(PF) Gunslinger, Deadshot, Rapid Shot, Haste

[Darth_Versity]

So reading the description of the Deadshot deed I would say that Rapid Shot and Haste do not provide extra attack rolls as it is based off of your BAB and not the number of attacks you can make on a full attack

How ever, would it be overpowered to let them work together? Thus a 7th lvl Gunslinger could potentially do 4D8+Dex+other modifiers with basically no chance of misfire with a pistol.

I dont personally think its to strong but I'd like the playgrounds opinion.

[grarrrg]

So reading the description of the Deadshot deed I would say that Rapid Shot and Haste do not provide extra attack rolls as it is based off of your BAB and not the number of attacks you can make on a full attack

How ever, would it be overpowered to let them work together? Thus a 7th lvl Gunslinger could potentially do 4D8+Dex+other modifiers with basically no chance of misfire with a pistol.

I dont personally think its to strong but I'd like the playgrounds opinion.

Your assessment seems correct. Deadshot only cares about your Bab for extra attacks, no other effects apply.

As for 'overpowered'. Not really, I don't see much wrong with apply extra attacks (Rapid Shot/Haste etc...), so long as you apply the normal penalties to-hit and whatnot.
Addendum: I would NOT allow this to work with a Double Hackbut.

[Deathkeeper]

Your assessment seems correct. Deadshot only cares about your Bab for extra attacks, no other effects apply.

As for 'overpowered'. Not really, I don't see much wrong with apply extra attacks (Rapid Shot/Haste etc...), so long as you apply the normal penalties to-hit and whatnot.
Addendum: I would NOT allow this to work with a Double Hackbut.

I agree with this.

[Slipperychicken]

How ever, would it be overpowered to let them work together? Thus a 7th lvl Gunslinger could potentially do 4D8+Dex+other modifiers with basically no chance of misfire with a pistol.


What else is he adding to that pistol? Deadly Aim?


Looks like it should line up with a barely-optimized high-str Barbarian's damage (2d6 + 1.5xBigStr + 3 PA), which isn't too bad. As his only shot for the round?
When he could be making 4+ regular attacks (each for like 1d6+Dex+Other), I wouldn't be worried. It seems like an acceptable tradeoff of damage for accuracy, especially if you have to blow a Grit Point on it.

[grarrrg]

It seems like an acceptable tradeoff of damage for accuracy, especially if you have to blow a Grit Point on it.

It has 3 functions the way I see it:
You can use it to help get through DR, so you may actually be 'gaining' damage.

The 'only Misfire if every shot Misfires' part is quite handy.

If ANY of the shots is a Critical threat, the whole thing gets treated as a Critical threat, using Full Bab-5 as the Confirm (with penalty reductions for each additional Critical Threat). Since Firearms are all 20/x4, this can be QUITE the damage bonus.


There are also 3 main downsides:
You can only shoot at 1 target. This is fine if its the BBEG, not so much vs. an army of henchmen.

It costs a Grit to use.

You only apply bonus damage ONCE. So your +4 DEX mod only gets you +4 damage instead of +8 or +12 or...

[Slipperychicken]

It has 3 functions the way I see it:
You can use it to help get through DR, so you may actually be 'gaining' damage.


If you're encountering so much DR that one attack with a damage die increased 2-3 times will net you more damage than a Full Attack...

A) You're not going to deal much damage anyhow.

B) You probably should have invested in Clustered Shots (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/clustered-shots-combat)... Gunslingers need to take the archery feat-chain, right?


I only see Dead shot paying off against High-AC targets, and any time you really don't want to miss (hostage situations, Sundering, Grapples, firing flares into the exhaust port into a weak spot in a cart...).

Does anyone know how Dead Shot interacts with Miss Chances? Would each "attack roll" get it's own miss chance, or is it just one roll for the whole thing? I know any mid-high level Gunslinger worth his salt already has a Seeking weapon, but still...

[grarrrg]

B) You probably should have invested in Clustered Shots (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/clustered-shots-combat)... Gunslingers need to take the archery feat-chain, right?

Probably yes, but (most) Gunslinger archetypes get Deadshot for free.
And while Clustered Shots is worth taking, they still only have so many feats to go around, especially at/by level 7.

As for Miss-Chance? I'd think it would only apply once, as you are only "making" one attack.
But that is mostly opinion, I have no solid rulings on that.

[Darth_Versity]

Your assessment seems correct. Deadshot only cares about your Bab for extra attacks, no other effects apply.

As for 'overpowered'. Not really, I don't see much wrong with apply extra attacks (Rapid Shot/Haste etc...), so long as you apply the normal penalties to-hit and whatnot.
Addendum: I would NOT allow this to work with a Double Hackbut.

Double Hackbut? I'm new to pathfinder and only recently got ultimate combat.

[Crustypeanut]

Double Hackbut is a powerful rifle that's so long you need a stand to use it with, which takes a full round to set up. It also does 2d12 dmg.

I had a Gunslinger in my last campaign (we got to level 6 or 7), and even without Deadshot, he was a -beast-. He dual wielded double-barreled pistols (he had weapon cords so he could drop 'em and reload) and well, I had trouble finding **** to throw at him that he actually needed allies to kill. The only things he ever had trouble with were things with DR and stayed mostly out of his first range increment. He could kill 2 ogre skeletons in 1 round..

Guns, they be crazy!

[Darth_Versity]

Double Hackbut is a powerful rifle that's so long you need a stand to use it with, which takes a full round to set up. It also does 2d12 dmg.

I had a Gunslinger in my last campaign (we got to level 6 or 7), and even without Deadshot, he was a -beast-. He dual wielded double-barreled pistols (he had weapon cords so he could drop 'em and reload) and well, I had trouble finding **** to throw at him that he actually needed allies to kill. The only things he ever had trouble with were things with DR and stayed mostly out of his first range increment. He could kill 2 ogre skeletons in 1 round..

Guns, they be crazy!

Ha, that'd be even more crazy with my character. He's an Anthropomorphic Viper from savage species thats been modified to lose RHD. Has +10 dex and Large size. So a Double Hackbut for him would do... hmm, i'm not even sure, 5D6?

[Crustypeanut]

Pretty certain a large Double Hackbutt would do either 3d12 or 6d6, as dice are increased by 50% when size goes up. I could be wrong on that, though.

6d6? Basically a cannon. Actually? Scratch that. It IS a cannon. You're basically wheeling around a cannon. That you can reload and aim like a musket.

o.O

[Darth_Versity]

Pretty certain a large Double Hackbutt would do either 3d12 or 6d6, as dice are increased by 50% when size goes up. I could be wrong on that, though.

6d6? Basically a cannon. Actually? Scratch that. It IS a cannon. You're basically wheeling around a cannon. That you can reload and aim like a musket.

o.O

Well the DM wants to base the game on One Piece, so I guess that fits in with the epicness of the characters!

[Slipperychicken]

Pretty certain a large Double Hackbutt would do either 3d12 or 6d6, as dice are increased by 50% when size goes up. I could be wrong on that, though.

6d6? Basically a cannon. Actually? Scratch that. It IS a cannon. You're basically wheeling around a cannon. That you can reload and aim like a musket.

o.O

If my DM ever runs that Gunslinger campaign, I'm totally going to wield a cannon, reload time be damned. The visual is just too epic to refuse.

[Crustypeanut]

If my DM ever runs that Gunslinger campaign, I'm totally going to wield a cannon, reload time be damned. The visual is just too epic to refuse.

One of the players in my last campaign, a Rogue, wanted to sneak attack people with a cannon. He never got around to getting a cannon, but he did sneak attack someone with a rowboat.