GM'ing past level 15

[pwykersotz]

So, for the first time since my group and I actually knew what we were doing, the party has hit level 15. This is after a single campaign that has lasted for all those levels. They took an 8 year break after achieving victory (in character) and now they are influential and powerful in their area of the world.

The party is as follows:
Warforged Fighter
Human Crusader (Saint Template)
Gnome Illusionist Wizard(Saint Template)
Shifter Warlock 5/Ur Priest (Lich)

The party is all fairly highly optimized with a smattering of prestige classes and has 1 or 2 levels of additional WBL to play with. Between Wizard and Ur Priest they have most spells they could want, and the melee is pretty beastly too.

Now I'm planning on running some much smaller adventures and it should be a blast. Like I said though, I've never GM'd for players of this level and experience. Are there any common pitfalls to avoid? I'm specifically looking for things to absolutely not do, but advice on things to make sure to do would be welcome too.

[mregecko]

I'm definitely not a pro here, but in my experience, a large trick is that encounters become much less about a single enemy and WAY more about creating interesting encounters where positioning/strategy, tactics, environment, proper utilization of resources, etc... Play a huge factor.

Another important aspect is you can't give them unlimited time. High level casters in particular with tons of time to recover in between fights, or the capability to escape and come back with no ramifications, become very difficult to deal with without over-CR'ing encounters.

If you have access to it, check out some of the encounters in the Elder Evils 3.5 book. Don't run them if they don't fit your campaign, but they give some great ideas of what high level encounters can be like that should still be a challenge (although some of the stuff is a little easy, a lot depends on how prepared your party is).

Also, just curious, how does a Warlock5 qualify for Ur-Priest? Based on the Fort save alone it's no possible?

-- G

[pwykersotz]

Oh, he didn't qualify. His character underwent a few forced changes due to dark gods and the like. Suffice it to say the build doesn't quite work on its own.

[Eurus]

Oh, he didn't qualify. His character underwent a few forced changes due to dark gods and the like. Suffice it to say the build doesn't quite work on its own.

You have two saints and an Ur-Priest touched by dark gods? Sounds like an interesting group. :smalleek:

[mregecko]

You have two saints and an Ur-Priest touched by dark gods? Sounds like an interesting group. :smalleek:

+1. I want to play in this group, lol.

[pwykersotz]

Yeah, interesting is a good way to describe it. Suffice it to say there are many out of character discussions mid-week about how to deceive/justify/work with the party. So far it's been a lot of fun.

[Xervous]

Gotta love those players who know how to play evil characters in an predominately good party.

I would like to echo the importance of denying them downtime, as well as intensifying combat by complication or novelty or... etc. Force them to think about their actions in combat, apply pressure liberally. This is best accomplished by creating a goal other than deliver team monster to your optimized meat processors.

Goals add to the story, mixing combat with the narrative.

Goals can be used to produce that desired pressure. Time dependent objectives are the most obvious. Stop the doomsday device before all the inhabitants of the world (that fail their fort or will save) are transformed into frogs to be frozen and sold to illithids as popsicles, while the BBEG throws his armies at you. Rescue the princess... or stop the BBEG from getting away, maybe you could do both, or maybe you'll fail at both.

In short, add stuff that isn't just another statblock for them to mincenerate into freshly harvested xp.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Use the universal method of negating combat ability.

Drag them into politics.

As 15+ level characters they're likely some of the most powerful characters in the game world. People in charge can't just have these disasters-waiting-to-happen walking around loose. Have monarchs, mages' guilds, churches, and secret societies approach them left and right until they bite, then get machiavellian on their butts.

Note: this is what I do, and it works for me. YMMV.

[Blue1005]

Use the universal method of negating combat ability.

Drag them into politics.

As 15+ level characters they're likely some of the most powerful characters in the game world. People in charge can't just have these disasters-waiting-to-happen walking around loose. Have monarchs, mages' guilds, churches, and secret societies approach them left and right until they bite, then get machiavellian on their butts.

Note: this is what I do, and it works for me. YMMV.



Sounds awesome, also I just read a Chris Perkins blog about giving them quests that can and sometimes do fail, that way the encounter is not the biggest thing to be overcome, but the victory or failure behind it is. And as always a horde of rust monsters would reduce the level challenge quickly...:smallsmile: