Feats for A First-Level Fighter?

[Palanan]

I could use some advice on building a squad of soldiers who'll be serving aboard a merchant ship in my seafaring campaign. Most of them will be first-level fighters, arranged into three squads of eight men, plus three squad leaders and a captain of the guard.

I'm trying to make them reasonably effective, without becoming an overwhelming challenge. Here's what I'm thinking so far:

First-Level Soldier

I'm using fighter to represent they're well-trained by civilian standards--the cream of the dockside thugs--but nowhere near as skilled as a warblade or the like.

With a 28-point buy, we have Str 16, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 8. For feats:


1st - Weapon Focus (greatsword)
human bonus - Dauntless
fighter bonus - Improved Initiative
flaw - Rapid Assault

This would give +5 to hit, 2d6+3 damage plus 1d6 for the first round, with a range of 6-21 damage that first round, then 5-15 thereafter. Also, 18 hp isn't too bad at first level.

But the first feat is a dilemma. Weapon Focus seems pathetic, but Power Attack doesn't look any more useful. Victor's Luck was another possibility, for a sort of mini-critfishing approach, but I don't know if that's really worth it. Any ideas?

Second-Level Squad Leader

Identical to the first-level soldiers, with another level of fighter and either Reckless Offensive or Power Attack. At second level, two-handed Power Attack actually seems useful (max. 25 damage in the first round).

And Reckless Offensive at second would require Power Attack at first, which might be an okay combo on a second-level NPC...but still very much open to other ideas.

Third-Level Captain

Here I only have a couple general notions: either a level of warblade on top of the squad leader, to represent a modicum of advanced swordsmanship, or another level of fighter, in which case the third-level feat is completely open.

Or, something else entirely. Any suggestions?

[Randomguy]

Have you considered using the sneak attack variant fighter for this? I don't think there are any feats that can add more than 1d6 damage (well, knowledge devotion, but not at this level on a fighter), and with 8 of them you've got a lot of flanking opportunities.

Alternatively, what about Law Devotion? +3 to hit beats +1 to hit, and while weapon focus is all the time they'll probably only get 1 fight a day anyway, and they'd be lucky to survive it.

Death devotion would also be pretty scary if they're fighting low level characters. Then again, a regular hit also has a decent chance of killing you at low levels, so maybe not.

Power attack + another flaw for cleave might be worth it, if the soldiers are going to be fighting large groups of enemies.

[Palanan]

I'm leaning towards the Corsair variant from Dragon 310, since these will be fighting primarily aboard ship.

The more I think about it, the more Power Attack seems pointless on its own. Does Victor's Luck have any real advantage over Weapon Focus?

[nedz]

Point Blank Shot for Rapid Shot can get you two attacks.
Plunging Shot can also be useful, but it is situational.

Power Attack for Cleave is less reliable and requires going face to face. This is better on higher strength builds with two handed weapons.

Combat Reflexes with a Reach weapon can be fun, especially if it can trip.

[Runestar]

Combat expertise, improved trip, combat reflexes, and have your fighters wield guisarmes? Though combat may inevitably get bogged down with all the AoOs they get to make.

Or if you have PHB2, consider the agile shield fighter feat tree (human fighters can take all 3 feats at 1st lv) to give them some additional AC and the ability to make 2 attacks at 1st lv.

Other full-bab classes you can consider include swashbuckler (swaskbuckler3 or warblade3 makes a decent captain), or even something more exotic like duskblade3.

[Ardantis]

For simplicity's sake, I agree with your choice of fighter for your mook NPCs.

However, I also agree that your captain should be single-class in a more powerful/interesting class, to make them stand out from the mooks both in flavor and mechanics.

Rapid Assault makes your mooks into shock troopers- they hit hard and fast, and then are less effective. If your frontline unit were built with Rapid Assaut, they could charge 1st round and then the rest of your soldiers would be able to sustain a longer fight. Sounds fine for expendable 1st level mooks.

Your second level fighters need to be able to sustain their damage threat- Power Attack plus Reckless Offensive can pump out sizeable damage from expendable characters for several rounds.

I love Combat Expertise/Trip/Reach Weapons, but in a unit of Fighters I think it would slow down the flow of your game, unless you are using miniatures/multipe dice/tabletop wargaming conventions.

As for the captains, Swashbucklers and Duskblades have great flavor and get mobility and magic, respectively. If you want to be REALLY mean, make your captain a bard. 3rd level with a Badge of Valor and Song of the Heart means +3 to inspire courage, which would make your whole force much scarier and necessitate the targeting of the captain.

[Rejakor]

Missile Volley from MiniHB lets all your fighters use another better fighter's to-hit for their arrow attacks.

Crew of a ship should specialize in nets and hand to hand, so Sneak Attack Fighters with TWF wouldn't be unheard of.

Ideally you'd have melee crew and ranged crew using Missile Volley.

[ericgrau]

First in general you reserve the PC point buy only for elite foes. The kind that tend to have a name. Probably the captain or nobody. It is reasonable OTOH to make them fighters instead of warriors if they're well trained.


Dauntless may be a mediocre PC feat but on a level 1 soldier it's extremely powerful. Between dauntless, an extra flaw feat for weapon focus and slightly more wealth for armor, the level 1 soldier is as powerful as a level 2 soldier. In fact the strongest thing you could do at level 1 would be dauntless + toughness x 2 + whatever fighter bonus feat. And semi-cheesy since these are designed so specifically for level 1.
Power attack depends on enemy AC. A level 2 soldier fighting stronger well armored foes won't gain much damage from it. Fighting lightly armored foes (thanks to class or low level) it's much better.
Unless you're using high op like shocktrooper weapon focus is a pretty solid feat, usually giving more damage than power attack (but not early on).
Reckless offensive is far better on PCs than soldiers. Unless the soldier's attack drops the monster, he's asking for twice as much hurt in return and the feat is a net negative. OTOH with a well coordinated squad focusing attacks on a monster (not a PC), to make sure the monster drops in 1 round, it could work extremely well. Especially with rapid assault.
Improved initiative is pretty weak. You don't always go first and even when you do you don't win the fight in 1 round. It's more of a TO feat than PO.
Victor's luck averages to about 10% more damage on a greatsword, less against low armor foes. It's ok. Grabbing a crit weapon for it would lower your damage though.


Your group optimization level is also a factor. If the PCs and captain are all shock trooper warblades or similar optimization with more than 28 point buy, then 28 point buy fighters with flaws and cheesy feat tricks like dauntless or combos aren't so unreasonable for the level 1 soldiers.

You might try a dauntless + rapid assault + reckless offensive + power attack + weapon focus + focusing on 1 target combo for the level 2 soldiers. The level 1 soldiers might join in on the same without reckless offensive. If fighting PCs rather than monsters, or if not focused on 1 target then power attack + reckless offensive will be horribly weak & suicidal.

For ship to ship combat some archers are probably a good idea. For a ranged backup weapon on the melee try a sling.

[Zdrak]

Good feat choices for the mooks, simple and doesn't require much bookkeeping, yet effective.
For the 2nd-level squad leader, I'd take Martial Study as the second level feat. Maybe something like Vanguard Strike could be useful. And to represent the fact he is, you know, a leader.
And I'd make the captain a White Raven martial adept.

[nedz]

+1 on the Bard idea, though he shouldn't be the captain.
He should take the feat Obtain Familiar and get himself a parrot.


TWF + Quickdraw could be fun, if you want them throwing belaying pins around.

[Palanan]

Thanks for some great suggestions so far. I hadn't mentioned it before, but I was indeed thinking of shipboard archers to back up the melee soldiers. Plunging Shot would be perfect for archers stationed in the maintop, and I'll have to check out Missile Volley as well.

For the third-level captain, I like the idea of swashbuckler, although it's weaker by a couple of feats than plain fighter. Warblade is a little much for this guy...so is there something that falls in between swashbuckler and warblade? I'm looking more for "battle-hardened veteran" than "flashy, elegant swordmaster."

I love duskblades, but a spellcaster wouldn't work well here. Can you fit a decent mix of swashbuckler and rogue into a three-level build?

[nedz]

Level 3 is a bit low for that, Daring outlaw doesn't become available until 6th, and its a bit rubbish.

You could go with Feat Rogue 3, which would give you BAB 2 and two fighter feats instead of sneak.
Or Feat Rogue 2/Swash 1, which would give you BAB 2, Weapon Finesse and two fighter feats instead of sneak. Better saves also, but fewer skill points.

There is also the Thug Fighter, which swaps the 2nd level Feat for 4+ skill points, and some additional class skills.

[Zdrak]

There's a Hit-and-Run Fighter variant from Drow of the Underdark, which loses Medium and Heavy armor, gains +Dex to damage vs. flat-footed enemies. (since he's not going to wear heavy armor on a ship anyway, might as well)

[ericgrau]

Oh that's right they're all light armor. Then fighter weapon finesse builds become viable and even melee elves. Especially at low levels when there aren't magically swim safe ways to wear heavy armor. Say what you will about AC but that adds a metric ton of it. On land it doesn't work 'cuz fullplate. Some strength for damage is still helpful as is con of course. Also helps reflex saves and long range ship combat screams "fireball me".

[Flickerdart]

Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Net or Razor Net) is a good choice to take PCs unawares.

[navar100]

1st level feat Martial Study - Crusader's Strike
Fighter bonus feat Martial Stance - Martial Spirit
Human bonus feat Martial Stance - Iron Guard's Glare

:smallbiggrin:

[Zdrak]

1st level feat Martial Study - Crusader's Strike
Fighter bonus feat Martial Stance - Martial Spirit
Human bonus feat Martial Stance - Iron Guard's Glare
I'd recommend against this. Feats that provide situational bonuses that require keeping track of in the thick of combat, are okay for the Boss, but not for mooks, which there are many of. Mooks require simple feats that change their static abilities (to-hit, damage, AC, hp, etc) or attack modes (TWF, Rapid Shot) and are of the always-on variety.

[Rejakor]

Check out the various teamwork benefits and feats.

You could very easily give the phalanx shield feats to the melee squads, for example, which would boost their AC to hard to hit levels.


Also keep in mind that a merchant ship would be much more likely to be packing Warriors or armed sailors (commoners/experts).

Fighters are highly trained elite soldiers or experienced mercs.

[Palanan]

So, thanks for all the suggestions here. I think I've got my first-level fighters worked out:

Front Line:


1st - Weapon Focus (greatsword)
human bonus - Dauntless
fighter bonus - Rapid Assault
flaw - Victor's Luck

They'll rush in for their first attacks, then go full defense and pull back once the second group arrives.

Shieldfighter:


1st - Weapon Focus (longsword)
human bonus - Dauntless
fighter bonus - Block Arrow
flaw - Shield Wall

The main melee force, fighting in units of two.

Archer:


1st - Point Blank Shot
human bonus - Rapid Shot
fighter bonus - Precise Shot
flaw - Plunging Shot

The archers will be stationed in the maintops, which will allow them to take full advantage of Plunging Shot. That's potentially an extra +2d6 each round, which looks good in this context.

And the second-level fighters look pretty solid:


1st - Weapon Focus (greatsword)
human bonus - Dauntless
fighter bonus - Rapid Assault
flaw - Power Attack
2nd - Reckless Offensive

(This is straight from ericgrau's suggestion.)

But I still need something decent for the third-level captain. Swashbuckler 3 isn't enough, warblade 3 is way too much. What's a good middle ground?

[Malroth]

Smite to song Paladin of Freedom with Dragonfire inspiration.

[Amphetryon]

But I still need something decent for the third-level captain. Swashbuckler 3 isn't enough, warblade 3 is way too much. What's a good middle ground?

Fighter 1: Weapon Focus (Guisarme), Combat Expertise, Improved Trip
Fighter 2: Combat Reflexes
Crusader 1: Extra Granted Maneuver. Maneuvers (Crusader's Strike, Foehammer, Douse the Flames, Tactical Strike, Mountain Hammer, Stone Bones); Stance (Martial Spirit)

You'll be MAD, which isn't horrible for your purposes, while filling a 'Tactical Commander' role and providing some healing for your troops to get back into the fray.

[Saskia]

I could use some advice on building a squad of soldiers who'll be serving aboard a merchant ship in my seafaring campaign.

Well, there's a reason that no ship's marines in history have regularly been outfitted with large weapons like two-handed swords. On-deck combat with more primitive weapons like swords has always been a chaotic tight-quarters affair with barely enough room to swing a proper rapier or smallsword, that's why the cutlass became such an iconically seafaring weapon. Short(ish), weighty, curved, and robust, it allowed a strong man with a good arm to fight effectively without needing room for a large weapon or precision strikes. A greatsword would be at risk of being caught in the rigging, on a mast, or hitting your own shipmates instead of your target. You'd be practically grappling, you wouldn't have all that lovely spacious five-foot square to maneouver most of the time. Stormwrack (I think) has the stats for it, but if I recall it's mechanically identical to the shortsword except it's 3lb instead of 2. Otherwise you could just do a short sword or maybe even scimitar. I know the great sword is awesome, but on a ship with all that crap on the deck and all the people fighting and the potential for rough seas fighting, I think a smaller weapon just makes more sense.


1st - Weapon Focus (greatsword)
human bonus - Dauntless
fighter bonus - Improved Initiative

I would keep Improved Intiative but drop the others to take Dodge and Mobility since you've got a lot of people to move around and a lot of flanking opportunities but also probably a lot of AoO if you wanted to capitalize on your ability to flank. If you wanted to go full steamroller mode you could drop improved initiative and go dodge/mobility/spring attack so that everybody could get an attack every round on the same guy, but that's just the power gamer in me talking; it would probably drop PCs pretty quickly and that's not fun for anybody. If you expect the fighting to take place on the ship the PCs are on, you can add Alchemical Fire to their equipment and have them use it on their weapons before boarding so you still effectively get a 2d6+3 melee weapon. You lose some damage potential from not two-handing or having the first round extra 1d6, but now the PCs have the added risk of enemies lighting up rigging, sails, oil, powder, and so on, adding danger to the encounter without as much risk of killing the PCs, which is always a good way to go for lower level encounters. Burning sails and such also gives you something to do with enemies that aren't in direct combat so they're not just sitting round twiddling their thumbs.

1x Flask of alchemical fire, cutlass
1st - Improved Initiative
human bonus - Dodge
fighter bonus - Mobility

For the squad leaders I would say also give them a light crossbow, and consider dropping Improved Initiative or Mobility for Point Blank Shot and use your second level Fighter feat for Precise Shot. This will allow you to get a few shots off at those pesky casters so it doesn't get too easy, and also fire at gunners, crew, or into the brawl without penalty.

1x Flask of alchemical fire, cutlass, light crossbow, 20 bolts
1st - Improved Initiative
human bonus - Dodge
fighter bonus - Point Blank Shot
fighter no.2 - Precise Shot

For the 3rd level captain I would give him a masterwork cutlass, a level in warblade, and fudge the rules so that Cutlass counts as a White Raven weapon because white raven is boss for combat leaders. Give him a second sword, a second alchemical fire, and two-weapon fighting and he's a force to be reckoned with on top of having white raven abilities for his mates. :smallbiggrin:

2x Flask of alchemical fire, mwk. cutlass (x2)
1st - Improved Initiative
human bonus - Dodge
fighter bonus - Mobility
fighter no.2 - Weapon focus (Cutlass)
3rd - Two-Weapon Fighting

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Saskia
*wall o' commentary*

Thanks for the detailed consideration; I'll just respond to one suggestion for now, which is the heavy use of alchemical fire. These soldiers will be more likely defending their ship than boarding another, so they wouldn't want to risk setting their own vessel aflame.

Also, even when boarding, an opponent's ship is a tremendously valuable prize, so unless there's a desperate war underway it's far more profitable to capture the vessel intact. This depends on a great many factors, of course, but that's the situation in my campaign.


Originally Posted by Amphetryon
*fighter/crusader build*

I'll definitely keep that in mind, but for now I'd like to avoid ToB for these lower-level guys. (Also, for Mountain Hammer and Stone Bones, I believe Stone Dragon maneuvers can only be used while in contact with the ground, which rules out their shipboard use.)



--So, is there anything that can be done at third level with a swashbuckler / feat-rogue combo? Or maybe one of the elven Weapon Finesse builds that ericgrau mentioned earlier? The mercenary captain can either be a bruiser or a gentleman fighter, so building on Weapon Finesse is definitely an option.
.
.

[Saskia]

an opponent's ship is a tremendously valuable prize

Absolutely, but taking out a sail or two hobbles an opponent's ability to pull away during the fight or to give chase if you end up retreating; it doesn't actually destroy the ship unless things get really nasty before you take out the opposing marines, and if it got that bad you're probably lucky to get any of your own boys back on your ship to escape :smallfrown: Same deal with rigging, it may make it a pain in the butt to get the thing back to port if a third of it's damaged or destroyed but it can be replaced. Also any halfway competently prepared ship will have extra sails and rope to replace, repair, or at least jury rig and make do until port, and the payout even with repairs and inconvenience is still huge. Hitting powder charges for guns would be pretty stupid though, admittedly, but you get my point :smallsmile: Naturally that's scarcely relevant if they're to fight on their own ship, but still :smallbiggrin: Real life pirates and privateers used to do a lot more damage than just cloth and rope after all. Anyway alchemical frost would yield the same combat benefits with limited risk to hardware :smalltongue:

[Palanan]

Alchemical frost is actually a really good idea; I'll check into this. Not something most first-level fighters would be shopping for, but their employers do have resources.

Still taking suggestions on that third-level captain of the guard. Feat rogue? Charge specialist? Weapon Finesse elven fighter?

[hex0]

Dipping Dragon Shaman or Marshal may be in order for at least one member of a squad...or just taking the Draconic Aura feat.

[Palanan]

Marshal! I'd completely forgotten about that one, thanks.

A level of marshal just might be the secret ingredient for my third-level guard captain. I've been at a loss to figure out what to make him.

[hex0]

Fighter 2/Marshal 1 with the Draconic Aura feat makes a good squad leader.

[nedz]

Bard is better than Marshal for this, though the Bard could easily be a specialist. Just take Perform(Sea shanty).

[ericgrau]

Someone once had a question about the rate that fire spreads. D&D doesn't have rules for this so I looked into real life fires. Fire fighters say 2 minutes to engulf a building; this is conservative and likely includes things like cloth drapes. Wood takes a lot longer. Since it grows exponentially, the amount it spreads over a few rounds is almost nothing. Only fire in the sails would spread noticeably. For other fires you could finish a fight and then as long as you respond immediately and have buckets you can extinguish the fire.

[Palanan]

No sailor would ever be so nonchalant about the dangers of fire. "Only" fire in the sails? Once the sails are ablaze there's no way a few buckets will make a difference.

Quoting from The Galleon, by Peter Kirsch, on the dangers of shipboard fire in the early 1600s:


"A continuing theme in these reports is the fear held by the sailors of old of their wooden vessels catching fire. Uncontrollable fire could easily mean the loss of both ship and crew.... Fire on board was an even greater danger than an enemy's energetic attacks."

Quoting from John Smith's Sea Grammar:


"You shall make in every ship two captains of the watch, who shall make choice of two soldiers every night to search between the decks that no fire or candlelight be carried about the ship after the watch be set, nor that any candle be burning in any cabin without a lantern.... For there is no danger so inevitable as the ship firing....

You shall give especial charge, for avoiding the danger of fire; and that no candles be carried in your ship without the lanthorn: which if any person shall disobey, you shall severely punish."

Given the punishments of the day, this is something they took seriously. They didn't randomly start fires and assume they'd be easy to put out again.

[Rejakor]

Ships are made from wood, rope, cloth, and tar.

They existed in areas known for their strong winds.

Air + Lots of Flammable Material = Fire you can't put out with bucket chains


Later they even added gunpowder to that mix, which was good times as you might imagine.

[Gwendol]

Fire=sailor's bane

Marshal seems like a solid choice, if not having a bard on board.