Wild Soul, Under Valued, or Under Powered

[silverwolfer]

So looking at the Wild Soul PRc from Complete Mage and looking it over bit by bit



Pros
---------------
--> Easy Entry, only requiring easy knolwedge skill levels + roleplay
-> Good and Bad Side for roleplay
-> Alternative summoning list that is 3 free uses per day
-> Benefits for resisting sleep, Faster Land speed, resists to Enchant Magic
-> Increase DC for illusion and enchantment magic
-> Some very nice Spontanous Casting spells , ala
remove fear lesser confusion
Tasha's hideous laughter detect thoughts
invisibility sphere poison
break enchantment bestow curse
baleful polymorph endless slumber*
true seeing mass suggestion
prismatic spray waves of exhaustion
sympathy horrid wilting
time stop wail of the banshee


Cons
----------------------------------------------
-> Lose a learned spell level
--> Most abilities only last, while summoned creature is around.



Highlights of the Summon List ( Incomplete)

Good Side
Pegasus --> Flying Mount
Unicorn ---> Mini Cleric
Pixie---> Stealth + Some nice SLA's could make a good invisible turrent to pelt others why you hide under a rock.
BearHound----> Trip + Anti Stealth stats, make a decent tank and forward scout.

Evil side

Joystealer ----> Good anti SLA, Ghost affects,Intresting scout option
Will o Wisp---> possible non magic invisibility , Anti Controller Caster, Ruin Enemy caster focus

[Amnestic]

While all Tier lists need to be taken with something of a grain of salt, Zeal's PrC list (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107618) has Wild Soul as a +1, which falls under "PrCs [that] generally improve their entry classes substantially, without radically affecting game balance".

Given that and your list of Pros vs. Cons, I can't imagine it being classified as 'underpowered' unless you're putting it up against the likes of Planar Shepherd, Dweomerkeeper and Incantatrix.

[silverwolfer]

Was more a catchy title than a comparative study.


I think it is just rather unknown then anything.

[darksolitaire]

Some class benefits are only active when there are Seelie on the field, so to reap most from the class you'll rely heavily on summoning. It also boosts illusion and enchantment, so it's kind of situational. There's word on the street that summoning outsiders is better then summoning faeries.

Spontaneous spells are good, but I doubt wizard has any problem filling his slots with usable spells he wouldn't rather cast. Sorcerer, on the other hand, falls second spell level behind prepared casters. I think this class could be best used to give Beguiler/Warmage/Dread Necromancer more spells to their list, but they need to dip for a long time to reap decent number of spells and chassis of Wild Soul itself is downgrade for them.

I don't have strong feelings about this prestige class, it's not bad but I don't feel like there's reason to play it unless it's fey-themed campaign.

[silverwolfer]

Hmm good point on that one, I forgot the conditional .


Overall, I find it a interesting blend for Enchanter/Summoner builds.

[Grim Reader]

Basically, it is split in a poor way: The main draw is the added spells. They are really good for a limited-list caster, such as a Sorcerer, Beguiler, Warmage, etc.

All of which are really, really hurt by falling another caster level behind. The Wizard, who can manage with a lost caster level, has no real need for the added spells.

If you want extra spells enough to lose a caster level, there are PrCs out there that are simply much better, such as Sand Shaper. And there are PrCs out there that add spells without losing a level, such as Fiend-Blooded or MotAO.

[eggs]

I like the class a lot.

It's a very well-balanced alternative to straightclassing an arcane caster (with the exception of wizard), and it has multiple directions of advancement - both are really nifty.

But that balance is probably the main reason it doesn't come up very often. It's a genuine tradeoff for a class like Dread Necro or Beguiler, but it competes for levels with classes that are straight gains, so it's not the best suggestion for someone looking for advice to make a stronger character.

[Answerer]

It's a genuine tradeoff for a class like Dread Necro or Beguiler
Except it's not, really. You pretty clearly lose more than you gain, unless you are already level 18. Being a spell level behind, even half the time, is not worth it. Especially when Dread Necromancer has actual good class features that he's losing.

[eggs]

I don't completely agree with that.

The one ability that really smarts the Dread Necromancer to lose past level 8 is Advanced Learning, which Seelie Spontaneous Spells more than compensate (9 new spells known instead of 3; at least 4 of which are genuinely useful as more than just filler).

The caster level hurts - especially for the 4-5 levels it puts the Wild Soul a spell level behind normal DN, but Summon Seelie Ally does increase the breadth of its abilities, giving intelligent minions to boss around, instead of DN's default mindless mooks.

Wild Soul doesn't give something for nothing, but the DN 8/WS 6 with True Seeing, Baleful Polymorph, Invisibility and crazy-hide bonused scout summons isn't too gimped compared to the DN 14 with Greater Harm and further rehashes of Save-or-Die; and the level 19 Dread with Time Stop instead of a touch-range save-permitting Enervation effect isn't missing out on very much at all.

I don't think Wild Soul is better than DN, and it does tend to be weaker, but because most of 3e's PrCs which either fall into "something for nothing" or "no way in hell" camps, a PrC that gives something, costs something and raises an actual question on whether its levels are worthwhile is much better balance than the norm.

[Answerer]

The one ability that really smarts the Dread Necromancer to lose past level 8 is Advanced Learning, which Seelie Spontaneous Spells more than compensate (9 new spells known instead of 3; at least 4 of which are genuinely useful as more than just filler).
You're ignoring improvements to one's Rebuke level. I don't really like minion masters and therefore haven't really looked into it, but I was under the impression that Rebuke Undead/Undead Mastery was a major source of Dread Necromancer power. I certainly don't see any particular reason for breaking at 8 specifically if you're not going to keep your Rebuke level up.


I don't think Wild Soul is better than DN, and it does tend to be weaker, but because most of 3e's PrCs which either fall into "something for nothing" or "no way in hell" camps, a PrC that gives something, costs something and raises an actual question on whether its levels are worthwhile is much better balance than the norm.
I do agree with this, in that it's much closer to balanced than the norm. I think what it gives isn't quite enough for what it loses, though.

Though it does tend to suffer since it's Fey-themed and the Fey-themed magics (illusion and enchantment) tend to get shut down so much, especially at higher levels. If you could use those more reliably at the levels this takes place...

Oh, and the concept of a Dread Necromancer/Wild Souls is awesome.

[Psyren]

No strong opinion here. I do like that there is a fey-themed PrC as 3.5 is starving for such, but I also agree that it doesn't give you a whole lot for what you give up. The new summons aren't particularly strong and the new spells are pretty meh/bad until very late levels.

That entry requirement seems like a pain as well.