Thri-Kreen Ninja build ideas?

[Mr.Pockets1000]

New to the forums (as far as posting concerns) and looking for a bit of input on one of my next characters. And so, i turn to those on the forums for advice.

Main thought process is i would like to be optimized, without decimating the fun for the rest of the party. No ideas for what the party composition will be, so leaving skill points available in case i need to be a skill monkey is something id like to consider. Also, having use throughout the game is a big bonus, im not looking for a build thats pretty much worthless until i hit a lvl 16 or so ability that makes it work.

Available sources, most anything 3.5 that i can find a copy of to prove its not homebrew, only things expressly forbidden are Dragon/Dungeon Magazines. Attempt to avoid retraining shenanigans, DM only allows it with large amounts of roleplay. Limit 2 Flaws, no Location feat things (don't remember exactly what they are called)

Starting level is going to be 5, stats i rolled are: 12, 12, 14, 15, 17, 18
Race, as implied by title is Thri-Kreen, non psionic version in MM2.


1 Racial - Weapon Focus, Multidexterity(Flaw #1), Multiwap. (Flaw #2)
2 Racial
3 Ninja - Craven
4 Fighter - Martial Stalker
5 Ninja
6 Ninja - Weapon Specialization (Light Mace)
7 Fighter - Pulverize Foe
8 Ninja
9 Fighter - Weapon Mastery (Bludgeon)
10 Fighter - Improved Multiweapon Fighting
11 Ninja
12 Ninja - Combat Reflexes
13 Ninja
14 Ninja
15 Ninja - Lightning Mace
16 Ninja
17 Ninja
18 Ninja - Greater Multiweapon/ Crushing Strike
19 Who knows
20 Who knows

This is my original rough draft, feel free to pick it apart

Build ideas: lots and lots of attacks, stacked up sudden strike with pulverize and craven for lots of damage in a round. DM allowing drow fighter ACF from Drow of the Underdark for lvl 1 fighter so even more goodies while im invisible. Biggest hangup being Lightning Mace/ Combat Reflexes. As much as i like the idea of every Critical threat giving me a free attack, is it worth the use of such a mediocre weapon.

Let me know what you think, including if i should format my post differently-wasn't sure this is the best way or not.

[mattie_p]

I once built a thri-kreen (only a very small part ninja) for a build competition here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12857570&postcount=43).

Check out Qat, the Female Thri-kreen LN Psychic Warrior 6 / Ninja 1 / Shou Disciple 4 / Elocutor 1 / Diamond Warrior 4

[T.G. Oskar]

New to the forums (as far as posting concerns) and looking for a bit of input on one of my next characters. And so, i turn to those on the forums for advice.

Main thought process is i would like to be optimized, without decimating the fun for the rest of the party. No ideas for what the party composition will be, so leaving skill points available in case i need to be a skill monkey is something id like to consider. Also, having use throughout the game is a big bonus, im not looking for a build thats pretty much worthless until i hit a lvl 16 or so ability that makes it work.

Available sources, most anything 3.5 that i can find a copy of to prove its not homebrew, only things expressly forbidden are Dragon/Dungeon Magazines. Attempt to avoid retraining shenanigans, DM only allows it with large amounts of roleplay. Limit 2 Flaws, no Location feat things (don't remember exactly what they are called)

Starting level is going to be 5, stats i rolled are: 12, 12, 14, 15, 17, 18
Race, as implied by title is Thri-Kreen, non psionic version in MM2.


1 Racial - Weapon Focus, Multidexterity(Flaw #1), Multiwap. (Flaw #2)
2 Racial
3 Ninja - Craven
4 Fighter - Martial Stalker
5 Ninja
6 Ninja - Weapon Specialization (Light Mace)
7 Fighter - Pulverize Foe
8 Ninja
9 Fighter - Weapon Mastery (Bludgeon)
10 Fighter - Improved Multiweapon Fighting
11 Ninja
12 Ninja - Combat Reflexes
13 Ninja
14 Ninja
15 Ninja - Lightning Mace
16 Ninja
17 Ninja
18 Ninja - Greater Multiweapon/ Crushing Strike
19 Who knows
20 Who knows

This is my original rough draft, feel free to pick it apart

Build ideas: lots and lots of attacks, stacked up sudden strike with pulverize and craven for lots of damage in a round. DM allowing drow fighter ACF from Drow of the Underdark for lvl 1 fighter so even more goodies while im invisible. Biggest hangup being Lightning Mace/ Combat Reflexes. As much as i like the idea of every Critical threat giving me a free attack, is it worth the use of such a mediocre weapon.

Let me know what you think, including if i should format my post differently-wasn't sure this is the best way or not.

First thing: it's heckuva cheesy, but Aptitude Kukri + Lightning Maces allows for the use of a 18-20 weapon with this feat. It can be anything else, but Kukris are the traditional way to use it. Aptitude is in Tome of Battle, in case you're curious, and essentially allows you to apply the benefits of a feat that can only be used with a specific weapon (e.g. Weapon Focus or Improved Critical). The reading isn't too specific, meaning that you can apply the benefits of weapon style feats (such as Lightning Maces) outside of the weapons they're supposed to improve. You may want to speak that to your DM, because while it works by RAW, by RAI (Rules As Intended) most certainly not.

Second: you may want to ensure that you can land hits, so you might want to invest in splash weapons, such as acid flasks and alchemists' fire. Splash weapons require touch attacks, which combined with the ability to ignore Dexterity to AC means you're probably getting a sure hit. Use it when facing high AC opponents, and since it works at a distance (specifically the distance Sudden Strike works), you can lob these items and remain outside of range.

Third: consider adding something for when Sudden Strike won't work. You'll notice that you'll quickly find Sudden Strike extra damage worthless when you start facing lots of undead creatures, constructs, oozes and plants. You'll want to take advantage of your multiple hands to get as many hits as possible with the right weapon. Sudden Strike is no Sneak Attack, so you can't take advantage of the many ways SA can bypass said immunities; hence, it's best to think how to deal with them.

Four: extra ways to get invisibility. This is essential, because while you'll get a decent amount of ki, Ghost Strike can only help you so far. An item that grants invisibility or the ability to ignore the target's Dexterity bonus to AC for more than one attack is important, so that your fighting potential extends for some extra time.

Five: you'll probably see some people suggesting Swordsage. Probably alongside Aptitude Kukris or the Aptitude weapon enhancement with a better weapon. It's your choice, but note that most people will gently push towards Swordsage just because they'll claim it's better. YMMV if what you get via Swordsage is better than what you'll get with Ninja, so meditate on it before you start hearing why you should choose Swordsage.

Six: Have Complete Scoundrel? There's a very nice feat that allows you to stack Fighter and Ninja levels for purposes of qualifying for Fighter feats and extra uses of ki. You'll probably want this.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Mutlidexterity isn't a thing anymore. It was dropped in the 3.5 update, meaning you can take multiweapon fighting without it.

[kitcik]

Consider a barb dip to get Pounce and the feat Battle Jump with your +30 racial modifier.

[Mr.Pockets1000]

First thing: it's heckuva cheesy, but Aptitude Kukri + Lightning Maces allows for the use of a 18-20 weapon with this feat. It can be anything else, but Kukris are the traditional way to use it. Aptitude is in Tome of Battle, in case you're curious, and essentially allows you to apply the benefits of a feat that can only be used with a specific weapon (e.g. Weapon Focus or Improved Critical). The reading isn't too specific, meaning that you can apply the benefits of weapon style feats (such as Lightning Maces) outside of the weapons they're supposed to improve. You may want to speak that to your DM, because while it works by RAW, by RAI (Rules As Intended) most certainly not.

Love it, never heard of it, will have to look into.


Third: consider adding something for when Sudden Strike won't work. You'll notice that you'll quickly find Sudden Strike extra damage worthless when you start facing lots of undead creatures, constructs, oozes and plants. You'll want to take advantage of your multiple hands to get as many hits as possible with the right weapon. Sudden Strike is no Sneak Attack, so you can't take advantage of the many ways SA can bypass said immunities; hence, it's best to think how to deal with them.

This ive looked into, so far my solutions are weapon augment crystals from MiC for undead/construct, and then just abusing all my attacks with flay the foe/ pulverize foe/ skewer foe (depending on ending weapon choice) to hopefully get around anything else.


Five: you'll probably see some people suggesting Swordsage. Probably alongside Aptitude Kukris or the Aptitude weapon enhancement with a better weapon. It's your choice, but note that most people will gently push towards Swordsage just because they'll claim it's better. YMMV if what you get via Swordsage is better than what you'll get with Ninja, so meditate on it before you start hearing why you should choose Swordsage.
I was debating taking a single level dip in swordsage for the shadowblade feat and assassin's stance, but i want the capability to be our trapfinder, even if im not really optimized for it, and with no disable or search as class skills, thats a no go.


Six: Have Complete Scoundrel? There's a very nice feat that allows you to stack Fighter and Ninja levels for purposes of qualifying for Fighter feats and extra uses of ki. You'll probably want this.

Already got it, original post is 4th level feat, Martial Stalker.


Mutlidexterity isn't a thing anymore. It was dropped in the 3.5 update, meaning you can take multiweapon fighting without it.

This is news to me, i thought MM2 was 3.5 and Multidex is in it. Biggest concern it raises is that do i now take standard penalties (-4, -2 if OH Light) to the attack rolls again.


Consider a barb dip to get Pounce and the feat Battle Jump with your +30 racial modifier.

Gotta love pounce, will have to look into battle jump and see what it does, but current build is already absurdly feat intensive.

Thanks for all the input and suggestions, keep em coming.