Church of Asmodeus

[Down Comforter]

I'm currently running a summoner dedicated to Asmodeus in a Rise of the Runelords game, who's goal is to encourage the worship of Asmodeus in the region. He's done this primarily through getting on the good side of everyone and slowly converting people once he is buddy-buddy with them.

This leads to my issue. What would be the best way to pursue the subtle development of a church of Asmodeus without getting stabbed in the face by any local paladins?

[Lord_Gareth]

I'm currently running a summoner dedicated to Asmodeus in a Rise of the Runelords game, who's goal is to encourage the worship of Asmodeus in the region. He's done this primarily through getting on the good side of everyone and slowly converting people once he is buddy-buddy with them.

This leads to my issue. What would be the best way to pursue the subtle development of a church of Asmodeus without getting stabbed in the face by any local paladins?

Track down the paladins (they're public figures) and then have them assassinated.

[Down Comforter]

That kind of skips the "subtle" bit I'm going for. I'd rather not have the church those paladins are representing come to investigate. At least, not until it's too late.

[Lord_Gareth]

That kind of skips the "subtle" bit I'm going for. I'd rather not have the church those paladins are representing come to investigate. At least, not until it's too late.

Hrm. Could you reasonably fake orders for them to investigate something? Or, even better, uncover news of an actual disaster or emergency you have nothing to do with and raise a call to arms for the paladins to go help?

[Kelb_Panthera]

Exceedingly important question: the church(s) sponsoring these paladins; lead by high level clerics
y/n?

If no, then a campaign of political intrigue might be appropriate. You convert the higher ranking members of those churches and strip the paladins of support while simultaneously seeding disinformation and red-herrings for them to follow as you have them quietly eliminated one by one.

In any case, misinformation and disinformation are your friends. Send those do-gooders on one wild goose chase after another so that by the time any of them catch wind of you, it's too late because you've already got the whole city under your thumb. Then you just have them whacked gangland style.

[LibraryOgre]

If possible, wrap yourself in a mantle of law, and go the "mystery religion" route. The mantle of law... some sort of legal protection... is essential, since it turns paladins away from "Stab in the face" mode and into "investigate the evil cult" mode

Start with a basic, socially acceptable, premise. "Asmodeus is a deity who will forgive all Sin", which fits in with his portfolio. Get some degree of legal protection, and encourage people to come and confess their sins to Asmodeus. Let them let the bile out, all the hatred and fear and lust and petty theft. Let them relieve themselves of it, and offer them some platitudes about Asmodeus understanding sin, and that he doesn't think less of them because of their sin. Don't forgive them for their actions, but forgive them for sinning. Give Asmodeus drips and drabs of sin at first.

Meanwhile, while forgiving, and even accepting sin, you're winnowing the wheat from the chaff. Who are the really creative sinners? Who are the ones who not only sin often, but sin WELL, who do things that others can't quite detect, or do things no one else would confess to? Go to their houses. Confront them. Draw them into private conversations on the nature and inevitability of sin.

Then, you recruit them for your inner circle. Urge them towards subtle sinning. Not ripping off the congregation or bathing in the blood of virgins, but the many subtle corruptions that will help draw more people into the TRUE worship of Asmodeus.

By wrapping yourself in law, you insulate from the paladins... not forever, but enough to feed Asmodeus what he wants. At some point, the entire scheme will fall... but if you build it well and build it right, you will feed many to Him first, and will have moved on.

[Ravens_cry]

Play up the "I Am The Law!" aspect.
Promoting and enforcing public order, going after criminals, ensuring safety of those under its protection though mostly fair (but foul if necessary) means, could certainly be a leverage.
People like, people need, security. If the good aligned faiths aren't providing that, well, that is where you step in.
If one must make a little room, well, that's OK too.

[Kane0]

Have the church appear good and respectable.

Asmodeus (at least in 3.5, i'm guessing he's not much different in PF) should be good at deception, and his followers good at slowly roping in people from other faiths. In terms of what to preach i have no idea, but you could easily treat the church more like an enterprise organisation offering contracts and such. Those that are of more faith than others can receive and give better 'bargains'.

Paladins and many other factions might well see this as a business more than a religion, and thus less face-stabbing is likely to occur.

[Down Comforter]

I've been working towards forming a militia to deal with the local goblins and getting in good with business owners and the sheriff. What would be a good way to appeal to followers of other "good religions"? It's easy enough to have my followers be criminals, but to have it thrive I need respected individuals and possibly even clergy to join the ranks. How would I appeal to them? Would it even be worthwhile?

[Ravens_cry]

I've been working towards forming a militia to deal with the local goblins and getting in good with business owners and the sheriff. What would be a good way to appeal to followers of other "good religions"? It's easy enough to have my followers be criminals, but to have it thrive I need respected individuals and possibly even clergy to join the ranks. How would I appeal to them? Would it even be worthwhile?
Go for the more lawful good people, the people interested in public order and security.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I've been working towards forming a militia to deal with the local goblins and getting in good with business owners and the sheriff. What would be a good way to appeal to followers of other "good religions"? It's easy enough to have my followers be criminals, but to have it thrive I need respected individuals and possibly even clergy to join the ranks. How would I appeal to them? Would it even be worthwhile?

The trick, you see, is to find where their faith has common ground with what you're preaching. Then you've just got to shake their current faith, preferably with something highlighting the difference.

Though to be frank, it's exceedingly difficult to convert a cleric. High wisdom, rather notable ties to the faith, it's just not worth it if you can work around them. The best way to deal with clerics is to turn their flock against them and get them driven out of town, preferably without them realizing that's what you're doing.

You've gotta loosen the mark's purse strings before you can swipe any coin, savvy?

[Kane0]

You've gotta loosen the mark's purse strings before you can swipe any coin, savvy?

You got it blood, thanks for the dark. That berk wont know what bobbed him. I might even spare you a little jink to get yourself bubbed if I can give it the laugh.

:smallamused: Dont mind me, just practicing my planar cant for an upcoming campaign.

[LibraryOgre]

You got it blood, thanks for the dark. That berk wont know what bobbed him. I might even spare you a little jink to get yourself bubbed if I can give it the laugh.

:smallamused: Dont mind me, just practicing my planar cant for an upcoming campaign.

Quit rattlin' yer bonebox, ye sod, an' let the cutters talk. ;-)

[Slipperychicken]

In a war or other crisis, claim the conventional (Good aligned) dieties have forsaken the Material Plane dwellers. Who better to protect your family than the best general in the multiverse, who can fight the literally infinite hordes of demons with only a finite number of Devils? Who better to restore order than the embodiment of Law and planning?

Asmodeus is the true guardian of all things good and just. The other "Gods" are jealous of his honored position, and irresponsibly spread lies and rumors for their own ends. He is the ever-vigilant Watchman, who defends the world against the demonic hordes!

Becoming a Devil is the ultimate blessing of Asmodeus. It means you can help stave off the Abyss by fighting the Blood War. Enlist Today! Buy Blood War Bonds!

Only Asmodeus can help you achieve spiritual fulfillment through a combination of your own diabolical urges, and the satanic rites performed by your local Hell Cult.


[Insert poster of Asmodeus sternly pointing at the reader]
Asmodeus wants YOU to fight the Blood War. Enlist your soul today at the nearest recruitment office.

[Anderlith]

it's simple... kill the batman

er uh, Convert the local paladin :D

[North_Ranger]

If we're talking about Pathfinder, take a look at how the empire of Cheliax did it: overwhelming power derived from diabolical contracts, offering safety and protection and peace - just as long as you don't question the power of the regime. You don't go around killing puppies and twirling your moustache while laughing maniacally; you give the people safety and prosperity at the price of their freedom. When people are scared and hungry, they are more prone to accept such a price (and any scapegoats you offer) more readily.

I could draw parallels between this and how certain historical tyrannies, dictatorships and such have started in the past, but that's against the forum rules. I will, however, recommend taking a look at the history books, and see for yourself what kind of deals with the devil people have been willing to make when times are tough.

If your character has the power to summon devils, start making small pacts that keep the community safe from outside threats. Persuade higher-ups to do things your way, hire thugs to harass opposition. Put ranks in Perform (Oratory) or hire bards to sing songs that praise you and vilify your enemies. Off the record have your thugs commit more villainous things (murder, arson, desecration of temples, assault, blackmail etc.) done to your enemies, but publicly state you do not support but understand such "impromptu acts of revenge by the common people".

In short, appear as the good guy and the savior while constantly undermining and harassing the people who dare oppose you. In Pathfinder, you can easily do this by publicly downplaying the diabolical aspect of Asmodeus (as he is first and foremost a god in his own right, not just an ascended devil) and focus on his more socially acceptable aspects: He is the god of contracts and agreements, thus upholding civic order. He was the one who locked up Rovagug the Rough Beast and still maintains his vigil over the monster god's prison, thus protecting the world from chaos and destruction. He does not demand, but offer a fair chance for all who have the courage to deal with him; you scratch his back, he scratches yours. All this mumbo-jumbo by the paladins about how eeeeeeeeevil he is... that's just propaganda offered by people too scared to make their own decisions, hiding behind the skirts of their oppressive and over-demanding gods.

[Slipperychicken]

1. Get Freedom of Religion.

2. Say the Paladins aren't respecting your religious freedoms.

3. Paladins must respect the law, so they can't mess with you.

4. ???

5. PROFIT!

[Kelb_Panthera]

1. Get Freedom of Religion.

2. Say the Paladins aren't respecting your religious freedoms.

3. Paladins must respect the law, so they can't mess with you.

4. ???

5. PROFIT!

Good's supposed to trump Law for paladins. If obeying the law of a legitimate authority will allow evil to grow, the paladin's supposed to make the difficult choice to disregard that law and then take the legal punishment for doing so after the threat of evil is crushed.

Btw, the OP is kinda looking for that number 4 that you've left blank. :smalltongue:

[Falconer]

The road to Hell is paved with good intentions, yeah? I don't see any reason why your would-be church has to call Asmodeus by his proper name, so long as he's the one who benefits in the end. Give it the guise of a proper-if-idiosyncratic religion dedicated to some minor outsider, and just slowly grow in numbers and influence until you can afford to drop the pretense and take control of the region as a straight-up Church of Asmodeus.

Also, a fantastic bit of homebrew I'd recommend: The Dark Saint (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186362) prestige class.

[Down Comforter]

Thank for the advice, folks. Taking over Varisia for Asmodeus' glory will be all the more possible thanks to your sage advice :smallbiggrin: