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ReaderAt2046
2012-10-14, 03:33 PM
Alright, so I've been working on a couple of fantasy worlds over the past couple of months and I would love some feedback on them (I'm only detailing one in this post).

Niether of these worlds has a name yet, I'll just call the world I'm doing today "Primus" until I come up with a better one.

The area of Primus we're interested in has a geography resembling that of North Africa, except stretched a lot North-South. The central country (not necessarily the most important, but geographically central) is called Harrath. It's a huge country (about maybe the size of Europe), mostly consisting of savannahs and hills, with the occasional small forest. Harrath is currently in the Late Middle Ages tech level. It used to be a matriarchy, but two generations ago, the priestesses of the Nine Goddesses (Harrath's state religion) decreed that women could no longer hold the throne, though oddly enough, the throne still descends through the female line. Harrathian names are fairly exotic, with a vaguely lyrical feel (Altimar, Jussa, Pell, Valsavin). Harrathian culture is intended to have a vaugely Arabic feel, especially in their military.

Immediately to the west of Harrath lies the realm of Ennedi. Geographically, Enndi and Harrath are very similar, though Ennedi is much smaller (only about a third to a quarter as big). It is in turn intended to be bound by the ocean on the west, as the coastline turns down. Ennedi is slightly ahead of Harrath technologically, just entering the gunpowder age. (A book I am writing marks the first point gunpowder was used in battle.) Ennedi culture is intended to be extremely similar to European culture, with modern names like Matthew and Lucy.

The Ennedi follow a religion known simply as the Path, essentially identical to Christianity (I have yet to decide whether it is post- or pre-messianic). They refer to God as "Elsh'Addi" and followers of the Path are known as "brights". All followers of the Path gain the ability to channel the Light of Elsh'Addi, the energy that is the foundation of all magic in this world. Most brights learn only the most rudimentary of Lightskills, such as the kelistar (a ball of Light with approximately the same illuminatory value as a lantern). However, there are some, known as Lightmakers, who put forth the time and effort to master the art of bending and shaping the Light, and use it to do all sorts of wondrous things, ranging from etherworld corridors (a complex network of magical gates) to shields to bolts of energy to illusions.
Some further notes on this magic:
1. It is not restricted by race or culture, but only by religion. (The Queen of Harrath becomes a fairly good Lightmaker after a secret conversion. So far, there are no non-human sentients on Primus, so that’s a moot point.)
2. It is restricted by religion. So far, the only way to use magic without being a follower of Elsh’Addi is to murder someone, rip their soul from their body, and then use the soul to fuel the spells. Obviously, this is only for the really evil and not even for most of them.
3. It isn’t Vancian. Once you learn a Lightskill, you can use it as often as you want, provided you have enough juice.
Now on to the minor nations. There are three other civilizations that I have established to exist in this area. To the south of the Ennedi/Harrath expanse is a vast desert inhabited by several dozen wandering tribes, collectively referred to as the Atrizan. They are a significant nuisance to the major civilizations (Ennedi and Harrath) but no more than that, primarily because they fight among each other almost as much as they raid the civilized lands. If they actually united, they would be a major power. I have not yet fixed what’s on the other side of the desert, and will take suggestions if there are any.
To the east of Harrath lies a vast mesh of swamps and lakes, inhabited by a culture known as the Ferrans. They are vastly inferior to the Harrathians, let alone the Ennedi, in technology, but they know their own swamps like the back of their hand and have a mastery of poisons beyond any other. The upshot is that they can’t push beyond the swamps, but they can’t be driven out of them either. Like the Atrizan, they raid the Harrathians on and off, and are a general nuisance.
Finally, the sea to the North is dotted with islands, which I have peopled with a culture vaguely reminicient of Japan, but with much more emphasis on trading. I am referring to these as the Yamato until I can think of a better name.
Back to politics, this time with more emphasis on history. Ennedi and Harrath have been at war off and on (mostly on) for centuries now. The war was originally about religion, but has since become more an innately cultural thing, especially on the Harrathian side. The two sides are pretty well-matched, as the Ennedi have superior technology and the Lightmakers, while Harrath has vastly greater numbers and resources. In more recent news, the book I’m writing chronicles the final end of this war with the conversion of Queen Altimar and the civil war that will lead her to claim the throne of Harrath.
Immediately before this would be an interesting time to do a campaign. The most recent outbreak of war ended about 20 years ago (time for this blurb is defined relative to the beginning of the book) when the young King Pell disappeared after a battle near the southern end of the border. In the chaos that followed, Jussa of Telomere, the king’s chief general, seized control under the title of “Queen’s Protector” and managed to negotiate the Treaty of Fallingsway, ending the war comparatively well. Unfortunately, he had to spend much of the next decade putting down a series of rebellions within Harrath itself. At the present, Harrath and Ennedi are relatively at peace, but there are stirrings of trouble near the border, rumors that the Ennedi or the Harrathians have broken the treaty. Jussa still holds the throne, but his control is tenuous.

Calliope121
2012-10-14, 06:57 PM
That is really good!!! I can see a lot of really good campaigns coming out of this... It is a lot of text to look at from the beginning, but that is a really solid concept and description. I tend to be someone who puts way too much description into things (and has a stuffed 300 page notebook on her campaign world to prove it) so I think it might be interesting to go into a little more detail on the history of your world. Every civilization has to start from something, and historic relics make a great place to run adventures. In general, I like to come up with at least three myths or folk stories for each country or region, and also a few pieces of important history and adventure sites. All in all though, I really like your world and think that it would be a wonderful place to run a campaign (or book, as the case may be) in.

ReaderAt2046
2012-10-14, 07:50 PM
Thank you for the feedback! As for the issue of folktales and myths, they're actually coming well. I already explained the basics of the Path, and it's the most important, obviously.

As for the Nine Goddesses, there's some debate among the Ennedi scholars as to whether 1) They don't exist at all. 2) They are actually demons. 3) They were originally angels but the myths about them ran away from the truth (not thought very likely). or 4) Some combination of the above. All I've fixed for certain about their mythos is that they're supposed to have distinct natures and attributes, and that one is connected to healing, another to fertility, and a third to Death.

I think I'm going to have the Atrizan be a sort of animistic society, seeking to appease the spirits of the desert in order that the oases might remain and the scorching never be too severe. A handful of the Western Atrizan worship Elsh'Addi but keep the rest of their culture.

I have no real lead yet on Ferran or Yamato folklore.

P.S. The biggest problem I'm having with this setting is dealing with the whole faith/magic issue. My current thought is to give characters a "Faith" statistic ranging from the positive to the negative of their Wisdom score. Positive faith represents faith in Elsh'Addi, negative faith faith in something else. Changing your faith score is possible, but difficult. Furthermore, your magical ability needs to be directly proportionate to your Faith score (if you have 0 or negative faith, you have a magic of 0, If you have positive faith, you have at least rudimentary magic (kelistars and such) but you can raise it much higher, up to some limit determined by your faith.) I would really appreciate any suggestions on how to work this, especially since flavor requires that this magic be non-vancian.

celtois
2012-10-15, 06:07 PM
If you insist on using 3.5. (In my opinion not the best choice for non-vancian magic)

You could do a set up where your faith score in the number of feats you can have, relating to magic.

So at a faith score of three I would be limited to three light-speak feats.
Depending on how you want lightspeak to work (read how many words you want people to know) you can have feats grant more or less words.

A second option is to just say you can know a number of words equal to your faith score.

ReaderAt2046
2012-10-16, 06:29 AM
If you insist on using 3.5. (In my opinion not the best choice for non-vancian magic)

You could do a set up where your faith score in the number of feats you can have, relating to magic.

So at a faith score of three I would be limited to three light-speak feats.
Depending on how you want lightspeak to work (read how many words you want people to know) you can have feats grant more or less words.

A second option is to just say you can know a number of words equal to your faith score.

While I thank you for the feedback, I would like to know where you got the idea that this system was supposed to work by magic words. It doesn't, it works by will and thought.

TheWombatOfDoom
2012-10-16, 08:14 AM
Faith score seems to be static to me. There's only so much you can believe in something. You can pretty much do one of three things: a) not believe, b) kind of believe, c) Believe. There are variencies in how much you kind of believe, but belief and no would be your hard caps, and that doesn't lend well to leveling. Faith really only dictates whether you can cast or not. With kind of belief, you could throw on light or heavy penelties depending on which part of the spectrum they are.

Therefore, the power, capacity, and limits to your spells must come from somewhere else. Therefore, perhaps the juice you mention (mana?) can be dictated by your level. Say you have some sort of equation to make it in such a way, but you could really make it...well as you mentioned in the homebrew thread, kind of like HP. Have a set dice roll that they get for each level, and value each spell. Heck, the spell value could be based on the level of the spell if you want to make it really simple. One could spend all their mana on one more powerful spell, or range it out on lower leveled ones. You already have it so that they don't know all the spells at one time, they'd have to learn them, or perhaps have "divine enlightenment" as they level (could work it in at levels like spells per day tiers but perhaps, say...level of spells known, or however you have your lightskills planned).

Does this help?

Edit: I also did a name storm for your world, based on the phrase: From Elshidai, or rather, from El. I came up with the following:

Dayel / Dael
Vandel
Etibariel / Itbarel
Alkaenel
Tiripar / Eltipar
Dariel
Eleminn
Elripada
Kutora

Some of these may have posibilities, other I don't like at all, but I figured I'd shove them all your way and at least have put in something, hahaha.

ReaderAt2046
2012-10-16, 11:09 AM
First, I was wondering where in the world you got those names and what they're supposed to be names of. I thought I already established that Ennedi names were supposed to be ordinary Western names like John, Matthew, and Lily...though those names might work for bright Harrathians, as it's established that Harrath is beginning to turn to the Light.

I like your idea of trying to have more gradiations, and I think this may play nicely into a personal philosophy about how some people have a more "shallow" faith not because their faith isn't genuine but just because they don't think much about spiritual things (In game terms, a character can have low Faith either because they are spiritually troubled or just because they have a low Wisdom score). Possibly we could play this into the alignment system, with Good being represented by having positive faith more than a third of your Wisdom, Neutral being between positive and negative 1/3 Wisdom, and evil being negative faith less than a third of Wisdom. So if your faith score alters enough, you change alignments.

I also think you’re right about using the non-vancian system I came up with. I think I’ll make Faith the pool stat instead of Wisdom, but keep Int as determining the number of Lighskills.

On other notes, I am considering trying to insert a “miracle” system, which would basically allow the players to make a Faith check (positive only) to change a bit of description, cause the villain to be struck by lightning, make the orc guard have forgotten his alarm bell, or other bits of rule rewriting. The DM would set DCs in secret, and would be not only permitted but encouraged to wildly alter them based on the coolness of the miracle and how well it fits into his schemes.

TheWombatOfDoom
2012-10-16, 11:30 AM
First, I was wondering where in the world you got those names and what they're supposed to be names of. I thought I already established that Ennedi names were supposed to be ordinary Western names like John, Matthew, and Lily...though those names might work for bright Harrathians, as it's established that Harrath is beginning to turn to the Light.

You mention at the beginnning that you haven't come up with the name for the world yet (working name primus), so I was trying to help by giving you a few to work with. I basically take words and translate them to other languages and stir the letters around and out pops a couple. Rinse and repeat. Some name-storms work better than others.


I like your idea of trying to have more gradiations, and I think this may play nicely into a personal philosophy about how some people have a more "shallow" faith not because their faith isn't genuine but just because they don't think much about spiritual things (In game terms, a character can have low Faith either because they are spiritually troubled or just because they have a low Wisdom score). Possibly we could play this into the alignment system, with Good being represented by having positive faith more than a third of your Wisdom, Neutral being between positive and negative 1/3 Wisdom, and evil being negative faith less than a third of Wisdom. So if your faith score alters enough, you change alignments.

I also think you’re right about using the non-vancian system I came up with. I think I’ll make Faith the pool stat instead of Wisdom, but keep Int as determining the number of Lighskills.

Becareful with mixing abilities and alignment, but if you figure out a good way to do it, excellent! The setting does dictate some sort of deliniation...

Perhaps instead of renaming Wisdom, Wisdom directly effects Faith. So you get either the ability modifier toward faith, or some sort of corelation. Faith could be your new alignment system! Spiritual to Spiritless, for good to evil, and something else, possibly about organized religion vrs personal for order vrs chaos? Just throwing out ideas without implications. Don't mind me.



On other notes, I am considering trying to insert a “miracle” system, which would basically allow the players to make a Faith check (positive only) to change a bit of description, cause the villain to be struck by lightning, make the orc guard have forgotten his alarm bell, or other bits of rule rewriting. The DM would set DCs in secret, and would be not only permitted but encouraged to wildly alter them based on the coolness of the miracle and how well it fits into his schemes.

Ah ha! Hero points! Plot Points! Things you can use to step back at a cliff face instead of plunging over or reroll a botched roll or more significant events as you mentioned. I like these, as they allow the player to try and earn these points, and they also once used make the player feel like they have more tactile influence in the happenings of the campaign and their character.

ReaderAt2046
2012-10-16, 01:15 PM
You mention at the beginnning that you haven't come up with the name for the world yet (working name primus), so I was trying to help by giving you a few to work with. I basically take words and translate them to other languages and stir the letters around and out pops a couple. Rinse and repeat. Some name-storms work better than others.


Thanks! I understand now. Hmm.... Dariel sounds good....



Becareful with mixing abilities and alignment, but if you figure out a good way to do it, excellent! The setting does dictate some sort of deliniation...


That's actually the biggest way this differs from D&D. In D&D, there are multiple competing pantheons while the whole point of this setting is that it's True Monotheistic.



Ah ha! Hero points! Plot Points! Things you can use to step back at a cliff face instead of plunging over or reroll a botched roll or more significant events as you mentioned. I like these, as they allow the player to try and earn these points, and they also once used make the player feel like they have more tactile influence in the happenings of the campaign and their character.

Exactly the flavor I was looking for! But note that these are supposed to be miracles, little bits of favor handed out by Elsh'Addi. (Never too much too prevent the characters from learning and growing, though).

Relatedly, since faith and religion play such a big part in character powers and creation, forcing players to stick to the alignments they've picked is going to be a lot more important, especially since players may have characters be brights on paper (for the powers) but not play them that way. I'd suggest downgrading combat Xp a bit, really upping Xp rewards for good roleplaying and allowing the DM to dock Xp for bad roleplaying as counters to this.

TheWombatOfDoom
2012-10-16, 01:33 PM
Exactly the flavor I was looking for! But note that these are supposed to be miracles, little bits of favor handed out by Elsh'Addi. (Never too much too prevent the characters from learning and growing, though).

Relatedly, since faith and religion play such a big part in character powers and creation, forcing players to stick to the alignments they've picked is going to be a lot more important, especially since players may have characters be brights on paper (for the powers) but not play them that way. I'd suggest downgrading combat Xp a bit, really upping Xp rewards for good roleplaying and allowing the DM to dock Xp for bad roleplaying as counters to this.

Hm. In my campaigns I often go another way with XP. I see XP as something that is distracting to the campaign. You build a campaign with the knowledge that characters will be leveling up as you go. I feel that it's not always concurrent with things to have the exact amount of encounters needed to have them level up to where they might need to be at certain times in the story. Within reason, fudging XP is something I practice. I give them sufficent amounts of situations (whether battle, social situations, puzzles, so on) to make them feel like they have earned enough for a level, but they don't know the exact XP because I take care of that. I use the XP tables and CR's as guidelines, but not as hard truths, especially since they're not terribly accurate and designed specifically for a party of 4 in a balanced group, which is in my experience fairly uncommon. They just are told when they've gained a level. Sure that takes away the reward and punishment system a lot of DM's like to use, but I've always felt that can be done other ways.

Rewards? Miracles (for you) or Plot points for me. You can't use more than one plot point a session however.

Punishment? Well, you can always take those away, but I have other less drastic implements as well. See it as a 3 strike system.