Sacred bonus to an ability score?

[Yaitanos]

So yeah, there is a bit of a debate between me and another player, and while I've already come up with an answer to it, I would like to know if there is such a thing as a sacred bonus to ability scores. If not, besides enhancement an inherent, what types of bonuses are there?

[mattie_p]

Yes, you can get a sacred bonus to an ability score. The first method that occurs to me is via animal devotion feat, Complete Champion, but there are many others.

The SRD lists most of the basic bonus types (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#modifierTypes).

[Yaitanos]

Yes, you can get a sacred bonus to an ability score. The first method that occurs to me is via animal devotion feat, Complete Champion, but there are many others.

And is there a list of the cost to make a magic item that gives such bonuses? Or perhaps an item that already has it?

[HunterOfJello]

And is there a list of the cost to make a magic item that gives such bonuses? Or perhaps an item that already has it?

It's pretty much an unspoken rule that all items that improve ability scores give enhancement bonuses. The only exception I can think of are the Tomes which give inherent bonuses.

The Rules Compendium lists Ability Score bonuses only in the entries for Enhancement and Inherent bonuses. It says that inherent bonuses to ability scores result specifically from "powerful magic" and that a creature is limited to a total inherent bonus of +5 to any ability score. (This pretty much covers the Tome wondrous items and Wish spamming.)

[sleepyphoenixx]

I think there was a rule somewhere for "uncommon" bonus types to ability scores being 2.5x the price of an
enhancement bonus, but i can't remember the source.
It's generally not a good idea to allow that as a DM anyway in my experience.

There is, of course, Sources of Bonuses to Ability Scores (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=auk6sjs20btq6u4bu43lurqun3&topic=176) if you're looking for those few extra points. :smallwink:

[Hirax]

Generally the best way to get bonuses to an ability score in the fashion you're looking for is the artificer spell item alteration, which changes the type of bonus an item gives. So you could make several +int items, and giver them each a separate type of bonus. However, the catch is that unless you can somehow convince your DM into allow a permanent version of the spell, which no sane DM would, then you're stuck casting it over and over again to maintain the different bonus types. I believe it forbids sacred bonuses, but you should be fine with alchemical, morale, competence, circumstance, enhancement, inherent, insight, luck, and probably a couple others I missed.

This is generally a task best lest to a cohort obtained via leadership or similar methods, note that it's a 4th level spells, so it's not something low level followers can do. Ideally you'll want several cohorts that can cast 5th level spells, so they can be applying the extend feat to each casting of item alteration (it lasts 10 minutes/level). Also note that I used the word spell repeatedly out of habit, but note that item alteration is of course an infusion, not a spell, since we're talking about an artificer. So you can't use wyrm wizard or similar to grab item alteration as a spell and add it to your spellbook. Unless your DM is crazy.

[Yaitanos]

Awesome, and thank you for your help. The issue in question is the old "is vow of poverty worth it?" To someone like me, who prefers to be flexible, and love questing for those rare and mythical magical items, I don't care for the rigidity of the feat and how it limits what your character can do. He however kept proclaiming that it is in fact superior to have an assortment of magic items, not with any good points mind you. His sole argument is that the bonuses given by the feat are better than anything magic items could give, and honestly the only thing the progression gives that could even support that in my mind is the +8 to an ability score. Which of course is instantly negated by stacking bonuses, by way of an enhancement item and a tome/manual.

Course then there was the whole thing with him claiming that while he couldn't own any magic items, he could 'borrow' if the situation called for it. Since I didn't actually have the book on hand I couldn't disprove this right away but will be politely correcting him next time I see him.

[Hirax]

As a caster there are several ways to get more than +8 enhancement bonuses. If you persist necrotic empowerment, for instance, you get a +8 enhancement bonus to int, wisdom, and dex, along with several other goodies. Pretty sure there's a persistable +8 enhancement bonus to charisma spell out there somewhere too, though there's also tons of spells that give different types of bonuses to charisma if you're going that route. At any rate, persisted necrotic empowerment alone blows the VoP bonuses out of the water. Here's an easy bake way to max out a wizard's int, for instance (let's say wiz5/incantatrix10/divine oracle3/loremaster1/mindbender1)

18
20 (+2, gray elf or other race)
25 (5 leveling bumps)
28 (venerable, physical ability scores made meaningless by shapechange)
32 (persisted greater visage of the deity, via arcane disciple (balance) or similar)
40 (necrotic empowerment)
45 (inherent bonus)
46 (be eaten and pooped out by the worm of Minauros)

[MesiDoomstalker]

As a caster there are several ways to get more than +8 enhancement bonuses. If you persist necrotic empowerment, for instance, you get a +8 enhancement bonus to int, wisdom, and dex, along with several other goodies. Pretty sure there's a persistable +8 enhancement bonus to charisma spell out there somewhere too, though there's also tons of spells that give different types of bonuses to charisma if you're going that route. At any rate, persisted necrotic empowerment alone blows the VoP bonuses out of the water. Here's an easy bake way to max out a wizard's int, for instance (let's say wiz5/incantatrix10/divine oracle3/loremaster1/mindbender1)

18
20 (+2, gray elf or other race)
25 (5 leveling bumps)
28 (venerable, physical ability scores made meaningless by shapechange)
32 (persisted greater visage of the deity, via arcane disciple (balance) or similar)
40 (necrotic empowerment)
45 (inherent bonus)
46 (be eaten and pooped out by the worm of Minauros)

I have no idea what this is, or why it gives you an Int boost for passing through its GI tract, but this made me laugh. Kudos chum.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Generally the best way to get bonuses to an ability score in the fashion you're looking for is the artificer spell item alteration, which changes the type of bonus an item gives. So you could make several +int items, and giver them each a separate type of bonus. However, the catch is that unless you can somehow convince your DM into allow a permanent version of the spell, which no sane DM would, then you're stuck casting it over and over again to maintain the different bonus types. I believe it forbids sacred bonuses, but you should be fine with alchemical, morale, competence, circumstance, enhancement, inherent, insight, luck, and probably a couple others I missed.

This is generally a task best lest to a cohort obtained via leadership or similar methods, note that it's a 4th level spells, so it's not something low level followers can do. Ideally you'll want several cohorts that can cast 5th level spells, so they can be applying the extend feat to each casting of item alteration (it lasts 10 minutes/level). Also note that I used the word spell repeatedly out of habit, but note that item alteration is of course an infusion, not a spell, since we're talking about an artificer. So you can't use wyrm wizard or similar to grab item alteration as a spell and add it to your spellbook. Unless your DM is crazy.

You forgot Dodge bonus (which stacks with itself as long as they come from different souces) :smalltongue:

[Maryring]

A dodge bonus to dexterity? :smallamused:

[Hylas]

I'd explain how I got a dodge bonus to INT, but you'd have to hit me with a question first.

[BobVosh]

I have no idea what this is, or why it gives you an Int boost for passing through its GI tract, but this made me laugh. Kudos chum.

If they are what I think they are, they are this demonic (possibly devil) worm that you have to make several saves to survive being eaten by that give bonuses to stats. I believe there is one for each stat.

We lost 3 party members to a con worm. Admittedly they got better.

According to a link I found, it is actually a bonus to your highest stat.

[GolemsVoice]

Completely unrelated question, but how does one get a dodga bonus to INT?

Dodgy logic?

[Dusk Eclipse]

There is an artificer infussion that changes the type of bonus an item gives for 10/mins per level. As far as I remember that infusion doesn't limit the type of bonus it can grant and since Dodge is a type of bonus, theoretically you could infuse your headband of intelligence +6 to give a dodge bonus instead of an enhancement one. Having said that I hope you have some Dodge bonus to AC and/oe reflex cause your DM will probably attack you with a book.

As for how you can fluff that, I leave it as an excercise to the reader/player.

[Hylas]

Completely unrelated question, but how does one get a dodga bonus to INT?

Dodgy logic?

You become a politician. Then you become better at dodging questions to your INT. :smalltongue:

Also my first post was meant to be a joke, but it apparently fell flat.

[mattie_p]

Also my first post was meant to be a joke, but it apparently fell flat.

No, I chuckled when I read it.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Get Leadership for a Fiend of Possession cohort, it can possess you and give you a +4 Profane bonus to every ability score.

[Mithril Leaf]

Get Leadership for a Fiend of Possession cohort, it can possess you and give you a +4 Profane bonus to every ability score.

Hmmm, I was about to correct you and say it was only one at a time, but you are indeed correct by RAW. It has no clause about only one bonus at a time.