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View Full Version : Villain sanity check and how far can fluff be stretched



daemonaetea
2012-10-18, 07:03 PM
I'm nearing the start point for a campaign I've been planning for a while. So far there are two main protagonistsantagonists for the campaign, although neither will be known to the players at the beginning. The full details of the two (who have very different power levels and goals) will only become known later on. Even so, some of their abilities will have impacts from the very beginning, even if the characters don't realize it yet, so I'd like to have them mostly nailed down before the game begins.

What I'm looking for is:
1. How interesting would it be if you, as a player, were learning these things?
2. Both of them are, in part, an examination of some of the fluff that could lie behind the abilities that are central to each. As such, some of the way I'm saying they function are not spelled out, but merely my interpretation of how they may work. I think this introduces some interesting flavor, but I would like your opinion of if this goes "too far".
3. Any other comments/concerns you may have.


The First Big Bad, The Prophet Garung:

Background
Within the (homebrewed) game world, the Fair races (humans, elfs, gnomes, and the like) and the Beastly races (catfolk, Ibixian, raptoreans, and the like) fought a war several hundred years ago against the Monstrous races (orcs, kobolds, goblins, and the like). After the Monstrous races were defeated they were forced into a place known as No Man's Land. This inhospitable landscape is bordered by impassable mountains to the north and south, by cliffs and dangerous seas to the west, and by a desert to the east. In additions, the other races have maintained constant patrols ever since to ensure the Monstrous races never again trouble them.

In truth both sides shared the responsibility for allowing the war to start, but by this point in time both sides have come to only remember the transgressions of the other. At the start of the campaign a great disaster befalls the continent, resulting in the Fair and Beastly races to be greatly weakened. The Monstrous races, who were only minimally impacted by the disaster, take this as their chance to finally break free, and to be avenged.

Into this situation steps an old orc named Garung. He too leaves the No Man's Land, but he instead seeks only peace. He quickly establishes a new town just north of the old border, where he invites all races to live in harmony. It's not long before his new followers begin to proclaim him a prophet, and his vision for peace as their new guiding light.

The old man is, in fact, a Thrallherd. After escaping No Man's Land he orders two thirds of his followers to kill themselves, then waits for his psionic signal to bring him new followers, a mixture of all the races of the area. He then uses them to establish his new commune, and begin his message of peace. In this is he is sincere - he truly desires peace. He's willing, however, to sacrifice as many of his believers as it takes to achieve that end. He does not do so gladly, and he tries to do it as little as possible, but he's perfectly willing to do so. In addition, he's been using his Psionic Charm ability to influence those in the region, to build his new commune into a major hub of the region.

Ability - Believers and Thralls
The first plot hook the player's will find for this figure will be of an elf who suddenly left his home grove. In this setting an elf leaving his home is exceedingly rare - those who choose to even go as far as a neighboring village are something like living legends. They will find out that this person suddenly felt a great calling, a need to go to a certain place far away. Though he tried fighting it for almost a day, in the end he left, leaving his family heartbroken.

The thralls are being treated thusly: to suddenly be ensnared by the Thrallherds psionic call is something that cannot be denied. Once so captured no family ties, no obligations, will prevent them from seeking out the place they "know they belong". Once they have seen their Thrallherd for the first time, they are forever warped by the Thrallherd's powers. They are merely a receptacle of his will, and are incapable for going against it. If their Thrallherd dies, they will either become catatonic, continue to carry out their last ordered action until they die, or fly into a rage until they die. As such, those that have been enthralled by the Thrallherd are lost forever. So even if the Prophet is defeated, the people he has stolen will never get their lives back. And besides that... he truly is trying to forge peace. He's undoubtedly evil in his methods, but his goals are good. Is the party really willing to stop him? And if they do, are they willing to accept the animosity of all those who have become followers of the Prophet, including those who have done it of their own volition?

Ability - Psionic Charm
One of the Prophets most used ways of extending his influence is his Charm ability. Generally he will arrange a meeting with a leader, such as a Head Selectman or a Mayor. Then he will Charm them just before meeting them for the first time. Thus, from the very first moment they have met him, they will always have been on friendly terms with him. The Prophet, for his part, is kind, considerate, and immanently friendly to them and their entire town. He will then try to negotiate favorable trading conditions with the town, attempt to expand his influence, and try to attract new (willing) followers. If, even in their charmed state, the head of the area refuses, the Prophet will continue to act kindly, leaving without protest.

The Prophet will then ensure that the one he Charmed has the Charm renewed on a regular basis, to ensure it never wears off. He will continue this for several months before he ceases to keep them Charmed.

My idea is that, once he ceases the Charming, they will continue to see him in a friendly light. As such, even though he used Psionics on them at one point, by the time the heroes arrive the evidence will be gone. My thinking is that, after having viewed the Prophet as a friend for several months; after forming memories of friendship with him during this time; and never knowing anything but friendship with him, the Charmed people will by that point actually regard him as a friend even in their natural state.

This action has both good and evil reasons. The good reason is to ensure that the people of the area, mostly Fair and Beastly race members, do not attack the Prophet and his followers. By ensuring the entire leadership of the region views him in a favorable light, he's actually keeping his people safe. On the other hand, it also makes it very hard for the heroes to convince everyone what is going on once they learn the truth.


The Bigger Bad, Justice

Background
Several hundred years ago there was an adventuring group famous throughout the land. Over the course of their adventures they grew tremendously powerful. Eventually there were no further adventures in the lands of their birth, and so they sought out their destiny amongst the planes. They were just as successful there, and for many years their might only grew. As their ability grew, so did their overconfidence.

One day they heard of a powerful artifact that had been captured by an insane Caster, who had hid it within his domain within the Abyss. The group decided to confront the Caster, and reclaim the artifact from him. The group found the domain of the Caster and, after a long and terrible battle, managed to defeat him. Laughing in triumph, they began to search the mad Caster's lair. In no time at all they had found the artifact. They turned to one of their members, an artificer, and asked her what the item was. In player terms, she rolled a 1 - not an automatic failure, of course, but still leaving her with a result that was dangerous. For what she recalled was just enough information to make them confident in using the item, but not enough to warn them of the dangers.

"This item definitely isn't evil. I think it probably is chaotic, though. It's the Deck of Many Things, and many powerful abilities can be gained from it, based on the card you pull."

Perhaps as younger adventures they would have sought more validation before using it. But they were extremely powerful, and no longer feared anything. They urged one of their number, a cleric by the name of Varun, to draw it first. Although none of them knew it, Varun was not actually a human, as he appeared. Instead he was a gold dragon in disguise, who used his natural casting and toughness to pretend to be a martial oriented cleric. By nature he tended towards being cautious and careful, but in the preceding fight it was his actions that had clinched victory, and his party was cheering him and urging him to have first draw. All they wanted to do was to reward their trusted, valued friend. Thus he relented, and drew a single card. He drew Justice. And, in moments, the course of history was altered.

Ability - The Justice Card from the Deck of Many Things
The Justice card from the Deck of Many Things instantly alters your alignment to the complete opposite. The Lawful Good Varun became Chaotic Evil. The thoughts behind this are about what a truly traumatic experience this must be. Imagine becoming, in a single instant, the complete opposite of yourself now in outlook. For that moment, within Varun's mind, he clearly could see his two selfs, felt the contradiction of his oncoming new existence, felt his mind shatter and reassemble into something completely alien to what it was before. This moment did more than change his alignment - it drove him insane.

Filled with rage, and pain, and hate, Varun turned to his friends.

"What'd it do?" asked one of them.

And, smiling, Varun said, "Let me show you."

He had slaughtered them all within a minute, except for the artificer. For her, he had a much worse fate planned.

Varun for many years journeyed, lashing out at the world, inflicting pain. But, eventually, this no longer satisfied his hate. It was during this time that he began planning the cataclysm that opens the campaign. It was also during this time that he cast aside his name, in exchange for a new one. He accepted more than a name, he accepted an ideal: Justice. Once, he believed in the rule of law, and saw that as justice. Now, though, he knows the only justice there is, is chance.

Now, hundreds of years later, and in possession of the full powers of a great wyrm, his ultimate plan is to utilize several epic level spells and artifacts to bring about both the pain he craves everyone to feel, and the manifestation of chaos into their lives - he's going to induce a permanent affect that will result in every being in the multiverse being forcefully Plain Shifted to a random plane after a random interval, until the day they die. One minute in Celestia, then a decade in the Fire Plane, then an hour in the Abyss, then a few seconds in the Far Realms... on and on, forever, until the very last thing dies.



The heart of both the villains is an examination of just how traumatic two casually explained abilities must really be. What's it like to suddenly become a thrall under someone you've never seen before? What's it like for the people you left behind? And what's it like to have your very sense of self being radically altered against your will?

Sorry for the long post. For any of you that made it this far, you have my thanks. And further thanks for any thoughts you can give.

Alaris
2012-10-18, 10:05 PM
What I'm looking for is:
1. How interesting would it be if you, as a player, were learning these things?

2. Both of them are, in part, an examination of some of the fluff that could lie behind the abilities that are central to each. As such, some of the way I'm saying they function are not spelled out, but merely my interpretation of how they may work. I think this introduces some interesting flavor, but I would like your opinion of if this goes "too far".

3. Any other comments/concerns you may have.


Hmm, I certainly like these ideas. I think it would be a very interesting campaign to play in myself, and wish I could.

For me, however, I'd say that a lot of how much I'd like these particular things is how they are revealed. How slow the PCs learn about things, and in what way. That can make or break the story, the plot, and the concepts of these characters.

I'd say though, be ready for the PCs to possibly just join up with The Prophet. Unless they're ridiculously restricted (for example, Paladin), then the Prophet's plan might not seem so bad. Hell, this would seem like an even better idea when they find out about Justice; I sure as hell would team up with The Prophet if I thought he could help us with the Dragon who intends to kill everyone through chaos.

A little more fleshing out could be used on both, but I honestly presume you're giving us the cliff notes version. I can honestly say I like it, and would likely play in a game if it involved these characters.

ThiagoMartell
2012-10-18, 10:45 PM
Please tell me you meant antagonist instead of protagonist...

A_S
2012-10-18, 10:49 PM
Since he lists them as Big Bad and Bigger Bad, clearly he did mean antagonists...but that set off alarm bells for me too until I kept reading.

daemonaetea
2012-10-18, 11:30 PM
Please tell me you meant antagonist instead of protagonist...

Aha. Yes, perhaps I should've reread the intro paragraph along with the rest. Definitely antagonist.


Hmm, I certainly like these ideas. I think it would be a very interesting campaign to play in myself, and wish I could.

For me, however, I'd say that a lot of how much I'd like these particular things is how they are revealed. How slow the PCs learn about things, and in what way. That can make or break the story, the plot, and the concepts of these characters.

I'd say though, be ready for the PCs to possibly just join up with The Prophet. Unless they're ridiculously restricted (for example, Paladin), then the Prophet's plan might not seem so bad. Hell, this would seem like an even better idea when they find out about Justice; I sure as hell would team up with The Prophet if I thought he could help us with the Dragon who intends to kill everyone through chaos.

A little more fleshing out could be used on both, but I honestly presume you're giving us the cliff notes version. I can honestly say I like it, and would likely play in a game if it involved these characters.

Justice will be involved from nearly the beginning. An early session will involve them "rescuing" a cleric named Justice from a scouting group from the Monstrous army. From that point on he'll be a recurring minor NPC. There will be possibilities throughout the game to discover the truth behind him. In particular, Justice was coordinating with the leaders of the Monstrous races, so they'd know when to attack. Depending on what interactions they have with them, who they capture, what documents they intercept, they could get hints. Then, at the half-way point of the game, something will occur to make them realize his villainous nature if they haven't before. Basically, he's going to initiate a second cataclysm of a similar nature of the first. Turns out that first time was just a calibration test, and he's got a few more to go.

His backstory will be revealed when they find out what happened to the artificer mentioned in the above story. She's still alive, and still suffering. Once they find her, they'll finally get the full story of what he was before. Until that point, all they'll know is that an extremely old, extremely powerful gold dragon has for some reason turned evil and is causing an extreme amount of death and destruction.

For discovering things about the Prophet, that'll probably be slow as well. The Prophet himself is rarely seen. When they finally meet "him", it'll really be his cohort person. He'll just be an old man in the audience who befriends the party. As they interact with the old man he'll begin sharing some of the truth behind what the Prophet is doing, while at the same time trying to convince them it's all for the greater good.

And if they decide to join up with him, that'd be great! I love nothing more than when my players manage to really surprise me. But what I'll be stressing very clearly is that, while he may be achieving something good, there are innocents that are suffering, and that will be on their hands as well. If they're fine with shouldering that, then that's fine with me. While I'm working to populate a vast world with interesting stories, the primary thing I'm interested in is seeing how my players interact with that world, in seeing the choices they make, and in seeing how it all turns out.

The above is mostly just a summary, yes. There's a great deal more details of each. Justice's plan is particularly vague above because most of it deals with aspects of the setting that would make a long post even longer.

If you'd like a little more detail about what's in the game's background, and how it'll be opening, I posted some details in this thread, looking for comments on that as well:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=255117

This will only be my second time DMing, and for a pretty veteran group. I'm pretty psyched about doing it, but I'd also really like to make a good game for them. Both as thanks for the fun they've given me for their games, and to hopefully give them some new experiences in return. So I very much appreciate all the help and advice I get from the Playground.

Story tangent:
They're veterans, and they're very traditional. We had a game the other day where we were pursuing some goblins. At one point we found a group of goblins in the woods. When the rest started to plan an attack, I asked if we should first verify that these were the group we're looking for, and that we probably shouldn't just kill them right off the bat.

The DM looked at me like I was crazy. "They're goblins, of course you kill them."

I just smiled. I'm actually really looking forward to how they deal with things in my game...

pyromanser244
2012-10-18, 11:50 PM
I may have missed something but why does the prophet need to kill off his followers? seems like an important point to me.

how does the prophet intend to bring peace to the world? I mean sure he can build communes to the end of his days but the majority of the world is just as violent and warlike as they ever were. would he "jedi" his way into royal halls and courts and make people play nice? does he have some philosophy or teaching that people can take with them? or is he looking for some greater scheme to leave a lasting peace in the world?

just some thoughts

daemonaetea
2012-10-19, 07:27 AM
I may have missed something but why does the prophet need to kill off his followers? seems like an important point to me.

how does the prophet intend to bring peace to the world? I mean sure he can build communes to the end of his days but the majority of the world is just as violent and warlike as they ever were. would he "jedi" his way into royal halls and courts and make people play nice? does he have some philosophy or teaching that people can take with them? or is he looking for some greater scheme to leave a lasting peace in the world?

just some thoughts

Thrallherds have something like leadership, but with some key differences. Rather than convincing people to be their followers, Thrallherds put out a psionic signal that causes certain susceptable individuals in the area to come to it. These people have fallen under the Thrallherd's sway, and are now referred to as believers.

The Prophet would have had a full complement of believers before leaving No Man's Land. Once out, the easiest way to instantly start a mixed society was to simply kill off most of his current believers. As per the rules of the Thrallherd's abilities, this then causes replacements to come to him from the surrounding area automatically. Thus by killing off his (Monstrous race) believers, he's able to replace them with Fair and Beastly race believers from the area, thus immediately kick starting his peace movement. You look much more credible in preaching cooperation amongst the races if you already have a good mixture living together peacefully. The fact that they're all just mind controlled drones is besides the fact.

The plan is part Jedi control, part simple faith, and part leading by example. If he can merely make enough leaders friendly to him then they're less likely to perpetuate the violence, and more likely to try to end the war through peaceful means. Beyond that, his teachings are those of peace and love for your fellow being. He has some that have come to him not because of any psionic ability, but simply because they believe in what he's doing. That's largely because of the example they've set. He started off with a mixed group of people who (seem to have) put aside there differences and established a place of peace where all are welcome. To a great number of people, this is very attractive, and not without reason.

Basically the Prophet is seeking to create a legitimate peace movement, he's merely willing to use evil methods to do so. True, he killed fifty people that believed in him, but their sacrifice allowed him to nearly instantly gain credibility in the region. True he's mind melding the leaders, but he's doing so in a largely defensive manner. Due to racial prejudices they'd have been unlikely to even hear him out otherwise.

I should also point out that he's a little less benign than he seems, but only a little. Eventually he'll begin preaching that the leadership of all the races has failed them. Left as they are, they'll only allow war to flourish again. These institutions must be torn down and replaced, for the good of all, and the faithful will take over for them. Yes, this will result in some violence, regretfully. But last time pays for all. Once the faithful are in charge, with the Prophet as their guiding light, they shall usher in a peace which shall last forever, unbroken... Or at least, that's what the Prophet will tell the faithful. And he honestly believes it. He's not just trying to seize power so that he can lord over them all, he honestly believes that once he's in charge things will be better for everyone. Because, from his perspective, those in his thrall are perfectly happy. If only everyone would submit, they'd be happy too...