Versus

[Cranthis]

I'm going to give you guys two 3.5 classes, sometimes drastically different, sometimes very similar. I want to hear your opinions on who would win between the two, and why. This isn't any sort of contest, it is just a side by side comparison of classes.

Today's versus: Duskblade vs Hexblade.

Assume both are level 5 (this will not always be the case)

Use your own logic, and your own builds if you want, and explain which side you think wins.

Edit: This thread is for gathering general opinions, and is not intended to copy anything similar that may have been done already.

[eggs]

Are you asking which would win fighting the other, or would win when comparing the quality of job they do?

If the prior, in any case at all: whichever wins initiative.

[Cranthis]

are you asking which would win fighting the other, or would win when comparing the quality of job they do?

That is up to the individual poster. Its all about your perspective. Either way I would like to hear everyones' thoughts.

[Kane0]

I'd say both have strong opening capabilities at level 5, and each would be at a clear advantage if they won initiative, but overall i'd put my money on the Hexblade. His increased saves and mettle should keep him from the duskblades more nasty stuff long enough for his melee capability to pull him through, with a free action curse on top of that. I'd be a close thing though.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Too close to call with certainty, but if I were a betting man I'd put my money on the duskblade. He's just as capable a melee combatant, and he's got quite a few more spells at 5, and the ability to channel some into his melee attack for extra damage. Mettle and higher saves can help, but only if the duskblade targets a save to begin with, which is rather unlikely in this matchup.

[docnessuno]

I'd put my money on the duskblade. At level 5, quickened true strike + power attack + shocking grasp means it's almost guaranteed to one-shot the hexblade with a standard action.

[Cranthis]

Excellent, everyone, this is exactly what I want. Varied opinions :smallbiggrin:

[Cranthis]

I may have only gotten a few replies this time, but I think it successfully accomplished it's intended purpose. Thanks everyone!

I'm going to do this 3-5 times a week. This thread is still open for business of course, but look forward to the next Versus.

[eggs]

If we're talking straight-classed straight-out-of-the-handbook builds:

Duskblade is always a strong damage-dealer and is almost always effective in making fights end; Hexblade is a useful facilitator who allows allies to finish fights in parties with powerful save-or-X abilities, but then only several times per day.

At high levels, that changes a bit - Hexblade's level 3 and 4 spells are very strong, and work well in conjunction with the spooky ghost panther and hex, but daily uses are still a serious limitation.

In PVP or as an NPC, especially at high levels, Hexblade's daily uses are less a problem, and at high levels, the broader array of spell effects available can help it rival Duskblade. But for PCs, especially at low- to mid-levels, Duskblade is reliably useful for more groups (whereas Hexblade depends a bit on party composition), is useful with few game assumptions (where Hexblade has issues with prolonged workdays) and is consistently useful at all levels (where Hexblade has a long time building up to enough daily uses to expect to pose a better offense than a Warrior in all its daily fights).

Talking more common Hexblade- or Duskblade-using builds (ie. adding multiclassing and PrCs), the comparison is probably more accurately Hexblade/Arcanamach/AbjChamp or Hexblade/Knight of the Weave/AbjChamp v. Duskblade/Chameleon, Duskblade/AbjuChamp or Duskblade/Enlightened Fist, which dilutes the Hexblade's defining Curse power, but which brings the comparison much closer between the two.

[Cranthis]

I personally don't believe that you should go AbjChamp with Duskblade, unless you have some wizard levels. Most of there useful spells are not Abjuration, as well as not having the protection spells that make Abjchamp as good as it is.

[eggs]

I personally don't believe that you should go AbjChamp with Duskblade, unless you have some wizard levels. Most of there useful spells are not Abjuration, as well as not having the protection spells that make Abjchamp as good as it is.
It's not so much about Abjurant Champion being great as it is about Duskblade kind of ending at level 13.

Duskblade 15/AbjChamp 5 only loses one quickcast use, 1 point of Fortitude and a situational bonus to beat SR compared to Duskblade 20, and gains multiple free quickens on useful spells like Resist Energy and Dispelling Touch (CL's low, but it's still enough for many magic items), plus Arcane Boost for some defensive bonuses. It's not a huge gain, but it comes at a low price.

[Cranthis]

True. And I suppose it wouldn't hurt your feats to bad to take extra spell at 15 for greater mage armor.

[Thrawn183]

I'd say your average Duskblade is probably stronger with the same level of optimisation as they are easily built, especially at low levels, but that high level Hexblades have more flexibility. In addition, assuming no multiclassing, Hexblades can do some really cool stuff with debuffing their opponent's... well, everything when you take alternate class abilities and improved familiars into account.

In a party, a Duskblade works really well with a damage focused team, while a Hexblade works well on a debuff or save or lose/die kind of team.

Ultimately it probably comes down to whether or not your primary caster prefers to use fireballs or negative levels as to which is more useful.

Edit: I should mention I've used some of the suggestions from the guy who wrote the Hexblade class for fixing it for so long that I'd actually forgotten they aren't official. I'm gonna just go with Duskblade.

[Darius Kane]

Duskblade is T3, Hexblade is T4.

[limejuicepowder]

Yeah I'm going with the Duskblade.

Hexblades as written kind of suck: their curse ability isn't even that strong and it's insanely limited for uses per day. Mettle is good (but won't really help them here), familiar is good, and the dark companion ACF is good, but they start running in to feat problems to get all of that (obtain familiar, imp familiar, practiced spellcaster, power attack at a minimum).

Duskblades on the other hand can nova better then most, and the only feat they need is power attack. This means they have all kinds of room to pick up stuff like improve initiative.

True Strike + Power Attack virtually guarantees the hexblade will be dying in one hit. The hexblade just can't bring that kind of damage, meaning there's a much higher chance the hexblade won't win even if he goes first - which he has a lessor chance of getting in the first place.

My totally from-the-gut estimation? Duskblade wins 70% of the time.

[Cranthis]

Duskblade is T3, Hexblade is T4.

I'm going to have to put a rule about not just using tiers as an explanation on these.

[Cranthis]

Also! Versus #2 coming in a few minutes.