[Core 3.5] "Tutor" Character

[d.b]

I will be joining group that has played some adventures already, but are relatively new to d&d.
The group has Paladin, Cleric, Rogue, Wizard and archer Ranger, so all what adventuring group needs is pretty much covered. They are good aligned, lvl 6.

So here's my plan: I want to make suprising character, so I can show interesting stuff you can do in dnd (so it isn't just: "i hit him, i cast fire bal, i hit him, i cast heal" anymore). But i don't want to take away party roles from them.

I need it to be optimized, but not overpowered (so no "one man army druids"), and i don't want full casters (or do I?)

Trick is: Core only (and with really small use of SRD, so 3 books mainly).

I got DM to allow me to go with whisper gnome and got rid of evil req for assassin.

rolls are: 17 16 13 12 12 11

What I have atm:

whisper gnome rog3/ftr2/assas1

str 10
dex 20 (4th lvls +1 went here)
con 15
int 16
wis 11
cha 10

2wf, weapon finesse, improved shield bash, combat reflexes, quick draw

skills are mainly hide, spot, tumble, balance and so on. Roguelike, but without focus on disarming so party rogue can do his job.

13k gp got me mithral chain shirt +2, mithral light spiked shield +1 and haversack filld with various usefull thingies.

What i plan for future goes like this:
4lvls of assassin (to get 3rd lvl spells)
2lvls of eldritch knight (for knowledge arcane 8)
2lvls of dragon disciple (cause i can, and for natural attack maybe?)
3lvls of assassin (for HiPS)
1lvl eldritch knight (to get 10th level casting of assassin)
2lvls dragon disciple (why not?)

5 additional feats will be i2wf, g2wf, multiattack, improved natural attack and something.

this way I finish with +16 BAB, +13/+10/+8 saves, +4 to str, natural attacks and 6d6 sneak attack, but i have decent character while gaining levels.

Mobility, versatility, usefull skills and fun. That's the plan.

Ranger is also possible in place of fighter. Maybe Cleric dip somewhere?

So any suggestions? Is there anything interesting, I might want to include?

And one more: I see only +8 to hide for being whisper gnome, where's one more?

tl;dr: Core fun character to show new players interesting strategies and possible options. Ideas?

Oh, and one more: Hi everyone!

[Eldariel]

Well, is the character already in play? 'cause with a rogue and a melee already in the party, I don't see you really revealing anything new. The road I'd take is Bard. Simply straight Bard. Gnome Bard while at it.


Want to unveil the system? Well, spells allow doing so much better and so much more interesting stuff than Fireballing or healing. And Bard gets a bunch of fun spells. Then there's the skill system which is the other source of cool stuff and Bards excel at skills, all the way up to Bardic Knowledge.

You'll miss out on the better combat maneuvers (namely Trip) unless you go Combat Bard (you don't have enough high stats to really pull that off tho) but you can definitely show what spells like Glitterdust, Glibness, etc. can do and rock Use Magic Device and all the Knowledges, diplomatic skills and all that, alongside Bardic Music which would be a really nice boost for this party, especially Inspire Greatness and Inspire Courage.


Oh, and the +1 to Hide is the Dex-bonus on Whisper Gnome.

[Telonius]

Big problem with that build - you have a Paladin in the group. Unless the DM is ignoring the "Must be evil" clause for Assassin, that's not going to work.

[Arcanist]

Big problem with that build - you have a Paladin in the group. Unless the DM is ignoring the "Must be evil" clause for Assassin, that's not going to work.

OBJECTION! (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070401a)

[Psyren]

I second the Bard suggestion - Illusions and Enchantments are a great way to show off the game's nuanced/improvisational side. Illusions of walls that automatically stop Skeletons, Confusion to sow chaos in the enemy ranks, Invisibility Sphere to help the party sneak past a checkpoint etc.

There are tricky spells in other schools too. An Unseen Servant that sets up and breaks down your tent can help you show off to the members of the party forced to perform manual labor. Pyrotechnics on a thrown torch/lantern makes an interesting flashbang. Gaseous Form to slip through the jail cell bars etc.

[HunterColt22]

OBJECTION! (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070401a)

Overruled! Due to date for giggles, but he already said the DM waived the pre req of needing to be evil.

Again I also third Bard. Simply building a better melee machine than the two already there isn't showing something new, rather than just stepping on toes and pretty much screaming "NYAA NYAA I CAN BE BETTER WITH LESS THOUGHT." Wowing someone with more options to play as so they see an opportunity involves being different, not the same and doing it better, unless that is what the group is asking for and learns from visual examples in game rather than by reading etc.

EDIT: Grr for being swordsaged. :smallmad:

[d.b]

Unless the DM is ignoring the "Must be evil" clause for Assassin, that's not going to work.


I got DM to allow me to go with whisper gnome and got rid of evil req for assassin.
So the gnome can have white hood and speak latin.


is the character already in play? 'cause with a rogue and a melee already in the party, I don't see you really revealing anything new.
I haven't played with them yet, so no.
I was hoping to focus more on combat side of rogue.
I'd like to go with one PrC too. And maybe small dip on top of that.
Bard is interesting choice, but well, I don't see him being usefull at level 6. I might be wrong though, never played bard before.

Is tripping viable option for small character?

And I do want to make skills important part of this build. One thing though: DM isn't doing Diplomacy by RAW.
But true. Bluffing and reasonable diplomacy might work as idea for character.

[Psyren]

Bard is interesting choice, but well, I don't see him being usefull at level 6. I might be wrong though, never played bard before.

He'll be plenty useful. Glitterdust, Alter Self, Mirror Image, Invisiblity, the animal buffs, Summon Monster II - plenty of great options you can choose from at that level. And your Suggestion power comes online then as well, allowing you to lock down a group of enemies with Fascinate while the party buffs/gets into position, hit the biggest and dumbest one with a Suggestion then take the others out.

[Eldariel]

I haven't played with them yet, so no.
I was hoping to focus more on combat side of rogue.
I'd like to go with one PrC too. And maybe small dip on top of that.
Bard is interesting choice, but well, I don't see him being usefull at level 6. I might be wrong though, never played bard before.

Bards are extremely useful from level 1. You just got to know what you're doing. Use spells smart, sing as necessary (don't bother with Inspire Competence unless absolutely necessary, of course) and be the skill monkey of skill monkies. Creative use of Illusions starting from Silent Image can make them immensely useful, they get good mind control and area control spells and overall, if you want to show how someone who never does any damage can be the biggest contributor, Bard is quite perfect.

Bard spells aren't as strong as a Wizard's (Wizard gets the strongest spells; Black Tentacles, Solid Fog, Stinking Cloud, Glitterdust, Polymorph, Grease, Web, etc. just over the first 7 levels) but Bard has few good unique spells and great overall spell access, and they can get Use Magic Device to compensate and they have good skill list, good skill access and hell, they get medium BAB and Inspire Courage if you feel so inclined. And Inspire Greatness is very useful.


Is tripping viable option for small character?

No. -4 is just too big of a penalty for it to be reasonable most of the time.


And I do want to make skills important part of this build. One thing though: DM isn't doing Diplomacy by RAW.
But true. Bluffing and reasonable diplomacy might work as idea for character.

Social skills are useful regardless and Bard is the god of social skills. Since you already have a Rogue, trapfinding and such is probably covered so you can afford social/knowledge focus.

And Bard gets a goodly bunch of skill points so you certainly aren't restricted just to socials.


With those stats I'd go Middle-Aged Gnome Bard with 11/16/13/12/12/17 stat assignment for 8/15/14/13/13/18 after modifiers.

[Arcanist]

Overruled! Due to date for giggles, but he already said the DM waived the pre req of needing to be evil.

I know that :smallsmile: last week their was a thread that asked for a good aligned way to obtain death attack... Ah well... that is why I'll never be as cool as Psyren... Ah cie la vie :smallsigh:

[HunterColt22]

I know that :smallsmile: last week their was a thread that asked for a good aligned way to obtain death attack... Ah well... that is why I'll never be as cool as Psyren... Ah cie la vie :smallsigh:

Slayer of Domemile, and Black Flame Zealot are the only two without a pre req of Evil that I was ever aware of minus, the Avenger who I am not sure any DM would take considering its odd date, which sucks because he is rather useful for non warforged/drow rouges. :/

[d.b]

With those stats I'd go Middle-Aged Gnome Bard with 11/16/13/12/12/17 stat assignment for 8/15/14/13/13/18 after modifiers.
Well, that is interesting thing to do indeed.

Haversack is a must then.

Any dips that I might consider with that kind of bard?
Middle-Aged can be fun way of adding dimensions to the caracter, providing place for backstory and so on.




And your Suggestion power comes online then as well, allowing you to lock down a group of enemies with Fascinate while the party buffs/gets into position, hit the biggest and dumbest one with a Suggestion then take the others out.
"There is a group of Hill Giants ahead. What do you do?"
"I will sing them song of my people"
I bet they will not see it coming. Good one, Sir.



So let's suppose I will make Middle-Aged Gnome Bard
Let's call him Diles Mavis (or Ceric Lapton, if string instruments are better)
8/15/14/14/13/18 (4th lvl atribute bonus to int).

skills:
maxed: bluff, diplomacy, umd, perform, disguise, concentration
5 ranks:sense motive, balance
1 rank: tumble, one knowledge

0l spells would be:
light, detect magic, summon instrument, mage hand, lullaby, flare
1l spells:
charm person, disguise self, silent image, hideous laughter
2l:
glitterdust, invisibility, hold person

3 feats available. No core idea for those beside weapon finesse
However i have 3.0 book "Song and Silence"
Are there feats that i can try convince my DM to allow?

MC instrument of course, mithral chain shirt (+1 or 2), light shield (mithral, +1). Whip, just for laughs and crossbow (cause of str penalty)
haversack and a bunch of little fun thingies like scrolls, tanglefoot bags, or quall tree or two.

Quick idea.

And maybe should i put this little guy on a riding dog?

[Eldariel]

Well, that is interesting thing to do indeed.

Haversack is a must then.

Any dips that I might consider with that kind of bard?
Middle-Aged can be fun way of adding dimensions to the caracter, providing place for backstory and so on.

Haversack is always a must; just too convenient and cheap to not have one. And you can go Loremaster later on if that strikes your fancy, though I prefer straight Bard.