Star Citizen - Player-driven space sim

[HalfTangible]

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen

http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/star-citizen/

Star Citizen is a space sim that just got up a kickstarter (it's been crowdsourcing on it's own website up to this point) and I gotta say I'm hyped. The idea of owning or even just flying around in a massive starship, in a universe where players get to decide just about everything... THAT is awesome.

Granted, my PC atm is probably not going to be able to run it, but this'll probably be a good reason to get a new one. Thoughts?

[super dark33]

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen

http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/star-citizen/

Star Citizen is a space sim that just got up a kickstarter (it's been crowdsourcing on it's own website up to this point) and I gotta say I'm hyped. The idea of owning or even just flying around in a massive starship, in a universe where players get to decide just about everything... THAT is awesome.

Granted, my PC atm is probably not going to be able to run it, but this'll probably be a good reason to get a new one. Thoughts?


I hope it will include spaceships from famous media. ALL the spaceships from ALL the famous media.

[Vauron]

I can hear from here a thousand lawyers cry out in anguish over the thought of dealing with that many copyrights. 'All the spaceships from all the media' is essentially impossible, especially in a game that will presumably be sold for money. And that doesn't even address the wildly varying abilities of said ships. The closest you could get would be a very robust ship builder in game that just so happens to let you get close to classic ships with enough effort.

[HalfTangible]

I hope it will include spaceships from famous media. ALL the spaceships from ALL the famous media.


I can hear from here a thousand lawyers cry out in anguish over the thought of dealing with that many copyrights. 'All the spaceships from all the media' is essentially impossible, especially in a game that will presumably be sold for money. And that doesn't even address the wildly varying abilities of said ships. The closest you could get would be a very robust ship builder in game that just so happens to let you get close to classic ships with enough effort.

What he said.

Like how Spore lets you make the Death Star. It doesn't put it in, you just happen to be able to MAKE it =p

[Cikomyr]

I don't care so much about the potential shipdesigns in the game; that's superficial.

I'd hope for well written dynamic missions. Hopefully written by fans and approved by the devs. Which would have been gold in Skyrim. Actually going against the thieves guild rather than being railroaded into joining them.

Player-written military campaign where you are lost behind enemy lines. Or a Farscape storyline where you are thrown across space into unknown territories.

Or joining a Space Pirate gang.

[Trixie]

I hope it will include spaceships from famous media. ALL the spaceships from ALL the famous media.

Can anyone say: muhltiple, simuln-tehneous and devashtehting defensive deep stri... lawsuits? :smallamused:

[Aotrs Commander]

A wise decision, I think, to add a kickstarter. Given that I would have pledged last week, but I couldn't get registered on their website (and still haven't got it cleared up with their support.) I was going to give them until the end of this weekend before giving up (as it doesn't inspire confidence in their website if I have that much trouble...!), but I'm happy to use kickstarter instead. I appreiciate that it's probably because they just weren't really ready for the increased load and are having technical problems, but for me, that site is very slow, so I think it would just safer to use kickstarter at the moment.)

[HalfTangible]

Not like it's surprising, but Kickstarter worked and they have the money they needed to prove "hey, this is a game people will buy!"

November 2014 cannot come fast enough *drool*

[GloatingSwine]

Man, the fact that people trust Chris Roberts with actual money after he made the Wing Commander movie is baffling to me.

Especially when he has a super broad design goal and very few solid gameplay objectives.

But then this is why kickstarter funders are not actual publishers, because they don't have to worry about getting any return on their investment.

And, to be fair, people have probably forgotten how he drove his last space pew pew franchise into the ground then pissed on the remains.

[Aotrs Commander]

Man, the fact that people trust Chris Roberts with actual money after he made the Wing Commander movie is baffling to me.

Especially when he has a super broad design goal and very few solid gameplay objectives.

But then this is why kickstarter funders are not actual publishers, because they don't have to worry about getting any return on their investment.

And, to be fair, people have probably forgotten how he drove his last space pew pew franchise into the ground then pissed on the remains.

I think it's more a sign of desparation that many of us are so utterly fed-up with the state of gaming - pc gaming in particular - and the huge lack of new games outside shooters (I mean, fer cryin' out loud, isometric RPGs, space-sims - even RTS (the line really only held by Starcraft) and strats are starting to slowly fade, with only a rear-guard action being fought by independants making 4X games) that we'll gladly jump on a bandwagon, because at least it gives us some games to look foward to.

Even a fairly ropey space-flight sim is better than none at all (provided it's not so buggy it's unplayable; but you can get stung just as badly like that with pre-ordered publisher-released, regularly-funded games as well (the folks who pre-ordered Sword of the Stars 2 last year, for example), so 'taint any different there.)

And, moreover, at the very bare minimum it also sends a message to developers that there is still strong interest in these sorts of games; even if this doesn't pan out spectacularly, maybe someone else will try further down the line.

(And the chance to rattle a few cages at the publishers when they realise that they aren't actually necessary (at least for PC games) is good too! Seriously, with the amount of money Obsidian and such raise, the publishers ought to be starting to be at least a bit worried.)

[Trixie]

(And the chance to rattle a few cages at the publishers when they realise that they aren't actually necessary (at least for PC games) is good too! Seriously, with the amount of money Obsidian and such raise, the publishers ought to be starting to be at least a bit worried.)

Except, they are. Yes, some are stupid and cut corners/cookie cut in order to maximize profits (because stupid laws in some places will land CEO in jail if he fails to pursue maximized profit...) but good publisher not only will give you money to develop your game, they will also advise you what does and doesn't work, give advice what gamers like, can get you shared code and selling deals much better than you can get yourself due to having better negotiating position...

IMHO, Kickstarter is just a fad, or something that at best will take care of first stage of funding, the only thing that can replace publishers is kickstarter/publisher hybrid, and even that is dubious...

[HalfTangible]

Except, they are. Yes, some are stupid and cut corners/cookie cut in order to maximize profits (because stupid laws in some places will land CEO in jail if he fails to pursue maximized profit...) but good publisher not only will give you money to develop your game, they will also advise you what does and doesn't work, give advice what gamers like, can get you shared code and selling deals much better than you can get yourself due to having better negotiating position...

No, they're really not >.> "Neccessary" means "can't do without" and kickstarter's proven already you don't need publisher backing to get something done on there.

Sure, big projects like this one are going to need publisher backing (2 million isn't much to expect from millions of people reading your article, but 20 million is) but considering how much different projects on kickstarter raise, the costs to handing over your franchise to, say, EA or Activision is a lot higher than going onto kickstarter and asking for 500 grand for your great game idea.

Publishers aren't going to go away - certainly not any time soon, but they're no longer the end-all-be-all and that's probably gonna worry 'em.


IMHO, Kickstarter is just a fad, or something that at best will take care of first stage of funding, the only thing that can replace publishers is kickstarter/publisher hybrid, and even that is dubious...

I thought the same thing about Facebook once.

[Trixie]

No, they're really not >.> "Neccessary" means "can't do without" and kickstarter's proven already you don't need publisher backing to get something done on there.

Kickstarter proven that they are not necessary to produce the game - but in the same way you can write a book without writing editor - but good publisher will make the game much better, same as good editor with a book.

Plus, you can produce game, but someone still has to print/distribute and sell it, kickstarter will do nothing to replace this part of the process. Sure, it's a lot easier to get someone to sell if you have ready product, but on the other hand, companies tend to have a lot more trust in and give more ads to product they supervised and they're happy with.

At best, IMHO, kickstarter will take over games too small for most publishers to bother, say, 200K development cost indie game that can be hooked into one platform like Steam or iTunes for sale, because they are so small that losses from being exclusive to one distribution channel won't matter much.

But, sadly, AAA space sim game will still be far too big for kickstarted to handle, as will be any big RPG title or any other niche genre. Think Bastion and FTL, not next TIE Fighter or Final Fantasy title :smallfrown:

[Cikomyr]

At best, IMHO, kickstarter will take over games too small for most publishers to bother, say, 200K development cost indie game that can be hooked into one platform like Steam or iTunes for sale, because they are so small that losses from being exclusive to one distribution channel won't matter much.

But, sadly, AAA space sim game will still be far too big for kickstarted to handle, as will be any big RPG title or any other niche genre. Think Bastion and FTL, not next TIE Fighter or Final Fantasy title :smallfrown:

Although there is the possibility that a good kickstarter can help create enough publicity around the project so that it's picked up by a publisher, no?

[HalfTangible]

Kickstarter proven that they are not necessary to produce the game - but in the same way you can write a book without writing editor - but good publisher will make the game much better, same as good editor with a book.

Plus, you can produce game, but someone still has to print/distribute and sell it, kickstarter will do nothing to replace this part of the process. Sure, it's a lot easier to get someone to sell if you have ready product, but on the other hand, companies tend to have a lot more trust in and give more ads to product they supervised and they're happy with.

At best, IMHO, kickstarter will take over games too small for most publishers to bother, say, 200K development cost indie game that can be hooked into one platform like Steam or iTunes for sale, because they are so small that losses from being exclusive to one distribution channel won't matter much.

But, sadly, AAA space sim game will still be far too big for kickstarted to handle, as will be any big RPG title or any other niche genre. Think Bastion and FTL, not next TIE Fighter or Final Fantasy title :smallfrown:

AAA space sim games have been largely absent (if not entirely GONE) for a while. If nothing else, Kickstarter proved to the publisher that making the game was worth it.

Maybe, but publishers don't do the actual selling. If someone goes to, say Gamestop for instance, and says "I have this game you can sell for $30 and still make a profit" they're gonna listen. And publishers are making it harder on the consumer all the time, so if a customer hears, "hey, this $40 single-player game will work on a five year old computer and will work the moment it's installed" they'll listen to. I HOPE there's a healthy bit of skepticism, but it's not as much a problem as you make it sound =/ ... I hope.

From the sound of it, this thing is an MMO (despite his insistence otherwise) and that is probably why the cost is so high.

If I'm perfectly honest with you Trixie, the AAA industry has been repeat after repeat long enough that I am perfectly fine with one or two AAA franchises dieing if it means publishers are no longer the ONLY option available. I'm fine with no MMOs for a while. I am perfectly fine with publishers needing to lower development costs to protect their bottom line.

[Trixie]

Although there is the possibility that a good kickstarter can help create enough publicity around the project so that it's picked up by a publisher, no?

Sure, as I said it's a lot easier to talk about selling product when you have something concrete in hand, but the only conceivable way (to me, at least) kickstarters will even start threatening publishers and forcing them to seriously change is when games will attract 20-30 million range budgets. Until then, they will shrug and think 'meh, peanuts not worth picking from the ground'.

Then, there is small issue of kickstarters being not very secure, it's easy to cheat people out of their money or deliver only technically, true to the word, not spirit of promise. Once kickstarters will attract serious money, so they will attract frauds, and a few big embezzlement cases might crush the movement before it even began.

[Aotrs Commander]

Given the current alternative of "not have any more games I want to play ever", which is where the current gaming market - especially for PC - is heading (currently, there are THREE games upcoming in the next TWO YEARS that I'm remotely interested in - and two of those are Kickstarters (this and Project Eternity); and the other one is Heart of the Swarm.)

So, yeah, given that I don't give a flying crap about 99% of AAA titles (and even Bioware have managed to sour me to the point of great skepticism) so any games that come out in generas I like are going to get my attention, regardless of how they're funded. And the simple fact of the matter is that the big publishers tend to treat PC gamers like second-class citizens anyway (how many games is it that have come out of every platform - including handhelds - but not PC? For the stated reason we're all dirty little pirates...), at the minute, and on top of that they're just not interested in making the games I want to play (the chaps at Obsidian said when asked why isometric RPGs stopped being made, they realised the answer was just they stopped being made, not that there was any particular lack of demand.)

I personally don't care if Star Citizen Squadron 42 reaches the level of a AAA game or not, in the end; so long as it makes a reasonably entertaining and playable (i.e. functional) single-player game (I'm not asking for TIE Fighter or Freespace 2, here, I'd settle for Tachyon: the Fringe), I'll be happy, because there just isn't anything out there like it at the moment. I know, I've looked. (No, MMORPGs don't count; only interested in single-player campaigns.)

Besides, it's not that much different to pre-ordering a game. You pays your money, you takes your chances. I've been burned enough times by games I've paid full price for often enough over the years to know that just 'cos a publisher - even a big publisher - has something to do with it, is absolutely no garentee of quality. I've spent no more on the kickstarters than I would on a regular game, it's just I've put in my pre-order a lot earlier.

[HalfTangible]

I've been burned enough times by games I've paid full price for often enough over the years to know that just 'cos a publisher - even a big publisher - has something to do with it, is absolutely no garentee of quality.

(That part of Trixie's argument was actually referring to the trust of the distributor [such as gamestop] not the customer)

[Cikomyr]

A small title like this can always be upgraded, modded and expanded to eventually reach high quality in terms of graphics and support, it there is the popularity to back it up.

I still pin for a Battlestar Command simulator game.

[GloatingSwine]

A small title like this can always be upgraded, modded and expanded to eventually reach high quality in terms of graphics and support, it there is the popularity to back it up.

I still pin for a Battlestar Command simulator game.

I don't think you've read the pitch. He doesn't want to make a "small title", he wants to make the space pew pew to end all space pew pews where you can play at any level from a dude running around to a capital ship, and it hooks into a player driven MMO full of other people doing anything from dude running around to capital ships.

Except no-one will play that MMO, because it's already out, it's called Eve Online, and anyone who would possibly want to play a game like that is already playing Eve.

And the flying around space pew pew genre died for a reason. The reason is that there are only a very limited number of things you can actually do in a game like that, and between the X-Wing, Wing Commander, and Freespace series we've basically done them all. There simply isn't the same scope for variation in gameplay that there was in other genres.

[HalfTangible]

Except no-one will play that MMO, because it's already out, it's called Eve Online, and anyone who would possibly want to play a game like that is already playing Eve....

...Uh, dude? I've played EVE online (a little bit) and the only two things these two games have in common is that they are player-driven and occur in space.

EVE has very static characters and ships - you choose to fight and that's it, you just circle and fire, letting the combat take it's course and occasionally using another ability (i think you use abilities, anyway - it's been a while and my ship kinda sucked)

This, on the other hand, is meant to be an extremely detailed, real time ship-to-ship battle in an MMO. THAT'S different. And to be perfectly frank, I find the idea that I'd be in a ship and be able to choose where I go, how I fly and how I fire a lot more entertaining than just picking a target and saying 'orbit'.

Saying the two are similar is one thing. Saying that they're the exact same experience is bull - it's like saying Guild Wars and WoW are the same game: it's only true if you look solely at the aesthetics and/or setting.


And the flying around space pew pew genre died for a reason. The reason is that there are only a very limited number of things you can actually do in a game like that, and between the X-Wing, Wing Commander, and Freespace series we've basically done them all. There simply isn't the same scope for variation in gameplay that there was in other genres.

The genre was no longer being made - it died in that sense, yes. But that doesn't mean that interest in the genre died, and judging from the reaction I'd say interest has NOT died.

[Lord of the Helms]

Man, the fact that people trust Chris Roberts with actual money after he made the Wing Commander movie is baffling to me.

Especially when he has a super broad design goal and very few solid gameplay objectives.

But then this is why kickstarter funders are not actual publishers, because they don't have to worry about getting any return on their investment.

And, to be fair, people have probably forgotten how he drove his last space pew pew franchise into the ground then pissed on the remains.


Last I checked, he made something like, oh, this here after the Wing Commander movie, and it can't hardly be called driven into the ground: http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/freelancer

Notice how this game was a case of the end product falling far, far short of the original expectations we were given in many aspects, and it still holds an 85 critic / 8.8 user score on metacritic? That's right, a "disappointing" game by Chris Roberts is still one of the most well-liked space sims of the last 10 years. THAT is why people are trusting him with money. Well, and because the supply of AAA space sims, as others have noted, has been slightly less frequent in the past few years than snowfall on Venus.

[GloatingSwine]

That's right, a "disappointing" game by Chris Roberts is still one of the most well-liked space sims of the last 10 years.

That's because it's just about the only space sim made in the last ten years. Even Freespace 2, which is basically an internet darling, sold very little despite its critical reception.

Before FS2 it was actually quite a solid genre in PC gaming, X-Wing and TIE Fighter spawned quite the little brood of imitators, and they seemed like solid bets. Then Freespace 2 came out and despite it being one of the best of the bunch, bigger and shinier than any before it, the sales suddenly weren't there.

The reason publishers stopped making these games is because people stopped buying them.

And this still doesn't address the point that the genre was basically played out by the time of FS2. What are you expecting a new game to do that wasn't already possible in games that were already made, and how are you expecting it to be better and more compelling than it already was before? Because if you can't answer that there's really no point making a new space pew pew, because like all the ones that have come out in the last ten years it'll actually be rubbish. (Unless you're going to argue that fundamentally and perennially broken products like the X series count as "good games".)

[SmartAlec]

What are you expecting a new game to do that wasn't already possible in games that were already made, and how are you expecting it to be better and more compelling than it already was before? Because if you can't answer that there's really no point making a new space pew pew, because like all the ones that have come out in the last ten years it'll actually be rubbish.

Roberts mentions some new approaches in modelling ship damage dynamically, and using physics models to simulate how that damage affects ship performance. That lends itself to the possibility of some interesting scenarios, and having to struggle against changes in how your ship flies and handles in the middle of combat.

Having a character who is 'you' walk around the carrier/base/landing zone is an interesting item. I've always wanted a 'Grand Theft Auto in Space', in which you play a person who can get into, and pilot, spacecraft. Although this game isn't that, the best space sims had that feeling of being the pilot of a spacecraft rather than the spacecraft itself.

And, lastly, online free-flying dog-fighting space trading universe! It's Wing Commander: Privateer Online! Online persistent space sim twitch-gaming! I've been waiting for that since... well, since the idea of Elite 4 was raised back in the late 90's.

No, don't bring up EVE - I'm a big fan of space trading sims and space combat sims, almost all of the ones I've played, and I loathed EVE Online. It's not even trying to compare WoW and Guild Wars, it's like trying to compare WoW and Mount and Blade.

[Aotrs Commander]

And this still doesn't address the point that the genre was basically played out by the time of FS2. What are you expecting a new game to do that wasn't already possible in games that were already made, and how are you expecting it to be better and more compelling than it already was before?

This same comment can be levelled at pretty much every genera, though; aside from improved interfaces and better graphics (which have long-since reached the point that I no longer care about; they're plenty good enough), aside from a few standouts, a lot of generas aren't better than their predessors were ten years plus years ago. Planescape Torment has still to be equalled (even with stiff competition from Bioware's better RPGs); even the later space-sims still never managed to top TIE Fighter; Tiberium Sun and Red Alert 2 are still arguably the best of the franchise. Doesn't mean that games designers should stop trying, or that, just because they may never reach the apogee, no-one should try climbing as high up the mountain as they can.



In answer then, what I personally want is More TIE Fighter (with improved graphics, because TIE's are gettin' on a bit; but, as stated, my criterion that would satisy that falls much shorter than "better than AAA games.")

Not interested in multiplayer, not interested in open-universe, what I want is a new chance to fly around and shoot stuff with a reasonably interesting campaign story backstop (which is, let's face it, why TIE was so awesome).

Some of the things Squadron 42 is proposing, some of the new innovations, I'm really not that bothered about, and would happily skip. For me, it doesn't need to try to do anything super-clever, just give me some new stuff to play, with perhaps a tad more production values and stability than I'd get out of fan-mods of say, Freespace 2. But if it does as well, then all the better. Heck, as I said before, even it it's only moderately good, not earth-shattering, I'll be happy. Tachyon the Fringe wasn't especially brilliant, but it was enjoyable all the same (also, you were playing Bruce Cambell, so there was that...!)

[Trixie]

One thing that bugs me in this thread is how people talk about Wing Commander and Freespace - was I the only one who played Starlancer/Freelancer? :smallfrown:

I still think movie based on intro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsWPFUzxgRU) alone would be better than most space operas out there...

[HalfTangible]

One thing that bugs me in this thread is how people talk about Wing Commander and Freespace - was I the only one who played Starlancer/Freelancer? :smallfrown:

I still think movie based on intro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsWPFUzxgRU) alone would be better than most space operas out there...

"No one is remembered for their successes when they have failures to look to." -Some idiot in his home who thought naming himself after Nether was a good idea :smalltongue::smallwink:

[Aotrs Commander]

One thing that bugs me in this thread is how people talk about Wing Commander and Freespace - was I the only one who played Starlancer/Freelancer? :smallfrown:

I still think movie based on intro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsWPFUzxgRU) alone would be better than most space operas out there...

Because it illustrates the other thing that killed some interest space sims towards the end (which I had forgotten about, actually): thirteen missions does not a game make (in the latter, anyway). (And, as I've said before, don't care about the open universe bit.) They stopped putting enough missions in for the single-player-only crowd.

I think it was stuff like Jedi Starfighter (which had about twenty missons) that had me saying "leave it out chaps, that ain't worth £30, come back when you've got the thirty-odd XWA has and we'll talk..."

I think space sims were among the first to suffer the force of lazy single-player for having multiplayer skirmish content (something that now has moved on to most RTS (SCII being the big exception.))

[Cikomyr]

One thing that bugs me in this thread is how people talk about Wing Commander and Freespace - was I the only one who played Starlancer/Freelancer? :smallfrown:

I still think movie based on intro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsWPFUzxgRU) alone would be better than most space operas out there...

Was Freespace the game where you are initially at war against the... Vasuvi..? And then an unknown race with red starships and cloaking technology arrive and start shooting everybody to death?

With this race's capital ship being the Lucifer?

[Aotrs Commander]

Was Freespace the game where you are initially at war against the... Vasuvi..? And then an unknown race with red starships and cloaking technology arrive and start shooting everybody to death?

With this race's capital ship being the Lucifer?

That was Freespace 1 (and/or 2), yes. (Vasudens and Shivans are the names of the races you're looking for.)

[Cikomyr]

:smallbiggrin:

That was my first Space Sim ever!! It was fun!

Although I am not sure which one I prefer, between Freespace and Starlancer. Starlancer was gold... COLD WAR IN SPAZZZZZ!!!

[SmartAlec]

Let's not forget the space sims out there who tried to model spacecraft larger than fighters - I-War, for example.

[GloatingSwine]

Let's not forget the space sims out there who tried to model spacecraft larger than fighters - I-War, for example.

We probably should forget I-War, to be honest. Because the attempt to put quasi-newtonian mechanics into a space pew pew was not successful.

Besides which, I-war made essentially no attempt to capitalise on the fact that you were in a corvette sized vessel, you still did all the same stuff you did in X-Wing, just more annoyingly because of its physics model.

[Lord of the Helms]

One thing that bugs me in this thread is how people talk about Wing Commander and Freespace - was I the only one who played Starlancer/Freelancer? :smallfrown:

I still think movie based on intro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsWPFUzxgRU) alone would be better than most space operas out there...

I mentioned Freelancer above, since it was Chris Roberts' last Space Sim. :smallwink: I also played Starlancer, but, while solid fun, it wasn't anywhere near as good as Freelancer. Also, I played the German version, which was an embarassment due to the atrocious accents they gave pretty much everyone.

For non-Roberts-related stuff, Darkstar One was the last space sim I can recall. Honorable mention goes to Aquanox and Aquanox 2: Revelation, which were futuristic submarine sims but played very similarly to space sims in practice.

[Cikomyr]

Man... Darkstar One got boring very quickly... Not a good purchase for me.

[Lord of the Helms]

Sooooooooooo...looks like this is getting made, and there are in fact still a couple of people willing to pay for a space sim out there:

https://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/star-citizen/

Not sure how much more they can get in the next hour and a half, but they've already exceeded all their own goals as well as the previous record for game crowdfunding. :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:

Anyone else in? Cause I am :smallsmile:

[Aotrs Commander]

I was surprised actually, I didn't think they'd do as well as Obsidian; I'd have thought space sims were more of niche than old-school isometric RPGs. Obviously, I'm wrong!

I wonder if it's perhaps we haven't had any serious mainstream releases of the former for over ten years, while we have had some good RPGs since (e.g. Bioware (mostly...!)), so people aren't quite as desparate. Or perhaps Wing Commander was one of those things that was more popular and well known before I got a PC (I didn't get a PC and get into video gaming until very late - '96-'97; before then, it was just a novelty).

[Trixie]

I wonder if it's perhaps we haven't had any serious mainstream releases of the former for over ten years, while we have had some good RPGs since (e.g. Bioware (mostly...!)), so people aren't quite as desparate. Or perhaps Wing Commander was one of those things that was more popular and well known before I got a PC (I didn't get a PC and get into video gaming until very late - '96-'97; before then, it was just a novelty).

Freelancer is 2003, Babylon 5: I've Found Her (which is free now) 2006, X series (7 titles) 1999-2013 (X Rebirth will be released then).

These are just 3 first titles that come to mind, but still, not entirely 10 years :smalltongue:

Although I wish Disney moved its arse and finally made TIE Fighter II.

[Lord of the Helms]

Freelancer is 2003, Babylon 5: I've Found Her (which is free now) 2006, X series (7 titles) 1999-2013 (X Rebirth will be released then).

These are just 3 first titles that come to mind, but still, not entirely 10 years :smalltongue:

Although I wish Disney moved its arse and finally made TIE Fighter II.

I'll give you Freelancer, but X was always a hardcore niche series, and I've never even heard of any official Babylon 5 game, and I'm a pretty big Babylon 5 fan. So that's one mainstream space sim that was (barely) released in the past decade.

[Destro_Yersul]

Yeah, I sent some money to these guys. Space sims are one of my favourite types of games, and not enough of them are getting made.

[Aotrs Commander]

Freelancer is 2003, Babylon 5: I've Found Her (which is free now) 2006, X series (7 titles) 1999-2013 (X Rebirth will be released then).

These are just 3 first titles that come to mind, but still, not entirely 10 years :smalltongue:

Although I wish Disney moved its arse and finally made TIE Fighter II.

The former and latter are not military campaign space-sims - I wasn't not counting sandbox Elite-type clones (though I suppose I should have been more specific) - there might be one in X somewhere, perhaps, but it doesn't look like it from wiki. (Nor would I attribute the X series as being "mainstream.")

I've never heard of the B5 one, which shows it's obviously obscure, since I've made concerted efforts via things like wiki to try and locate any spaceflight sims on more than one occasion in the past (and I found things like the Babylon 5 Freespace mod1, and depressing rumours of the cancelled official B5 sim), so it must have been quite well hidden.



1Last time I had spate of flying, I played Tachyon the Fringe, Freespace 2 and got two-third through the way of the Freespace 1 conversion mod (and had gotten the Babylon Project ready). But I think my joystick has bust (annoyingly, 'taint that old) since then, so I'll have to get a new one for Squadron 42. (Despressingly, when I last looked, despite the march of time, a replacement for my Logitech Extreme 3D Pro looks to be another Logitech Extreme 3D Pro, as there appear to be precious few joysticks around these days. (Certainly at sane prices, anyway!)

[Cikomyr]

Angry Joe pledge his support to Star Citizen... (http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/bt/aj/as/37309-angry-specials-star-citizen-pledge)

[Trixie]

The former and latter are not military campaign space-sims - I wasn't not counting sandbox Elite-type clones (though I suppose I should have been more specific) - there might be one in X somewhere, perhaps, but it doesn't look like it from wiki. (Nor would I attribute the X series as being "mainstream.")

Well, technically Freelancer halfway was, but ok. I liked it because it had nice SW mods, that feeling to get into TIE Fighter again...


I've never heard of the B5 one, which shows it's obviously obscure, since I've made concerted efforts via things like wiki to try and locate any spaceflight sims on more than one occasion in the past.

I've never even heard of any official Babylon 5 game, and I'm a pretty big Babylon 5 fan. So that's one mainstream space sim that was (barely) released in the past decade.

Babylon 5: I’ve Found Her was made by Russian studio, then translated to English by fans and (since they couldn't sell outside of Russia) released to international players for free (http://games.softpedia.com/get/Freeware-Games/Babylon-5-Ive-Found-Her.shtml). To this day it has quite dedicated modders making new ships and campaigns, though, ironically, modern PCs can generate better graphics than the original show had...

One thing, though, it does use Newtonian model of flying, not SW-like one, if more "realistic" approach isn't your cup of tea you might not like it.

[thorgrim29]

Looks interesting, I'll probably buy it when it goes into the beta. At the very least the single player part sounds fun, and if they can deliver even half of what they're hinting at for the persistent world, I have this vision of a small group (40 or so) players based on a larger ship who do their own thing but come together to do trade missions and hire out as mercenaries.

[Trixie]

Speaking of Space Sims, this (http://store.steampowered.com/app/223430) just hit Steam. So, people still make them after all? :smallconfused:

[Cikomyr]

Speaking of Space Sims, this (http://store.steampowered.com/app/223430) just hit Steam. So, people still make them after all? :smallconfused:

This is clearly the cultural backwash of the Star Citizen popular surge! :smallbiggrin:

[Aotrs Commander]

I notice that was crowd-funded too...

Not... massively convinced by the trailer, given that a lot of the flying seems sort of... inside and general feel seems to suggest that you're flying, I dunno, something like feels more like a workpod than a fighter.

Nevertheless, single player flight sim with a sensible amount of missions, so I'll keep my eye on it a bit down the line (when they've ironed some of the kinks out, especially making sure the joysticks work...) My joystick annoyingly (because, although not heavily used, it's only four years old, and still one of the few makes on the market...) appears to have stopped functioning properly, so I'll have to replace it before I can play any flight sims anyway.

(Incidently, does anybody have any recommendations? When I last looked on Amazon, I couldn't see anything that looked better than my current Logitech Extreme 3D Pro... Primarily I want at least as many, if not more buttons (it has a dozen including trigger), but also not to be spending stupid amounts of money (like hundred quid or something...))

[GloatingSwine]

Speaking of Space Sims, this (http://store.steampowered.com/app/223430) just hit Steam. So, people still make them after all? :smallconfused:

Miner Wars is basically Descent.

It's not quite the same as the classic space sim, the main difference is that you move more like an FPS but with the ability to turn on two axes not one.

[Trixie]

I notice that was crowd-funded too...

Not... massively convinced by the trailer, given that a lot of the flying seems sort of... inside and general feel seems to suggest that you're flying, I dunno, something like feels more like a workpod than a fighter.

Crowd-funded? Where? If you mean Greenlight, it's just a vote for next game to be accepted into Steam shop, not crowdfunding?

Speaking of space sims on Steam, noticed recently this series too: SW I (http://store.steampowered.com/app/46270), II (http://store.steampowered.com/app/46260), III (http://store.steampowered.com/app/46280).

Flying inside, well, aside from the fact the trailer seems to have a lot of open space, it's far easier to do empty void than inside of star base or star dreadnought, any game that allows me to fly into one to get a kill is a plus :smalltongue:


Miner Wars is basically Descent.

It's not quite the same as the classic space sim, the main difference is that you move more like an FPS but with the ability to turn on two axes not one.

I played both Descents, and if anything, they had the best space-feeling control I remember, allowing you real 3D movement. Whatever you say about Freespace or TIE Fighter, their controls felt a lot more... 2D, from lack of better word.

[Aotrs Commander]

Crowd-funded? Where? If you mean Greenlight, it's just a vote for next game to be accepted into Steam shop, not crowdfunding?

The part in the Survival & Sandbox where it says "Devoted community which crowd-funded the development," so one must conclude that it is, at least partly crowd funded.


I played both Descents, and if anything, they had the best space-feeling control I remember, allowing you real 3D movement. Whatever you say about Freespace or TIE Fighter, their controls felt a lot more... 2D, from lack of better word.

They felt like - especially TIE, which was my favourite - like flying a aerospace fighter; which was good, since I cut my teeth in PC gaming on US Navy Fighters, and that was what I wanted. But milage and all that.

[Trixie]

Eh, I don't say they were worse, especially TIE, Descent was too tricky to steer properly without gimmicky joystick, but it was the only game where you really felt zero gravity, IMHO.

Hmm, there's also this (http://store.steampowered.com/app/212010) :smallwink:

[Cikomyr]

Eh, I don't say they were worse, especially TIE, Descent was too tricky to steer properly without gimmicky joystick, but it was the only game where you really felt zero gravity, IMHO.

Hmm, there's also this (http://store.steampowered.com/app/212010) :smallwink:

Just saw the video. Doesn't look that bad, until I saw that the ship practically shoots coloured lights like candy.

I don't like these kind of mechanic where weaponry practically is the equivalent of shooting rubber balls at the ennemy. I like B5 and nBSG; where it's all about aligning your shot right and getting 1 hit.