Skill Monkey

[ExemplarofAvg]

Now though my foray(4a) into 4.E has been brief, I know that there are no real skill monkeys, I would like to know though what is the maximum number of skills you can have trained (up to all of them) and how do I do it?

[Mandrake]

I wanted to talk about two ways of achieving this, but I'll leave that for later.

THE BEST WAY
Make a race that has +2 bonus to 2 different skills, class is Bard. Bard gives you a lot of skills to begin with and an additional +1 to all untrained skill checks. Don't train in those skills race gives you benefit. Mutliclass into a Rogue, take random skill again. Take Jack of All Trades feat. Paragon Path into Jack of All Trades (provided by Rogue). Use other feats to either improve your possessed skills, or take those that you don't already have. Although one might argue that those improvements of untrained skills don't stack with Jack of All Trades (such as Alertness), you should take Arcane Familiar, because you can pretend that that bonus you get to skills isn't a feat bonus, but a familiar bonus (?). This is, I repeat, a bit on the lame side.

To sum up - you end up being really good at all the skills you don't know:

+1 from Bard
+2 from feat Jack of All Trades
+2 from paragon path Jack of All Trades (this goes to trained ones as well).

Meanwhile, you can further use multiclass bardish thingy to get trained in even more skills, increasing their value, though it won't stack with feat Jack of All Trades or Bardish benefit, so it's basically just a +2 improvement.

Also, remember using kits (being prepared is everything) and magic items, of course.

I hope this helps, and if anyone has anything to add, please do.


EDIT
And utilities. Exchange your utilities for useful skill-like utilities (which you get from multiclassing). I'm looking at you, Spider Climb. Or, you can go to PHB 3 and take skill utilities that enable you to (occasionally, which is enough) use a skill instead of some other skill. Check, for example, Try the Stick utility power in that book.

[NecroRebel]

Bard is probably your best bet. There are 17 skills total. A human bard starts with 6 (Arcana+4 for Bard, +1 for Human), and bards can take any number of multiclass feats, and many MC feats give training in a class skill for the class that's being MCed into. Most of those that don't give a specific skill, which makes it somewhat harder to get a skill that you're missing, but it's still not too bad.

Technically, any character can get training in every skill by level 22 (I believe), as, as mentioned, there are 17 skills and that's the point that you get your 14th feat. I'm 75% sure that the minimum number of trained skills for a L1 character is 3, so 3 base +14 for feats would be all of them. However, most of those feats would be practically useless Skill Training feats, which is why Bard is preferable; you actually get something for those MC feats instead of just the training.

However, if you don't actually care if you're trained and just want a decent bonus in all skills, Bard is definitely the way to go. They get a natural +1 bonus to all untrained skill checks, and there's a feat in DR383 (Bard of All Trades) that gives another +3 feat bonus to untrained skill checks, meaning that for the cost of 1 feat, you get nearly trained-level bonuses in all skills.

[Mandrake]

Wow, I didn't know about that Bard feat!

Yeah, so just scrap Jack of All Trades feat and take that Bard's feat, for an even more amazing ownage.

BUT DO NOT MAKE A HUMAN

because with a Human you get training in a skill (earning a +5 benefit) which doesn't stack with either the feat or the class feature of a bard (+4 benefit, apparently).

If you make a, say, Tiefling, you get +2 to Bluff and Stealth, that stack with +4 bonus.

So it's either 1 skill with +5 or two skills with +6.

Note on Eladrins
Just to point out if someone gets the idea - yes, Eladrins get +2 to Arcane and History and a skill training in any skill. But it isn't that cool since Bard has Arcana as a must. Although cool it is.

[ExemplarofAvg]

I thought Human Rogue was the best, grants Stealth and Thievery +5
Assuming at least a 12 in every stat.
Jack of All Trades feat.
7 skills at +7
10 skills at +4

That's Level 1
Based on my learning
+1 Ability + 1/2 level (rounded up) + 5 trained
+1 Ability + 1/2 level (rounded up) + 2 Feat

But what's yours look like on a level by level basis.

[Kurald Galain]

A good way to do it is to max out your Arcana skill (not all that hard) and then take all the feats and powers that let you use Arcana in the place of bluff, stealth, perception, and so forth.

The way the game works, there is no real benefit to having more than five or six skills trained.

[ExemplarofAvg]

Those feats being?
My knowledge of 4e isn't quite at encyclopedic level yet.

[tcrudisi]

Those feats being?
My knowledge of 4e isn't quite at encyclopedic level yet.

Old, but still viable:

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/27721621/Comprehensive_Skill_Substitution_List

Want to know how to optimize Arcana? This will help:

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19647002/Arcana_skill_optimization

[Mandrake]

I must insist, but just check the Jack of All Trades Paragon Path in Martial Power 2, for Rogue (your multiclass). You take Bard so that you can get both +1 from his class feature to untrained skills, and access what NecroRebel posted - that cool feat in Dragon Magazine 383.

Again, do not make a human! You Jack of All Trades doesn't apply here. It is futile attempting to mash up as many skills taken by feats, instead go for a solid +6 bonus to untrained skills (which is, basically, better than trained) at level 11. And you make a race that grants you a +2 to that which stacks!

I understand that by making a human you get an extra skill, but that just opposite to what you want - you don't want more skills that you are specialized in, you want to be good in all of the skills.

Also, note that with human, you'd probably have 8, not 7 skills at first level trained, since you'd probably spend that Human Feat on some multiclass or skill training anyway.


Still, I argue in favor of non-human Bard, multiclass Rogue, Bard of All Trades, Jack of All Trades paragon path, because, frankly, it's just cheaper (I still consider it more effective, too). This way, you get +6 to all untrained skills (and some more to trained) and you spend only two feats!

If you want to be trained in all the skills, you'd need a Human Rogue with many more feats expended(and you get that same damn bonus, maybe even worse), and like this:

6 from Rogue, 1 from Human, 3 trained on level 16 from Jack of All Trades paragon path feature, 7 feats into skills. 7 feats into skills.


Again, correct me if I'm wrong with somewhere. It happens. :smallwink: