Archivists or Cleric

[Pandyman]

Right now I have a few ideas in mind, and since my DM hasn't limited me yet, I feel i might try to be a little cheesy. I am however, determining whether i should go with Archivists for the versatile spell list or cleric. I don't really have a reason to support Cleric off the top of my head other than the extra health and armor, but that can easily be fixed by archivist magic.

Also, I have the list of lowest level versions of divine spells that are non-cleric, but it seems that I'm having trouble finding the "Archivist Spells to drool over" by Pfooti. So if anyone has that link or a similar link, it'd be much appreciated. I'm looking for the best and most obscure spells, since that's what makes the archivist so good.

Build suggestions are also welcome, but I'm not too worried about how to build an archivist or cleric. I'm just debating on which one would ultimately be better to make. Are there any reasons I should pick a Cleric over an Archivist, or is Archivist the better choice to cheesify.

[eggs]

Here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=185.0;msg=611)'s the spell section in the current Archivist's Handbook.

I tend to prefer Clerics, as with a few bonus domains and the Substitute Domain spell from complete Champion, they effectively have almost any spell wanted, but without the reliance on GM generosity/Magic Marts. Plus free metamagic.

EDIT:
Also, here (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=12661)'s a link to a detailed list of spells at minimum levels. Unfortunately, it doesn't clearly delineate Arcane/Divine, but you could cross-reference the interesting entries with the caster-class index (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8664) to see what's legit without putting in too much work.

[Slipperychicken]

If you like being a Wizard (i.e. destroying all your problems with mind-numbing ease and maintaining an ever-growing spellbook), be an Archivist. Remind your DM that the crafter of a scroll does not have to know the spell involved, just have someone contribute it to the crafting (to avoid the "Why would a Divine Bard take Scribe Scroll and make scrolls for you?" argument).

If you don't like worrying about spellbooks, or having your obscure spell choice DM-blocked, be a Cleric.


All Clerics can spontaneously cast Sanctified spells, as per BoED. These mostly suck, but you get them for free, so it's worth a read. One or two good effects like Luminous Armor (Upgraded Mage Armor; your Wizard will love you) and Valiant Steed (Free Unicorns!). An Archivist can, of course, learn these spells.

Archivists can find pretty much any arcane spell on a domain list somewhere, so dig hard enough and you will be rewarded. Doing this basically makes you a Wizard+, so beware. If your group is not high-op (i.e. "Wizards suck because of their d4 HD", "Monks/Rogues are overpowered"...), just forget about it.

[Gavinfoxx]

You are going to have to ask the GM a LOT of questions about rarity of divine scrolls, and cost multipliers for obtaining them at character creation (assuming you start at a level higher than 1 and have wealth by level).

See if you can figure out rarity of divine spells from these various sources:

-Cleric
-Paladin
-Ranger
-Druid
-Cleric Domains
-Initiate Feats
-Divine Bard
-Adept
-Cloistered Cleric
-Cleric with Divine Magician feat
-Shugenja
-Divine Prestige classes
-Wizard with Geomancer levels
-Sorcerer with Geomancer levels
-Wizard with Alternative Source Spell feat
-Sorcerer with Alternative Source Spell feat
-Wizard with Southern Magician Feat
-Sorcerer with Southern Magician feat
-Arcane prestige classes that add spells or have spells earlier than wizard/sorcerer could get them, with either of those three options
-Warlock of high enough level with Scribe Scroll and either those three options

Also, see if you can figure out if Collegiate Archivist (ie, collegiate wizard for archivist) is available. Also Academic Priest.

Or for Cleric, see if you can figure out if Cloistered Cleric is available.

[Coidzor]

Depends on how your DM is going to play them, really, if all you care about is the dairy content.

[Pandyman]

Too bad i can't force my dm to give me festering anger and go illumian to get my strength to my bonus spells. But I'll check on how cooperative my DM is gonna be with me, and I'll get back with you guys. If he won't cooperate, I guess cleric would be the better way to go.

I like being a divine wizard though. so maybe i can cheese it enough to make my DM sad that he wouldn't work with me. That's prolly the worst way to think, he'll rue the day he messed with me! lol

[LanSlyde]

Too bad i can't force my dm to give me festering anger and go illumian to get my strength to my bonus spells. But I'll check on how cooperative my DM is gonna be with me, and I'll get back with you guys. If he won't cooperate, I guess cleric would be the better way to go.

I like being a divine wizard though. so maybe i can cheese it enough to make my DM sad that he wouldn't work with me. That's prolly the worst way to think, he'll rue the day he messed with me! lol

As someone above has stated, wizards and archivists run into the same problem that your spell list is basically DM controlled. If you can't find any scrolls of X then you really can't add too much to your books. So yeah, he'll probably let you play an archivist. It just means your giving a very easy way to keep your power in check.

Clerics bro, its the way to go. a solid d8, 3/4 BAB for those times when Divine Power is down (it happens). Light, medium, and heavy armor and shield proficiency (sans tower shield). Spell list is whatever you need it to be without having to find the spell ingame first. Spontaneous heals for those times your party is stupid. Or spontaneous domain spells if you really want some more versatility. OR if your PCs like imbibing random liquids (turns out it was concentrated Black Lotus poison |-_-|) try your hand at the spontaneous restoration ACF.

Point being, I have a major Murder Boner for clerics and you should really, really, really look into playing one. Also, don't go cloistered cleric. Yes, you can supplement your shortcomings with magic. However in my experience whenever you have a large number of Persisted effects up the DM likes smacking the guy glowing like the sun with magical power with a bunch of Greater Dispels.

[Slipperychicken]

I like being a divine wizard though. so maybe i can cheese it enough to make my DM sad that he wouldn't work with me. That's prolly the worst way to think, he'll rue the day he messed with me! lol

Pro Tip: Never have an arms race with the DM. Try not to scare him, either. They do really stupid, awful things when they're scared. Especially if they're in the ban-stage of DM-development. You have been warned.

Pro Tip II: Never, ever, EVER brag about your character. Not only is it completely obnoxious (and makes you look like a tool), but the DM will throw harder fights at you that will probably crush the rest of the party.

Pro Tip III: Rethink playing a battlefield-control character when your game doesn't use a battle map. You will still be effective, but not nearly as much.

Pro Tip IV: Never forget your defenses. Wizards/Archivists are squishy, and have bad AC, so try to always have flight (Levitate works fine in earlier levels. Screw Melee), a casting of Resist Energy, a Miss Chance, and Mirror Image if you can.


The best way to play a Wizard (or Archivist) is in the background. Use CC and buffs, solve utility issues, let the Fighter roll his dice and think he won. Don't take over the Fighter's role, just make his job easier. Don't worry about your frontliners getting into pissing contests over damage, AC, hit points, w/e.. You're playing a different game.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Pro Tip: Never have an arms race with the DM. Try not to scare him, either. They do really stupid, awful things when they're scared. Especially if they're in the ban-stage of DM-development. You have been warned.

Pro Tip II: Never, ever, EVER brag about your character. Not only is it completely obnoxious (and makes you look like a tool), but the DM will throw harder fights at you that will probably crush the rest of the party.

Pro Tip III: Rethink playing a battlefield-control character when your game doesn't use a battle map. You will still be effective, but not nearly as much.

Pro Tip IV: Never forget your defenses. Wizards/Archivists are squishy, and have bad AC, so try to always have flight (Levitate works fine in earlier levels. Screw Melee), a casting of Resist Energy, a Miss Chance, and Mirror Image if you can.


The best way to play a Wizard (or Archivist) is in the background. Use CC and buffs, solve utility issues, let the Fighter roll his dice and think he won. Don't take over the Fighter's role, just make his job easier. Don't worry about your frontliners getting into pissing contests over damage, AC, hit points, w/e.. You're playing a different game.

Listen to this poster, for he is wise in the ways of wizardry. (read; this is all really solid advice. Take it to heart if you don't want problems at your gaming table.)

[Mithril Leaf]

Listen to this poster, for he is wise in the ways of wizardry. (read; this is all really solid advice. Take it to heart if you don't want problems at your gaming table.)

Heartily seconded.

[LadyLexi]

Heartily seconded.

Agreed, especially from a DM perspective. You don't want assassins attacking you in camp. I don't want to throw them. :smalltongue:

[hennasmith]

I typically play a cleric, and love it, except that my party expects healing spells, and my DM is pretty strict about alignment, so if I can cast healing/good spells, casting an evil type spell would kill my alignment and cause me to "fall", or at least get a major smackdown from my diety. Which sucks, because I much prefer to play Chaotic Evil... We're currently talking out if I can play an archivist in his upcoming game, and I'm hoping he'll ok it, since there's no alignment restrictions on the archivist.

So... I guess what I'm trying to say is how strict is your DM when it comes to alignments and clerics? And does it work ok with your playing style? Might be worth playing an archivist if you run into the same cleric issues I have.