Famous optimized character builds?

[rockdeworld]

For those of you wondering "What are the most famous overpowered TO or PO builds? Where can I find them?"

Notes:
* I've asked for specific builds only, rather than general ideas or archetypes like "DMM cleric" or "Ubercharger."
* If anyone has a link to a better/more recent build for the Hulking Hurler (still looking for the one that throws planets), the Nasty Gentleman, or the Terminator, please post a link, and I'll update it.
* In case you're interested, here is the old list. (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872646/Some_handy_links_for_CO_work)
* Due to the number of popular Practical Optimization builds, I've separated the links into TO builds and PO builds. I could use some help distinguishing them, so if you see a link in the wrong list, please let me know. My working definition for PO is "has been or probably can be played in a normal game," and it's not a hard-and-fast definition.
* The Still-Unanswered Question: if all these characters were all put in a room together (except Pun-Pun), who would come out on top? turned into this thread. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?259430-The-Ultimate-Showdown-of-Ultimate-Destiny-D-amp-D-style)

If you'd like to contribute to this list, please PM me rather than perform thread necromancy, and I'll credit you for the help.

Theoretical Builds:
Pun-Pun (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Pun-Pun_%283.5e_Optimized_Character_Build%29), by Khan the Destroyer
* on a side note, Pun Pun's stats (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2705.0), thanks to Bastian
The Omniscificer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16917909&postcount=2), by LordofProcrastination
The Terminator (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=16917943&postcount=3), by Tleilaxu_Ghola
The Wish & The Word (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/The_Wish_and_the_Word_%283.5e_Optimized_Character_ Build%29), by Frank & K
Chicken Infested Commoner (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=16917984&postcount=4), source unknown, this build by gorfnad
The Jumplomancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=16918020&postcount=5), by Caedrus
The (Tauric) Hulking Hurler (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=16918028&postcount=6), discovered by Incubus, this version by zook1shoe666
Bubs, by sonofzeal
The Twice-Betrayer of Shar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=16918086&postcount=7), by LordofProcrastination
Nanobots (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16924281&postcount=8), by LordofProcrastination (World Record build near the bottom of the first post)
Chuck E. Cheese (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16924281&postcount=9), by skydragonknight
The Emerald Legion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101587), by JeminiZero
d2 Crusader (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3300686&postcount=38), by BassetKing
The H.I.V.E. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16924377&postcount=10) by Sigmajargon.
The Shepherd, The Saint, and the Sinner (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16924395&postcount=11), by DisposableHero_ and Urnsk
The Morphling (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16924406&postcount=12), by Urnsk
The Beast (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16924415&postcount=13), by Squirrelloid
Bringer of Fated Justice (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16924422&postcount=14) by PhaedrusXY
Squibb, Goblin King (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16924430&postcount=15), by cvazi
The Silly Literalist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16924435&postcount=16), by Lusden Veharo
Mr. roboto (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16924439&postcount=17), by deathwishjoe
Theyla Eserial (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16924440&postcount=18), by thorian
Cheater of Mystra (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16924457&postcount=19) by Neonsamurai and Funny Slaughter
The Lightning Thief (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142080), by Darrin
The Basketweaver (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16924466&postcount=20), by Zemyla
The Dream of Metal (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121334), by Fishy
True Dilettante (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16939083&postcount=21), by true_shinken
Festering Anger Lad (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8280326&postcount=63), source unknown
Monty (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16939160&postcount=22), by psly4mne
Triple Cheesebuger with Onions (3*9th_Caster) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16939250&postcount=23), by Winternacht
Triple 9's (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8770.msg140055#msg140055), by PlzBreakMyCampaign
New World Record Mount Familiar Companion by HD (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142554), by PlzBreakMyCmpAn
Jovocian Bomb (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58062), by Lyinginbedmon
Supermount (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16939351&postcount=24), by Caelic, and allenchan 3 posts down
Supermount 2.0 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104367), by Dyllan
Sleeping Raven Infinite Blood Frenzy (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241913), by JeminiZero
Tauric Ubercharger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16939387&postcount=25) by swanyusd
The UberERcharger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16939503&postcount=26) by Tempest Stormwind
The Way-More-Than-Uber Centaur Charger (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8770.msg269757#msg269757), by PlzBreakMyCampaign
The Psionic Sandwich (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16939527&postcount=27) by Tleilaxu Ghola
Clone Army (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246489), by Mango Eldar
World Record (Rebuke and Command undead by HD) (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8770.msg140056#msg140056), by PlzBreakMyCampaign
Maximum SA possible (per hit), brute force method (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8770.msg140057#msg140057), by PlzBreakMyCampaign
Maximum Eldritch Blast Damage per hit (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8770.msg140058#msg140058), by PlzBreakMyCampaign
The Maximum Hit Point Tank (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8770.msg140059#msg140059), by PlzBreakMyCampaign
Maximum Skirmish (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8770.msg269756#msg269756), by PlzBreakMyCampaign
A Full CoDzilla including a maximum turning pools option (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8770.msg269758#msg269758), by PlzBreakMyCampaign
The MAXED +1sorc casting non-ascended, Non-epic Demilich kobold (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8770.msg269759#msg269759), by PlzBreakMyCampaign
The Ultimate Bear Build (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8770.msg269761#msg269761), by PlzBreakMyCampaign


Practical Builds:
Team Solars (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188138), by douglas
The Mailman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=17031158&postcount=28), by DeAnno
Cindy (http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=5890)*, by Emperor Tippy (*If this shows up as a broken link, alternate here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14084622&postcount=50))
Gatling Chain Gun Tripper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=17031191&postcount=29), by Snow_Savant
Jack B. Quick (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=17031211&postcount=30), by Caelic
Fistbeard Beardfist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116838), by Pharaoh's Fist
Takahashi no Onisan (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=153726), by ShneekeyTheLost
Ted the heiney-kicking enabler (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=17031241&postcount=31), source Yekoj, this build by prototype00
The Original "Ted the Enabler" (https://web.archive.org/web/20090708052159/http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-175652), by Yekoj
Resurrecting Ted the Enabler (https://web.archive.org/web/20090708052909/http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-545459), by Endarire
Bardic Badass (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=17031287&postcount=32), by Janus Jones
Trixie, the Pixie Party Booster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=17031452&postcount=33), by Carnivore
Feral Dreadlord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=17031499&postcount=34), by Tleilaxu_Ghola
Trouserfang Dwarf (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19914255&postcount=43), by ChrisAsmadi
The Nasty Gentleman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19914243&postcount=42), by LordofProcrastination
The Killer Gnome (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19914066&postcount=41), by Snow_Savant
I May Be Tiny, But You're Dead (the Other Killer Gnome) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19914052&postcount=40), by TheLogicNinja
King of Smack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19914037&postcount=39) by Lord Shade
PRESIDENT of Smack (https://web.archive.org/web/20090708052833/http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-519517), by RadicalTaoist
Tashalatora God of Smack (https://web.archive.org/web/20090708054529/http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-883674), by WyvernSlayer
'Trip Monk-ey' of DOOM (https://web.archive.org/web/20080208082025/http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-316793), by catharz
Flaming Homer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4108954&postcount=22), by Person_Man
Frozen Dwarf Hulk Smash!!! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50588), by Person_Man
Haberdash the Masked (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88633), by Person_Man
The Cube, by sofawall (with as close to a build as we may ever see) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14081489&postcount=41)
Algernon of the White Lilies (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19913976&postcount=38), by Doc Roc (the second build in that post)
The Big Guy Is With Me (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19913887&postcount=37), by PhaedrusXY
Eddie (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3389.msg126021#msg126021), by PhaedrusXY
The Boogeyman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19913860&postcount=36), by Caelic
Tiny Von BigMcLargeHuge (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6428.0), by Lycanthromancer
Hi Welcome (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=uogosabv8t5fkjvbg5dt9bics5&topic=9724.0;wap2), by Sunic_Flames
A Vampire PC that Doesn't Suck (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8770.msg269760#msg269760), by PlzBreakMyCampaign
Matrix Monk (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=11530.msg195532#msg195532), by Soro_Lost
The Mindslayer (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8592), by Prime32
Death from Above (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2813.msg118081#msg118081), by Maat Mons
Grapplemancer (low-level build) (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2813.msg33105#msg33105), by sirpercival
Idiot Crusader (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8218.0), by Garryl


Thanks to: everyone who posted in this thread, and especially Darrin, for quite a lot of these, including: The Original Ted, Resurrecting Ted, the President/God of SMACK, the Boogeyman, and the Trip Monk-ey of Doom

[Feytalist]

Dunno what exactly you mean by overpowered, but there's the more-real-than-reality shadowcraft mage, the mailman, the ubercharger, the jumplomancer (which is like a silly diplomancer), and then all those silly things you can do with DMM or Earth Magic or whatever.

And then a whole bunch of others that I can't be bothered to remember at the moment.

[Endarire]

That depends who goes first. (Let's exclude Pun Pun since he's assumed infinite or nearly so at this point.)

[Sith_Happens]

Chuck E. Cheese (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5788.0), a build capable of running at ~3.5 times the speed the light. No longer works due to errata.

[TroubleBrewing]

Builds I've heard of:
The Cheater of Mystra by Funny Slaughter
The totally overpowered Basketweaver
Ted the enabler by Yekoj
The King of Smack by Lord Shade
The President, Prime Minister and maybe even the parliament of Smack: CO politics
The H.I.V.E. by SigmaJargon
The Hulking Hurler, discovered by Incubus
The Morphling, Urnsk
The Beast, Squirrelloid
The Bringer of Fated Justice, PhaedrusXY
Squibb the Goblin King, cvazi
The Silly Literalist, Lusden Veharo
Mr. Roboto, deathwishjoe
Theyla Eseriel, thorian



The Cheater of Mystra uses a cleric feat to cast an anti-magic field around yourself, then uses Dweomerkeeper to get around that pesky field. You can cast out, enemies can't cast in.

The King of Smack is a psychic warrior/totemist/other things build that deals truly massive damage with unarmed damage and natural attacks. The other 'Of Smack' characters are variations on a theme.

The Hulking Hurler is a war hulk/hulking hurler build that throws planets. No, seriously.

Other builds to add would include The Nasty Gentleman and The Omniscificer. The former abuses symbiotes and familiars, while the latter knows everything after chucking himself off a cliff.

[rockdeworld]

That depends who goes first. (Let's exclude Pun Pun since he's assumed infinite or nearly so at this point.)
How do we pick who goes first? I assume there's at least one contingent celerity going off, if Initiative even gets rolled at all.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Are we including excersizes like the emerald legion in this?

I don't think bubs the commoner is the same as the chicken infested commoner. Is he?

[TuggyNE]

I don't think bubs the commoner is the same as the chicken infested commoner. Is he?

No. Bubs is a Venerable Commoner 3/Marshal 1 with maxed Handle Animal and a trio of trained Battletitans for pets.

That's ... basically it. :smallwink:

Edit 2: sudden overpowering sense of deja vu o.o

[Killer Angel]

Are we including excersizes like the emerald legion in this?

Then, why not the Solar Team (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188138)?

[Kelb_Panthera]

No. Bubs is a Venerable Commoner 3/Marshal 1 with maxed Handle Animal and a trio of trained Battletitans for pets.

That's ... basically it. :smallwink:

Edit 2: sudden overpowering sense of deja vu o.o

Meh, he's a famous build and with his reptilian buddies he's an EL 18-ish encounter. I think that should count for something.

[Wings of Peace]

Monty is a good build to know but he's from the ooooold days of the 339 boards. I forget the build but the general premise was that you had a helper who would check on you from a plane where time was random every second. If he ever popped in and things were going badly for you he had an item that let your next roll be a 20 so you always had perfect rolls.

[Amphetryon]

The Twice-Betrayer of Shar (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871166/New_Build_and_Challenge:_The_Twice-Betrayer_of_Shar)

[laeZ1]

I'd like to read up on the crazy overpowered builds. I heard about the wish and the word yesterday, and found it on D&Dwiki, can the rest of the ones listed in the original post be found there too?

[TuggyNE]

Meh, he's a famous build and with his reptilian buddies he's an EL 18-ish encounter. I think that should count for something.

Oh, definitely. I wasn't trying to undermine the impressive accomplishment Bubs is, just note how amazingly simple it comes out to be.

[toapat]

The Mystic Darkfire Knight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14061282&postcount=18) (ok, It technically was developed yesterday)

basically, exploit earthglide to hide underground. its no DPS cheese, its simply the most elegant way to build an Anti-caster in the game.

[Piggy Knowles]

The King of Smack is a psychic warrior/totemist/other things build that deals truly massive damage with unarmed damage and natural attacks. The other 'Of Smack' characters are variations on a theme.

Minor nitpick - the original King of Smack was actually a straight Psychic Warrior (or a Psion/Slayer as an alternative). The basic deal was that it combined Claws of the Beast (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/clawsoftheBeast.htm), which allows you to augment it to increase the size of the claws, with Expansion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/expansion.htm), letting you grow in size. This left you with claw attacks doing truly ridiculous amounts of damage with each hit. Then it tossed in Rapidstrike and Improved Rapidstrike to make a whole lot of claw attacks.

The other versions, including the totemist version (which is my favorite of them), all came later. But the real meat and potatoes of the build was the combination of Claws of the Beast and Expansion.

EDIT: Also, because it was pretty much the first really optimized fighter build, Snow Savant's Gatling Chain Gun Tripper (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870774/Fighter-20:_The_34;Gatling_Chain_Gun34;_Tripper). And even though it's not nearly the game-changer that the Chain Gun Tripper was, I've always been a fan of Caelic's Jack B. Quick (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869062/6_hits_to_1:_Jack_B._Quick) fighter 20 build.

[Eurus]

The Save Game trick isn't a build, per se, but it's rather lovely.

[rockdeworld]

Are we including excersizes like the emerald legion in this?
Absolutely. If you (or I) can provide a link to it, I'll add it.

However, I have to ask for specific builds only, rather than general ideas or archetypes like "DMM cleric" or "Shadowcraft Mage Gnome." (The Hulking Hurler can be an exception for now, since I've discovered a link to a Tauric version dealing exponential damage, but I'd really like to get a specific build for that too). Which reminds me, I have seen The Killer Gnome. I'll have to find a link for it. Ideally, I'll eventually have links for every build on the list.


The Mystic Darkfire Knight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14061282&postcount=18) (ok, It technically was developed yesterday)
Unfortunately, I'll have to veto that for the first part (at least until it gains widespread approval). It's still a contender for my question at the bottom of the post though.

[toapat]

Unfortunately, I'll have to veto that for the first part (at least until it gains widespread approval). It's still a contender for my question at the bottom of the post though.

fair enough. i just havent heard of anyone exploiting Earthglide in that way before.

[Piggy Knowles]

fair enough. i just havent heard of anyone exploiting Earthglide in that way before.

I've seen a few builds using Earth Glide that way, mostly involving Earth Dreamer. (For example, see JaronK's Spellthief/Shadowcraft Mage/Earth Dreamer). PhaedrusXY also won a level 10 arena contest on the old 339 boards in the very early days of 3.5 with a cleric/MoS that used Meld Into Stone in a similar fashion, although that build would be pretty outdated by today's standards. Still, it was a pretty cool concept - he managed to set it up so that, while melded, he was pretty much immune to most combatants, and then he used Clairvoyance to direct his summoned shadows and undead to take out the rest.

There was also a handbook on the old 339 boards called the Mole Handbook or some such. It was originally about using burrow to spring out and kill people, but it ended up having a good bit about using either Earth Glide or the incorporeal trait defensively.

In any case, I would say that the original Killer Gnome shadowcraft mage is enough to be an iconic CO build, even if it has since turned into more of a build archetype than one particular build. I'll try to scrape up a link to the original thread.

EDIT: Here it is, Snow Savant's original Killer Gnome (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19864158/Shadowcraft_Illusionist_=_Killer_Gnome!). Man, I forgot how many of the original CO builds that still have huge influence today were by Snow!

DOUBLE EDIT: Gah, saw you already added it well before I posted. Serves me right for not re-checking the OP.

[Darrin]

I see you've already got a link to a Chicken-Infested build, but gorfnab's got a couple Chicken-Infested builds (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9641245&postcount=3) that might be worth mentioning... the Flaming Chicken Bardblade is actually the first thing I think of whenever anyone mentions Chicken-Infested and... well, lighting them on fire.

I'd like to nominate Person_Man's Flaming Homer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4108954&postcount=22), Frozen Dwarf Hulk Smash!!! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50588), and Haberdash the Masked (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88633). They aren't Campaign-Smashers, more like "practical optimization" you can actually play, but they get mentioned often enough.

And... how could we possibly not mention Fistbeard Beardfist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116838) by Pharaoh's Fist?

Some others:

I May Be Tiny, But You're Dead (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872846/I_May_Be_Tiny_But_Youre_Dead_the_other_melee_Kille r_Gnome_for_your_pleasure) (the Other Killer Gnome) by LogicNinja.

Takahashi no Onisan (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=153726) by ShneekeyTheLost. One of the gold standards for Fear/Demoralize optimization.

Cindy (http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=5890) by Emperor Tippy. Might need a little more of a write-up, since it's not obvious from the character sheet how she's overpowered.

I'm having trouble locating the original BardBlade, which has been somewhat popular recently.

[Psyren]

Absolutely. If you (or I) can provide a link to it, I'll add it.

If you're allowing "named tricks," there's a whole slew of psionic ones in my signature (with thanks to KA for compiling them.) You can just link to that whole thread.

The tricks themselves are very basic (e.g. Psionic Dreadnought or Erudite Concerto can be put on a variety of frameworks) so they aren't fleshed out much beyond the interactions themselves.

[Snowbluff]

I'm having trouble locating the original BardBlade, which has been somewhat popular recently.

Is there an original Bardblade/Bladesader? It's literally Song of the White Raven combined with good Inspire Courage OP (Song of the Heart, Words of Creation, and then DFI with a Dualsongs PrC).

[Darrin]

BassetKing's original d2 Crusader (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2795682&postcount=18) was "Cleric 1/Crusader 13" (although he mentions an earlier build, probably from one of the older wizards/gleemax TO boards, that didn't actually work). Here's an update he posted to the d2 Crusader (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3300686&postcount=38) that adds a level of PsyWar.

(You can actually get it working around ECL 9-10 if you use Bloodline levels, assuming you can figure out how Bloodline levels work.)

[rockdeworld]

I'm having trouble locating the original BardBlade, which has been somewhat popular recently.
Could this be what you're referring to?
Bladesinger (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Bladesinger_%283.5e_Optimized_Character_Build%29)


If you're allowing "named tricks," there's a whole slew of psionic ones in my signature (with thanks to KA for compiling them.) You can just link to that whole thread.
Not tricks, but rather builds, ready to be put into play (or critiqued, from an optimization standpoint).

Also, the Cindy link seems to not work.

[eggs]

As far as specific named builds, if you follow this (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872646/Some_handy_links_for_CO_work) link, you'll see most of the fairly-frequently-references old builds, TO and not, in the build section.

It's a bit of a crapshoot whether you'll still be able to find all of those (most of the links are dead, but google and the wayback machine turn up a fair number), but it should at least give some search terms.

[rockdeworld]

As far as specific named builds, if you follow this (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872646/Some_handy_links_for_CO_work) link, you'll see most of the fairly-frequently-references old builds, TO and not, in the build section.

It's a bit of a crapshoot whether you'll still be able to find all of those (most of the links are dead, but google and the wayback machine turn up a fair number), but it should at least give some search terms.
Yeah, my problem with that thread has been that since the wotc forum update, all the old links are broken. As far as names go, it seems to be a good list though.

[Radar]

Absolutely. If you (or I) can provide a link to it, I'll add it.
Your wish has been granted. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101587)

There was also The Cube by Sofawall - a Commoner with the Landlord feat abusing his WBL and Spellclocks to build an indestructible tank. The exact build was never revealed, but it was one of the two unbeatable builds in Test of Spite (the other was one of Doc Roc's creations, which name I forgot).

I also recall a build made to destroy a fully powered Pun-Pun. I only know, it was called The Neo-Terminator and I guess it was either Doc Roc's or Tleilaxu Ghola's (WoTC boards) creation. I never found the exact build, but it revolved around swimming up the time stream thanks to some psionic powers. If anyone has any exact information, I'd be happy to see them.

[eggs]

Ooo. Looks like one of those links hasn't been pared: TG's Terminator (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19861610/TGs_Pun-Pun_Challenger:_34;The_Terminator34;_%28Finalized% 29)

[Darrin]

Could this be what you're referring to?
Bladesinger (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Bladesinger_%283.5e_Optimized_Character_Build%29)


No. Found it. OneWinged4ngel referred to it in several threads, and then says the page got devoured by the wizards/gleemax board migration when someone asked for the link. He may have been referring to another TWF build, but I think this is the original BardBlade:

Song of Death: Bardic Badass (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19864106/Song_of_Death:_Bardic_Badass) by JanusJones.

(Odd. I could have sworn it was Bard 4/Warblade 16, but he has Bard 3/Warblade 17.)



Also, the Cindy link seems to not work.

I was afraid of that... fortunately, I saved a copy. I'll see if I can repost it later... however, I should probably check with Tippy first.

[Darrin]

Couple more:

Cheater of Mystra (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872770/new_build:_The_Cheater_of_Mystra) by Neonsamurai and Funny Slaughter.

King of Smack (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19866038/The_king_of_smack) by Lord Shade.

This post (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872646/Some_handy_links_for_CO_work) appears to have some updated links, and a longer list of optimized builds. We haven't mentioned Supermount/Ubermount, for example.

[rockdeworld]

Cheater of Mystra (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872770/new_build:_The_Cheater_of_Mystra) by Neonsamurai and Funny Slaughter.

King of Smack (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19866038/The_king_of_smack) by Lord Shade.
Thanks (to you, and indirectly to everyone else who has posted an idea or a link).

Also, Is this the totally overpowered basketweaver? (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=150.msg1260#msg1260)

[A_S]

Not sure if Domain Generalist is what you're looking for, since it's not so much a "build" as a way of getting level 9 spells at level 1, and then you can do whatever for the other 19 levels. A well-known optimization trick, though.

[Talionis]

Is there ever a final version of the Monk that throws himself all over the place?
Here is a link with Jaron K and Lycanthromancer talking about ideas: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?action=printpage;topic=11728.0

I feel like I read another one somewhere else that really was a fleshed out build that had figured out the actual (very very fast) speed at which the monk could throw himself around.

[Darrin]

Also, Is this the totally overpowered basketweaver? (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=150.msg1260#msg1260)

No... an old forum post says this is the totally overpowered basketweaver (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871166/New_Build_and_Challenge:_The_Twice-Betrayer_of_Shar?post_id=338384398#338384398).

(I think this was an in-joke among the optimizers before the Basketweaver's Handbook was actually put together.)

Also:

The H.I.V.E. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5943.0;wap2) by Sigmajargon.

This thread (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/20019689/I_know_its_a_long_shot_but_) has a bunch of builds from LoP's 100^10 competition:

The Shepherd, The Saint, and The Sinner (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/20019689/I_know_its_a_long_shot,_but_...&post_num=4#344288617) by DisposableHero and Urnsk
The Morphling (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/20019689/I_know_its_a_long_shot,_but_...&post_num=5#344288865) by Urnsk
The Beast (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/20019689/I_know_its_a_long_shot,_but_...&post_num=6#344289429) by Squirrelloid
Bringer of Fated Justice (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/20019689/I_know_its_a_long_shot,_but_...&post_num=7#344290545) by PhaedrusXY
Squibb, Goblin King (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/20019689/I_know_its_a_long_shot,_but_...&post_num=8#344290841) by cvazi
The Silly Literalist (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/20019689/I_know_its_a_long_shot,_but_...&post_num=9#344291493) by Lusden Veharo
Mr. roboto (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/20019689/I_know_its_a_long_shot,_but_...&post_num=10#344291717) by deathwishjoe
Theyla Eserial (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/20019689/I_know_its_a_long_shot,_but_...&post_num=11#344292113) by thorian

As for Ted the enabler... apparently he was just a Factotum 11/Chameleon 9 loaded down with FoI in every feat slot, intended as a jack-of-all-trades NPC that could be anything or get anything for the party. I can't find the original, but this post of Ted the heiney-kicking enabler (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19861854/Ted_the_heiney_kicking_enabler) seems to be an update.

[avr]

The Wish and the Word comes from Frank and K I believe.

[ShriekingDrake]

While not as powerful as many of what you've already posted, I think carnivore's Trixie the Party Booster (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19867902/Trixie_the_Party_Booster) is at least worth a look.

[rockdeworld]

Hah, I found The Lightning Thief (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142080), by Darrin, whose humility I guess kept him from posting it himself. Someone else referenced it and I found it, so I've added it.

Also there's the other landlord. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13077850&postcount=6) Is that famous?

Also: The Question. I'm guessing that Blasphemy from The Word drops everyone else like hot potatoes, am I mistaken?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Haven't seen this one mentioned:

The Feral Dreadlord (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871422/Feral_Dreadlord:_SA,_TWF,_9th_Level_Maneuvers,_SAD _in_one_package)

[Cicciograna]

Here we have the True Dilettante (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19866566/The_True_Dilettante_-_New_Feat_Record_-_504_feats), by true_shinken.

[Darrin]

The specifics on sofawall's Cube have never been posted, and last I heard, he isn't interested in posting the details. The actual *character* build has been mentioned a couple times, but is even simpler than the overpowered basketweaver:

Commoner (any level) with a single feat: Landlord.

That's it. That's the build. That gave him enough WBL to build an indestructable box:



The Cube? That was me.


Prismatic Wall
Wall of Force
Magically Hardened Obdurium
Lead
Dirt
Me


Part of the defenses was a spellclock spamming 40 walls of dispel magic a round, to counter disjunction, I think. See sofawall's post here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8187767&postcount=7) for some additional details.

Here's another build that should probably be mentioned:

The Dream of Metal (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121334).

[ShriekingDrake]

This thread was a very good idea. I do not wish to deviate from the intent here, but had an observation.

I haven't gone to look at each build recently--though I've seen a lot of them over the years--but I don't recall any of these builds being a druid. I may have overlooked something, however. What's interesting about this to me is that Druids are often (rightfully) identified as being a dominant class. It is a class, it seems, that is a "band of one" rather than offering support to more robust builds. Anyway, it was just a thought.

[KOVAV]

I have to agree with you about the druids power.they can act pretty much alone (spellcaster that can maul the crap out of you melee, so obviously)....maybe the reason that there are few to no (famous) charecter builds for them is that are optomized, because a pretty straight forward cookie cutter druid is powerful enouph so that some stuff is nerfed or modified by some GM's anyway. I mean, I just made my first druid charecter, he's level 15 and when asked what role he would play in combat, I said "everything, lol"

[Draz74]

You may want to re-edit the OP, because I'd argue that some of these aren't actually Theoretical Optimization. In particular, The Other Killer Gnome, Haberdash the Masked, and the original King of Smack are all perfectly playable builds at a normal semi-optimized table.


Cindy (http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=5890)*, by Emperor Tippy (*Broken link)

This link is working fine for me. I don't think I just have the page cached; I hit Refresh and it still displayed fine.

[Suddo]

Arsepolmancer isn't included.

And obviously the Basketweaver wins.

[Answerer]

This thread was a very good idea. I do not wish to deviate from the intent here, but had an observation.

I haven't gone to look at each build recently--though I've seen a lot of them over the years--but I don't recall any of these builds being a druid. I may have overlooked something, however. What's interesting about this to me is that Druids are often (rightfully) identified as being a dominant class. It is a class, it seems, that is a "band of one" rather than offering support to more robust builds. Anyway, it was just a thought.
I think it's largely that Druid's too easy. Just take Natural Spell, 10 levels of Planar Shepherd, and maybe genesis.

[toapat]

I would amend my Mystic Darkfire Knight so that she can beat the Totally Overpowered Basketweaver, but i used the second flaw to get Combat reflexes, not Wedded to History

[maximus25]

Are there any of these for Pathfinder?

I'd be interested to know some of the stuff we've been doing with that.

[toapat]

Are there any of these for Pathfinder?

I'd be interested to know some of the stuff we've been doing with that.

Druid comes to mind first and foremost.

but from what i understand, PF is much more sedated then 3.5

[Darrin]

This link is working fine for me. I don't think I just have the page cached; I hit Refresh and it still displayed fine.

If the Cindy (http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=5890) link isn't working for you, I got permission from Emperor Tippy to post the build.

Note: Cindy was actually built by Karsh (says so on the character sheet) based on ideas from Emperor Tippy, who had a very similar build called Akakrin (http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=7809). They were designed to work together in the same campaign ("The Grinder"). Akakrin is a little different, working in the Black Lore of Moil and Ray Extension instead of Energy Substitution/Admixture, and finishes off with Archmage 3 instead of Olin Gisir 1/Archmage 2. Cindy's "signature ubermetamagic" spell was an orb of fire (substituted to cold damage), while Akakrin's was enervation. A word of caution: I was not part of this campaign, and never saw either character in actual play, so take everything in this post with a grain of salt.

Solnae Nalithavain (Cindy) Silverstar
Grey Elf
Str 6, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 26, Wis 10, Cha 8
HP: 64, AC: 21
Fort: +11, Ref +13, Will +21

1) Elven Generalist Wizard 1. Scribe Scroll >DCS> Spell Focus: Transmutation. Iron Will.
2) Wizard 2.
3) Wizard 3. Empower Spell.
4) Wizard 4.
5) Wizard 5. Spontaneous Divination Sub level.
6) Incantatrix 1. Piercing Cold Spell. Energy Substitution: Cold (Inc1). Evoc barred.
7) Incantatrix 2.
8) Incantatrix 3.
9) Incantatrix 4. Arcane Thesis: Orb of Fire. Twin Spell (Inc4).
10) Incantatrix 5.
11) Incantatrix 6.
12) Incantatrix 7. Quicken Spell. Fell Drain (Inc7).
13) Incantatrix 8.
14) Incantatrix 9.
15) Incantatrix 10. Easy Metamagic: Quicken Spell. Invisible Spell (Inc10).
16) Olin Gisir 1.
17) Archmage 1. High Arcana: Arcane Reach.
18) Archmage 2. Easy Metamagic: Twin Spell. High Arcana: Spell Power.

Other Feats:
Secret: Maximize Spell (??? - not sure where this came from).
Flaw: Non-Combatant -> Extend Spell
Flaw: Slow -> Persistent Spell
MWP: Longsword >DCS> Easy Metamagic: Maximize.
MWP: Rapier >DCS> Energy Admixture: Cold.
*MWP: Shortbow >DCS> Chain Spell.
*MWP: Longbow >DCS> Energy Admixture.
*MWP: Shortbow >DCS> Skill Focus: Spellcraft.
*MWP: Longbow >DCS> Spell Focus: Necromancy.

* = listed twice, the first two in the Feats section, the last two in the Other Notes section.

Butterfly familiar, with Bonded Familiar listed as a substitution level (???), which I'm not familiar with.

Empowered (+0) Maximized (+0) Energy Substituted (-1) Piercing Cold (+0) Fell Draining (+0) Invisible (-1) Twinned (+1) Energy Admixed (+1) Orb of Fire - 2x (180 + 15d6 Cold Damage + 1 Negative Level, no save, Fort Save or Dazed for 1 round)

Spellbook

0-level spells: All
1st: Alarm, Shield, Grease, Charm Person, Silent Image, Ray of Enfeeblement, Enlarge Person, Ray of Clumsiness, Endure Elements, Obscuring Mist, Lesser Orb of Acid/Sound, Summon Undead I, Feather Fall, Benign Transposition, Nerveskitter, Magic Aura, Unseen Servant

2nd: Glitterdust, Web, Shatter, Create Magic Tattoo, Baleful Transposition, Ray of Stupidity, Sonorous Hum, Resist Energy, Bear\'s Endurance, Scintillating Scales, Minor Image

3rd: Dispel Magic, Fly, Magic Circle against Evil, Stinking Cloud, Ray of Exhaustion, Greater Magic Weapon, Haste, Slow, Shivering Touch

4th: Dimensional Anchor, Orb of Fire, Improved Blindsight, Resilient Sphere, Enervation, Celerity, Greater Mirror Image, Summon Undead IV, Orb of Force

5th: Dimension Jumper, Wall of Stone, Dominate Person, Shadow Evocation, Greater Blink, Graymantle, Baleful Polymorph, Dragonsight, Duelward

6th: Greater Dispel Magic, Greater Heroism, Disintegrate, Greater Anticipate Teleportation, Freezing Fog, Fleshshiver

7th: Energy Immunity, Banishment, Greater Teleport, Finger of Death, Magnificent Mansion, Reverse Gravity, Greater Stone Shape, Ironguard, Control Weather

8th: Mind Blank, Irresistable Dance, Greater Shadow Evocation, Mass Make Manifest, Greater Celerity, Superior Invisibility, Wrathful Castigation, Greater Bestow Curse

9th: Absorption, Shapechange, Maw of Chaos, Reaving Dispel, Prismatic Sphere, Dominate Monster, Time Stop, Mindrape, Disjunction


What isn't listed on the character sheet are Cindy and Akakrin's tactics, which is what made them nigh-unkillable: start the day with some spontaneous divinations to get a general idea of what they might be facing later, and then tailor their all-day persisted buffs to counter that. My best guess is they started with a chained superior invisibility for the entire party (Akakrin has it listed on his sheet), then haste, ironguard, mind blank, greater blink, greater heroism, or shapechange as need be.

[Radar]

This thread was a very good idea. I do not wish to deviate from the intent here, but had an observation.

I haven't gone to look at each build recently--though I've seen a lot of them over the years--but I don't recall any of these builds being a druid. I may have overlooked something, however. What's interesting about this to me is that Druids are often (rightfully) identified as being a dominant class. It is a class, it seems, that is a "band of one" rather than offering support to more robust builds. Anyway, it was just a thought.
My guess is, that there aren't that many PrCs available for Druids and their spell list is not as versatile as Wizard's. Clerics get more use due to Turn Undead alternative uses and a few choice class-specific feats. A Druid is a base for the Ubermount build though (which combines Animal Companion with Paladin's Mount and Wizard's Familiar).

[Piggy Knowles]

People are interested in famous optimized druid builds and no one's mentioned Hi Welcome (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9724.0) yet?

[Kelb_Panthera]

People are interested in famous optimized druid builds and no one's mentioned Hi Welcome (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9724.0) yet?

No offense, piggy, but that's not a build. It's a typical druid with a name. He's also made one of the more glaring RAW errors concerning his fleshraker animal companion, in that he advanced its size when it hit 9hd because of the animal companion bonus HD.

[rockdeworld]

You may want to re-edit the OP, because I'd argue that some of these aren't actually Theoretical Optimization. In particular, The Other Killer Gnome, Haberdash the Masked, and the original King of Smack are all perfectly playable builds at a normal semi-optimized table.

This link is working fine for me. I don't think I just have the page cached; I hit Refresh and it still displayed fine.
I think you're right about the builds. Can you help me differentiate between the TO and PO builds?

As for Cindy, still doesn't work for me. Possibly because I am currently in China. Does it work for anyone else?

[Piggy Knowles]

No offense, piggy, but that's not a build. It's a typical druid with a name. He's also made one of the more glaring RAW errors concerning his fleshraker animal companion, in that he advanced its size when it hit 9hd because of the animal companion bonus HD.

Eh, not going to offend me - it's not my build. There are a number of issues with it that are at least questionable, such as writing warbeast training into a backstory to get a free bonus, applying the magebred template to a companion when ECS specifically prohibits it, and the somewhat iffy usage of Natural Bond. Most of it is ambiguous enough that there's some justification (warbeast rules only require Handle Animal checks and time, Five Nations has some magebred ACs, the only thing that references ACs not changing size for bonus HD is the FAQ/rules of the game, not any physical source or errata).

But it's still a well-known druid build, even if that has more to do with the questionable rules and notoriety of the author than it does the build itself.

[Darrin]

Monty (http://web.archive.org/web/20070325230455/boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=690806) by psly4mne.

Just in case this gets eaten by langoliers, I'm going to spoiler it here for posterity.


Monty, or complete invulnerability without Manipulate Form

Goal: To create a character to whom nothing bad can ever happen (ever). This is done using very limited material.

References:
Omniscificer
Temporal Workshop, Neo-Terminator
Pun-Pun
The Terminator
The original Pun thread
Obviously, this concept borrows heavily from the Terminator and the Neo-Terminator.
Thanks go to Tleilaxu_Ghola for all his help.

Premise: Any challenger is born after the trio ascends.
New Trick: The Dorje of Time Regression
It's not really groundbreaking, but it's worth pointing out. Mini-Monty (Monty's clone) needs to be able to manifest Time Regression many times. He can't afford the XP, so he uses a dorje with 1 charge. When Mini-Monty manifests Time Regression from the dorje, it does not cost him XP (the XP cost was paid when the dorje was created). It also does not use up the charge from the dorje (OK, it does, but the charge is restored when the power takes effect). This is because the charge disappears when the power is manifested, but all events in that round (except the XP cost, which is circumvented by using a dorje) are undone. Essentially, Mini-Monty can manifest Time Regression at will.

Monty
Necropolitan Human Seer 20
Leadership
Undead Leadership
EK(Fission)
EK(Fusion)
EK(Mind Switch)
Powers: Metafaculty, Psionic True Seeing

Jay (cohort)
Necropolitan Human Nomad 7/Metamind 10
Psicrystal Affinity
Powers: Temporal Reiteration

Stefan (undead cohort)
Necropolitan Human Wizard 17
Spells: Time Stop, Greater Arcane Sight, Gate (planar travel version only)

Items
+1 Returning Dart (8300.5 gp)
Dorje of Time Regression with 1 charge (1148 gp)

Part 1: Creating Mini-Monty (This is the important setup)
The trio travel to the Far Realms through a Gate.
Monty manifests Fission, creating Clone 1. Clone 1 manifests Fusion with Jay, then with Stefan. Clone 1 manifests Fission, creating Mini-Monty. Mini-Monty takes Monty's dart and dorje.
Monty returns to the Material Plane. As a non-Far Realms native, he returns at the time he left. He will simply continue his life as normal. Designate this time (in Material time) as round 0.
Mini-Monty casts Time Stop. Every round, Mini-Monty will manifest Temporal Reiteration to keep the effects (currently Fission, Fusions, and Time Stop) going. Mini-Monty activates Font of Power.

Part 2: Time-scrubbing (This is complicated. I know.)
1. Mini-Monty casts Gate to the Astral. Because Mini-Monty originated in the Far Realms, the gat opens to a random time in the material timeline. If the Gate does not open to round 0, he manifests Time Regression to before he cast Gate. Repeat until he has a Gate to round 0. Mini-Monty steps through the Gate. Call it Gate 1.
2. Mini-Monty steps through Gate 1 to the Far Realms, then closes it. He casts Gate to the Astral. Call it Gate 2. If the Gate does not open to some time after the last time Mini-Monty visited the Astral (but no more than 1 round after), he manifests Time Regression to before he opened Gate 2 and tries again.
3. Mini-Monty throws the Returning Dart through Gate 2. If it disappears, go to step 7. Otherwise, he catches it.
4. Mini-Monty travels through the Gate to the Astral.
5. Mini-Monty uses Metafaculty on Monty to check whether anything bad has happened to him. He casts Gate to a place 120 ft. from Monty and steps through it. If this is impossible, go to step 8. Mini-Monty checks up on Monty with Greater Arcane Sight and Psionic True Seeing, just to make sure. If anything bad has happened to Monty, go to step 8.
6. Monty manifests Time Regression back to before he opened Gate 2. This has no effect on the Material timeline, but it restores the spell slots used. Return to step 2.
7. Mini-Monty opens a Gate to the Astral. Unless it opens to one round before the problem was detected (but no more that 1 round before), manifest Time Regression to undo that Gate and try again. Manifest Psionic Minor Creation and toss a turnip through the Gate. If the turnip disappears, repeat this step, creating a Gate that opens to at most one round before the time the last Gate opened to. The final result is that Mini-Monty has a Gate opening to the last time (within 1 round) that Monty's existence is consistent. Mini-Monty steps through the Gate.
8. Mini-Monty manifests Time Regression until he is back at the end of step 1. This rewinds all action in the Material timeline after round 0. Return to the end of step 1. (note that this means Mini-Monty will start the process over, beginning with checking after round 0)
9. There is no step 9.
10. Profit.

The end result is that nothing bad can ever happen to Monty. He lives until the end of time.

Sources used:
Core+XPH
Complete Psionic (Temporal Reiteration)
Libris Mortis (Undead Leadersip, Necropolitan template)
__________________
The 4 is silent.

If nothing else, I have learned two truths of character optimization:
1. The best kind of kill is overkill.
2. There is no substitute for a working knowlege of the ins and outs of the spacetime continuum.


Near as I can tell, the Neo-Terminator was never posted as an actual build. Tleilaxu Ghola had a thread called "Temporal Workshop: Finding Time-tricks to Kill Pun-Pun (http://web.archive.org/web/20070717224217/http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=673975)". But he never finished it, and I'm having trouble finding all the pieces of that thread. The people in later threads referring to the "Neo-Terminator" aren't referring to an actual finished build, they're usually referring to a handful of time-tricks that the theoretical Neo-Terminator would use. Tleilaxu Ghola started working on the "Ghola Character" thread after that, and that appears to be eaten by langoliers as well.

Some more:

Tripple 9 (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19864458/A_Successful_Tripple_9s_Build) by PlzBreakMyCampaign, although I think Winternacht's version (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19864206/Tripple_Cheesebuger_with_Onions_(3*9th_Caster)) might be more commonly known.

Jovocian Bomb (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58062) by Lyinginbedmon.

Supermount (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19866958/Supermount!) by Caelic (although allenchan's (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19866958/Supermount!&post_num=3#338234174) version two posts later is the more common interpretation).

Supermount 2.0 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104367) by Dyllan.

New World Record Mount Familiar Companion by HD (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142554) by PlzBreakMyCmpAn (not sure if he gave it a proper name).

[toapat]

[QUOTE=Darrin;14087180Supermount (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19866958/Supermount!) by Caelic (although allenchan's (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19866958/Supermount!&post_num=3#338234174) version two posts later is the more common interpretation).

Supermount 2.0 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104367) by Dyllan.

New World Record Mount Familiar Companion by HD (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142554) by PlzBreakMyCmpAn (not sure if he gave it a proper name).[/QUOTE]

Just my personal opinion, all of those builds focus so much on buffing the mount, that your character isnt a character anymore, but one of the most desireable magic items in the game, and thus should become susceptible to Dysjunction.

"Dysjunction"
"You know im only wearing a mundane saddle, right?"
"What about that paladin over there?"
"NOOOO!"

[Snowbluff]

Just my personal opinion, all of those builds focus so much on buffing the mount, that your character isnt a character anymore, but one of the most desireable magic items in the game, and thus should become susceptible to Dysjunction.

"Dysjunction"
"You know im only wearing a mundane saddle, right?"
"What about that paladin over there?"
"NOOOO!"

The Draconomicon talks about not allowing your Paladin's Draconic Mount ot overshadow him. Then Ubermount happened.

Do we have the Cheatiest build yet. I don't remember who made it, but it came up when I was fiddling in ToM. Archivist3/AnimaMage(Divine adaption)10/TenebrousApostate5. Free DMM, 15th level Binding, Fullcasting from a large list...

[gooddragon1]

Festering Anger Lad (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8280326&postcount=63).

Not much but it's infinite strength at level 1 for a feat and a disease.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Monty makes me ill. I think he should die in a fire, but I've got to get mini-monty first.:smallfurious:

*takes a deep breath* Time-travel shennanigans just bug me.

[toapat]

Festering Anger Lad (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8280326&postcount=63).

Not much but it's infinite strength at level 1 for a feat and a disease.

you are missing Wedded to History and Skill Focus (Basketweaving)

[Xervous]

Trouserfang Dwarf (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19860262/The_Trouserfang_Dwarf:_A_Rebirth)

surprised this one isn't on here yet

[Dusk Eclipse]

I don't see why the Feral Dreadlord and Takahashi no Onisan are in the Theoretical builds, the first is just a really effective TWFighter and the other is an intimidate-based lockdown build, if you are immune to fear or mind affecting you are immune to him and at level 13 is quite easy to get that immunity.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I don't see why the Feral Dreadlord and Takahashi no Onisan are in the Theoretical builds, the first is just a really effective TWFighter and the other is an intimidate-based lockdown build, if you are immune to fear or mind affecting you are immune to him and at level 13 is quite easy to get that immunity.

I quite agree with this concerning Takahashi. While surprisingly strong for a CW Samurai... he is by no means TO, since it is relatively easy to become immune to him. Heck, I used him in Test of Spite, definitely within the realm of Practical Optimization, not Theoretical.

[Darrin]

The line between "theoretical" and "practical" may be difficult to establish.

That being said... possibly "practical" builds:

Chicken Infested Commoner (so long as you consider infinite flaming chickens "playable")
The Mailman (overkilling something by +600 HP doesn't make it *more* dead.)
Gatling Chain Gun Tripper (secondary poster child for the Fighter 20 diehards)
Jack B. Quick (primary poster child for the Fighter 20 diehards)
The Killer Gnome (well, except for 100% real imaginary miracles)
Fistbeard Beardfist
Ted the heiney-kicking enabler (was originally designed for actual play as an NPC)
Bardic Badass (even better when you add flaming chickens)
Trixie, the Pixie Party Booster (she is designed to buff the party... or completely daze the bajeezus out of everything that moves)
The totally overpowered basketweaver (assuming the player is also immortal)


Speaking of which, I think the totally overpowered basketweaver was by Zemyla, not zombiegleemax. I assume zombiegleemax is some sort "default userid" assigned to anyone from the gleemax forum that didn't have the same userid on the wizards boards when they were trying to do thread necromancy on the old gleemax material.

[Draz74]

The line between "theoretical" and "practical" may be difficult to establish.
Definitely highly subjective.


Chicken Infested Commoner (so long as you consider infinite flaming chickens "playable")
... I'm pretty sure no DM would ever allow this build unless they allow Theoretical Optimization or they're going for a cartoon-humor campaign.


The Mailman (overkilling something by +600 HP doesn't make it *more* dead.)
No, but he's still an extremely competent Sorcerer/Incantatrix anyway. And personally, if I'm the DM, anything that abuses Incantatrix goes in the Theoretical category, including Cindy. Granted, this is definitely an example of a build that might be PO in some groups while being TO in other groups.


Gatling Chain Gun Tripper (secondary poster child for the Fighter 20 diehards)
Jack B. Quick (primary poster child for the Fighter 20 diehards)
I'm not super-familiar with the first, but if it's a similar power level to Jack B Quick, I agree with moving it into the "Practical" category. For that matter, Saph's Horizon Tripper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80415) (a core-only, multiclassed version of the GCGT) should probably be added to the list of well-known builds too.


The Killer Gnome (well, except for 100% real imaginary miracles)
Theoretical in my book; similar power level to Incantatrixes.


Fistbeard Beardfist
Yeah, this can probably qualify as Practical. It's probably slightly weaker than Flaming Homer, which I'd still (probably, grudgingly) allow as Practical.


Ted the heiney-kicking enabler (was originally designed for actual play as an NPC)
Bardic Badass (even better when you add flaming chickens)
Trixie, the Pixie Party Booster (she is designed to buff the party... or completely daze the bajeezus out of everything that moves)
The totally overpowered basketweaver (assuming the player is also immortal)

I'm not familiar enough with these to have an opinion.

[rockdeworld]

It's true that TO vs PO can be subjective. Even the CharOp boards on wizards.com have trouble defining the difference (and they're more inclusive anyway with the board rearrangement). Obviously it's easy to distinguish in practice: if someone's asking for help with a build in/for a game, it's practical, whereas if they're presenting a thought experiment, it's theoretical. But given a build, it can be difficult to say one way or the other.

I could probably make a list of the differences, but perhaps it would simply be a better use of everyone's time to try and categorize the builds by tiers, rather than PO vs TO. In that respect we're already helped by the existing tier system for classes.

I can't find it ATM, but IIRC Pun-Pun is "tier -1." I assume most of the other TO builds (Omniscifier, Wish & Word, Terminator, Twice Betrayer of Shar) are tier 0. The rest are tier 1. Does that sound about right?

[toapat]

It's true that TO vs PO can be subjective. Even the CharOp boards on wizards.com have trouble defining the difference (and they're more inclusive anyway with the board rearrangement). Obviously it's easy to distinguish in practice: if someone's asking for help with a build in/for a game, it's practical, whereas if they're presenting a thought experiment, it's theoretical. But given a build, it can be difficult to say one way or the other.

I could probably make a list of the differences, but perhaps it would simply be a better use of everyone's time to try and categorize the builds by tiers, rather than PO vs TO. In that respect we're already helped by the existing tier system for classes.

I can't find it ATM, but IIRC Pun-Pun is "tier -1." I assume most of the other TO builds (Omniscifier, Wish & Word, Terminator, Twice Betrayer of Shar) are tier 0. The rest are tier 1. Does that sound about right?

Practical Optimization is optimization that does not at any one point yield a character who is exceptionally behind where they want to be

Theoretical Optimization is optimization looking to reach a level of power at a certain level, without significant regard to how far it is behind the curve before that point. my Mystic Darkfire Knight is solidly TO, as the build, without DM Fiat to use a Bottle of Air/decanter of endless air as a scubatank, does not function before lvl 15

[rockdeworld]

Practical Optimization is optimization that does not at any one point yield a character who is exceptionally behind where they want to be

Theoretical Optimization is optimization looking to reach a level of power at a certain level, without significant regard to how far it is behind the curve before that point. my Mystic Darkfire Knight is solidly TO, as the build, without DM Fiat to use a Bottle of Air/decanter of endless air as a scubatank, does not function before lvl 15
I thought of that, but then I remembered that some campaigns start at higher levels.

Also lol about your builld :smallsmile: And thanks for giving me another chance to post, because I wanted to put in this:

Do we have the Cheatiest build yet. I don't remember who made it, but it came up when I was fiddling in ToM. Archivist3/AnimaMage(Divine adaption)10/TenebrousApostate5. Free DMM, 15th level Binding, Fullcasting from a large list...
If you can find me a link, I'll certainly add it.

[Amphetryon]

Practical Optimization is optimization that does not at any one point yield a character who is exceptionally behind where they want to be

Theoretical Optimization is optimization looking to reach a level of power at a certain level, without significant regard to how far it is behind the curve before that point. my Mystic Darkfire Knight is solidly TO, as the build, without DM Fiat to use a Bottle of Air/decanter of endless air as a scubatank, does not function before lvl 15

By that definition, Pun-Pun - who reaches overdeity status at level 1 - is PO, since at no time is he behind where he wants to be in the curve. Is that what you meant?

[toapat]

I thought of that, but then I remembered that some campaigns start at higher levels.Also lol about your builld :smallsmile: And thanks for giving me another chance to post, because I wanted to put in this:

The reason is, the build is based off of using Earthglide to essentially hide from casters.

you dont get earthglide before lvl 12


By that definition, Pun-Pun - who reaches overdeity status at level 1 - is PO, since at no time is he behind where he wants to be in the curve. Is that what you meant?

Actually, he is. Pun-pun would prefer to hit puberty after he attains godhood.

[Answerer]

Ah, we seem to be missing the Joker Bard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5496158).

I dunno how famous it is, but it's one of my favorite "named builds".

[TuggyNE]

Practical Optimization is optimization that does not at any one point yield a character who is exceptionally behind where they want to be

Theoretical Optimization is optimization looking to reach a level of power at a certain level, without significant regard to how far it is behind the curve before that point. my Mystic Darkfire Knight is solidly TO, as the build, without DM Fiat to use a Bottle of Air/decanter of endless air as a scubatank, does not function before lvl 15

I really have to disagree with this. It's entirely possible to have a PO build that only matures at a certain point (and before that is rather unpleasant to play); it is likewise possible to have a TO build that increases in power rather linearly, or better, with no significant gaps. (I don't understand your remark about Pun-Pun wishing to hit puberty after ascension at all; build-wise, he's kinda lame, but playable, until he starts to ascend, and then rapidly becomes more and more capable.)

Instead, the difference is in whether they are intended for actual play (and have corresponding limitations on their powers, and relatively fleshed-out defenses and utilities), or are merely an interesting exercise in rules-stretching. Pun-Pun, despite being entirely playable from character creation straight through to ascension, is not designed for actual table use at all.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Ah, we seem to be missing the Joker Bard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5496158).

I dunno how famous it is, but it's one of my favorite "named builds".

He's not really 'TO' either. In fact, he's not really a Character Build at all, so much as a treatise on how the GM can legitimately counter such tactics as Scry n Die that a PO Batman Wizard is likely to employ.

Granted, he's a nice concept, but there's nothing particularly optimized in Rogue1 (changling racial variant)/Bard19. Or, with the alternate, Rogue1/Bard9/Spymaster10.

Now mind you, he CAN be set up to Diplomance, and has some exceedingly obnoxious tricks which lets him pull it off very well. But his greatest assets lie in being unable to be predicted or tracked. Which makes him rather less effective as a PC.

[Answerer]

He's not really 'TO' either. In fact, he's not really a Character Build at all, so much as a treatise on how the GM can legitimately counter such tactics as Scry n Die that a PO Batman Wizard is likely to employ.
Oh, I never meant to imply otherwise. This list has PO as well as TO. I see this as a very good example of PO: optimization to achieve a specific, limited goal.

[rockdeworld]

This is basically my idea for "tiers." PEACH.

Tier 0: Capable of doing things that should not be possible (eg. infinite anything, killing gods). Cannot be challenged except by a build dedicated specifically to that task.

Pun-Pun, by Khan the Destroyer
The Omniscificer, by LordofProcrastination
The Wish & The Word, by Frank&K(?)
Monty, by psly4mne


Tier 1: Capable of doing absolutely everything, often better than builds that specialize in that thing. Often capable of solving encounters with a single mechanical ability and little thought from the player. Has world changing powers. These guys, if played well, can break a campaign and can be very hard to challenge without extreme DM fiat, especially if Tier 3s and below are in the party.

Cindy, by Emperor Tippy
Team Solars, by douglas
The Twice-Betrayer of Shar, by LordofProcrastination
Cheater of Mystra by Neonsamurai and Funny Slaughter


Tier 2: Has as much raw power as the Tier 1 builds, but can't pull off nearly as many tricks. Still potencially campaign smashers by using the right abilities, but at the same time are more predictable and can't always have the right tool for the job. If the Tier 1 builds are countries with 10,000 nuclear weapons in their arsenal, these guys are countries with 10 nukes. Still dangerous and world shattering, but not in quite so many ways. Note that the Tier 2 builds are often less flexible than Tier 3 classes... it's just that their incredible potential power overwhelms their lack in flexibility. Usually includes builds dedicated specifically to beating a certain Tier 0 or Tier 1 build.

All the 100^10 builds.
d2 Crusader, by BassetKing
Chuck E. Cheese, by skydragonknight
The Terminator, by Tleilaxu_Ghola


Tier 3: Capable of doing one thing quite well, while still being useful when that one thing is inappropriate, or capable of doing all things, but not as well as builds that specialize in that area. Occasionally has a mechanical ability that can solve an encounter, but this is relatively rare and easy to deal with. Challenging such a character takes some thought from the DM, but isn't too difficult.

Bardic Badass, by Janus Jones
Trixie, the Pixie Party Booster, by Carnivore
Supermount 2.0, by Dyllan


Tier 4: Capable of doing one thing quite well, but often useless when encounters require other areas of expertise, or capable of doing many things to a reasonable degree of competance without truly shining. Rarely has any abilities that can outright handle an encounter unless that encounter plays directly to the class's main strength. DMs may sometimes need to work to make sure Tier 4s can contribue to an encounter, as their abilities may sometimes leave them useless. Cannot compete effectively with Tier 1s that are played well.

Gatling Chain Gun Tripper, by Snow_Savant
Jack B. Quick, by Caelic
Takahashi no Onisan, by ShneekeyTheLost
Supermount, by Caelic


Tier 5: Builds that probably should not be in this thread, or joke builds.

The totally overpowered Basketweaver, by Zemyla(?)

[dextercorvia]

The reason is, the build is based off of using Earthglide to essentially hide from casters.


I'm pretty sure that we established that earthglide does not work the way you think it does, regarding your scuba tank analogy.

[gooddragon1]

you are missing Wedded to History and Skill Focus (Basketweaving)

I suppose all that strength would make you a pretty good jumplomancer...

[toapat]

I'm pretty sure that we established that earthglide does not work the way you think it does, regarding your scuba tank analogy.

no, you didnt, you just claimed without evidence that you automatically goto step 4 of drowning, despite the fact that it does not say which of the 5 steps of the drowning rules you begin at.

[dextercorvia]

no, you didnt, you just claimed without evidence that you automatically goto step 4 of drowning, despite the fact that it does not say which of the 5 steps of the drowning rules you begin at.

Edit: Redacted.

If toapat would like to present his build for peer review in another thread, I would be happy to make my comments their.

[Answerer]

This is so many kinds of off-topic. Toapat's link never belonged in this thread to begin with, since this thread is about "famous" builds and a build from last week is not that. Arguments about the validity of any build, and particularly a build that didn't belong here to begin with, really don't belong here.

Please don't drag this thread into that and get it locked.

[dextercorvia]

This is so many kinds of off-topic. Toapat's link never belonged in this thread to begin with, since this thread is about "famous" builds and a build from last week is not that. Arguments about the validity of any build, and particularly a build that didn't belong here to begin with, really don't belong here.

Please don't drag this thread into that and get it locked.

True on both counts. Edited accordingly.

[laeZ1]

When I first started playing D&D, I had decided that Bards were my favorite class, and so I looked online for some fun/good bard builds. One that caught my eye was the "Joker" build (mentioned above), but more importantly, it was made as an NPC to counter a wizard build called the "Batman" build. Does anybody have a link to that? Would it be appropriate for this thread?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Already mentioned, besides the creator (Schneekeythelost) has posted in this thread and there is a link in his sig.

[Answerer]

When I first started playing D&D, I had decided that Bards were my favorite class, and so I looked online for some fun/good bard builds. One that caught my eye was the "Joker" build (mentioned above), but more importantly, it was made as an NPC to counter a wizard build called the "Batman" build. Does anybody have a link to that? Would it be appropriate for this thread?
Batman isn't a build so much as a philosophy to playing Wizards. A frequently misunderstood philosophy.

[rockdeworld]

As much as I liked the idea of a tier system for builds (and may do that later), I think I will keep the TO/PO lists, because I thought of a simple way to differentiate them.

PO builds were made to be played.
TO builds were not.

With that in mind, I looked at the original author's intent when making the build, and readjusted some of the builds accordingly. The Javocian bomb and both supermount builds were clearly not meant to be played, and so I put them in the TO category, whereas the Killer Gnome was (I think), so I put it in the PO category. The Nasty Gentleman was iffy, but I ended up putting it in the PO category because I think Snow Savant meant for the build (except perhaps the Unnatural Gentleman) to be used. The Trouserfang dwarf is another iffy one, which I have left in the PO section.

Now, while I still wonder about the answer to my original question, this presents a new, and possibly more interesting one: if all the PO builds were put in a room together, which one would come out on top? Would anyone be interested in a tournament or Battle Royale to put it to the test? Preferably a few people who know these builds' abilities better than I do.

[Darrin]

PO builds were made to be played.
TO builds were not.


I'm... not sure I agree. My criteria would be, "Does it break the game?", but nailing that down isn't exactly easy. I thought "Does it get an infinite number of something?" would also be a clear indicator of TO, but... well, take the chicken-infested builds. They get infinite chickens, so TO? But if you look at the relative power level, those two chicken-infested builds are actually quite playable. Master of Cluck-Fu does 1d6+1d8+5+Str damage with his chickens. That's pretty underpowered for a 20-level build. Or take the Chicken Chucker, which adds 6d6 fire damage on top of every thrown chicken... that's roughly on par with the Bardic Badass (marked as PO). Replace the chickens with shurikens or Gloves of Endless Javelins and those would be fairly normal builds.

Bubs and the Supermount I don't really think of as TO. They don't get infinite combos. The worst they do is they get a very big, powerful animal... although getting a Battletitan under your command at level 4 would probably break the game. Supermount seems more reasonable to me, but I'm curious... has anyone seen a Supermount in actual play?

Triple Cheeseburger I'd probably consider "playable", because well... if 9th level spells broke the game, then wouldn't all Tier 1 casters be TO?

The Cube should probably be TO, but that one was *actually played* (Test of Spite). However, since no one could figure out how to defeat it, that's probably a good indication it belongs in TO.

Trouserfang is playable... not really an infinite combo. That might belong in the same category as the Chicken-Infested stuff. Do we need a separate category for "This doesn't break the game, but if you want to play this, you are clearly trying to play a very *different* game from everyone else." Maybe a "Silly Optimization" category?

[Dusk Eclipse]

For me it isn't about the power of the build, I consider the difference between TO and PO being intent. If they are intended for actual play? PO, otherwise TO (yes this include silly optimization builds like the chicken infested commoner).

Normally the creators of such builds try to explain if they were just messing with the rules to see what happens or if they want to play such build in a game, while I acknowledge there are people who play at vastly different optimization levels and as such what is allowed varies a lot, knowing their intentions does help.

Obviously this doesn't work all the time, for example the Hood "archetype" started as a cohort for a game (thus a PO exercise); but as it evolved (adding more charge multipliers, other utility stuff)it became a TO exercise.

[rockdeworld]

The Cube should probably be TO, but that one was *actually played* (Test of Spite). However, since no one could figure out how to defeat it, that's probably a good indication it belongs in TO.

Trouserfang is playable... not really an infinite combo. That might belong in the same category as the Chicken-Infested stuff. Do we need a separate category for "This doesn't break the game, but if you want to play this, you are clearly trying to play a very *different* game from everyone else." Maybe a "Silly Optimization" category?
Lol, maybe so. As for the Cube, I think you're probably right.

Given the vagueness of the Cube, I'd leave that out of the test, unless someone wants to build another Cube.

On a side note: I found a post for a Level 1 Warforged Commoner with Chicken Infested and another flaw, Martial Study, Martial Stance, and Blood in the Water that was able to deal infinite damage. Then I replaced that link with Tom Cluck Awesome, and I can't find it again. Can anyone help?

[Darrin]

On a side note: I found a post for a Level 1 Warforged Commoner with Chicken Infested and another flaw, Martial Study, Martial Stance, and Blood in the Water that was able to deal infinite damage. Then I replaced that link with Tom Cluck Awesome, and I can't find it again. Can anyone help?

Sleeping Raven Infinite Blood Frenzy (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241913)?

I found another combo, a variation on the "bag of rats" trick from ShneekeyTheLost, maybe call it Bag of Chickens (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5734937&postcount=11).

[rockdeworld]

Sleeping Raven Infinite Blood Frenzy (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241913)?
Yes, thank you.

[Darrin]

If Cindy is "PO" then the Mailman should be "PO".

The Mailman's brother, The UPS Man (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208620) by ShneekeyTheLost, might also be worth mentioning.

Ok, I have found:

Tauric Ubercharger (http://web.archive.org/web/20061112212337/http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=563009) by swanyusd

The UberERcharger (http://web.archive.org/web/20080214233419/http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=401662) by Tempest Stormwind.

I can't find Djinn_in_Tonic/Gideon_Gideonson's "Outcharging the UberERCharger", although he mentions a few details about it here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219926).

Another trick that still gets mentioned somewhat frequently, although Doc Roc kinda trumped it with his magic jar within a jar trick (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200516):

The Psionic Sandwich (http://web.archive.org/web/20080213115747/http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=8570529) by Tleilaxu Ghola.

[rockdeworld]

If Cindy is "PO" then the Mailman should be "PO".
You're right about the mailman - it was intended for play. I've switched it.

The UPS Man and Magic Jar trick don't have builds yet(even though the UPS Man is a good guide, and the Magic Jar trick is really cool), so I can't add them atm.

The Psionic Sandwich is hilarious. I've added it with the two uberchargers.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

You're right about the mailman - it was intended for play. I've switched it.

The UPS Man and Magic Jar trick don't have builds yet(even though the UPS Man is a good guide, and the Magic Jar trick is really cool), so I can't add them atm.

The Psionic Sandwich is hilarious. I've added it with the two uberchargers.

Eh, the UPS Man build looks almost identical to the Mailman build, since they use so many of the same tricks. Just switch Empower and Maximize with Fell Frighten and Fell Drain, and replace Enlarge Spell with Searing Spell. Replace Ocular Spell with Blistering Spell.

Include the spells indicated in the OP. Done.

It was more of a variant than an actual independent build, using Greater Arcane Fusion to squeeze out a bunch of 1st level spells that automatically dealt 1-2 damage (depending on supposed immunities) and a negative level. Basically, enervation spam. Oh, and it was also spamming fear effects from Fell Frighten, which stack, and it would quickly make an opponent Cowering, so even if he didn't go down, he will the following round.

[dextercorvia]

Didn't the UPS Man also have 4 levels of Dread Witch to make the fear stacking more effective?

[Answerer]

Team Solar was an actual game that got played so I don't think you can call that TO.

[rockdeworld]

Team Solar was an actual game that got played so I don't think you can call that TO.
My mistake then, switching it.

[Draz74]

Team Solar was an actual game that got played so I don't think you can call that TO.

But that "actual game" was The Grinder ... which might have been explicitly advertised as a campaign for using TO in. I don't know for sure; I wasn't following it at the time.

[Darrin]

But that "actual game" was The Grinder ... which might have been explicitly advertised as a campaign for using TO in. I don't know for sure; I wasn't following it at the time.

Likewise, while the Cube was actually played, it was played in the Test of Spite, which I think was designed to test PO to the breaking point. The fact that the Cube was undefeated is probably a good sign it broke into TO territory.

Unrelated note: Should we add a section for "Missing In Action" builds for:

Neo-Terminator
Ghola Character
Outcharging the UberERCharger

[Venusaur]

The Arseplomancer, which is like a more deadly version of the jumplomancer. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2287.msg72007#msg72007)

Also, Tainted Scholar should probably be mentioned, as it is a famous way of easily breaking the game into teeny-tiny pieces.

[Kelb_Panthera]

The Arseplomancer, which is like a more deadly version of the jumplomancer. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2287.msg72007#msg72007)

Also, Tainted Scholar should probably be mentioned, as it is a famous way of easily breaking the game into teeny-tiny pieces.

Tainted scholar (and its previous iterations; tainted sorcerer and maho tsukai) isn't a build, it's just an extremely unbalanced PrC.

[Venusaur]

Tainted scholar (and its previous iterations; tainted sorcerer and maho tsukai) isn't a build, it's just an extremely unbalanced PrC.

Well, the necropolitan taint stacking is a build, and pretty famous at that.

Also, Mango Eldar's Clone Army (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246489) is worth adding to the list.

[Rastakir]

Hi all, i'm starting a new epic adventure D&D 3.5e and I would know between all "theorical build" explained, exluding Pun Pun, according to you what is the best PO build.

Thx all for help ^__^

(I have read very well on The Cheater of Mystra) but i want know, according to you, if is there in "Theorical Builds" a more PO it ^^

Rastakir

[TuggyNE]

Hi all, i'm starting a new epic adventure D&D 3.5e and I would know between all "theorical build" explained, exluding Pun Pun, according to you what is the best PO build.

Thx all for help ^__^

(I have read very well on The Cheater of Mystra) but i want know, according to you, if is there in "Theorical Builds" a more PO it ^^

Rastakir

You should open a new thread for this, rather than necro'ing, but the short answer is that no TO builds are at all suitable for practical games, by definition.

[Endarire]

Hood (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2462.0)! (Download (http://antioch.snow-fall.com/files/members/Endarire/DnD/Little%20Red%20Raiding%20Hood%202.3.zip))

More of an archetype than a build, but the post contains many builds.

[nedz]

That would be the old thread necromancer build.

[Darrin]

Well, while it's active, I'm going to post some additional finds:

The Original "Ted the Enabler" by Yekoj:

https://web.archive.org/web/20090708052159/http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-175652

Resurrecting Ted the Enabler by Endarire:

https://web.archive.org/web/20090708052909/http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-545459

PRESIDENT of Smack by Radical Taoist:

https://web.archive.org/web/20090708054529/http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-519517

Tashalatora God of Smack by WyvernSlayer:

https://web.archive.org/web/20090708054529/http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-883674

The Boogeyman by Caelic:

https://web.archive.org/web/20090708051002/http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-313633

'Trip Monk-ey' of DOOM by catharz:

https://web.archive.org/web/20080208082025/http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-316793

[mostholycerebus]

Thread necro typically doesnt apply to informational compilation threads. The whole point of these threads is to be a resource that is continually updated.

[rockdeworld]

Hood (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2462.0)! (Download (http://antioch.snow-fall.com/files/members/Endarire/DnD/Little%20Red%20Raiding%20Hood%202.3.zip))

More of an archetype than a build, but the post contains many builds.
Thanks Endarire. I don't think I can add that to the list just yet, because a sortof informal criteria I have for "famous" is that someone other than the OP posts it here.

That said, if an OP posts their build here and someone else seconds it, I'm willing to add it to the list.

[ComaVision]

The link for The Terminator goes to The Omnisificer.

[Rubik]

Tiny von BigMcLargeHuge (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6428.0) is doable if you take Human Heritage at 1st level.

And that conversation between JaronK and Lycanthromancer eventually led to this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?285801-Tippy-s-Terrifically-Terrible-Trial&p=15474863#post15474863). Don't have a name for it, though. The Elder Evil Eliminator, maybe?

[rockdeworld]

The link for The Terminator goes to The Omnisificer.
Fixed, thanks.

Also added Tiny, thanks. Same logic as above applies to the EEE.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Tleilaxu Ghola was such a boss. The save game mechanic is one of the most excellent and elegant things I've seen done with this game.

[VisitingDaGulag]

I like this thread!

If no hood then we dodged TML's ghost telekenesis builds. Phew.

I looked around here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?board=28.0) and found these (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8770.0):
Triple 9's (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8770.msg140055#msg140055) (wizard, cleric, psion) by PlzBreakMyCampaign
Max Rebuke HD (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8770.msg140056#msg140056) by PlzBreakMyCampaign
Max Sneak Attack (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8770.msg140057#msg140057) by PlzBreakMyCampaign
Max Eldritch Blast (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8770.msg140058#msg140058) by PlzBreakMyCampaign
Max HP (I don't like this one) (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8770.msg140059#msg140059) by PlzBreakMyCampaign
Max Skirmish (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8770.msg140060#msg140060) by PlzBreakMyCampaign
Charger Overkill (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8770.msg140061#msg140061) (8 to 70 million damage?) by PlzBreakMyCampaign
Max DMM Pools (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8770.msg140062#msg140062) by PlzBreakMyCampaign
Non-Epic Demilich (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8770.msg140063#msg140063) by PlzBreakMyCampaign
A Vampire PC that Doesn't Suck (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8770.msg140064#msg140064) by PlzBreakMyCampaign (lol)
The Ultimate Bear Build (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8770.msg140065#msg140065) by PlzBreakMyCampaign (One last build to kill them all?)

Matrix Monk (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=11530.msg195532#msg195532) by Soro_Lost

Searches for "Stuff" and "Junk" and "builds" turned up:

UltraShifter (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=94) by Prime32 (TO)
The Mindslayer (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8592) by Prime32 (kill anything without wis-damage immunity and dream elementals)

Death from Above (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2813.0) by Maat Mons and sirpercival's Grapplemancer at the same link

Can anyone find "The Anthropologist"? It was by Carnivore or maybe JaronK, I forgot. It used soothing voice and diplomancy to run around winning D&D by not fighting. The whole point was to ask questions. Hilarious

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

I want to throw Hi Welcome by Sunic_Flames (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=uogosabv8t5fkjvbg5dt9bics5&topic=9724.0;wap2) out there. He was a ****, but it's also a powerful Druid build that doesn't take Natural Spell at 6 and became a meme.

[rockdeworld]

Thanks. Added the builds except for UltraShifter, because it doesn't actually work according to the posters in that thread.

[ComaVision]

The link for The Terminator goes to The Omnisificer.


Fixed, thanks.

Also added Tiny, thanks. Same logic as above applies to the EEE.

The Jumplomancer link also goes to The Omnisificer.

[rockdeworld]

The Jumplomancer link also goes to The Omnisificer.
Thanks. It seems the links somehow got changed, and The Omnisificer saw it coming. I've updated the links accordingly.

[3.5dmgisbible]

My favorite core OP build is an elven fighter rogue with the feats: improved two weapon fighting, improved trip, and combat reflexes. Throw in some spherical ioun stones, and you've got a pretty stupidly over powered character. My circle has actually banned the combination of improved trip and combat reflexes.
Here's a glipse at what you could do with this feat combo.
A Dex of 24 allows you to attack 7 times [I]without two weapon fighting.[I] Since sneak attack is defined as coming into effect when the opponent is deprived of his Dex bonus, all damage is calculated as sneak attack damage.

[3.5dmgisbible]

My favorite core OP build is an elven fighter rogue with the feats: improved two weapon fighting, improved trip, and combat reflexes. Throw in some spherical ioun stones, and you've got a pretty stupidly over powered character. My circle has actually banned the combination of improved trip and combat reflexes.
Here's a glipse at what you could do with this feat combo.
A Dex of 24 allows you to attack 7 times [I]without two weapon fighting.[I] Since sneak attack is defined as coming into effect when the opponent is deprived of his Dex bonus, all damage is calculated as sneak attack damage.

[rockdeworld]

Thank you for contributing 3.5dmgisbible, but that's really not a famous optimized character build. The informal definition I use for a famous build is that someone other than the creator posts a link to it. It also doesn't work quite as well as you're thinking, because sneak attack has no interaction with tripping (prone enemies aren't denied their Dex bonus). If you're interested in an example of an optimized character built to take advantage of attacks of opportunity, check out Jack B. Quick (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=17031211&postcount=30), by Caelic. I'd be happy to discuss more, but in another thread, not this one.

[KellKheraptis]

Can I nominate my Twice-Betrayer Slayer?

http://community.wizards.com/comment/33869816#comment-33869816

[rockdeworld]

You can nominate it, but I usually wouldn't consider it famous. The informal definition I use for a famous build is that someone other than the creator posts a link to it. However, if some people second it, I'd be happy to add it.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

My final optimization trick build never really got finished, but used a combination of Warblade, Great Cleave, and an interesting interpretation of how you can consider thrown attacks both melee and ranged from Bloodstorm Blade to get an arbitrary number of attacks. Then he used a +1 Rock of Aptitude plus feats like Boomerang Riccochet and Spinning Kick to generate something like 2.5 attacks per attack, using an exploding dice event to generate a Near Arbitrary number of attacks per round. Then I used Dragonwrought Kobold cheese to stack on Distant Shot epic feat to have an arbitrary range.

The little kobold stands upon the white walls of Gondor, beholding the entire army of Orks, Uruk-Hai, Oliphants, siege weapons, and bodies in a numberless mass. With a single flick of his wrist, he launches a humble throwing rock. Six seconds later, the entire army is dead.

Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies. Sort of the melee version of the Mailman.

Never did get around to finishing it, though. I suppose if anyone wants to flesh it out, they can.

[ross]

needs more Death Machine

[nedz]

needs less Thread Necromancer