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View Full Version : Javelin Melee/Ranged build help [3.5]



Igneel
2012-10-19, 10:12 PM
I'm getting ready to build a back up character with my current one up on the execution chopping block with little hope of being rescued. As my party largely needs someone that is capable of at least the 'Point Blank' ranged distance along with an additional meatwall and possible trapfinder I thought about trading in my Ranger with the Trapfinding from Cityscape alteration for a Human Rogue 2/Fighter 4/Master Thrower 1.

I planned to at least use the Gloves of Endless Javelins [MiC] for basically an endless supply of +1 Javelins made of force as my default weapons but will have some actual ones in case of AMFs along with another backup weapon or two.

Currently I was thinking about going with the Javelin thanks to a feat I found in Drow of the Underdark called Tormtor School that requires Point Blank & Weapon Focus (Javelin) [gonna grab these feats for Master Thrower anyways] to gain the ability to use Javelins in melee without the -4 penalty, the ability to throw at another enemy after hitting one in melee, and a free +1 to damage rolls.
Now one of the biggest problems is that going from melee to range provokes AoOs and the only thing I can think of to avoid them is to use the first of my Thrown Weapon Tricks to snag Defensive Throw to make Concentration checks DC 10+1/threatening enemies.
Does anyone know of anything else that might help me in avoiding AoOs?

Other things to take note about the character building rules and such...

Starting level at 7
Two Flaws are allowed
Gain feats every odd-level in place of standard feat progression
Iterative attacks from Base Attack Bonus have a penalty of -5, non stacking.
If you have at least 1 BAB, you can Point Blank Shot with any ranged weapon you are proficient in.
If you have at least 4 BAB, you can Precise Shot with any ranged weapon you are proficient in.
If you have Precise Shot, you can still shoot at opponents in melee without the -4 Attack Roll Penalty, and gain an additional +2 Bonus to Attack and Damage Rolls.
If you have the Point Blank Shot feat, you get a +2 Bonus to Attack and Damage Rolls at 30 ft., instead of +1. With Precise and Point Blank Shots, that's a +4 Bonus to Attack Rolls at 30 ft.
If you have at least 1 BAB, you can Power Attack with any weapon you are proficient in. If you have the Power Attack feat, you gain a +3 bonus on her melee damage rolls for every –2 penalty you take on you melee attack rolls when using the Power Attack feat (or +3 for every –1 penalty if wielding a two-handed weapon other than a double weapon).
If you have at least 4 BAB, you can apply Weapon Focus to one weapon in a line that automatically scales with HD. At 4 you are considered to have Weapon Specialization with that weapon, at 8 Greater Weapon Focus, and at 12 Greater Weapon Specialization.
If you take the Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus and Greater Weapon Specialization Feats, double the bonuses.
Characters who 'Dip Fighter', as in taking 1 to 3 levels of Fighter, doubles the effects of using the Path, and triples the effects of taking the feats.
A Fighter who qualifies for a Single Class Bonus Feat for Fighter, or has taken four levels of Fighter, immediately has the effects of the Weapon Focus Path become tripled, and the effects of the relevant Feats are multiplied by Four.
ToB isn't allowed.


So besides the obvious Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus (Javelin), and Tormtor School feats what other feats would be worthwhile to grab?

BowStreetRunner
2012-10-19, 10:41 PM
Defensive Archery feat gives a +4 dodge bonus to AC against AoO when you make a ranged attack
Whisperknife 3rd level ability Defensive Throw allows you to throw weapons without provoking AoO - gotta be a halfling to take the class though

Edit: Oh, and there is always Greater Invisibility.

"You can’t execute an attack of opportunity against an opponent with total concealment, even if you know what square or squares the opponent occupies"...and..."invisibility provides total concealment". - from various sections of the SRD.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2012-10-19, 11:12 PM
"A javelin created by the gloves lasts
until you resolve an attack with it or
until the end of your turn, whichever
comes first."

"If you deal damage on a melee attack with a javelin,
you can then throw that javelin at any other target within 30
feet as a swift action (using your highest base ranged attack
bonus)."

You cannot use Tormtor School with the javelins from Gloves of Endless Javelins. You still benefit from the passive benefits, but an endless javelin that hits with an attack goes away and cannot be thrown.


Ranged Weapon Mastery (PH2) is an obvious choice, and I'd go for TWF (possibly combine Gloves of Endless Javelins with Gloves of the Balanced Hand for a 50% increase on the price of the cheaper one, DMG p282). Focusing on Strength with Brutal Throw (CV) would probably give you a better damage output.

You can trade Ride for Tumble (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) as a class skill, to help you get out of melee to avoid AoOs. Consider using the Thug variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighterVariantThug) of Fighter, maybe even pick up one or more Zhentarim Soldier (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a) sub levels, and don't forget free class features (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20061013a). Also consider Feat Rogue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rogue) to get two bonus feats instead of 1d6 sneak attack.

I'd wear spiked armor for a handy melee weapon, you'll still threaten adjacent squares and be able to AoO with them even if you're using both hands to throw javelins every round.

Igneel
2012-10-19, 11:52 PM
Defensive Archery feat gives a +4 dodge bonus to AC against AoO when you make a ranged attack
Whisperknife 3rd level ability Defensive Throw allows you to throw weapons without provoking AoO - gotta be a halfling to take the class though

Edit: Oh, and there is always Greater Invisibility.

Defensive Archery is a possibility, a +4 is better then nothing at least.
Don't think I could get to that PrC level point without some leveling. A thoughtful idea though.
Kinda limited in spellcasters to possibly one arcane caster pending if the last player making a back up character goes that route. Our party consists mostly of divine casters currently.


"A javelin created by the gloves lasts
until you resolve an attack with it or
until the end of your turn, whichever
comes first."

"If you deal damage on a melee attack with a javelin,
you can then throw that javelin at any other target within 30
feet as a swift action (using your highest base ranged attack
bonus)."

You cannot use Tormtor School with the javelins from Gloves of Endless Javelins. You still benefit from the passive benefits, but an endless javelin that hits with an attack goes away and cannot be thrown.

Ah, didn't notice that tiny detail. I'll double check with the Dm but he seemed okay with the fact that I can summon a new one as a Free action and treat the Ranged throw as a sort of Swift action for a 'one time per round' kind of limit.


Ranged Weapon Mastery (PH2) is an obvious choice, and I'd go for TWF (possibly combine Gloves of Endless Javelins with Gloves of the Balanced Hand for a 50% increase on the price of the cheaper one, DMG p282). Focusing on Strength with Brutal Throw (CV) would probably give you a better damage output.
Seems Ranged Weapon Mastery requires a base attack bonus of +8 which will have to wait for a future level but is a good choice for later certainly.
Will have to check with the price tag that will come with those modified gloves but certainly worthwhile even without grabbing TWF.
I forgot the book that Brutal Throw was in! Definitely going onto my list of feats to grab.


You can trade Ride for Tumble (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) as a class skill, to help you get out of melee to avoid AoOs. Consider using the Thug variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighterVariantThug) of Fighter, maybe even pick up one or more Zhentarim Soldier (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a) sub levels, and don't forget free class features (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20061013a). Also consider Feat Rogue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rogue) to get two bonus feats instead of 1d6 sneak attack.
Thug (more skills yay!), Zhentarim Soldier, and Feat Rogue (+1d6 sneak attack isn't helping much anyways atm) go quite well with the concept which surprises me that I didn't think of them earlier.
I forgot to mention that we were already playing with the Dead Levels stuff so that's covered.


I'd wear spiked armor for a handy melee weapon, you'll still threaten adjacent squares and be able to AoO with them even if you're using both hands to throw javelins every round.
Always a good idea as a backup melee weapon. Kind of brings up an interesting image of a person in spiky armor trying to tumble but shouldn't cause too much trouble.

Thanks for all the help both of you! Really got some progress done with those tips.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2012-10-20, 12:26 AM
Always a good idea as a backup melee weapon. Kind of brings up an interesting image of a person in spiky armor trying to tumble but shouldn't cause too much trouble.

Armor Razors in Underdark are identical to Armor Spikes in every way except damage type: slashing, if you think that would be more fitting. They're just as useful for getting out of being swallowed whole, and can also be used against nets and similar.

BowStreetRunner
2012-10-20, 03:13 PM
Boots of Tracklessness, Ring of Vanishing, and Dust of Disappearance all have a Greater Invisibility effect.

Igneel
2012-10-21, 07:34 PM
Alright, with what I have currently using the houserules my Javelin tosser is boasting a +15/10 to hit in melee (not counting I/TWF) with his force javelins (+14 damage) and a +19/14 for range within 30ft (+20 damage).

Currently am trying to figure out two more feats for 1st lvl when I still have a BaB of +0 (going Rogue for first.) What I have is as follows...
Human- Able Learner
Flaw- Dreadful Wrath
Flaw- ?
1st- ?
Rogue 1st- TWF
Rogue 2nd- Point Blank Shot
3rd- WF (Javelins)
Fighter 2nd- Rapid Shot
Fighter 3rd- Skill Focus (Intimidate)
5th- Precise Shot
Bonus feat [get +1/4 lvls of base class]- Sharpshooter (homebrew feat to add up to double your Str mod from Dex's mod to damage)
Fighter 4th- WS (Javelins)
Master Thrower- Quick Draw
7th- Tormtor School

Think I should go for some utility feats such as Scorpion's Resolve (Sandstorm, +4 to Will saves) or any other suggestions?

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2012-10-21, 07:50 PM
Ability Focus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#abilityFocus): Dreadful Wrath gives you +2 DC.

Nymph's Kiss (BoED, exalted) gives you an extra skill point/level and a bonus on Cha-based checks, including Intimidate checks.

Maybe switch from Human to Desert Half-Orc (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm#desertHalfOrcs) and use the Half-Humans variant in Races of Destiny (p150) to still be able to get Able Learner. That way you can get Menacing Demeanor (or say you visited the Otyugh Hole to get it for 3,000 gp instead of spending a feat on it). In that case though you'll probably want to include at least one level of Half-Orc Paragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm#halfOrcParagon).