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View Full Version : Rivals and Enemies - Concept help, please



ArcanaGuy
2012-10-19, 10:09 AM
So, I'm running a searfaring D&D game based mostly on D&D 3.0, but with the Pathfinder rules for skills. My players are having fun - a 'good' pirate gang who wants to sail the seas sinking orcish warships and goblin catamarans, stealing the loot and returning to port to wench and drink. They're also all cursed with a different random curse. They're a scruffy, haphazard lot and they like it that way.

My goal is twofold:

First, make a series of 'rival' heroes, the upstanding, noble, epic variety - not that this precludes them being thieves or whatnot, but the sort you might find in a David Eddings book. And like a David Eddings book, these rival heroes, every time they need to take a ship to another island, always find that the *same ship* just happens to be in port - the ship owned by our piratey heroes. I want the group to look at these heroes as "Oh, geeze, what is it with these guys?" and perhaps a little annoyance whenever the rival heroes end up outdoing their own escapades - but with an eye towards having to save their posteriors someday down the line, showing who the real badasses are. What I *don't* want to do is have them feel the DM is overshadowing them with these NPCs.

But I definitely want to have 'comparisons' able to be drawn between these two groups. The barbarian and the barbarian. The holy warrior and the holy warrior.

Second, I want a series of enemies. Persistant villains that keep coming back time and time again ... and keep escaping just before they die. A Linear Guild, if you will, either of 'dark reflections' as in the OotS ... or of direct opposites - the fighter with a magic-repelling sword versus the ship's mage, or some such.

I'd love some input or ideas, using mostly basic classes, as to ideas for these characters.

Home Team:

Captain - fighter/rogue
The captain is a pirate at heart. She's also the dragonblooded princess of a lost kingdom, seeking revenge on the black kobolds - and, eventually, the black dragon - who killed the her gold dragon ancestor and brought her kingdom to ruins. She has high dex, weapon finesse, and owns the ship they sail on. She also has been making money hand over fist with some clever merchanting - which has a higher profit rating when you get to steal half your cargo. She is a *classic* pirate, complete with cutlass and dirk, a poet's shirt, and the ability to swing across on a rope to the enemy ship, land on the sail, stick her knife in, and cut a huge gash as she rides the sail down to the deck. To her great and mighty annoyance, her curse causes her to be terribly *clumsy*, all the time. (she has to make a skill check or saving throw for mundane actions that would normally succeed automatically.)

Second Captain - wizard/rogue
DO NOT call him First Mate. This ship doesn't HAVE a First Mate! He's the Second Captain! An elf of his upstanding and noble heritage deserves to be captain. He seeks magical power, recognition, and all the finer things in life. And to be Captain of a ship.

Ratling - barbarian/rogue
The sea is awash with rat-people, they're everywhere. This is one of them. He's a survivalist, an outsider, and absolutely vicious against his enemies. Most of the time he's pretty calm, actually ... despite the fact that he has a different curse every day. He wants to be the ship's cook ... but no one else wants that. Not cause he's a rat - but because he has this disturbing habit of calling everyone he meets "Not Meat," with the implication that once they die, they become "Meat." (as long as it's not a Ratling, cause that'd be cannibalism.) And he keeps wanting to cook up *every single thing* they fight. Including giant centipedes or water-spiders.

Dwarven Cleric - cleric/rogue
This bald and shaven dwarf was cast out by his clan and his temple for being just a little bit *too* harsh. When he was put to work administering alms and soothing the ills of the poor ... he refused to heal anyone he felt was rude, unlikable, or just plain didn't deserve it. They sent him out into the world to learn humility ... but it really didn't take. He'll heal the party when they absolutely need it ... but really prefers to leave a few unhealed hit points so they'll learn to be more careful next time. HATES WIZARDS.

---- ---- ----
Rival Heroes (my intial ideas. New ideas welcome)
---- ---- ----

vs Captain: I accidentally made this one when they needed their ship fixed. A sorcerer shipbuilder who used magic to simply jump to the top of the mast, examine the ship from above, then slid down the sail by magically adhering his palm to the canvas with a custom spell varient on Featherfall. To which the Captain stared in jealous awe and whispered, "What are you?" "A shipbuilder!" "Riiiiiight, of course."

vs Second Captain: An elven wizard / artificer type who has allllll the toys.

Mary Fields vs Ratling: http://www.badassoftheweek.com/fields.html - a felan gourmet, barbarian rogue like he is.

Holy Avenger vs Dwarven Cleric: A half-elf paladin/rogue based off of Zorro: (dramatic music) "The Holy Avenger!" (/dramatic music)


---- ---- ----
Dark Enemies (I have much less of an idea here)
---- ---- ----

Dark General vs Captain: Half-dragon black kobold, son of the dragon who killed her own ancestral ruler. Fighter/sorcerer, dedicated to the betterment of his race.

Nullblade vs Second Captain: I'm thinking a fighter who has an anti-magic sword of some sort. Maybe can 'parry' spells to counter them, charging up the sword to do extra damage.

Psion vs Ratling: mental versus physical

Cultist vs Dwarven Cleric: I'm not sure yet, but I think 'foul and mutated worshipper of ancient powers' is pretty good.

HunterColt22
2012-10-19, 10:28 AM
More just a thought on my part, but why didn't they go Swashbuckler as their second class vs all the rogue? Considering the Swash fits more flavor wise. Just an after thought really, honestly though, rival heroes are easier of the two, since you are the dm and thus have access to their character sheets, and thus can build them to be a bit better, but not quite to show off that "flair" they have.

BowStreetRunner
2012-10-19, 12:01 PM
More just a thought on my part, but why didn't they go Swashbuckler as their second class vs all the rogue? Considering the Swash fits more flavor wise. Just an after thought really, honestly though, rival heroes are easier of the two, since you are the dm and thus have access to their character sheets, and thus can build them to be a bit better, but not quite to show off that "flair" they have.

I would guess that since he referred to this being mostly 3.0, swashbuckler might not have been available.

Which begs the question, which books are allowed?

ArcanaGuy
2012-10-19, 07:44 PM
No, Swashbuckler wasn't there, though I think it might be in one of my books here somewhere.....

I've got the main 3 books, several world books (forgotten realms, monte cook's world, etc), the five class splatbooks, and DragonStar, using the engineer class for an NPC gnome who maintains the boat. And a lot of other books besides, but for several of the group, this is their *first* D&D game, or the first one they're actually enjoying, and we're keeping it simple for now.

And I'm not worried about 'classes' so much as just 'concepts.'.

BowStreetRunner
2012-10-19, 08:14 PM
Okay, so we are talking PHB, MM1, DMG, Sword and Fist, Defenders of the Faith, Tome and Blood, Song and Silence, Masters of the Wild as your main 3.0 books.

For the dark enemy of your captain, put together a Half-Dragon Kobold who is a descendant of the black dragon who you mention above.

avr
2012-10-20, 03:53 AM
The ratling's counterpart should be a suave catfolk gourmet. Barbarian/rogue still works as the class; he/she gets angry, especially when wet. If you don't like that, ranger is an option.

ArcanaGuy
2012-10-20, 10:49 AM
Bow-Street Runner: Yup, those are about the books. A few more, but ... basically, yeah. One of the players also brought in the Seven Seas book, which she's excited about. And I think we have both Unearthed Arcana and Arcana Unearthed, somewhere.

I love the half-dragon black kobold idea. It's so obvious, I don't know how I missed it. Hrm. And given how kobolds are presented... he's lawful evil ... Honorable, dedicated to the advancement of his race. This is the chance for him to pave a path for the kobolds to be taken seriously by the other monstrous races. Not that he's beyond using a bit of poison and a lot of traps, though, and stacking the battlefield in his favor. Gotta make him a clever planner ... a fighter/sorcerer, I think ... channeling his magic into his fighting style... Ugh, too many high stats needed. But that's worth it for a repeating boss, especially the one who has to boss around all the other powerful stuff.

avr: A GOURMET! Oh my gosh, that's perfect. Brilliant. Love it. Using it!

Thank you, both of you!

dspeyer
2012-10-20, 11:03 AM
Suave catfolk gourmet psion (kineticist). Psion makes a nice contrast to barbarian, plus she gets to announce whether she's using the cook, ice-distill, marinate or tenderize variant of her powers. She's unhappy with the available beef, chicken and fish she normally has to cook with because none of it is quite as flavorful as rat.

ArcanaGuy
2012-10-20, 12:11 PM
plus she gets to announce whether she's using the cook, ice-distill, marinate or tenderize variant of her powers.

I'm not sure what you mean by this, unfortunately... I do have the psion handbook, but ... ohwait... fire, ice, acid, or ... force? *goes hunting for book* Man, it's been a while ...


She's unhappy with the available beef, chicken and fish she normally has to cook with because none of it is quite as flavorful as rat.

I'm really, really, really considering either this ... or lampshading this and twisting it around. Especially appropriate since the ship's alchemist, Doctor Rook, kinda accidentally killed all the rats. In the harbor.

BowStreetRunner
2012-10-20, 12:12 PM
Gotta make him a clever planner ... a fighter/sorcerer, I think ... channeling his magic into his fighting style... Ugh, too many high stats needed. But that's worth it for a repeating boss, especially the one who has to boss around all the other powerful stuff.

Stats shouldn't be too much of a problem for a Half-Dragon Kobold. The net result of race plus template should give you STR +4, DEX +2, CON +0, INT +2, WIS +0, CHA +2. Their natural armor should increase to +5 as well, which is nice for a fighter/sorcerer gish. Of course, I am going off of 3.5 SRD which may be slightly different from 3.0. Maybe consider Eldritch Knight or something similar for a prestige class...

dspeyer
2012-10-20, 12:21 PM
I'm not sure what you mean by this, unfortunately... I do have the psion handbook, but ... ohwait... fire, ice, acid, or ... force? *goes hunting for book* Man, it's been a while ...

It's all online. Psionic blasting usually allows a choice of fire, cold, acid or sonic. energy ray (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/energyRay.htm) is typical.

ArcanaGuy
2012-10-20, 12:24 PM
Stats shouldn't be too much of a problem for a Half-Dragon Kobold. The net result of race plus template should give you STR +4, DEX +2, CON +0, INT +2, WIS +0, CHA +2. Their natural armor should increase to +5 as well, which is nice for a fighter/sorcerer gish. Of course, I am going off of 3.5 SRD which may be slightly different from 3.0. Maybe consider Eldritch Knight or something similar for a prestige class...

Hrm. Not quite ...
Half Dragon: Str +8, Dex +0, Con +2, Int +2, Wis +0, Cha +2.
Kobold: Str -4, Dex +2, Con +2
Total: Str +4, Dex +2, Con +4, Int +2, Wis +0, Cha +2

But close. And good point. Everything's pluses. That's gonna be a surprisingly strong lil' guy.

Good idea on the Eldritch Knight. Forgot about that prestige class. Weapon casting feat, I think. All his natural spells will be acid-based, I think, but he will certainly have an energy substitution feat squirreled away and only pulled out in emergencies: Like when the people he's fighting have all stocked up on antacid equipment, thinking they know all his tricks. Perhaps give him a morningstar. Nothing like a morningstar that explodes with an acid cloud to give a really good sense of the importance of personal space.

BowStreetRunner
2012-10-20, 12:28 PM
SRD Kobold has -2 Constitution.

ArcanaGuy
2012-10-20, 12:34 PM
SRD Kobold has -2 Constitution.

Huh. So it does.

And the Slayer's Guide to Kobolds have it as +2. Yet the standard Kobold has CON 10.

Now I have to figure out which way I want to follow. Kobolds are really good at surviving ... they're tough, nasty little buggers. Yet their true survival traits aren't in their physical abilities, but in their wily little tricky ways ...

rweird
2012-10-21, 12:30 PM
Huh. So it does.

And the Slayer's Guide to Kobolds have it as +2. Yet the standard Kobold has CON 10.

Now I have to figure out which way I want to follow. Kobolds are really good at surviving ... they're tough, nasty little buggers. Yet their true survival traits aren't in their physical abilities, but in their wily little tricky ways ...

The SRD also says below the kobold warrior: "The kobold warrior presented here had the following ability scores before racial adjustments: Str 13, Dex 11, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 9, Cha 8."

ArcanaGuy
2012-10-21, 03:08 PM
Ah, I missed that part. Thank you! That answers that.