Demoralizing ooze?

[Uncle Pine]

G'day playgrounders!
I'm creating some monters for a future adventure. It'll be an ooze-based adventure, but to make things more interesting I'll use mainly id oozes and living spells.
Id ooze is a template in the Advanced Bestiary that basically lets an ooze use shields and weapons in lieu of making natural attacks. This means that an id ooze with a single slam attack can use a shield or a one-handed weapon, while one with two slam attacks can use both of them or a two-handed weapon. It also grants +6 to Dex, Con, Wis and Cha and an Intelligence score of 10 at CR +1. I prefer it over the sentry ooze template from Dungeonscape mainly because it allows oozes to use equipment.
There'll be two oozes' clan: one of them will be more melee-focused, with a half-red dragon id black pudding barbarian in charge, while the other will be less violent.
I don't have problem building oozes from the first clan, but I need a bit of help handling the second clan's chief: an id gelatinous cube bard. I was thinking of taking Martial Study (Devoted Spirit) to have Intimidate as a class-skill and make him a "demoralizer" (not sure about the term), but this thing still has a Charisma score of 7! Do you have any idea on how to handle it? I'm aiming at a CR 12 that won't squeeze in a single round against a mid-optimized party.

[Fitz10019]

It's an interesting topic, but it's more appropriate for the Homebrew Design forum (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=15).

That said, I would free associate along this line ooze => goo => ectoplasm => Ghostbusters, and then use the undead's supernatural attacks and abilities as a resource for inspiration and outright theft.

[Uncle Pine]

It's an interesting topic, but it's more appropriate for the Homebrew Design forum (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=15).

That said, I would free associate along this line ooze => goo => ectoplasm => Ghostbusters, and then use the undead's supernatural attacks and abilities as a resource for inspiration and outright theft.

Why the Homebrew forum? I'm not trying to design a new rule or create a brand new kind of monster, just wondering which ACFs/feats/whatever might be useful to a Huge bard with Cha 7.

Also, I just remembered that I am giving a monster class levels, so I can use the elite array. This brings the starting Cha to 11, which is still no good for a bard, but at least is in the double digits.

[Fitz10019]

I'm creating some [monsters] for a future adventure. It'll be an ooze-based adventure...
My bad. When I read this opening, I thought you needed more oozes than what currently exist.

[Flickerdart]

""Half-dragon" is an inherited template that can be added to any living, corporeal creature (referred to hereafter as the base creature)."

[Waddacku]

Why don't you put the 15 from the elite array into Cha instead?
Also, I suggest checking out the Sentry Ooze template from Dungeonscape. It only grants 2 Int, but +10 Wis and Cha (and +6 Dex). If you can get around the animal intelligence (more templates!), that should end up pretty nice.

Of course, you're the DM. You make the rules, you're not bound by them.

Looking over the Id Ooze template, it right off the bat seems better suited for what you want, anyway, though.
If you want to stick to the system as written, Id Gelatinous Cube is CR 4. Ooze adds another CR four each 4 HD, and the Cube goes Huge at 13 HD. It starts at 4 HD, so 9 HD more is +2 CR, then another +1 for the size increase.
That's CR 7 with a significant increase in durability and strength, and another +4 to intimidate for size.
I'd think Bard definitely qualifies as non-associated, so it's +1 CR per 2 levels (until Bard levels exceed your racial HD), so if you stick 10 levels of Bard in there you end up at CR 12. Hopefully.
Mind you, there's an odd little sentence in the Advancing by Hit Dice rules that say you don't stack the CR increase from advancing HD with the one from advancing class levels, but if that means to say the smaller of them juts doesn't count, then... Well, you can go pretty crazy, then.

Of course, what I just proposed would put it at 23 HD... Which is Epic territory, with maximum skill ranks of 26. Doing that, I don't think you'd need to worry about the Intimidate check being too low. The base 32 Con score and 13d10+10d6 HD ends up at uh... 359 HP. 15 BAB, and base saves of +7 Fort, +11 Ref and Will.
Yeah. That's kind of weird.

EDIT: Oops, forgot the Con increase from size. That's 405 HP.

[Uncle Pine]

Why don't you put the 15 from the elite array into Cha instead?

Because (unfortunately), 15 is the ability score before racial modifiers, and with an average racial Cha of 7, Id Gelatinous Cubes have a racial modifier of -4.


Also, I suggest checking out the Sentry Ooze template from Dungeonscape. It only grants 2 Int, but +10 Wis and Cha (and +6 Dex). If you can get around the animal intelligence (more templates!), that should end up pretty nice.

That's right. I might as well just try the Sentry Ooze template if I don't find anything more viable. Thank you!


Looking over the Id Ooze template, it right off the bat seems better suited for what you want, anyway, though.
If you want to stick to the system as written, Id Gelatinous Cube is CR 4. Ooze adds another CR four each 4 HD, and the Cube goes Huge at 13 HD. It starts at 4 HD, so 9 HD more is +2 CR, then another +1 for the size increase.
That's CR 7 with a significant increase in durability and strength, and another +4 to intimidate for size.
I'd think Bard definitely qualifies as non-associated, so it's +1 CR per 2 levels (until Bard levels exceed your racial HD), so if you stick 10 levels of Bard in there you end up at CR 12. Hopefully.
Mind you, there's an odd little sentence in the Advancing by Hit Dice rules that say you don't stack the CR increase from advancing HD with the one from advancing class levels, but if that means to say the smaller of them juts doesn't count, then... Well, you can go pretty crazy, then.

Of course, what I just proposed would put it at 23 HD... Which is Epic territory, with maximum skill ranks of 26. Doing that, I don't think you'd need to worry about the Intimidate check being too low. The base 32 Con score and 13d10+10d6 HD ends up at uh... 359 HP. 15 BAB, and base saves of +7 Fort, +11 Ref and Will.
Yeah. That's kind of weird.

EDIT: Oops, forgot the Con increase from size. That's 405 HP.

That's... unexpected, at the very least. It'd make a VERY though CR 12, though! :smallcool:

[Zubrowka74]

Will it have Perform (cubiste painting) ?

[Uncle Pine]

Will it have Perform (cubiste painting) ?

Perform (cubiste painting) doesn't exist. On the other hand, it'll have Craft (cubiste painting) for sure! As well as some sort of metallic (cubic) drum that won't melt in a couple of rounds :smallbiggrin:

[Axier]

Perform (cubiste painting) doesn't exist. On the other hand, it'll have Craft (cubiste painting) for sure! As well as some sort of metal (cubic) drum that won't melt in a couple of rounds :smallbiggrin:

lol, An Adamantine "Steel" Drum, a giant cube of fleash eating ooze playing Caribbean music!

[Waddacku]

Save vs Fascinate.

[Zubrowka74]

Blob Marley

[Uncle Pine]

Save vs Fascinate.

With a bonus like +40 on Intimidate and Imperious Command, it'll be more like "Save vs going crazy and scream like a groupie". :smallamused:


Blob Marley

Yeah! More ooze-puns! :smallbiggrin:


Looking over the Id Ooze template, it right off the bat seems better suited for what you want, anyway, though.
If you want to stick to the system as written, Id Gelatinous Cube is CR 4. Ooze adds another CR four each 4 HD, and the Cube goes Huge at 13 HD. It starts at 4 HD, so 9 HD more is +2 CR, then another +1 for the size increase.
That's CR 7 with a significant increase in durability and strength, and another +4 to intimidate for size.
I'd think Bard definitely qualifies as non-associated, so it's +1 CR per 2 levels (until Bard levels exceed your racial HD), so if you stick 10 levels of Bard in there you end up at CR 12. Hopefully.
Mind you, there's an odd little sentence in the Advancing by Hit Dice rules that say you don't stack the CR increase from advancing HD with the one from advancing class levels, but if that means to say the smaller of them juts doesn't count, then... Well, you can go pretty crazy, then.

Of course, what I just proposed would put it at 23 HD... Which is Epic territory, with maximum skill ranks of 26. Doing that, I don't think you'd need to worry about the Intimidate check being too low. The base 32 Con score and 13d10+10d6 HD ends up at uh... 359 HP. 15 BAB, and base saves of +7 Fort, +11 Ref and Will.
Yeah. That's kind of weird.

EDIT: Oops, forgot the Con increase from size. That's 405 HP.

You know? I might seriously try to go with this. It's actually a big meat ooze shield with massive hitpoints and an AC of 5 that can't speak and so will have lots of trouble casting bard spells. (Sidenote: does anyone know about bard spells without verbal component?)
On the other hand, everything hostile that enter in a 15-ft. radius from him goes crazy for 1 round and get blasted by his ooze mephit familiar. A very remarkable flying familiar with 200+ hitpoints. :smallcool:
I mean, it isn't actually more dangerous than a save-or-get-naked elder black pudding or a save-or-TPK abyssal greater basilisk, isn't it? :smallwink:

[TuggyNE]

It's actually a big meat ooze shield with massive hitpoints and an AC of 5 that can't speak and so will have lots of trouble casting bard spells. (Sidenote: does anyone know about bard spells without verbal component?)

There specifically aren't any, and bard spells specifically can't be silenced. Try getting Surrogate Spellcasting (Savage Species?) to make your odd squelching noises into verbal components.

[Uncle Pine]

There specifically aren't any, and bard spells specifically can't be silenced. Try getting Surrogate Spellcasting (Savage Species?) to make your odd squelching noises into verbal components.

Neat! Thank you, I forgot about that!

EDIT: Sigh... Blob Marley has a Wisdom score of 5 and can't take Surrogate Spellcasting! :smallfrown:

[Waddacku]

You could just use magic items, inherent bonuses (say he managed to use a Ring of Three Wishes or someone else did for his benefit, maybe an Efreet owed him a favor, whatever), or just add those points in anyway and/or void the prereq.

If you really want to enable Blob Marley to fulfill the prereqs on his own, in accordance with the rulebooks, then the ability increases from leveling are your friend.
Id Gelatinous Cube has -4 adjustments to Wis and Cha. This means if you put the 15 and 14 from the elite array into it he'll be at 11 and 10. He gets four ability increases, which puts him at 13 Wis and 12 Cha, qualifying him for Surrogate Spellcasting AND enabling him to cast Eagle's Splendor, which lets him access all other levels of Bard spells.
Don't forget he also gets one epic feat. If you add another HD (Ooze or Bard, both would essentially put him at CR 12½), he gets both another ability increase and a second epic feat.

There's a lot of epic feats (though pretty few Blob Marley actually qualifies for), but he could take Great Charisma twice while putting that one more point into Charisma as well, for a total of 15 Cha (and he only has 4th level spells anyway).
Other options for epic feats could be Epic Toughness for 30 HP per feat, Damage Reduction for DR 3/- per feat (not that interesting, really), or Fast Healing for fast healing 3 per feat (relevance very, very dependent on circumstances).

[Sgt. Cookie]

Neat! Thank you, I forgot about that!

EDIT: Sigh... Blob Marley has a Wisdom score of 5 and can't take Surrogate Spellcasting! :smallfrown:

How about Non-verbal spell? No prerequisites whatsoever. You can find it in the Planar Handbook.

[Uncle Pine]

How about Non-verbal spell? No prerequisites whatsoever. You can find it in the Planar Handbook.

GREAT! Thank you a lot! I wasn't aware of the existence of that feat. There's no need to boost Wisdom and make Blob Marley a philosopher then. :smallsmile:

Thank you all for helping! I hope that Blob Marley will do a good impression to my players. :smallwink:

[Waddacku]

Ooh, then all advances can go into Cha, making him doubtlessly the sexiest ooze in the world.

Unless you've got some high level Id Living Spells running around, anyway. Still.

Was a pleasure helping out, be sure to report back with whatever happens!

[Uncle Pine]

Ooh, then all advances can go into Cha, making him doubtlessly the sexiest ooze in the world.

Unless you've got some high level Id Living Spells running around, anyway. Still.

Was a pleasure helping out, be sure to report back with whatever happens!

I'll surely do that, even though it'll take a while because the party has to complete at least two or three adventures before meeting the amazing Blob Marley. :smallwink: