Epic Bard!....now what?

[Eonir]

So I'm currently running a high level game in which I am a bard9/Lyric Thaumaturgthing10. We'll be hitting 20 next session and I have no idea what do take. I would prefer another level of casting, but bard 10 is BORING. And once I get there I have NO CLUE what do do for epic level. Paladin of Freedom 2? Starting taking wizard? I have no idea.

Help me.

Info that may be helpful: Anything except third party goes. I'm an outsider. I use a bow mostly. Bonus points and a hug if you find a way to make it outsider or fey flavored.

Tl;dr- What should I start taking levels in as a 20th level bard?

[Acanous]

Um. You want Spells? Do you meet the Prereq's for Sublime Chord?

[Hirax]

One level in mindbender makes everything better. It gets talked up a lot as a means of getting the mindsight feat, but really, telepathy is useful enough that it's worth it on its own.

[Eonir]

Um. You want Spells? Do you meet the Prereq's for Sublime Chord?

Yes, and I know Sublime Chord is awesome, but we already have a wizard and a psion. I feel at this point ANOTHER full caster is just beating a dead horse.



One level in mindbender makes everything better. It gets talked up a lot as a means of getting the mindsight feat, but really, telepathy is useful enough that it's worth it on its own.

Indeed, but alas, I am Chaotic Good. :smallcool:

[Feralventas]

Lyric Thaumaterge is a fun PrC, but Sublime Chord is usually the more potent option by level 13 and forward. Since you've completed the LT PrC, what Sorc/Wizard spells did you pick?

Virtuoso is another solid PrC to start into, but like Sublime Chord, I'm not sure your build facilitates the prerequisites.

A Dip in Crusader would grant you an Initiator level of 10 (1/2 HD of non crusader levels rounded down, +1 for the crusader 1). If you're playing support/buff as a bard, the White Raven school of maneuvers makes for a nice set of options.

Siren out of Savage Species might work depending on what spells you're casting.

With the 5th level ability of LT, you might be able to pull Elemental Savant, either by picking up Elemental Substitution or using the ability to Add sonic damage to any sonic spell as justification to mitigate it and be a varient air (sonic) elemental, or storm( thunder) elemental.

Stormsinger from Frostburn might have worked well for you, but like Sublime Chord is has a lot of skill requirements in addition to a couple of feats.

Abjurant Champion should work as long as you have Combat Casting.

[Eonir]

Lyric Thaumaterge is a fun PrC, but Sublime Chord is usually the more potent option by level 13 and forward. Since you've completed the LT PrC, what Sorc/Wizard spells did you pick?

Virtuoso is another solid PrC to start into, but like Sublime Chord, I'm not sure your build facilitates the prerequisites.

A Dip in Crusader would grant you an Initiator level of 10 (1/2 HD of non crusader levels rounded down, +1 for the crusader 1). If you're playing support/buff as a bard, the White Raven school of maneuvers makes for a nice set of options.

Siren out of Savage Species might work depending on what spells you're casting.

With the 5th level ability of LT, you might be able to pull Elemental Savant, either by picking up Elemental Substitution or using the ability to Add sonic damage to any sonic spell as justification to mitigate it and be a varient air (sonic) elemental, or storm( thunder) elemental.

Stormsinger from Frostburn might have worked well for you, but like Sublime Chord is has a lot of skill requirements in addition to a couple of feats.

Abjurant Champion should work as long as you have Combat Casting.

Benign Transposition
Spider Climb
Magic Circle Against Evil
Polymorph
Antimagic Field

Virtuoso I considered, the spellcasting doesn't really do me any more good though.

I'll look into Sirine and Stormsinger.

[Hirax]

Rather than another caster or bard class, if you can get yourself hold of planar zeppelin, or one of the other vehicles from the Planar Handbook, you could use that to qualify for legendary captain, if you're willing to also pick up leadership.

[Eonir]

Rather than another caster or bard class, if you can get yourself hold of planar zeppelin, or one of the other vehicles from the Planar Handbook, you could use that to qualify for legendary captain, if you're willing to also pick up leadership.

That could be fun. Astral naval combat? At Epic levels? What could possibly go wrong? :smallbiggrin:

[Randomguy]

You're going into epic levels. Casting's pretty much the best way to go at this point.

That being said, if you don't want to get more casting, you could consider Seeker of The Song, for more music and music powers but no more casting. Or for some more martial stuff, then maybe you could go War Chanter.

[Eonir]

You're going into epic levels. Casting's pretty much the best way to go at this point.

That being said, if you don't want to get more casting, you could consider Seeker of The Song, for more music and music powers but no more casting. Or for some more martial stuff, then maybe you could go War Chanter.

Casting how though? Let's say I go Sublime Chord. I'm not looking at 9th level spells until 27th level. I know casting is best, but I don't have the metamagic feats to properly make use of Improved Spell Capacity.

I was thinking maybe warlock for invocations and flavor? Crusader sounds nice, but I'm a range based bard. How does bow and maneuvers work out?

[Hirax]

Sure, optimizing spellcasting is the most powerful option, but it sounds like the rest of your party has casting covered. I'd just just find something to have fun with it.

[Alleran]

Casting how though? Let's say I go Sublime Chord. I'm not looking at 9th level spells until 27th level.
Actually, you should be able to crack it much earlier. Drop 307k gold on the Codex Hammer, an item from Dragon Magazine #297. You're epic level, so you can afford it. As long as you have the INT bonus and skill ranks to successfully study it (it's a DC 30 check, IIRC, and you can add your skill ranks in the relevant skill as a bonus on the roll), then it can give you more than two dozen bonus epic feats (actually, it grants Epic Skill Focus for particular skills regardless of whether you meet any prereqs, but these can be Chaos Shuffled away without any trouble).

Burn as many of them as you need to on Improved Spell Capacity, which should kick you up to 9th level spells. Then burn another one on Epic Spellcasting (making sure you have enough skill ranks to get it). After that, it's just a matter of finding more spells (or abusing Epic Spellcasting). The best part is that this won't consume too many of your resources, since the feats are all (effectively) bonus ones.

[Randomguy]

Casting how though? Let's say I go Sublime Chord. I'm not looking at 9th level spells until 27th level. I know casting is best, but I don't have the metamagic feats to properly make use of Improved Spell Capacity.


Good point. Although for the same reason you won't get much payoff from many other classes: War chanter doesn't get it's best ability until 10th level.

You also won't get the really good invocations for a while, but even some of the low level evocations, like shatter, can be really useful. But at your level getting an at will item of a low level spell shouldn't be too hard.

Seeker of the song gets small benefits at every level, so it might still be worth it though.

Legendary Captain seems like it would be a fun class. Dread Pirate (You don't need to be evil or a pirate for this) is an alternative, but it doesn't look as good, other than one ability that lets you add your Cha to a bunch of people's AC, but that doesn't come in until later levels. There's also Windwright Captain, but that's setting specific.

You could take Leadership -> epic leadership and make yourself a fleet. Make the lower level followers experts with lots of ranks in craft skills.

[Feralventas]

Casting how though? Let's say I go Sublime Chord. I'm not looking at 9th level spells until 27th level. I know casting is best, but I don't have the metamagic feats to properly make use of Improved Spell Capacity.

I was thinking maybe warlock for invocations and flavor? Crusader sounds nice, but I'm a range based bard. How does bow and maneuvers work out?

A dip in Warlock dip isn't a bad move; 60ft range is fine for in dungeons, and touch-attacks mean you can apply those nifty damage boosters like the ranged power-attack or dex-to-ranged damage bonuses, as well as your own bardic music and buffs. It's also an easy switch to melee via Eldritch Gliave, or permanent darkvision, deeper darkvision, or see invis all day if you want 'em.

As for Crusader, Devoted Spirit's maneuvers aren't the best for ranged combat IIRC, but if you take Warblade or Swordsage, Diamond Mind and Shadow Hand schools have some nice Boosts, Counters and Stances for you to use. DM in particular lets you replace Saves with Concentration checks, though as you went LT, I'm guessing you've been using perform instead; ask your DM if you can use perform for those as well and it'd be a great investment. Swordsage for Shadow Hand gets you some nice local teleportation to work in tandem with your Transposition, and a stance that grants Sneak Attack dice.

[Axier]

Indeed, but alas, I am Chaotic Good. :smallcool:

Totally not an excuse to not take mindbender. You could sing in someone's mind! Plus, you can use your domination powers on the Evil Ones, to use them as tools for Freedom and Goodness!

Seriously though, making a paladin of tyranny fight to bring down the dictatorship sounds like a great idea.