Need help making a level 20 strongheart halfling

[dantiesilva]

Ok so I am joining a trisalt campaign and need some help. I know for a fact I want a strongheart halfling, and I already got the abilities scores down if needed later on. What I need help with is building it. My original Idea was Rogue/Ranger//Scout/// for a base and quite like the idea, extra damage lots of abilities. This character is being made to be a ranged fighter, for feats anything is allowed so I was thinking of burning 3 to get +4d6 to all ranged attacks, by getting a pp reserve of 2 from that feat that grants it. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[Keld Denar]

Have you thought about Scout4/Ranger16//Bard20, or possibly Bardic PrCs like Sublime Chord or Warchanter? You get some magic, you get some kickass music that you can easily amp up your damage, and your party's damage, and you get magic (yea, I said it twice).

There are some really cool things you can combine with music, like Slippers of Battledancing and Snowflake Wardance for some truely frightening numbers, damage-wise.

Thoughts?

[dantiesilva]

Should have said this sooner, the less magic the better. Yes I know by doing that it makes you weaker. I am going for flavor. Hawk eye almost, but because trisalt has more power behind him. My main problem is most archer PrCs require you to be an elf so I was looking in to master thrower, Invisible blade, and Halfling paragon. Then at level 4 of the other builds going into the halfling throwing guy from RoW. My problem is though he is throwing daggers left and right he is not shotting arrows which have a much large range. I am not sure if the DM would allow the PrC's that are race only to be open to anyone but if that will help I can ask.

[RFLS]

Hm. Well, I'm going to assume 3.5, because if it's Pathfinder or Pathfinder allowable, that changes my recommendations pretty drastically.

If you're going archer, I would recommend NOT taking scout. Scout's bonus damage only works if you're moving, and archery only works well if you're making full attacks.

I would also not recommend taking rogue, but not to the extent of actively recommending against it. The rogue's sneak attack requires that the opponent be both flat footed and within 30 feet (that range also applies to Scout; another strike against it).

Those things being said, you do need to specify what kind of archer you're after.

Assuming a mid-distance archer (25 to 100-ish feet), you're going to want a BOATLOAD of feats. Given that it's tristalt, I have no qualms recommending fighter for this. This also covers your full BAB and your maxed Fort save.

Ranger is, of course, a solid choice as well. Nice bonuses all around, fun toys, etcetera.

If spellcasting is on the table and it's something you'd be willing to consider, I would highly recommend Cleric. They make excellent archers, from what I've heard. I'm not sure how to build one, but I'm sure someone more familiar with them can help you if you decide to go that route.

Barbarian, also, could be a very solid choice, especially if you take the variant that gives you Dex and Strength instead of Con and Strength (I really hope that's a thing and I'm not just crazy). Be sure before you do this that you can Rage and use a bow at the same time. I couldn't find any RAW saying you couldn't, but fluff wise it doesn't seem to fit.

Rogue does work for certain builds, but you have to be capable of providing damage from another source if your SA doesn't proc, and you have to be willing to get within 30 foot ranger. I don't much recommend this as a general rule of thumb for archers.

Psionic Warrior is definitely an option, but I do not know how it performs and can't make a recommendation either direction. All I know is that it's a solid T3 class.

If Tome of Battle AND hombrew are on the table, there are some excellent homebrewed disciplines for archery. I won't go too far into that for now, though.

Finally, if Pathfinder is on the table, the Zen Archer Monk is just astounding, as are many of the feats Pathfinder has for archers. If you can, you absolutely should get your hands on either or both of those.

After that, we're getting into Prestige Classes, and I'd need a better idea of the kind of character you're playing before I can start recommending things (although, if memory serves, there are very few good archery PrCs).

[dantiesilva]

Ok talked to DM, he is being pretty helpful and allowing any race for PrCs so for example you do not need to be an elf to be an arcane archer. Keeping that in mind, magic to a certain extent is allowable for the build, I just do not want it to rely on the magic to stay alive. There is also a feat I read somewhere where that increase your range to 60ft. For your sneak attack making rogue and scout much more friendly. Hit and run tactics.

As for the full attack problem, well that is why we have feats. Many shot allows you to shot two at once, and with master thrower I can hit two targets with one attack. As for cleric...On the fence about because these will be my gorrila fighters. They are part of a larger army. The fighter class, as far as I am aware progresses the same as psionic warrior so I would go with that if anything and drop the cleric idea.

As for Barbarian all i can see a barbarian doing with a bow in a rage is using it to smash peoples heads in like a club, interesting idea though. Thank you for the help so far. I hope the ideas keep coming.

[Randomguy]

What exactly does ranger add here that fighter wouldn't give you? You get more skill points from rogue, so your ranger skill points don't really matter, and you get a good reflex save from rogue too.
Unless you want an animal companion then fighter might be a better choice, although it would be best to prestige out soon in either case.

I would also recommend barbarian with Whirling frenzy as another possible alternative, or, if you don't like frenzy/rage then there's an ACF that trades out rage for the ranger archery bonus feats.

Scout is decent for archery builds if you have a way to full attack while moving. There are a few ways to do this:
1. Help from a wizard with floating disk who moves you while you stay still on the disk and fire.
2. Magic Carpet moves while you shoot.
3. Use a mount and a prestige class (both Wild Plains Outrider and Halfling Outrider grant the ability to full attack on a mount). In this case, Ranger would probably be preferable over Fighter or barbarian, but Druid and the Fey Bard ACF would both get you an even better mount.
4. Use Greater Manyshot.

[RFLS]

Ok talked to DM, he is being pretty helpful and allowing any race for PrCs so for example you do not need to be an elf to be an arcane archer.

That's pretty cool of him; not many DMs will do that. I'll keep that in mind when making PrC recommendations.


There is also a feat I read somewhere where that increase your range to 60ft. For your sneak attack making rogue and scout much more friendly. Hit and run tactics.

I'm not aware of such a feat, but that certainly doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If you can get your hands on it, that would make rogue a much better option. I still recommend not taking scout; see below.


As for the full attack problem, well that is why we have feats. Many shot allows you to shot two at once, and with master thrower I can hit two targets with one attack.

If you get more than one attack per round because your base attack bonus is high enough, because you fight with two weapons or a double weapon or for some special reason you must use a full-round action to get your additional attacks.

These two bits of text are relevant to each other. Rapid Shot, Many Shot, or any other option for extra attacks is automatically a full round action.

For the record, I think that particular bit of the rules is completely stupid. It singlehandedly destroys the monk class (well, it has help, I guess) and makes TWFers and Archers MUCH harder to build well.


As for cleric...On the fence about because these will be my gorrila fighters.

Because it bothers me- you meant guerilla. Feel free to ignore this. I'm nit-picky.


They are part of a larger army. The fighter class, as far as I am aware progresses the same as psionic warrior so I would go with that if anything and drop the cleric idea.

If I remember correctly, Psionic Warrior gets a bonus feat every third level instead of every other, and has only 3/4s BAB. That being said, the psionics it has access to stand mundane warriors in good stead. I'm not sure how well they fare as archers; I'll read up and get back to this bit.


As for Barbarian all i can see a barbarian doing with a bow in a rage is using it to smash peoples heads in like a club, interesting idea though. Thank you for the help so far. I hope the ideas keep coming.

Again, I would check that rage and archery are compatible. I still can't find anything that says that they're not; if they are, this would be a good choice.

[TuggyNE]

These two bits of text are relevant to each other. Rapid Shot, Many Shot, or any other option for extra attacks is automatically a full round action.

Manyshot is a standard action, because it says it is.
As a standard action, you may fire two arrows at a single opponent within 30 feet.

It's therefore practical to move and manyshot; some people combine that with Scout to get their skirmish.

[RFLS]

Manyshot is a standard action, because it says it is.

It's therefore practical to move and manyshot; some people combine that with Scout to get their skirmish.

I'll be damned, so it is. That's useful to know; I'd always skimmed over that for some reason. However, I stand by what I said- in general, you want to be making full attacks as an archer, and, in general, you don't get that option while moving.

[HunterOfJello]

Monk 1/Psychic Rogue 19//Ranger X/ScoutX (Swift Hunter 20)//Factotum 20


No real spellcasting, only SLAs from Factotum and Psionics from Psychic Rogue

Swift Hunter + Rogue will give you tons of damage as long as you move 10ft per round. Monk 1 gets you access to the Monk Training Dummy which lets you do 10ft steps instead of 5ft steps.

Factotum gives you a freak load of actions in any combat.

[dantiesilva]

Wow ok lots of replies. I will start on the last because it is the one I understand the least, and well it is at the top when I am writing this. Psychic Rogue 19, never heard of it before, is it an ACF? Also the same with Monk Training Dummy, sadly never heard of it as well.

If you take a full attack you can not shot and then roll a hide check to gain concealment. Without moving they automatically know where you are, another stupid rule in the game, after all if you are hit by a sniper in real life you do not soddenly know where they are, you only know the direction most of the time, and thats if you are good.

As for the barbarian part, it is more a fluff reason. As I said I can not see a barbarian doing anything with a bow besides smashing. Not saying that is what it only does, just what you take from the vikings of our era. They didn't use many ranged weapons for that exact reason.

Ok now for psionic warrior. The best things I am seeing so far are.
Burst
Catfall
Chamelon
Distract
Elf sight
Animal affinity
Dissolving weapon (once the arrow hits use this and say bye bye to whatever body part you hit.
Sustenance
Ubiquitious vision
Escape detection

Only went to third manifest power because do not know how far I would get.