Does one need multiple Exotic Weapon Proficiencies for similar weapons?

[INoKnowNames]

Title.

Example: If one gains proficiency with a Bastard-Sword, would they need to take it again for a Kaorti-Resin Bastard-Sword?

Or, starting with a Full Blade, but then taking it gain for a Heavy (platinum or gold, either or) Full Blade?

... maybe stack those, for a Kaorti-Resin Heavy Weapon? Are there any other types of modifications that would call for an Exotic Proficiecy?

And if you do take the proficiency for the advanced version of a weapon, do you lose it with the unmodified ones?

The Warblade's ability to change such feats around is pretty cool, since it side steps this process entirely.

[TuggyNE]

Example: If one gains proficiency with a Bastard-Sword, would they need to take it again for a Kaorti-Resin Bastard-Sword?

Or, starting with a Full Blade, but then taking it gain for a Heavy (platinum or gold, either or) Full Blade?

I believe you need to take them separately.


And if you do take the proficiency for the advanced version of a weapon, do you lose it with the unmodified ones?

Lose proficiency? No. If you only get one of the feats, you'll only have proficiency with that version, but as far as I know there's no way to outright lose proficiency.

[Thiyr]

Iirc, it explicitly states in both those entries that you need to take a separate EWP for each of those, so you'd need it for the sword itself, the kaorti resin, and the heavy properties (or just the properties if it's on a non-exotic weapon). They're all separate feats, so you don't lose anything for taking them outside of spending 3 feats (meaning warblade wouldn't help much either, unless you get a lot of free weird EWP feats from...somewhere?)

That said, you can't have kaorti resin and heavy at the same time (both are special materials that construct the whole weapon, either treated gold/platinum/etc for heavy or...uh, kaorti resin.

And because we're on the topic of exotic weapons and it may in some way be relevant, have a link. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88633)

edit: to clarify, i mean heavy as "heavy version of weapon X", not "heavy in general". same for kaorti. And i think they state you need that and the normal proficiency.

[Morcleon]

edit: to clarify, i mean heavy as "heavy version of weapon X", not "heavy in general". same for kaorti. And i think they state you need that and the normal proficiency.

Actually, you don't need to have the normal proficiency. All you need is EWP (kaorti resin fullblade), EWP (heavy fullblade). Each gives you proficiency with that particular type of fullblade, with no additional prereqs.

[INoKnowNames]

I believe you need to take them separately.

I was hoping one might be able to site info about tis, since it seems like the kind of thing one would retrain up to.


Lose proficiency? No. If you only get one of the feats, you'll only have proficiency with that version, but as far as I know there's no way to outright lose proficiency.

I was thinking that if someone had on of the feats, then retrained or whatever to change it to a more complicated version, they'd lose proficiency with the more simple version... which is kinda silly, now that I think about it.


Iirc, it explicitly states in both those entries that you need to take a separate EWP for each of those,

The entries don't actually say anything about it, at least when it comes to weapons that are already exotic...


They're all separate feats, so you don't lose anything for taking them outside of spending 3 feats (meaning warblade wouldn't help much either, unless you get a lot of free weird EWP feats from...somewhere?)

My figuring was, for example, that a Warblade could use the basic exotic weapon until he could afford the more advanced weapon, then use his class ability to retrain these feats to switch his proficiency over to the more special weapon.


That said, you can't have kaorti resin and heavy at the same time (both are special materials that construct the whole weapon, either treated gold/platinum/etc for heavy or...uh, kaorti resin.

Resin weapons need better names. Also, darn... ah well. I suppose focus can be maintained on just a Heavy weapon... Surprised this kinda thing doesn't come up more often...


And because we're on the topic of exotic weapons and it may in some way be relevant, have a link. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88633)

Thanks for the link!


edit: to clarify, i mean heavy as "heavy version of weapon X", not "heavy in general". same for kaorti.

I wasn't expecting to be able to e proficient with every single heavy or kaorti weapon in existance, merely one specific type, but since I couldn't afford either variant for now, I'd go with the basic exotic weapon proficiency, and then trade up later.


And i think they state you need that and the normal proficiency.

Doesn't at all seem to state that, actually.


Actually, you don't need to have the normal proficiency. All you need is EWP (kaorti resin fullblade), EWP (heavy fullblade). Each gives you proficiency with that particular type of fullblade, with no additional prereqs.

I find the idea of being unable to use the more generic forms of a weapon, yet being proficient with the odder weirder forms amusing. Though you'd think if someone could use a sword that's extra heavy, he could also use a lighter version of that sword...

[Answerer]

Kaorti resin specifies that you need EWP in the weapon type in question. It explicitly states that you need, e.g., EWP (Longsword) to use a Kaorti resin longsword. Not EWP (Kaorti resin longsword).

Thus, EWP (Bastard Sword) covers those made of Kaorti resin.

I don't know about other exotic materials.

[INoKnowNames]

Kaorti resin specifies that you need EWP in the weapon type in question. It explicitly states that you need, e.g., EWP (Longsword) to use a Kaorti resin longsword. Not EWP (Kaorti resin longsword).

Thus, EWP (Bastard Sword) covers those made of Kaorti resin.

I don't know about other exotic materials.

If only Heavy Weapons worked under the same rule, I'd be freaking set. But it doesn't specify so for weapons already exotic, and actually does say Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Heavy Longsword) for the regular... So I'm still not sure what all would then be needed... I don't even know about other materials that equire Exotic Proficiency; what other ones are there?

I could have sworn there were some weapons that proficiency and feats toward one of them also counted for the other... I was going to site it as an example for why this line of thinking would work, but I can't recall the weapons...

[Answerer]

I'd argue, then, that EWP (Heavy Bastard Sword) counted for a Kaorti-resin Heavy Bastard Sword, and there's no reason (unless Heavy explicitly says it) that EWP (Heavy Bastard Sword) would require EWP (Bastard Sword).

Just to be sure, you do know that Bastard Swords are really bad exotic weapons, right?

[Telonius]

They're all separate feats, so you don't lose anything for taking them outside of spending 3 feats (meaning warblade wouldn't help much either, unless you get a lot of free weird EWP feats from...somewhere?)

"Somewhere" is usually a dip in the Master of Masks (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070105a&page=3) PrC, and the Gladiator mask. It's really the go-to dip, if you're interested in a whole bunch of proficiencies.

The other option is the Skillful weapon enhancement from Complete Arcane.

[INoKnowNames]

I'd argue, then, that EWP (Heavy Bastard Sword) counted for a Kaorti-resin Heavy Bastard Sword, and there's no reason (unless Heavy explicitly says it) that EWP (Heavy Bastard Sword) would require EWP (Bastard Sword).

Hm... I suppose this kinda thing would just have to be decided by the Dm, then. Certainly not too unreasonable, just a few extra damage numbers and a really cool weapon.


Just to be sure, you do know that Bastard Swords are really bad exotic weapons, right?

Oh definitely. I was just using it as an example. I'm far more interested in the Heavy Full Blade than a Bastard Sword, especially if one can mess around with a Large one via a race that has Powerful Build... though a Kaorti-Resin Great Falchion would also be pretty sweet. Not quite a crit fisher, but still pretty cool, especially if you can make it a Serated Kaorti-Resin Great Falchion... and then Improved Crit or Keen Edge, for a 13-20/x4 on a 2 Handed Weapon. On a Gish, that'd be pretty tight.

... looking at a list of exotic weapons (not sure if it's completely accurate or not), I found this in the description for the Elven Courtblade:


Characters proficient with the elven courtblade may treat it as a greatsword for the purpose of any of the following feats: Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Specialization, Improved Critical, Weapon Focus, and Weapon Specialization

That's what I was thinking about someoe proficient with a slightly more complicate version of a weapon might still be familiar enough with the basic form of it without needing extra feats.


"Somewhere" is usually a dip in the Master of Masks (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070105a&page=3) PrC, and the Gladiator mask. It's really the go-to dip, if you're interested in a whole bunch of proficiencies.

Was I supposed to immediately think of Majora's Mask when this was mentioned? Because I do. And this seems awesome. Such a dip seems like it migh work, too.


The other option is the Skillful weapon enhancement from Complete Arcane.

Expensive, but a possible feat saver if it came down to it.