Attack of opportunity and touch attacks

[etrpgb]

Easy and quick...

Can I use a (Su) touch attack (e.g., a monster special ability) as an attack of opportunity?

I read the SRD manual here, but I am not still sure.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/attacksOfOpportunity.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatStatistics.htm#armorClass

I think you can however....

Dear hive mind of the giant... help!

[only1doug]

that depends on the ability in question I think.

A Wraith (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/wraith.htm) would make an incorporeal touch attack as its attack of opportunity and that attack would deal (SU) constitution drain.

But an attack that required a standard action trigger would probably not be able to be used as an attack of opportunity (I haven't looked for examples but if it isn't part of the creatures full attack routine then I'd probably say no).

[TuggyNE]

If you can use the attack as an attack action, yes. Otherwise, only1doug is right: standard actions don't work for AoOs (and Su abilities default to standard actions unless otherwise mentioned).

What monster and ability is in question here?

[etrpgb]

I would like a general answer, but the problem come out from the ``Charnel Touch (Su)'' of the dread necromancer.

[only1doug]

Charnal touch, at will but no more than once per round ...

I don't have any rules to back up my opinion on this matter but i would say no, that ability requires an effort to activate (it's not always on) and therefore it cannot be used with an attack of opportunity unless the Dread necromancer had taken an action during his previous turn to activate the charnal touch against the eventuality of an attack of opportunity presenting itself.

[etrpgb]

...also a normal melee attack is not ``always on''. What do you mean?

[only1doug]

A sword can be sheathed or in the hand, can a fighter make an attack of opportunity with a sheathed sword? What about if he has quickdraw feat? I'd say no, he has to use a weapon in his hand.

A cleric has cause moderate wounds, he has cast it but not yet disharged it. Can he use it for an attack of opportunity? Yes.
If he could cast it as a swift action could he use it for an attack of opportunity? No. Swift actions have to be taken in the users own turn.

[Medic!]

The best way to look at it is that if you could do it multiple times because of a high BAB, you can do it on an AoO. With a touch attack you could hold the charge, then discharge it on an AoO, but you couldn't do the entire dude from scratch.

[Axier]

My interpretation says yes, but only if you have not used it within the round.

Charnel Touch is an At Will. It does not take time to activate, essentially, it just has a cool down effect. The problem is that you don't threaten the other spaces with it. With Improved Unarmed Strike, you threaten unarmed, and you also, with my interpretation of IUS, can combine Charnel Touch, which is an at will touch attack, with an Unarmed Strike (although this interpretation may be off, it also makes charnel touch a non-touch attack).

There is, by my interpretation, no reason to think that it can't be used as an AoO, unless it has been used once during that round. i.e.; You use it to heal yourself or your undead minion this turn, and then you get provoked for an AoO, you cant use it. However, you don't use it that round before the AoO, then you should be good to go.

[Gwendol]

A sword can be sheathed or in the hand, can a fighter make an attack of opportunity with a sheathed sword? What about if he has quickdraw feat? I'd say no, he has to use a weapon in his hand.

A cleric has cause moderate wounds, he has cast it but not yet disharged it. Can he use it for an attack of opportunity? Yes.
If he could cast it as a swift action could he use it for an attack of opportunity? No. Swift actions have to be taken in the users own turn.

Actually, he can (sort of): he just needs the sudden draw skill trick (which has QuickDraw as a prereq).
You are right though: the creature has to be "armed" to be able to make the AoO.

[Answerer]

Charnel Touch can be "held" the way some touch attack spells can, since it works with spectral hand. As such, while holding it, you are armed and can make attacks with it, including Attacks of Opportunity. You can only make one attack per round with it, though, so if you use it on your turn you cannot use it for an AoO.

Personally, I wouldn't require a Dread Necromancer to explicitly state he's holding a Charnel Touch or anything like that; since "charging" it is effectively a free action, there's no reason why he couldn't or shouldn't end every turn by doing so, so I'd be fine with him just being able to charge and attack with it normally.

This would, of course, effectively make a Dread Necromancer who hadn't used his Charnel Touch that round "always armed," but since they're a half-BAB caster class I wouldn't worry about it too greatly.


Actually, he can (sort of): he just needs the sudden draw skill trick (which has QuickDraw as a prereq).
You are right though: the creature has to be "armed" to be able to make the AoO.
An armed creature could use Quick Draw to draw and attack with the drawn weapon on an Attack of Opportunity though.

[Gwendol]

An armed creature could use Quick Draw to draw and attack with the drawn weapon on an Attack of Opportunity though.

Care to elaborate on this? I'm not sure you can based on:

Threatened Squares
You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your action. Generally, that means everything in all squares adjacent to your space (including diagonally). An enemy that takes certain actions while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity from you. If you’re unarmed, you don’t normally threaten any squares and thus can’t make attacks of opportunity.

[Answerer]

Hmm... pardon me, I'll amend my statement to say that you can if you allow Free Actions at any time you could normally act, rather than only on your turn. IIRC there's some ambiguity on that point.

The Attack of Opportunity rules aren't really relevant, though. You're armed, so you threaten and therefore get to take the attack. As a Free Action, you can maybe (considering the above) draw your other weapon before taking it (with the newly-drawn weapon).

[Gwendol]

My interpretation of the rules is that you can make AoO's with the weapon(s) you threaten with at the time of the provoking action (including held touch attack spells), unless you have special tricks like the one I mentioned above.

[Answerer]

My interpretation of the rules is that you can make AoO's with the weapon(s) you threaten with at the time of the provoking action (including held touch attack spells), unless you have special tricks like the one I mentioned above.
You'd think that, but I have yet to find any thing that actually says it. In fact, if you had a melee weapon in one hand, and a thrown weapon or a one-handed ranged weapon in the other hand, I can't find any rules saying that you could not take the attack of opportunity with the ranged weapon, so long as the one provoking it was within the threat range of the melee weapon.

[Invader]

A sword can be sheathed or in the hand, can a fighter make an attack of opportunity with a sheathed sword? What about if he has quickdraw feat? I'd say no, he has to use a weapon in his hand.

A cleric has cause moderate wounds, he has cast it but not yet disharged it. Can he use it for an attack of opportunity? Yes.
If he could cast it as a swift action could he use it for an attack of opportunity? No. Swift actions have to be taken in the users own turn.

Just curious, is there a rule somewhere that says a swift action can only be used on your turn? I thought there were specific crusader swift actions that you could use whenever you wanted?

[eggs]

Just curious, is there a rule somewhere that says a swift action can only be used on your turn? I thought there were specific crusader swift actions that you could use whenever you wanted?
That's the difference between Swift and Immediate actions.

Swift by its definition can be taken any time you could take a Free action (ie. in your turn); Immediate can be performed at any time.

[Invader]

That's the difference between Swift and Immediate actions.

Swift by its definition can be taken any time you could take a Free action (ie. in your turn); Immediate can be performed at any time.

I know the difference but again I don't see anywhere where it says you can only take a free action or a swift action during your turn?

[eggs]

Rules compendium p7

EDIT: Also, the player's handbook defines all free actions as occurring specifically on a character's turn on page 135, so it's not one of the places where the rules compendium/primary source quirk crops up.

[Khedrac]

Apologies if someone already pointed this out, but I resorted to just scanning the last few posts:

One may only take an Attack of Opportunity if one threatens the subject, also the AoO has to be with a "weapon" that threatens.

So -
sheathed sword? - no it does not threaten regardless of Quick Draw.
Uncast at-will ability? - no it does not threaten.
Holding the charge ability? - yes - offensive spells for which one is "holding the charge" do threaten.

[Gwendol]

You'd think that, but I have yet to find any thing that actually says it. In fact, if you had a melee weapon in one hand, and a thrown weapon or a one-handed ranged weapon in the other hand, I can't find any rules saying that you could not take the attack of opportunity with the ranged weapon, so long as the one provoking it was within the threat range of the melee weapon.

That specific case I'd say would be left to the DM to decide.

Khedrac: quite right with the exception of the Hidden Blade skill trick which allows a scoundrel to draw and make an AoO with a hidden weapon.

[Answerer]

the AoO has to be with a "weapon" that threatens.
[Citation Needed]

The rules say you must threaten the creature. They then say you may make an attack of opportunity, which is defined as a melee attack.

It does not say that the threatening weapon needs to be the weapon you make the attack with.


That specific case I'd say would be left to the DM to decide.
Ultimately, everything is, but this is not a case of ambiguous rules that demand a judgment call by the DM. The rules, as written, are clear and usable. They just don't behave the way you might intuitively expect them to.

That said, the attack of opportunity is defined as a melee attack, so my thing about ranged weapons is probably wrong.

But you could definitely threaten someone with a sword, and then decide to punch them instead, even though your punches don't threaten because you don't have Improved Unarmed Strike.

[Allanimal]

Holding the charge ability? - yes - offensive spells for which one is "holding the charge" do threaten.

Where does it say that? I looked thru my rules compendium but didn't find it. I admit freely that I may have missed it.

[ericgrau]

It basically boils down to AoO's grant an attack action not a standard action nor any other action type. If any ability, including any ability you attack with, requires a standard or move or swift action then you can't use it in an AoO. If it's an immediate action you can use it but then you usually can without an AoO unless the ability says otherwise.

This is also why you can trip, grapple, disarm or sunder as an AoO; those are attacks.

Attacking with a held touch spell is also an attack so that works. The rules that say you threaten are in the magic section of the player's handbook. It's also here in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#touchSpellsinCombat) under "Touch Attacks". And here in the combat rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/attacksOfOpportunity.htm#threatenedSquares) if you need further clarification on what being armed and able to make melee attacks lets you do.