Paladin Optimization

[toapat]

This topic is to pose a simple question: How would you Optimize a Primarily paladin character?

Here is my first one

The Mystic Darkfire Knight:

Assumptions:Flaws, LA Buyoff, 32 Pointbuy
Books: PHB, UA, Complete Champion, Dragon Compendium, Champions of Valor, BoED

Drow:
STR: 16+4 (+6 Vow)
DEX: 10
CON: 14 (+4 Vow)
INT: 14 (+2 Vow)
WIS: 15+1 (+8 Vow)
CHA: 8

Paladin of Freedom 1: Sacred Vow, Spellfire Wielder
Paladin 2:
Paladin 3: Serenity
Mystic Fire Knight 1:
Mystic Fire Knight 2:
Mystic Fire Knight 3: (Selling Mount for the Underdark Knight ACF. this will come online in 6 levels, we also get the first use of spellshatter) Sword of the Arcane Order
Paladin 7:
Paladin 8:
Paladin 9: Battle Blessing
Paladin 10:
Paladin 11:
Paladin 12: (Finally get Earthglide) Practiced Spellcaster
Paladin 13:
Paladin 14:
Paladin 15: Mage Slayer
Paladin 16:
Paladin 17:
Paladin 18: Vow of Poverty, Exaulted Smite
Paladin 19:
Paladin 20:Gift of Grace

This character is simply, the bane of spellcasters. Earthglide, the ability to prepare Wizard spells such as Tremorsense. Spell resistance poses only a small hurdle. And on top of all that, 2 9th level spells will have no effect on this drow

[123456789blaaa]

Exactly what you are looking for (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/29110689)

[Hirax]

By being a cleric and taking 3 levels in prestige paladin, then bailing.

[toapat]

Exactly what you are looking for (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/29110689)

no, its isnt. im asking for builds others have made

[123456789blaaa]

no, its isnt. im asking for builds others have made

That is a build that another person (Andarious primarily. Tempest Stormwind suggested two feats and a few substitutions early on) has made :smallconfused:. It uses all 20 levels of paladin too.

[toapat]

That is a build that another person (Andarious primarily. Tempest Stormwind suggested two feats and a few substitutions early on) has made :smallconfused:. It uses all 20 levels of paladin too.

others as in not the only people running optimization on the WotC boards

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

An extremely headstrong and zealous inquisitor, born to sniff out and eradicate evil spellcasters:

Gold or Desert Dwarf, Cloistered Cleric 1/ Paladin 19, Quick trait, probably two flaws (Aligned Devotion and Bravado (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258440#30)), Knowledge Devotion, Law Devotion, Inquisition domain, Charging Smite ACF, Divine Counterspell ACF for Paladin.
Hidden Talent: Psionic Minor Creation (1st), Power Attack (1st), Practiced Spellcaster: Cleric (1st), Divine Might (3rd), Divine Defiance (6th), Heavy Armor Optimization (6th), Deflective Armor (9th), Greater Heavy Armor Optimization (12th), Battle Blessing (15th), and whatever at the 18th level that is often never even reached. Maybe get Shield Specialization and Shield Ward at 15th and 18th, but I'd be tempted to find a place for Focused Shield (RoS) as well in that case.
Tumble max ranks, preferably at least five cross-class Balance ranks, enough Spellcraft for Practiced Spellcaster, at least one rank in any relevant Knowledge skill for Knowledge Devotion, enough Kn: Arcana for the Divine Counterspell synergy bonus, Collector of Stories and any Tumble or Balance-based skill tricks, and pick up Concentration and more Spellcraft when you can.

With Divine Counterspell and Divine Defiance you can spend one of your Cleric turn attempts to Divine Counterspell as an immediate action, making a Dispel check at Character Level +2. The check can be further increased by anything that increases your effective Turn Undead level. You don't even need to make a Spellcraft check to identify the spell in question. Divine Counterspell has a hard limit of 1+Cha, but it's still unquestionably useful.

I prefer to get the Charging Smite ACF (PH2) for Paladin, considering you can fill all your 1st level Paladin spell slots with Rhino's Rush (SC) and carry 1st level Pearls of Power to recover them between battles. Charging Smite does an additional +2 damage per Paladin level, on top of the +1 per level from regular Smite Evil. So between +3 damage per level and dealing double damage from Rhino's Rush, it can easily destroy evil opponents in a single hit without much additional effort. If you're going for silly optimization levels, throw on a Valorous weapon + Battle Jump, otherwise it's probably not going to raise any red flags.

Divine Might (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#divineMight) is a great choice if you can stack Night Sticks, as the bonus is also doubled from Rhino's Rush. With Armbands of Might (MIC) when you Power Attack for -2 you get +4 one-handed or +6 two-handed, which is also doubled to +8 or +12 for only that -2 to hit. You could invest a few more feats into Leap Attack (and Martial Study to get Jump as a class skill) to get +16 one-handed or +24 two-handed damage instead, since post-errata Leap Attack isn't a multiplier, but I'd skip that unless you're stacking multipliers.

Dwarves hold a special place in my heart, especially for heavily armored characters. Go with one of the versions that doesn't take a Cha penalty (Desert Dwarf in UA, Gold Dwarf in FRCS), take the Quick trait (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterTraits.htm#quick) and pick up Improved Toughness if you don't like the HP hit, and trade Ride for Tumble (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) as a class skill. You can now do backflips and pro dodgeball moves (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69X7tP6p7E0) in full plate, along with all the other benefits of being a Dwarf. Your best bet with heavy armor is to be psionic (Hidden Talent in XPH is just plain better than Wild Talent) and get Deflective Armor (RoS), in which case you may as well also get Greater Heavy Armor Optimization.

[Krazzman]

Ok, this might be a minor nitpick but why Vow of Poverty at 18?

Afaik Vow of Poverty gives only the stuff at the level you get it. Thus only granting it's 18 19 and 20 Bonus. Or did I read that wrong?

[Gwendol]

I'm fond of the paladin/purple dragon knight combo (assuming PDK levels stack). Bard/Paladins can also be fun. Both ideas come from the character being able to inspire courage, which fits very well with the Paladin concept. I also fully support BF's smite-centric suggestions, and looking at dwarves as a chassi.

Of course this can be duplicated by the Smite to Song feat, and some of the usual IC optimization tricks (Badge of Valor, Word of Creation (though the INT +15 is likely to be hard for Paladin's to reach)). Note that for DFI and Song of the Heart, the requirement is Bardic music, which Smite to Song does not provide.

The book of exalted deeds can give the paladin some other options, including Celestial Mount and ranged smite.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Ok, this might be a minor nitpick but why Vow of Poverty at 18?

Afaik Vow of Poverty gives only the stuff at the level you get it. Thus only granting it's 18 19 and 20 Bonus. Or did I read that wrong?

You read it wrong. VoP gives all of its benefits, save the bonus feats, retroactively when you take it. A 20th level ascetic gets the same benefits whether he took the feats at level 1 or level 18.

Missing out on the bonus exalted feats doesn't hurt that bad either. VoP gives more bonus exalted feats than there are exalted feats worth taking for most characters.

[ThiagoMartell]

others as in not the only people running optimization on the WotC boards
...Why?
The build is fairly recent, very good and uses 20 levels of Paladin. You have already gotten one answer of "I would play something else"... and that's pretty much the default here. :smallsigh:

[Piggy Knowles]

Exactly what you are looking for (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/29110689)

I like the A-Game Paladin, but I have one major problem with it - I feel like taking both the Melil and Mystra substitution levels is pretty willfully ignoring the deity rules set forth in Faerun. I know that I can certainly come up with an explanation for a character that worships both, but Faerun is pretty serious about sticking to one patron deity, as are its knightly orders.

Take away that, and you have a fairly standard Harmonious Knight build - quite good, but not really all that original. The only really interesting trick they did beyond that was use Illumian to mitigate the ability score requirements of Words of Creation.

(Note that I'm a big fan of the Weekly Op Series in general, and I still think that the A-Game Paladin is a solid, clean and effective build. Just tossing out the one real complaint I have with it.)

[Person_Man]

Some Smite Optimization (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10289492#post10289492) might help you.

I personally would not trade away the Special Mount for an ACF. I'm of the opinion that it's the Paladin's best class feature is their Special Mount, especially if you're a Small Paladin riding a Medium mount, which can essentially go everywhere. Your Special Mount can dramatically increase your Charge damage (Spirited Charge + Riding Boots from DMGII), your movement speed, give you flight, gives your enemies another target, various special abilities, plus the many benefits of Share Spells.

[eggs]

Ok, this might be a minor nitpick but why Vow of Poverty at 18?
Late-game VoP is usually chosen so a build can stock up on grafts/permanent-bind items before making the vow.

[toapat]

Some Smite Optimization (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10289492#post10289492) might help you.

I personally would not trade away the Special Mount for an ACF. I'm of the opinion that it's the Paladin's best class feature is their Special Mount, especially if you're a Small Paladin riding a Medium mount, which can essentially go everywhere. Your Special Mount can dramatically increase your Charge damage (Spirited Charge + Riding Boots from DMGII), your movement speed, give you flight, gives your enemies another target, various special abilities, plus the many benefits of Share Spells.

the build wasnt a mount build, it was an anti-caster build which took the Paladin ACF that provides an ability which makes everything short of the LoE bypassing Holy Word line of spells useless against you. Earthglide has nothing that RAW detects creatures using it. Munchkinry has one way, but that is a "Because the rules do not specifically say it doesnt" sort of thing

[Keld Denar]

Paladin4/Crusader1/RKV10/Crusader+5 is kinda interesting. Divine Impetus + Battle Blessings gives some delicious synergy.

[eggs]

Just throwing a couple builds I've had good results with (or with spinoffs):

Celadrin Paladin 20 [Elf Paladin 1,3; Mystic Fire Knight 5,6]
Feats: Point Blank Shot (1), Rapid Shot (3), Sword of the Arcane Order (6), Knowledge Devotion (9), Practiced Spellcaster (12), Divine Spell Power (15), Sanctum Spell (18)
[Celadrin's kind of obscure, so for context, it's a Charismatic Elf-blooded Planetouched from Dragon 350.] The gist of this build is to ride a flying mount around the battlefield, blasting arrow volleys as a archer augmented by a mix of Wizard and Paladin buffs. MFK+Elf Paladin allows caster-dampening at a range, Divine Insight[+Frog God's Fane if necessary] provides bonuses high enough for Knowledge Devotion to be a handy damage boost. Outsider Polymorph and Share Spells give especially silly options at high levels like turning into an Arrow Demon with Splitting bows riding a Thoon Elder Brain for an easy thousand or so damage a round. Sanctum spell is so Circlets of Rapid Casting and Least Metamagic Rods work with all available spells.

Silverbrow Human Bard 1/Crusader 1/Paladin 18 [Harmonious Knight 1,6,9]
Feats: Dragonfire Inspiration (1), Protection Devotion (Human) Devoted Performer (3), Song of the White Raven (6), Song of the Heart (9), From Smite to Song (12), Words of Creation (15), Initiate of Milil (18)
This build is about cranking up the party's attack, damage and AC with Protection Devotion and Inspire Courage. Paladin itself has two sets of options of useful contributions that it specifically can bring to the table:

Either a Griffon Special Mount for flight and 5 extra ICed charging attacks per round OR Stand Fast (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) to round the buffing effects out with the occasional save boost. I prefer the Mount, but Stand Fast can be a lifesaver.
Either Paladin spellcasting, including things like Shield Other to keep party members standing, if a workable amount of Wisdom is infeasible, OR Holy Knight bonus feats to round out a mounted combat suite. Casting is ideal, but either is workable.


Human Paladin 4/Ordained Champion 1/Pious Templar 1/OC 4/Shadow Sentinel 3/Triadic Knight 7
Feats: Weapon Focus (1), True Believer (Human), Serenity (3), Law Devotion (6), Endurance (9), Initiate of Torm (12), Power Attack (15), Awesome Smite (18)
This is essentially a Paladin, but more so. Ordained Champion and Serenity cue most of the Paladin's rolls off its Wisdom score, Pious Templar and Triadic Knigh provide Mettle an array of immunities. Law Devotion, Shadow Sentinel, PT spells and Awesome Smite combine for plausible offensive capabilities.

Human Barbarian 1/Holy Warrior Paladin of Freedom 4 [Holy Judge 1]/Hellreaver 10/Witchslayer 5
Feats: Intimidating Rage (1), Extra Rage (Human), Animal Devotion (3), Power Attack (Holy Warrior), Favored Power Attack (6), Imperious Command (9), Instant Rage (12), Endurance (15), Steadfast Determination (18)
This is basically a rager whose schticks are being really hard to hurt, using fear-lockdown and dealing big piles of damage to devils. Admittedly, this plays more like a Barbarian than a Paladin, but Paladin gives many of the defining abilities, like its Saving throw impenetrability, Animal Devotion-fueling Turn engine and Favored Enemy: Devil for Favored Power Attack benefits.

[toapat]

This is a revision of the build i first posted, after figuring out what i was missing

The Mystic Darkfire Knight, Take 2:

Assumptions:Flaws, LA Buyoff, 32 Pointbuy
Books: PHB, UA, Complete Series, Dragon Compendium, Champions of Valor, BoED

Drow:
STR: 8
DEX: 12 (+6 Vow)
CON: 14 (+4 Vow)
INT: 14 (+2 Vow)
WIS: 18+5 (+8 Vow)
CHA: 10

Paladin of Freedom 1: Sacred Vow, Spellfire Wielder, Combat Reflexes
Paladin 2:
Paladin 3: Serenity
Mystic Fire Knight 1:
Mystic Fire Knight 2:
Mystic Fire Knight 3: (Selling Mount for the Underdark Knight ACF. this will come online in 6 levels, we also get the first use of spellshatter) Sword of the Arcane Order
Paladin 7:
Paladin 8:
Paladin 9: Battle Blessing
Paladin 10:
Paladin 11:
Paladin 12: (Finally get Earthglide) Practiced Spellcaster
Paladin 13:
Paladin 14:
Paladin 15: Vow of Poverty
Paladin 16: Intuitive Attack
Paladin 17:
Paladin 18: Mage Slayer, Exalted Smite
Paladin 19:
Paladin 20:Gift of Grace

This character is simply, the bane of spellcasters. Earthglide, the ability to prepare Wizard spells such as Tremorsense. Spell resistance poses only a small hurdle. And on top of all that, 2 9th level spells will have no effect on this drow

[Augmental]

How optimized of a caster are you attempting to counter? You've got a good defense, but how are you doing offense?

[toapat]

How optimized of a caster are you attempting to counter? You've got a good defense, but how are you doing offense?

spellshatter, just have to hit the caster.

also, Truestrike, either Battleblessed or chained with a Celerity. its why im not worried about the fact that everything against you has Total Concealment.

Edit: one of the problems is the low detail on both SotAO and Spellshatter. you are Preparing Wizard spells, in paladin spell slots. does that make them benefit from battle blessing? Spellshatter: Does it auto confirm because of how it is worded?

[Piggy Knowles]

A couple of issues...

1. I assume that the intention is to remain in earth or stone for the most part to avoid line of sight from enemies? How are you breathing? How do you cast spells with verbal components?

2. Is the tremorsense spell the only way you have of detecting enemies? That only gives you a 30' range, won't do a thing against flying enemies (a big deal if your goal is to take on casters), won't let you identify what IS within your range, and only has a 10 minutes/level duration. With a maximum caster level of 12 (unless I'm missing something), you're going to very quickly burn through any spell slots you have to keep that active.

3. Spellshatter requires getting into melee range, and all you end up with is a single targeted greater dispel magic. That's nice, but it's actually going to be less useful against casters than it is against non-casters, simply because casters will have a high enough CL to block its impact for the most part. You might catch a buff or two, but you're probably not going to get all of their spells to come tumbling down. And with only five uses per day, it's a nice thing to have, but I wouldn't rely on it as your only real means of offense.

4. Even with your bonus spells from MFK, you've still got a very low number of spells to work with. Just a general concern - I've played a battle blessing paladin before, and while it was fun, the low number of spells per day was a constant thorn in my side (and I wasn't trying to do things like keep a tremorsense up constantly, use true strike on all my attacks, and use celerity).

5. Vow of Poverty + Sword of the Arcane Order. SotAO requires a spellbook. Does VoP allow for one? From what I recall, it allows for a spell component pouch but not a spellbook. But I don't have BoED in front of me right now, so I could be mis-remembering that.

Also, what do you mean by spellshatter "auto-confirming"? It's pretty explicit what it does - you make a melee attack, and if it hits, you use a targeted greater dispel, with your paladin level in place of your CL.

Regarding SotAO and Battle Blessing, there's no end to the debate on that one. I personally allow the two to work together when I DM, considering SotAO to essentially let you cast some Sor/Wiz spells as paladin spells. I've seen other people have them still considered Sor/Wiz spells, which means that Battle Blessing won't work but opens up other issues (such as allowing a paladin to qualify for Abjurant Champion). It's really a DM call, so YMMV.

[toapat]

*snip*

1: Vow of Poverty, eliminates your need to breath. Ive had Munchkin opposition to just using a Bottle of Air as a facemask, and actually i would prefer not to have to use it, considering that Fortification is preferable to VoP
2: While using earthglide, Tremorsense/Tremorsense Blindsight are the only abilities that allow you to detect opponents. otherwise you retain your senses.
3: this is how it is vaguely worded, it seems to imply that the Attack roll is the shatter roll, and with True strike, that just completely breaks the ability.
4: 3 different spell levels, almost maximum wisdom. Duration isnt helpful, but you can swap the Vow boosts to Int and Con so you can just scrollcast limited wish to put a Permanancy on your next casting of Tremorsense.
5: yes, it does. It explicity states in the Voluntary Poverty rules that Spellbooks/Prayerbooks and SCPs are exempt
6: See #3
7: ya, thats part of the DM reliance problem

[Piggy Knowles]

I forgot about VoP eliminating the need to breathe. Still doesn't get you around spells with verbal components, though.

And yeah, I understand that tremorsense is one of the only ways you can effectively see, but it still doesn't change the fact that it's got an insanely limited range (seriously, 30' is pretty awful), requires a lot of repeated castings, and still isn't that effective for what it does. You might be better off trying to squeeze in Mindsight somehow (Shape Soulmeld: Shedu Crown + Open Least Chakra will get you telepathy, although with Mindsight that becomes a three feat investment). Alternatively, you could pick up five levels in Earth Dreamer... that fully progresses casting and gives you both earth glide AND the ability to see through earth and stone, which is pretty nice.

Re: spellshatter, I think you're looking at it wrong.


If the attack hits, treat this as if the Mystic Fire Knight had cast a targeted greater dispel magic on the creature struck, using her paladin level (plus any arcane caster level she might have from another class) as her caster level, up to a maximum of +20.

That doesn't mean that you use the initial attack as the attack roll. It explicitly says, if the attack hits, you hit them with a targeted greater dispel. Reading the rules for a targeted greater dispel:


You make a dispel check (1d20 + your caster level, maximum +20) against the spell or against each ongoing spell currently in effect on the object or creature. The DC for this dispel check is 11 + the spell’s caster level. If you succeed on a particular check, that spell is dispelled; if you fail, that spell remains in effect.

Nothing in spellshatter says that the initial attack roll replaces your dispel check. It just references the spell itself.

Re: bonus spells, with your Wisdom of 31 and MFK, that's a total of 6 third level spells and 6 fourth level spells per day, at level 20. Not too terrible, but a little underwhelming by level 20, especially with no way to refresh yourself with wands, scrolls or pearls of power. Same goes for your plan of scrollcasting limited wish and similar tricks.

Also, just refreshed myself on VoP now that I'm home, and I still don't see where it says you can use a spellbook. All I see is:


You may
carry and use ordinary (neither magic nor masterwork) simple
weapons, usually just a quarterstaff that serves as a walking
stick. You may wear simple clothes (usually just a homespun
robe, possibly also including a hat and sandals) with no magical
properties. You may carry enough food to sustain you for one
day in a simple (nonmagic) sack or bag. You may carry and use a
spell component pouch. You may not use any magic item of any
sort, though you can benefit from magic items used on your
behalf—you can drink a potion of cure serious wounds a friend
gives you, receive a spell cast from a wand, scroll, or staff, or ride
on your companion’s ebony fly. You may not, however, “borrow” a
cloak of resistance or any other magic item from a companion for
even a single round, nor may you yourself cast a spell from a
scroll, wand, or staff.

(Emphasis mine.) I scanned through chapter 2 and again didn't see anything about spellbooks there.

[toapat]

That doesn't mean that you use the initial attack as the attack roll. It explicitly says, if the attack hits, you hit them with a targe

I scanned through chapter 2 and again didn't see anything about spellbooks there.

1: Had cast. this is actually a pretty significant distinction, because it actually means that the spell is considered to have rolled a Natural 20. the RAI is definitely Had Cast without Interruption/Has Cast
2: read again, you can have the spellbooks. Its under Voluntary Poverty, not Vow of Poverty. the reason is because it was made so that the feat wouldnt be completely useless to wizards

[eggs]

I'm not seeing the spellbooks either, but it would be possible at level 17 to get 80 levels of spells tattooed onto the caster's body. With only level 4 spells to deal with, that's not *too* restrictive (8 spells known/level, plus the paladin options).

Edit:
That's also a really bizarre reading of spellshatter. An attack roll isn't a caster level check, so even twisting tenses like that, I don't see how it applies. And True Strike doesn't affect the actual number rolled on an attack, so I'm really not sure where that interpretation is coming from.

[Piggy Knowles]

Yes, it treats it as if you had cast a targeted greater dispel. What does it mean to have cast a targeted greater dispel? It means that you make a caster level check to dispel each ongoing spell effect. There's absolutely nothing in there that says (or even implies) that the attack roll replaces the caster level check.

Re: spellbooks, I seriously just read the Voluntary Poverty section in my BoED (pp29-31), and I still don't see where it mentions spellbooks. Where exactly does it say that? I've got the book right in front of me, and I don't see it anywhere.

[Acanous]

Have you taken a look at Person Man's Sir Wisdom the SAD (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7194308&postcount=3)?

[toapat]

I'm not seeing the spellbooks either, but it would be possible at level 17 to get 80 levels of spells tattooed onto the caster's body. With only level 4 spells to deal with, that's not *too* restrictive (8 spells known/level, plus the paladin options).

2 Problems there:

1: Dragon only (being a mental illness though, it doesnt take a feat, but it is +2 int/-2 wis)
2: 20 spells/Level from the Wizard Spell list


Have you taken a look at Person Man's Sir Wisdom the SAD (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7194308&postcount=3)?

Interesting.

[eggs]

2 Problems there:

1: Dragon only (being a mental illness though, it doesnt take a feat, but it is +2 int/-2 wis)
2: 20 spells/Level from the Wizard Spell list

I'm talking about the alternate spellbook from complete arcane, p187.

[Sugashane]

There is the basic build of Monk 1/ bard 1/ Pal 18 and using Ascetic Knight and Devoted Performer.
Yes, I know Monks must be lawful and bards cannot be lawful but you can have a reason to shift, be it you find your monastery was corrupt or corrupt bureaucrats allowed a loved one to be killed without penalty to the murderer. Just use traditional Pally if you want to be lawful or Paladin of freedom if you want to be chaotic.

Unusual build that has worked great for me.

Any large character for increased damage.
Pal 5/ Monk 12
My Progression in order (P, P, M, P, M, P, M, M, P, M, M, M, M)

This build is uses no armor, focusing on the defensive abilities of the monk, and unarmed damage/flurry of the monk, while getting the most useful perks of a paladin.

Feats
Ascetic Knight
Serenity (Helps decrease MAD)
Superior Unarmed Strike (Do 4d8 level damage at 16th level)
Greater Flurry
Snap Kick (6 attacks in a full round doing 4d8 each)
Improved Grapple (Can't cast spells requiring somatic gestures when grappling)
Improved Natural Attack (If DM allows if for your unarmed strike... mine wouldn't :smallmad: LOL)

Variant Substitutions
Prayerful meditation (CC pg 48) replacing Still Mind
Holy Strike (CC pg 48) replacing Ki Strike
Resistant body (CC pg 32) replacing Purity of Body (You already have Divine Health)

Divine Grace, Serenity, a high WIS, and Evasion/Improved Evasion have allowed me to escape battles with spellcasters unharmed. Grappling allowed me to do a lot of damage while limiting their spellcasting and making their checks more difficult too.

From there you can take a PrC that allows you progression on your spellcasting if you like the Paladin spells, the War Hulk since your skills are likely lacking anyway (my DM ruled that the No Time to Think applies only in battle so it somewhat made sense, and works well if you are a follower of a deity of strength), or any other martial class that allows at least moderate BAB. Spellcasters who enlarge you to huge size improve your damage even more (4d8 goes to 6d8 plus strength increase).

I was raised by a Dwarf (think like Wulfgar) so I wanted to become accepted in the race, and followed my aforementioned progression with 3 levels of Stoneblessed (Races of Stone), 3 of hammer of Moradin (Players Guide to Faerun, and 2 of DeepWarden (Races of Stone). Very satisfying progression, going from outcast, to a hero of the Mine, accepted as a full dwarf, to killing a dragon and his minions that wiped out an entire dwarven city, to refounding the city as its king.

Hope this helped give you a few ideas.