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Snowfire
2013-02-15, 08:54 AM
And now this is the something else I've been talking about. You may have, in passing, heard of the new Pazio Mythic Path system. I read up on it a few months back and, I'll admit, fell in love with how adaptable the system is to any real play level and...just the easy simplicity of it. So this a result of that really - and the fact that both of the ToR base games I'm running are going to hit Mythic at the end of their first campaign arc.


Avatars of Light

Evokers are special. This is known all across the universe; even by those that would see them cast into the dust. The wielders of light are precious gifts to those whose purposes align with them. Powerful warriors, many faced tricksters or confidants and wise sages. Within each an endless, inescapable power that touches a primal awe within all who see it, even as it can terrify those who would fight against it, evokers are the nameless fear that comes for those of darkness – and yes, sometimes light. A power that can change the face of worlds or realities, in the same way as it can effortlessly turn those who fight against it to its wielder’s cause.

But then there are those evokers who are not so much channels of the Light as they are of Light. Evokers who go beyond the perceived boundaries of what is possible. These evokers have a Destiny, almost regardless of their wishes. For as the Light aids them, so it also drives them. Power such as this is not one that can be abandoned. And that, perhaps, is part of the reason for which Avatars are so few. It takes something very special to make that step. But whilst they may be few, their power shines forth brighter than the heavens. And all the hosts of angels may find themselves dim in comparison.

The Avatar


TierPath FeaturesMythic Illuminations
1stAvatar’s Light, Bonus hit points, Path ability
-
2ndPath ability
-
3rdPath ability
1
4thPath ability
1
5thPath ability
1
6thPath ability
2
7thPath ability
2
8thPath ability
2
9thPath ability
3
10thEternal Avatar, Path ability
3


Avatar Features

As they increase in tier, Avatars gain the following abilities.

Mythic Illuminations: At 3rd tier, you may select a single Illumination from your Illuminations Known. All Component effects of the Illumination become Mythic and you may expend Mythic Power equal to your Mythic rank when evoking it to enhance its effects. At 6th and 9th tier, you may select another Mythic Illumination.

Avatar’s Light: Select one of the following abilities at 1st tier. Once chosen, it can’t be changed.

Dawn’s Light (Su): As a free action, you may expend a single use of Mythic Power to instantly restore all of your cartridges. In addition, you add your Mythic Rank to your Champion level for the purposes of Enhanced Armaments and all Costume effects.

Shining Moon (Su): You may expend a single use of Mythic Power as a free action to switch Personas. You also add your Mythic Rank to your Empath Level for the purposes of what Aspects you may choose from in crafting a Persona.

Light of the Stars (Su): You may expend a single use of Mythic Power as a free action to instantly refill your Luminous Reservoir. In addition, add your Mythic Rank to your Stargazer level for the purposes of the Complex Formula class feature.

Bonus Hit Points: Whenever you gain an Avatar tier, you gain 4 bonus hit points. These hit points stack with themselves, and do not affect your overall Hit Dice or other statistics.

Path Ability: At 1st tier, and every tier thereafter, select one new path ability from the following list or from the list of universal path abilities (see Mythic Adventures, p. 20). Once you select an ability, it can’t be changed. Unless otherwise noted, each ability can be selected only once. You must meet the minimum Avatar tier requirement before selecting an ability.

Blessed of Light (Su): Whenever you encounter a creature whose attitude is at least indifferent, treat its attitude as one step higher. If the creature’s starting attitude is helpful, you can make requests of the creature with a +5 bonus on your Diplomacy skill check.

Channel Power (Su): You gain the ability to channel raw power into an Illumination you evoke. Using this ability requires you to expend one use of mythic power while evoking an Illumination. Any damage dealt by the Illumination is increased by 50%. In addition, if the Illumination has a duration greater than 1 round, the duration is doubled. Any saves required by the Illumination are made at a –4 penalty, although mythic creatures reduce this penalty to –2. This Illumination ignores any spell resistance the targets have, and any damage it deals bypasses the targets’ energy resistances or energy immunities. You must be at least 8th tier before selecting this ability.

Endless Light (Su): You increase your Evoker Level by two, even if that means increasing your EL above your HD. You must be at least 7th tier before selecting this ability

Enduring Illuminations (Ex): You can extend the duration of any Barrier or Surge by evoking the same Illumination on the existing target, adding the second duration to any duration that remains on the first evoking. This does not otherwise alter any variable effects of the original evoking. If the Illumination allows a saving throw, the target can make a saving throw to avoid extending the effect.

Friendship is Light (Su): Divide the amount of time required to use Power of Friendship by your tier. In addition, you may expend one use of mythic power to effect a number of targets up to [Mythic ability score modifier x Avatar tier] with Power of Friendship in a single ‘use’ of the ability. You must be 5th tier or higher before selecting this ability.

Itemcraft (Ex): You are skilled at getting the most out of magic items. You add 1/2 your Avatar tier (minimum 1) to the caster level of potions, scrolls, staves, and wands you use when determining the effects of the spells created by them. When using a staff, wand, or other charged item, you can expend one use of mythic power in place of one charge.

Light Shines Eternal (Ex): When below 0 hit points you don’t fall unconscious and don’t take damage from acting normally. You do not die until your total number of negative hit points is equal to or greater than three times your Constitution score.

Mythic Costume (Ex): You gain a Mythic Costume Element for each three Avatar Tiers you possess (minimum 1). Mythic Elements may be freely changed whenever an evoker changes their Costume Elements.

Mythic Evoker (Ex): You may calculate the basic number of Mythic Illuminations you have access to as if they were Mythic Magic and you were an Archmage or Hierophant. You must be 3rd tier or higher before selecting this ability.

Servant of Light (Su): You do not take any additional damage from a critical hit, but any other effects that trigger on a critical hit still affect you normally. In addition, you always fail any check made to confirm a critical hit. You must be at least 6th tier or higher before you can select this ability.

Sustained by Light (Su): If you spend at least 1 hour of prayer or meditation you require no food, water, or sleep for 24 hours. This time can be the same time you use to prepare spells. You must still rest 8 hours to regain spells but you are not subject to fatigue or exhaustion due to a lack of sleep. Additionally, once per day you may expend one use of mythic power as a full-round action to refresh yourself as if you had rested for 8 hours for the purposes of regaining spells and healing heal hit point and ability damage.

Eternal Avatar: At 10th tier, whenever you evoke an Illumination that targets one or more non-mythic creatures, they must roll any saves associated with the Illumination twice and take the worse result. You gain DR 10/Epic. In addition, you become immune to damage caused by your own Illuminations, or that of Illuminations evoked by non-Mythic Evokers. Finally, whenever you knock a foe of equal or higher HD unconscious, you may regain a use of mythic power. You may not gain more uses of mythic power than your maximum with this ability.

Mythic Illuminations

As magic is enhanced and strengthened by the inherent connection to a grand destiny that makes a Mythic character what they are, so too does the Light shine stronger in those Champions, Empaths and Stargazers who are marked for something…more. The simplest, and most well-known, effect of this strength is shown in the Light they wield against their foes.

Blasts

Foundation Components:

Clinging: Powerful evokers can make their blasts linger, but when such skilful power is amplified by Mythic ability, they become much harder to avoid and resist. When evoking a Mythic blast with the Clinging component, the evoker adds her Mythic Rank to the Blast’s total damage and the Fortitude save DC vs the damage over time effect of the component.

Power: Power is a very simple foundation, and the effects of Mythic power on it are just as simple. When evoking a Mythic Blast with the Power component, the evoker adds her Mythic Rank to each damage dice.

Tremors: With the application of Mythic power, the pure force of Tremors is amplified to bone-breaking levels, capable of launching opponents across considerable distances and reducing their ability to rise again. When evoking a Mythic Blast with the Tremors component the evoker adds her Mythic Rank to the number of motes spent on the Blast for purposes of Tremor’s knockback effect. In addition, any affected by such a Blast must make a Fortitude save or be stunned for a round.

Shape Components:

Assault: Mythic characters hit far stronger, and much more accurately, than their counterparts and this is reflected in all shape components. But perhaps not as spectacularly as with the Assault component. When evoking a Mythic Blast with the Assault component, an Evoker may spend two uses of Mythic power to extend the effects of the Blast to all of their attacks for that round.

Beam/Explosion/Storms/Eruption: All these shapes share a common theme, changing the area over which a blast is spread in exchange for a chance for those inside that area to avoid some of it. Mythic characters cannot prevent those inside such effects from dodging, but they can make it far harder. By spending one use of Mythic Power, an Evoker may increase the number of effective ranks in the Shape component of the blast by up to half her Mythic Rank (minimum 1). In addition, the Reflex save DC alone increases by the Evoker’s Mythic Rank.

Cascade: Cascade is an archetypal shape, little changed by the application of Mythic power – except in regards to improved control. Whereas most shapes are amplified in terms of area, the Cascade shape becomes a lethal hail that belies its pinpoint accuracy. By spending a single use of Mythic Power, an evoker may increase the number of targets they may select by their Mythic Rank.

Chains: A powerful, and reasonably rare, shape, the rippling blasts created by the Chains shape is perhaps the second most spectacularly modified shape where Mythic Blasts are involved. By spending one use of Mythic Power, an evoker may add effective ranks to this component of the blast equal to half her Mythic Rank (minimum 1).

Secondary Components:

Horizons: Horizons is a powerful blast effect on its own, allowing a wielder of the Light to reach enemies far further away then she normally should. And yet in the hands of a Mythic character, it is capable of almost reaching its namesake. An evoker evoking a Mythic Blast with the Horizons component may spend a use of Mythic Power to dramatically amplify the range of her blasts to almost beyond sight. Instead of following normal doubling rules, the range mathematically doubles with each rank - quadrupling for the second doubling, and multiplying by eight for the third.

Dissonance: Alone amongst all Blast components, Dissonance is the only one which can be invariably identified as bordering on true evil, sapping at its target’s lifeforce and tugging at both soul and mind with its sickly effects. When enhanced by Mythic Power, these effects reach beyond simple tugs – becoming active anchors that weigh heavily an Evoker’s targets. When evoking a Mythic Blast with this component, an Evoker may spend a use of Mythic Power to inflict a single negative level on all targets damaged by the Blast. Those affected may make a Fortitude save vs Illumination DC to negate the effect. If they fail, the negative levels fades after (Evoker Level) hours.

Sundering: The Sundering effect is quite probably the most commonly used secondary component in the arsenal of a Magical Girl who works as part of a team – allowing her to highlight chinks and gaps in even the best armours. On its own, this effect outlines those parts of a foe’s armour. But with the application of Mythic Power it seeps deeply into crack and fracture, setting them ablaze with Light. When evoking a Mythic Blast with the Sundering component, an Evoker may spend a use of Mythic Power to amplify the effect, extending the penalty to AC alone to 1 + [Evoker’s Mythic Rank] rounds.

In addition to the above effects, a powerful enough evoker may enhance their Blasts further with a blazing Light that tears through their opponent’s protections. An evoker of Mythic Rank 6 or higher may spend two uses of Mythic Power to make their Device bypass all damage reduction other than Mythic for the purposes of the Assault component, and their Blasts ignore hardness, all resistances and treat all immunities as Resistance 20.

Barriers

Foundation Components:

Barricades: The archetypal ‘wall of light’, the cohesion and internal strength of this effect is greatly strengthened by the innate power of a Mythic evoker. When evoked as the Foundation effect of a Mythic Barrier, the Barricades effect become impassable without the use of a full round action strength check. The DC of the Strength check also increases by the evoker’s Mythic Rank.

Shadows: Rippling patterns, illusions, darkness, all that which conceals. These are the manifestations of the Shadows component, each one capable of obscuring the sight of those who would wish to harm a wielder of Light. When evoked as the Foundation effect of a Mythic Barrier, the Shadow’s effect intensifies massively, granting the Barrier a base effect far stronger than one would expect. The base miss chance of the Barrier is increased by 5% for every 2 Mythic Ranks the evoker has attained (minimum 5%).

Shelter: Shelter is the other archetypal barrier type utilised by Wielders of Light, forming shimmering domes and walls of light that can stop attacks short and provide protection to those within from wide area effect spells. As the Foundation of a Mythic Barrier, the effective number of motes for the purposes of the Shelter effect increases by twice the Evoker’s Mythic Rank.

Tempests: Normally snow and rain – but sometimes taking far more esoteric appearances – the Tempest Foundation does not become stronger in the same manner of other effects when evoked as part of a Mythic Barrier. The amount of material falling and coating the ground does not increase. The effect of such however…changes. When evoked as the Foundation of a Mythic Barrier, an evoker imbues the falling material with a strange, quasi-sentient awareness. The penalty to Spot and Search checks increases by the evoker’s Mythic Rank. In addition, at the 10m level and higher, the Reflex save vs falling prone becomes a save against entanglement – with a bonus to the DC equal to the evoker’s Mythic Rank.

Shape Components:

Unlike Blasts and Surges, where the amplification effects between Shapes have at least some differences, the Mythic Power enhancement effect to all Barrier shapes is very simple – and universal. By expending a use of Mythic Power when evoking a Mythic Barrier, an Evoker may add up to half her Mythic Rank in additional ranks to the Shape Component.

Secondary Components:

Pilgrimage: The Pilgrimage effect is boosted by Mythic power in exactly the same way as the Horizon’s component, mathematically doubling the range of the Barrier in exchange for a single use of Mythic Power.

Radiance: Light in the darkness. Such is one of the most commonly used terms to describe evokers. The Radiance component personifies this effect, but when paired with Mythic Power, simple light becomes a beacon of blinding power. When evoking a Mythic Barrier with the Radiance component, the evoker may spend a single use of Mythic Power to add effective ranks in the Radiance component to the Barrier for purposes of dispelling darkness spells and effects. In addition, the Evoker may choose to sear the vision of all around her with the radiant fury of Light. This counts as a Blindness/Deafness spell that affects all those within the area of bright light spread by the barrier. The effect lasts for rounds equal to half the evoker’s Mythic Rank.

A Mythic character of Mythic Rank 5 or higher may spend an additional use of Mythic Power to direct this searing power so that it targets only those hostile to her.

Ancients: Tapping into the eternal flow of light is a simple, if not perhaps easy thing to do. But when an evoker pours Mythic ability into tying their powers to that timeless river of power, she finds it far easier to attain a meaningful connection. She may spend a use of Mythic Power to add effective ranks in the Ancients component equal to half her Mythic Rank.

Breath: Breeze and wind, there is no greater force of nature in all the world to many. The Breath component gifts an Evoker with the power to control these winds – and Mythic Power grants her such dexterity with that control that she can rival the greatest of magician’s power over such things. When evoking a Mythic Barrier with the Breath component, an evoker may spend a use of Mythic Power to add half her Mythic Rank (minimum 1) to the number of ranks in the Breath component of the Barrier.

Surges

Foundation Components:

Battles: Nothing travels faster than light itself. This is well known, the benchmark in fact against which all measure speed. Normal Magical Girls tap into this speed with this surge, but a Mythic one can almost become it. A Mythic Surge with the Battles Foundation grants a true Haste effect, with additional attacks granted as written for each 7m of cost.

Courage: Strength together, in shared bravery and defiance against darkness. The Courage Foundation is the underlying feeling of that strength, made manifest by light. And where the light of others shines, it blazes with an unmistakeable power when wielded by a Mythic character. When such evokes a Mythic Surge with the Courage Foundation, she adds her Mythic Rank to the granted Radiant bonus to AC.

Denunciations: Anger is very different from hatred. But even anger is a rare thing for many evokers to show in combat. But when they do, the world trembles at the power that such emotion sets lose upon it. When a Denunciations Foundation Mythic Surge is evoked, the penalty to all saving throws inflicted by the Surge is increased by half the evoker’s Mythic Rank (minimum 1).

Diamonds: Normally a candle flame that stands firm against even a hurricane blast, the Diamonds Foundation solidifies into a film of unbreakable light when evoked by one with Mythic Rank. This takes the effect of increasing the damage reduction granted by the Barrier by the Evoker’s Mythic Rank.

Justice: A power that protects the innocent and punishes the aggressors, Mythic Justice strikes all the harder than its normal counterpart. When evoking a Mythic Surge with the Justice Foundation, an evoker adds her Mythic Rank to the effective number of motes spent on the Illumination for purposes of this effect alone.

Might: Fortifying and enhancing natural potential is the province the Might Surge effect – but when a Mythic character evokes such an effect they do not so much enhance their own potential as replace that potential with Light itself. When evoking a Mythic Surge with the Might Foundation, an evoker adds her Mythic Rank to the effective number of motes spent on the Illumination for purposes of this effect alone.

Mockery: A single misstep can bring down an empire. A single word, ill spoken, can shatter the very stars around you. And few know this simple power better than the wielders of Light. And as they know how not to utter such words or make similar missteps, evokers can manipulate their power in such a way that it causes others to make those mistakes. And with Mythic power behind them, their foes rarely make a mistake only once. When evoking a Mythic Surge with the Mockery Foundation, an evoker adds her Mythic Rank to the Will save DC for the effect, and half her Mythic Rank (minimum 1) to the number of actions for which the penalty applies.

Resolve: Life grows from light. Anyone who has seen plants grow knows that they stretch towards the sun. And in this they are not alone. All grow towards the Light, trying to find a way to reach that most lofty of goals. That Light can restore life as easily as it creates it. And where such power meets the strength of those touched by Mythic Power, the light restores more than broken bones – it can restore magically inflicted weakness. When evoking a Mythic Surge with the Resolve Foundation, an evoker may remove ability damage, burn or drain equal to her Mythic Rank.

Sanctity: As a shield against the unwholesome and simply wrong in the world, there are few greater shields than the Light channelled by evokers. When evoking a Mythic Surge with the Sanctity Foundation, an evoker may add half her Mythic rank to the bonus to all saving throws.

Shape Components:

Bolts: Arcing ribbons of light that bring aid to allies – and doom to enemies - the Bolts component launches the effects of Surges across distances to specific targets with pinpoint accuracy. When a Mythic character’s own ability is added to the mix, the level of targeting proficiency greatly increases. By spending a use of Mythic Power when evoking a Mythic Surge with this Shape component, an evoker may target additional targets up to her Mythic Rank.

Pulses: Waves of light that fill the air with power, spreading the power of their surges out around them in ripple-patterns of radiant power. The Mythic extension of this Shape is very similar to many other Shape extensions. By expending a use of Mythic Power when evoking a Mythic Barrier, an Evoker may add up to half her Mythic Rank in additional ranks to the Pulses Component

Secondary Components:

Amplitude: The Amplitude component increases in exactly the same manner as the two similar to it – Horizons and Pilgrimage – by mathematically doubling when a use of Mythic Power is expended on this effect in a Mythic Surge.

Purity: True healing may be beyond the power of most evokers. However, to a Mythic evoker, such restrictions are simply guidelines that they can choose to ignore. By spending a use of Mythic Power on this component of a Mythic Surge, an evoker may freely add ranks in this component equal to her Mythic Rank.

An evoker of Mythic Rank four or higher may spend an additional two uses of Mythic Power to fully remove the effects chosen to be suppressed by the evoker.

Awe/Emptiness/Promises/Heartbreak: For all the knowledge and power in the world, the simple purity of Light can – rightly used – bring anyone to their knees. To one with Mythic ability behind them, such power is simply effortless. When evoking a Mythic Surge with any of the listed components, an evoker may spend a use of Mythic Power to add her Mythic Rank to the DC of the Will save vs the component’s effects.

Burdens: Any evoker can blaze so brightly that the regrets of the mind chain the body and soul. Mythic ones however burn so bright that those under their light find themselves frozen in place with their revealed fears. By spending a use of Mythic Power on this component of a Mythic Surge, the evoker amplifies this component such that it forces the target(s) to make a reflex save vs pinning.

Echoes: Even in the deepest darkness, shards of lost light remain. When a candle is snuffed out, the embers continue to burn. Evokers can mimic this echoing survival, and Mythic ones simply allow them to tap further into the power of that stubborn refusal to fade away. An evoker may spend a use of Mythic Power to add effective ranks in the Echoes component equal to half her Mythic Rank.

Mythic Imbuements

The garb and weapons of Magical Girls are formed of Light itself and amplified by the power of that very same. These effects are powerful in their own right, allowing evokers to call on many subtle – and not so subtle – manifestations of power that are greatly envied. And when Mythic strength is added to the mix, the light within these elements condenses, mixing with the fated strength of the evoker to form far stronger basic powers.

Device Imbuements:

Enhanced: When chosen as a Mythic Costume element, the Mythic evoker adds her Mythic Power die to the enhancement bonus granted by the element.

Protective: As a Mythic element, the bonuses granted by the Protective effect increase by the Mythic evokers Mythic Power dice step.

Temporal: For the purposes of the Temporal element, a Mythic evoker adds their Mythic Power die to their evoker level.

Resplendent: The bonus to the save DCs of all Illuminations increases by half the evoker’s Mythic Power dice step.

Resolved: The evoker adds her Mythic Power die to the amount of damage reduction and hardness bypassed by her attacks, and half that to the bonus on rolls to confirm critical hits.

Costume Imbuements:

Defiant: The evoker adds [5 x her Mythic Power die]% to the fortification effect granted by this element, and adds her Mythic Power dice step to the granted DR.

Nimble: The evoker’s Mythic dice step is added to the normally granted skill bonuses to Jump, Swim, Climb, Tumble and Balance checks.

Primal: When chosen as a Mythic effect, the energy resistance granted by this effect increases by [5x half the evoker’s Mythic Power dice step] and the bonus to damage for illuminations that deal the same energy type increases by half the evoker’s Mythic power dice step per die.

Subtle: The evoker adds her Mythic Power dice step to the skill bonuses to Hide and Move Silently.

Warded: The Mythic Power die of the evoker is added to the spell and power resistance granted by this effect.

Weightless: Increase fly Maneuverability by steps equal to one third the evoker's Mythic Power dice step, and add the same to the number of rounds that she may remain in flight before needing to land.

New Mythic Feats

Mythic Costume: Gain one Mythic Imbuement. You may not take this feat more than three times.

Mythic Illumination: Select one Illumination from your Illuminations Known. All Component effects of the Illumination become Mythic and you may expend Mythic Power equal to your Mythic rank when evoking it to enhance its effects.

Dragonus45
2013-02-15, 10:24 AM
\

For this, you are my hero. I love the mythic rules and its great to see a ToR level of mythic.

kestrel404
2013-02-16, 10:19 AM
Now that I've read up on Mythic Paths (thanks for bringing that to my notice - it's quite interesting), I'll say that the Avatar of Light is nicely done.

My only recommendations are that you need to add a section for Lesser Trials (just stealing a selection of existing trials should work nicely, though you may want to add a few of your own), and a few more Path abilities.

Here's an ability I've been wanting to see:
Meta-Illuminations (Ex): When choosing feats, the Avatar may choose any metamagic feat, treating their Evoker level as a caster level for qualification purposes. The Evoker may then use any metamagic feat they know with one of their illuminations with the following changes. When applying a metamagic feat to an illumination, evoking that illumination takes longer than normal (Surges become move actions, Barriers become standard, Blasts become full round). Any effect that is determined by spell level is instead determined by 1/2 evoker level (round up). And the illumination now requires additional motes equal to twice the spell level modifier. For example, a 5th level evoker with the Extend and Empower metamagic feats has a Surge illumination that costs 3 motes to use. They may choose to apply the Extend metamagic to this surge, and it costs them 5 motes to use (note that effects depending on the mote cost, use the base cost, not the modified mote cost). They cannot use the Empower metamagic feat on this surge, since it would cost 7 motes and they may only spend 5 motes to evoke it.

I've been wanting to find a place for that. It might be more appropriate as a new feat, though.

Snowfire
2013-02-16, 11:10 AM
Trials are mostly fine as is I think, although I may add one or two along Power of Friendship lines. As for more powers, I'll definitely add the one you've given - with a Mythic Power use - but I'm really not sure what to do for the others. Any ideas would be great.

And, although I know it's a big thing to ask, what do you think of the other PrCs I've posted so far? I'm rather curious.

kestrel404
2013-02-16, 11:16 AM
Trials are mostly fine as is I think, although I may add one or two along Power of Friendship lines. As for more powers, I'll definitely add the one you've given - with a Mythic Power use - but I'm really not sure what to do for the others. Any ideas would be great.

? Unless I'm reading it wrong, the Avatar only has access to the Universal trials (there are like 4 of them) right now. I was just suggesting that they get access to a few others.


And, although I know it's a big thing to ask, what do you think of the other PrCs I've posted so far? I'm rather curious.

I haven't read through the last few yet, I've been busy with other things (and distracted by reading the Mythic rules). I'll critique them when I get a chance.

Snowfire
2013-02-16, 12:01 PM
? Unless I'm reading it wrong, the Avatar only has access to the Universal trials (there are like 4 of them) right now. I was just suggesting that they get access to a few others.

Oh riiiight :smallredface:

And that seemed to have totally passed me by. I mean, the universals are pretty much just basic ideas - that DMs are meant to expand upon - but you make a very good point that I seem to have missed rather badly. I'll work some stuff up later on.


I haven't read through the last few yet, I've been busy with other things (and distracted by reading the Mythic rules). I'll critique them when I get a chance.

*smiles*

Absolutely no problem. Other things are important - as are, to a lesser degree, reading the Mythic rules as Silver and Crystal is going there at then end of first arc.

But when you get that chance, I'd appreciate it. I have some, but more feedback is almost always good.

Lix Lorn
2013-02-16, 04:53 PM
Hokay. I was gonna comment yesterday, but in-depth reviewing was beyond my tired sadness.

A lot of the things I'm intending to complain about are just personal dislikes, so you'll probably want to ignore pretty much half of it flat out. But I feel I should say it.

Child of Light
Really, really dislike alignment requirements. I guess this is justified, though... >_> Personally I'd like the option of playing someone evil wrapped in the trappings of light and good, or the descendent of someone pure who really, definitely isn't. Imagine what you could do with the tenth level Ancestral Seal shining out a Good alignment on a smiling, maxed-out-bluff murderess.
Also, I just realised there are no rules here for what happens if you stop being Good. Technically, you could start kicking puppies and drinking orphan's tears at level two with no problems. Intended..?

I'm really not fond of Heritage Bound. I could point out that Divine Grace is gained at second level, but if it REALLY bugs you as a balance thing, I'd suggest making it +evoker attribute modifier or your class level, whichever is lower, and note it's uncapped at ten.
(Incidentally, it's an Attribute, not a stat. But that's semantics.)

It feels kinda odd to have class feature costume effects that you then put motes into rather than spending the motes. That said, there's no reason not to do it like that, and it could interact with other effects in some way. I dunno. I was crotchety when I read it. DXD

Being fearless is way less cool than the Champion fear class feature. :smalltongue: I dunno quite what to suggest about that, just bugs me.

Do you need to pay the gold cost for raise dead?

How about the XP for Miracle?
Miracle makes me quite uncomfortable, even with all the chains on it there...

I do like the class though. :)

Light's Artist
Unbreakable is kinda similar to a costume element that already exists, which is odd. Atm, they don't stack either. :(

So the enemy is embraced, and that lasts until you stop being within 5ft? And if they fail the initial save, that's it?
You should probably specify what action it takes you use before you get it as iteratives. I presume standard.

The Charm effects should specify at will as a standard action. This is also very, very strong.

With Shining Path, what happens if your opponent is 50ft above you? You can't spend your action moving towards them.
Also, can you move through enemies? Solid objects?

Avatars
I don't know the mythic system, so I have very little to say. xD

Do mythic tiers happen INSTEAD of levelling up? if they don't, then there's a problem, since you choose a mythic illumination once, but rework your entire set every level.

Does Light Shines Eternal stack with Font of Life in any way?

Hope this is helpful. :)

Serafina
2013-02-16, 06:25 PM
Mythic is basically a set of levels that happen regardless of your class levels and in addition to them.
Think "Divine Rank, but actually balanced and with different classes for it".

So you could be a 10th-level Wizard, with all that implies, with a Mythic Rank of 4, gaining several features and some HP from it.

Snowfire
2013-02-16, 06:27 PM
Really, really dislike alignment requirements. I guess this is justified, though... >_> Personally I'd like the option of playing someone evil wrapped in the trappings of light and good, or the descendent of someone pure who really, definitely isn't. Imagine what you could do with the tenth level Ancestral Seal shining out a Good alignment on a smiling, maxed-out-bluff murderess.

Too bad, not going to happen. If you're like that, you're never going to be able to awaken the ancestral spark inside of you. I understand that you may not like this, but there is absolutely no way I'm changing it.


Also, I just realised there are no rules here for what happens if you stop being Good. Technically, you could start kicking puppies and drinking orphan's tears at level two with no problems. Intended..?

That is probably going to get fixed.


I'm really not fond of Heritage Bound. I could point out that Divine Grace is gained at second level, but if it REALLY bugs you as a balance thing, I'd suggest making it +evoker attribute modifier or your class level, whichever is lower, and note it's uncapped at ten.
(Incidentally, it's an Attribute, not a stat. But that's semantics.)

Yeah, no. This is mainly fluff, but also due to the fact that it isn't Divine Grace that I'm trying to lock here.


It feels kinda odd to have class feature costume effects that you then put motes into rather than spending the motes. That said, there's no reason not to do it like that, and it could interact with other effects in some way. I dunno. I was crotchety when I read it. DXD

Just pointing out here, free costume effects was something I took from Aerial Mage on the last page. Every PrC since then has incorporated the effect as it fits and is really flavourful. There's also the fact that you get free motes into these effects so that you can just leave them at class level motes for absolutely no cost.


Being fearless is way less cool than the Champion fear class feature. :smalltongue: I dunno quite what to suggest about that, just bugs me.

In all honesty, the fearless bit is just gravy. The meat of the class feature is the flat immunity to morale and profane penalties for you and all your allies within 30' of you.


Do you need to pay the gold cost for raise dead?

No. It's a spell like ability. They have, by SRD definition, no cost.


How about the XP for Miracle?
Miracle makes me quite uncomfortable, even with all the chains on it there...

No offence, I think you need to re-read miracle. XP cost is only for the really powerful effect. The spell-mimic and such effects costs nothing.

And in all honesty, Miracle 1/day at level 17 is not broken at all. That's the point where everyone is hitting 9th level spells. Giving a 1/day use via class feature (with far heavier restrictions than a cleric will ever likely have) is quite fair.


I do like the class though. :)

Thanks. Was a lot of fun to write - had a lot of help from a friend on the forum with some of the fluff and abilities to match.


Unbreakable is kinda similar to a costume element that already exists, which is odd. Atm, they don't stack either. :(

I assume you're referring to Defiant there. Defiant can't stack with this one as the DR is different and Unbreakable doesn't progress the fortification effect. In all honesty, Unbreakable is only slightly more powerful then what Defiant should be.


So the enemy is embraced, and that lasts until you stop being within 5ft? And if they fail the initial save, that's it?
You should probably specify what action it takes you use before you get it as iteratives. I presume standard.

It's a save or suck. However it is a save or suck that will only ever last two rounds at 1st level, progressing up at that rate. It also requires you to get right up in the opponent's face to do so when you first get it - although that gets relaxed a bit.

The distance issue is going to have to be addressed - thanks there - as once you get it at range they can keep you under so long as you're within range of them. And do note, it is stated to be a touch attack. Touch attacks, as attacks, are standard actions.


The Charm effects should specify at will as a standard action. This is also very, very strong.

Action will be clarified. And it really isn't. An at will 1st level spell at level 9? The skill bonuses are more important.


With Shining Path, what happens if your opponent is 50ft above you? You can't spend your action moving towards them.
Also, can you move through enemies? Solid objects?

Weightless or other effect. I may add something to the speed type gain to make you automatically gain speed types necessary to pursue your designated target. We'll see.

Yes and yes. You can walk through a Wall of Force with that effect active. Solid objects ain't gonna stop you.


I don't know the mythic system, so I have very little to say. xD

Do mythic tiers happen INSTEAD of leveling up? if they don't, then there's a problem, since you choose a mythic illumination once, but rework your entire set every level.

Does Light Shines Eternal stack with Font of Life in any way?

You gain Mythic Tiers by, in essence, doing badass things. Experience points or level has nothing to do with it. And Sera has answered better than I have here. Thanks!

No.

Lix Lorn
2013-02-16, 11:11 PM
Too bad, not going to happen. If you're like that, you're never going to be able to awaken the ancestral spark inside of you. I understand that you may not like this, but there is absolutely no way I'm changing it.

That is probably going to get fixed.
I despise alignment locks with every single atom of my body. >_>


Yeah, no. This is mainly fluff, but also due to the fact that it isn't Divine Grace that I'm trying to lock here.
There's nothing in there powerful enough to warrant it, and it's really an unpleasant mechanic. : /


Just pointing out here, free costume effects was something I took from Aerial Mage on the last page. Every PrC since then has incorporated the effect as it fits and is really flavourful. There's also the fact that you get free motes into these effects so that you can just leave them at class level motes for absolutely no cost.
I guess it makes more sense when it's a pre-existing costume effect. It just feels odd.


In all honesty, the fearless bit is just gravy. The meat of the class feature is the flat immunity to morale and profane penalties for you and all your allies within 30' of you.
It feels like a downgrade. The Meaning Of Courage is one of the single most evocative thing in the ToR.


No. It's a spell like ability. They have, by SRD definition, no cost.
I know. This is often waived.
It's probably fine.


No offence, I think you need to re-read miracle. XP cost is only for the really powerful effect. The spell-mimic and such effects costs nothing.
I did re-read it before asking. If you use it for a really powerful effect, do you pay the XP cost?


And in all honesty, Miracle 1/day at level 17 is not broken at all. That's the point where everyone is hitting 9th level spells. Giving a 1/day use via class feature (with far heavier restrictions than a cleric will ever likely have) is quite fair.
The argument that 'X gets (broken thing), so Y should!' is not really a great one. But, assuming the XP cost remains, it's probably fine due to the including ability for the DM to say nope.


I assume you're referring to Defiant there. Defiant can't stack with this one as the DR is different and Unbreakable doesn't progress the fortification effect. In all honesty, Unbreakable is only slightly more powerful then what Defiant should be.
It just feels odd to have two abilities that are so similar.


It's a save or suck. However it is a save or suck that will only ever last two rounds at 1st level, progressing up at that rate. It also requires you to get right up in the opponent's face to do so when you first get it - although that gets relaxed a bit.
...sorry, I entirely derped on it. I saw the duration was 'concentration' and missed the 'up to'. Prolly fine.


The distance issue is going to have to be addressed - thanks there - as once you get it at range they can keep you under so long as you're within range of them. And do note, it is stated to be a touch attack. Touch attacks, as attacks, are standard actions.
I know, I just prefer everything to be stated...


Action will be clarified. And it really isn't. An at will 1st level spell at level 9? The skill bonuses are more important.
It may only be level 1, but you can now charm /everyone you meet/. It's not mechanically a big thing, but this is /massive/.


Weightless or other effect. I may add something to the speed type gain to make you automatically gain speed types necessary to pursue your designated target. We'll see.

Yes and yes. You can walk through a Wall of Force with that effect active. Solid objects ain't gonna stop you.
Good on both!


You gain Mythic Tiers by, in essence, doing badass things. Experience points or level has nothing to do with it. And Sera has answered better than I have here. Thanks!

No.
I seeeeee. Interesting.
This does leave the mythic invocations issue.

Snowfire
2013-02-17, 06:53 AM
I despise alignment locks with every single atom of my body. >_>

Then I'm sorry, but this class is not for you. If you would note the addition of the Incorruptible class feature, you might understand why. To put it very simple Lix?


Children of Light are basically old school magical girls. If you want moral ambiguity, you're looking at the wrong PrC.


There's nothing in there powerful enough to warrant it, and it's really an unpleasant mechanic. : /

Again, sorry, too bad. I am not shifting on this.


I guess it makes more sense when it's a pre-existing costume effect. It just feels odd.

And again, pointing at aerial mage here. That's where all this stuff came from. And I will say again, that all of my PrCs since that class was posted have incorporated this feature.


It feels like a downgrade. The Meaning Of Courage is one of the single most evocative thing in the ToR.

It may feel like a downgrade, it is, however, an upgrade. You are also seeming to ignore the effects it grants to her allies.


I know. This is often waived.
It's probably fine.

If it was waived, I suspect I would say so. Where there is no specifics, general is king.


I did re-read it before asking. If you use it for a really powerful effect, do you pay the XP cost?

And this is in the class feature so I really don't see why you're keeping on asking. But, to clarify.


At level nine, the Child may, once per day, drain their entire mote pool to cast Miracle with a Caster Level of their Evoker Level. Their mote pool remains empty after the use of this ability for one minute. In addition, for the sacrifice of four negative levels, they may request a more powerful miracle without loss of xp. These negative levels cannot be cured by any means other than natural healing at a rate of one negative level per day.

Bolded for emphasis.


The argument that 'X gets (broken thing), so Y should!' is not really a great one. But, assuming the XP cost remains, it's probably fine due to the including ability for the DM to say nope.

And, I am sorry, but this betrays a startling misunderstanding of the actual power of the Miracle spell which seems to be rather widespread considering how many people freak out whenever the spell is even mentioned. And that is as far as I am going.


...sorry, I entirely derped on it. I saw the duration was 'concentration' and missed the 'up to'. Prolly fine.

I see no reason it would not be. And if I do anything else, their main class feature is crap.


I know, I just prefer everything to be stated...

It is. I am not going to go through all of my classes and clarify the exact action cost when it is already there.


It may only be level 1, but you can now charm /everyone you meet/. It's not mechanically a big thing, but this is /massive/.

Will saves. They exist. As do Protection from Alignment spells. You're assuming that they'll be able to do this successfully all the time and/or get away with it.

If your DM has any idea what they're doing, an Artist won't.


I seeeeee. Interesting.
This does leave the mythic invocations issue.

Not really. Pathfinder has no invocation using class. And if you intend on making mythic invocations, I am going to strongly suggest that you read the ruleset first. It's free on the Pazio site.

Garryl
2013-02-17, 01:31 PM
Light Springs Eternal (Su): There was a time once, long ago, when the raw emotion of those gifted with the power of Light could snuff out stars and topple gods from their pedestals on high. And whilst that time may be long past, a shadow of that power remains in the spiritual descendants of those original Heroes.

At level nine, the Child may, once per day, drain their entire mote pool to cast Miracle with a Caster Level of their Evoker Level. Their mote pool remains empty after the use of this ability for one minute. In addition, for the sacrifice of four negative levels, they may request a more powerful miracle without loss of xp. These negative levels cannot be cured by any means other than natural healing at a rate of one negative level per day and take effect regardless of any immunity to them.

These Miracles are requested from the Light, and are approved only if the Miracle would be for the good of all, not just that of the Child alone. Selfish Miracles are always refused.


This ability needs a little rewriting. As written, it does not function as appears to be intended.

1) As a supernatural ability, you ignore xp components, period. Thus, the baseline miracle effect can achieve greater effects at no cost.
Put a hold on that. SLAs say no to xp components, but I can't find the passage that says the same for Sus. I'm still pretty sure it's the case, though.

2) Nothing actually states that the baseline miracle effect cannot be used for a greater miracle, just that there is an option to replace the xp costs with 4 negative levels.

3) Since you accumulate negative levels, talking about "sacrificing" negative levels would mean losing them. To use that option, you would have to have some negative levels in the first place, and then this ability would remove them.

4) The 4 negative levels can't be removed except 1/day, but nothing appears to prevent the normal level loss clause of negative levels every 24 hours. Over the course of the 4 days, there is the potential to lose 10 character levels!

I would suggest the following wording instead to clear up any confusion.



At level nine, the Child may, once per day, drain their entire mote pool to cast Miracle with a Caster Level of their Evoker Level. Their mote pool remains empty after the use of this ability for one minute. The Child must still provide any material, focus, or experience components of the Miracle, and the Miracle cannot be a very powerful request.

In addition, by voluntarily gaining four negative levels, the Child may request a more powerful miracle. In such a case, the Miracle does not cost the usual additional 5000 xp. These negative levels cannot be cured by any means and take effect regardless of any immunity to them. Only one of these negative levels is removed every 24 hours, but they never cause permanent level loss.

Snowfire
2013-02-17, 01:37 PM
This ability needs a little rewriting. As written, it does not function as appears to be intended.

1) As a supernatural ability, you ignore xp components, period. Thus, the baseline miracle effect can achieve greater effects at no cost.
Put a hold on that. SLAs say no to xp components, but I can't find the passage that says the same for Sus. I'm still pretty sure it's the case, though.

2) Nothing actually states that the baseline miracle effect cannot be used for a greater miracle, just that there is an option to replace the xp costs with 4 negative levels.

3) Since you accumulate negative levels, talking about "sacrificing" negative levels would mean losing them. To use that option, you would have to have some negative levels in the first place, and then this ability would remove them.

4) The 4 negative levels can't be removed except 1/day, but nothing appears to prevent the normal level loss clause of negative levels every 24 hours. Over the course of the 4 days, there is the potential to lose 10 character levels!

I would suggest the following wording instead to clear up any confusion.

Ah, fair points. As far as I'm aware, Su abilities cost XP and suchlike - it's one of their weaknesses compared to SLAs.

I will put that wording in though, as it's a lot better than mine. Many thanks.

Draken
2013-02-17, 02:21 PM
Supernatural abilities, by default, cost nothing more than the action to activate them (and whatever daily uses they might have, but usually they are at-will or have a recharge time). There is no inherent disadvantage to (Su) compared to (Sl), and (Su) is in fact objectively better than (Sl) whenever their effects match.

Lix Lorn
2013-02-17, 06:03 PM
Then I'm sorry, but this class is not for you. If you would note the addition of the Incorruptible class feature, you might understand why. To put it very simple Lix?

Again, sorry, too bad. I am not shifting on this.
The class loses nothing by catering for additional character options. What's more, by doing this, you close off a whole swathe of them. But you're not gonna agree.
As written, Incorruptible and Heritage Bound combine to say 'you can't progress in anything ever.'


And again, pointing at aerial mage here. That's where all this stuff came from. And I will say again, that all of my PrCs since that class was posted have incorporated this feature.
It felt kinda odd to me then as well.


It may feel like a downgrade, it is, however, an upgrade. You are also seeming to ignore the effects it grants to her allies.
Mechanically yes, but it gets rid of an absolutely beautiful piece of fluff.


If it was waived, I suspect I would say so. Where there is no specifics, general is king.
When general can be broken, I like to be sure.


And this is in the class feature so I really don't see why you're keeping on asking. But, to clarify.
Aaaah. When I read that, I thought it meant a stronger miracle than the spell normally gives at all.


And, I am sorry, but this betrays a startling misunderstanding of the actual power of the Miracle spell which seems to be rather widespread considering how many people freak out whenever the spell is even mentioned. And that is as far as I am going.
It's the divine version of wish, essentially. The deity needing to grant it makes it much better.


I see no reason it would not be. And if I do anything else, their main class feature is crap.
As I said, probably fine. If you're taking 'probably' to be bad, then I should say I dislike giving 100% yes or no to things.


Will saves. They exist. As do Protection from Alignment spells. You're assuming that they'll be able to do this successfully all the time and/or get away with it.

If your DM has any idea what they're doing, an Artist won't.
They won't get major characters, but they'll likely get all of the minor characters. Why would citizen 24 have protection from alignment? Or a good will save?
This feature can get you /massive/ groups of allies.
O'course, it's not a dominate spell, so it shouldn't cause too much trouble.


Not really. Pathfinder has no invocation using class. And if you intend on making mythic invocations, I am going to strongly suggest that you read the ruleset first. It's free on the Pazio site.
Whoops typo. I meant Illuminations, as per the problem I said on the first post.

Snowfire
2013-02-17, 06:22 PM
Supernatural abilities, by default, cost nothing more than the action to activate them (and whatever daily uses they might have, but usually they are at-will or have a recharge time). There is no inherent disadvantage to (Su) compared to (Sl), and (Su) is in fact objectively better than (Sl) whenever their effects match.

Ah, my bad. Thanks.


The class loses nothing by catering for additional character options. What's more, by doing this, you close off a whole swathe of them. But you're not gonna agree.
As written, Incorruptible and Heritage Bound combine to say 'you can't progress in anything ever.'

Actually it loses everything if it allows you to be evil. You're probably never going to agree with me there, but I am going to suggest you look at the really old magical girl series and then come back and look at this again. Probably won't change your mind due to you have an irrational hatred of alignment restriction, but there's nothing I can do there. Your closing comment also betrays an utter lack of understanding in regards to how fluff is meant to interact with mechanics and how the mechanics themselves actually limit you.

Look at Sailor Moon or MG shows of that era. Look at the protagonists. This is not a 'everything is grey' post-modernist class. This is an old school, "black is black, white is white and never the twain shall meet" class. And before you ask, I am not going to ever make a blackguard type class in counterpart to this one. And I have a real sorry suspicion that if I did, you wouldn't even quibble over an evil alignment restriction there.

And I am not continuing this conversation further because there is absolutely zero way I am going to compromise the fluff that makes this class what it is. And you're never going to accept any explanation I give. So there's no point in trying :smallsigh:


It's the divine version of wish, essentially. The deity needing to grant it makes it much better.

And again, no. You're not getting it. Another of those conversations that we'll never be able to resolve. So no point either :smallsigh:


They won't get major characters, but they'll likely get all of the minor characters. Why would citizen 24 have protection from alignment? Or a good will save?
This feature can get you /massive/ groups of allies.
O'course, it's not a dominate spell, so it shouldn't cause too much trouble.

Wrong. You'll get utter faceless NPCs. Minor characters will likely have either some form of protection or reasonable will saves. This is somewhat based off of my own gaming and DMing experience - all of which exist with the premise that NPCs are not all level 1s. And a good number will have a PC class levels.

And even if that's not the case, massive groups of really weak allies are basically useless, especially as they'll just run if you ask them to do something suicidal. Friends will only do so much.


Whoops typo. I meant Illuminations, as per the problem I said on the first post.

Not really an issue. You choose an Illumination. If you re-work that Illumination so that it not longer exists, you choose a different one. Pretty simple.

Lix Lorn
2013-02-17, 06:24 PM
Not really an issue. You choose an Illumination. If you re-work that Illumination so that it not longer exists, you choose a different one. Pretty simple.
That should probably be stated. As written, I think you'd just lose it.

Garryl
2013-02-17, 07:32 PM
What's with the Heritage Bound no multiclassing thing? You make reference to the Sublime Chord, but the SC has no such limitation. The closest thing I can think of to that is the various Taint PrCs forcing you to make a Will save every level or take another level of the class.

I just don't see the logic behind forcing you to take either 0 or 10 levels. It's at odds with the basic system of multiclassing in character design. This class isn't filled with heavily frontloaded features that wouldn't make sense to split across the full 10 levels. What's the reasoning behind it? From the mechanical side, not the fluff side, that is. (Fluff-wise, I think the justification you've given makes it seems like an evil thing, not a good one. Asking someone to surrender their freedom of choice is a concept absolutely opposed to goodness.)

Interestingly, as it is a class feature, there are several ways to bypass Heritage Bound. Off the top of my head...
- Commit an evil act, thus permanently losing your class features through Incorruptible (never said it was a useful way).
- Level up while under the effects of Baleful Polymorph.
- Use retraining/Psychic Reformation to trade away your Ancestral Radiant feat, thus losing the ability to qualify for the class (and thus your class features, as per Complete Warrior). Retrain/Psy Ref it back once you're done leveling up.

Ancestral Seal (Staff) is confusing in its interactions with illuminations. The rules about how that would work boggle my mind. I'm pretty sure you only repick your illuminations when leveling up. With such a variable evoker level, it's quite possible to have illuminations that you can't use without your device, or inability to use your illuminations to their fullest with your device. Or maybe it's letting you repick some or all of your illuminations every time you let go of or hold your device. I'm not really sure, and there are probably several other possibilities I haven't thought of. The evoker rules don't seem to be designed for this kind of frequent raising and lowering of effective level.

... Plus there's also the issue that this looks like a 5/10 progression class, but is actually 10/10. That's just confusing.

I'm getting a really scary "for the Greater Good" kind of vibe from some of the Child of Light's class features. Is it just me?

Edit: Gurk! Major fail on my part. I meant to say that the class wasn't filled with frontloaded class features, not that it was.

Snowfire
2013-02-17, 08:32 PM
What's with the Heritage Bound no multiclassing thing? You make reference to the Sublime Chord, but the SC has no such limitation. The closest thing I can think of to that is the various Taint PrCs forcing you to make a Will save every level or take another level of the class.

There, my apologies, I'm using a non-core version of SC. My reasons however are in the spoiler text of the class.


I just don't see the logic behind forcing you to take either 0 or 10 levels. It's at odds with the basic system of multiclassing in character design. This class is filled with heavily frontloaded features that wouldn't make sense to split across the full 10 levels. What's the reasoning behind it? From the mechanical side, not the fluff side, that is. (Fluff-wise, I think the justification you've given makes it seems like an evil thing, not a good one. Asking someone to surrender their freedom of choice is a concept absolutely opposed to goodness.)

I will admit, the main reason for the restriction of the class is a fluff one similar to that of the Paladin. In regards to the basic system of multiclassing, as this is primarily a fluff issue, I'm not budging. And as to fluff, I'm going to again point at the older MG series.

As to freedom of choice thing, I am going to point out something here.

Freedom of choice in D&D isn't a moral but ethical concept. To say nothing of the fact that this has nothing to do with choice. Children of Light are Children of Light because it is who they are. It's no more something forced on them than it is 'forced' on them to be a specific race or to be a living creature. It's literally their state of being. The class represents unlocking and tapping into the potential of a primordial shard of light that their soul, being that of a reincarnated Hero of Light, has carried since the beginning of time.

Once they make the choice to reach for that past glory once more, they can't turn away from that choice because this primal light flows within them, growing and expanding inevitably. It's not a choice, but to describe it as a curse or in a negative light presents not only a deep misunderstanding of the themes at play (Not everything is a post-modernist deconstruction, yo) but a disingenuous interpretation of what is, in the end, literally personal growth.

This isn't Warhammer 40K. This is old school magical girls where the protagonists are good, pure and innocent. Seriously, what's up with searching for moral ambiguity where there is none? Are you the type who absolutely crave moral ambiguity in your Paladins too? Because that would explain a lot.


Interestingly, as it is a class feature, there are several ways to bypass Heritage Bound. Off the top of my head...
- Commit an evil act, thus permanently losing your class features through Incorruptible (never said it was a useful way).
- Level up while under the effects of Baleful Polymorph.
- Use retraining/Psychic Reformation to trade away your Ancestral Radiant feat, thus losing the ability to qualify for the class (and thus your class features, as per Complete Warrior). Retrain/Psy Ref it back once you're done leveling up.

All but the first of which are cheeseing to a wholly irresponsible degree, and hence any sensible DM would/should disallow. Personal opinion here mind. But yes, the first is the main route. But, please, consider what this PrC is meant to exemplify.


Ancestral Seal (Staff) is confusing in its interactions with illuminations. The rules about how that would work boggle my mind. I'm pretty sure you only repick your illuminations when leveling up. With such a variable evoker level, it's quite possible to have illuminations that you can't use without your device, or inability to use your illuminations to their fullest with your device. Or maybe it's letting you repick some or all of your illuminations every time you let go of or hold your device. I'm not really sure, and there are probably several other possibilities I haven't thought of. The evoker rules don't seem to be designed for this kind of frequent raising and lowering of effective level.

You only repick when levelling up. This is a manifestation of the old school MG who absolutely had to have her trinket to fire up her Illuminations. I will, however, probably clarify this at some point.


I'm getting a really scary "for the Greater Good" kind of vibe from some of the Child of Light's class features. Is it just me?

And I am going to advise you to go and watch either some Sailor Moon or Cardcaptor Sakura. Because those are the show protagonists that I made this class to emulate.

Danakir
2013-02-17, 08:39 PM
What people seem to misunderstand about Child of Light is that it's meant to emulate a very specific and deliberately idealistic vision of the magical girl genre. This is a young child's vision of the genre.

Genre emulation is the primary design principle here, not satisfying those who prefer to multiclass a lot or those who prefer questionable morals in their characters. If that's what you want, there's much better PrCs for that which were designed with those kind of notions in mind.

Lix Lorn
2013-02-17, 08:42 PM
Honestly, I object to making a class that could do a hundred things if you took out one rule, but you insist on making it do fifty instead. Moral and ethical choices shouldn't be enforced by the rules.

Danakir
2013-02-17, 08:58 PM
Then you're playing the wrong game. D&D is built around the concept of morality and ethics not as abstract notions but as practical and objective forces of the physical universe. In D&D's standard cosmology, Good or Evil are no less real than gravity and follow rules just as strict.

Not only that, but again, you're emulating a genre that's all about playing the super innocent, pure and loving girl gifted with magical powers to save the world from cartoonish and cackling evil.

Specifically because she has such a pure and caring heart that it makes her super special and uniquely gifted.

That IS the kind of show being emulated.

How does taking away the alignment restriction here make any sort of sense? Or more to the point, would you honestly prefer a generic magical girl class?

In which case, it begs the question, what's wrong with the Champion, Stargazer and Empath which are, for all purpose, generic magical girl classes.

If you take away its purpose to allow people to roleplay as old school magical girl (with their specific brand of classic abilities) away, then what's the point? The class has no reason to exist then.

In fact, I'll even illustrate my point further. You know what we call a generic Paladin? A Divine Champion. Why is the Paladin still something people use despite there being a perfectly good alternative?

Because the Paladin is cool and fits a very specific niche of the genre like a glove. And there's nothing wrong with that.

vasharanpaladin
2013-02-17, 09:19 PM
What people seem to misunderstand about Child of Light is that it's meant to emulate a very specific and deliberately idealistic vision of the magical girl genre. This is a young child's vision of the genre.

Genre emulation is the primary design principle here, not satisfying those who prefer to multiclass a lot or those who prefer questionable morals in their characters. If that's what you want, there's much better PrCs for that which were designed with those kind of notions in mind.

Alternately, play in Eberron, or at least without the idea of alignment as a straitjacket. Pure Is Not Good, and there is nothing in the world so cruel as a child's innocence. :smallbiggrin:

That said, I kinda got lost in the mire of backlogged posts. Excuse me while I go make sense of my own interjections. :smalleek:

Draken
2013-02-17, 09:22 PM
Then you're playing the wrong game. D&D is built around the concept of morality and ethics not as abstract notions but as practical and objective forces of the physical universe. In D&D's standard cosmology, Good or Evil are no less real than gravity and follow rules just as strict.

Not only that, but again, you're emulating a genre that's all about playing the super innocent, pure and loving girl gifted with magical powers to save the world from cartoonish and cackling evil.

Specifically because she has such a pure and caring heart that it makes her super special and uniquely gifted.

That IS the kind of show being emulated.

How does taking away the alignment restriction here make any sort of sense? Or more to the point, would you honestly prefer a generic magical girl class?

In which case, it begs the question, what's wrong with the Champion, Stargazer and Empath which are, for all purpose, generic magical girl classes.

If you take away its purpose to allow people to roleplay as old school magical girl (with their specific brand of classic abilities) away, then what's the point? The class has no reason to exist then.

In fact, I'll even illustrate my point further. You know what we call a generic Paladin? A Divine Champion. Why is the Paladin still something people use despite there being a perfectly good alternative?

Because the Paladin is cool and fits a very specific niche of the genre like a glove. And there's nothing wrong with that.

I believe Lix is talking more about the idea that, for the most part, Good and Evil can easily provide the same powers to those who follow their respective ideologies. And is mostly pushing for the Child of Light to be a chassis more acceptive of the dark side of alignments, much like how paladins got the aligned variants.

kestrel404
2013-02-17, 09:24 PM
Radiant Armourer

Interesting. A few comments.


Requirements
To become a Radiant Armourer, you must fulfil the following criteria:
Feats: Radiant Arsenal, Twinned Device
Skills: Craft (Armorsmithing) 8 Ranks, Craft (Weaponsmithing) 8 Ranks

I'd remove Radiant Arsenal as a requirement. You get the feat a bunch of times as a class feature, and it's pretty unhelpful to Stargazers before they get into this class.


Two good saves and medium BAB. Given the class can serve a front-line fighter type roll it seems to fit.


Enhanced Armoury: Starting at first level, and every odd level thereafter, the Radiant Armourer gains an additional Enhanced Armament. However, unlike normally gaining them, those gained from this class must be split evenly between upgrading costumes and devices. You may put up to one rank more in either of them than the other, from ranks gained from this feature.
I don't like the wording here. Might I suggest:
At first level, you gain an additional Enhanced Armament. At every odd level after first, you gain a new Enhanced Armament, however these must be applied equally to Costume and Device, so the number of enhancements from this class feature that are applied to devices should never be more than one greater or less than the number applied to costumes.


Enhanced Weaving: A Radiant Armourer is skilled at working with radiant armaments as well as the art of imbuing them. As such Radiant Armourer levels progress costume effects as if levels in champion.
Wording here is unclear. Do you want total progression to be based on the champion costume progression, or just the progression from this class? Does the progression start over and total costume enhancements from both add together?
If you tell me what you want, I can probably come up with a good wording. Personally, I think that the simplest thing would just be to switch over to the champion progression all together.


Lastly, for every level in Radiant Armourer, you are treated as having two motes invested in twinned device. These motes do not count toward the normal limit of how many motes may be invested at any given time.
Drop this to one mote, and give a free floating mote per level that may only be invested in costume effects. Given the number of class features that revolve around them, that would be very handy and it means you're not getting an autmatic ~8 devices (short by one mote) from this feat when you're likely to only want 4-6.


Unfortunately, devices and costumes used by others are not as effective as those used by the Radiant Armourer herself. As such they only count as having half as many Enhanced Armament points in any given Enhanced Armament as they actually do (in the case of Enhanced Armaments that may only be taken once, they are not halved). Additionally, they do not benefit from any costume effects.
Wording again. How about:
Devices summoned into the hands of others are not quite as potent as those wielded by the Armourer herself. Allies do not gain the benefits of any costume effects. Additionally, any Enhanced Armament effect that is applied more than once to a device or costume loses half of those applications (round down). For example, a Costume that has the three Durable enhancements and one Agile enhancement when worn by the Armourer would instead only have one Durable and one Agile enhancement when worn by an ally.


Blast Forged Device (Su):

That's nifty. I like it.


Allied Assault (Su): Starting at 7th level, the Radiant Armourer becomes able to imbue her allies attacks with power as well as her own. On any turn she makes an attack, or as a standard action, she may expend motes as if paying for an assault blast. However, rather than using it herself, she may grant it to the attack of an ally using one of her devices made before the start of her next turn. Unfortunately so may not unleash her full power this way. This may not be used with assault blasts that cost more motes than half the Radiant Armourer's evoker level.

Stargazers cannot use Assault illuminations. Also, I don't see any significant benefit to this ability. Perhaps instead:
Starting at 7th level, the Radiant Armourer becomes able to imbue her allies' attacks with power akin to illuminations. As a standard action, the Armourer may expend up to Evoker level in motes. Each ally who is wielding one of her devices may choose to apply the effects of a Blast/Assault illumination costing 1/2 of the motes spent this way (round down) to one attack made before the beginning of the Armorer's next turn. Using this effect must be declared before the attack is rolled.

Basically, this allows several allies to benefit from the effect at once, but forces the armorer to sacrifice her own action to do so. Somebody may want to run the numbers on the mote-to-damage effeciency on this in case it's too powerful at 1/2. Compare with AOE/Multi-target blast illuminations.


Effective Arsenal (Su): ...Motes applied to those devices and costumes may be divided among the effects at her discretion.

I dislike this, it's very confusing and at this level the micro-managing involved becomes ridiculous.
Instead, just make it so that mote allocations are identical to the ones on her own costumes.

Hope that helps.

Snowfire
2013-02-17, 09:25 PM
I believe Lix is talking more about the idea that, for the most part, Good and Evil can easily provide the same powers to those who follow their respective ideologies. And is mostly pushing for the Child of Light to be a chassis more acceptive of the dark side of alignments, much like how paladins got the aligned variants.

And the answer to that is no.

You're asking me to make my creation more generic and less interesting. So in that regard, we'll have to agree to disagree.

vasharanpaladin
2013-02-17, 10:52 PM
...I just realized my hypothetical Champion has to use a feat slot to get Force of Personality. :smallfrown:

Also, is it just me or is the "dark magical girl" going to be hard to do as anything but fluff on a non-Child of Light build this time around? I'm still looking forward to seeing how it'll be done, I keep thinking of a three-level deal like Hellfire Warlock...

NineThePuma
2013-02-17, 10:56 PM
Personally, I don't find it interesting now.

vasharanpaladin
2013-02-17, 11:01 PM
Personally, I don't find it interesting now.

Then don't use it. It's more sensible than persisting in an argument you're destined to lose.

Draken
2013-02-17, 11:37 PM
And the answer to that is no.

You're asking me to make my creation more generic and less interesting. So in that regard, we'll have to agree to disagree.

I didn't ask anything.

I mean, I personally like it when Prestige Classes have stricter thematics than base classes. That is the point of Prestige Classes.

Snowfire
2013-02-18, 05:10 AM
I didn't ask anything.

I mean, I personally like it when Prestige Classes have stricter thematics than base classes. That is the point of Prestige Classes.

I know. Sorry if I seemed snippy. You did by your statement allow me to effectively nip this entire discussion at the bud. So my thanks.

kestrel404
2013-02-18, 08:25 AM
Also, is it just me or is the "dark magical girl" going to be hard to do as anything but fluff on a non-Child of Light build this time around? I'm still looking forward to seeing how it'll be done, I keep thinking of a three-level deal like Hellfire Warlock...

Give me another week, I've got something cooking for that.

kestrel404
2013-02-18, 10:01 AM
Child of Light


Requirements
Basically a 1 feat entry - as good is going to be mostly assumed for the class, and if you're considering the PrC you're already playing a ToR character.


Class Skill List: Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge [History] (Int), Knowledge [Local] (Int), Listen (Wis), Perform (Cha), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Use Magic Device (Cha)
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier.


Pretty good chassis. Full BAB, all good saves, but only d8 hd and extremely limited evoker progression. Don't worry there though, it's nowhere near as bad as it looks.
Given the focus of this class, I'd go with Wizard BAB rather than full, and d6 HP. Also, 2+int skills is more than sufficient given the power of the class abilities and the complete lack of mention of skills in the rest of the class.


A Child of Light gains additional costume elements as if her levels in Child were levels in her previous evoking class or Empath, whichever is more advantageous.
Rather than this (which is confusing), I'd state that they gain one costume element at level 5, and another at level 10, and otherwise doesn't stack. This gives what amounts to Champion costume progression without needing to get into table-compatibility issues.


Heritage Bound (Ex): Once awakened, the heritage of a Child can never be sealed again. It can only be completed. Once a character takes her first level in Child, she may not exit for the full ten levels until her heritage is fully awakened.
This is a powerful limiter, but considering how powerful the rest of the class is, I don't think it's much of a penalty.


Incorruptible (Ex): Children of Light are stalwart in their convictions and pure in their intentions as no others can be. No force may alter their Alignment less than their own freely chosen actions. Any action they may take that may alter their Alignment is fully disclosed to the player by the DM. This comes as a flash of insight to the Child. Whenever any force conspires to make the Child act outside the bounds of her Alignment, she not only disregards the influence but may roll a second saving throw to break out of it. If no saving throw was allowed, then one is allowed at a standard DC.
A Child who ceases to be good or who willfully commits an evil act loses all Child of Light abilities. She may not progress any farther in levels as a Child of Light.
This is what the Paladin code should have been. It would have prevented all of those 'and suddenly you fall' moments that bad GMs bring about, because the player could say "well, you never mentioned that this went against my code and it clearly says you have to in my class".


Primordial Light (Su): The Children of Light’s power is that of another age, ancient and unbound unlike that of any other Evoker. Her garb is that of the Light’s own, and it cannot be content with the falsehood of a physical form. It burns with the Light of an ancient beacon, and grants her safety against those that would try to harm her.

At 1st level, a Child of Light gains a special costume effect that is always active and gained in addition to all others. Furthermore, she automatically has (class level) motes invested into it, without lowering her mote pool and bypassing normal investment limits.

Effect: The Child gains 20% concealment.

Essence Boost: For every 3m invested in this effect, increase the Child of Light’s concealment by 5%, to a maximum of 50%. If at least 12m are invested, the Child gains Regeneration/Evil equal to one third of the motes invested. If 20m or more are invested, all lethal damage dealt to the Child is converted to nonlethal. If the Child is in any way immune to non-lethal damage, the damage counts as lethal for bypassing the immunity.

OK, this is pretty broken, right there. A constant 20% concealment (without limiters like, 'while in bright light' or similar) effectively renders them immune to most forms of Precision damage (not criticals, though). Was that intended? I suggest adding a limiter on the concealment - some condition it needs to be happen, or else something that stops it. I'd also note that it's bypassed by Blindsight and similar (tremor sense, possibly true seeing) - it's unclear here what the intention is.
Second, Regeneration renders all damage except what bypasses your regeneration to be non-lethal. Did you mean fast healing?


Ancestral Seal (Su): At first level, the radiant heritage of the Child’s past blooms into life, reaching out from beyond the veil of death and finding purchase in the very core of the roaring fire that burns at her heart. This heritage brings many gifts, but it also sets the Child apart as the bearer of an ancient and eternal legacy that will, in time, change her utterly.

At level one, the Child of Light’s device is fundamentally altered, becoming more a trinket than any real weapon. It becomes a potent focus for her Illuminations, allowing her to treat her Child of Light Evoker Level as full progression for all purposes. In addition, she becomes literally incapable of dealing any form of lethal damage. She always deals nonlethal damage, even to creatures immune to it. For the purposes of regeneration or fast healing, it counts as lethal damage.

At level four, the Child’s connection to her ancestral Hero of Light expands further, wrapping her body in protective Light that secures her from many dangers. She gains a permanent effect as Lesser Globe of Invulnerability, and may add her Evoker Stat Modifier as an Insight bonus to AC.

At level seven, the blazing radiance of the Child’s primordial power twines into being around her mind, securing her thoughts from the influence of those who might try to twist her to their will. She gains a permanent effect as a double strength Magic Circle against Evil.

And as she attains her tenth level, the ancient fire of the Hero she is becoming erupts across her very being, changing her irrevocably into something far more than mortal. She will still age, and wither and die. But for her time amongst the living, she is forever set apart as one of the great forces of mortal Light of her generation.

The Child of Light becomes an Outsider with the Native and Good subtypes. She gains immunity to acid, cold, electricity and petrification as well as Fire Resistance 10 and a +4 racial bonus against poison. In addition, her Magic Circle against Evil effect improves for her alone, granting her the effects of a permanent effect as Holy Aura.

Any creature looking upon the reborn Hero of Light immediately intuits her as a creature of overwhelming and radiant purity. Unless the Child of Light takes explicit measure to conceal her alignment, it is as plain to sight as the glow of dawn over the horizon.

Level one ability is unclear - can you create illuminations based on this modifed evoker level? Do you gain extra motes? Given how powerful the rest of the class is, I think it's quite reasonable to say no on both of these.

The level four ability is mildly broken. Add 'while wearing her costume', and make it exclusive to her (instead of a 10' radius sphere) and it becomes (somewhat) more reasonable.

For the seventh level ability, be more clear on what defines a 'double strength' circle of protection. I assume it applies to the +2 boni you get becoming +4 boni, yes?


A Child of Light gains a bonus to all saving throws equal to her (Evoker Stat Modifier).
State that it doesn't stack with divine grace. Otherwise fine (though on an all-good-saves PrC, this is more potent than you might think).


She and all allies within her 30 feet radius mien may also completely ignore all morale or profane penalties.
'mien'?
I don't like that this allows you to ignore morale penalties. Demoralizing the magical girls (and getting it to stick) is a classic villian technique. Maybe break this out into a seperate ability, possibly based off of a standard-action, limited duration, power-of-friendship check?


At level six, the Child of Light ignores any penalties to using Power of Friendship that may stem from their target being an Outsider (or similarly alien creature). Furthermore, should they succeed in bringing their new friend to the side of Good, they immediately go through a miraculous metamorphosis. Encased in a shell of light, they emerge from it as a butterfly, their entire being purified of their former sins and essence as an unique Outsider of the appropriate subtypes. Their appearance changes to suit the aesthetic of their new alignment but they are otherwise unique creatures. The DM should adapt the newly purified Outsider as best suits his campaign and the spirit of this ability.

Furthermore, the purification process is extremely liberating and experiencing this bliss disposes the Outsider rather well toward her new friend. The Outsider is inclined to be helpful and friendly with the Child of Light unless given pressing reason not to be. If the Child of Light has access to cohorts, the Outsider may be chosen as one of their cohorts if they have no more than (HD-2) hit dice.
For a 'mostly fluff' ability, this is pretty darn powerful. Picking up outsider cohorts via social-combat? I don't think I've ever seen anything like that outside of the 'broken things this diplomancer build can do' explanations on TO boards. I'd cut the 'good-metamorphosis' part entirely and replace with the previously mentioned 'morale-speech-of-friendship' ability.


Once per day, the Child of Light may use Raise Dead as a spell-like ability with a Caster Level equal to her Evoker Level upon someone with whom she has a previously established positive relationship. This is a full-round action.
Replace 'raise dead' with Psionic revivify - you get most of the same benefits, but the effect is a lot more reasonable for 1/day with no costs.


At level nine, the Child may, once per day, drain their entire mote pool to cast Miracle with a Caster Level of their Evoker Level. Their mote pool remains empty after the use of this ability for one minute. The Child must still provide any material, focus, or experience components of the Miracle, and the Miracle cannot be a very powerful request.

In addition, by voluntarily gaining four negative levels, the Child may request a more powerful miracle. In such a case, the Miracle does not cost the usual additional 5000 xp. These negative levels cannot be cured by any means and take effect regardless of any immunity to them. Only one of these negative levels is removed every 24 hours, but they never cause permanent level loss.

These Miracles are requested from the Light, and are approved only if the Miracle would be for the good of all, not just that of the Child alone. Selfish Miracles are always refused.
I'd specify that you may not use this ability while you have any negative levels. Other than that, fairly reasonable if very potent.

Overall:
The class is seriously overpowered as is. It has a lot of potential, fluff-wise, but I can't see any reason for ANY of the evoker classes NOT to take this, when all it costs them is a 1st level feat.
Full BAB, all good saves, cleric-HP, ranger-skills, stat-of-choice to both Saves and AC and Full Evoker progression (while using your weapon of choice, no penalties on that one). That right there would be sufficient for any of the ToR base classes to want in, at the cost of a single feat.
Add in constant concealment, regeneration, permanent spell effects (all rounds/level spells, I note), a 1/day free raise dead and a 1/day miracle (with the XP cost eliminated), and a capstone that gives you all the best stuff (that you don't already have) from an LA +2 template.
The class is 'everything and the kitchen sink, and then you win the lottery'. It needs to be toned down on pretty much every point. The 'you may not stop taking levels until you finish the PrC' effect isn't a downside if you'd be insane not to take more levels in the first place.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I just want to be clear on how the overall class feels to me.
Hope that helps.

Snowfire
2013-02-18, 05:34 PM
Given the focus of this class, I'd go with Wizard BAB rather than full, and d6 HP. Also, 2+int skills is more than sufficient given the power of the class abilities and the complete lack of mention of skills in the rest of the class.

I may cut the HD and I have now cut the skills to 4+Int. I am not cutting the BAB, mainly as that locks the class to Stargazer and Empath - due to them being the only ones who get the Sharpshooter Component.



Rather than this (which is confusing), I'd state that they gain one costume element at level 5, and another at level 10, and otherwise doesn't stack. This gives what amounts to Champion costume progression without needing to get into table-compatibility issues.

The thing is, it's not meant to be Champion progression. This is meant to give Stargazer a fighting chance in the costume department - as costume was a rather big thing for these MGs - but not elevate them to the point of Champion.


This is what the Paladin code should have been. It would have prevented all of those 'and suddenly you fall' moments that bad GMs bring about, because the player could say "well, you never mentioned that this went against my code and it clearly says you have to in my class".

Definitely agree with you there. But at least we have this fixed in this case.


OK, this is pretty broken, right there. A constant 20% concealment (without limiters like, 'while in bright light' or similar) effectively renders them immune to most forms of Precision damage (not criticals, though). Was that intended? I suggest adding a limiter on the concealment - some condition it needs to be happen, or else something that stops it. I'd also note that it's bypassed by Blindsight and similar (tremor sense, possibly true seeing) - it's unclear here what the intention is.
Second, Regeneration renders all damage except what bypasses your regeneration to be non-lethal. Did you mean fast healing?

The concealment has been fixed in that it only grants the miss chance inherent (I am not making it miss chance because that is so easy to bypass that it might as well not be there if I do). As to Regeneration, yes, I know. That's kinda the point. Once you hit a certain level with this, you just don't take lethal damage. Fast healing would work, but wouldn't be correct.


Level one ability is unclear - can you create illuminations based on this modifed evoker level? Do you gain extra motes? Given how powerful the rest of the class is, I think it's quite reasonable to say no on both of these.

This has been - hopefully - clarified. In case it has not been.

You prepare Illuminations with your full modified Evoker Level. However if you lose your device, you're basically screwed. As all your Illuminations will be full EL Illuminations and - therefore - you won't be able to evoke them.


The level four ability is mildly broken. Add 'while wearing her costume', and make it exclusive to her (instead of a 10' radius sphere) and it becomes (somewhat) more reasonable.

I've made it reliant on being in costume. Beyond that, I am rather hesitant to change further.


For the seventh level ability, be more clear on what defines a 'double strength' circle of protection. I assume it applies to the +2 boni you get becoming +4 boni, yes?

You assume correctly. In all honesty, I really don't see why I need to clarify this, but if you insist I will.


State that it doesn't stack with divine grace. Otherwise fine (though on an all-good-saves PrC, this is more potent than you might think).

Done.


'mien'?
I don't like that this allows you to ignore morale penalties. Demoralizing the magical girls (and getting it to stick) is a classic villian technique. Maybe break this out into a seperate ability, possibly based off of a standard-action, limited duration, power-of-friendship check?

The thing is, MGs being able to just shrug off that demoralisation is a very big thing too. They wait, and they listen, and then look and just go "No". At which point awesome smackdown generally ensues.


For a 'mostly fluff' ability, this is pretty darn powerful. Picking up outsider cohorts via social-combat? I don't think I've ever seen anything like that outside of the 'broken things this diplomancer build can do' explanations on TO boards. I'd cut the 'good-metamorphosis' part entirely and replace with the previously mentioned 'morale-speech-of-friendship' ability.

I think you've missed the part here that you have to already be applicable to have a cohort to get that bit. This is not free Leadership. To specify:


If the Child of Light has access to cohorts, the Outsider may be chosen as one of their cohorts if they have no more than (HD-2) hit dice.

Bolded for emphasis.


Replace 'raise dead' with Psionic revivify - you get most of the same benefits, but the effect is a lot more reasonable for 1/day with no costs.

Ehhhhhhh, no. Revivify has way too short a period in which it can be used. I may play with the time - make it rounds equal to class level after the end of the encounter - but I'm not making this ability one that becomes useless if you can't get to a person within a round.


I'd specify that you may not use this ability while you have any negative levels. Other than that, fairly reasonable if very potent.

Added in with a slight modification.


Full BAB, all good saves, cleric-HP, ranger-skills, stat-of-choice to both Saves and AC and Full Evoker progression (while using your weapon of choice, no penalties on that one). That right there would be sufficient for any of the ToR base classes to want in, at the cost of a single feat.

Some of this has been changed. Please seem my reasons otherwise. And also look at my other PrCs :smallwink:


Add in constant concealment, regeneration, permanent spell effects (all rounds/level spells, I note), a 1/day free raise dead and a 1/day miracle (with the XP cost eliminated), and a capstone that gives you all the best stuff (that you don't already have) from an LA +2 template.

Concealment is no longer as broken as it inadvertently was. The only one of the perma spell likes - that isn't perma any more - that is round/level is Lesser Globe. Circle against Evil is 10 min/level. And considering you pay ten levels for that template - and I don't give the stat bonuses, spells, holy touch, fast healing equal to HD and a few other things I can't remember offhand - I don't see it as really that bad.

kestrel404
2013-02-18, 06:56 PM
The thing is, it's not meant to be Champion progression. This is meant to give Stargazer a fighting chance in the costume department - as costume was a rather big thing for these MGs - but not elevate them to the point of Champion.

I just don't like leaving things open to interpretation. Switching between costume progressions is a fairly hazy idea - if you're a Stargazer 7/Child of light 5, do you get 2 or 3 costume elements? By one interpretation (you switch to Empath progression completely), you've got 3, and by the other (only your CoL progression is Empath), you've still only got 2 at 12th level, and won't get another for 2 more levels. Or possibly one more level.

This is why I nitpick wording a lot - when I design a mechanic, I don't want to have to explain it beyond the text of the mechanic. Examples also help for this.


The concealment has been fixed in that it only grants the miss chance inherent (I am not making it miss chance because that is so easy to bypass that it might as well not be there if I do). As to Regeneration, yes, I know. That's kinda the point. Once you hit a certain level with this, you just don't take lethal damage. Fast healing would work, but wouldn't be correct.

Change concealment to miss chance - concealment is a keyword that allows for stealth/hide checks. I'm pretty sure you mean just a miss chance.

As for always taking non-lethal damage, what's the point of the 20 mote effect then? That's why I originally thought you meant fast healing. Is it just a way to remove the vulnerability to Evil damage?


You prepare Illuminations with your full modified Evoker Level. However if you lose your device, you're basically screwed. As all your Illuminations will be full EL Illuminations and - therefore - you won't be able to evoke them.

And if your device is a Stance?


I've made it reliant on being in costume. Beyond that, I am rather hesitant to change further.

I'm still pretty wary of this effect. It's just too powerful, IMO, for something that's basically an always-on. It eliminates more than 1/3rd of all possible magical threats to the character and probably her allies as well.


The thing is, MGs being able to just shrug off that demoralisation is a very big thing too. They wait, and they listen, and then look and just go "No". At which point awesome smackdown generally ensues.

It's not a huge thing, either way. Just seemed a touch excessive for a single effect.


I think you've missed the part here that you have to already be applicable to have a cohort to get that bit. This is not free Leadership.

Hmm, I missed that part.


Ehhhhhhh, no. Revivify has way too short a period in which it can be used. I may play with the time - make it rounds equal to class level after the end of the encounter - but I'm not making this ability one that becomes useless if you can't get to a person within a round.

You do know that revivify works for more than one round after the death, right? The penalties just keep getting worse the longer you wait. The difference between Revivify and Raise dead is that it costs the user XP instead of cash-resources. In the case of the Pathfinder ability, it instead bestows negative levels (that get healed at a constant rate).

While it's true that at this level Clerics will regularly have this spell handy, they're going to have a limited number of 1k gp diamonds on hand. The only thing I'm pointing out here is it makes the 'revolving door of death' thing a lot more obvious and breaks a lot of the tension that death involves. If you've got to get to someone ASAP after death to get them back, or if you cannot simply say, "Oh no, two of my party members have died, so I'll have to wait until tomorrow to bring one back", that leaves a lot more sting in the idea of character death than the other way round.


As for this not being seriously powerful (and before I look at the next PrC), I'll re-write Chaitali with 2 levels of this (and to keep things within the Gestalt rules, only 2 levels of Midnight Occultist) and send that over with an analysis of her revised combat potential, as well as what she'd look like at level 17 after finishing out the class.

Snowfire
2013-02-18, 07:19 PM
I just don't like leaving things open to interpretation. Switching between costume progressions is a fairly hazy idea - if you're a Stargazer 7/Child of light 5, do you get 2 or 3 costume elements? By one interpretation (you switch to Empath progression completely), you've got 3, and by the other (only your CoL progression is Empath), you've still only got 2 at 12th level, and won't get another for 2 more levels. Or possibly one more level.

Your CoL counts as Empath for costume. Your levels in Stargazer act as normal.



Change concealment to miss chance - concealment is a keyword that allows for stealth/hide checks. I'm pretty sure you mean just a miss chance.

I did not. If you look here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm#Concealment) it will likely make a lot more sense. You are gaining what is in effect miss chance, but you are gaining it from concealment, not anything else. The reason for this is because that makes it still effective once you get into higher levels and people start busting out True Sight and other abilities that allow you to utterly ignore the effects of miss chance. This, being concealment, does not count as such.


As for always taking non-lethal damage, what's the point of the 20 mote effect then? That's why I originally thought you meant fast healing. Is it just a way to remove the vulnerability to Evil damage?

Basically, yes.


And if your device is a Stance?

Please note the key point made in Seal (Staff)


At level one, the Child of Light’s device is fundamentally altered, becoming more a trinket than any real weapon.

I will make that a mechanical lock if I have to.


I'm still pretty wary of this effect. It's just too powerful, IMO, for something that's basically an always-on. It eliminates more than 1/3rd of all possible magical threats to the character and probably her allies as well.

Almost all of which are hitting the "basically useless" point at the level you get this.


You do know that revivify works for more than one round after the death, right? The penalties just keep getting worse the longer you wait. The difference between Revivify and Raise dead is that it costs the user XP instead of cash-resources. In the case of the Pathfinder ability, it instead bestows negative levels (that get healed at a constant rate).

While it's true that at this level Clerics will regularly have this spell handy, they're going to have a limited number of 1k gp diamonds on hand. The only thing I'm pointing out here is it makes the 'revolving door of death' thing a lot more obvious and breaks a lot of the tension that death involves. If you've got to get to someone ASAP after death to get them back, or if you cannot simply say, "Oh no, two of my party members have died, so I'll have to wait until tomorrow to bring one back", that leaves a lot more sting in the idea of character death than the other way round.

I will think about it.


As for this not being seriously powerful (and before I look at the next PrC), I'll re-write Chaitali with 2 levels of this (and to keep things within the Gestalt rules, only 2 levels of Midnight Occultist) and send that over with an analysis of her revised combat potential, as well as what she'd look like at level 17 after finishing out the class.

I never said this wasn't powerful. It's designed to be powerful. But it does not, to me, break the system. I look forward to seeing your pm.

kestrel404
2013-02-19, 10:43 AM
Light’s Artist
...
Class Skill List: Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge [History] (Int), Knowledge [Local] (Int), Knowledge [Nobility and Royalty] (Int), Listen (Wis), Perform (Cha) Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Use Magic Device (Cha)

Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier.
...
Hit Dice: d10
...
Good EL progression, good saves, full BAB, d10 HD. This a strong chassis, but it's like that for a very good reason.

And 9/10 evoker progression. So no downsides beyond losing 1 evoker level, and you're boosting at least 1 save, and 2 of HD, BAB & Skills in exchange.


Remembered Weaving (Ex):

Still no downside.


Unbreakable (Su):
...
Effect: The Artist gains DR 1/-, as well as 25% fortification, giving her a chance to negate any sneak attack or critical hit and force damage to be rolled normally.

Force damage? Fortification does not normally protect against force damage. If this is intentional, you might want to be a bit more clear.


Light’s Embrace (Su):
Level 1 effect, I like it. Very flavorful and finally gives a good use for Power of Friendship. May want to move it to level 2, however.

Level 4 effect - you seem to have a great love of ignoring immunities that exist for good reasons. Why should a light artist be able to play with something's mind when it's either naturally immune to such or has gone out of it's way to prevent it? The rest is fine, but ignoring immunity to mind affecting is completely excessive.

Level 10 effect - why, exactly, is End of Strife 1/encounter part of this class feature? I can't see any connection to the other mechanics of Light's Embrace at all. While it's thematically linked, so is the rest of the class. Unless it's solely targetted against the recipient of the ribbon, it should be a seperate class feature entirely. Move it to a new level 9 class feature and make it 1/day (a level 9 spell effect 1/encounter at level 17 is just right out, IMO).


Radiant Wonder (Ex):

Looks good, but I recommend you change the levels where you get those effects just to balance the class progression a bit more (otherwise, you're getting big boosts at levels 7 & 10). Move it to levels 6 & 9 and you fill in your dead levels.


Shining Path (Su):
Nice. I like this. There are indeed ways that this can end badly, despite all the limitations placed on it.


Triumph of Light (Ex):
Also fine, it's 1 round/encounter of near invulnerability (I can think of a couple ways around it, but they're limited in scope). Fluffy, useful, interesting.

Overall:
There's no reason for the PrC's chassis to be as good as it is. If you'd given it slightly better HD & skills, it would be 'best chassis possible'. I see no reason why a class whose primary mechanic is based on touch attacks needs full BAB, and I'd honestly drop the good will save (by your very nature you're far too in-tune with others to harden your heart completely) and reduce HP to d8 (at most). Skills I can easily see as 6+int, for all social skills + perform & tumble. Speaking of, add Disguise, Forgery, Kowledge (Architecture) and Tumble to class skill list - they're artistic skills in addition to whatever other uses they may have.

My minor-rebuild on Chaitali is going to take a bit, as my muse has me pointed in a different direction ATM.

Lix Lorn
2013-02-19, 03:31 PM
Force damage? Fortification does not normally protect against force damage. If this is intentional, you might want to be a bit more clear.
Pretty sure she (I think she) doesn't mean that.
It forces critical hits and sneak attacks to do normal damage, rather than interacting with Force damage as in the energy type.

Snowfire
2013-02-19, 03:50 PM
Pretty sure she (I think she) doesn't mean that.
It forces critical hits and sneak attacks to do normal damage, rather than interacting with Force damage as in the energy type.

Y'know, my gender is right up there beneath my picture. And it's male :smallwink:

I mean, seriously folks :smallannoyed::smalltongue:

But yeah, it just forces damage to be rolled normally. That is directly stolen from the wording on the fortification for Defiant :smallwink:

Dragonus45
2013-02-19, 07:22 PM
Y'know, my gender is right up there beneath my picture. And it's male :smallwink:

I mean, seriously folks :smallannoyed::smalltongue:

But yeah, it just forces damage to be rolled normally. That is directly stolen from the wording on the fortification for Defiant :smallwink:

yea but sometimes its easy to miss that and just aim for whatever gender the avatar is.


So, I'm working on folding all of these into my games setting, and for my next planned game i want to make my BBEG a Magical Girl. I have a whole plot worked out, but I'm not sure how to handle power of friendship in a villain. I'm going to decide that players are auto immune to it, and in the BBEG back story i was thinking of doing something weird with it. Would you say a captured person would be able to affect there captor if the captor regularly visited them. Sort of a reverse of the normal situation? I know its not RAW but i wonder if it would be stretching things to far.

Lix Lorn
2013-02-19, 07:42 PM
So, I'm working on folding all of these into my games setting, and for my next planned game i want to make my BBEG a Magical Girl. I have a whole plot worked out, but I'm not sure how to handle power of friendship in a villain. I'm going to decide that players are auto immune to it, and in the BBEG back story i was thinking of doing something weird with it. Would you say a captured person would be able to affect there captor if the captor regularly visited them. Sort of a reverse of the normal situation? I know its not RAW but i wonder if it would be stretching things to far.
It depends on the BBEG.
If they're Stupid Evil then it would only work because magic.
If they're a well-intentioned-extremist, it would work by convincing people that the ends justify the means.
If they're a woobie-destroyer-of-worlds, or are a cult of personality of some kind, it'd work by inspiring sympathy and adoration.

As for the latter, that sounds like a great plotline.

vasharanpaladin
2013-02-19, 09:17 PM
So, I'm working on folding all of these into my games setting, and for my next planned game i want to make my BBEG a Magical Girl. I have a whole plot worked out, but I'm not sure how to handle power of friendship in a villain. I'm going to decide that players are auto immune to it, and in the BBEG back story i was thinking of doing something weird with it. Would you say a captured person would be able to affect there captor if the captor regularly visited them. Sort of a reverse of the normal situation? I know its not RAW but i wonder if it would be stretching things to far.

...Second season of Yu-Gi-Oh! G/X. Similar to Lix's "cult of personality" idea, in fact; the villain befriends the living crap out of someone, who then becomes a villain themselves. Without changing anything from how the hero would do it.

Dragonus45
2013-02-19, 09:39 PM
...Second season of Yu-Gi-Oh! G/X. Similar to Lix's "cult of personality" idea, in fact; the villain befriends the living crap out of someone, who then becomes a villain themselves. Without changing anything from how the hero would do it.

The main thing is what would be the acceptable bounds of taste so to speak. I mainly wonder if the situation i outlined where the MG is the imprisoned one but the captor still stops to talk to them daily would be feasible.


It depends on the BBEG.
If they're a woobie-destroyer-of-worlds, or are a cult of personality of some kind, it'd work by inspiring sympathy and adoration.

As for the latter, that sounds like a great plotline.

That is the plot, i have a whole thing worked out where her adventuring party failed to stop an ultimate evil from devouring the material plane she lived on, so know she travels from one to the other wrecking things and gaining its attention so it eats other peoples as well. The first person she met was a powerful wizard investigating what happened, she started talking, he listened, and then next thing you know the wizard is spouting badly interpreted Nietzsche and trying to destroy the world. Then once he gets stopped she is still out there spreading the "good word"

Dragonus45
2013-02-20, 05:02 PM
Just had an idea, for all the talk of people wanting wide beams, why not just say for every rank up you make the beam shape you can instead increase the width instead of the length by 5 feet.

vasharanpaladin
2013-02-20, 05:34 PM
Just had an idea, for all the talk of people wanting wide beams, why not just say for every rank up you make the beam shape you can instead increase the width instead of the length by 5 feet.

Wide Beam shape component, same cost, but provides a cone 10' in length per motecost spent. :smalltongue:

Lix Lorn
2013-02-20, 07:19 PM
Personally, cone wouldn't do it. I'd want a line, but multiple squares wide. So like Dragonus said would work great for me. xD

vasharanpaladin
2013-02-20, 07:20 PM
Except lines don't work that way, else they wouldn't be lines? :smallconfused:

Dragonus45
2013-02-20, 07:25 PM
Except lines don't work that way, else they wouldn't be lines? :smallconfused:

It's still a line, its just a wider line (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arX6WABSdvg). When i play this i want to play nanoha, and that means befriending people with a bean to make Wing Gundam Zero feel inadequate.

Qwertystop
2013-02-20, 08:48 PM
It's still a line, its just a wider line (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arX6WABSdvg). When i play this i want to play nanoha, and that means befriending people with a bean to make Wing Gundam Zero feel inadequate.

No, the rules for lines ate that you put a straight, zero-width line from the source of the effect to a point in range (with line of effect), then apply the effect to all squares the longer touches. Otherwise your directions would be limited by the grid you're using.

Garryl
2013-02-20, 09:00 PM
No, the rules for lines ate that you put a straight, zero-width line from the source of the effect to a point in range (with line of effect), then apply the effect to all squares the longer touches. Otherwise your directions would be limited by the grid you're using.

Possible solution? Model it as several parallel lines, each with start/endpoints offset by 5 feet from the next line.

kestrel404
2013-02-20, 09:04 PM
OK, for those who are interested, I've started my own little side project.

Since reading the Tome of Radiance, I've been toying with the idea for what the villianous side of things should look like.

Here's the result of my musings. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14747453)

Still a work in progress. Invocations instead of Evocations - and when I get the mechanics for those hammered out fully, they will be different enough to be really interesting.

Dark Raiment will end up looking very similar to costumes and devices, with some effects being straight copies and some completely different, but that will be after I've dealt with Invocations.

Fluff will be added to the mechanics as my muse or peoples suggestions strike me.

Any PEACHes would be appreciated.

Qwertystop
2013-02-20, 09:07 PM
Possible solution? Model it as several parallel lines, each with start/endpoints offset by 5 feet from the next line.

Could work. Another way is to just say it also hits squares adjacent to ones the line hits.

Draken
2013-02-20, 09:19 PM
OK, for those who are interested, I've started my own little side project.

Since reading the Tome of Radiance, I've been toying with the idea for what the villianous side of things should look like.

Here's the result of my musings. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14747453)

Still a work in progress. Invocations instead of Evocations - and when I get the mechanics for those hammered out fully, they will be different enough to be really interesting.

Dark Raiment will end up looking very similar to costumes and devices, with some effects being straight copies and some completely different, but that will be after I've dealt with Invocations.

Fluff will be added to the mechanics as my muse or peoples suggestions strike me.

Any PEACHes would be appreciated.

Might have to consider a different name than "invocations" since that name is already taken by the system used by the Warlock.

NineThePuma
2013-02-20, 10:12 PM
Remind me to see how meshing Evocation with Spellshaping works. =V

caledscratcher
2013-03-02, 10:20 PM
Alright, so I was inspired by kestrel404 and decided to try my own spin on this concept. Thus, the Scrolls of Electricity (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14815036). It's my first Homebrew ever so it's probably super crappy, so you should give it some crit! :3

kestrel404
2013-04-04, 12:05 PM
@Serafina, weren't there more prestige classes?

Selinia
2013-04-08, 12:09 AM
Ugggghhhhh. Not dead. I keep saying it, but at some point a bunch of flesh is just going to peel off my face and the jig will be up. Not a huge update, but should be some more stuff coming on an actual reasonable timetable soon. For now though, show of hands - who likes blowing stuff up?


Demolitions Blast Foundation added! Is it collateral damage if you're trying to level a city block? Does it matter?
Flare Blast Foundation added! Because... wait... wait, Lux, get out of here, shoo, you have your own game to mess around in!
Bomb Blast Shape added! Carpeting an area with boom, now complete with ominous ticking noises.
Imbue Blast Shape added! Giving up some of Assault's action economy for flexibility, Imbue offers some new options to evokers with an AoO focus or magical girls who want to dabble in the Sublime Way.

NineThePuma
2013-04-08, 12:24 AM
Flare Blast Foundation added! Because... wait... wait, Lux, get out of here, shoo, you have your own game to mess around in!

I was imagining this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8ezD2oEwqE) sadly enough.

jamieth
2013-04-08, 03:35 AM
A question on the Imbue: would it be OP to make it Immediate instead of Swift? (better synergy with AoO, I suppose... Also, I'm a bit insufficiently knowledgeable on the question of swifts in general; I suppose you can't Swift and Full Attack on the same turn, right? What about Immediate and FA the following turn? Not that it would matter, since the Imbueing would dissipate before you can turn make use of it anyway... I guess the only real benefit from it being Immediate would be, Surge, than Imbue to AoO).
Love the Bomb, just the thing a tactical-minded Stargazer needs to sculpt the battlefield.
Flare sets up nice multi-character combos, a very fitting thing for the genre. Ruling question, though - how do mutiple Flares stack? Since the initial attack doesn't deal damage, per se, I assume that the second Flare doesn't trigger the release; so, do the target. contains double dose of luminous energy until something else hits it, and then bursts epically with the force of all three attacks combined? (Also, would be a nice thing to make it so that the attack triggering the Release and the Flare damage counts as a single attack for overcoming DR)Oh, and as for Demolitions... "- Even if you found my position, no way you'll get here in time through the entire ship! - No, but I'm not going to. Raising Heart, Breaker Three! DIVINE BUSTER!"

Selinia
2013-04-08, 09:00 AM
A question on the Imbue: would it be OP to make it Immediate instead of Swift? (better synergy with AoO, I suppose... Also, I'm a bit insufficiently knowledgeable on the question of swifts in general; I suppose you can't Swift and Full Attack on the same turn, right? What about Immediate and FA the following turn? Not that it would matter, since the Imbueing would dissipate before you can turn make use of it anyway... I guess the only real benefit from it being Immediate would be, Surge, than Imbue to AoO).

Actually, you can Swift + Full Attack. Full-round actions are misleadingly named - they're really just a combined Move and Standard action, when your compliment of actions each turn is really Standard, Move, Swift. An Immediate action consumes the Swift action of your next turn. I considered making Imbue immediate, but ultimately went with Swift, largely to mirror the Boosts of martial adepts and make the decision between Assault and Imbue a bit more of a tradeoff.



Flare sets up nice multi-character combos, a very fitting thing for the genre. Ruling question, though - how do mutiple Flares stack? Since the initial attack doesn't deal damage, per se, I assume that the second Flare doesn't trigger the release; so, do the target. contains double dose of luminous energy until something else hits it, and then bursts epically with the force of all three attacks combined? (Also, would be a nice thing to make it so that the attack triggering the Release and the Flare damage counts as a single attack for overcoming DR)

This is correct - it is explicitly stated that multiple application of latent Flare damage stack, and all the damage will rush in as a single massive dose when the target takes actual damage. It's good for setting up team attacks as you say - but it also gives a rather potent mid-combat bargaining chip! Enemies are likely going to be less keen to keep fighting once they realize they'll explode violently if they so much as prick their finger.

Oh, also:


Beams can now be widened, with sufficient ranks in the component!

Snowfire
2013-04-08, 11:58 AM
Oh, pretty new things. And one of my own for you too actually. Finished this a while back actually, but formatting it for posting took quite a bit longer than I expected - and I kinda wanted to wait until you posted something before I fired another PrC at you. Now however :smallbiggrin:


Immortal

"You have chosen to stand against me in this. You have chosen poorly. You will open the gates of Hell itself, and I will not yield. You will bloat the sun with arrows and black magic, and I will not bend. You will bring to me all the sovereigns of the heavens and the earth, and I will not bow.

They believe in me. And for them, I will never stop."

- Of the Doom of Tyrants by Immortal Jaenasia

Very few choose to walk the path of the Immortal. Not out of disinterest or lack of desire, but for it is difficult and demanding. The Immortal walks an ascetic path, devoting herself completely and utterly to a single cause. Her heart is cleansed of impurity and vice, dedicated wholly to the people who have put their trust in her.

There is no greater friend, no greater companion and no greater ally than one who walks the path of the Immortal. They are so known not due to their inability to meet a natural death, but due to their truly staggering resilience and the legacy which they inevitability leave behind. They act as inspiration to those who doubt, their body an aegis that defies what others consider impossible, breaking all assaults upon it as if mere inconveniences.

No matter how difficulty or inconvenient this goal of hers might become, an Immortal never surrenders their purpose. It is from this wellspring of belief, faith and determination that the great and amazing power others have called 'the immortal stance' originates.

She is a believer amongst believers. Her loyalty beyond reproach. Her will withstanding all comers.

Pity the darkness for the futility of its war against the Light.

Requirements
To become an Immortal, you must fulfil the following criteria:
Alignment: Any Lawful
Skills: Concentration 9 ranks
Feats: Diehard
Special: Evoker Level 6

Another level seven entry class here, but it really fits to a lot of these. And yes, there's an alignment restriction.

Class Skill List: Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge [Local] (Int), Perform (Cha), Sense Motive (Wis) Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), Use Magical Device (Cha)

Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Champion skills, 'nuff said.

Immortal
Hit Dice: d12

LevelBase Attack BonusFort SaveRef SaveWill SaveSpecialIlluminationsAC Bonus
1st
+1
+2
+0
+2Enhanced Weaving, Unbreakable
+2
2nd
+2
+3
+0
+3I Will Not Yield
+1 level of existing class
+2
3rd
+3
+3
+1
+3Never Falter
+1 level of existing class
+3
4th
+4
+4
+1
+4I Will Not Bow
+3
5th
+5
+4
+1
+4
+1 level of existing class
+4
6th
+6
+5
+2
+5
+1 level of existing class
+4
7th
+7
+5
+2
+5I Will Not Bend
+5
8th
+8
+6
+2
+6
+1 level of existing class
+5
9th
+9
+6
+3
+6
+1 level of existing class
+6
10th
+10
+7
+3
+7Immortal
+6


Lower EL progression, two good saves, full BAB, d12 HD. Oh, and an AC Bonus. A reasonably strong chassis, but it loses a lot in the way of reduced Illumination power and doesn't have as many class powers as most of my other PrCs. The relative strength of those powers, however.

Illuminations: An Immortal’s power flows in strange ways, pouring through heart and mind and flesh and changing them all in ways that none – not even themself – can truly comprehend. But this power limits them in other ways. An Immortal continues to progress access to Illuminations from their Evoking Class, as well as their Evoker Level, as shown. If they have more than one Evoking Class, then they must choose one of them when they takes their first level in Immortal. Once made, this choice cannot be changed.

As per normal. Look at table, work out EL.

AC Bonus: An Immortal gains the listed bonus to AC at level 1, increasing by one every two levels to a maximum of +6 at level 9. This AC bonus is only valid when the Immortal is either unarmoured or in their Costume.

Enhanced Weaving (Ex): An Immortal remains fully capable of weaving their Light into protective shells as she could before awakening her heritage. And the primordial, impossible strength that flows from that heritage grants her great power.

An Immortal gains additional costume elements as if her levels in Immortal were levels in her previous evoking class or Empath, whichever is more advantageous.

Not much really to be said here.

Unbreakable (Su): Immortals are many things, but they are among a precious few evokers that can be said to be truly and utterly unbreakable by that which the world heaps upon them. This power manifests in many ways, but this is one the most iconic.

At 1st level, an Immortal gains a special costume effect that is always active and gained in addition to all others. Furthermore, she automatically has (class level) motes invested into it, without lowering her mote pool and bypassing normal investment limits.

Effect: The Immortal gains DR 1/-, as well as 25% fortification, giving her a chance to negate any sneak attack or critical hit and force damage to be rolled normally.

Essence Boost: For every 2m invested into this effect, increase the granted DR by 1. If the evoker has 8 motes or more invested into this effect, she gains Evasion. If another class would grant her evasion, this effect improves to Improved Evasion. If 16 motes or more are invested, she gains Mettle.

Cartridge Boost: When a Cartridge is expended to fuel this effect, the Immortal is wreathed in a great mantle of furious light that shields her from harm. She gains the effect of the Starmantle spell (BoED), for rounds equal to her (Evoker Stat Modifier).

Unbreakable from Light's Artist. Fits so bad it hurts.

I Will Not Yield (Ex): The vitality of an Immortal is a wonder to behold. Where others flicker and gutter against the choking darkness, they merely expand and blaze forth more violently under the pressure. Pain does not slow them down. And the deadliest of magics cannot touch their diamond soul. For all purpose, in this more than anything else, they live up to their chosen name. They simply do not surrender to their coming death quietly. From this resolute denial, the frailties of human flesh shed off them as if falling petals.

Whenever an Immortal is called to make a fortitude saving throw, they may roll it twice and pick the best result. In the event that they nonetheless fail, they may elect once per day to treat their failure as a natural 20. Should they succeed on their fortitude saving throw, the blinding radiance within explodes forth into an invigorating blast, light streaming from their wounds as they heal 1d6 points of damage per class level.

At level seven, Immortals become immune to penalties that may accrue due to pain and blood loss. They also do not fall unconscious when they reach negative hit points and may continue to act until their death unimpeded.

And here is the first of the three class features that make Immortals live up to their name. Powerful, but not overwhelmingly so - in that a competent GM can - at this point - capitalise on their low reflex save and the fact that they don't get an effective block on that for another six levels.

Never Falter: An Immortal stands in the face of all that attempts to lay them low. Against fire and flood, storm and avalanche, they will hold and never, ever, falter in their conviction. Even as blows rain down on them, they endure. Even as deadly magic ravages them, they will not fall. And even bleeding, shattered and broken, the Light within them endures – and with it so too their bodies.

The Immortal gains the Toughness feat and universal energy resistance 10 and no longer dies at -10 hp, instead requiring a negative hitpoint value equal to her Constitution score times one third her class level (maximum 3 at level 9) to be rendered dead. At level five, her universal energy resistance increases to 20.

Oh please, try to kill me. Amusingly enough, this is partially a balancing mechanism due to their capstone.

I Will Not Bow (Ex): Those without resolve could never hope to awaken the power of the Immortal within them. To be an Immortal is to be a creature of exceptional willpower and conviction. Those who attempt to subvert or fool an Immortal often find themselves reeling against the breathtaking mental fortress that is their heart and mind and their piercing awareness. In this regard, the nature of the Immortal is only barely short of inviolate.

Whenever an Immortal is called to make a will saving throw, they may roll it twice and pick the best result. In the event that they nonetheless fail, they may elect once per day to treat their failure as if they instead had rolled a natural 20. Should they succeed on their will saving throw, their opponent must make a will saving throw at a DC of (10+1/2HD+Evoker Main Attribute) or be dazed for one round.

The fluff here explains in part as to why you don't get non-lawful Immortals, and also gives a rather nasty trick that you can pull on hostile enchanters.

I Will Not Bend (Ex): The body of an Immortal is honed like no other, their Light gifting them with endurance beyond any of their sisters. Blows that would send them sprawling, they simply shrug aside. Blasts of power that would lift them bodily from their feet find them as to a rock within a stream, immovable and seemingly untouchable by raw power. And as a rock in a stream, an Immortal’s body opens a wake in the blasts of magic, shielding their allies from harm with an aegis formed of their blessed flesh and blood.

Whenever an Immortal is called to make a reflex saving throw, they may roll it twice and pick the best result. In the event that they nonetheless fail, they may elect once per day to treat their failure as if they instead had rolled a natural 20. Should they succeed on their reflex saving throw, they may choose to exclude their square and an additional (class level/3) squares directly behind her from the effect that prompted the saving throw.

Not going to lie, I loved writing this one. It literally allows you to turn your character into a shield for the squishies in the party, which is something that D&D lacks on this sort of level.

Immortal (Su): At long last, the full promise of this ascetic path blossom before the Immortal. In their heart, they know they are ready for the time they will be called to perish for their cause. When that time comes, they slump down to one knee no matter what kind of damage or effect should have murdered them... and then they simply refuse to acknowledge death. The shadow of the inevitable recoils in horror and spite as the Immortal is surrounded by a pure white aura of burning light hotter than the sun itself. Anyone adjacent to the Immortal takes 10d6 points of untyped damage. As the blinding display dies down, the Immortal stands back up and with a defiant glare, speaks the words: "There remains one task. I apologize; I have broken my word and have knelt. It shall not happen twice." and with these words, despite their grievous wounds, they rejoin the battle.

In effect, the Immortal is completely and perfectly healed. All HP is returned, all negative conditions are cancelled, lost limbs are returned immediately, any drain effect or ability damage is cured and their mote pool is immediately refreshed. This miracle only applies to any negative effects which have been applied during the current encounter. They may also act immediately while retaining their previous initiative count. They gain a +4 perfection bonus to all rolls for the duration of the encounter. Similarly, they are considered immune to all death effects for the duration of the encounter.

Lastly, they do not need to confirm for critical hits against the one who has murdered them and may ignore any concealment, Damage Reduction and immunities that may prevent them from inflicting damage upon that foe. This does not apply to effects which do not directly cause hit points damage. Furthermore, attacks by the Immortal against said foe cannot be healed magically for the next 24 hours and bypass both Regeneration and Fast Healing.

This ability may only be activated once per encounter, and only when the Immortal would be reduced to negative hitpoints sufficient to render her dead. At the end of the encounter, the Immortal must make a DC 20 Constitution check. If they succeed, they endure with a single HP. If they fail, they simply die.

And...yeah. Hi. This is the capstone. Due to the nature of Never Falter and I Will Not Yield, this is actually a rather difficult power to invoke, but it's also one that you likely won't want to invoke all that often considering the consequences if you fail your ability check. Those of you who have played Exalted might recognise the thematics of a particular Malfeas charm in this. Yes, that is what it is written to mimic.

Draken
2013-04-08, 12:15 PM
DRIVEN BEYOND DEATH

Ahem.

Two details.

Enhanced Weaving references the Child of Light. Immortal (the capstone) references a "Constitution test" at the end. The proper terminology for 3.5E is "Constitution check".

jamieth
2013-04-08, 01:24 PM
A third detail: effect of the Unbreakable costume references Artist

Snowfire
2013-04-08, 02:01 PM
DRIVEN BEYOND DEATH

Ahem.

Two details.

Enhanced Weaving references the Child of Light. Immortal (the capstone) references a "Constitution test" at the end. The proper terminology for 3.5E is "Constitution check".

Why yes, that would be correct.

Both are now fixed. Many thanks.


A third detail: effect of the Unbreakable costume references Artist

And so is this. Thank you.

Garryl
2013-04-08, 02:23 PM
Beam and Cascade blast shapes are missing the [shape] tag that all other shapes seem to have.

May I suggest altering Cascade slightly? At present, it has an ugly exception of being usable with 0 ranks. Instead, have the first rank cost 0 motes, and just remove the extra +1 from everywhere that uses its ranks (number of targets). This also lets you list it up top above the 1m shapes so that the true 0m base cost is visible and obvious for low level evokers.

Cascade [Champion, Empath, Stargazer]
[Mote Cost: 0m + 3m/rank beyond the first]
A single blast of power is the calling card of many magical girls. Brutal, overpowering... and incredibly inelegant. For situations calling for a measured hand and precise aim, it is common for magical girls to configure a barrage of lesser blasts, annihilating enemy forces with the precision of a laser blade. The illumination targets up to one creature per rank in the Cascade component within a 60' base range with a ranged touch attack. The evoker makes only a single attack roll, comparing it to the touch AC of each of her targets.


For Bomb, how do the explosions actually result? Bursts are normally centered on a corner of a space, but the bombs themselves are fully inside a space. Additionally, since each explosion seems to function separately, this appears to be an excessive damage multiplier. Against a creature moving in only 2 dimensions, it takes only 8 bomb bundles (4 for large and larger creatures), less if it's up against a wall or in a narrow corridor, ensuring that the damage is taken at least once, or multiple times if it doesn't take a move action (potentially provoking an AoO and certainly preventing a full attack) to move away and not take the hit of multiple explosions when they detonate.

On a related note, I am reminded of those dastardly caltrops catapult shots in Act 5 of Diablo 2. Lovely.

Lix Lorn
2013-04-08, 04:40 PM
Oh, also:


Beams can now be widened, with sufficient ranks in the component!

MARRY ME
Uh.
Ahem.
Yay.


DRIVEN BEYOND DEATH

Ahem.

Two details.

Enhanced Weaving references the Child of Light. Immortal (the capstone) references a "Constitution test" at the end. The proper terminology for 3.5E is "Constitution check".
Oh lol it is as well.

Looks fine to me.

Selinia
2013-04-08, 07:28 PM
Valkyrie


"I can think of about a dozen ways to crush you right now - since I'm such a nice gal, I'm gonna let you pick."
-Olivia, a Valkyrie

When the Temple of Nine Swords fell to the hordes of darkness on that fateful night so long ago, many would claim that the golden age of the Sublime Way had come to an end, the secrets of the swords lost in the chaos and confusion. To some extent, this was undoubtedly true, and none since have managed to unify the disciplines in the same manner as the wise and mighty Reshar. Yet, in the scattered nooks and crannies of the world, masters and students still train in the old ways, and more warriors study the secrets of perfection than ever before.

With this newfound ubiquity, it was inevitable that one of the many dojos of the Sublime Way would eventually find a student blessed with the inner radiance of a magical girl. None can say who, precisely, was the first to walk the path of the valkyrie, turning the same techniques used to achieve mastery of the Way upon her own inner radiance - all that is known is that, with time, their teachings spread to all corners of the world. Through patience, discipline, and a peerless understanding of the nuances of their power, a valkyrie wields the light as a weapon to match any of the Nine Swords.

Requirements
To become a valkyrie, you must fulfill the following criteria.
Base Attack Bonus: +5
Skills: Concentration 8 ranks, Martial Lore 5 ranks
Feats: Weapon Focus (Device)
Illuminations: Must know at least one illumination with a mote cost of at least 2m
Martial Maneuvers: Must know at least two martial maneuvers, including one strike, one of which must be of at least 2nd level

Valkyrie is a theurge class - which translates into relatively strict prerequisites. The easiest entry by far lies in a build of Champion 2/Crusader 2, and a 5th level in any class with full BAB and concentration as a class skill. That said, if you are willing to enter at a slightly later level, it is still fully possible to take the full 10 levels in this PrC with any combination of ToR and ToB classes - a Swordsage/Empath offers peerless martial versitility, while a Warblade/Stargazer presents a strong option for magical girl warriors focusing on intelligence.

While feat-intensive, it is even possible to enter the class without taking any proper ToB class levels at all - the alternative recharge method offered by Illuminant Adept does much to mitigate the usual weakness of such builds.

Class Skill List: Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge [History] (Int), Knowledge [Local] (Int), Knowledge [Religion] (Int), Martial Lore (Int), Perform (Cha), Sense Motive (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), Use Magical Device (Cha)
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier.

A melding of the Champion and Crusader skill lists, simple enough. The path of a valkyrie is a rigorous one, and leaves its students with training in a much broader field than its component parts alone could offer.

Valkyrie
Hit Dice: d10



Level
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Special
Illuminations


1st
+1
+2
+0
+2
Illuminant Adept
---


2nd
+2
+3
+0
+3

+1 level of existing class


3rd
+3
+3
+1
+3
Martial Evoker
+1 level of existing class


4th
+4
+4
+1
+4

+1 level of existing class


5th
+5
+4
+1
+4
Extra Imbuement
---


6th
+6
+5
+2
+5

+1 level of existing class


7th
+7
+5
+2
+5
Warrior of Light
+1 level of existing class


8th
+8
+6
+2
+6

+1 level of existing class


9th
+9
+6
+3
+6
Faultless Zenith Stance
---


10th
+10
+7
+3
+7
Eternal Blaze
+1 level of existing class





Level
Maneuvers Known
Maneuvers Readied
Stances Known


1st
1
0
0


2nd
0
0
0


3rd
1
1
0


4th
0
0
0


5th
1
0
1


6th
0
1
0


7th
1
0
0


8th
0
0
0


9th
1
1
0


10th
0
0
0



Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A valkyrie is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all armor (heavy, medium, and light) and shields (but not tower shields).

A powerful chassis offers full BAB, d10 HD, and two good saves, along with 7/10 Illumination progression and standard Initiator PrC progression. Like most theurge classes, the dual progression is the key feature of the class, and while a valkyrie will never match her single-progression counterparts in luminosity or martial prowess, she is fully capable of holding her own in either.

And while most valkyries will likely already posses full proficiencies upon class entry, the champion proficiency line will serve as a small treat for those that managed to go without.

Illuminations: At each indicated level, a valkyrie gains an increase in evoker level, illuminations known, illuminations readied, innate illuminations, and personas known as if they had gained a level in an illumination-using class to which they belonged before adding the prestige class level. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If she had more than one illumination-using class before becoming a valkyrie, she must decide to which class to add each level for the aforementioned purposes.

Radiant Armaments: At 5th level, the valkyrie increases her Imbuement limit by one.

All the core elements of an evoker class are present, though at slightly less than full force. Ultimately, an evoker loses three evoker levels in taking the PrC to completion, and Empaths and Champions lose a single costume element as well.

Maneuvers: At 1st level, the valkyrie selects three martial disciplines to form the core of her fighting style. Once made, this decision can never be altered.

At each odd-numbered level, the valkyrie gains a new maneuver known from one of her chosen disciplines. She must meet a maneuver’s prerequisites to learn it. A valkyrie may add her full class level to her initiator level to determine her total initiator level and her highest-level maneuvers known.

At 3rd, 6th, and 9th level, a valkyrie gains an additional readied maneuver.

Stances Known: At 5th level, the valkyrie learns a new stance from one of her chosen disciplines. She must meet a stance’s prerequisites to learn it.

Fitting with the high level of customization available to magical girls, a valkyrie may select any three disciplines from which to draw her powers. A champion aiming to lead and protect from the front might focus on the Devoted Spirit and White Raven disciplines, while one preferring a more nuanced approach might seek mastery of Diamond Mind or Shadow Hand.

Illuminant Adept (Su): As a student of both her inner light and the splendor of the Sublime Way, a valkyrie can do battle with a grace and precision few mundane warriors could ever hope to match. With practice, her maneuvers come to flow through her with the same ease as the illuminations that infuse her soul. As a free action, no more than once per round, the valkyrie may recover a single martial maneuver by expending motes equal to twice the level of that maneuver. She may only use this technique to recover maneuvers of a level is no greater than her class level. This ability does not allow the valkyrie to ready new maneuvers – merely to recover expended ones.

Of all the valkyrie's abilities, this is arguably the most important in cementing their role as a powerful and flexible melee combatant. In essence, your maneuvers now function much like illuminations, ensuring you're never caught with your most vital tools expended and useless. Though a swordsage valkyrie has a bumpy road to class entry, the advantage offered by their expansive Maneuvers Known and Readied selection still arguably places them among the best candidates for the job!

Martial Evoker (Su): A true warrior must learn proficiency with all the weapons at their disposal. While there is a time and a place for elegant mysticism, a valkyrie is a warrior first and foremost. Beginning at 3rd level, whenever the valkyrie uses a Blast illumination, she may treat it as if it possessed either the Imbue blast shape or the Assault blast shape. This replaces any effects the blast’s previous shape might have imparted, but does not alter the illumination’s final cost in any way.

No magical girl ever has quite enough Readied slots to prepare all the illuminations she'd like to bring to a fight, and with a reduced EL, that issue is only exacerbated. Martial Evoker eases things significantly by eliminating the demand for multiple permutations of the Imbue and Assault illuminations that make up a valkyrie's bread and butter, freeing up those precious slots for more interesting fare.

Warrior of Light (Su): Many magical girls would hold to the claim that light is their weapon, but for a valkyrie, this statement is true in a very literal sense. Eschewing the crude physical constructs most evokers require to channel their power, a valkyrie of 7th level or higher is capable of manifesting arms and armor of pure radiant energy. A costume manifested from radiant energy allows the valkyrie to add its armor bonus to her Touch AC, as well as her normal AC. A device manifested from radiant energy deals untyped energy damage, rather than physical damage. Any additional damage imparted by martial maneuvers executed while wielding a radiant device may likewise be converted to untyped energy damage. A valkyrie chooses whether to deploy her armaments in their physical or radiant form each time she manifests them.

Touch attacks are the bane of many armored characters, and a defense against them in any capacity is always welcome. The boost to weapons is arguably less vital, but the ability to bite through DR on a whim is quite useful... and a justification to make lightsaber noises at the rest of the table is something that can't be priced.

Faultless Zenith Stance (Su): At 9th level, a valkyrie masters one of the most difficult and fundamental links between the paths of initiator and evoker, mastering their personal flow of light as an extension of their own body. As a swift action, the valkyrie may exit any stance she is currently occupying to enter the Faultless Zenith stance. As part of this action, the valkyrie selects a single surge illumination she knows (though it does not need to be readied). So long as she remains in the Faultless Zenith stance, the valkyrie gains the full effect of the chosen surge, and her mote pool is reduced by a value equal to the mote cost of the chosen surge. The valkyrie may end this stance at any time as a swift action, or she may simply switch to a different stance – either way, upon exiting the Faultless Zenith stance, her reduced mote pool will refresh to its normal value at the beginning of her next turn.

In effect, every surge you know is now a stance. While the price to maintain such a powerful stance is undoubtedly steep, being able to 'lock in' your favorite surges gives an enormous edge in the action economy, freeing up your precious Swift actions for boosts, counters, and management of costume imbuements.

Eternal Blaze (Su): At 10th level, a valkyrie’s melding of blade and brilliance is, at long last, truly seamless. A barrage of light is no greater a challenge than a graceful dance of blows, and she gives no more thought to her simple illuminations than a veteran soldier gives to the practiced strokes of their weapon. Once per round, the valkyrie may evoke a blast illumination with the Imbue shape component as a free action.

Never again watch an Imbued attack fizzle and fade - the class capstone offers peerless reliability to your martial blasting, allowing you to apply the blast you need when and where you need it, without ever having to worry about wasting the charge on a miss or expending an action.

Sample Valkyrie
Olivia the Indominable: (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=859519) Crusader 3/Champion 2/Valkyrie 7
CR 12 Humanoid (Halfling), Chaotic Good

Garryl
2013-04-08, 08:56 PM
Shouldn't the requirement be 8 ranks in Concentration, not 9? You mention entering after 5 class levels.

If you can stomach the delayed entry due to lost BAB (perhaps by taking other PrCs immediately at level 6 and then taking Valkyrie later on), a single level of Stargazer for Complex Formula meets the evoking requirements, rather than needing two levels of any other class. Is this intentional?

With the standard ToB disciplines, entry is impossible until after level 6 as there are no 2nd level stances to take, thus requiring a 3rd level stance instead. I'd suggest changing it to a 2nd level maneuver instead, thus also not impeding a Warblade entry more so than other ToB classes and being more consistent with other ToB PrCs.

Other than the issues with the entry, the Valkyrie class looks pretty darn good.

Selinia
2013-04-08, 11:40 PM
[CENTER]Immortal

~Snip~


This is a very interesting class in concept, but a few things do jump out at me with regards to it.

First and foremost, it is a frighteningly good dip for any sort of melee-oriented evoker. A champion taking a level in this loses nothing more than a single evoker level (something Practiced Evoker is capable of fixing if it is of great concern), an in exchange gains a significant boost to Will and Fort, a typeless AC pump, a free and always-active upgraded version of an existing costume element, and free rerolls on every fort save you will ever make. Rerolls are strong on their own, and here they come as one component of a very strong framework. You mention a weak reflex balancing that out, but Champion (again, the most obvious entry point), is a Good-reflex class, and the high Max Dex Bonus on costumes make a solid dexterity score advantageous for many evokers. Barring a very brick-like build, reflex will be middling at worst.

Compounding this is that you have essentially no prerequisites - literally any chump evoker can just walk in and take 1st level with no effort on her part whatsoever. Given the thematics of the class, at bare minimum I'd require Concentration ranks, Diehard, and possibly the evoker's choice of a feat from the Iron Will/Great Fortitude/Lightning Reflexes set.

I also find the Lawful pre-req rather distasteful, particularly given how well the unbreakable, unstoppable warrior archetype fits with the most popular examples of chaos. File off the serial numbers, and I'd call this class a sterling example of everything that a Barbarian stands for - brawn, toughness, and a refusal to be bowed by any force. While the fluff says 'ascetic', the class itself is fun and flexible and there isn't really any reason to bar entry if someone wants to bar entry to someone who wants to play it more in accordance with their own story. The valkyrie, as-written, emphasizes the discipline needed to meld their differing paths together, but nothing mechanically requires the player to do that if they don't feel like it.

Honestly though, that is just a fluff quibble, as I'd hope most DMs would just waive alignment requirements as the silliness they are. My main issue is that monster of a 1st level - if you just moved some of that stuff deeper into the class and put some modest prequisites on entry, it'd be much less of a "Why not?" selection and more a choice for those wishing to dedicate themselves to being truly durable.


Beam and Cascade blast shapes are missing the [shape] tag that all other shapes seem to have.

...eeehehehe, actually, those two are the ones in the right here. The [Shape] tags are a relic from the previous Illumination crafting system, before Shape Components were their own category.


May I suggest altering Cascade slightly? At present, it has an ugly exception of being usable with 0 ranks. Instead, have the first rank cost 0 motes, and just remove the extra +1 from everywhere that uses its ranks (number of targets). This also lets you list it up top above the 1m shapes so that the true 0m base cost is visible and obvious for low level evokers.

Cascade [Champion, Empath, Stargazer]
[Mote Cost: 0m + 3m/rank beyond the first]
A single blast of power is the calling card of many magical girls. Brutal, overpowering... and incredibly inelegant. For situations calling for a measured hand and precise aim, it is common for magical girls to configure a barrage of lesser blasts, annihilating enemy forces with the precision of a laser blade. The illumination targets up to one creature per rank in the Cascade component within a 60' base range with a ranged touch attack. The evoker makes only a single attack roll, comparing it to the touch AC of each of her targets.


That is a much more elegant wording. Adopted, and many thanks.


For Bomb, how do the explosions actually result? Bursts are normally centered on a corner of a space, but the bombs themselves are fully inside a space. Additionally, since each explosion seems to function separately, this appears to be an excessive damage multiplier. Against a creature moving in only 2 dimensions, it takes only 8 bomb bundles (4 for large and larger creatures), less if it's up against a wall or in a narrow corridor, ensuring that the damage is taken at least once, or multiple times if it doesn't take a move action (potentially provoking an AoO and certainly preventing a full attack) to move away and not take the hit of multiple explosions when they detonate.

On a related note, I am reminded of those dastardly caltrops catapult shots in Act 5 of Diablo 2. Lovely.

That is a bit of an oversight, I admit. Bombs have been tweaked to clarify the lack of multiplying damage. However, creatures surrounded by explosions do now face a much more difficult saving throw (bordering on impossible if they are completely surrounded), preserving the choice of "Stay still and eat the explosions, or run for it and handle a much more manageable blast?".


Shouldn't the requirement be 8 ranks in Concentration, not 9? You mention entering after 5 class levels.

If you can stomach the delayed entry due to lost BAB (perhaps by taking other PrCs immediately at level 6 and then taking Valkyrie later on), a single level of Stargazer for Complex Formula meets the evoking requirements, rather than needing two levels of any other class. Is this intentional?

With the standard ToB disciplines, entry is impossible until after level 6 as there are no 2nd level stances to take, thus requiring a 3rd level stance instead. I'd suggest changing it to a 2nd level maneuver instead, thus also not impeding a Warblade entry more so than other ToB classes and being more consistent with other ToB PrCs.

Other than the issues with the entry, the Valkyrie class looks pretty darn good.

Thanks for pointing these out - they were oversights, mostly, though the concentration ranks one was a legitimate typo.

As for the Stargazer being able to sneak in with fewer levels on a late entry, yes, that is intentional. As much as the 'obvious' way in is Champion/Crusader, there are actually quite a few ways into the Valkyrie, and I like to think that most of them have their own merits. Fast-tracking your evoker pre-reqs with Stargazer will obviously result in weaker illumination capabilities by the end of your build, but it's a solid option if you're looking to focus as a martial adept who only dabbles in the channeling of light.

Garryl
2013-04-09, 12:19 AM
That is a bit of an oversight, I admit. Bombs have been tweaked to clarify the lack of multiplying damage. However, creatures surrounded by explosions do now face a much more difficult saving throw (bordering on impossible if they are completely surrounded), preserving the choice of "Stay still and eat the explosions, or run for it and handle a much more manageable blast?".


You can still eat multiplied blast damage by triggering multiple bundles separately (ex: move through multiple bundles, move into a bundles then sit next to others that detonate). A particularly nasty combo would be to lay down lots of bomb bundles adjacent to an opponent with the Tactics component, and then trigger them all by moving through them yourself (or asking one or more allies to do it for you).

If you wanted, you could further restrict it to one time getting damaged, period, with something like this:

"The first time a creature would be affected by a given evoking of a bomb illumination, it must make a Reflex saving throw. On a failure, it takes damage normally. On a success, it takes only half damage. Additional detonations within the same round from the same evoking of the illumination do not directly cause additional damage or effects. However, the energy of a bomb lingers for a moment. For every 2 points by which the subject succeeded on its saving throw, it is protected from the additional effects of one additional detonation. A creature that automatically succeeded on its saving throw (such as from rolling a natural 20) is instead protected from all additional detonations. If the creature would be affected by more detonations than this limit, the creature immediately takes the remaining damage that was prevented by its initial saving throw. This damage is not considered to be from the same source as the initial damage, so effects that reduce damage or otherwise mitigate the illumination's effects do not separately apply to this new damage. Only the parts that would have applied had the saving throw been failed in the first place affect the additional damage, and any changes to the creature's defensive abilities after the initial detonation do not affect the additional damage. For example, if an Animated Object with hardness 8 were to succeed by 3 on a saving throw for half damage of a 10 point bomb, it would take 5 damage initially, all of which is prevented by its hardness. If, later in the round, it was affected by 2 additional bomb detonations, it would immediately take the remaining 5 damage, of which only 3 (the remainder of its hardness from the initial damage) would be prevented. Any subsequent detonations would cause no additional harm to the Animated Object."

... but that's horrendously complex.



Thanks for pointing these out - they were oversights, mostly, though the concentration ranks one was a legitimate typo.

As for the Stargazer being able to sneak in with fewer levels on a late entry, yes, that is intentional. As much as the 'obvious' way in is Champion/Crusader, there are actually quite a few ways into the Valkyrie, and I like to think that most of them have their own merits. Fast-tracking your evoker pre-reqs with Stargazer will obviously result in weaker illumination capabilities by the end of your build, but it's a solid option if you're looking to focus as a martial adept who only dabbles in the channeling of light.

Coolio.

Snowfire
2013-04-09, 04:48 AM
This is a very interesting class in concept, but a few things do jump out at me with regards to it.

First and foremost, it is a frighteningly good dip for any sort of melee-oriented evoker. A champion taking a level in this loses nothing more than a single evoker level (something Practiced Evoker is capable of fixing if it is of great concern), an in exchange gains a significant boost to Will and Fort, a typeless AC pump, a free and always-active upgraded version of an existing costume element, and free rerolls on every fort save you will ever make. Rerolls are strong on their own, and here they come as one component of a very strong framework. You mention a weak reflex balancing that out, but Champion (again, the most obvious entry point), is a Good-reflex class, and the high Max Dex Bonus on costumes make a solid dexterity score advantageous for many evokers. Barring a very brick-like build, reflex will be middling at worst.

I have shifted I Will Not Yield to level 2.


Compounding this is that you have essentially no prerequisites - literally any chump evoker can just walk in and take 1st level with no effort on her part whatsoever. Given the thematics of the class, at bare minimum I'd require Concentration ranks, Diehard, and possibly the evoker's choice of a feat from the Iron Will/Great Fortitude/Lightning Reflexes set.

Barring, of course, the alignment restriction. I have added in Concentration ranks (8) as a pre-req in addition to Diehard (even though it basically becomes obselete when the Immortal hits level 7 and the secondary effect of I Will Not Yield kicks in.


I also find the Lawful pre-req rather distasteful, particularly given how well the unbreakable, unstoppable warrior archetype fits with the most popular examples of chaos. File off the serial numbers, and I'd call this class a sterling example of everything that a Barbarian stands for - brawn, toughness, and a refusal to be bowed by any force. While the fluff says 'ascetic', the class itself is fun and flexible and there isn't really any reason to bar entry if someone wants to bar entry to someone who wants to play it more in accordance with their own story. The valkyrie, as-written, emphasizes the discipline needed to meld their differing paths together, but nothing mechanically requires the player to do that if they don't feel like it.

Honestly though, that is just a fluff quibble, as I'd hope most DMs would just waive alignment requirements as the silliness they are.

And here is where the same argument that I had with Lix comes in. Because, yes, file off the fluff and this becomes generic. But here's the thing. If you file off the fluff, you destroy the class as it has been written to be. It is really that simple.

Prestige classes exist to be more complex to enter, to be something that it takes a degree of directional character building to reach. This is deliberate, and is one of the few things that makes them special compared to base classes. What you are saying above, regardless of how you have framed it, spits directly in the face of that ideal.

Why do you think that 3.0 and 3.5 Faerun PrCs are sometimes hellishly restrictive in their ability to enter? And why, perhance, do you think people still take those incredibly restrictive classes? It's because that, at its core, the PrC system is designed to reward focus. It's designed to reward the playing of a character just as much as it rewards the building of the character on paper - quite possibly more so to the former. And this, here, is the thing that I'm trying to say.

If a DM takes this class and decides to "waive alignment requirements as the silliness they are." then the class isn't an Immortal anymore. It's just a generic, incredibly-hard-to-kill beatstick. Sure, you can give it alternate fluff. But that does nothing to the statement that I have already made in that it is, at that point, no longer an Immortal in any sense of the term.

An Immortal is not what they are because they are, themselves, powerful. They do not become what they are through a need for self-empowerment for the sake of self-empowerment. An Immortal, by their very nature, becomes powerful so that they can protect. A person, an ideal, a nation, a miniature giant space hamster, whatever. They become stronger through channeling their Light through that utter commitment to that ideal. And that sort of commitment is, by definition, Lawful.

A lot of people look at Lawful and assume that they have to follow the rules of the land, or a lord, or an outside force or code. Lawful is none of those things. Lawful is the following of a creed, the commitment freely granted to a shield-sib or even one's own family. Those are all Lawful concepts. Because when it comes right down to it, the primary example that most give as a Chaotic Good character (well, that I've heard at least) - that being Robin Hood - is far more Lawful than Chaotic.

And that is the same way that Immortals are always Lawful over Chaotic. If you want a nigh invincible warrior of Chaos, play a barbarian. Or make a ToR PrC that lets you do that, because the warriors of Chaos are innately aggressors. They aim to destroy those attacking themselves and those that they might protect. A Lawful character - at least in the matter of an Immortal - exists to protect those under their care, or the ideal that they've devoted themselves to or etc. etc. etc. You get the idea.

Now here's the most important part. Can an Immortal be an aggressor? Yes, they can. But Immortals, in contrast to the idea of Barbarians, attack through defence. Barbarians in this system are charging death machines. Yes, they're very hard to kill, but the primary purpose of a barbarian in regards to what their class is able to do, is to kill the enemy. That of an Immortal...is very different.

So I thank you kindly for your opinion, but I disagree absolutely and totally with it.


My main issue is that monster of a 1st level - if you just moved some of that stuff deeper into the class and put some modest prequisites on entry, it'd be much less of a "Why not?" selection and more a choice for those wishing to dedicate themselves to being truly durable.

Which is a big part of why the alignment restriction existed. Also part of why I've taken some of your advice in regards to pre-reqs. But there's a bigger point here - and it's one that really needs to be addressed.

You're making these assumptions from a character creation point of view. Now yes, that's fine and all. But when it comes right down to it, that's not what PrCs exist for. Hell, that's not what multi-classing exists for. Both of these things, interlinked as they might be, exist for the growth of the character that you have brought into being. And those choices are meant to fit the character over the player.

The class and level of a character are part of them and - yes - do in some way define them. But there is so much more to it. And I know you know that Selinia.

Regardless. I have fixed it as much as I feel ok with.

Selinia
2013-04-29, 02:04 AM
What-Ho. The great and terrible blight has come to an end! The New Age of GitP is upon us, and may it last long and bring much prosperity! In celebration of this glorious rebirth, I'm happy to announce I've got another batch of stuff just about ready to... including... hm, that's, odd...

...

It appears we are back, ladies and gentlemen! As stated, there is quite a metaphorical bundle in store for the next week or so. Updates of a unique flavor. The Light isn't all sunshine and rainbows, after all - however much some people would like you to believe otherwise, it is a terrible, terrible thing. What, after all, is more horrifying than the mortal heart?

Maybe a few things. But that's what we are here for, isn't it?

So kick back and relax - the Dire Radiance update is well underway.

Ehehehe.

vasharanpaladin
2013-04-29, 11:53 AM
The Light isn't all sunshine and rainbows ... What, after all, is more horrifying than the mortal heart?

...

So kick back and relax - the Dire Radiance update is well underway.

Ehehehe.

THE LIGHT, IT BURNS! :smalleek:

FallenEco
2013-04-30, 05:23 AM
Can't stop running, they never do.
Can't hide, they find everything.
Can't even cry, I need the water.
The light has no mercy, it burns all opposition...
Forgive me...

Sachiko-K
2013-04-30, 08:47 AM
Instant subscription. I will be watching this thread with expectation.

kestrel404
2013-04-30, 08:51 AM
Instant subscription. I will be watching this thread with expectation.

It's a good thread, but not much change to it.

Sachiko-K
2013-04-30, 09:31 AM
It's a good thread, but not much change to it.

Well, just in case, I will keep it in my subscriptions. If only because that way I can access it quickly!

Selinia
2013-05-01, 02:20 AM
Instant subscription. I will be watching this thread with expectation.

Glad you're enjoying it! Also, welcome to the forum, if nobody's said it already.


It's a good thread, but not much change to it.

I admit, my update schedule is rather sporadic. :smallfrown: Classes keep me busy pretty constantly, but I do try to get work in on this when I can. Hopefully at some point things will clear enough that I can get a measure of consistancy, but for now, I just take openings where I can get them.

Regardless! Changelog!

Added the Vile Blast Secondary Component! The seasons come and go, but the firelight of the Inferno stays lit through the ages. Brilliant at denying goody-two-shoes' the precious mercy their healing so relies upon. Or hey, turn it on some bad guys for the greater good - there's absolutely no way something so useful could ever corrupt your soul, right?
Added the Consumption Surge Foundation! Turns out that when you destabilize a shard of radiant power and slam it into someone's soul, it kind of messes them up. Something about 'too much of a good thing'. Who knew, right? The other side might trounce you today, but we'll see who's laughing when they're screaming their lungs out to a universe of withering, resplendent pain. It's you. You're the one laughing.
Added the Isolation Surge Foundation! You've heard of these things called 'friends'. You think maybe it is something you are supposed to eat? Whatever they are, they're not going to be helping the sorry soul you slam with this particular jinx.

Just a few tidbits at the moment, but there's a bit more right down the line.

Lix Lorn
2013-05-01, 03:32 PM
I liiiike these new components >:D

Selinia
2013-05-02, 03:11 AM
Redeemer of Nine


"So what do you say? Miracles and magic! Help those you love! Put wrongdoers somewhere they'll never escape! All you need to do is sign the contract, dear, and all this and more could be yours!"
-An infernal contractor, to a prospective Redeemer of Nine

For centuries uncounted, evokers have been in a thorn in the side of the accountants of Hell. Oh, sure, every now and then they could be useful, but as a whole the wielders of light tended to be too pristine to contaminate or too willful to entrust with the delicate mechanisms of corruption. Many devils saw simple extermination as the best answer to the evoker problem, while those with more stable dispositions merely sighed and prepared to write off their losses to infuriating redemption from the pure of heart, and obstinate competition from the wicked.

But of late, clever devils have stumbled upon an alternate answer to the age-old dilemma - one that is as fiendish in its simplicity as it is in its origins. Rather than oppose magical girls in their goals, these canny counters of souls proposed that errant evokers simply be enticed into using their powers to more 'productive' ends. When they next appeared to the magical girls of the world, these fiends did so not with smoke and flame, but with a suit, a smile, and an all-too-reasonable proposal: Collect the souls of the already-damned, and be rewarded with miraculous powers with which to do good in the mortal world.

The experiment was a rousing success. Those magical girls who accepted a contract hoping to redeem the powers of Hell itself soon found themselves among its fastest-growing and most profitable industries. Capable of snatching of wicked spirits that might otherwise have scattered across the less desirable planes of the cosmos, Redeemers of Nine tap valuable new sources of soulstuff, and they do it in a way that is extremely difficult for many of Hell's chronic problem-causers to intervene with a clear conscience. After all, they're only trying to help. Usually.


While the default assumption is that a redeemer of nine works on behalf of the fiendish fellows in the nine hells, it is quite simple to modify it for any number of potential patrons. Simple decide on a prerequisite feat, an appropriate Knowledge skill to be able to seek out such a pact in the first place, an alignment axis your would-be patron has a keen interest in exterminating, and a pair of bonus feats to grant along the way. For an amusing twist with a primarily-evil party, consider inverting the class entirely - a sort of celestial faustian bargain in which a wicked evoker is granted boons by a holy force for showing mercy to those she defeats.


Requirements
To become a redeemer of nine, you must fulfill the following criteria.
Skills: Knowledge 8 ranks
Feats: Devil's Favor (Fiendish Codex II, p 81.)
Illuminations: Must know at least one illumination with a mote cost of at least 5m

Entry isn't free, but it isn't exactly taxing either. Given that redeemers of nine, by definition, possess at least one pact with a devil of some description, you should definitely talk to your dungeon master about the nature of the arrangement. Remember that the Nine Hells are assumed to be actively recruiting potential redeemers, and that they tend to couch their offers in a more altruistic guise than those working to corrupt their charge directly.

While some patrons will offer Faustian Pacts (Fiendish Codex II, p 23.), most are happy to offer a prospective redeemer of nine a much simpler, more benign pact - the pact yields no real reward for the redeemer, and asks nothing of her beyond a pledge to join the ranks of the redeemers when she feels she is ready. While they are victims of infernal manipulation as much as any other to sign a pact with a devil, redeemers of nine are tools, not merchandise unto themselves. Keeping them content and productive is viewed as more important than overseeing their personal damnation - though rest assured, any infernal patron would veritably giggle with glee if a redeemer in their service were to fall into law and evil as a natural outcome of the systematic executions encouraged by the nature of their powers.


Class Skill List: Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge [History] (Int), Knowledge [Local] (Int), Knowledge [Religion] (Int), Knowledge [The Planes] (Int), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), Use Magical Device (Cha)
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier.

A redeemer of nine has quite the hearty skill list - those entering from Empath obviously won't be impressed, but for Champions and Stargazers, there's a fair few skills they might otherwise lack access to.

Redeemer of Nine
Hit Dice: d8



[th]Level
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Special
Illuminations


1st
+0
+0
+0
+2
Soul Gem, Detect Tyranny, Miracle Worker (2 Domains)
---


2nd
+1
+0
+0
+3

+1 level of existing class


3rd
+2
+1
+1
+3
Brand of the Nine Hells
+1 level of existing class


4th
+3
+1
+1
+4

+1 level of existing class


5th
+3
+1
+1
+4
Miracle Worker (3 Domains), Extra Imbuement
---


6th
+4
+2
+2
+5

+1 level of existing class


7th
+5
+2
+2
+5
Mark of the Master
+1 level of existing class


8th
+6
+2
+2
+6

+1 level of existing class


9th
+6
+3
+3
+6
Miracle Worker (4 Domains)
---


10th
+7
+3
+3
+7
Agent of the Nine
+1 level of existing class



Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A redeemer of nine gains no proficiency with any weapons or armor.

Not the world's most exciting chassis. With 7/10 illumination progression, medium BAB, and only one good save, you're really here for one reason, and it isn't the numbers on that table. Stargazers might appreciate the higher BAB, but it isn't going to make them combat superstars any time soon.

Illuminations: At each indicated level, a redeener of nine gains an increase in evoker level, illuminations known, illuminations readied, innate illuminations, and personas known as if they had gained a level in an illumination-using class to which they belonged before adding the prestige class level. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If she had more than one illumination-using class before becoming a redeemer of nine, she must decide to which class to add each level for the aforementioned purposes.

Radiant Armaments: At 5th level, the redeemer of nine increases her Imbuement limit by one.

Standard, low-end evoker feature progression. Not much to say here.

Soul Gem (Su): Upon entry into this class, the patrons of the redeemer of nine painlessly embed a small, brightly-colored gemstone into the skin somewhere on her body. Henceforth, the stone is effectively a part of her – it can only be removed with surgery, and will regenerate in 1d4 hours if it is taken from her in this manner. The soul gem of a redeemer of nine serves as a receptacle for the lives she takes in combat, compiling them neatly within its facets for later retrieval by the devils that crafted it.

Whenever a lawful or evil creature or a creature with the Law or Evil subtype dies within [10 * class level] feet of the redeemer of nine, or whenever she strikes the killing blow against such a creature regardless of distance, she may make an opposed Will save against the deceased entity (which uses its will save at the time of its death, including any modifiers it might have accrued). If the redeemer of nine loses this opposed roll, there is no further effect. If her target loses the roll, however, she draws its soul into her soul gem for later use. For every hit die of the newly reaped creature, the redeemer of nine’s soul gem gains a single soul point. The redeemer of nine’s soul gem is capable of holding up to [class level * 5] soul points at any given time – any HD over this limit are lost, and the redeemer is incapable of harvesting souls with a full soul gem. However, devils are no strangers to mutilating soulstuff, and if a soul would be too large to fit within a soul gem’s remaining storage space, it will happily vacuum up enough of a portion to top itself off. Even creatures without proper souls, such as constructs or many forms of undead, can be harvested with this ability - their animating essence is less useful to a devil than a 'real' soul, but it is useful enough to pay for nonetheless.

Due to its nature as a conduit, a soul gem has difficulty holding on to the individuals it consumes. As such, being harvested by this ability does not interfere with one’s ability to be raised from the dead – doing so simply yanks the harvested soul from wherever it has been sent. This resurrection-induced leakage is acknowledged and accounted for by the infernal clerks behind the operation, however, and mechanisms are in place to seamlessly reimburse a redeemer of nine’s soul gem of any soul points that might be filched from it without its bearer being any the wiser.

In a nutshell, the redeemer of nine runs on murder. She is potentially quite versatile and powerful, but if she doesn't regularly kill things and package their souls off to a comfy retirement amid eternal torment and hellfire, the class does very little for her. While redeemers don't have a formal code, you can bet that 'show no mercy' comes close, out of sheer pragmatism.

Detect Tyranny (Sp): At will, a redeemer of nine can use detect evil or detect law, as the spells.

You don't go countless centuries being bombarded by evildar without figuring out how to replicate it. Being the considerate fellows they are, a redeemer's patrons are sure to kit her out so she can ruthlessly harvest the proper kind of souls.

Miracle Worker (Sp): Even devils do not expect their minions to work for free, and the redeemer of nine is no exception to this perverse infernal ‘fairness’. In exchange for her loyal reaping of the damned, the wayward evoker is gifted with the capacity to perform miracles above and beyond the capabilities of any mere servant of the light. At 1st level, the redeemer of nine selects two clerical domains. By expending soul points equal to [spell level * 3], the she may cast any spell from the selected domain as a spell-like ability, so long as its spell level is no greater than her class level. Unlike normal spell-like abilities, the ones acquired through this ability retain any experience cost they might have. If the spell-like ability has an expensive material component, it must be supplied normally. Spell-like abilities never require a focus. Save DCs for these abilities are based on her evoker stat, and her effective caster level is equal to her evoker level, rather than her HD.

The redeemer of nine does not gain any other benefit from the domains she selects, such as their granted powers or the ability to take feats or prestige classes which have them as a prerequisites. At 5th level, and again at 9th level, the redeemer of nine may select an additional domain from which to purchase spells.

This. This is why you're playing a redeemer of nine. Despite an extremely limited 'spell list', and uses restricted by a need to recharge via murder, the fact remains that with well-picked domains, a redeemer of nine's miracles can be extremely potent. With all nine spell levels to work with, a clever redeemer of nine can bring tremendous utility and versatility to bear, augmenting their illuminations with just the right trick for the task at hand.

Brand of the Nine Hells: At 3rd level, the redeemer of nine gains Brand of the Nine Hells (Fiendish Codex II, p 81.) as a bonus feat, even if she would not normally meet its prerequisites. The brand is considered to be associated with whichever archdevil is most closely associated with the redeemer's patron, and by extension, the redeemer herself.

Mark of the Master: At 7th level, the redeemer of nine gains the Mark of Hell (Fiendish Codex II, p 84-85.) feat appropriate to her brand's associated archdevil as a bonus feat, even if she would not normally meet its prerequisites.

Who doesn't like bonus feats? Brand of the Nine Hells is not a stellar feat, but the Mark of Hell feats are, collectively, quite potent in their own ways. They also serve as a stark reminder of the toll of dealing with infernal powers. Like it or not, there's simply no way to channel the power of the hells in the volume that redeemers do and not be changed by it on some level. Obviously, simply having these feats isn't going to turn a good redeemer to evil, but they're certainly a nudge in that direction.

And for heaven's sake, have some pity on the poor girls who signed into a compact with Glasya or Baalzebul - their brands may be less insidious than some of their peers' but they're much grosser.

Agent of the Nine (Su): At 10th level, a redeemer of nine is no longer a mere servant of her employers – she is a valued and much-beloved tool, capable of regularly ensuring the sort of harvests which less adventurous pact-makers might require decades to cultivate. Her status as a favored disciple of whatever entity has contracted her powers is well-known in the Nine Hells, and her infernal patrons have imbued her with protections suitable for such a rare and precious investment.

Unless presented specific circumstances to the contrary, devils and other natives of the Nine Hells will generally possess an attitude of Indifferent towards the redeemer of nine and her immediate allies. While most will offer no direct aid to her, they will generally be happy to let her carry out her work in peace, and the redeemer may walk the cities of the Nine Hells as she pleases without fear of ambush around every corner.

Additionally, so long as the redeemer of nine possesses at least one soul point, her infernal patron will intercede to preserve her essence in the event of her death. Assuming she is not raised by other methods in this timeframe, her patron will restore her to life, as with the True Resurrection spell, 1d4 days after her demise. The evoker is brought to life on whichever layer of Hell her personal patron calls home, and while specifics of the arrangement vary, she will generally be offered a meal, a lecture, and a Plane Shift to a plane of her choosing. Each time this occurs, the redeemer of nine loses 30 soul points. If she does not possess that many soul points, her soul point total simply drops to a negative value – she must pay off this debt before beginning to accumulate soul points normally again.

Professional courtesy, now in class feature form. Aside from the potentially potent diplomatic recognition, the meat of this feature lies in a sort of conditional immortality. So long as the redeemer doesn't make a habit of it, her patrons are plenty willing to fudge the numbers and slide a useful piece back onto the board for minimal cost.

Sachiko-K
2013-05-02, 03:31 AM
It all makes sense now! The 'Alien race' Kyubey talked about are actually devils of the nine circles, and they use the souls of the magical girls they damn to fuel the dark engine that keeps the universe going!

NineThePuma
2013-05-02, 03:38 AM
Why am I being redeemed? :smallconfused:

Jokes aside, I love this idea. I need to find a GM that will let me run a Magical Girl.

sreservoir
2013-05-02, 04:56 PM
I wouldn't suppose it'd be necessary to have a soul to have the soul sucked out?

Selinia
2013-05-03, 02:17 AM
I wouldn't suppose it'd be necessary to have a soul to have the soul sucked out?

That would be correct - I've added a line to that effect in the class proper, for clarity's sake.

A bit late, but changelog for today:


Added the Redeemer of Nine Prestige Class! Infernal contracting for fun and profit - good, wholesome fun for the entire party. You know what they say about miracles: they happen all the time, and come with no strings attached!
Added the Carnage Barrier Foundation Component! Drawing strength from bloodshed is rather dire business, but it's hard to deny that any magical girl who enjoys a good scrap every now and then might find a use for this effect.
Added the Smiting Surge Shape component! With more negative surge effects than there used to be, there's room for an Imbue lookalike on the shape roster. It's still a bit niche compared to the utility of Bolts or the AoE of Pulses, but it has its uses.

vasharanpaladin
2013-05-03, 02:43 PM
Oooh, Vile blast component... am I the only one drooling over the idea of Green Sun Nimbus Flare as a standard attack in GSP-Nanoha's arsenal? :smalltongue:

Draken
2013-05-03, 03:04 PM
Oooh, Vile blast component... am I the only one drooling over the idea of Green Sun Nimbus Flare as a standard attack in GSP-Nanoha's arsenal? :smalltongue:

Consumption Surge exists explicitly to emulate Cold Fire Desolation Brand and Flare is the child of Magnanimous Warning Glyph.

Man. There is a lot of Malfeas here.

vasharanpaladin
2013-05-03, 03:55 PM
Consumption Surge exists explicitly to emulate Cold Fire Desolation Brand and Flare is the child of Magnanimous Warning Glyph.

Man. There is a lot of Malfeas here.

Ooh, didn't realize that! Malfean Champion archetype, go!

EDIT: Quickly, now! We need costume elements to pile together for Viridian Legend Exoskeleton and Devil Tyrant Avatar Shintai! And Vitriolic Corona Endowment!

Draken
2013-05-03, 04:58 PM
Ooh, didn't realize that! Malfean Champion archetype, go!

EDIT: Quickly, now! We need costume elements to pile together for Viridian Legend Exoskeleton

Think that just the costume qualifies.


and Devil Tyrant Avatar Shintai!

>>

I will finish that evoker/mutator prc one day.


And Vitriolic Corona Endowment!

Think the device qualifies here, again.

vasharanpaladin
2013-05-03, 04:59 PM
...Yeah, you might be right on Viridian Legend Exoskeleton and Vitriolic Corona Endowment. What's needed for Devil Tyrant Avatar is an effect to gain size categories for Heavy costumes. @_@

Draken
2013-05-03, 09:17 PM
So. Did I say there is too much Malfeas around? Oh yes, I did. Know what this class needs more of?

Ebon Dragon.


Night Devil


"With kindness comes naïveté. Courage becomes foolhardiness. And dedication has no reward. If you can't accept any of that, you are not fit to be a Magical Girl."
- Homura Akemi, a Night Devil

The world is dark and dreadful place. At every corner awaits something or someone who would enjoy nothing less than breaking the innocent should they be able to. It is the duty of heroes everywhere to stop these forces from commiting their crimes, but far too often they can't get there fast enough.

Worse yet is when these heroines find themselves in the shoes of victims. They are changed by their ordeals, and not always for the better, they don't always come out of it stronger nor more resolute.

Sometimes they just break.

Prerequisites:
To become a night devil, you must fulfill the following criteria.
Skills: Bluff, Diplomacy or Intimidate 13 ranks.
Illuminations: Evoker level 5th.
Special: The character must have lost her innocence in a rather cruel and horrible fashion.

HD: d8

Level BAB Fort Ref Will Features Illuminations
1 +0 +0 +2 +0 Benighted Eyes, Cruelty, Power of Hatred, Sneak Attack +1d6 -
2 +1 +0 +3 +0 Craven, Lying Shadow Feint +1 level of existing class
3 +2 +1 +3 +1 Brooding in Shackled Resent, Sneak Attack +2d6 +1 level of existing class
4 +3 +1 +4 +1 Cornered Shadow Strike +1 level of existing class
5 +3 +1 +4 +1 Hollow-Hearted Venom, Sneak Attack +3d6 -

Class Skills (8 + Int Modifier): Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (local) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha), and Use Rope (Dex).

This is the rogue skill list.

Proficiencies: The Night Devil gains no additional proficiencies.

Why is this stuff mandatory anyway?

Benighted Eyes (Su): It is a dreadful ordeal that turns any magical girl into a night devil. This pain, misery and loss of innocence that snuffed out the radiance within her soul is forever stamped into her glare.
At 1st level the night devil gains low-light vision and darkvision up to a maximum range of 60 feet. At 5th level, she becomes capable of seeing perfectly even in magical darkness.

Witness to Darkness.

Cruelty (Su): Night devils have felt the horrors the world has to offer in their own flesh and came off of it all too glad to share these pains. Whenever she deals sneak attack damage, the night devil gains a number of motes equal to the number of extra dice of damage rolled. These motes can exceed her maximum capacity and may be used like any other motes. If they are not used before the beginning of the night devil’s next turn, the motes are lost.

Selfishness is Power.

Power of Hatred (Ex): Night devils know friendship; they may even have kept their friends in spite of their ordeals, or worse, might have made them during those awful times. But making friends doesn’t come as easy for them anymore as it once did.
The night devil may use the same mechanics employed by the Power of Friendship to instill anger and discord in others. The night devil may elect to instill a deep hatred against an individual, group, nation, species or anything really, effectively changing her target’s attitude towards the chosen recipients to hostile, this choice is made when the attempts start, and attempting to change from this goal to the goal of altering the target’s alignment causes all accrued successes to be lost (the opposite is also true, with all successes being lost if she tries to change from altering alignment to instilling hatred).
As a final benefit, the night devil may use Bluff instead of diplomacy whenever she tries to modify the save DCs through persuasion.
It’s not all roses however, and her own feelings get in the way of attempts to use the Power of Friendship to change her target’s alignment. The night devil always suffers a Jaded penalty of at least +2 on her checks to change her target’s alignment, and these penalties stack twice as fast.

Golden years Tarnished Black.

Sneak Attack (Ex): This is exactly like the rogue ability of the same name. The extra damage dealt increases by +1d6 every other level (1st, 3rd and 5th). If a night devil gets a sneak attack bonus from another source the bonuses on damage stack.

Life-Blighting Emptyness Attack... Or, well. Just sneak attack.

Craven: At 2nd level, the night devil gains craven as a bonus feat. Should the night devil ever gain the The Meaning of Courage class feature, she draws from her reserves of self-preservation and resent instead of from her inner bravery, long sacrificed along with her innocence.

Uh... The craven feat? More LBEA.

Lying Shadow Feint (Su): Night devils detest losing, but they hate even more when others laugh at their failures. At 2nd level, whenever one of her illuminations fails to do it full effect (all targets succeed on their saves, the attack rolls miss, or bonuses to her armor class or saves do not result in success), the night devil can, as a free action, recover half of the motes spent on the illumination and add them to her mote pool until the beginning of her next turn.

Kill Feint Cleverness.

Brooding in Shackled Resent (Su): The night devil has been in bondage in the past, she’s been in some rough spots, she hates nothing more than to relive these times. Starting at 3rd level, as an immediate action, the night devil may attempt to break free of any mind-affecting effect, any effect that limits her movement and any effect that has altered her personality (such as uses of The Power of Friendship or Mindrape), rolling a new save, resisted skill check, grapple check or simply ending the effect outright if it did not allow any save in the first place. For every turn that that the night devil has spent in such bondage, she gains a cumulative +1 bonus on this attempt to break free, with a maximum bonus equal to her character level. If the night devil fails her check, the bonus is reset.
If the night devil successfully escapes her bonds with this ability, she gains a bonus on all attack and damage rolls against the creature responsible for the bondage equal to her class level for a number of rounds equal to the time she spent restrained.

Brooding Resentment Defense.

Cornered Shadow Strike (Su): Driven against a corner, a magical girl will steel herself and make her stand there. A night devil won’t, she will scream and trash and lash out against her aggressors. Starting at 4th level, whenever the night devil is at half of her maximum hit points or less, she may use any illumination as an immediate action, by spending an additional 4 motes on it, even if those motes would put the total expenditure over her evoker level.

Cornered Titan Desperation.

Hollow-Hearted Venom (Su): Only the most jaded soul achieves the heights of torment to unlock this power, this miserable girl can stain her hands and weapons with an ebon ichor oozing from the very wounds in her heart.
Starting at 5th level, the night devil can pay five motes as a free action to activate this ability. Her next attack that would deal extra sneak attack damage instead inflicts one negative level for every die of damage that would be dealt. Damage from her craven feat is still applied as normal.

Hollowing Echo Venom, Life-Denying Hate.

Lix Lorn
2013-05-03, 09:43 PM
Consumption Surge exists explicitly to emulate Cold Fire Desolation Brand and Flare is the child of Magnanimous Warning Glyph.

Man. There is a lot of Malfeas here.
ooooooh I hadn't even thought of this
MALFEAS IS BEST

vasharanpaladin
2013-05-03, 09:47 PM
...Dammit, Draken. I have enough problems when Xefas decides to deliberately translate Exalted. @_@

Sachiko-K
2013-05-03, 11:09 PM
Ebon Dragon Stuff

Okay, that's good and all... But do you know what this class really needs?

Adorjan.

Your mission, if you decide to accept it, is to put more Yandere in this class. I would do so myself, but I am too busy working on something very, very evil and very, very scary, and since my homebrewing experience is zero, it requires all of my attention to make sure that it is, at least, passable.

vasharanpaladin
2013-05-03, 11:10 PM
Okay, that's good and all... But do you know what this class really needs?

Theion


Ftfy. :smalltongue:

Lix Lorn
2013-05-04, 06:38 PM
Okay, that's good and all... But do you know what this class really needs?

Adorjan.

Your mission, if you decide to accept it, is to put more Yandere in this class. I would do so myself, but I am too busy working on something very, very evil and very, very scary, and since my homebrewing experience is zero, it requires all of my attention to make sure that it is, at least, passable.
Come back to me when my essays are in/a lost cause and I'll do PRC's and such for each yozi. =D

Sachiko-K
2013-05-05, 04:00 AM
I will gladly wait until the end of the world for such awesomeness to happen.

Amechra
2013-05-05, 05:38 AM
I want to see the Kimbery one.

Or, hell, Isodoros is totally a magical girl. Totally.

sreservoir
2013-05-05, 03:25 PM
... so if you make an effigy creature of yourself, and then magic jar into it, and then ... somehow make that permanent, I guess would need to be a thing.

hm how to

Selinia
2013-05-07, 01:00 AM
Yozis

There is a Cecelyne PrC in the works. Maybe a She Who Lives In Her Name one... eventually, but I won't be calling dibs on that one because it resided in the nebulous realm of "Maybe, eventually, at some point". The ball is in Draken's court with regards to mutagenic goodness, but from what I've seen of what he has so far, it ought to be good for Devil-Tyrant Shintai and then some.

At the moment though, I'm focusing on something a little different and non-yozi-related that I have been poking together for far too long. I'd say more, but I'm hoping to have it out tomorrow, so I think the surprise can wait a wee bit longer.

Also,

Night Devil Prestige Class added!

Of course, everyone knew that, but I feel compelled to put it in a little changelog bullet anyway to signify its transference to the front page.

vasharanpaladin
2013-05-07, 01:46 PM
Nonono, what we need now is Universe Emperor or Scintillant Messenger Shintai (http://forums.white-wolf.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=71173). A magical girl who channels the Empyreal Chaos, for the win. :smallamused:

EDIT: Okay, I'm on it. Give me a few hours, or a week or two. :smallbiggrin:

Selinia
2013-05-08, 01:49 AM
EDIT: Okay, I'm on it. Give me a few hours, or a week or two. :smallbiggrin:

The proper terminology is 'Soon'. In fact, whenever I give precise timetables for something, you can probably just assume I am inadvertently lying. Future Me is kind of bad about that, you shouldn't listen to her if you can help it.

Current Me, however, has a changelog!


Radiant Eruption Alternate Class Feature added!
Power of Friendship Alternate Class Feature added!
Luminous Spirit Alternate Class Feature added!


...now, you may notice something odd about these ACFs. Namely, they aren't for ToR classes! This is the start of a project (which will probably take quite some time) to create Evoker-themed Alternate Class Features for non-evoker classes. As proud as I am of the Empath, Stargazer, and Champion, they're only three classes - Evoker ACFs let other classes taste some of the flavor and core mechanics of the Tome of Radiance, without playing a full-blown evoker.

Here, the Radiant Eruption ACF trades out a barbarian's signature rampage of destruction for an equally-exhausting but somewhat more nuanced boost. A radiant eruption loses out in endurance and raw stopping power compared to its mundane cousin, but can more than make up for it with increased flexibility and versatility, and has enormous power in its own right if you manage to boost the barbarian with the right surges at the right times.

Bards are arguably the greatest face-men, persuaders, and diplomats in the entire system - and certainly they're the most iconic. While, like many casters, it is difficult to tinker with the core mechanics of the Bard (their power lies more in their subsystem than their class features), it is a simple thing for one to trade some of their famous powers of magical persuasion for a somewhat more insidious approach. Left to their own devices, a bard could potentially uplift (or corrupt :smalleek:) entire settlements with their performances - just don't expect the local authorities to take such 'social engineering' lying down for long!

Monks are... tough to tinker with, because they're so bad. ACFs are supposed to be balanced against what they're replacing, after all. A monk possessing a Luminous Spirit isn't going to be a powerhouse, but she possess a not-insignificant array of potent stances that scale neatly with her level. Potentially slipping into flight, DR, or other useful effects, a radiant monk has the potential to take on differing roles in the span of a single combat, while still holding true to the combat styles and signiture abilities that make the monk stand out.

I'm kind of experimenting all over the place with these ACFs, so comments and criticism are particularly welcome here.

NineThePuma
2013-05-08, 03:05 AM
I've grown bored, and so I'm taking some time out to build Naruto as a Magical Girl.

Why, you may ask? Because the other option was Megaman and Naruto is more hilarious to imagine in a dress declaring how in the name of Konoha, he will punish you!


I am curious to know if we'll be getting more Dark Magical Girl support in the near future. Other, of course, than just putting Evil on our character sheet.

Selinia
2013-05-08, 03:18 PM
I've grown bored, and so I'm taking some time out to build Naruto as a Magical Girl.

Why, you may ask? Because the other option was Megaman and Naruto is more hilarious to imagine in a dress declaring how in the name of Konoha, he will punish you!

I am curious to know if we'll be getting more Dark Magical Girl support in the near future. Other, of course, than just putting Evil on our character sheet.

I know next to nothing of that particular variety of ninjas, but from what I understand, the breadth of shenanigans the orange-suited gentleman and his compatriots are capable of is quite impressive.

As for dark magical girl materials, there is definitely more planned for them! I tend to bounce around from theme to theme (mostly because I get bogged down and unproductive if I let myself get roadblocked by a problem putting something together), but there is quite a bit of content at some stage of development for jaded/amoral/outright evil evokers. I'm tossing things out as I finish them, more or less, though I do make an effort to try and hit subjects people are interested in.

NineThePuma
2013-05-08, 03:55 PM
Well, the last time Dark Magical Girls came up was on page 2, though I'll admit that the Dire Radiance Update and related features has sort of been in favor of Dark Magical Girls.

Draken
2013-05-08, 07:49 PM
Dark Magical Girls are the whole point of the Night Devil, Puma. =|

vasharanpaladin
2013-05-08, 08:10 PM
The proper terminology is 'Soon'. In fact, whenever I give precise timetables for something, you can probably just assume I am inadvertently lying. Future Me is kind of bad about that, you shouldn't listen to her if you can help it.

To be fair, I usually am pretty good about getting things done with a deadline. Most of my issue here will be finding appropriate prerequisites for the path from "Sankt Kaiser" to "Rightful Sovereign of All That Exists." :smallbiggrin:

Lix Lorn
2013-05-08, 09:38 PM
I would like to play a radiant barbarian. This would be fun.

My essays are done. It's 3am. PrCs will come.
MALFEAS IS BEST.

NineThePuma
2013-05-08, 09:50 PM
Dark Magical Girls are the whole point of the Night Devil, Puma. =|

With all due respect, it looked like it was a random Exalted Inspired thing, and as a general rule, I find Exalted Inspired Stuff to be boring and uninteresting, and my usual GMs disallow such content anyway. I didn't even read the class, because I'm not going to be using it, my GMs wouldn't let me use it if I wanted it, and those two combined to make me prone to not consider it part of the core project.

vasharanpaladin
2013-05-08, 09:54 PM
With all due respect, it looked like it was a random Exalted Inspired thing, and as a general rule, I find Exalted Inspired Stuff to be boring and uninteresting, and my usual GMs disallow such content anyway. I didn't even read the class, because I'm not going to be using it, my GMs wouldn't let me use it if I wanted it, and those two combined to make me prone to not consider it part of the core project.

Bad news, then: It's got a link on the front page and thus IS part of the core project, no matter how much you wish otherwise. :smalltongue:

NineThePuma
2013-05-08, 10:42 PM
Which doesn't touch on ANY OTHER ASPECT OF MY POST.

AuraTwilight
2013-05-08, 10:54 PM
I don't think you really get to complain if, by your own admission, you didn't even read the class. The only thing really "Exalted" about it is the names of abilities and such, for the sake of making references to a game that's already chock full of MG/anime references. If you don't like the Exalted-ness just change the damn names and references and move on.

Regalus
2013-05-08, 11:15 PM
So what you're saying is that, regardless of its thematic, regardless of its mechanics, or if its even balanced or not. Heck regardless of whether it may or may not be a well written idea. The mere fact that he stated that some of the names of its abilities were inspired by exalted automatically means it's not worth your time? :/

I mean, the class proper doesn't reference or mention any sort of terminology tied to exalt itself.

If I sound rude, I sincerely apologize. It's not my intention. I am merely curious how one could develop such a strong aversion to the mere thought that something was inspired by another source; that you won't even give it a look. That is, were the references to Exalted charms removed from the developer boxes; would it suddenly become kosher? Had he never mentioned that it had abilities inspired by Exalted content, would you have at least given it a curious look as a possible option for Dark Magical girls?

Also, I think Vash meant to say that if Selina gave it her okay, then maybe it might be worth giving a look and you shouldn't be so quick to dismiss it. After all, if you never look into the spoiler tags you won't bump into anything tying it directly to its inspiration. And in the end, names can always be changed.

By the way, when you say 'such content' do you mean homebrew in general, just stuff inspired from other sources, or Exalted in particular? Just curious.

vasharanpaladin
2013-05-08, 11:20 PM
Also, I think Vash meant to say that if Selina gave it her okay, then maybe it might be worth giving a look and you shouldn't be so quick to dismiss it.

Suuuure, let's go with that. :smallwink:

NineThePuma
2013-05-08, 11:44 PM
By the way, when you say 'such content' do you mean homebrew in general, just stuff inspired from other sources, or Exalted in particular? Just curious.

Exalted stuff. It's more his issue than mine (I just find Exalted to be not to taste) but he has this raving hatred of anything touched by Exalted. I got a homebrew project (specifically Jarian's League of Legends based Prestige Classes) banned from the table because evelynn happens to have a symbol on her forehead that vaguely resembles a thing from Exalted.

Regalus
2013-05-08, 11:47 PM
I wow...that's stupidly harsh! You have my sympathies Nine.

NineThePuma
2013-05-08, 11:52 PM
Hence why I'm not bothering with something I can't use, and am only providing print outs of what I can.

Selinia
2013-05-09, 02:45 AM
I have to say here - the Night Devil is probably one of the closest things the Tome of Radiance will see to the old Dark Magical Girl. It's a jaded, world-weary warrior who turns her shattered innocence into a powerful weapon. Heck, it uses the same quote as the old DMG. True, it is mechanically more roguelike than barbarianlike, but the mechanical functionality of the original DMG is really perfectly able to be mirrored by a Champion with a few surges. Or for that matter, a Radiant Eruption barbarian now.

If you're looking for the emotional suppression aspect of the class, which is the one thing the Night Devil really lacks (it's more focused on lashing out than bottling up) I'm currently working on the Apostle of Emptiness, which is more or less the emotionless girl archetype in PrC form. Is there anything specific you'd be looking for in terms of "Dark Magical Girl Material"? If you have thoughts on specific fluff or mechanical elements of the archetype you'd like to see, I'd love to hear them.

In any case, I'm not sure what to say with regards to your DM - best I can offer is that if he considered the Tome of Radiance to be good material, I have given the Night Devil my official stamp of approval. It's a class with solid fluff and fun, fitting crunch, and the fact that it borrows a few concepts from a thematically-appropriate Exalted villain's moveset doesn't change that.

Sorry if this post is a bit scatterbrained, I'm tired. :smallsigh:

Qwertystop
2013-05-09, 06:52 AM
Maybe remove the Exalted inspiration explanations from the spoilers in the PRC? I mean, without those it works fine as non-Exalted-inspired.

vasharanpaladin
2013-05-09, 02:17 PM
Exalted stuff. It's more his issue than mine (I just find Exalted to be not to taste) but he has this raving hatred of anything touched by Exalted. I got a homebrew project (specifically Jarian's League of Legends based Prestige Classes) banned from the table because evelynn happens to have a symbol on her forehead that vaguely resembles a thing from Exalted.

Kneejerk response: You need a new DM. Now, if not sooner. :smalleek:

Marginally more sociable response: Do I even want to know whence this raving hatred of Exalted? I mean, I can understand general indifference such as yours, but banning something solely because a picture was used that included a thing that Exalted also happens to use sometimes? He does know that Exalted does not have a monopoly on forehead marks, right? :smalleek:

caledscratcher
2013-05-10, 11:44 AM
Alright, I took in the critique, so here’s the revamped version of that PrC!


Ferzian Slave

"I may be a master, but my master is greater than I. She is why I live, and why I love."
- Quinn Morris, just before the slaying of her master’s rival.

There are many who wield light, and many from diverse backgrounds. As such, it is not unheard of for a magical girl to have been enslaved at the point in time when she realized her power. However, what is rare is for such a girl to use her new power to aid that which traps her.

Those evokers who remain loyal despite their great quantities of new power are frequently promoted to greater positions, and are frequently put in charge of the mundane slaves. Those who do as such can become a great leader, strong and commanding, yet subservient to any greater than her.

And in the supposed darkness of slavery, she sees nothing but light, for her master has always shone in her eyes.

And that’s how the master likes it.

Requirements
To become a Ferzian Slave you must fulfill the following criteria:
Feat: Craft Soulbond, Leadership
Skills: 3 Ranks Diplomacy, 3 Ranks Intimidate.
Special: Evoker Level 5th, Must be in a position of willing servitude to another individual

Level six entry requiring two feats, some skills, and a much easier to accomplish roleplay requirement.

Class Skill List: Climb (STR), Craft (Restraints) (INT), Gather Information (CHA), Handle Animal (CHA), Intimidate (CHA), Knowledge (Royalty and Nobility) (INT), Listen (WIS), Profession (Any) (WIS), Sense Motive (CHA), Search (INT), Spot (WIS), Survival (WIS), Swim (STR)

Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

A bunch of things for talking with and hunting down those she is in charge of, some Knowledge (Royalty and Nobility) so as to know as much about her master as possible, and a couple other things that fit.



Ferzian Slave
Hit Dice: d6

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Illuminations

1st|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+2|Enhanced Weaving, Slavemaster’s Loyalty|

2nd|
+2|
+0|
+0|
+3|Queen’s Mob|
+1 level of existing class

3rd|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+3|Tactician’s Eye|

4th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+4||
+1 level of existing class|

5th|
+4|
+1|
+1|
+4|General’s Hide|
+1 level of existing class

6th|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+5||
+1 level of existing class

7th|
+5|
+2|
+2|
+5|Strategist’s Edge|
+1 level of existing class

8th|
+6|
+3|
+3|
+6||

9th|
+6|
+3|
+3|
+6|Vizier’s Inspiration|
+1 level of existing class

10th|
+7|
+3|
+3|
+7|Hearts on a Lattice Can Never Die|[/table]

Pretty good chassis. Decent BAB, good Will, with 6/10 Evoker Progression.

Illuminations: A Ferzian Slave loses only a fraction of her power as an Evoker, mainly due to the fact that she constantly serves a source of light that only she can see. A Ferzian Slave continues to progress access to Illuminations from her Evoking Class, as well as her Evoker Level, as shown. If she has more than one Evoking Class, then she must choose one of them when she takes her first level in Ferzian Slave. Once made, this choice cannot be changed.

Fluff-turned Crunch: she finds light in her master, she lives according to her master’s whim, she gets good evoking.

Remembered Weaving (Ex): A Ferzian Slave is always able to call upon the might of a costume, even if her master thinks that the flashiness is too much, so it will progress, although as what it once was.

A Ferzian Slave gains additional costume elements as if her levels in Slave were levels in her previous evoking class.

Have you ever seen a Slave in a frickin’ awesome costume? …Don’t answer that. Point is, they progress as normal.

Slavemaster’s Loyalty: A Slave has been trained to obey, and even if she wishes to rebel, her servile nature makes such a feat difficult. The Slave must make a Will Save with a DC of (10 + ½ command-giver’s HD + command-giver’s CHA modifier) to refuse any direct command from a superior.

Yep, I basically copy-pasted what Selinia suggested I use for this. uwu

Queen’s Mob: Even Slaves must have those beneath them, and those of Ferz are no exception. And yet, these animalian servants are much more: they are trusted allies, soldiers with which her life is trusted in, teammates whose souls link to her own.

At 2nd level, the Slave gains an Animal Companion from the Druid’s Animal Companion list, treating her Druid level as one-third (rounded down) of her Evoker level. The Animal Companion is a completely normal specimen of its species, with the exception that it has the Craft Soulbond Feat, applied between it, the Slave, and one individual that the Slave has crafted a Soulbond with. At 6th level, and again at 10th level, the Slave gains an additional Animal Familiar with the same core set-up.

WAY scaled down, much more manageable, no longer a mote sink. :3

Tactician’s Eye (Ex): She was given power for a reason, and tactics are inherently important to those Slaves on the path of Ferz. However, to observe and strike is much easier when one has an extra pair of eyes! As such, the light of her master’s knowledge and her servants’ instincts grants military might that few can believe.

At 3rd level, when adjacent to a creature with whom she has crafted a Soulbond with, The Slave gains a +1 bonus to attack rolls. Every additional creature she has crafted a Soulbond with and is adjacent to her gives a stacking +1 bonus.

Haha, I had FUN with this one. Crowd around your best Slavebro and she gets even more powerful!

General’s Hide (Ex): As she grows in power, she begins to change, not just mentally, but also physically. While a player, she will always be a pawn, and the light of her superior will never let her forget that. She slowly begins to grow a shell of amber over her flesh, protecting her from those who would seek to deprive her lord of a masterful pawn. And yet, her master will inevitably need a shield, and that shell of amber that grows mighty in her lord’s presence can protect that which provides it, too!

When within 25 feet of any non-animal that she has crafted a Soulbond with, the Slave gains a +1 natural armor bonus to AC. For every 10 feet closer than 25 feet the Slave and that whom she has a Soulbond with, the bonus increases by +1. Furthermore, as long as she is within 10 feet of the aforementioned Soulbonded individual, the Slave may take an immediate action to give up the AC bonus granted by this class feature to give the same bonus to that individual.

The biggest piece that I took from the Baikan. Sorry, the concept of turning people into literal chess pieces was too important and cool for me to ignore, haha.

Strategist’s Edge (Ex): While hitting a foe is a great deal of importance, there are many things that will prevent a Slave from showing her full potential. And yet, when she wields her weapon with skill and motivation, and more importantly, light, she can cut through any defenses that would halt her master’s plans.

At 7th level, the Ferzian Slave ignores an amount of Damage Resistance equal to her Evoker Stat Modifier. Additionally, if she achieves a critical hit on a foe with Damage Resistance, they lose all Damage Resistance for a number of rounds equal to the Slave’s Evoker Stat Modifier.

This one if pretty strong, I like to think, especially when the Slave has the Precise Enhanced Armaments Effect. However, for 12th level, I don’t think it’s strong to the point of being unbalanced... (remains as is)

Vizier’s Inspiration (Ex): None know the power of an encouraging yell more than a Slave, and one of the Ferzian persuasion has mastered such a power herself. Screaming encouragement - or discouragement - at the tops of her lungs, she can change the tide of battle without lifting a finger. But she is just as much a slave as any other, and if her master is not present, she doesn’t get those encouraging words. But that’s where passion steps in, and that’s where her power shines.

At 9th level, at will, as a standard action, the Ferzian Slave may grant a +2 morale bonus to AC, attack rolls, and damage rolls to all allies that can hear her. Alternatively, she may grant a -2 morale penalty to AC, attack rolls, and damage rolls to all enemies that can hear her. Additionally, when she uses this ability, the Slave herself gains a +1 bonus to AC, attack rolls, and damage rolls, and her critical threat range expands by 1. All of these modifiers last for a number of rounds equal to her Evoker Stat Modifer.

This one is based on the old stereotype of a slavemaster yelling at his/her servants to motivate them, even though he/she is a slave him/herself. I then thought about how a boss sits back and orders people around, and how a leader gets in and works as well. Yep. uvu (Kept it as is!)

Hearts on a Lattice Can Never Die (Su): A Slave’s master, although he might not admit it, truly cares for her. And the allies she has made care just as much, if not more. So if a Slave were to fall - whether to disease or dagger - grief would be distinctly overwhelming. But, the light from within her will always show the truest tactic: the instructions for a dangerous ritual, which would revive her at a cost, shine upon her flesh. With tears and blood, tied together with unmistakable light, a Slave’s legacy need not fade to memory, and need not end.

If the Slave ever dies while a creature who she has crafted a Soulbond with - and was not provided by this class - still lives, said Soulbonded individual can perform a special ritual to bring the Slave back to life. Said ritual takes 2d4+1 hours, and the person performing the ritual takes 4d3 Constitution damage, which can only be healed after 2d6+1 days. If multiple qualifying individuals perform the ritual, the Constitution erasure is split between them in a way that they decide upon. When she is revived, the Slave takes 3 ability damage to all ability scores, which can be healed as normal ability damage after 1d3+1 days.

Reviving a 15th level character at the cost of large Constitution damage, but can be split between individuals? Seems pretty balanced to me!~

Moonwolf727
2013-05-10, 12:06 PM
{table]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Illuminations

1st|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+2|Enhanced Weaving, Gleaming Costume, Slavemaster’s Loyalty|

2nd|
+2|
+0|
+0|
+3||
+1 level of existing class

3rd|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+3|Tactician’s Eye|
+1 level of existing class

4th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+4||
+1 level of existing class|

5th|
+4|
+1|
+1|
+4|General’s Hide|
+1 level of existing class

6th|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+5||
+1 level of existing class

7th|
+5|
+2|
+2|
+5|Strategist’s Edge|
+1 level of existing class

8th|
+6|
+3|
+3|
+6||
+1 level of existing class

9th|
+6|
+3|
+3|
+6|Vizier’s Inspiration|
+1 level of existing class

10th|
+7|
+3|
+3|
+7|Enslaved Heart|[/table]

Fixed that table for you, you forgot to put [/table] on the end :smalltongue:

caledscratcher
2013-05-10, 02:09 PM
Holy carp, thank you so much! I'm notoriously bad at formatting, heh. So, any thoughts?

Lix Lorn
2013-05-10, 07:23 PM
Well, if you'll forgive my bluntness, it's a little bland. It has three 'Add stat to X' abilities and then a spell-like ability. While these are powerful, they're just not really interesting. A PrC, ideally, should do something you can't get another way, some fancy unique trick.

I also really, really dislike alignment prerequisites, even on paladins, but you're not the only one in this thread to disagree with me. :P

Selinia
2013-05-11, 04:50 AM
Right then. A bit sleepy right now, but going to give the best analysis I can. Have to say I like the concept thematically, but like Lix Lorn said, the crunch could use a bit of special spice to it, and there are a couple other issues to hit. Going to try and take this apart bit by bit, so:



Ferzian Slave

Requirements
To become a Ferzian Slave you must fulfill the following criteria:
Feat: Craft Soulbond
Ability Score: Charisma 16
Special: Evoker Level 6th, Must be enslaved/have been enslaved yet be in/have been in a position of power amongst slaves.

One thing that gets me here is how very, very specific the 'special' line is. It's an extremely narrow scenario, making all sorts of convoluted shenanigans required for someone to qualify. Personally, I would change the special line to "Must be in a position of willing servitude to another individual" - that opens the class to the fanatical bodyguard, the paladin sworn to slay all who oppose the master of her holy order, or the like. If you really want to keep the 'position of power' requirement (I don't really think it is necessary, myself), add Leadership as a required feat.

A smaller note, but I can't say I like Charisma as a prerequisite. Ability score pre-reqs for PrCs, though I'm sure they've been done somewhere, just don't jive well with me, partially because it makes this a Champion-only PrC when it seems meant for any evoker. If you're looking for a requirement of 'pretty and good at exerting one's presence', consider requiring ranks in Diplomacy or Intimidate instead - skills make excellent pre-reqs.

Lastly, I'd drop the entry level back down to 6th, just because there isn't really any reason to make it higher with this class that I can see, and starting at the standard PrC entry level just keeps things neater.


Class Skill List: Climb (STR), Craft (Restraints) (INT), Gather Information (CHA), Handle Animal (CHA), Intimidate (CHA), Knowledge (Royalty and Nobility) (INT), Listen (WIS), Profession (Any) (WIS), Sense Motive (CHA), Search (INT), Spot (WIS), Survival (WIS), Swim (STR)

Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Ferzian Slave
Hit Dice: d6

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Illuminations

1st|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+2|Enhanced Weaving, Gleaming Costume, Slavemaster’s Loyalty|

2nd|
+2|
+0|
+0|
+3||
+1 level of existing class

3rd|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+3|Tactician’s Eye|
+1 level of existing class

4th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+4||
+1 level of existing class|

5th|
+4|
+1|
+1|
+4|General’s Hide|
+1 level of existing class

6th|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+5||
+1 level of existing class

7th|
+5|
+2|
+2|
+5|Strategist’s Edge|
+1 level of existing class

8th|
+6|
+3|
+3|
+6||
+1 level of existing class

9th|
+6|
+3|
+3|
+6|Vizier’s Inspiration|
+1 level of existing class

10th|
+7|
+3|
+3|
+7|Enslaved Heart|[/table]

Yep. That's a chassis.



Remembered Weaving (Ex): A Ferzian Slave is always able to call upon the might of a costume, even if her master thinks that the flashiness is too much, so it will progress, although as what it once was.

A Ferzian Slave gains additional costume elements as if her levels in Slave were levels in her previous evoking class.

Not everyone is doing it the same way so it isn't a huge deal, but I prefer costume elements to be "ToB Style" - which is to say, you gain max element increases at fixed levels (look to the Valkyrie for an example).



Gleaming Costume: Even Slaves must have those beneath them, and those of Ferz are no exception. Her costume finds a way to give her an army, in the form of animals that flock to her and obey her every whim, as if she was a fairy-tale princess. But she is not, and will never be, such a thing. She is a slave, and that’s how she likes it.

At 1st level, a Ferzian Slave gains a special costume effect that is always active and gained in addition to all others. Furthermore, she automatically has (class level) motes invested into it, without lowering her mote pool and bypassing normal investment limits.

Effect: Gains an animal familiar from the Druid familiar list, treating half her Evoker level (rounded down) as her Druid level for what animal can be selected. The familiar is a normal specimen for that type of animal, its only special trait being the “Craft Soulbond” Feat, which is automatically applied between it and the Slave. It is completely loyal to the Slave.
Essence Boost: For every 2m invested in this Costume feature, the Slave can gain an additional familiar with her Druid level treated as one-third of her Evoker level (rounded down). Each familirar is completely normal for that type of animal, its only special trait being the “Craft Soulbond” Feat, which is automatically applied between it and the Slave. They are all completely loyal to the Slave.
Cartridge Boost: All familiars granted by this Costume Effect gain one Soulbond Feat that the Slave meets the prerequisites for but does not possess, for a duration of [Evoker Stat Modifier] rounds.

A few things here:

One, while they're a neat trick for some classes, I can't say I'm fond of the 'bonus costume element' class feature that has cropped up quote a bit - for one reason. Namely, it is a class feature that requires you to do less. Evokers are starved for motes, and adding in additional mote sinks doesn't tend to do them any favors. To anyone considering making a class feature in this model, I won't say it is always a bad idea, but strongly consider whether it would be better off as a simple scaling passive ability without mote investment. As a good rule of thumb, if something is useful in pretty much every fight, it might make a good passive.

More specifically on this ability, my first reaction was admittedly ohgodsquirrelrush, it has a couple issues. The most minor of them is that there is to my knowledge no such thing as a Druid Familiar (barring the Urban Companion ACF) - druids have Animal Companions.
Somewhat more major is that I think you are underestimating the power of animal companions. Keep in mind, the ranger gets one half-level animal companion - the Slave here could potentially have as many as fifteen following her around! That's impractical to manage at the game table and would shatter into pieces if the slave got her hands on any sort of group-buffing capabilities. Frankly, I have no clue how to balance this without turning the class into a dedicated summoner.


Slavemaster’s Loyalty: As a slave, this Evoker is inherently loyal, and to defy authority is to refuse her position and her power. If the Ferzian Slave ever refuses a direct order from a superior, she loses all class features for 1d3+1 hours.

Interesting, but given the nature of the bond in question, I'd make this a compulsion, not a punishment. A slave can't 'fall', but she needs to make a Will save (based on the HD and Cha mod of her master) to refuse any direct order from them. The class is monomania incarnate - lesser officers may be in charge, but I doubt the Slave is going to have the same sort of fanatical loyalty to people who are doing little more than standing between her and her master.



Tactician’s Eye (Ex): She was given power for a reason, and tactics are inherently important to those Slaves on the path of Ferz. After all, to command an army is to see what is weakest and what is strongest amongst your foes. And that vision of weakness is oftentimes the key to victory.

At 3rd level, the Slave gains an insight bonus to attack rolls equal to her Evoker Stat Modifier.

Needs a lift-up to something a bit more unique. X to Y is both breakable and bland, and it encourages a class to just dump everything in their evoker stat. Extreme SAD is just as much a design problem as MAD is, just in the other direction.


General’s Hide (Ex): As she grows in power, she begins to change, not just mentally, but also physically. While a player, she will always be a pawn, and the light of her superior will never let her forget that. She slowly begins to grow a shell of amber over her flesh, protecting her from those who would seek to deprive her lord of a masterful pawn.

At 5th level, the Ferzian Slave gains a natural armor bonus to AC equal to her Evoker Stat Modifier.

See above. I do love the imagery though.


Strategist’s Edge (Ex): While hitting a foe is a great deal of importance, there are many things that will prevent a Slave from showing her full potential. And yet, when she wields her weapon with skill and motivation, and more importantly, light, she can cut through any defenses that would halt her master’s plans.

At 7th level, the Ferzian Slave ignores an amount of Damage Resistance equal to her Evoker Stat Modifier. Additionally, if she achieves a critical hit on a foe with Damage Resistance, they lose all Damage Resistance for a number of rounds equal to the Slave’s Evoker Stat Modifier.

This is interesting - a bit situational (DR that a well-equipped PC can't overcome isn't terribly common), but useful when it comes up, and a nice approach to teamwide damage-boosting. I genuinely like this, one of the class's better-designed features.


Vizier’s Inspiration (Ex): None know the power of an encouraging yell more than a Slave, and one of the Ferzian persuasion has mastered such a power herself. Screaming encouragement - or discouragement - at the tops of her lungs, she can change the tide of battle without lifting a finger. But she is just as much a slave as any other, and if her master is not present, she doesn’t get those encouraging words. But that’s where passion steps in, and that’s where her power shines.

At 9th level, as a standard action a number of times per day equal to her Evoker Stat Modifier, the Ferzian Slave may grant a +2 morale bonus to AC, attack rolls, and damage rolls to all allies that can hear her. Alternatively, she may grant a -2 morale penalty to AC, attack rolls, and damage rolls to all enemies that can hear her. Additionally, when she uses this ability, the Slave herself gains a +1 bonus to AC, attack rolls, and damage rolls, and her critical threat range expands by 1. All of these modifiers last for a number of rounds equal to her Evoker Stat Modifer.

I also like this! The only thing I might add - make it at-will. It is a standard action buff, making it inherently situational to begin with. No need to make people worry about running out of something like that. Also, you need a notation regarding how the crit range expansion stacks (or doesn't stack) with other crit range expansion.


Enslaved Heart (Sp): Every slave, even those who are proud of their position, desires someone who feels the same. And sometimes, having slaves of your own just doesn’t cut it. No, you need to be able to control all who surround you, force them to obey, remove their humanity as yours was removed so long ago. And while light is free, it can hold those who defy it in a prison for just that purpose.

At 10th level, the Ferzian Slave can, as a full-round action a number of times per day equal to her Evoker Stat Modifer, cast Hold Person, Mass as a spell-like ability, with her Caster level treated as half her Evoker level. However, she may expend motes to increase the power of this ability: for every 2m spent on this ability, the radius of effect increases by 5 feet.

Gonna be blunt here - this is a genuine true-blue mass save-or-lose, and I dislike it purely for that. Fire or six times a day, the character just shrugs and trivializes an encounter (if the dice are working reasonably in her favor). It's effective, but when it works it makes combats just not happen. Casters can do it at times, yeah, but that doesn't make it any less annoying for the DM or the other players who just got flinched out of a combat encounter.

* * * * * * * * *

Overall, like I said - interesting concept, needs some work before I feel comfortable putting it up front. A suggestion a might toss out - for a class based around servitude, there is remarkably little to do with one's master in the crunch side. Bear in mind, if a character has crafted a soulbond to their master, that master is probably going to play a pretty huge part in their personal plotline! Soulbond characters tend to be cohorts, tagalong NPCs, or even other PCs, so I wouldn't be afraid to include some features to synergize with (or sacrifice for) the master.

Anyway, again, sleepy. Hope that came out all right.

NineThePuma
2013-05-14, 07:26 AM
Editing any changes to your PrC into the original post that it was in. It makes it much easier to keep track of and reduces clutter in the thread.

caledscratcher
2013-05-15, 08:45 AM
Augh holy carp sorry! It slipped my mind and then I lost computer privileges for a day so I couldn't fix it till JUST NOW.

But yeah it's fixed now~

NineThePuma
2013-05-15, 09:51 AM
It's all good. Honestly, it was just advice for future reference.

Lix Lorn
2013-05-15, 02:21 PM
Future reference to make it easier to reference, in the future.
:3

caledscratcher
2013-05-16, 12:47 AM
OK, so I had an idea for a spellshaping/radiance PrCt so i built it and it’s probably not very good, but it was a fun way to pass the time! I also realized that there was one thing that I had put in that I had never seen in any Evoking PrC, even though it seemed like a relatively obvious type of thing that could be put in - and hell - centered around!

So yeah, concrit would be super helpful!


Lightning Rook
”Walls need not sit still. A shield need not be held. Lightning does none of what either is expected to do, yet it’s gleam is fearsome, it’s speed is brilliant, and it’s might is unmistakable. Thus, a fortress of storms is truly the awesomest power imaginable!” - Katherine Werd, explaining why she became a Lightning Rook to an uneducated peasant.

Some who trek the formulaic path can discover the strength of light within their own power, although not all who find such find it amidst unrefined light, as so many do. Some of these shapers begin to adventure into the realms of radiance, all whilst searching for the light which defined this choice.

And in those who fit such a description, there are those whose passion to protect is unmistakable. Those who wield both formulae and illuminations, alongside their bodies, as shields for those who need the mighty in order to survive.

Those admirable few will almost always discover - or in some cases, personally imagine - the power of a Lightning Rook. And those few are shields to all, breathing bastions of unmistakable speed, stormful citadels that rock the existence of any who dare make threats, and kind keeps whose power stems from pure passion.

Requirements:
To become a lightning rook, you must fulfill the following criteria:
Feats: Ride-By Attack
Special: Must know at least one 2nd-level formula and at least two 1st-level formulae from the Shocking Current Circle.
Special: Must know at least one blast Illumination with the Prism Component.
Special: Must know at least one barrier Illumination with a mote cost of at least 3m.

The only thing I feel needs explaining is the Feat. Basically, when you’re centered around going fast and dealing a bunch of damage, you’re gonna need to be able to smash through things while still going fast.

Class Skill List:
Balance (DEX), Concentration (CON), Craft (INT), Handle Animal (CHA), Knowledge (Arcana) (INT), Knowledge (History) (INT), Knowledge (Local) (INT), Listen (WIS), Professional (WIS), Ride (DEX), Search (INT), Spellcraft (INT), Spot (WIS), Survival (WIS)

[spoilr]A relatively big skill list, mainly featuring things that would naturally fit a Shaper/Evoker with a Mount. :3[/spoiler]

Hit Dice: d12
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Illuminations|Shaping
1st|+0|+2|+2|+0|A Shield When Needed, Anchored Barrier|+1 level of existing class|
---
2nd|+1|+3|+3|+0|Enhanced Armaments, Spellshape Shield|
---|+1 level of existing class
3rd|+2|+3|+3|+1|Darting Fortress (+1 FFS)|+1 level of existing class|
---
4th|+3|+4|+4|+1||
---|+1 level of existing class
5th|+3|+4|+4|+1|Storming Citadel (DR 3, IR/FR 10)|+1 level of existing class|+1 level of existing class
6th|+4|+5|+5|+2|Enhanced Armaments, Darting Fortress (+1 FFS/Other’s Turn)|+1 level of existing class|+1 level of existing class
7th|+5|+5|+5|+2|Costume Elements|
---|+1 level of existing class
8th|+6|+6|+6|+2|Bonus Evoking Specialty|+1 level of existing class|
---
9th|+6|+6|+6|+3|Darting Fortress (+2 FFS, +2 FFS/Other’s Turn)|
---|+1 level of existing class
10th|+7|+7|+7|+3|Storming Citadel (DR 7, IR/FR 22), Queen of Two Castles|
---|
---[/table]

Hoo, that took a while to type up. 6/10 progression of Illuminations AND Shaping, good FORT and REF, Quite a few class features, along with a Cartridge/Complex Formula/Persona Capacity thing. Overall, I think that it might be a bit too strong of a chassis, but that’s why I’m looking for the concrit!

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: The rook ains proficiency in light and medium armor and all shields (except tower shields).

Illuminations: At each indicated level, a lightning rook gains an increase in evoker level, illuminations known, illuminations readied, innate illuminations, and personas known as if they had gained a level in an illumination-using class to which she belonged before adding the prestige class level. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If she had more than one illumination-using class before becoming a lightning rook, she must decide to which class to add each level for the aforementioned purposes.

Shaping: At each indicated level, a lightning rook gains an increase in shaper level, formulae known, formulae prepared, and circles known as if they had gained a level in a spellshaping class to which she belonged before adding the prestige class level. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If she had more than one spellshaping class before becoming a lightning rook, she must decide to which class to add each level for the aforementioned purposes.

Blah blah blah standard stuff.[/spoi;er]

A Shield When Needed (Ex): A rook knows one of the greatest truth: you cannot protect everyone at once. However, she knows that if you have good enough reflexes and are just fast enough, you can protect a lot of people one after another.

At 1st level, if an ally of the Rook within 10 feet of her would be dealt damage by an opponent’s attack, she may take a five-foot step. If the would place her in the path of a ranged attack or adjacent to a foe making a melee attack, she takes the damage instead. If she would be put in a location where she would take more than one attack, she may choose to take a number of melee attacks up to her Constitution Modifier, but is affected by all ranged attacks that she is in the path of.

One of the iconic abilities of this class, along with the only one I thought of before deciding to make this an actual class! Step in front of the sword aimed at your buddy, a tactic that I haven’t seen nearly enough of in D&D.

Anchored Barrier: At 1st level, he Rook gains access to a Barrier Shape Component known as Anchor.

Anchor [Rook]
[Mote Cost: 1m +2m/rank beyond the first]
At times, a magical girl will dart across the battlefield constantly, while needing to bring help with her as she travels. For such an evoker, she must learn to bring her dominion alongside her. Every square within a radius of [five feet * number of ranks in this component] of the evoker is treated as the interior of the barrier. If the Evoker is riding a mount that takes up more than one space, treat every space that the mount takes up as a space occupied by the evoker. A barrier with this shape has no actual edges, and effects that would apply to the edge of a barrier do not impact the illumination's functionality.

Ah yes, the thing which I was surprised hadn’t been done before! Giving a new Illumination Component for a PrC seemed... really obvious, so yeah. Anyways, it’s basically Dominions that follows you. uvu

Enhanced Armaments (Ex): At 2nd level, a rook’s bond with her radiant armaments strengthen, causing them to grow alongside her, as any true warrior wishes for. At 2nd level and 10th level, the rook can add an enhanced armaments feature from the radiant armaments section to her costume. At 6th level, she can an enhanced armaments feature from the radiant armaments section to either her costume or her device.

Blah blah yep

Spellshape Shield (Sp): While any shaper can attack their foes with their element, few can claim control over the battlefield, while also defending those in danger. A rook’s urge to protect extends far into her spellshaping, to the point that her formulae can even affect her mighty shield.

At 2nd level, the Rook gains access to a special ability in the Shocking Current Circle known as a Spellshape Shield. A Spellshape Shield can be affected by any formulae that affect a Spellshape Attack. The Spellshape Shield for Shocking Current is known as coursing fence.

A coursing fence is a 4-foot tall wall of electric current placed along the edge of squares, with a maximum distance covered of [15 feet * Shaper Level]. None of the edges may be more than [25 feet * Shaper Level] away from the Rook when she first forms it. The fence lasts a number of rounds equal to [1/2 Shaper Level + Shaper Ability Modifier]. When a creature attempts to pass through the fence, it takes 1d6 electricity damage, + 1d6 for every four shaper levels beyond first, and must make a Fortitiude Save with a DC of [10 + 1/3 Shaper Level] or not pass through. If a creature charges through the fence, they gain a +4 circumstances bonus.

[spoiler]I think that this is a pretty cool concept, in all honesty! Lets you control the battlefield, cage foes, provide barriers to bystanders, yeah! Plus, any formulae that would affect galvanic ray can affect the fence instead, which is always pretty cool. uwu \m/

Darting Fortress (Ex): A rook has always known the importance of an oft-ignored factor of combat: reactions. While hopping over by five feet is great, doing so when it is truly needed is excellent, and she understands that perfectly.

At 3rd level, she may take an additional five-foot step per round. At 6th level, she may take one five-foot step per round when it is not her turn. At 9th level, she may take an additional five-foot steps per round, and an additional five-foot step when it is not her turn. The five-foot steps for when it is not her turn can be used to use A Shield When Needed multiple times per round.

Yeah, this mainly seeves to boost up A Shield When Needed, not gonna lie. But hey, it could very well have other applications!

Storming Citadel (Su): A rook, being a master of defending, is quickly granted the ability to defend more than ever before by the light of lightning itself. At 5th level, she gains DR/- 3, Illumination Resistance 10, and Formula Resistance 10. At 10th level, this becomes DR/- 7, Illumination Resistance 22, and Formula Resistance 22. When Illumination Resistance or Formula Resistance would apply, she may choose to not apply it.

Illumination Resistance and Formula Resistance function identically to Spell Resistance, but apply to Illuminations and Formulae, respectively.

A defending-centric class has RESISTANCE??? WHAT!? But no seriously, I would’ve felt dumb if I hadn’t put this in.

Costume: At 7th level, a rook increases her Costume Effect limit by one.

Simple enough. uwu

Bonus Evoking Specialty: At 8th level, the rook gains one additional Cartridge, one more use of a Complex Formula, and/or a +1 bonus to Persona Capacity, but only if she already had at least one level in Champion, Stargazer, and/or Empath, respectively.

OK wow I just realized that this hadn’t been done on any other PrCs, which... surprises me, because it seems like a decent thing to have, given that you don’t get it for simply taking levels in the PrC!

Queen of Two Castles (Su): A rook of this caliber is far more than a tower or a fortress, she is a bastion for all who must be protected. And as this swiftly-moving bastion, she is her own queen, ruling over the might of two very different forces of reality. And in this existence, she has finally realized that - at least for her - they need not be separate!

At 10th level, the Rook gains the ability to build a single Illumination with the maximum mote cost increased by 1/2 her Shaper Level (rounded up). Additionally, her mote pool permanently increases by a number equal to her Shaper level. Furthermore, the number of Formulae that she knows is permanently increases by 1/2 her Evoker Level (rounded up), as is the number of Formulae she has prepared.

I... think that it’s not untypical for a Gish PrC to allow the two things to affect each other’s power as a capstone? I honestly have no clue!

Amechra
2013-05-16, 01:50 AM
You'll need to explain what Formula Resistance and Illumination Resistance are; I can guess, but neither is actually a thing.

Though...

Hold on, I need to make a note here... gotcha.

caledscratcher
2013-05-16, 07:54 AM
You'll need to explain what Formula Resistance and Illumination Resistance are; I can guess, but neither is actually a thing.

Though...

Hold on, I need to make a note here... gotcha.

Ah, thank you! It's been fixed now. UwU

EDIT: So, I apparently forgot how Spell Resistance works, meaning that I was effectively giving her two things of speciallized SR 7... at 16th level. As such, I buffed up the numbers for IR and FR.

Selinia
2013-05-28, 12:08 AM
Deepest apologies for blinking out of existence yet again. Attempting to finish up a few things to put up,



Ferzian Slave


Fixes do a lot to help this class, and I must say I like it quite a lot! Added to the front page. Again, sorry for not getting on this sooner, my bad. :smallsigh:



Lightning Rook

I... really want to critique this, but I honestly have never even heard of spellshaping before now, and have to go look it up. I'll give a more complete look over this class (and I really do like the mounted combat flavor and several key elements of it) once I actually understand the system it is referencing. I simply don't feel comfortable attempting to balance something I know nothing about. For now, the one small suggestion I'd make - when you cite a homebrew subsystem in a thread other than the one dedicated to that system, providing a link is nice. It isn't mandatory, but even for people familiar with both subsystems, linking the works together makes things easier to navigate. Just a formatting trick.

Selinia
2013-05-30, 03:22 AM
Firekeeper


"Rest ye weary traveler / have no fear this night,
The fire here is warm and kind / and steady in its light.
Fear not the dreadful creatures / who in darkened shadows lie,
For the fire here is guarded / and its guard shall never die."
-From the Lay of the Bonfire Knight

Before the gods rested in their temples, mortals prayed to the open sky. Before great cities stood to guard them, they wandered as tribes across the land, never sure of what the next night might bring. They had no great walls, nor mighty mages or finely-wrought spells to draw upon, and no vast nations to call to their aid. But even still, in the darkness, mortals endured - for mortals had fire. Fire was more than a tool. At the side of the tribal fires, countless generations lived, loved, laughed, perished - to the mortals that relied upon it, fire was a guardian, a watchful protector, a shelter against the cold darkness of the world when the sun and stars themselves were lost to view. A simple element grew into the bearer of the hopes and dreams of entire species.

Those times are now hardly more than a distant, dusty memory to most - something to be unearthed and dusted off from musty ruins and forlorn, long-forgotten trinkets. But there are some who remember that the hearths and candles and campfire flames around them were once something more. Others might call them pyromaniacs, or firebugs, or any number of other derisive terms, but they know better. They know that for all the untold centuries we have allowed them to sleep, the fires of the world remember still the ancient pacts that bound them to the forefathers of mortalkind.

They are the firekeepers, and in an age that in many ways is as dark as any other, they stand fast as a torch against the endless night.


The Firekeeper is written with wielders of primal flame in mind, but that by no means prohibits other elemental-themed evokers from making use of it. Converting the class to support an Acid, Cold, Electricity, or even Sonic theme is exceedingly simple. If you like the class as is, just change all references to 'fire' to the your preferred element, and you'll have a Frostwarden or Thunder Knight in no time at all. If you're feeling more ambitious, you even could replace the Bonfire powers with another line of utility effects with similar potency and thematics more suited to your energy type of choice.

Requirements
To become a firekeeper, you must fulfill the following criteria.
Skills: Survival 8 ranks
Illuminations: Must know at least one illumination with at least one rank in the Prisms component

Firekeepers are scions of an ancient, wild flame, and their power stems from an intuitive link with the nature of the elements that mere academic knowledge cannot convey. To take up the legacy of the flames of ages past, a prospective evoker needs real, firsthand experience with the wilderness their fire would seek to tame.

Qualifications for becoming a firekeeper are fairly lax on paper, and empaths should be able to take up the mantle without too much hassle - their style of evoking is a natural fit for the nature of the PrC. Qualification is markedly trickier for Champions and Stargazers, but both are fully capable of entering, once they find a way to gain Survival as a class skill. Given the highly flexible illumination requirement, multiclassing presents itself as the most obvious solution to the class skill problem.


Class Skill List: Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge [Geography] (Int), Knowledge [Nature] (Int), Knowledge (Int), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), Use Magical Device (Cha)
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier.

A somewhat more outdoorsy skillset than most evokers get. Stargazers will likely appreciate the extra skill points, but for anyone else, not much to cause a fuss over here.

Firekeeper
Hit Dice: d8



[th]Level
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Special
Illuminations


1st
+0
+0
+0
+2
Kindle Bonfire (Sanctuary)
+1 level of existing class


2nd
+1
+0
+0
+3
Primal Spark
+1 level of existing class


3rd
+2
+1
+1
+3
Kindle Bonfire (Healing)
+1 level of existing class


4th
+3
+1
+1
+4
Undying Flame
+1 level of existing class


5th
+3
+1
+1
+4
Kindle Bonfire (Wandering)
---


6th
+4
+2
+2
+5
Molten Core
+1 level of existing class


7th
+5
+2
+2
+5
Kindle Bonfire (Awakening)
+1 level of existing class


8th
+6
+2
+2
+6
Fellowship of Flame
+1 level of existing class


9th
+6
+3
+3
+6
Kindle Bonfire (Rebirth)
+1 level of existing class


10th
+7
+3
+3
+7
Firelight Apotheosis
---



Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A firekeeper gains no proficiency with any weapons or armor.

Firekeepers are flexible entities - they hold a host of potent utility powers, and their combat abilities can be adapted to support a number of different fighting styles. Reflecting this, their chassis is... middle of the road, really. One good save and medium BAB won't win awards, but they get the job done.

Illuminations: At each indicated level, a firekeeper gains an increase in evoker level, illuminations known, illuminations readied, innate illuminations, and personas known as if they had gained a level in an illumination-using class to which they belonged before adding the prestige class level. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If she had more than one illumination-using class before becoming a firekeeper, she must decide to which class to add each level for the aforementioned purposes.

8/10 illumination progression allows a firekeeper to keep her pyrotechnical illuminations up to speed with the challenges she faces with little difficulty. The lack of a 5th level costume element is somewhat misleading - the class does, indeed, gain a somewhat narrowed version of that ability, it merely does not fall under the usual 'generic' costume progression heading.

Kindle Bonfire (Su): With a ritual requiring ten minutes of focus and meditation, the firekeeper may kindle a single flame (traditionally a hearth or campfire, though any flame will do) within 10’ of her into a primal beacon of sanctuary and protection. This imparts a number of benefits upon the flame itself – the radius of light it casts doubles, and it no longer requires fuel to continue burning. However, the flame may still be quenched by mundane means, such as being doused with a bucket of water or, in the case of extremely small fires, simply blown out by a gust of air. Further, if the flame is moved from its place once the ritual is complete, it immediately regresses to a mundane fire, losing all benefits associated with a kindled flame. A firekeeper may have a number up to her class level of kindled flames at any given time – kindling additional flames beyond this number requires the firekeeper to select one existing kindled flame to allow to fade away. A firekeeper may mentally extinguish one of her kindled flames at any distance as a full-round action.

Additionally, all creatures within 20’ of a kindled flame benefit from a continuous Sanctuary effect. If a creature breaks this effect by attacking, it is unable to benefit from any aspect of a firekeeper’s kindled flames for 24 hours, and attacking it within this duration will not break the sanctuary effect on any other creature. The Will Save DC to overcome this effect is equal to [10 + ½ Evoker Level + Evoker Stat Mod]. Otherwise, this functions identically to the spell Sanctuary, with a caster level equal to the firekeeper’s evoker level.

Beginning at 3rd level, any creature which rests within 20’ of a firekeeper’s kindled flame for at least 10 minutes gains fast healing 1 for as long as they continue resting within that area. Additionally, they are healed of one point of ability damage to each of their ability scores for every ten additional minutes they rest.

Beginning at 5th level, the firekeeper learns to tap into the primal link shared by all fire, using her kindled flames as a shortcut across impossible distances. This functions as the spell Tree Stride with an effective caster level equal to the firekeeper’s evoker level, save that the firekeeper may use any sufficiently large source of flame as a medium of transport, rather than any tree. The maximum transport range for mundane flames is 2,500 feet, but if the firekeeper enters one of her kindled flames, she may exit any other flame she has kindled, regardless of distance or planar boundaries.

Beginning at 7th level, the firekeeper may awaken her kindled flames into powerful guardians. Her kindled flames gain the ability to manifest a Greater Fire Elemental guardian. The firekeeper does not directly control these elementals, but they will never voluntarily attack her, and they devote every effort to protecting those who seek shelter at their kindled flame. These elementals are unable to stray more than 150’ from their associated flame. If the kindled flame is extinguished, its guardian elemental may rekindle it as a swift action – if it fails to do so, the elemental will dissipate one minute after its flame is extinguished.

Beginning at 9th level, so close is a firekeeper’s link to her kindled flames that even her bared soul can find its way back to the warmth and solace they offer. Whenever the firekeeper dies, she may choose to be reborn after a span of 24 hours from one of her kindled flames. If she does so, she emerges from the chosen flame at -9 HP, stabilized and unconscious, and with none of the equipment she possessed at the time of her death. Her dead body (wherever it may be) simply boils away into smoke and ash, leaving behind anything she might have been carrying at the time.

Firekeepers make the best s'mores. As a firekeeper levels, her campsites become more than just a place to rest - they are beacons of security, even when kindled in the dangerous wilds (or in the hearth of a deeply unpleasant part of town). A high-level firekeeper can use her flames for healing, transportation, protection, and even as an impromptu 'respawn point' that makes her extremely difficult to kill permanently.

Primal Spark (Su): Beginning at 2nd level, a firekeeper learns to tap into the eternal, primal flame slumbering within all things – a relic of ages past, when the skies rained fire and the earth was naught but a molten sea. Whenever the firekeeper deals fire damage with an illumination, she may ignore an amount of her target’s fire resistance or hardness equal to [class level * 3]. If the target possesses both fire resistance and hardness, this value is deducted from each of them separately. Creatures with fire immunity are instead treated as having Fire Resist 40, which this ability then reduces as normal. This ability may not reduce a creature’s effective fire resistance or hardness below 0.

Resistance is the bane of the elementalist character, regardless of subsystem or the nature of a campaign. A single, trivial number that can often invalidate entire builds. While some creatures will retain a measure of their defenses, Primal Spark goes a long way towards making sure that the firekeeper isn't caught feeling like a dunce when the party has to sally forth and slay a red dragon.

Undying Flame (Su): It is an ancient truth that, however dull and cold they might seem to the naked eye, all things in the mortal world remember how to burn. Whenever a firekeeper of at least 4th level deals fire damage to a target with an illumination, that target is wreathed in primal fire - whenever it takes fire damage from any source, that damage is increased by an amount equal to the firekeeper’s class level. These primal flames last until the beginning of the firekeeper’s next turn. Multiple applications of this effect (even from multiple firekeepers) do not stack - only the strongest effect at any given time applies.

One of the firekeeper's most interesting abilities, this is primarily a tool to support your fellow party members - but with a bit of setup (such as a flaming weapon and AoOs, or clever use of the Bombs component), this can provide a potent DPR boost even to the firekeeper herself.

Heart of Flame (Su): Flame is more than a tool to a firekeeper, or a title to wear – it is an inextricable part of her being, and to be parted from it is as unthinkable as it is impossible. Beginning at 5th level, the firekeeper is considered to have the Primal [Fire Attuned] costume effect active at all times – even when she does not have her costume manifested. This does not count against her normal costume effect limit, and may have motes invested in it as usual. If the firekeeper wishes, she may still manifest the Primal costume effect for other energy types, but she may not use this effect to manifest a second fire attuned Primal effect.

This is essentially just the Firekeeper's version of the common 5th level costume effect shared by many ToR prestige classes.

Molten Core (Su): As a firekeeper grows in power, the smoldering energy she wields infuses her very flesh, and liquid flame courses through her veins. Whenever a creature damages a firekeeper of at least 6th level with a melee attack, the attacker immediately takes 3d4 points of fire damage as retributive damage. At 8th level, and again at 10th level, this damage increases by +1d4.

The firekeeper is not a tremendously durable class, but this, combined with Undying Flames, can serve as a powerful deterrent to enemies that might wish to engage her in melee.

Fellowship of Flame (Su): At times, the greatest flame can leap from the smallest of sparks, if one knows how to feed the fire. A firekeeper of 8th level or higher may, as a swift action, briefly imbue the weapons of any of her allies within 100' with the essence of purifying flame. This allows affected weapons to deal fire damage instead of the weapon’s usual damage type – the choice of which damage type to use is made by the wielder of the weapon on a per-attack basis. This effect lasts for one round.

This 'pseudo-surge' helps compensate for the fact that many firekeepers will likely wish to keep a significant number of motes invested in their Primal costume effect to maximize the potency of their fiery Blasts. It generally can't match a 'true' surge of its level, but it provides a powerful teamwork benefit with allies who would rather not invest in flaming weapons of their own - and it provides an invaluable workaround to enemies boasting high damage reduction.

Firelight Apotheosis (Su): The barrier between the firekeeper and the conflagrant power she channels has all but dissolved. Where others might have been consumed by the force and fury of the ancient flame, she has tamed it, and tempered the eternal pyre into a weapon unlike any other. At 10th level, a firekeeper forevermore becomes a Native Outsider with the Fire subtype and an Augmented subtype pertaining to her previous type, with all the traits that implies. Unlike most creatures with the Fire subtype, however, the firekeeper does not gain vulnerability to cold damage. Further, she can no longer be aged by any means mundane or magical, and will never die of old age.

It's an apotheosis! Admittedly, the Firelight Apotheosis is quite tame compared to its capstone cousins, but it comes a full five levels earlier for most builds. The evoker is now free to bathe in magma to her heart's content, along with the usual perks of agelessness and Native Outsider status.

Selinia
2013-05-30, 03:32 AM
Only one item on the changelog tonight but:


Added the Firekeeper PrC! A close cousin of the Prism Knight from the old Magical Girl thread, the firekeeper is an elementalist who uses her power to both provide shelter for her allies and molten fury to her foes. If inspiration strikes me, there will likely be similar derivative PrCs for other the other major energy types, but for now, conversion of the firekeeper to other elements is both exceedingly simple and officially sanctioned.


As always, comments or criticism for the class are welcome. Have taken a somewhat different route with the concept this time, and it would be nice to hear if anyone thinks it turned out well (and if not, what might need tweaking).

NineThePuma
2013-05-30, 06:43 AM
Part of me wants to run my own adaptation along Elemental lines rather than Energy Types.

Earth Shaper, Wave Caller, and Wind Dancer spring to mind as class names immediately; looking over the Firekeeper, it focuses on a central utility oriented ability (which involves setting up a 'beacon'), and from there has a number of element oriented aspects that relate to combat, so I can play with that.

I probably won't take it anywhere though.

vasharanpaladin
2013-05-30, 12:14 PM
GLORIOUS FIRE-BASED PRC


...Marry us, Selinia. YOU HAVE THE POWER.

Garryl
2013-05-30, 02:25 PM
I... really want to critique this, but I honestly have never even heard of spellshaping before now, and have to go look it up. I'll give a more complete look over this class (and I really do like the mounted combat flavor and several key elements of it) once I actually understand the system it is referencing. I simply don't feel comfortable attempting to balance something I know nothing about. For now, the one small suggestion I'd make - when you cite a homebrew subsystem in a thread other than the one dedicated to that system, providing a link is nice. It isn't mandatory, but even for people familiar with both subsystems, linking the works together makes things easier to navigate. Just a formatting trick.

Spellshaping (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?board=64.0) (GitP (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224508)) is basically ToB for magical characters. It's well written, well balanced, and certainly worth the read.

The Tygre
2013-05-30, 05:22 PM
Ferzian Slave

"I may be a master, but my master is greater than I. She is why I live, and why I love."
- Quinn Morris, just before the slaying of her master’s rival.



... Well if no one else says it, I will.

Elf slave. Wat do?

Selinia
2013-05-31, 02:52 AM
Part of me wants to run my own adaptation along Elemental lines rather than Energy Types.

Earth Shaper, Wave Caller, and Wind Dancer spring to mind as class names immediately; looking over the Firekeeper, it focuses on a central utility oriented ability (which involves setting up a 'beacon'), and from there has a number of element oriented aspects that relate to combat, so I can play with that.

I probably won't take it anywhere though.

Making a four-elements conversion would likely be a bit more involved than just flipping energy types, but it is a neat idea. While energy types are, by definition, all energy-based, most of the classical elements seem like they could stand better as concepts other than the firekeeper's blaster-skewed path. It's something I'd have to think on, but I do like the idea.


...Marry us, Selinia. YOU HAVE THE POWER.

By the power vested in me as an agent of Madokami, I hereby pronounce you pyromaniac and prestige class.

You may ignite the battlemat.


Spellshaping (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?board=64.0) (GitP (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224508)) is basically ToB for magical characters. It's well written, well balanced, and certainly worth the read.

Yeah, I managed to find this and am in the process of working through it. I love the ToB (a lot of the Tome of Radiance can be traced back there in terms of design philosophy), and this looks like a fascinating spin on the ideas in it. Will definitely be examining this thing closely, so many thanks to you guys for pointing it out to me!


... Well if no one else says it, I will.

Elf slave. Wat do?

Not entirely certain what you are asking, but if you're referring to 'what happens when a slave outlives their master', there is a pretty simple solution to that - get a new one. The Craft Soulbond feat fully supports breaking old soulbonds and forging new ones, so it is definitely possible. Given the way soulbonds work however, it is highly likely that the slave's 'Master' will be another party member, or some other close relation to the party, so the odds of lifespans coming up in the course of actual play are fairly low.

jamieth
2013-05-31, 02:56 AM
Making a four-elements conversion would likely be a bit more involved than just flipping energy types, but it is a neat idea. While energy types are, by definition, all energy-based, most of the classical elements seem like they could stand better as concepts other than the firekeeper's blaster-skewed path. It's something I'd have to think on, but I do like the idea.

Yeah, I got inspired by the name Wind Dancer and started throwing it together as a mobility-based PrC... afraid it has too much overlap with an Aerial Mage, though. But, as others have already stated, love the Firekeeper.

vasharanpaladin
2013-05-31, 12:15 PM
By the power vested in me as an agent of Madokami, I hereby pronounce you pyromaniac and prestige class.

You may ignite the battlemat.


And thus the greatest threat to the multiverse was born. :smallcool:

Sachiko-K
2013-05-31, 12:42 PM
Firekeeper

I only have one thing to say about this Prestige Class.

Prepare To Die...

Selinia
2013-06-01, 01:45 AM
I only have one thing to say about this Prestige Class.

Prepare To Die...

Hehehe. Actually, the class was originally much more rejuvenation-based (it even had an Estus stand-in that gave crazy-high short-term Fast Healing), but somewhere along the line I decided to cache those things for later and focus on a proper heir to the Prism Knight. I will say - if and when I get around to doing the other energy types, Cold is definitely going to have some nods to dear Priscilla.


Yeah, I got inspired by the name Wind Dancer and started throwing it together as a mobility-based PrC... afraid it has too much overlap with an Aerial Mage, though. But, as others have already stated, love the Firekeeper.

Hmmm. Well, if you're going air-based with a 'wind dancer' theme, I can definitely think of a few ways to differentiate it from Arial Mage. In essence, instead of focusing on raw mobility (which is where the Mage's expertise lies), focus on the fleeting, ephemeral nature of air - a class as difficult to catch as the wind itself. Short bursts of invisibility, precise, short-range teleportation, and a way to shift your position around when you're missed by an attack. Go for the invisible breeze, rather than the howling tornado - it's a side of Air that doesn't get enough attention, in my opinion, and it'd be cool to see an elemental lurker. That's my input, anyway!

Speaking of lurkers though, Changelog!


Added the Sunrise Strike Rogue Alternate Class Feature! While a rogue taking this option sacrifices some of the raw damage output of true Sneak Attack, she gains immense flexibility in her attack routine, and is much less shackled to two-weapon fighting and the full attack than a normal rogue is.
Added the Heart of War feat! While Empaths are supposedly able to change combat roles at the drop of a hat, the rigidity of the feat system means that in practice, they're stuck with one more or less clean-cut skill set. Heart of War essentially allows martially-inclined empaths to actually specialize their various personas, and lets her actually switch roles mid-combat without gimping herself. Want to wade into battle with a big two-handed weapon while manifesting the Emperor, and shift to a mobility-focused, dodge-heavy skirmisher configuration when wearing The Hanged Man? Now you can!

caledscratcher
2013-06-01, 02:42 AM
Hm, I just got the idea for a Champion/Paladin PrC based around folklore beliefs relating to iron, seeing as Plutarch called it the bones of the Gods. It would also have a lesser focus on the light of meteors, because sky-iron. :3

Quester
2013-06-03, 05:21 PM
I love the firekeeper, a flavorful and unique successor to the prism knight.

there's a little mistake in the sunrise strike rouge, the cost of Assault blast shape is 1m, not 2.

Do any of the Alternate class features grant an evoker level? The rogue and barbarian alternate class features do grant illuminations, albeit in a limited and unusual fashion.

Edit:
Both of my questions have been answered through edits.

caledscratcher
2013-06-07, 04:19 PM
Hm, even though this project is for 3.5e, I've gotten an idea for a Pathfinder racial archetype for the Champion. Namely, the Ratfolk "Surface Seeker".

They can only use Bolt and Marksman Devices, wind up with a maximum of four Cartridges per day but the option to use two at once to boost two effects at once, can add their Charisma bonus to ranged attack and damage rolls (rather than being added to Strength and Dexterity rolls), and there will probably be a couple of new Illumination components swapped out for typical Champion ones. Thoughts?

Moonwolf727
2013-06-23, 06:31 PM
I have a quick question if no-one minds me asking. With the Resplendent device effect do you have to expend an illumination to store it, if not then can you store an illumination you dont have readied at the time?

Lix Lorn
2013-06-25, 10:38 PM
I seem to have written a deity (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H1MWkP5DIj5BtGbiAFlSE3tzE7vKx__k1bQYeJcmzoo/edit).

DrakeRaids
2013-06-28, 12:26 PM
Do you add strength to a magical girls ranged weapons?

jamieth
2013-06-28, 02:26 PM
Hm, I just got a campaign idea... Evokers in Ravenloft. After all, even if it is considered impossiblr for the gods to directly affect the Demiplane of Dread, there is still light - and Serena is explicitely a goddess of beating the impossible odds, anyway... ANd, in Ravenloft, innocence have a special power already...

Lix Lorn
2013-06-28, 03:24 PM
Do you add strength to a magical girls ranged weapons?
I would assume not, since they aren't thrown weapons...


Hm, I just got a campaign idea... Evokers in Ravenloft. After all, even if it is considered impossiblr for the gods to directly affect the Demiplane of Dread, there is still light - and Serena is explicitely a goddess of beating the impossible odds, anyway... ANd, in Ravenloft, innocence have a special power already...
Ha. Maybe?
Seems about as fitting as running magical girls in the world of darkness, though. :smalltongue:

jamieth
2013-06-28, 03:43 PM
Ha. Maybe?
Seems about as fitting as running magical girls in the world of darkness, though. :smalltongue:

Are you, by any chance, familiar with Princess: the Hopeful (princesswod.wikia.com)? :-)

Lix Lorn
2013-06-28, 05:13 PM
Ha. I vaguely recalled hearing about it, had forgotten the name. xD
(WoD is not really my thing. ^_^'')

Selinia
2013-06-30, 03:29 AM
Whew. Apologies, again. On the bright side, finally got my placement exams done, and after a godawful marathon of tests, have started to wrap up some of my courses. Still a lot to do, but in the home stretch at least! :smallsigh:


Hm, I just got the idea for a Champion/Paladin PrC based around folklore beliefs relating to iron, seeing as Plutarch called it the bones of the Gods. It would also have a lesser focus on the light of meteors, because sky-iron. :3

Champion/Paladin is one of the most intuitive class combinations I can think of in terms of fluff - the overlap is immense, and imagining a radiant paladin or a divine champion is hardly a stretch. The trick is, of course, making the Paladin side 'worth it' in mechanical terms, but the concept is quite sound.


I love the firekeeper, a flavorful and unique successor to the prism knight.

there's a little mistake in the sunrise strike rouge, the cost of Assault blast shape is 1m, not 2.

Do any of the Alternate class features grant an evoker level? The rogue and barbarian alternate class features do grant illuminations, albeit in a limited and unusual fashion.

Edit:
Both of my questions have been answered through edits.

Apologies for the ninja-fix, haven't had the time to really post properly, so just sort of snuck in and tweaked a few errors. Thanks for pointing those out!


Hm, even though this project is for 3.5e, I've gotten an idea for a Pathfinder racial archetype for the Champion. Namely, the Ratfolk "Surface Seeker".

They can only use Bolt and Marksman Devices, wind up with a maximum of four Cartridges per day but the option to use two at once to boost two effects at once, can add their Charisma bonus to ranged attack and damage rolls (rather than being added to Strength and Dexterity rolls), and there will probably be a couple of new Illumination components swapped out for typical Champion ones. Thoughts?

I know almost nothing about ratfolk! That said, I'd caution somewhat about adding new components in archetypes. My goal with the ToR is to keep as much possible 'in the open', so to speak - where the various components can be taken by different sorts of evokers for different reasons. I'm not against ACFs for the core trio, but I do think they ought to be actual alternate class features. You don't need to take a Cleric ACF to have a slightly different spell list, after all.


I have a quick question if no-one minds me asking. With the Resplendent device effect do you have to expend an illumination to store it, if not then can you store an illumination you dont have readied at the time?

You do not, in fact, use the illumination in question as part of storing it in your device - it is simply part of the mote allocation action. You do, however, need to have the illumination in question readied if you wish to store it - this has been clarified.


I seem to have written a deity (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H1MWkP5DIj5BtGbiAFlSE3tzE7vKx__k1bQYeJcmzoo/edit).

This is wonderful! Really, it is. Aside from earning a definite place when I finally get around to the 'evokers in the world' segment, it's something I feel could be made into a very solid theme for a PrC as well.


Do you add strength to a magical girls ranged weapons?

Nope. No ranged weapon adds strength unless it is a a thrown weapon, or unless there's a special weapon gimmick in play, like Composite bows.


Hm, I just got a campaign idea... Evokers in Ravenloft. After all, even if it is considered impossiblr for the gods to directly affect the Demiplane of Dread, there is still light - and Serena is explicitely a goddess of beating the impossible odds, anyway... ANd, in Ravenloft, innocence have a special power already...

Ironically, the Undead-themed evoker is one of the first PrC ideas I had when starting the ToR. I just haven't ever gotten around to working on it. Never thought to tie it to Ravenloft, I admit - I only have a passing knowledge of it.


Are you, by any chance, familiar with Princess: the Hopeful (princesswod.wikia.com)? :-)

Actually, I haven't seen this before! WoD is generally not my cup of tea (aside from Genius, because Genius is awesome), but I always appriciate new stuff to look through for ideas, and this looks like the product of a lot of good work in its own right.

mistformsquirrl
2013-06-30, 09:18 AM
Hello all < . .>; It seems I have signed myself up for a game that will be drawing heavily on Tome of Radiance; and I am highly interested! However it's new to me as well*.

Baaaasically I was wondering if I could bug you all for answers to a few questions just to make sure I'm understanding things right < . .>;;

Am I getting Illuminations correctly in that you choose one component of each type, add up the total cost, and then put that in your readied slot?

Example: A basic blast would be -

Power (Foundation), Beam (Shape), Prism, Electricity (Secondary), and the cost would be 3m, with an additional 2m per 15 ft of range you wanted to apply? And then you'd consider that a "Known" Illumination, and if you wanted to actually use it you'd shove that in the Readied slot?

Come to think of it: Is the shape's range dynamic or static? Ie: Say I know, and have readied the above Illumination - can I spend extra motes each round to increase the range when needed? Or is that a pre-determined once the Illumination is known, and you have to wait for a level up to upgrade it?

Just trying to make sure I understand this right... I kinda think I do buuuut I'd rather check than jump into a game and be useless because I don't now what I'm doing.

*Not the genre of course; but the actual nuts and bolts of the system.

jamieth
2013-06-30, 11:25 AM
One answer I can give you right now: yes, the Illumination components are locked the moment you craft it. If you want two versions of the blast withdifferent ranges, you have to craft two illuminations. Also, you can add more than one Secondary component. And, you can add additional motes on top of 6our resulting mote cost, just to increase the base damage output.

Upd: checked your math; yes, the Prism Beam of Force would cost 3m, and produce a 15 feet line dealing 3d6 of electricity damage. And, yes, after you craft your Illuminations when you level up, they are Known. Then, you Ready some of them by excersizing for 5 mins, and can use your Readied illuminations as much as you want.

Selinia
2013-07-01, 12:17 PM
Jamieth has the right of it here. Essentially, the process to use illuminations goes:

1. Select one Foundation component
2. Select one Shape component
3. Select any number of Secondary components (can select zero, if you wish)
4. If desired, manually increase mote cost
5. Calculate Foundation component power based on final mote cost

Your illumination is now complete, and on your "Known" list, which you can change at will whenever you increase your evoker level.

jamieth
2013-07-03, 05:17 AM
OK, so, my understanding of action economy still being very imperfect... I need the answer on the following:

Which of the following are legitimate attack options?
a) using Assault Blast combined with a Marial Strike
b) dealing situational (i.e. Sneak Attack, or Scout's Skirmish) damage with an Assault Blast
c) using Assault Blast as part of Charge

d) a) but with Imbue instead of the Assault
e) b) -//-
f) c) -//-

Lix Lorn
2013-07-03, 11:52 AM
OK, so, my understanding of action economy still being very imperfect... I need the answer on the following:

Which of the following are legitimate attack options?
a) using Assault Blast combined with a Marial Strike
b) dealing situational (i.e. Sneak Attack, or Scout's Skirmish) damage with an Assault Blast
c) using Assault Blast as part of Charge

d) a) but with Imbue instead of the Assault
e) b) -//-
f) c) -//-
a) No, but I expect a feat/PrC to come for this. (Assault blast allows you to make a special action. Maneuvers allow you to make a special action. Maybe! I thought the answer was no, but an attack action is 'any time you'd make an attack', and technically, most maneuvers give you attacks, so...
b) Yes. You're making an attack, you get sneak attack on it.
c) Yep. You get an attack action as part of a charge.

d,e,f) Yes, definitely.

...and I have my own question. Is it possible to use an Imbue illumination to charge your weapon, and then to use an Assault blast, thereby ending up with one attack that does double your normal illumination damage?

jamieth
2013-07-03, 12:36 PM
That, I can answer, actually - yes, but you can't spend more than your Evoker Level on single type of Illuminations per round, and both Imbue and Assault are Blasts. So... you can only get two weak Illuminations on a single attack. Thanks for clarifying my doubts!

Selinia
2013-07-04, 04:03 AM
Fashionista


"What do you mean, fewer ribbons? Are you trying to make me cry?"
-Janna the Dollmaker

A magical girl's costume is more than a simple suit of clothing or armor - it is an extrusion of her very spirit. The costumes of the most iconic evokers live on as icons as much as their wearers do, and a well-honed device can hold its own against the most ancient of mythical weapons.

For some evokers, however, simply channeling her power through a costume is not enough. These rare few devotees bond with their equipment on an unmatched level, gaining an intimate understanding of the underlying mechanisms of their radiant armaments. These individuals may seem eccentric to some untouched by the light, but to many evokers, such mastery is the subject of envy as much as anything else.

A fashionista is never dirty, nor ruffled, or out of place. She is elegant. Collected. And she always knows how to dress for the occasion.

Requirements
To become a fashionista, you must fulfill the following criteria.
Base Attack Bonus: +4
Skills: Craft (Armorsmithing) 8 ranks OR Craft (Weaponsmithing) 8 ranks, Use Magic Device 8 ranks
Feats: Radiant Arsenal
Special: Must possess the Radiant Armaments class feature, and be capable of infusing your armaments with two costume effects at once


This is a short PrC, and the entry requirements are far from draconian. Champions qualify almost effortlessly, but any evoker can take the class to completion - they just enter a little later.


Class Skill List: Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge [History] (Int), Knowledge [Local] (Int), Perform (Cha), Sense Motive (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), Use Magical Device (Cha)
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier.

A few expansions from the Champion list - most notably Disguise, putting all that design expertise to good use.

Fashionista
Hit Dice: d10



Level
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Special
Illuminations


1st
+1
+2
+2
+0
Costume Mastery, Bottomless Wardrobe, Transformation Sequence (Standard)
---


2nd
+2
+3
+3
+0
Expanded Arsenal, Instant Accessories, Extra Imbuement
+1 level of existing class


3rd
+3
+3
+3
+1
Transformation Sequence (Move)
+1 level of existing class


4th
+4
+4
+4
+1
Expanded Arsenal, Dazzling Flourish
+1 level of existing class


5th
+5
+4
+4
+1
Transformation Sequence (Swift), Sacrifice Costume, Extra Imbuement
---



Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A fashionista is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all armor (heavy, medium, and light) and shields (but not tower shields).

Very solid chassis here - two good saves, full BAB, d10 HD, and full armor proficiency. Notably, this means that regardless of what the evoker wore before, the additional costumes granted by this class can be designated as any costume type!

Illuminations: At each indicated level, a fashionista gains an increase in evoker level, illuminations known, illuminations readied, innate illuminations, and personas known as if they had gained a level in an illumination-using class to which they belonged before adding the prestige class level. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If she had more than one illumination-using class before becoming a fashionista, she must decide to which class to add each level for the aforementioned purposes.

Radiant Armaments: At 2nd and 5th levels, the fashionista increases her Imbuement limit by one.

Three-fifths illumination progression is definitely the 'weak link' in the fashionista's chassis, but nobody is going to complain about an extra costume effect.

Costume Mastery (Su): More than any other evoker, a fashionista understands the underpinnings of her mystical armaments, effortlessly awakening powers other magical girls must devote time and energy to activate. Every costume effect manifested by the fashionista is automatically imbued with a number of free motes equal to her class level. These extra motes cannot be extracted from her costume elements, and count normally against the limit on how many motes may be imbued into a single costume element at any given time.

A fashionista's costume elements mean a lot more than those of most evokers - what others need to expend precious motes for, a fashionista can maintain as a passive effect. Bringing costume elements to their full potential still requires mote investment, but it is significantly more possible to support multiple costume effects with this class feature to help you.

Bottomless Wardrobe (Su): For each instance of the Radiant Arsenal feat the fashionista possess, she may select an additional costume and an additional device, rather than selecting only one of the two.

Fashionistas get tons of costumes. Really, they do.

Transformation Sequence (Su): While any evoker worthy of the name understands the simple ritual to summon their costume from the ether, a fashionista takes the process a step further – not only accelerating the process, but harnessing the transformation as a potent defense in its own right. As a standard action, the fashionista may initiate a transformation sequence, which lasts until the start of her next turn. While wrapped in this transformation sequence, the fashionista loses the benefits of any costume she might be wearing, including its armor bonus to AC and any costume effects she might be manifesting with it. However, she also gains DR/- equal to [evoker level + class level] as the radiant energy she harnesses shields her from physical harm.

When the transformation sequence ends, the fashionista may immediately manifest any of her available costumes. If she was already wearing a costume, and had motes invested in one or more of its costume effects, she may choose to either transfer the invested motes freely into the costume effects of her new costume or release them back into her mote pool – this occurs before the fashionista’s motes refresh for the turn.

After using a transformation sequence to don any given costume, the fashionista may not use this ability to don the same costume a second time until she spends one minute concentrating and refreshing the energy of her radiant arsenal.

Beginning at 3rd level, the fashionista may choose to initiate a transformation sequence as a move action. Beginning at 5th level, she may choose to initiate a transformation sequence as a swift action.

While every evoker can perform a transformation sequence of sorts - simply summoning their costume as a full-round action - the fashionista hones it to an art form. She can change costumes more quickly than her counterparts, and while she is theoretically vulnerable while using this ability, most attacks will be severely reduced in effectiveness if they attempt to break through her sequence's innate barrier.

Expanded Arsenal (Ex): At 2nd level, and again at 4th level, the fashionista gains Radiant Arsenal as a bonus feat.

If these things weren't immaterial when not in use, you'd need a walk-in closet.

Instant Accessories (Su): Beginning at 2nd level, a fashionista’s attunement to her devices is so immaculately bound that she can recall them with but a thought. She may henceforth summon any of her devices as a swift action, rather than a full-round action. The fashionista may still only have one device manifested at any given time, but she may dismiss her currently summoned device as part of the same swift action summons if she wishes to do so.

Switching between weapons mid-combat is something few characters can pull effectively, but a fashionista has an entire arsenal of powerful devices at her beck and call...

Dazzling Flourish (Su): The swiftness and grace with which the fashionista can draw and discard her devices can leave even the most observant foes befuddled at the patterns woven by her versatile arsenal. Beginning at 4th level, when a fashionista summons a device with a swift action, enemies are considered to be flat-footed against attacks made with that device until the end of her turn. Once dazzled in this manner, an enemy cannot suffer this effect again from the summoning of the same device for 24 hours – though the fashionista can continue to befuddle her foes by continuing to pull new weapons from the ether.

...and to sweeten the deal, many enemies can be thrown off-balance by the unusual breadth of weaponry displayed by a fashionista. She's at her best when she is in a position to constantly adapt, repeatedly shifting weapons to meet the needs of combat and keep her enemies baffled and misdirected.

Costume Damage (Su): As much as she loves her costumes, a fashionista realizes that a few simple rips and tears are nothing her personal poise can’t compensate for. Beginning at 5th level, as a free action, the fashionista can redirect damage from any single damage source from herself to her costume. If she does this, the fashionista takes no damage from the redirected attack. However, using this technique damages her costume to the point of uselessness – it no longer grants any bonus to AC, and any costume effects bound to it are immediately dismissed. A fashionista’s other costumes are unaffected. A costume destroyed in this manner is automatically restored to full functionality the next time the fashionista spends eight or more hours resting. No other form of repair, even spells or effects designed specifically to repair equipment, is capable of reversing the damage incurred by this ability. A fashionista must be wearing a costume to use this ability, and she cannot redirect damage to an already-damaged costume.

Sooner or later, something will come your way that you just can't afford to let hit you - a massive blast, a megaton punch, or the bullet from a well-aimed sniper rifle. When when it comes down to the wire, a magical girl always seems to pull through in the end. Costumed torn and burnt, but wearer alive and well. Good thing you brought spares, right?

Sample Fashionista
Janna the Dollmaker: (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=848974) Champion 5/Fashionista 3
CR 8 Living Construct, Neutral Good

Selinia
2013-07-04, 04:27 AM
OK, so, my understanding of action economy still being very imperfect... I need the answer on the following:

Which of the following are legitimate attack options?
a) using Assault Blast combined with a Marial Strike
b) dealing situational (i.e. Sneak Attack, or Scout's Skirmish) damage with an Assault Blast
c) using Assault Blast as part of Charge

d) a) but with Imbue instead of the Assault
e) b) -//-
f) c) -//-

Lix Lorn nailed most of these, but with regards to a), you may not use an Assault Blast with a martial strike. Martial strikes are (generally) standard-action effects that include an attack. To my knowledge, the attack launched as part of a strike is still a standard-action effect, and a wholly seperate entity from an 'attack action'. You cannot make a full attack with Strikes, for example, or include them in one - at least, not without special permission from something. I may be mistaken on this, but they are not supposed to interact - if you're looking to put a blast on a strike, that is what Imbue is for, and mastering Assault and Imbue blasts is a significant part of the power of the Valkyrie PrC.


In other news, Changelog!


Added the Fashionista Prestige Class! As the successor to the Costumed Crusader, the fashionista is the master of costume-as-equipment. While they give up some of an evoker's more esoteric abilities, the fashionista offers a strong chassis, rock-solid defenses, and a fluid, adaptable combat style.


Working on this, it occured to me that I really need to expand on the costume sections of the ToR a bit more. They're presently a little sparse, and with something like the fashionista opening up a plethora of options at once, this flaw is only exacerbated.

AuraTwilight
2013-07-04, 04:47 AM
It is my personal opinion that the reason for the existence of D&D 3.5 edition was for the birth of the Tome of Radiance. Keep it up.

Lix Lorn
2013-07-04, 04:52 AM
I think the problem might be that, as far as I know, there is no official definition of an attack action. It's just an action that the homebrew community has seized upon as logical.

jamieth
2013-07-04, 04:56 AM
Love the Fashionista! So much fun to do with it - should I ever run a ToR campaign, I'll just have to pull a transformation sequence on my players... because I know they will attempt to beat up the Magical Girl while she's transforming. Nice way to teach them that going against genre tropes might be unwise. In fact, I have the idea for a not-really-villain, an Empath built to maximize the WTF effect on the players)
Flipping coins instead of rollind dice, saying things like "sky is red, sun is green, [artifact name] is in [place name]" while PCs' magic confirms all of those statements are true... (for added fun, the artifact is really there), pulling out increasingly impossible weapons mid-fight provoking players to ask, "how do you fight with that?" (The answer, of course, would be, "I've no idea. Nor is your character, therefore, he's flafooted.") Fun stuff)

upd: A couple small caveats:



{table=head]Level|Illuminations

1st|
---

2nd|
+1 level of existing class

3rd|
+1 level of existing class

4th|
+1 level of existing class|
2

5th|
---
[/table]

Two-fifths illumination progression is definitely the 'weak link' in the fashionista's chassis, but nobody is going to complain about an extra costume effect.

Looks more like three-fifths to me)



Expanded Arsenal (Ex): At 2nd level, and again at 4th level, the fashionista gains Expanded Arsenal as a bonus feat.

You meant Radiant Arsenal, I guess?

Qwertystop
2013-07-04, 08:58 AM
Love the Fashionista! So much fun to do with it - should I ever run a ToR campaign, I'll just have to pull a transformation sequence on my players... because I know they will attempt to beat up the Magical Girl while she's transforming. Nice way to teach them that going against genre tropes might be unwise. In fact, I have the idea for a not-really-villain, an Empath built to maximize the WTF effect on the players)
Flipping coins instead of rollind dice, saying things like "sky is red, sun is green, [artifact name] is in [place name]" while PCs' magic confirms all of those statements are true... (for added fun, the artifact is really there), pulling out increasingly impossible weapons mid-fight provoking players to ask, "how do you fight with that?" (The answer, of course, would be, "I've no idea. Nor is your character, therefore, he's flafooted.") Fun stuff)

upd: A couple small caveats:



Looks more like three-fifths to me)




You meant Radiant Arsenal, I guess?

Where do you get coin-flips and true lies?

jamieth
2013-07-04, 10:05 AM
I remember some of the Empath's aspects having powers like that. Don't remember which, though...

NineThePuma
2013-07-04, 10:53 AM
Fashionista failed to make it into the front page.

How does Fashionista interact with Radiant Armorer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14692867&postcount=247)

jamieth
2013-07-04, 12:19 PM
Rather well, I suppose; it makes the feat almost twice as powerful (by making it give both Device and Costume) AND gets it as a bonus feat - twice)

NineThePuma
2013-07-04, 12:35 PM
Am having to debate which of the two to take first. Fashionista brings a solid boost in power, but Radiant Armorer gives more versatility.

Oh well, I'll figure something out.

DrakeRaids
2013-07-04, 01:09 PM
Can you full attack with an assault blast?

Lix Lorn
2013-07-04, 07:06 PM
Yes, that's p much the point of attack actions, but remember the line Jamieth had to tell me two lines ago :smalltongue:

Regardless of the number of motes or actions available, an evoker may only use spend a number of motes up to her evoker level on illuminations of a given base type (Blasts, Barriers, and Surges) in a round.
So, if you're level 10 and can make three attacks, you could use Assault illuminations as one, two, or three of those attacks, as long as their total cost was 10m or less.
(So, assuming Power, you could do a 10d6 and two mundane attacks, two 5d6s and one mundane, one 4d6 and two 3d6s, or whatever combination you liked. You could even, as far as I know, do 3d6 on each and save 1d6 for an AoO.)

AmberVael
2013-07-04, 07:35 PM
Looking over all the previous conversation, I think Assault could use some clarification here.

The essential question is, what is meant by an attack action?

Previously, it has been stated that
1) Martial Strikes do not count, as they are not attack actions, but rather standard actions that typically grant attacks.
2) Charges do count.

Here's the thing though- this is contradictory. First, a charge is not an attack action. By strict interpretation, 'attack action' indicates only one kind of action- a standard action used to make an attack. That's the Attack Action listed in the books. Charge on the other hand is listed among the special attacks alongside such things as Turn Undead and Bull Rush. It is not an Attack Action, nor does it grant one in its effects- like a maneuver, it is a special kind of action that grants an attack.

A full round attack is similarly listed as a separate kind of action, so the question comes up on that front too. It isn't THE attack action. Some sort of argument might be fronted that it is a kind of attack action, but by a strict reading, it is not the kind of wording that the ability would indicate.


In terms of intent though, I'm not nearly as sure what is going on. Is Assault only meant to work on standard action attacks? That doesn't quite seem right- Imbue has a massive advantage over it if that is the case, even if you do have to spend an extra action. And if that were the intent, then it wouldn't work with Charge either. If it is meant to work on Charge and Full Attacks though, the ability needs some clarification and rewriting... especially if it is meant to exclude things like martial strikes. You'd basically need to call out the specific things it would work with.

Lix Lorn
2013-07-04, 08:17 PM
I generally encounter attack actions in homebrew as 'the amount of time it takes to make a single attack'.
This would mean that a charge contains one, a standard attack one, a full attack several - but also that most martial strikes would include one.

Draken
2013-07-04, 08:35 PM
Generally speaking, "attack actions" are what 4ed codified as basic attacks. It is a terminology that really could do with some unified definition for those homebrewers who use it.

I tend to use "attack action" to mean any melee or ranged attack, personally, the source of said attack notwithstanding (standard action, charge, full-round attack, attack of opportunity, free action flurry of blows, swift action maneuver, etc...).

Lix Lorn
2013-07-04, 11:00 PM
...the costume table lists Champion, Empath, and Zodiac, rather than Stargazer...

Qwertystop
2013-07-05, 05:01 PM
I remember in the first thread of this project, I was introduced to Lyrical Nanoha, and told that the best start would be the movie rather than the first season. I've already watched through the full series by now, of course, but for purposes of showing other people, is Movie 2nd A's better or worse than the 2nd season? I looked at it, and it seems to change quite a bit - the big question is whether that's enough to make it not flow into StrikerS well enough.

jamieth
2013-07-05, 05:30 PM
Well, from what I can say, by now the movies are in a continuity of their own, and the third one would be an original story rather than retelling StrikerS, so, I assume... unlikely.

NineThePuma
2013-07-05, 06:04 PM
The movies do okay at showing the rough story of what happened. That they're essentially condensing 26+ episodes into about 2 hours and makin the story still work is a sign that the movies are a good example.

AmberVael
2013-07-07, 01:21 AM
A few things I've noticed and wondered about while reading illuminations-

Some of the options for barriers mention using barriers to target someone rather than making an area... but there is no shape that does this. Is this an artifact of previous versions, or a hint of something that is intended to be there later?

For barricades barriers... if you want to pass through, you can pass through. If you don't want to pass through, you don't have to pass through. But what happens if something is inanimate? Does an object pass through or not? If stab through the barrier with a spear, is that fine? What about if I try and use a barricade as an umbrella- will I get soaked if I haven't spent 12 motes on it? And would it deflect hail just the same as the rain? What about falling boulders?

Assuming that you can use an assault illumination in a full attack, if I hit someone with a flare invocation on my first attack, then hit them with an iterative attack, does that trigger the flare? It is in the same action as the attack, though logically it would seem to be a different source of damage, since it is a distinct attack.


Edit: Also something on personas- for The Magician, you can create items. And there's a DC limitation, and a duration limitation which I can see. On the other hand... I can't see any kind of size limitation.
...is there anything preventing me from making Instant Palace, Just Add Empath?

Oh, and there isn't actually any wording that indicates that an Empath can change their illuminations.

zhdarkstar
2013-07-07, 03:14 PM
For Illumination progression PrC's, does the Empath's aspect selection increase as well? I would assume that it progresses since the personas known does so, but it could probably use a little clarification.

Morcleon
2013-07-07, 03:16 PM
A question about the soulbond Heart's Whisper feats. Does the increased telepathy range benefit both partners? Because it would kinda suck if you couldn't reply to messages sent. :smalltongue:

Dragonus45
2013-07-09, 09:04 AM
I remember in the first thread of this project, I was introduced to Lyrical Nanoha, and told that the best start would be the movie rather than the first season. I've already watched through the full series by now, of course, but for purposes of showing other people, is Movie 2nd A's better or worse than the 2nd season? I looked at it, and it seems to change quite a bit - the big question is whether that's enough to make it not flow into StrikerS well enough.

The thing to remember about the movies is that they are the in universe movies of the main casts life. I kid you not.

jamieth
2013-07-10, 01:06 AM
The thing to remember about the movies is that they are the in universe movies of the main casts life. I kid you not.

...are they? Oh. That certainly explains much... like, the complete lack of mention of a certain admiral's involvement in the A's movie. Must be confidential information, in-universe.
***
In other news, I'm thinking of brewing something radiant-based for this contest, with Selinia's permission.

upd: something I never was able to remember... which of the following increases whan you take an Illumination-increasing level in a PrC?
Evoker level (and, therefore, Illumination save DCs)
Mote pool
Max cost of a single Illumination
Illuminations known/readied
Empath's number of Personas
Empath's number of Illumiantion per Persona
Empath's number of Innate Illuminations?

Also, does Empath qualify for PrCs only by her natural (low) BAB?

zhdarkstar
2013-07-10, 09:25 AM
In other news, I'm thinking of brewing something radiant-based for this contest, with Selinia's permission.

I've got a radiant-based PrC planned and written up for the PrC contest as well. Just waiting on Selinia to get back to me regarding permission. Hopefully we didn't choose the same concept.


upd: something I never was able to remember... which of the following increases whan you take an Illumination-increasing level in a PrC?
Evoker level (and, therefore, Illumination save DCs)
Mote pool
Max cost of a single Illumination
Illuminations known/readied
Empath's number of Personas
Empath's number of Illumiantion per Persona
Empath's number of Innate Illuminations?

I believe it's a yes to all of those. The only thing I'm not sure about is if it increases the aspects available via Manifest Persona.

Lix Lorn
2013-07-14, 03:55 AM
Is there a way to increase the radius of a Bombs Illumination?
I don't see one, although I expect it's because of how nasty it could be...
What I might suggest is to let you double the radius by adding 1m/rank to the cost.

So for 6m, you could get three ranks of 5ft radius or two ranks of 10ft radius.

Also, the 'multiple evoker classes' thing might need clarification for gestalt. If you take champion//stargazer 10, as written you have Evoker Level 15.
...what might be nice is if it DOES stack like that for your mote pool, but not for anything else.


Further, it is impossible to craft or evoke any illumination with a cost of less than 1m. Any illumination with a lower mote cost must select components to raise its cost until it reaches a positive value.

This is said twice. once at the end of the fourth paragraph of that sentence, and once at the end of the fifth...

NineThePuma
2013-07-14, 06:18 AM
I have -too many ideas- and need to get my thought space cleared so that I can work on one project.

Are there any plans to bring something along the lines of the Old Dark Magical Girl into the Tome of Radiance?

Lix Lorn
2013-07-14, 06:19 AM
This is pretty much the opposite of a DMG, but I wrote it, so you're gonna like it anyway. >: (
I hope.


Shining Princess
‘There are many paths to the light.’

Background: Most evokers come to it naturally, finding themselves on one of many paths without ever realising it, and generally not realising it’s a path – let alone that there are others. Only a rare few see the other ways, and only a fraction travel on more than one – and only a fraction of them travel on all three.
Races: The light is blind to race.
Other Classes: While many races can consider the power of the light to be childish or naïve, the grace of the Shining Princess is inarguable even to them.
Role: A Shining Princess is without compare as an evoker of varying skills.
Shining Princesses in the World: A Shining Princess often ends up in a position of authority, growing into it quickly. Until then, they are often found adventuring, combating darkness wherever it is found.
Inspiration: Evoke ALL the things.

Prerequisites
Class Features: Any one of: Limit Boost (6 Charges), Complex Formula (2, +3), Changing Heart (Two)
Evoking: Ability to evoke illuminations as a Champion, an Empath, and a Stargazer.

Hit Die: d8
Class Skills-The Shining Princess has walked many paths. She treats all skills as class skills.
Skill Points per Level: 4 + Int Modifier

LevelBase Attack BonusFort SaveRef SaveWill Save
Special
Illumination
1st
+0
+0
+0
+2 Radiant Unity-
2nd
+1
+0
+0
+3Luminous Reservoir (+3m) +1 level of existing class
3rd
+2
+1
+1
+3Cartridges (+1), Shining Unity +1 level of existing class
4th
+3
+1
+1
+4Complex Formula (+0, +1)+1 level of existing class
5th
+3
+1
+1
+4Luminous Reservoir (+6m) +1 level of existing class
6th
+4
+2
+2
+5Limit Mode, Shining Unity, Armament Effect -
7th
+5
+2
+2
+5Cartridges (+2) +1 level of existing class
8th
+6
+2
+2
+6Luminous Reservoir (+9m) +1 level of existing class
9th
+6
+3
+3
+6Complex Formula (+1, +2) , Shining Unity +1 level of existing class
10th
+7
+3
+3
+7Queen of Light+1 level of existing class

Weapon and Armour Proficiency: The Shining Princess gains no new weapon or armor proficiencies.

Illuminations: At each level, apart from 1st and 6th level, the Princess adds one to her evoker level. These levels also count as Empath levels for the purpose of obtaining new personas and more powerful aspects, but not their persona capacity. These levels also count as Champion levels for determining how powerful the Princess' Limit Boost ability is, which can grant them the ability if they don't have it yet.

Radiant Unity: A Shining Princess has been a glorious champion, a thoughtful Stargazer, and, most fittingly, worn the many lives of the Empath. They have transcended them all, as a true hero of light.

The Shining Princess has a single Evoker Level, which is the sum of all of her evoker levels, to a maximum of her character level. This supersedes the usual evoker level stacking rules. Whenever an ability refers to a Champion, Stargazer, or Empath class level, instead use this Evoker level.

They have a single illumination list, containing as many illuminations as gained from stargazer levels, champion levels, and innate illuminations added together. Evoker levels from Shining Princess grant new illuminations as if levels in Stargazer. Personae have their own illuminations, as normal. Levels in Shining Princess count as Empath levels for Aspects that would increase their BAB to equal to that of a fighter, or increase their fortitude or reflex saves to good.
When crafting illuminations, the Shining Princess may access any components.
Her illuminations always use the highest of her mental abilities to calculate their effect.

The Shining Princess retains all three of her devices and costumes. Magical enhancements, whether from gold, class features, or any other means apply to all three of them equally, as long as applicable.

Explanations
For a Champion 8/Stargazer 1/Empath 1/Shining Princess 2, they possess an evoker level of 11.
In a gestalt game, their evoker level remains capped at their character level. However, each second evoker level they would gain past this cap increases the size of their mote pool by two.

Luminous Reservoir: At 2nd level, and each third level thereafter, the Shining Princess adds three to the size of her Luminous Reservoir, or gains the Luminous Reservoir ability with a size of 3m if she did not possess it.

Cartridges: At 3rd level, and each fourth level thereafter, the Shining Princess gains an additional cartridge, or gains the Cartridge ability if she did not possess it.

Shining Unity: At 3rd level, the Shining Princess learns how to better combine the paths of the light. She chooses one of the following abilities. At 6th level, she chooses a second, and at 9th gains the third.

Luminous Enhancement
Whenever you use a Cartridge Boost effect, you may also invest up to (half shining princess level) motes from your Luminous Reservoir to that costume feature, to a maximum limit of (shining princess level) more than your standard investment limit. The motes remain invested until the end of the encounter.

Aspect Charging
You may use a Cartridge to hyper-charge a persona, increasing numerical qualities in its aspect by 50% until the end of the encounter. (Including skill bonuses, number of links for the Lovers, size of healing for the Empress…)

Aspect Formula
For each persona you possess, you may craft a Complex Formula, exactly as the Stargazer ability. Each Complex Formula is tied to the persona that created it, and only they may use it. This ability may not be chosen if you cannot form a Complex Formula.

Complex Forumula: At 4th level, and each fifth level thereafter, the Shining Princess increases her Complex Formula as if she had gained four stargazer levels. If she does not possess Complex Formula, she gains it as a 1st level Stargazer, and then increases it as normal each fifth level thereafter. The table shows the benefits gained by a Shining Princess with Complex Formula (1, +1) on entry.

Armament Effect: At 6th level, the Shining Princess may select a new Armament effect.

If extended past tenth level, she gains another Armament Effect at level 11, and each fifth level thereafter.

Queen of Light: At 10th level, a Shining Princess is a queen among the followers of the light, an avatar of radiant power. She forevermore becomes a Native Outsider with one alignment subtype of her choice and an Augmented subtype pertaining to her previous type, with all the traits that implies. Further, she can no longer be aged by any means mundane or magical, and will never die of old age.

In addition, she gains a +5 morale bonus on social* (Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Sense Motive) rolls made against evokers, or groups made up primarily of evokers.

Finally, she may choose a single class feature from level 15 or below in the Champion or Stargazer class that she does not possess*, and gain it. She may instead increase her Persona Capacity by one.
(She could choose Shining Schemata or Grace of Aeons from Stargazer, or Mettle or the Meaning of Courage from Champion. She could not choose Font of Life, since it requires level 18, or increase her Luminous Reservoir, since she already possesses it.)

zhdarkstar
2013-07-14, 08:51 AM
I like it as it gives an option for those who want every evoker option.

NineThePuma
2013-07-14, 11:46 AM
You know, it occurs to me.

Can a warforged wear a costume? Or does its composite plating count as a costume?

vasharanpaladin
2013-07-14, 03:59 PM
You know, it occurs to me.

Can a warforged wear a costume? Or does its composite plating count as a costume?

Sounds like a job for a racial feat!

Hardlight Body
Prerequisites: Warforged, evoker level 1st, must be taken at 1st level
Benefit: Rather than the composite plating common to warforged, your body is plated with panels of solid light. This hardlight armor provides a +2 armor bonus to AC, with no max Dex, skill check penalties or chance of arcane spell failure. You can commit motes and add costume effects to your hardlight armor as if it were your costume. While you have motes committed in this way, your hardlight armor's AC bonus also applies to your touch AC.

Draken
2013-07-14, 04:16 PM
Sounds like a job for a racial feat!

Hardlight Body
Prerequisites: Warforged, evoker level 1st, must be taken at 1st level
Benefit: Rather than the composite plating common to warforged, your body is plated with panels of solid light. This hardlight armor provides a +2 armor bonus to AC, with no max Dex, skill check penalties or chance of arcane spell failure. You can commit motes and add costume effects to your hardlight armor as if it were your costume. While you have motes committed in this way, your hardlight armor's AC bonus also applies to your touch AC.

Mandatory feats that honestly don't do anything are a poor idea. This would be better served by a racial substitution level.

vasharanpaladin
2013-07-14, 04:35 PM
Mandatory feats that honestly don't do anything are a poor idea. This would be better served by a racial substitution level.

Aww, but warforged "Body" feats are traditional! :smallwink:

zhdarkstar
2013-07-14, 11:59 PM
I think that something along the lines of the Warforged Sentai ACF (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14390632&postcount=4) would be more appropriate, where the normal form is the costume and their alter ego is someone else.

NineThePuma
2013-07-15, 04:02 AM
Honestly, a racial feat would have to be -worth a feat- in addition to giving some sort of "costume plating" and is additionally not very open to alternative builds or fluff based builds that start being an evoker after the first couple levels.

vasharanpaladin
2013-07-15, 12:34 PM
Honestly, a racial feat would have to be -worth a feat- in addition to giving some sort of "costume plating" and is additionally not very open to alternative builds or fluff based builds that start being an evoker after the first couple levels.

I'd like to point out that it was literally written up on the spot and I'd like to think it's fairly decent considering that and that, again, "Body" feats are traditional with subsystems (at least, those that bother thinking about warforged), so how about we stop complaining and actually go about fixing it, hm?

That, or you can go flip a fork, that works too. :smallmad:

NineThePuma
2013-07-15, 12:40 PM
The only subsystem that got a stand alone body feat was Psionics. (And druid magics, but we don't count that)

vasharanpaladin
2013-07-15, 01:56 PM
The only subsystem that got a stand alone body feat was Psionics. (And druid magics, but we don't count that)

Read: "When warforged are even considered." Note that Psiforged Body is in an EBERRON book, thus mention of psionics there prompts attention to warforged.

Here on the forums we have, at the least, Rageforged (barbarian rage) and Soulforged Body (incarnum). That's three, the rule is satisfied, ergo subsystem goes hand in hand with warforged "body" feat.

On the other hand, this is a 3.x project, so regardless of whether my insane logic or lack thereof is followed I'll never be able to use this. :smallfurious:

NineThePuma
2013-07-15, 02:38 PM
On the other hand, this is a 3.x project, so regardless of whether my insane logic or lack thereof is followed I'll never be able to use this. :smallfurious:

Then why are you even in this thread? :smallconfused:

vasharanpaladin
2013-07-15, 02:54 PM
Then why are you even in this thread? :smallconfused:

Ask me no questions, lest you find the answers too horrible to bear. :smalltongue:

NineThePuma
2013-07-17, 06:48 PM
I think we -might- need more costume effects and enhanced armaments options. Anyone else think so, or is it just me?

vasharanpaladin
2013-07-17, 08:52 PM
I think we -might- need more costume effects and enhanced armaments options. Anyone else think so, or is it just me?

I agree. :smallbiggrin:

NineThePuma
2013-07-17, 08:57 PM
I mean, I'm building a character who will have Nine costumes, minimum, and I need to make them all different instead of being 9 copies of the same thing. Unfortunately there's not a lot of competition for options.

Snowfire
2013-07-18, 02:30 AM
I think we -might- need more costume effects and enhanced armaments options. Anyone else think so, or is it just me?

I disagree. Disagree quite strongly actually. The enhanced armaments cover just about all the basic options I can think of - if I'm missing something, do tell - and the number of costume effects that all base classes have access to is more than enough. Remember, these are the basic effects, what every MG could theoretically have access to. If you want the actual number of available costume effects, you're going to have to take PrCs into account. And when you do that we actually have nine.

Selinia
2013-07-18, 03:48 AM
Full reply set (including a review of the lovely Ultimate Evoker Shining Princess) spending for when I am not dead tired. Contrary to the impression I might give from my post timestamps, I am not in fact a strange, stardust-powered nocturnal owl person, and at some point I do need sleep. For now, tossing out a few of the most urgently called-for points:


Assault Illuminations have been called to my attention as mechanically broken, in the 'does not function' sense. Thanks for that, I'm not sure what I was thinking with 'Attack Action'. Regardless, Assault Illuminations are set to be properly re-worded: an assault illumination on its own is a standard action, but such an illumination may be used in place of a single attack in a full attack action, or in place of the attack at the end of a charge. No other forms of attack permit an Assault illumination - if you want to combine blasting with AoOs, Strikes (other than strikes that allow you to make a full attack to begin with), or the like, you're looking for Imbue.
Fashionista added to the front page. Derp.
The temporally misplaced Zodiac reference has been changed to Stargazer. Herp-Derp.



Additionally, I will state that the sorry state of affairs for costumes in terms of options to availability is presently bearing the brunt of my ToR-related focus, and Snowfire's point is the roadblock I kept coming around to. With the present state of the armament system, there are certain limits on how many effects can be added. In interest of cleaning up the options in a subsystem that has a great many of them, Enhanced Armament effects will soon no longer exist. Along with a few newcomers, all enhanced armament effects will be converted either into new Effects, or new Archetypes. In a similar vein, archetype restrictions on costume and device effects are set to be lifted (possibly with some exceptions). That alone will go a long way towards helping you differentiate two devices of the same archetype.

In any case, that is just a rough overview. I owe my latest vanishment to a combination of orientation programs for heading off to college and the dreaded Steam Summer Sale. On the bright side, rampant religious shenanigains with Theodora finally inspired me with a concept for that Cece PrC I mentioned a while back!

Snowfire
2013-07-18, 04:15 AM
Contrary to the impression I might give from my post timestamps, I am not in fact a strange, stardust-powered nocturnal owl person, and at some point I do need sleep.

Wait, what? Then why did you make me buy all that stardust owl food!

Great to hear that you've got some more things in the works in regards to Effects/Archetypes and PrCs. I've got a few more ideas for the latter floating around actually that I will get around to writing at some point in the future, one of which is totally-not a blatant rip-off of the idea of Night Caste Solars. As a taste:

"Do not fear the dawn, for it comes openly in glory.
Do not fear the night, for it is your time of power.
Fear the twilight. For it creeps upon you unseen,
And sends you unto night eternal."

NineThePuma
2013-07-18, 09:14 AM
While PrC only options are nice, they're also PrC only and I have a full 20 level build just focusing on making my costumes as sexy as possible. Fashionista + Radiant Armorer together is a surprisingly versatile combination that leaves me with 6 costume effects at a time as well as 9 devices and 9 costumes (three have been settled on: one is a fairly basic default costume with a Marksman weapon, one is only a prototype with the intent for it to be Magical Girl Batman, and the last is my Joke Costume which is a monkey suit that fights with a giant banana) I'm going to end up with 3 of each costume in terms of costume archetypes (and have a little bit of overlap in Devices), but the hard part is differentiating them because I have so many costume effects for each one that them overlapping is a significant issue. Having one or two effects that are common is okay, having them all be essentially the same is not. Having various Enhanced Armaments end up as Costume Elements is a good step and will hopefully open things up to less overlap.

Qwertystop
2013-07-18, 01:25 PM
Keep in mind, there is that one ability from the Fashionista that destroys a costume until you repair it. You could use identical copies like quick-repairs.

NineThePuma
2013-07-18, 01:43 PM
Considered the option and then discarded it: having copies would remove the cost of the sacrifice. It would essentially turn something WITH a cost into something without a cost.

Qwertystop
2013-07-18, 01:52 PM
Considered the option and then discarded it: having copies would remove the cost of the sacrifice. It would essentially turn something WITH a cost into something without a cost.

The cost is one costume slot per recovery. Also, extra required downtime to get them all working again.

AmberVael
2013-07-18, 07:05 PM
A few things I've noticed and wondered about while reading illuminations-

Some of the options for barriers mention using barriers to target someone rather than making an area... but there is no shape that does this. Is this an artifact of previous versions, or a hint of something that is intended to be there later?

For barricades barriers... if you want to pass through, you can pass through. If you don't want to pass through, you don't have to pass through. But what happens if something is inanimate? Does an object pass through or not? If stab through the barrier with a spear, is that fine? What about if I try and use a barricade as an umbrella- will I get soaked if I haven't spent 12 motes on it? And would it deflect hail just the same as the rain? What about falling boulders?

Assuming that you can use an assault illumination in a full attack, if I hit someone with a flare invocation on my first attack, then hit them with an iterative attack, does that trigger the flare? It is in the same action as the attack, though logically it would seem to be a different source of damage, since it is a distinct attack.


Edit: Also something on personas- for The Magician, you can create items. And there's a DC limitation, and a duration limitation which I can see. On the other hand... I can't see any kind of size limitation.
...is there anything preventing me from making Instant Palace, Just Add Empath?

Oh, and there isn't actually any wording that indicates that an Empath can change their illuminations. (Between levels, that is).

A few more additions to these items:

As it stands, Empaths either cannot change costume effects (as they don't prepare illuminations) or can change costume effects as a swift action (if you count changing personas as preparing illuminations). Either of these seems a little off. This was stated earlier in the thread, but it appears to have been overlooked.

What if you want to go unarmored? Say you have some monk levels in there, or some kind of casting ability, or just anything that penalizes you for wearing armor. Right now, trying to use that with magical girl just cuts out abilities from one or the other simply because all costumes count as armor, no matter what you do. My advice would be to make a fourth costume of some kind that does not count as armor. Perhaps something with a really low armor bonus, but also no penalties or max dex?

Empath just seems bare bones at the moment. I think it's nonetheless my favorite of the classes, but Champion is getting bonus enhanced armaments, and cartridges, and things like mettle and the meaning of courage. Stargazer gets complex formula, and luminous reservoir, and like Champion, a list of smaller but meaningful features. Empath just gets personas. Admittedly, personas are amazing... but it still feels a bit dry. I think they could use something more to fill out those levels, if only for flavor.

Heart of War is kinda crazy. With most of the fighter feats its okay, but once you introduce the better ones, things like Martial Study, it gets way better. Maybe too much better, once your number of known personas starts growing. Spend a feat to get multiple good feats? Who wouldn't do that?

Lix Lorn
2013-07-18, 07:31 PM
Empath just seems bare bones at the moment. I think it's nonetheless my favorite of the classes, but Champion is getting bonus enhanced armaments, and cartridges, and things like mettle and the meaning of courage. Stargazer gets complex formula, and luminous reservoir, and like Champion, a list of smaller but meaningful features. Empath just gets personas. Admittedly, personas are amazing... but it still feels a bit dry. I think they could use something more to fill out those levels, if only for flavor.
I agree with all of this post, but this is one which I noticed when making the Shining Princess.

Selinia
2013-07-19, 03:08 AM
*Selinia performs sneaky ninja partial update, avoids answering questions she is in no fit condition to answer at the moment. Apologizes for the delay - in the meantime, enjoy the expanded archetype list.*

NineThePuma
2013-07-19, 07:31 AM
:D

I can now have 1 of each device archtype, which reduces the fear of overlap in that direction.

And the addition of "Unarmored" costumes addresses Monk concerns. It does make a Monk/Empath double dip Wis to AC, but hey, he's a monk, he needs all the help he can get.

vasharanpaladin
2013-07-19, 12:27 PM
*immediately prepares a Motherless champion/Night Devil for if/when I ever get the chance to play*

Aura costume, Flexible device... prepare up dood, I ready to fight dirty. :smallcool:

zhdarkstar
2013-07-19, 02:13 PM
Hmmmm...These updates may cause me to rethink some aspects of the Radiant Senshi PrC (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15610304&postcount=4) I'm working on. Aura armor brings up the same situation as the monk where you double dip evoking-stat to AC, once as armor bonus and again as deflection bonus. That's not even including the armor enhancement bonus from Sentai levels. I cut the Sentai progression from 3/4 to 1/2 to cap effective Sentai level at 16 by level 20. That also brings it more in line with the capstone bonus feat & sentai ability as they're Sentai 15 abilities.

I would appreciate any constructive feedback about the class. This is my first attempt at working with ToR material.

I think the next ToR PrC I'll work on after Radiant Senshi will be a spellshaper/evoker hybrid. I like how the two fit thematically with their relationship with the more "refined" spellcasters. I already have some experience with spellshaping because of factoring the Magician archetype for Sentai into my other Sentai PrCs.

DrakeRaids
2013-07-21, 11:51 AM
Do costumes count as armor for effects that mention it? Like is a heavy costume literally 'heavy' typed armor, and the same for light and medium?

AmberVael
2013-07-21, 11:57 AM
Do costumes count as armor for effects that mention it? Like is a heavy costume literally 'heavy' typed armor, and the same for light and medium?

Yes. Each costume description has a line that makes it count for its equivalent armor for all purposes.

Except Aura. Aura is not armor, which is the point.

Moonwolf727
2013-07-21, 07:03 PM
I just had a thought about the Vile component actually. It probably isn't important but I feel like I should ask for clarification anyway.

If I were to deal enough nonlethal damage with a blast evoked using the Vile component to knock someone unconscious would that mean that, since Vile damage only heals under certain conditions unless I am mistaken, the person remains unconscious until they recieve the appropriate treatment or dies from starvation/thirst?

sreservoir
2013-07-23, 11:16 PM
Flare [Empath, Stargazer]
There is a limit to the radiant power a mortal body can hold. Evokers are capable of regulating their personal flow of luminescence almost instinctively, but other creatures are far less fortunate. A blast with this foundation rolls damage as usual, dealing 1d8 damage for each mote of the illumination's cost. However, targets do not take this damage immediately. Instead, the blast lies dormant within them, discharging as soon as the target takes damage from another source. If the target does not take any damage within a number of minutes equal to the number of motes in this illumination's final cost, the latent energy dissipates harmlessly. Latent damage from multiple application of Flare blasts stacks. Any damage dealt with the same action as the blast, such as the weapon damage of an Assault illumination, does not trigger this effect. If the latent damage on a target is about to discharge, the evoker may choose to prevent the discharge as an immediate action.

do additional applications remain separate (and thus require one immediate action per blast), or does the damage stack (and only one immediate action is needed to prevent the whole stack from discharging)? if the latter, how do flare blasts by multiple evokers on the same target interact — can any of them stop the discharge, all of them, one of them with the consent of the others, they remain separate, or ??

(I'd suggest that the same flare blast stacks with itself, but multiple flare blasts stack separately, but)


Bombs [Stargazer]
[Mote Cost: 2m/rank]
Radiant power is inherently unstable - it can be channeled, refined, and redirected, but its eventual eruption is all but inevitable. The illumination no longer requires an attack roll, instead allowing the magical girl to scatter a number of energy bundles equal to [2 * ranks] anywhere within a base range of 20'. Energy bundles may only be placed in unoccupied squares, and no more than one bundle may be placed in any given square. Whenever a creature enters an energy bundle's square, that bundle detonates with a blast radius of 5'. Targets within the area of effect can attempt a reflex save for half damage. At the beginning of the evoker's next turn, all remaining energy bundles detonate. Creatures caught in multiple simultaneous detonations only make a single saving throw, and only take the illumination's damage once, but the reflex save DC increases by +2 for every overlapping explosion beyond the first.

objects caught in simultaneous detonations, though, do they take the damage multiple times or also just once. (the text explicitly specifies "creatures" for an exception.)


Eruption [Champion, Empath, Stargazer]
[Mote Cost: 2m/rank]
Calling upon the maelstrom of radiant energy in a magical girl’s soul, this component converts a blast into a raw, unbridled eruption of power. The illumination gains a blast radius of 10’ per rank of this component, centered on you. The illumination no longer can be used at range, no longer requires an attack roll, and allows its targets the opportunity to make a Reflex save. On a successful save, the blast deals half damage.

out of curiosity, is there a reason it's 2m/rank for 10’/rank, and not 1m/5’/rank? the other explosion shape goes by 5’ increments, after all.

Chains, Cascade

given the limitation to one jump per rank, I can't imagine a situation (they might be exist, but they'd have to be kind of esoteric) where k ranks of chain is not inferior to k+1 ranks of cascade and k ranks of horizon. k ranks of chain has a maximum range of (30+15k) ft. and can hit k+1 targets, with some limitations on how much damage and how the targets are placed, whereas k+1 ranks of cascade with k ranks of horizon has a maximum range of (60×2^k) ft. (which is strictly greater and grows really fast), hits the same number of targets, and isn't as restricted in their arrangement and the damage each takes. both fail if the first attack roll you roll is terrible, but hitting a thing with a cascade blast isn't contingent on hitting everything before it.


Vile [Champion, Empath, Stargazer]
[Mote Cost: 5m]
Not all light is clean - the fires of Hell and the Abyss bear their own sickly radiance, and less scrupulous evokers can tap into that light to bright forth blasts of a terrible potency. Damage dealt by blast augmented with this effect is considered to be both evil-aligned and vile damage in addition to any other damage types it may possess. Non-evil evokers may make use of this component, but such a horrendous tool must be used with great care if they wish to carry on long with their alignment intact.

what, no cross-ref or explanationt for the special properties of vile damage?


Barricades [Champion, Empath, Stargazer]
A powerful tool in the hands of those that know how to use it, the component of Barricades allows a tactician to partition a battlefield as she pleases – or a warrior to prevent the escape of her prey.

I actually really like this component, I think I've mentioned, but it's ... ambiguous and strange.


So long as the barrier's mote cost is at least 1m, the edge of the barrier is a quasi-solid object capable of blocking movement.

under what circumstances would it be less than 1m? wouldn't that be a not-valid illumination?


Moving through this edge costs 10 feet of movement, though this cost can be ignored with a successful strength check against a DC equal to the save DC of the evoker's illuminations.

okay, so, it blocks movement, except it only kind of impedes movement. so: if you're thrown at the barrier, does the edge count as 10 ft. of intervening space? if so, do you get halfway through if you run out of distance to be thrown 5 ft. in?

if you're falling, does the barrier count as 10 ft. of intervening space to slow your fall (but also as space for you to accelerate ??)?

(also that DC is already kind of high, but that's probably not unintentional.)


Alternately, a creature may force their way through the barrier regardless of speed or strength with a full-round action.

this option isn't useful for anyone with no less than a 5 ft. speed at the 10 ft. mark, so maybe move it down a few sentences?


If a creatures does not wish to pass through the barrier, they may interact with it as they would any solid surface, including climbing or standing on top of it.

under what circumstances are you allowed to decide whether you want to pass the barrier? if you're unconscious, it's just a 10-ft. intevening space, yes? does that mean you can't be dragged across a barricades barrier if you're not conscious? if you don't know it's there, can you still interact with it if you'd have wanted there to be a wall there?

(note that, as long as it's necessary for the creature to think about it, you either can't drag someone unconscious through it, or you can't drag them over it.)

(I'd prefer "it's solid unless you take the action to walk through.")


For every 3m of this barrier's cost, movement through the edge of the barrier costs an additional 5 feet and the DC to force through it increases by +2.

the DC becomes ridiculous really fast -- it's already 10 + stat + EL/2; after this, it becomes 10 + stat + EL/2 + 2*(EL/3), which comes out to about 10 + stat + 7/6EL, which scales faster than 1:1 with evoker level[i] (without even trying) and is opposed by strength bonus, which scales at maybe about 2/5 of level if you're dedicating as much of resources as possible. keeping in mind that your evoker stat has no reason [i]not to improve just as fast as an adversary's strength. so at 1st level, it's str+d20 vs your 10+stat (opponent forces through on a 10, 55%); at 6th level, it's already str+d20 vs 17+stat (opponent forces through on a 17, 20%); by 10th level, you have 21+stat, and if the opponent has been keeping up with strength at the same rate as you have on your evoker stat, that's success only on a natural 21 (i.e. that's not even possible) or they have to spend a full round. (and keep in mind that your evoker stat bonus can scale at +1/3 EL due to might surges, in place of the usual enhancement bonuses, and that's with a sane interpretation of the might component, which is poorly worded (see below).


If the barrier costs at least 12m, it is impassable without use of a strength check or a full-round action.

by the time you have a 12m barrier, the strength check is p much impossible anyway -- your base DC is 16, you have an additional +8 for the 12m, so the evoker stat is going to have be be at least 4 less than the strength.

I'm not convinced that's not intentional, though, so eh.


Despite its seeming solidity, a barrier with this component does not affect targeting or line of effect in any way.


Tempests [Empath, Stargazer]
Not all great barriers in the world are forged of brick and mortar. A mighty storm of ice and snow can bar passage for thousands, and no sane sailor would cast off when the seas are roused. Crafting her power in emulation of such might wardens, a magical girl can engulf a battlefield in a tempest of her own devising. So long as the barrier's mote cost is at least 1m, the interior of the barrier experiences torrential precipitation that inflicts a -4 penalty on Spot and Search checks to find anything contained within. Traditionally, this takes the form of snowflakes, and act as such - but almost any replacement is theoretically possible. If the barrier costs at least 5m, heaps and drifts of material begin to pile up, and the movement cost to enter any space contained within the barrier doubles. If the barrier costs at least 10m, any creature within the barrier must make a reflex save whenever they move more than half their speed to avoid falling prone in the final square of their movement. If the barrier costs at least 15m, movement costs within the barrier are quadrupled, rather than doubled.

does this interact with barricades?


Pilgrimage [Champion, Empath, Stargazer]
[Mote Cost: 1m/rank]
Boosting the cohesion and longevity of a barrier, this component allows the range of an illumination to be dramatically increased. For each rank of the Pilgrimage component applied to an illumination, its base range doubles. This does not affect the radius, length, or other measurements of any potential Shape effects, and does not benefit illuminations whose Shape does not specify a base range.

all existing shapes specify a base range, but okay, future-proofing, I guess.


Radiance [Champion, Empath, Stargazer]
[Mote Cost: 1m/rank]
Where evokers walk, light follows. One of the simplest of all components, the power of radiance allows an evoker to bring light into the dark places of the world. The interior of her barrier becomes brightly lit, and sheds bright light 10' beyond its borders, and shadowy illumination for twice that distance. For each rank of this component beyond the first, the radius of bright light (and consequently, shadowy illumination) doubles. Multiple doublings stack as usual - for example, a barrier with three ranks of this component sheds bright light in a radius of 30', and shadowy illumination for 30' beyond that. This effect counters or dispels any darkness spell with a spell level equal to or less than half the number of ranks in this component.

not seeing how that example relates to multiple doublings -- there's really only one doubling in this component anyway, though.


Might [Champion, Empath, Stargazer]
The ideal warrior has no weakness, but even the most rigorous training will leave sometimes leave one cursing that their skills are hindered by their own feeble body. Unsurprisingly, given how young many evokers are when they first begin to wield their power, one of the most common surge components is one to reinforce and fortify natural potential. The recipient of the surge receives a +2 Enhancement bonus to an ability score chosen when the illumination is crafted. For every 3m of the illumination's cost, the evoker may add a +2 Enhancement bonus to another ability score. The same ability score can be chosen for this boost multiple times, and its effects stack.

the last line is problematic: it implies that, say, if we extend the duration through echoes, and then we use the illumination twice, we get double the enhancement bonus. intention is probably only once, but it stacks with the rest of the +2.

[I'm stopping here because I need to sleep]



Enhanced Armaments
Whenever an evoker gains a rank of the Enhanced Armaments class feature and chooses to improve her costume, she may choose from the following effects. Unless otherwise noted, a single enhancement can be taken multiple times.

Device Archetypes

?? the enhanced armaments lists disappeared, it looks like.

Raineh Daze
2013-07-31, 05:31 PM
I have to admit I can't make sense of something.

Enhancements are listed on a table in the equipment post, for costumes. This in no way syncs up with Enhanced Armaments. Cartridges need effects to boost, but there's no effect to boost according to the Champion table. There is according to the Armaments section, but then what the hell does Enhanced Armaments do?

So what, exactly, do these differing indications all mean? :smallfrown:

Regalus
2013-07-31, 05:57 PM
Ignore this

Raineh Daze
2013-07-31, 06:01 PM
Cartridges boost Costume effects, not Enhanced Armaments. Each Costume Effect states the effect generated by expending a Cartridge on it in their entries.

The enhanced armament feature is currently being reworked into a new set of Costume Effects, mone of which have been posted as of yet. The class entries are expected to be updated once the conversion is completed.

Oh, so costume effects are independent? Ah.

Also, which of the following is true?
At level 1 you have one effect for the Device or Costume
At level 1 you have one effect each for the Device and Costume
At level 1 you have one effect for the Costume alone


i.e., does the table give a number of effects to be applied to Device or Costume, or is it for the Costume alone?

Regalus
2013-07-31, 06:08 PM
Cartridges boost Costume effects, not Enhanced Armaments. Each Costume Effect states the effect generated by expending a Cartridge on it in their entries.

The enhanced armament feature is currently being reworked into a new set of Costume Effects, mone of which have been posted as of yet. The class entries are expected to be updated once the conversion is completed. It should be noted that several EA's became individual weapon types as it is.

In the original paradigm, Enhanced Armaments altered the base stats of your Radiant Armaments personalizing them for your use. Costume Effects are entirely new special abilities you gain after assigning them to your Raidient armament.

Examples of each:

EA: +1 crit multiplier, remove 1 armor check penalty, increase damage dice size by 1, grant your Weapon reach.

CE: Gain flight, energy resistance, the ability to reroll checks, damage resistance, ect

Hope that clears things up.

Raineh Daze
2013-07-31, 06:12 PM
Yeah, that makes sense. It doesn't answer the question I just asked--is Costume Effects a misnomer, and does the number on the table give a pool to be split between Device and Costume? :smallconfused:

Snowfire
2013-07-31, 06:15 PM
Yeah, that makes sense. It doesn't answer the question I just asked--is Costume Effects a misnomer, and does the number on the table give a pool to be split between Device and Costume? :smallconfused:

The number on the table is for number of effects total. So at level one you have can choose any one element from the entire list. So yeah, it's a misnomer.

Regalus
2013-07-31, 06:16 PM
Sport about that, my pc is being iffy and refuses to let me edit my previous post, after it had posted it ahead of time.

In any case, to put it simply you are mistaken. Currently the only class that gained EA's is the Champion, and it lists each level it gains one in the class proper. Costume Effects are gaiened separately in accordence to the Table in the Radiant Armament post.

As is each class gains one CE at level 1. The champion gains one EA every four levels.

Raineh Daze
2013-07-31, 06:19 PM
The number on the table is for number of effects total. So at level one you have can choose any one element from the entire list. So yeah, it's a misnomer.

Ah, thank you for that. That's what I'm most interested in, where making a level 1 character is concerned. :smallbiggrin:

Dragonus45
2013-08-01, 04:03 AM
So i love this class, i love it so much. I have always adored magical girl shows, but no one else i know seems remotely interested in even reading it to see if its balanced or not. Can anyone think of any kind of advice for getting people to actually read these classes.

Moonwolf727
2013-08-01, 04:08 AM
So i love this class, i love it so much. I have always adored magical girl shows, but no one else i know seems remotely interested in even reading it to see if its balanced or not. Can anyone think of any kind of advice for getting people to actually read these classes.

Tell them all about the stuff it can do and is like without mentioning it being based around magical girls at all. When they are really really excited for it, reveal what it is called and grin, telling them it would be fun if you could play a class from it. Hopefully they will be enraptured enough to agree and let you. :smallsmile:

jamieth
2013-08-01, 04:27 AM
So, now that we agreed that Costume Effects are a misnomer (considering there are both Costume Costume Effects and Device Costume Effects), and considering that Enchanced Armaments class feature is gone, how about renaming them Armament Effects, which can be divided between Device and Costume? I hope would reduce the confusion.

Snowfire
2013-08-01, 04:44 AM
So, now that we agreed that Costume Effects are a misnomer (considering there are both Costume Costume Effects and Device Costume Effects), and considering that Enhanced Armaments class feature is gone, how about renaming them Armament Effects, which can be divided between Device and Costume? I hope would reduce the confusion.

I'd certainly agree with that, but I think we're waiting on Sel to fully update the conversion. I think it'll be something like that (unless Champions get something entirely new to replace EAs) but we can't really be certain.

Raineh Daze
2013-08-01, 07:00 AM
I'm now trying to work out if Marksman devices are meant to count as light weapons, otherwise Twinned Device is somewhat hard to use for its obvious purpose. :smallconfused:

Snowfire
2013-08-01, 08:01 AM
I'm now trying to work out if Marksman devices are meant to count as light weapons, otherwise Twinned Device is somewhat hard to use for its obvious purpose. :smallconfused:

Considering the damage they deal, I'd be inclined to say yes, but it's not been stated as far as I can tell.

Amechra
2013-08-02, 10:09 AM
Alright, I randomly decided that this would be a fun feat (plus, working on a class that could use it.)

Radiant Action [Action]
You have a surprise burst of Motes deep inside yourself that can be pulled from in times of need.
Benefit: You may spend an action point to add a number of Motes to your Mote pool according the following table. This cannot increase the number of Motes you have in your pool past the normal maximum.

{table=head]Evoker Level|Number of Motes Added
1-7|2
8-14|4
15-20|6[/table]

sreservoir
2013-08-02, 11:53 AM
why not just scale as 2 + floor (EL/4)

Amechra
2013-08-02, 04:35 PM
Could work...

Also, am I the only one who thinks that the Power of Friendship rules would A. be great at replacing the base Diplomacy rules, and B. be great at replacing the standard crafting rules?

For the Crafting one, you just need to transfer it over to being an Intelligence check. You could get DC reductions from using extra materials, using higher quality base stuff, using proper tools, and from having an example to work from.

I will have to muse a bit more about this...

caledscratcher
2013-08-03, 10:16 PM
Well, this is a concept that I've been tossing around for a few weeks, and I figured that I might as well type it up and post it. I present, the second fan-made ToR base class, the Interceptor! (Note: This was made with Pathfinder skills and Magic Item Creation rules in mind, given that I'm more fond of Pathfinder's skills and know very little of 3.5e's Magic Item rules.)


Interceptor
"Please, stop.. I'm begging you- please don't do this to your friends. You are hurting them. I know that deep down you are not the type of guy who'll do this.." - Reedus, a proud interceptor, right before launching a glowing boar from the wall he formed to protect his supposed foes from their master.
The interceptor is an interesting magical girl, in that her powers come not from a celestial body, but from the eternally shining light of knowledge. Additionally, the onset of their devotion to light frequently comes after an exhausting pursuit of knowledge, which could have ended in quitting. However, she will experience a revelation, allowing her to see the incredible power in knowledge, the power to help - or to hurt.

Interceptors are devoted to knowledge first and their beliefs a very close second. If she strongly belives in respecting those close to you, then harming a loved one will unleash the full arsanel of intellect upon you. If she defines a good individual by the lengths by which they go to protect their friends, then ignoring an ally's plight will result in your every defense being shattered. If she despises tyrants, then the mistreatment of your subjects can only end in your demise.

Making an Interceptor:

Abilities: An interceptor harnesses the power of the light through scholarly pursuits, so Intelligence is by far her most important ability. Second comes Constitution, for the purposes of not dying with her relatively low hit dice. Given the armaments she has access to, Dextetiry is third.

Role: An interceptor is, as with all evokers, a flexible and powerful combatant. Her ability to fuse categories of illuminations together, combined with her sigil and her multitude of weaponry, makes her an unpredictable combatant. Above all else, however, she assists her allies, being able to create armaments for those who cannot use them, increase their power by channeling luminous might, and so on and so forth.

Races: Members of any race can rise to the role of interceptor, but it is found most commonly amongst those who see intellectual pursuits as inferior to martial prowess. None know why, but it's theorized that the determination to embrace her love against all odds - the triggering event for many a future interceptor - is more frequent amongst those who are constantly denied the option by their own kind.

Alignment: Unlike most evokers, the interceptor is frequently neutral, rather than good. This is typically because idealism is just as ineffectual for a scholar as cynicism, with a realistic worldview being most beneficial. They also tend to be lawful, given the discipline needed to go against all odds in the pursuit of knowledge. However, interceptors can be of any alignment.

Starting Gold: As bard

Starting Age: Most champions come into their power early, perhaps out of the innocence of childhood. When rolling for age, roll as a Bard - but subtract the total from adult age rather than adding it (to a minimum of half an adult’s age). If rules are in place that would reduce the statistics of child characters, the champion is exempt from them.

Class Skill List: Appraise (Int), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Dex), Knowledge (All, taken individually), Linguistics (Int), Perception (Wis), Profession, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device (Cha).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) x4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier.

Hit Dice: d6
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Illuminations Known|Illuminations Readied

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Radiant Armaments, Merciful, Form Pearl|
4|
1

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3|The Power of Friendship, Radiant Sigil, Channel Luminous Might 1/day|
4|
1

3rd|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+3|Encrypt Advanced Pearl|
5|
2

4th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4|Blend Illuminations (2)|
5|
2

5th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4|Channel Luminous Might 2/day|
6|
2

6th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+5| |
6|
3

7th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+5|Empower Armaments (2 Effects)|
7|
3

8th|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+6|Channel Luminous Might 3/day, Blend Illuminations (3)|
7|
3

9th|
+4|
+3|
+3|
+6|Empower Armaments (3 Effects)|
8|
4

10th|
+5|
+3|
+3|
+7|Conscript Armaments|
8|
4

11th|
+5|
+3|
+3|
+7|Channel Luminous Might 4/day|
9|
4

12th|
+6/+1|
+4|
+4|
+8|Blend Illuminations (4), Empower Armaments (4 Effects)|
9|
5

13th|
+6/+1|
+4|
+4|
+8| |
10|
5

14th|
+7/+2|
+4|
+4|
+9|Channel Luminous Might 5/day, Artificial Cartridge|
10|
5

15th|
+7/+2|
+5|
+5|
+9|Empower Armaments (5 Effects)|
11|
6

16th|
+8/+3|
+5|
+5|
+10|Blend Illuminations (5)|
11|
6

17th|
+8/+3|
+5|
+5|
+10|Channel Luminous Might 6/day|
12|
6

18th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+6|
+11|Empower Armaments (6 Effects)|
12|
7

19th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+6|
+11| |
13|
7

20th|
+10/+5|
+6|
+6|
+12|Knowledge Apotheosis, Channel Luminous Might 7/day, Blend Illuminations (6)|
13|
7[/table]

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: The interceptor is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and with light armor, but not with any shields.

Illuminations: Infused as they are with the power of light, an interceptor is capable of crafting and calling upon powerful manifestations of radiant energy known as Illuminations. An interceptor knows a fixed number of illuminations, and may change any number of her known illuminations freely each time she gains a level in this class. To use her known illuminations, an interceptor must first prepare them – preparing illuminations is a simple process requiring five minutes of introspection, weapons drills, or some other mentally relaxing activity. Once her preparation is complete, the stargazer may choose a number of her known illuminations to ready. Readied illuminations remain readied until the stargazer prepares new ones.

Illuminations are explained more completely in their own section.

Radiant Armaments (Su): Upon awakening to the radiance within her soul, an interceptor establishes a bond with a particular weapon and suit of armor. How an interceptor finds the armaments that are hers by right varies widely; she may stumble upon them in a dream, only to awake clutching them in hand, or she might find them in the crater left behind by a falling star, but they always appear within a week of attaining her first level in this class. She may only take devices of the tricky, versatile, bolt, or marksman archetypes, and she may only take a light costume.

Radiant Armaments are described more completely in their own section.

Merciful (Ex): Whenever an interceptor deals damage with an attack or an Illumination, she may choose to deal non-lethal damage instead with no penalty to attack or damage rolls.

Form Pearl: The interceptor gains Form Pearl as a bonus feat at first level, even if she does not meet the prerequisites.

Power of Friendship: An interceptor is capable of swaying the alignment of captured foes, as described in the Power of Friendship section below.

Additionally, a interceptor may hasten the conversion process through the heartfelt brilliance that lies in a handmade gift. An interceptor may create an item with a Craft check with a DC equal to the DC of the redemption check. If she succeeds and presents it at the beginning of a session of redemption, she reduces the DC of the following check by 2 (if it fits the creature's interests). However, if the crafted item is something that the creature is indifferent towards, the DC is unchanged, and the DC is increased by 2 if it is something the creature would dislike. If she creates an item with special properties, the DC is shifted by up to the number of properties + the total enchantment bonus. Every property that the creature would like reduces the DC by 1 (2 if it's something they would especially like), every property that the creature is indifferent towards doesn't change the DC, and every property that the creature would dislike increases the DC by 1 (2 if it's something they would especially dislike). The DC is always shifted by an amount equal to base enchantment bonus, reducing if the creature likes the object and increasing if the creature dislikes the object. If the creature is indifferent towards the object, it isn't shifted any more because of the enchantment bonus. This may only be done once per character level.

Radiant Sigil: At 2nd level, an interceptor becomes gifted with an additional item, going hand-in-hand with her device and costume. This item is the sigil, a symbol that represents who the inerceptor is as an individual, and enabling her to channel luminous might. The three archetypes of sigil are as follows:

Accessory: The accessory is typically a pendant, circlet, or something along those lines. When the interceptor channels luminous might, it forms in a cone equal to her interceptor level * 5'.
Tattoo: The tattoo is inscribed on the interceptor's flesh, preventing it from being lost. When she channels luminous might, it forms with a range of personal, but all bonuses are multiplied by two.
Piercing: The piercing is embedded in the interceptor's skin, but can still be removed if need be. When she channels luminous might, it forms with a range of a sphere out to her interceptor level * 2.5', rounded down to the nearest 5' increment.

Channel Luminous Might (Su): At 2nd level, an interceptor can use her radiant sigil to channel an unmistakable shining power. This may be done 1/day at 2nd level, and once more per day every three levels thereafter. She may choose from any of the following effects when she activates this ability, and it lasts for a number of rounds equal to half her class level + her Intelligence modifier.
Accuracy: +2 bonus to attack rolls.
Might: +2 bonus to damage rolls.
Agility: +2 dodge bonus to AC.
Defense: +2 armor bonus to AC.
Insulation: +2 energy resistance (all types).

Encrypt Advanced Pearl (Su): At 3rd level, an interceptor gains the ability to encrypt an advanced form of a radiant pearl. Rather than holding a single illumination, it holds a number of illumination ranks up to her evoker level + (2 * her Intelligence modifier). Each rank must be from a component that is part of an illumination that she knows when she encrypts the pearl. She may put any number of ranks of a single component, up to a maximum of her Intelligence modifier. Encrypting an advanced pearl takes the same amount of time as forming a pearl, and the DC is equal to 8 + the total mote cost of all of the ranks.

When an evoker uses an advanced pearl, she evokes a single illumination, and replaces the shape or foundation component with any number of ranks of a component in the advanced pearl that is of the corresponding component type and of the corresponding base type. Alternatively, she may add any number of ranks of secondary components to the illumination. Just as with a normal pearl, the motes for those rank are provided by the pearl, and the ranks are removed from the pearl.

Any character can use an advanced pearl that contains ranks of all three component types that belong to the same base type, by using ranks from each component type.

Blend Illuminations (Su): At 4th level, an interceptor can merge two different base types of illuminations together into a much greater effect. She gains two types of blends at 4th level, and one additional type every four levels thereafter. Each blend costs a number of motes equal to the base cost of the illumination * 1.5. The types of blends are listed below:

Blast/Barrier: The interceptor hits a creature with a blast and they are treated as being affected by a single negative barrier foundation effect with cost equal to half the cost of the blast used. The space(s) that the creature occupies are treated as the interior of the barrier, and the perimeter of the area that that creature takes up is treated as the edge of the barrier.
Blast/Surge: The interceptor hits a creature with a blast and they are treated as being affected by a single negative surge foundation effect with cost equal to half the cost of the blast used.

Barrier/Blast: One square of the edge of the barrier becomes a turret, attacking any hostile creatures with a single blast foundation effect with the cascade shape, with the foundation effect's cost being equal to half the cost of the barrier used.
Barrier/Surge: The interior of the barrier provides the effects of one positive surge foundation effect with cost equal to half the cost of the barrier used, in addition to the normal effects.

Surge/Blast: For the duration of the surge, a number of affected creatures up to half the cost of the surge used gain the ability to evoke a single blast illumination with the assault shape, with the foundation effect's cost being 1. Alternatively, the number of creatures affected can be lowered, with each affected creature less than the maximum amount causing one granted illumination's foundation effect's cost to increase by 1.
Surge/Barrier: For the duration of the surge, a number of affected creatures up to half the cost of the surge being used are treated as being affected by a single negative barrier foundation effect with a cost of 1. The space(s) that the creatures occupy are treated as the interior of the barrier, and the perimeter of the area that each creature takes up is treated as the edge of the barrier. Alternatively, the number of creatures affected can be lowered, with each affected creature less than the maximum amount causing one granted illumination's foundation effect's cost to increase by 1.

Empower Armaments (Su): At 7th level, an interceptor gains the ability to empower radiant armaments. This functions as Craft Magic Arms and Armor, except that it uses her evoker level rather than her caster level, and instead of adding enhancement bonuses, it adds permanent costume effects. For every day that she works on it, she removes a number of motes from her mote pool until her next extended rest, equal to the number of motes permanently invested in that costume effect. She can add 2 permanent costume effects at 7th level, which increases to 3 at 9th level. The maximum number of permanent costume effects she can add increases by one at 12th level, and every three levels thereafter.

Conscript Armaments (Su): At 10th level, the interceptor gains the ability to use her empower armaments class feature on mundane masterwork weaponry. Said conscripted armaments have a maximum number of permanent costume effects added equal to the typical maximum -1. Conscripted armaments may be used by any creature that is proficient with that type of weapon or armor.

Artificial Cartridge (Su): At 14th level, the interceptor can use her empower armaments class feature to provide one costume effect with a cartridge boost effect that is usable for a number of consecutive rounds per day equal to her Intelligence modifier at the time of crafting. An artificial cartridge effect is treated as a single permanent costume effect.

Knowledge Apotheosis (Su): At 20th level, an interceptor forevermore becomes a Native Outsider with one alignment subtype of her choice and an Augmented subtype pertaining to her previous type, with all the traits that implies. Further, she can no longer be aged by any means mundane or magical, and will never die of old age.

Additionally, she gains four bonus item creation feats, each with a prerequisite of a caster/manifester/evoker/initiator/technician/etc. level of a maximum of 13. She ignores all other prerequisites, and uses her evoker level in place of any other levels for the purposes of those feats.. These feats may not have have more than one prerequisite of a caster/manifester/evoker/initiator/technician/etc. level. (i.e. she may not take any feat that requires a caster level of 3 and a manifester level of 5, or any other combination of two types of levels.) However, there is the exception of one of two class-category level prerequisites being evoker level.

Interceptor Components Available:

Blast Components:
Foundation:
Clinging, Power, Flare
Shape:
Chains, Explosion, Beam, Imbue
Secondary:
Horizon, Prism, Sharpshooting, Vile

Barrier Components:
Foundation:
Carnage, Shadows, Shelter, Zone
Shape:
Dominions, Borders, Strongholds
Secondary:
Pilgrimmage, Returning, Ancients, Anchors

Surge Components:
Foundation:
Battles, Denunciations, Isolation, Might
Shape:
Awakening, Bolts, Pulses
Secondary:
Amplitude, Awe, Echoes, Promises

New Item Creation Feat:
Form Pearl
Prerequisites: evoker level 3rd
Benefit: You gain the ability to form radiant pearls. This process is much the same to scribing a scroll, and it takes the same amount of time. However, rather than storing a single spell, a pearl stores uses of a single illumination. As part of crafting a pearl, you select one illumination you know to store in it, and lose a number of motes until your next extended rest equal to the illumination's cost multiplied by the number of uses of that illumination that you put into the pearl. The maximum number of uses of an illumination that can be put in a pearl is equal to 1/4 of the mote cost multiplied by her evoker level, rounded up. Any character can make a Spellcraft check (DC 10 + stored illumination's mote cost) to evoke an illumination from a pearl, but evokers get a +2 radiant bonus on this check. Once all uses of a pearl's illumination have been used, it dissipates into luminant energy. The total cost of forming a pearl is equivalent to the half of the amount of motes expended each day * 200 gp.

As a note, I did all of the writing, most of the class abilities, all of the calculations, and most of the brainstorming over the course of the past seven hours. I took a total of about two hours of breaks, but it basically all boils down to me being downright exhausted. I'll try to stay online for an extra hour or so, so as to respond to any feedback and crit, but no promises.

Lix Lorn
2013-08-03, 10:28 PM
This is interesting, but the question I ask is why is it a base class?
I mean, the position of illumination specialist is taken my stargazer...

that aside, it's really good. (the table is broken at level 7)

Draken
2013-08-03, 10:39 PM
More pressingly. What is the (Ra) classification of abilities supposed to be?

The_Admiral
2013-08-03, 10:40 PM
I think something happened to the Enhanced Armaments section.

Draken
2013-08-03, 11:09 PM
I think something happened to the Enhanced Armaments section.

Selinia is rewriting Radiant Armaments and decided to post ahead of time an unfinished version of it, which does not include Enhanced Armaments anymore.

She just didn't erase everything properly.

caledscratcher
2013-08-03, 11:33 PM
This is interesting, but the question I ask is why is it a base class?
I mean, the position of illumination specialist is taken my stargazer...

that aside, it's really good. (the table is broken at level 7)

To your question, that is mainly because I like base classes. A lot. And I'm not too great at making PrCs.

However, it isn't that much of an illumination specialist. In my mind, I saw it as a radiant artificer, with the illuminations known and readied of the champion (and a quite limited list of components available), with the blending of illuminations basically being (at least fluff-wise): "These things are so logically similar that it'd be a crime to not slam them together!"

Oh, and thank you!


More pressingly. What is the (Ra) classification of abilities supposed to be?

I probably should've bolded it in my little intro thing, but they're basically Su abilities that function in an antimagic field, because they're derived from (Ra)diance rather than standard supernatural things.

Draken
2013-08-04, 10:37 AM
Hmm... That is basically (Ex), a completely extraneous new classification, really. Specially since baseline radiant power for Evoker classes is simply Supernatural.

In fact, such a classification outdoes the Stargazer's own mastery since that class only achieves such an effect with its capstone, Starlight Apotheosis.

caledscratcher
2013-08-04, 11:34 AM
@Draken: Oh... well, then Su would be best then. I'll change it right now~

sreservoir
2013-08-05, 09:10 AM
radiant pearls don't have a cost.

also, could you drop down to at most one nest of spoilers? it's especially bad in the illumination components, where the spoiler block takes up more space than the actual text would, but in general too much spoiler nesting makes navigation hard.

caledscratcher
2013-08-05, 01:44 PM
@sresevoir: Oh, right. Both should be fixed now~

Falcon777
2013-08-05, 02:06 PM
So i love this class, i love it so much. I have always adored magical girl shows, but no one else i know seems remotely interested in even reading it to see if its balanced or not. Can anyone think of any kind of advice for getting people to actually read these classes.

Ah, so I'm not the only one concerned about the extreme lengths this thread goes to emphasize the feminine pronoun and how such emphasis really likely is reducing the number people interested in this homebrew material.

My response? Remove the emphasis and include male pronouns every so often. Also change the name of the group of classes from Magical Girls to Light-wielders. One might ask how I can say this when there's a huge theme running here about fluff being important and how all of this material is inspired by heroine shows (likely mostly anime) like Sailor Moon.

My answer to the question is as thus:
1: There isn't any actual gender requirement (yet) for characters taking these classes.
2. The fluff of the feat Craft Soulbond states that one type of existing bond is that of romance. Now I know that there are quite a few people out there that would state that homosexual relationships are just as romantic as heterosexual, but the vast majority of people are at least uninterested in homosexual relationships, if not actually turned off/disgusted by such actions. As such, since the Craft Soulbond feat requires both characters to have levels in some lightwielder class, the fluff is either encouraging homosexual behavior or it allows for male lightwielders.
3. A boy cannot be a girl, magical or otherwise, and a girl cannot be a boy, magical or otherwise. This is the nature of genders.
4. Light is asexual, as in neither female nor male nor any weird transgender thingiemabob. Apart from the fluff of the classes, there's not really anything in the ToR that's actually feminine. Or rather, I could say that none of the mechanics of the ToR (yes, that includes power of friendship) are feminine.
5. The Power of Friendship theme may SEEM more feminine, but the truth is that a guy is just as capable of affecting a person as a girl is. Boys and Men in general are less social, but we aren't all socially inept.
6. Is the emphasis on the inspiration of the classes really worth turning away a largely male audience that want to play as male characters?

Ultimately it doesn't matter to me whether or not you change anything about the ToR's female emphasis as I will be attempting to play a male lightwielder stargazer who gets married to a female lightwielder champion with both characters subsequently taking the craft soulbond feat...if I can get a dm to let me play as such and if there's another player interested in said concept and willing to play the female character.

Now with that out of the way, I'll give my thoughts about the Tome of Radiance as a whole:

First off, I'm a pathfinder guy, not D&D, so when I see things like spot or hide or concentration as skills I immediately either think of the Pathfinder equivalent or I ignore them. Pathfinder conversions pretty please with sugar on top? :smallbiggrin:

Champion seems a lot like a paladin, though with a much weaker emphasis on healing and striking out against undead and a lot more about cool weapons and burst light effects. I know that the armaments portion of the Tome is getting a rewrite, but I'm slightly confused about enhanced armaments: does this mean that the champion gets bonus abilities in addition to the larger number they get by default? Or is this just another way of saying that the champion gets more armament abilities? Overall, very interesting and personally I'd be more quick to play a champion than a paladin.

Stargazer is more of where it is at for me as several years ago I changed my preference from martial to magical concerning playable fantasy characters. The number of illuminations known and readied by comparison to the other lightwielder classes makes this class the "wizard" class of the group (even without the focus on int), but the sheer number of spells known by arcane classes outstrips this class by an incredibly large margin.

Given the complex nature of making illuminations (the mechanics, not the visuals), I am not qualified to say how this class could compare to a pathfinder arcane or draconic sorcerer (for overall effectiveness and blasting power respectively). I don't think anyone would realistically approach the stargazer class and attempt to compare it to a wizard, but if the stargazer cannot at the very least give a pathfinder sorcerer a run for his money, then all you are gaining by taking this class is fluff. Now don't get me wrong, the role play potential here and the sheer emphasis on light is COMPLETELY up my alley, but personally if I'm going to play a "caster," I want to be able to fill that role at least moderately well. The stargazer seems like it might be able to do that, but I honestly can't tell. Is there anyone that could look at this guide for pathfinder sorcerer optimization (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2o8s2?A-Quick-Guide-to-Pathfinder-Sorcerers) and compare it to the stargazer class to say whether or not a stargazer could realistically take the place of a sorcerer and still do well at the role?

Also, does Starlight Apotheosis mean that a stargazer's illuminations cannot be dispelled/disjunctioned? If so that is quite strong and goes a long way towards making a capstoned stargazer being able to compete with more traditional mages.

There's one other thing about the stargazer that kind of rubs me wrong. It seems to me that the stargazer is the "caster" class of the group, and as such a stargazer would, more than the empath or the champion, be willing to give up continually spending motes on their equipment in favor of dishing out the strongest illuminations every single turn. The sheer variety of weapons available along with the decently strong armor a stargazer can don really is the only thing it has going for it to give it any kind of melee capability; it can still do it, and probably fairly well, but that's not the focus of the class. Given that you can only spend half of your replenishable motes on any combination of illuminations per turn, that means that you have half of your motes to give to your equipment per turn.

Aaaaaaaaand then you have a bonus pool of motes (luminous reservoir) that can only be spent on illuminations...despite the fact that you cannot spend all of your regular motes each turn on illuminations anyways. :smallconfused: What this means is that you effectively are actually being given extra motes to spend on your equipment. This seems both counterintuitive and counterproductive to the purpose of the of luminous reservoir. Perhaps a stargazer could have an ability that would let them "overcharge" their illuminations using their luminous reservoir? Or perhaps if you were to implement "meta-illumination" feats, the extra cost could be supplied by the luminous reservoir for a sorcerer-like at need change? Just some ideas.

Oh, as an aside, it seems to me that the ToR desperately needs meta-illumination feats for blaster focus characters. It's been stated ad nauseum that regular blasting in D&D and Pathfinder sucks by comparison to the other magic available and that the only real way for blaster casters to compete is to use metamagic. Now, I don't honestly know how blast illuminations compare to something like chain lightning since there already seems to be (in a manner of speaking) built in options for "meta-magic" for illuminations. However, I do see that there aren't any comparable options to at least three very important metamagic feats to a blaster caster: empower, maximize, and quicken. If there were comparable feats for a lightwielder it would go a long way towards helping a blaster heavy lightwielder, regardless of whether your character is a stargazer, a champion, an empath, or some combination/prestige class.

Ok, back to the Tome review.

The empath's multiple persona's strikes me as being a bit too close to schizophrenia to really grab my attention. Sorry. :smallfrown:

As far as the illumination crafting system itself: very nicely done! I like it a lot. There does seem to be a distinct lack of any kind of teleportation/long range movement bonuses without taking a prestige class, which seems like an oversight. Sure, there's the aerial mage and the firekeeper, but frankly I don't want to have to take a prestige class just so that I can get from one continent to another with ease. Perhaps this is just me, but yeah, seems to be a bit of a lack there.

The radiant armaments is a very strong point for this tome. Regardless of what class you take there's a very good bit of flexibility there, which is like a deep breath after having been underwater for a long time. Even for the stargazer who is going to emphasize his illuminations over his equipment the costume and device effects are not something he can completely ignore. Well done.

The extra feats section is very interesting, though it'd be nice to see more done that could effect illuminations (coughcoughmetamagiccoughcough). I really like mortal miracle and the whole soulbond line of feats. Very nicely done.

The Power of Friendship section is quite well done, and I like how each of the base classes has their own special way of going about it (at least to a certain extent).

I'll hit up prestige classes in my next post so I don't have too many smiley faces in this one, lol.




That being said, the Tome of Radiance is very, very interesting!

DrakeRaids
2013-08-05, 02:24 PM
oh god social justice warriors have made it to GITP

Lix Lorn
2013-08-05, 02:25 PM
The entire point of the class was to make a d&d class based on magical girls.
If anyone is pushed away from it because they're upset by an excess of female pronouns, frankly, if it were my class, I wouldn't want them using my material anyway.

As for stargazers, you misread the mote rules. You can't spend more than (evoker level) motes on illuminations of a specific type per round, eg blasts, or surges. You can spend your maximum by using one blast, one surge.