritage and Fey Heritage would seem the soundest way to meet the caster level requirements for the crafting feats.,

Sponson

2012-10-15, 08:43 PM

Yes, now that house cats have monk levels, they will be completely harmless :smallbiggrin:

Well, it would be a lot fairer ;P

The Glyphstone

2012-10-15, 08:48 PM

Monsters that gain natural spellcasting from RHD like Dragons, Driders, Archons, etc. would just rule everything.

Anything with spellcasting would live in nice, tall, and completely smooth towers that couldn't be scaled.

Would they exist, though? All those monsters with natural spellcasting 'cast as an X-level Y" - if there are no such thing as Y, what happens? Do they instead get innate Monk levels equal to the spellcaster level they would have?

Acanous

2012-10-15, 08:52 PM

The Abyssal Heritor feats would see a lot more play. Sure you'd HAVE to take [Ordered Chaos], but a guerunteed way to get a fly speed, in a setting where you pretty much can't?

DemonRoach

2012-10-15, 08:54 PM

Monsters that gain natural spellcasting from RHD like Dragons, Driders, Archons, etc. would just rule everything.

Anything with spellcasting would live in nice, tall, and completely smooth towers that couldn't be scaled.

ENTER THE BALANCE SKILL!

http://img.timeinc.net/time/photoessays/2010/human_pyramid/human_pyramid_02.jpg

Arcanist

2012-10-15, 09:31 PM

Well, it would be a lot fairer ;P

When your coffee has pee in it, peeing in someone elses doesn't make your coffee taste any less like pee.

Would they exist, though? All those monsters with natural spellcasting 'cast as an X-level Y" - if there are no such thing as Y, what happens? Do they instead get innate Monk levels equal to the spellcaster level they would have?

Well, I'd be willing to argue that because you can't advance your RHD as a Dragon you cannot be anything greater then a Wyrmling, but that is a discussion for another thread :smallsigh:

The Glyphstone

2012-10-16, 08:27 AM

When your coffee has pee in it, peeing in someone elses doesn't make your coffee taste any less like pee.

Well, I'd be willing to argue that because you can't advance your RHD as a Dragon you cannot be anything greater then a Wyrmling, but that is a discussion for another thread :smallsigh:

Monster HD as in the MM were called out in the OP as an exception, though. So you could still gain dragon hit dice, they just wouldn't end up giving you sorcerer spellcasting.

Rejakor

2012-10-16, 09:25 AM

I'm gonna run this world.

World where everyone is organized, both the criminals and good-doers following a strict social and moral code - where unknowably powerful elder beings that live for a long time are the true controllers of society, and where people must work long and hard to be skilled at talents which then make them valuable in a society where nearly everyone is similar...

That's the best snapshot of feudal japan i've ever seen in a roleplaying game.

Andreaz

2012-10-16, 09:28 AM

What if Everyone was a monk?
I cannot answer that right now, but for the sake of having something more playable than a monk, say that the monk is the new npc class and only extremely rare few rise above (the pcs): The Sohei (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10640937#post10640937).

Arbane

2012-10-16, 06:52 PM

Imagine a setting where the standard phb core monk is the only character class .

You should be playing Legend of the Wulin, not D&D. :smalltongue:

Or even the late, lamented Dragonfist (a D&D2 hack for kungfu).

Hecuba

2012-10-16, 08:54 PM

You could manage to get a fair supply made through heritage feats and\or racial SLAs. Actually, mostly the and on this part-- Fiendish Heritage and Fey Heritage would seem the soundest way to meet the caster level requirements for the crafting feats.

On this element: do'oh-- I forgot Dragonmarks. With them folded in, most of the truly necessary spells should at least be available as SLAs and thus as items.

The problem is using the items, preferably without a UMD check. Arcane Schooling can manage the arcane side well enough. Does anyone know of an analogous feat for divine spell trigger items?

Urpriest

2012-10-16, 09:03 PM

Most races/monsters probably wouldn't exist, since nobody can cast Origin of Species.

dextercorvia

2012-10-16, 09:38 PM

Most races/monsters probably wouldn't exist, since nobody can cast Origin of Species.

A Naenhoon Illumian Monk with Magical Training, Keeper of the Forbidden Lore, Knowledge Devotion, Planar Touchstone (Catalogs of Enlightenment--DLCS Sun Domain), and Extra Turning qualifies for Epic Spellcasting at ECL 21.

We can still make all the weird creatures you want.

Edit: It was implied, but I forgot to add Heighten Spell to the list of feats.

SaintRidley

2012-10-16, 11:48 PM

TuggyNE

2012-10-17, 12:01 AM

Axier

2012-10-17, 07:54 AM

I could totally do a campagin setting of this, so long as we where using ACFs and PF archetypes...

Other than that, it would be a kinda boring secenario.

@SaintRidley: Epic win for you.

darksolitaire

2012-10-17, 08:13 AM

The Glyphstone

2012-10-17, 12:21 PM

Do they get to pick Incarnum, Binding, or casting feats like Magical Training/Precocious Apprentice/Hidden Talent? I bet some monks who happen to roll for their ability scores in specific order and end up with high intelligence somehow weasel in some casting for themselves...

Pretty sure that's violating the spirit of the thought experiment - it's not that casting exists and no one's learned it, but that there is no such thing as wizards/sorcerers/clerics (and by extension, no spell lists for such).

Kaustic

2012-10-17, 03:04 PM

1) Monks all around
2) Balance and Jump checks EVERYWHERE
3)????
4)Hardcore Parkour

kitcik

2012-10-17, 03:08 PM

1) Monks all around
2) Balance and Jump checks EVERYWHERE
3)????
4)Hardcore Parkour

1) All parts of a monk's body are weapons.
2) Walls, railings, roofs and such have hardness and HP.
3) ???
4) The world is quickly reduced to rubble.

TuggyNE

2012-10-17, 04:36 PM

1) All parts of a monk's body are weapons.
2) Walls, railings, roofs and such have hardness and HP.
3) ???
4) The world is quickly reduced to rubble.

Unless everyone is stupid enough to roll attacks against structures, that won't happen. Or do you assume anyone with Improved Unarmed Strike is constantly smashing the stones under their feet, killing anyone they hug, and crushing all the chairs they sit on?

kitcik

2012-10-17, 05:00 PM

Unless everyone is stupid enough to roll attacks against structures, that won't happen. Or do you assume anyone with Improved Unarmed Strike is constantly smashing the stones under their feet, killing anyone they hug, and crushing all the chairs they sit on?

Having parkour performed on them is not the intended use of those objects, unlike floors being walked on, chairs being sat in and people being hugged.

Parkour includes high impact actions.

Perform enough parkour on something and it will break (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO1ApEegttU).

In a world of monks, the parkour-related strikes would have a much higher impact.

That said, the above post WAS A JOKE. Take off your hat!

Feralventas

2012-10-17, 05:20 PM

In place of alignments, opposing cultures and inheritances from supernatural creatures will define cultures and morals. Monks who take Fey heritage feats will dedicate themselves to tricking people with truth, and taking stewardship of the natural lands and magical places. Abyssal he rigors will seek the skies, while exalted communities are few since their Vow of Poverty sustains and empowers them; with demon-disciples in the sky while saints walk, traditional ideals of positive being high and negative low are reversed.

Draconic inheritors act as favored servants of the settings true rulers, while Aberrant monks guard the secrets of their horrific masters.

vartan

2012-10-17, 05:28 PM

I'll give them martial arts. I'll give them the most spectacular martial arts anyone's ever seen! And when I'm old and I've had my fun, I'll set up a monastery so that everyone can be a monk. Everyone can be a monk! And when everyone's a monk, no one will be.

This made my day after a few minutes of thinking "what is that from!?"

Some cross class skill issues could be resolved with Kung Fu Genius and Able Learner. An int based monk would have enough points to pump umd or heal and address some societal deficiencies.

Barring an all wizard or sorcerer world this would be fun. Unless you want to run a City of Thieves style world a la Adventure Time.

toapat

2012-10-17, 05:31 PM

Midgard Dwarves would conquer the multiverse in a matter of generations.

It is hard to compete with Psionic Artificer: The Race

TuggyNE

2012-10-17, 05:41 PM

In a world of monks, the parkour-related strikes would have a much higher impact.

This is, essentially, the part I didn't (and still don't) get. The ability to focus kinetic energy through your limbs when needed to attack enemies in no way translates to an automatic increase in property damage. This is especially weird because the entire idea of (nearly all) martial arts is self-control and precision, not reckless pounding on whatever happens to be around.

So no, unless you assume that the monks are deliberately trying to cause as much damage as possible, that just won't happen. In fact, precisely the opposite should be expected.

That said, the above post WAS A JOKE. Take off your hat!

Yeah yeah, I just have a high bar for humor: it has to make sense in a way as well as be funny. :smalltongue: (Even nonsense has to have its own internal consistency for me to find it interesting; c.f. Lewis Carroll.)

The Glyphstone

2012-10-17, 05:51 PM

This is, essentially, the part I didn't (and still don't) get. The ability to focus kinetic energy through your limbs when needed to attack enemies in no way translates to an automatic increase in property damage. This is especially weird because the entire idea of (nearly all) martial arts is self-control and precision, not reckless pounding on whatever happens to be around.

So no, unless you assume that the monks are deliberately trying to cause as much damage as possible, that just won't happen. In fact, precisely the opposite should be expected.

Yeah yeah, I just have a high bar for humor: it has to make sense in a way as well as be funny. :smalltongue: (Even nonsense has to have its own internal consistency for me to find it interesting; c.f. Lewis Carroll.)

Well, high-enough level Monks hit with the strength of adamantine - that might result in the occasional unintentional bit of damage that'd add up over time...

Also, shame on this thread, for no one has yet linked the official campaign setting theme song. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhUkGIsKvn0)

Morph Bark

2012-10-17, 06:05 PM

This all sounds kind of like Exalted to me, but without the Exalted.

GreenSerpent

2012-10-17, 06:37 PM

You know, this is actually sounding more and more appealing.

Talionis

2012-10-17, 09:39 PM

Pretty sure that's violating the spirit of the thought experiment - it's not that casting exists and no one's learned it, but that there is no such thing as wizards/sorcerers/clerics (and by extension, no spell lists for such).

Is it? You could take all 20 levels in monk and meet the requirements for the Incarnum feats.they could add a lot to Monk characters who don't have great ways to diversify. Monks basically have to diversify with feats. With as many feats as it takes to do Incarnum, you'd only get a few Soulmelds. I doubt you would be broken, but you would be unique and it would help to get abilities and skills not found among most normal monks.

Dusk Eclipse

2012-10-17, 10:16 PM

You know, this is actually sounding more and more appealing.

As per the OP of n variants and no ACF, I would pass. Monk's stengths are in their ACF, you can make a superb sneaker with 9 monk level invisible fist+ dark moon monk is pretty badass, invisiblility (condition, not spell) once every 3 rounds? blink once every 3 eounds? full concealment unless under direct sunlight? some interesting feat options (martial or wild monk from dragon can help a lot), ad some sort of sneak attack class rogue or even swordsage would help a lot.

The Glyphstone

2012-10-17, 10:16 PM

Is it? You could take all 20 levels in monk and meet the requirements for the Incarnum feats.they could add a lot to Monk characters who don't have great ways to diversify. Monks basically have to diversify with feats. With as many feats as it takes to do Incarnum, you'd only get a few Soulmelds. I doubt you would be broken, but you would be unique and it would help to get abilities and skills not found among most normal monks.

I meant the 'sneaky ways to get full casting' via stuff like Precocious Apprentice+Practiced Spellcaster into a Prestige class or whatever. Dipping things like Incarnum or Binding would be fine.

Rejakor

2012-10-18, 01:25 AM

Feats to get incarnum and binding = The Monks of this society. Monks are credited as having access to strange powers with strange requirements due to acts of force of will. Sure, EVERYONE can slow fall - but can they breathe fire? These guys can!

Blue Lantern

2012-10-18, 05:02 AM

Everyone is a mnok uh...

Good one will be a little better off with vow of poverty (because no magic item)

Evil ones will probalby just kill themselves, the chance to become a lemure will be a powerful bait.

Neutral ones will kill themselves out of desperation.

TuggyNE

2012-10-18, 05:18 AM

gkathellar

2012-10-18, 10:37 AM

If Phaerimm were present in the setting, then they would succeed in their mission of "kill everything but us." If they're not present, Black Ethergaunts will do it instead.

The Glyphstone

2012-10-18, 11:36 AM

If Phaerimm were present in the setting, then they would succeed in their mission of "kill everything but us." If they're not present, Black Ethergaunts will do it instead.

Both of those have innate spellcasting abilities, so they'd be excluded from existing by default.

gkathellar

2012-10-18, 03:05 PM

Both of those have innate spellcasting abilities, so they'd be excluded from existing by default.

The OP never stated that as a condition.

Morph Bark

2012-10-18, 03:16 PM

The OP never stated that as a condition.

No, but it's an indirect consequence. All monsters that have spellcasting have spellcasting "as a level X [class name]". If those classes don't exist, the monsters cannot cast spells as if they were a member of those classes.

Similarly, you might have the same superpowers as a fnarglscnub, but if fnarglscnub don't exist, those superpowers can't either.

TuggyNE

2012-10-18, 10:50 PM

Similarly, you might have the same superpowers as a fnarglscnub, but if fnarglscnub don't exist, those superpowers can't either.

Sadly, those are the exact superpowers I have. :smallsigh:

toapat

2012-10-18, 11:00 PM

No, but it's an indirect consequence. All monsters that have spellcasting have spellcasting "as a level X [class name]". If those classes don't exist, the monsters cannot cast spells as if they were a member of those classes.

Similarly, you might have the same superpowers as a fnarglscnub, but if fnarglscnub don't exist, those superpowers can't either.

the interesting thing is, as a result, Midgard Dwarves become the most powerful group in the multiverse, as, as i have said, Psionic Artificer: The Race.

and their ability to craft is likewise similar to the Artificer's CL but not

The Glyphstone

2012-10-19, 12:00 AM

the interesting thing is, as a result, Midgard Dwarves become the most powerful group in the multiverse, as, as i have said, Psionic Artificer: The Race.

and their ability to craft is likewise similar to the Artificer's CL but not

If they don't specifically reference the Artificer, then yeah, they will be awesome...assuming there are still spell lists without classes that use them. But removing all magic items entirely would push the premise further than I think the OP intended, so let's no go there.

toapat

2012-10-19, 12:18 AM

If they don't specifically reference the Artificer, then yeah, they will be awesome...assuming there are still spell lists without classes that use them. But removing all magic items entirely would push the premise further than I think the OP intended, so let's no go there.

They start with all Non-Consumable crafting feats and are considered to have every spell and the exact caster level required to craft any given item, even if that item does not have strict crafting requirements.

which is probably a good thing few people play them, seeing as they can just scribe Wizadin scrolls (SotAO scrolls) as an Archivist, and then scribe the scroll into the prayerbook

Hecuba

2012-10-19, 12:23 AM

If they don't specifically reference the Artificer, then yeah, they will be awesome...assuming there are still spell lists without classes that use them. But removing all magic items entirely would push the premise further than I think the OP intended, so let's no go there.

Actually, unless I'm misreading the text, it does not reference lists. They do not create items as if they were casters who could.
Rather they can create the item even if they do not meet the requirements to do so, including spell availability.

LordBlades

2012-10-19, 12:57 AM

Actually, unless I'm misreading the text, it does not reference lists. They do not create items as if they were casters who could.
Rather they can create the item even if they do not meet the requirements to do so, including spell availability.

That's what I'm getting from the text too.

Master Smith (Ex): Midgard dwarves gain Craft Magic
Arms and Armor, Craft Wondrous Item, and Forge Ring as
bonus feats. They are considered to possess the prerequisites
necessary to craft any magic item of those types, even if they
do not otherwise meet the requirements or have the ability
to cast the necessary spells.

Enter dwarven armies of doom armed to the teeth with magic items everybody else had no idea they could even exist.

Rickshaw

2012-10-19, 08:17 AM

I kind of envision the world being much more divided into territories where things like Gold/Silver dragon alliances rule fiefdoms of humanoids (and I suppose something else ruling the evil monks.) thing is, the good alliances might be a good deal more powerful as they would be willing to share their albeit rare magical creations for the betterment of the whole (see LG,) whereas LE would be much more inclined to rule over others with said magical devises.

it also might turn out like communist Russia.

Hecuba

2012-10-19, 08:19 AM

That's what I'm getting from the text too.

Master Smith (Ex): Midgard dwarves gain Craft Magic
Arms and Armor, Craft Wondrous Item, and Forge Ring as
bonus feats. They are considered to possess the prerequisites
necessary to craft any magic item of those types, even if they
do not otherwise meet the requirements or have the ability
to cast the necessary spells.

Enter dwarven armies of doom armed to the teeth with magic items everybody else had no idea they could even exist.

I wouldn't go that far. Even a small availability of spell-like abilities should allow most of the truely important magical items and effects.

Heck, I would consider the Fiendish Heritage chain to be ideal for Evil!Monk Order. And that means they can have ready access to teleport and Unholy Blight as long as they keep a small base of crafters they can throw the SLAs at to make the items.

It certainly wouldn't be as easy as usual to create such items, particularly on a PC\party scale, but the path is readily available and I think it's reasonable to presume that most major powers can produce them as needed. Midguard dwarves would have an advantage, but not an insurmountable one.

Killer Angel

2012-10-19, 08:26 AM

Monk is no worse than Commoner,

but commoners got chickens!

GolemsVoice

2012-10-19, 08:32 AM

Everybody would be kung-fu fighting?

only1doug

2012-10-19, 08:46 AM

I'll give them martial arts. I'll give them the most spectacular martial arts anyone's ever seen! And when I'm old and I've had my fun, I'll set up a monastery so that everyone can be a monk. Everyone can be a monk! And when everyone's a monk, no one will be.

Every time I see this thread now I keep hearing this speech (running through my head), Awesome but kinda wierd... Thanks so much Syndrome

toapat

2012-10-19, 09:22 AM

I wouldn't go that far. Even a small availability of spell-like abilities should allow most of the truely important magical items and effects.

Heck, I would consider the Fiendish Heritage chain to be ideal for Evil!Monk Order. And that means they can have ready access to teleport and Unholy Blight as long as they keep a small base of crafters they can throw the SLAs at to make the items.

It certainly wouldn't be as easy as usual to create such items, particularly on a PC\party scale, but the path is readily available and I think it's reasonable to presume that most major powers can produce them as needed. Midguard dwarves would have an advantage, but not an insurmountable one.

If we are going from a description accurate piece, the Midgard Dwarves would basically Inherit their parent's WBL. Alignment of Lawful Neutral with their "Work with outsiders only when necessary" would mean they would eventually get enough magical equipment to field a 30 man kungfu ubersquad

Everybody would be kung-fu fighting?

the Glyphstone beat you to it

GolemsVoice

2012-10-19, 09:36 AM

I knew it. Damn.

willpell

2012-10-19, 10:37 AM

This makes me wonder if people would play a Monk if you were allowed to gestalt it for free onto any other class, on the assumption that it represents "inner human(oid) potential" that anyone can unlock even while pursuing a Wizard career. You'd still have the need for Lawful alignment and no armor, so it wouldn't be all-upside, but it'd give anyone the option of improving to d8s and 3/4 bab, with Flurry of Blows as a decent full attack option from 9th level up. The Monk is a pretty nice class, after all, apart from the downside of having to spend entire levels earning it. I think it'd be flavorfully fitting to say that everyone has the Monk inside them, if they choose to tap into it.