Crustypeanut
2012-10-20, 04:22 AM
Hey guys, got another question for you (Been having a few of those lately):
I'm continuing my efforts in creating a campaign for my players. The ideas I have for the plot are sound, thanks to a few of you guys here on the forums.
Now, I'm starting to work on more of the specifics. My first goal is to come up with encounter ideas that can challenge a very damage-oriented group. I've DM'd for, and played with, these guys in the past. Very often they focus on damage over control (Or control through damage?), usually physical damage, and very often close range, if not necessarily melee. They also generally use in-combat healing and few buffs, though this last part may change due to the fact the player who usually plays the healer, and enjoys it, will no longer be joining us.
So, I'm looking for ways to make them use strategy besides positioning and teamwork. They're good at that.. they back each other up, position squishies properly, etc. But when they encounter things that they aren't quite used to, they generally just bash it until it dies, even if its inefficient.
For example, in my last campaign, the party consisted of:
A Half-Orc Barbarian
A Human Pistolero (Gunslinger Archetype)
A Human Rogue with a Greatsword
A Human Cleric Heal-Bot (A damned good one too)
A Dwarf Witch with a 15 ft Beard
The Barbarian was simple in that he generally charged and smashed. His rage powers were oriented around anti-caster roles, and he roleplayed the part well. He used a Scythe and Medium armor, so he was very durable and crit like a truck.
The Pistolero dual-wielded double barreled pistols (Using Weapon Cords to drop, reload, and swift-pick it back up) and was the main damage dealer of the party, even considering the rest of them. He hit hard, he hit often.
The Rogue was the barbarian's tag team buddy, and very much acted like a slightly-smarter barbarian. Very reckless, but hits like a truck. Also was very proficient at tripping and feinting. If anyone utilized control, it was this guy and his trip. He also once sneak attacked someone with a boat.
The Cleric spammed heals and channels mainly.. though he was a great roleplayer outside of combat.
The Witch.. almost exclusively used Fortune on his allies, Misfortune on his enemies, and Cackle to keep it up. He'd occasionally vomit spiders on people or choke them 80 ft up in the air with his beard while singing "I can show you the world!" But other than that, he buffed and debuffed. Since the campaign's ended, he's changed to playing more damage type characters in my friend's campaign, so I'm going to assume something similar here.
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Some things they had trouble with when I did try and spin things on them were:
Once, I threw a gargoyle wizard at them, who focused mostly on area control spells or AoE offensive spells. This Gargoyle was modified in that it lost it's racial HD, however. Since it flew, and the only other person who could fly was the witch, I was hoping to see some kind of air combat, but instead, the Gunslinger, using pistols with only a 20 ft range increment, was the only one focusing on the wizard. The Wizard was flying ~50 feet up in the air, and had damage reduction. This meant that the gunslinger had to not only hit the AC with a -4 (plus dual wielding plus using both barrels) and only chipped away at the wizard. Once that proved to ineffective for 4 rounds, he started shooting the wizard's wings (I was allowing the Called Shots alternative rules), which slowed him down and knocked him down a few feet, but this continued the same until finally the gunslinger finished him off. The rest of the party had taken care of the rest of their enemies without too much of a hassle, except the barbarian surviving by the skin of his teeth using his 1/day Orc Ferocity. If he didn't have that, he'd have died due to unconciousness and Rage not faring too well together.
In that same session, the Rogue tried to go toe to toe, solo, against an ogre zombie and nearly got killed as well. He also (in an earlier session) ran straight into a kobold ambush, jumped over a barricade, and threw acid in the kobold leader's face. While funny, he was prone to doing reckless things that nearly got him killed.
I have yet to start this new campaign - so I'm not sure what exactly the players will be bringing onto the field. I have only vague ideas of what they're planning, though one has expressed fairly strong interest in a crossbow-fighter. Still, I'm assuming they'll focus on damage over control for the most part.
As for what I'm planning so far, it's going to start off with a good old fashioned dungeon crawl in a dwarven ruin, with one of my BBEG's deep inside, who's a master at summoning and creating golems. So while I don't want the entire dungeon to focus on this, outsiders (of any alignment) and constructs will be somewhat prevalent, at least deeper inside.
Any thoughts on how I can challenge them, without simply throwing things at them that are too high CR for their level, like I did in my last campaign? (They survived a CR 11 encounter at level 6, with only one guy nearly dying.)
Also, as a final note, I'm starting to think I type too much when asking questions, so my apologies for my ramblings.
EDIT: Forgot to mention, they'll be starting at level 7, I'm allowing all the Core Races as well as numerous races from the Advanced Race Book, and Psionic Races (And classes). Everything will be PF, with no 3.5 or earlier being allowed.
I'm continuing my efforts in creating a campaign for my players. The ideas I have for the plot are sound, thanks to a few of you guys here on the forums.
Now, I'm starting to work on more of the specifics. My first goal is to come up with encounter ideas that can challenge a very damage-oriented group. I've DM'd for, and played with, these guys in the past. Very often they focus on damage over control (Or control through damage?), usually physical damage, and very often close range, if not necessarily melee. They also generally use in-combat healing and few buffs, though this last part may change due to the fact the player who usually plays the healer, and enjoys it, will no longer be joining us.
So, I'm looking for ways to make them use strategy besides positioning and teamwork. They're good at that.. they back each other up, position squishies properly, etc. But when they encounter things that they aren't quite used to, they generally just bash it until it dies, even if its inefficient.
For example, in my last campaign, the party consisted of:
A Half-Orc Barbarian
A Human Pistolero (Gunslinger Archetype)
A Human Rogue with a Greatsword
A Human Cleric Heal-Bot (A damned good one too)
A Dwarf Witch with a 15 ft Beard
The Barbarian was simple in that he generally charged and smashed. His rage powers were oriented around anti-caster roles, and he roleplayed the part well. He used a Scythe and Medium armor, so he was very durable and crit like a truck.
The Pistolero dual-wielded double barreled pistols (Using Weapon Cords to drop, reload, and swift-pick it back up) and was the main damage dealer of the party, even considering the rest of them. He hit hard, he hit often.
The Rogue was the barbarian's tag team buddy, and very much acted like a slightly-smarter barbarian. Very reckless, but hits like a truck. Also was very proficient at tripping and feinting. If anyone utilized control, it was this guy and his trip. He also once sneak attacked someone with a boat.
The Cleric spammed heals and channels mainly.. though he was a great roleplayer outside of combat.
The Witch.. almost exclusively used Fortune on his allies, Misfortune on his enemies, and Cackle to keep it up. He'd occasionally vomit spiders on people or choke them 80 ft up in the air with his beard while singing "I can show you the world!" But other than that, he buffed and debuffed. Since the campaign's ended, he's changed to playing more damage type characters in my friend's campaign, so I'm going to assume something similar here.
------------------
Some things they had trouble with when I did try and spin things on them were:
Once, I threw a gargoyle wizard at them, who focused mostly on area control spells or AoE offensive spells. This Gargoyle was modified in that it lost it's racial HD, however. Since it flew, and the only other person who could fly was the witch, I was hoping to see some kind of air combat, but instead, the Gunslinger, using pistols with only a 20 ft range increment, was the only one focusing on the wizard. The Wizard was flying ~50 feet up in the air, and had damage reduction. This meant that the gunslinger had to not only hit the AC with a -4 (plus dual wielding plus using both barrels) and only chipped away at the wizard. Once that proved to ineffective for 4 rounds, he started shooting the wizard's wings (I was allowing the Called Shots alternative rules), which slowed him down and knocked him down a few feet, but this continued the same until finally the gunslinger finished him off. The rest of the party had taken care of the rest of their enemies without too much of a hassle, except the barbarian surviving by the skin of his teeth using his 1/day Orc Ferocity. If he didn't have that, he'd have died due to unconciousness and Rage not faring too well together.
In that same session, the Rogue tried to go toe to toe, solo, against an ogre zombie and nearly got killed as well. He also (in an earlier session) ran straight into a kobold ambush, jumped over a barricade, and threw acid in the kobold leader's face. While funny, he was prone to doing reckless things that nearly got him killed.
I have yet to start this new campaign - so I'm not sure what exactly the players will be bringing onto the field. I have only vague ideas of what they're planning, though one has expressed fairly strong interest in a crossbow-fighter. Still, I'm assuming they'll focus on damage over control for the most part.
As for what I'm planning so far, it's going to start off with a good old fashioned dungeon crawl in a dwarven ruin, with one of my BBEG's deep inside, who's a master at summoning and creating golems. So while I don't want the entire dungeon to focus on this, outsiders (of any alignment) and constructs will be somewhat prevalent, at least deeper inside.
Any thoughts on how I can challenge them, without simply throwing things at them that are too high CR for their level, like I did in my last campaign? (They survived a CR 11 encounter at level 6, with only one guy nearly dying.)
Also, as a final note, I'm starting to think I type too much when asking questions, so my apologies for my ramblings.
EDIT: Forgot to mention, they'll be starting at level 7, I'm allowing all the Core Races as well as numerous races from the Advanced Race Book, and Psionic Races (And classes). Everything will be PF, with no 3.5 or earlier being allowed.