Is there a feat that changes the school of a spell?

[starship1]

Im trying to change "haste" to abjuration for a gestalt abjurant champ / swiftblade.

[darksolitaire]

No. Spells are put to spell schools because of the effects they create. Abjurations create effects out of thin air, while transmutations change things already present, so there wouldn't be much sense in Abjuration-haste.

There is Transmuter variant which allows wizard to learn spells from other schools as transmutation spells, but that's all I know. If you're after swift action haste, there's Swift Haste as second level Ranger spell.

[Starbuck_II]

There is Transmuter variant which allows wizard to learn spells from other schools as transmutation spells, but that's all I know. If you're after swift action haste, there's Swift Haste as second level Ranger spell.

He'd need an (arcane) Archivist to cast Haste from a Ranger spell.

[starship1]

im a focused specialist abjurer/master specialist/swiftblade/ abjurant champian so that would by great if i had all my abujation goodies on the haste spell for an great 1 trick pony.

so no metamagic feat? no class feature?

[rypt]

im a focused specialist abjurer/master specialist/swiftblade/ abjurant champian

You do realize this isn't RAW possible from the get go, right? Swiftblade requires you to expend all of your 3rd level spell slots on haste. As an abjurer, you cannot prepare anything but abjuration spells (i.e. not haste) in your specialization bonus spell-slot.

EDIT: I guess I should note that I'm assuming you've already got the character and are trying to find a way to get haste to benefit from your Abjurant Champion class features.

[Thiyr]

You do realize this isn't RAW possible from the get go, right? Swiftblade requires you to expend all of your 3rd level spell slots on haste. As an abjurer, you cannot prepare anything but abjuration spells (i.e. not haste) in your specialization bonus spell-slot.

EDIT: I guess I should note that I'm assuming you've already got the character and are trying to find a way to get haste to benefit from your Abjurant Champion class features.

It could still work anyway.
Special: Must have spent the entire previous level using all 3rd level spell slots to exclusively cast haste.

If it says cast, it could easily be interpreted as meaning what it literally says. If you prep dispel magic and never cast it, you're in the clear. Or if you never prepare their specialization slot, for that matter. I'd say that's reasonable, personally, as it gets the intent of the matter down (same reason I'm willing to work with the designer intent that a trapsmith can get in using their first level slots for haste, even tho it specifies 3rd level, though that's less RAW ambiguity and more unintended consequences of new content.)

that said, far as I am aware there is no such way to change schools, barring maybe something in 3rd party stuff I've not looked at. You could talk to the DM and see if you could research a version in Abjuration (perhaps with some minor thematic changes to the bonuses given or something), but otherwise you're out of luck.

[TuggyNE]

If it says cast, it could easily be interpreted as meaning what it literally says. If you prep dispel magic and never cast it, you're in the clear. Or if you never prepare their specialization slot, for that matter. I'd say that's reasonable, personally, as it gets the intent of the matter down (same reason I'm willing to work with the designer intent that a trapsmith can get in using their first level slots for haste, even tho it specifies 3rd level, though that's less RAW ambiguity and more unintended consequences of new content.)

RAW-wise, I'm fairly sure they intended you to literally prepare all slots with haste (if applicable) and then cast all those slots as haste, so technically it's not acceptable to, e.g., prepare a slot with something else, even if you never cast it. (Arguably it's fine to prepare your 3rds with haste and then never cast them, because they don't expire.) Note that the reason for the language as it stands is probably to include both prepared and spontaneous casters without awkward extra verbiage.

Common-sense-wise, having a split focus like that (i.e. specializing in mutually exclusive methods of magic) probably won't turn out very impressively, unless you can player-fiat up something about a unique result produced only by merging two seemingly-disparate areas of study (Abjuration and the haste spell), which would probably involve both spell research of an Abjuration version and adjustment of Swiftblade requirements to fit that.

[starship1]

so no metamagic feat? not an item or a dippable class feature?

This character is gonna be beast in play, this is just one side of a gestalt (heavily houseruled) while the other has fighter2/ duskblade2/ spellsword 7/ into Iot7fv:smallbiggrin:

having all my abjuration goodies on haste would make this character unstopable, save disjunction or antimagic field.:smallmad:

[rypt]

It could still work anyway.

If it says cast, it could easily be interpreted as meaning what it literally says. If you prep dispel magic and never cast it, you're in the clear. Or if you never prepare their specialization slot, for that matter. I'd say that's reasonable, personally, as it gets the intent of the matter down (same reason I'm willing to work with the designer intent that a trapsmith can get in using their first level slots for haste, even tho it specifies 3rd level, though that's less RAW ambiguity and more unintended consequences of new content.)

that said, far as I am aware there is no such way to change schools, barring maybe something in 3rd party stuff I've not looked at. You could talk to the DM and see if you could research a version in Abjuration (perhaps with some minor thematic changes to the bonuses given or something), but otherwise you're out of luck.

Nope nope nope nope nope. First of all you are, your are conflating RAW and RAI. Second of all, I think it is quite clear that your interpretation is in direct conflict with the designer's intent.

The rule you quoted says all 3rd level spell slots must be used to cast haste. Unless all of your 3rd level slots were used (which includes specialization slots), you simply do not qualify. Your interpretation would have been reasonable if the text hadn't included the word "all," but it did, and the examples you included therefore do not comply with the letter of the rules.

Addressing intent, the intention of the rule is completely transparent. The only specialist wizards intented to be able qualify for the class are transmuters. it's frankly ridiculous to assert that a focused specialist abjurer should be able to enter a prestige class focused on, and specializing in a transmutation spell. Your Trapsmith issue is not particularly relevant here as it does not involve specialization, but that issue has been explicitly addressed by the designer of the class.

[Rubik]

Research an abjuration version of Haste using the research rules?

Or the Sanctum Spell feat to make your 3rd level specialist slot count as a spell slot of a different level, so that Dispel Magic you prepared in that 3rd level specialist slot actually counts as, say, 4th level? If your 3rd level specialist slot is actually a 4th level slot, that seems like a handy way to bypass the wording, if not the intent.

[The Dark Fiddler]

Use the rules of designing your own spell to design a version of Haste that's an abjuration spell.

[Rubik]

Use the rules of designing your own spell to design a version of Haste that's an abjuration spell.Haha! Swordsaged! Swiftbladed!

[rypt]

Research an abjuration version of Haste using the research rules? Or the Sanctum Spell feat to make your 3rd level specialist slot count as a spell slot of a different level, so that Dispel Magic actually counts as, say, 4th level?

Sorry, that's not how spell slots or metamagic works. Using metamagic to prepare a 3rd level spell in a 4th level slot does not somehow move a 3rd level spell slot to 4th level.

[Rubik]

Sorry, that's not how spell slots work. Using metamagic to prepare a 3rd level spell in a 4th level slot does not somehow move that 3rd level spell slot to 4th level.But the spell you prepare is no longer a 3rd level spell. *shrug*

[mattie_p]

The rule you quoted says all 3rd level spell slots must be used to cast haste. Unless all of your 3rd level slots were used (which includes specialization slots), you simply do not qualify. Your interpretation would have been reasonable if the text hadn't included the word "all," but it did, and the examples you included therefore do not comply with the letter of the rules.

Funnily enough, if you forget to caste haste one day, or don't use all your 3rd-level spell slots one day, you don't qualify either. So best not take breaks to research a spell or make a magic item.

[rypt]

Funnily enough, if you forget to caste haste one day, or don't use all your 3rd-level spell slots one day, you don't qualify either. So best not take breaks to research a spell or make a magic item.
Ha ha! Rules!


But the spell you prepare is no longer a 3rd level spell. *shrug*
Read the rule again. It specifies spell slots.

[Ashtagon]

Use the rules of designing your own spell to design a version of Haste that's an abjuration spell.

When you consider what abjuration actually means, I'm not sure this even makes sense.

[ahenobarbi]

But the spell you prepare is no longer a 3rd level spell. *shrug*

Yes but the requirement is to use all 3rd level spell slots to cast haste (not to cast only haste of all 3rd level spell).

You could use Versatile Spellcaster to use two 3rd level slots to cast heightened haste as 4th level spell.

[Rubik]

Yes but the requirement is to use all 3rd level spell slots to cast haste (not to cast only haste of all 3rd level spell).I concede, as that is, indeed, what the wording is.


You could use Versatile Spellcaster to use two 3rd level slots to cast heightened haste as 4th level spell.This is true. Sacrifice your specialist slot.

[mattie_p]

Also, if you research an abjuration that duplicates haste, it is not haste anymore, merely a spell that duplicates its effects. Still no swiftblade.

[Rubik]

Also, if you research an abjuration that duplicates haste, it is not haste anymore, merely a spell that duplicates its effects. Still no swiftblade.Name it "Haste." Voila.

[starship1]

so no obscure feat can change the school of a single spell?

[Rubik]

so no obscure feat can change the school of a single spell?I believe there's one that converts to necromancy.

[Snowbluff]

having all my abjuration goodies on haste would make this character unstopable, save disjunction or antimagic field.:smallmad:

No.

Swiftblade's Haste effect and it's abilities are (Ex), and therefore cannot be Disjunctioned or AMFed.

Consider using an AMF to kill other people. You keep your miss chances and all that crap while Hasted.

[starship1]

this is excellent news! i had missed that for the swiftblade. i wonder if that feat that makes metamagic easier would be good enough to apply to haste: I have something like 18 feats to play with, most are predetermined though.

using 3 levels of master specialist to springboard int IotSfV is priceless

[Snowbluff]

this is excellent news! i had missed that for the swiftblade. i wonder if that feat that makes metamagic easier would be good enough to apply to haste: I have something like 18 feats to play with, most are predetermined though.

using 3 levels of master specialist to springboard int IotSfV is priceless

Haste is only a 3rd level spell. You can persist is with a 9th level slot, 8th with Practical/Easy MM. Arcane Thesis will drop the slot requirement down another.

AMF as an Master Abjurer will give you Mettle/Invasion for 6 rounds wit hthe Moderate esoterica. NO magic will work on you, and you can avoid other things that cause saves. If you do a good job making your character, your saves should turn out pretty good.

[TuggyNE]

Funnily enough, if you forget to caste haste one day, or don't use all your 3rd-level spell slots one day, you don't qualify either. So best not take breaks to research a spell or make a magic item.

That's at least debatable. If you don't cast haste, your (prepared) slots don't go away; you just don't get to refill them, they still have the same prepared haste in them. In other words, you can still be considered to have used all your 3rd-level slots, you simply got fewer of them than the days spent at that level would otherwise indicate. (Sorcerers don't get this out, of course.)

[mattie_p]

Special: Must have spent the entire previous level using all 3rd level spell slots to exclusively cast haste.

I dunno, tuggyne. If you let a day go by without casting, you didn't use all your spell slots. It's badly written, I personally think. But what do you want from a web article? The class itself isn't bad, but I'd hate to have to actually qualify for the class in a game, rather than just have it in the backstory.

[Answerer]

It's badly written, I personally think.
The author himself admitted it was badly written.

Basically, he stated the intent to have been that haste was the only spell you cast from spell slots of the level that you get haste in.

Finally, a case where arguing RAI actually makes sense!