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Zelkon
2012-10-19, 08:31 AM
First, which build is more viable: artificer//druid, or artificer//spellthief? Second, what do I do to make that effective?

docnessuno
2012-10-19, 08:34 AM
Artificer // Druis really sounds as the less viable option imho. Wild shape conflicts with most of your artificer's potential, while spellcasting doesn't add that much to someone who can craft any scroll/want/staff possible.

That said, you might want to consider Artificer // Factotum, wich is regarded as one of the best gestalt combinations ever possible, with amazing sinergy.

Zelkon
2012-10-19, 09:08 AM
I'll go factotum. Any ideas for that? Why is it such a good combo?

docnessuno
2012-10-19, 10:11 AM
A quick look at what factotum gives you:

8+int skills: Artificers are pretty good, but there's always improvement room.
All skills as class skills: It's a nice thing to have.
Cunning insight: +Int to attack rolls, handy for the first levels or if you want to go meleeificer.
Cunning knowledge: +Level to a skill check, did i hear anyone saying UMD?
Arcane dilettante: Can save you some money, just cast some SLA instead of using scrolls.
Brains over Brawn: +Int to Str/Dex check and Str/Dex skills. Always active.
Cunning defense: +Int to AC, handy.
Cunning strike / Opportunistic piety: Not that good.
Cunning surge: Wait, i'm breaking the action economy at level 8? On a gestalt character that has access to every spell in the game? *Cackles maniacally*.
Cunning dodge: DM: you are dead. Player: No. Costly, but dying is usually worse.
Improved Cunning defense: Cunning defense is now always on. Nice but comes online a bit too late.
Cunning brilliance: Possibly the best capstone in the whole game, and you get it at level 19 to boot.

Summary: Great Int sinergy, and the possibility to break the action economy from lvl 8 then more Int sinergy.
Did i mention i'm breaking the action economy 4 levels earlier then a RKV?

Psyren
2012-10-19, 11:32 AM
The best gestalt combos follow the format active//passive. In other words, one side gives you uses for your actions, while the other makes your actions better (or gives you more actions.) The reason for this is that

Artificer//Druid doesn't work as well because both are active classes. You need actions to cast your spells, shapeshift, push your AC and activate items. Furthermore, there is some anti-synergy in that wild shape will disable some of your equipment by default, necessitating additional resources to keep it useful.

Artificer//Factotum is strong because Factotum is largely passive while Artificer is largely active. You use Factotum to make and improve actions, and use Artificer to spend them.

Zelkon
2012-10-19, 08:52 PM
What feats do I absolutely need, and when? Both classes are feat intensive.

herrhauptmann
2012-10-19, 10:43 PM
Font of inspiration as many times as you can take it.

Gavinfoxx
2012-10-19, 10:44 PM
What feats do I absolutely need, and when? Both classes are feat intensive.

What do you want to focus on?

Rejakor
2012-10-20, 03:37 AM
What do you actually want to do/be?

Artificer//Druid does actually give you access to all of the buffs in the game. And wands can be activated as swift actions, which is nice.

You take Factotum because at level 8 you get to spend inspiration points to gain standard actions. So you gestalt that with a caster (or wand-caster like artificer) class, and then nova all your actions in one round shooting off spells/bullets/lasers etc.

Tvtyrant
2012-10-20, 03:46 AM
You could also go Artificer//Psion, because Psion plays Calvin Ball with the action economy and is int based. Schism is like having an extra standard action every turn, and it can be persisted.

Heliomance
2012-10-20, 03:58 AM
A quick look at what factotum gives you:

8+int skills: Artificers are pretty good, but there's always improvement room.
All skills as class skills: It's a nice thing to have.
Cunning insight: +Int to attack rolls, handy for the first levels or if you want to go meleeificer.
Cunning knowledge: +Level to a skill check, did i hear anyone saying UMD?
Arcane dilettante: Can save you some money, just cast some SLA instead of using scrolls.
Brains over Brawn: +Int to Str/Dex check and Str/Dex skills. Always active.
Cunning defense: +Int to AC, handy.
Cunning strike / Opportunistic piety: Not that good.
Cunning surge: Wait, i'm breaking the action economy at level 8? On a gestalt character that has access to every spell in the game? *Cackles maniacally*.
Cunning dodge: DM: you are dead. Player: No. Costly, but dying is usually worse.
Improved Cunning defense: Cunning defense is now always on. Nice but comes online a bit too late.
Cunning brilliance: Possibly the best capstone in the whole game, and you get it at level 19 to boot.

Summary: Great Int sinergy, and the possibility to break the action economy from lvl 8 then more Int sinergy.
Did i mention i'm breaking the action economy 4 levels earlier then a RKV?

Minor nitpick: Factota only have 6+Int skill points.

silverwolfer
2012-10-20, 04:22 AM
would a druids natural spell, affect a artificers ability to add speciial abilities to his claws?

you could enchant your natural attack

Zelkon
2012-10-20, 09:18 AM
What do you want to focus on?

Well, I'm definitely trying to reduce gold costs for crafting, and then expand my ability to craft. So far I have font of inspiration, lesser dragonmark of making, favored in house, and for my bonus, Extraordinary Artisan. I have a flaw, too. Planning on taking font again at 6, then craft construct for bonus, then bind elemental for 9th. I'm tempted to go Impetuous Command for 12, with attune magic item as my bonus.

docnessuno
2012-10-20, 10:31 AM
About Font of Inspiration:
If you pick it once, it's a bad feat
If you pick it twice, it's decent
If you pick it three times, it's a good feat
If you pick it four times it's a broken feat
If you pick it five or more times, RUN from your DM

Zelkon
2012-10-20, 11:00 AM
About Font of Inspiration:
If you pick it once, it's a bad feat
If you pick it twice, it's decent
If you pick it three times, it's a good feat
If you pick it four times it's a broken feat
If you pick it five or more times, RUN from your DM

If I have the chance, I'll take it a 3rd time at 15 I guess.

Slipperychicken
2012-10-20, 02:14 PM
What feats do I absolutely need, and when? Both classes are feat intensive.

If you have Factotum, Quicken Spell is a waste, because you can just Cunning Surge for more Standard actions. Which opens up a lot of spell combos which aren't otherwise possible. Also, everyone mentioned it already, but 3-4 Font of Inspirations. Wherever you can't think of a good feat, plug in a FoI.

Your standard metamagics like Extend Spell will probably be nice.
I forgot if Artificers already get Metamagic Spell Trigger as a class feature or whatever. If they don't, take the feat and enjoy your pitifully-cheap metamagic. (Burn 7ish wand charges to Persist any spell you want? 3-4 charges for a Maximize? Scandalous)