LGBTAI+ LGBTAitP #28: Come Taste the Rainbow! [Archive]

Absol197

2012-10-25, 07:07 AM

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the thread for the discussion, celebration and support of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Asexual, Allied, and Queer individuals, and anyone else who fits into the alphabet soup somewhere! Maybe since I'm making this thread, I'll remember to update the link in my signature*!
* Not likely...
Here's the in-thread rules!

No adult sexual content. It's against site rules;
Let's keep things as A-political as possible;
Similarly, try to leave religion out of it;
NO discussing if LGBTAetc. is "good" or "right" for the above reasons, mostly;
Let's try and keep the in-thread flirting and horseplay to a reasonable level; while all us old hands are a big family, it can make it difficult for the people who are new and have important things to discuss to break in;
Everyone is welcome. L, G, B,T, A, Q, A, N, V, P, R, Q, Ω, ♅, everyone. As long as they behave themselves.

If you have a question or two about LGBTA+, you can ask it here! You can ask for advice and support in here.

In addition, many members are willing to give private advice one on one, either through email or PM. The best ways to do this are initiating the PM, or asking for PM help in thread.

Previous threads, because archives are important.

LGBT people in the playground (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62225)

LGBT people in the playground - part II (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86066)

LGBTitp - part III (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5663140#post5663140)

LGBTitp 4: We are a family? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129235)

LGBTitp - Part Five (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143424)

LGBTitp - Part Six (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147832)

LGBTitp - Part Seven (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157312)

LGBTitp - Part Eight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167395)

LGBTitp - Part Nine (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172747)

LGBTAitp - Part Ten (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177253)

LGBTAitp - Part Eleven (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181683)

LGBTAitp - Part Twelve (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10335967#)

LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192714)

LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200329)

LGBTAitp - Part Fifteen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207987)

LGBTAitp - Part Sixteen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11820872#)

LGBTAitp - Part Seventeen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219966)

LGBTAitp - Part Eighteen! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223792)

LGBTAitp - Part Nineteen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227182)

LGBTAitp - Part Twenty - Critical Hit! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12613347)

LGBTAitp - Part Twenty-One - BLACKJACK! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233833)

LGBTAitP Part 22: The Best There Is (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236828)

LGBTAitP Part 23: Et tu, ~Bianca? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239610)

LGBTAitP: Alphabet Soup-with 24 different Vitamins! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13243754)

LGBTAitP part 25: Doing Away With Subtitles (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=249030)

LGBTAitP 26: No Time For Snappy Titles (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253352)

LGBTAitP 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256951)

And the community's previously posted list of Thousand&Wordster Dictionary of Commonly Used LGBTAitP Words and Phrases, originally scribed by AThousandWords (now Qaera) and added to thereafter.
Lagerbeta: A fine brewski to be drunk by queers and allies.
LGBT: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans~
Trans~: Transsexual and Transgender
LGBTA: LGBT+Asexual/Allies
QUILTBAG:Q - Queer and Questioning
U - Unidentified
I - Intersex
L - Lesbian
T - Transgender, Transexual
B - Bisexual
A - Asexual
G - Gay, Genderqueer

Allies: Straight people that support equality for sexuality and gender minorities.
MtF: Male-to-Female: A woman born with male nibblies, who may or may not be seeking HRT and/or SRS. (AKA: trans woman)
FtM: Female-to-Male: A man born with female nibblies, who may or may not be seeking HRT and/or SRS. (AKA: trans man)
GQ: Genderqueer.
CS: Cis-sexual: sex and gender match (a male with male nibblies, a female with female nibblies.
TS: Transsexual: Sex and gender disparity.
HRT: Hormone replacement therapy. MtF's take more progestrogens and oestrogens and FtM's take more testosterone (I think?)
SRS: Sex Reassignment Surgery: Surgery to replace/transform a vagina into a penis, or vice versa depending on direction. Mastectomies or plastic surgery may be used on breasts.
FFS: Facial Feminization Surgery: Plastic surgery to reduce chin/nose/cheekbones. Not very common.

Man: A cisman or transman. Male.
Woman: A ciswoman or transwoman. Female.
Androgyne: Gender Identity with male and female aspects.
Genderfluid: Someone who fluctuates between male and female.
Agendered: Someone who feels neither male nor female.
Third-gendered: Someone who fits in a local society's third gender, usually male performing female tasks, occasionally vice versa.
Masculine: Something generally associated with men.
Feminine: Something generally associated with women.

Lesbian: A woman who is attracted to women.
Gay: A man who is attracted to men.
Homosexual: A person who is attracted to members of their gender.
Heterosexual: A person who is attracted to members of the opposite gender.
Bisexual: A person who is attracted to both male and female people.
Pansexual: A person who is attracted to people regardless of gender.
Asexual: A person who does not feel any/some sexual attraction.
Demisexual: A person who is only sexually attracted to someone(s) they have formed an intense emotional relationship with.
Androsexual: A person (of any gender identity) who is sexually attracted to the male-bodied form.
Gynosexual: A person (of any gender identity) who is sexually attracted to the female-bodied form
Polyamorous: A person who is interested in a relationship with more than one person.
Radosexual: A person who is only attracted to rad people.
Pomosexual: A person who avoids SO labels.

Sexual Orientation: How one identifies who they are attracted to. (SO)
Gender Identity: How one feels inside society's idea of "man, woman, or other". (GI)
Gender Expression: How one expresses their GI to society. (GE)
Significant Other(s): Person you are in a relationship with. (SO)

Okay everybody, have fun!

~Phoenix~

Socratov

2012-10-25, 07:16 AM

Wow, that was quick.

Now I see the Op again, I have always wondered about these:

Ω, ♅

anyone care to explain?

Lentrax

2012-10-25, 07:50 AM

But I don't like skittles.

I prefer starburst.

:smallwink::smallbiggrin:

Absol197

2012-10-25, 08:05 AM

But I don't like skittles.

I prefer starburst.

:smallwink::smallbiggrin:

Who said I was talking about candy? :smallwink:

Anywho, sorry, Socratov: I have no idea what those mean. I was actually wondering about them, myself. Maybe some other nice person will wander by and enlighten us?

~Phoenix~

Kindablue

2012-10-25, 08:07 AM

That thread title... (http://youtube.com/watch?v=u2ALsvU50wQ)

Wow, that was quick.

Now I see the Op again, I have always wondered about these:

Ω, ♅

anyone care to explain?

It means the same as "OMGBBQ."

Astrella

2012-10-25, 08:24 AM

Pretty sure they're symbols for certain gender identities?

Socratov

2012-10-25, 08:32 AM

Pretty sure they're symbols for certain gender identities?

That I had assumed (good to know my assumption was correct here) but the question is what gender identity they represent. Purely out of curiosity

Astrella

2012-10-25, 08:37 AM

Someone in the thread used to use the second one for themselves and pretty sure they id'd as genderqueer at the moment.

The Succubus

2012-10-25, 08:38 AM

But I don't like skittles.

I prefer starburst.

:smallwink::smallbiggrin:

Starburst? STARBURST?!!

In *MY* day we called them Opal Fruits. :smallannoyed: No good punk kids.

KenderWizard

2012-10-25, 08:40 AM

Wow, that was quick.

Now I see the Op again, I have always wondered about these:

Ω, ♅

anyone care to explain?

I think the omega was to just poke gentle fun at the alphabet soup, like, we've got everything here! The other one was what Qaera (who isn't around anymore) used as a gender symbol, I think as a statement that neither the male nor the female symbol fitted them, but they also didn't have no gender. Like "other".

Socratov

2012-10-25, 08:46 AM

Someone in the thread used to use the second one for themselves and pretty sure they id'd as genderqueer at the moment.

I think the omega was to just poke gentle fun at the alphabet soup, like, we've got everything here! The other one was what Qaera used as a gender symbol, I think as a statement that neither the male nor the female symbol fitted them, but they also didn't have no gender. Like "other".

thanks. My curiosity has been satisfied (for now) :smallwink:

Lentrax

2012-10-25, 08:51 AM

Starburst? STARBURST?!!

In *MY* day we called them Opal Fruits. :smallannoyed: No good punk kids.

It's called progress, mmkay?

But seriously, it was a joke.

Rawhide

2012-10-25, 09:00 AM

http://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/2008/11/20/128717256563010367.jpg

Asta Kask

2012-10-25, 09:15 AM

One notices there's nothing in the in-thread rules about remaining on-topic. :smallsmile:

The Succubus

2012-10-25, 09:22 AM

Topics are a very nice chocolate bar, if a little hard to find these days in the UK. I'm also slightly creeped out by them as well, given that a year back someone bit into one and found a severed mouse head in it.

Astrella

2012-10-25, 09:24 AM

I think the omega was to just poke gentle fun at the alphabet soup, like, we've got everything here! The other one was what Qaera used as a gender symbol, I think as a statement that neither the male nor the female symbol fitted them, but they also didn't have no gender. Like "other".

Yar, I didn't mention her name cause I don't think we're supposed to discuss banned people?

Lentrax

2012-10-25, 09:26 AM

That's because our topic is everything under the sun.

From breakups, to self-identity, to tying Lixie up.

I don't think we have an 'on-topic' topic do we?

Socratov

2012-10-25, 09:29 AM

Yar, I didn't mention her name cause I don't think we're supposed to discuss banned people?

If I may speculate upon that, whouldn't that be about the reason of the ban and not the person him-/her-/itself?

Anyway I agree with the wide selection of things to be on-topic about :smallwink:

KenderWizard

2012-10-25, 10:22 AM

Yar, I didn't mention her name cause I don't think we're supposed to discuss banned people?

I only thought of that afterwards, but I looked at the rules again recently and I'm pretty sure it's discussing the ban or glorifying the banned person is not allowed, and that just mentioning their existence is okay. Probably best if we just drop it.

Oh! I've been meaning to ask! Anyone planning any rainbowy Hallowe'en costumes? :smallbiggrin:

Zorg

2012-10-25, 11:07 AM

I plan on not dressing up and if people ask about it I'll tell them I'm going as one of the X-Men.

Edit: people commented on my slender frame- I'm 6ft tall and weigh 60kg, so yeah, skinny.

Selpharia

2012-10-25, 12:06 PM

Asta Kask

2012-10-25, 12:58 PM

noparlpf

2012-10-25, 12:59 PM

I only thought of that afterwards, but I looked at the rules again recently and I'm pretty sure it's discussing the ban or glorifying the banned person is not allowed, and that just mentioning their existence is okay. Probably best if we just drop it.

Oh! I've been meaning to ask! Anyone planning any rainbowy Hallowe'en costumes? :smallbiggrin:

I'm going to dress as a teenager. Apathetic and angsty. Also, every parent's worst nightmare, so it fits the horror theme.

I plan on not dressing up and if people ask about it I'll tell them I'm going as one of the X-Men.

Edit: people commented on my slender frame- I'm 6ft tall and weigh 60kg, so yeah, skinny.

I'm 175cm and 82kg. Dang. You're like a twig.

Asta Kask

2012-10-25, 01:00 PM

When I was young and foolish, I was 6 ft and 48 kgs. Now it's more than twice that.

noparlpf

2012-10-25, 01:05 PM

When I was young and foolish, I was 6 ft and 48 kgs. Now it's more than twice that.

How do you do that without being just bones?

Heliomance

2012-10-25, 01:37 PM

When I was young and foolish, I was 6 ft and 48 kgs. Now it's more than twice that.

You're over 12ft? O_o

Asta Kask

2012-10-25, 01:55 PM

I had quite a growth spurt.

I had a neighbor who was 165-ish and weighed 33 kgs. But she was old and sick.

So, I thought of an idea for NaNoWiMo (is that it?) Making a coming-out story from Dickens's A Christmas Carol. The original story is essentially one of transformation so why not twist it?

I won't do it myself, but if anyone wants to discuss ideas, feel free.

Absol197

2012-10-25, 01:56 PM

You're over 12ft? O_o

Hey Helio, re-read what you quoted. 6 feet does not equal 12 feet. Now, if he'd said 6 meters...

~Phoenix~

EDIT: ...No, wait, that wouldn't work, either...I can do math! Really, I promise! <_<; ;>_>

Lentrax

2012-10-25, 02:12 PM

I only thought of that afterwards, but I looked at the rules again recently and I'm pretty sure it's discussing the ban or glorifying the banned person is not allowed, and that just mentioning their existence is okay. Probably best if we just drop it.

Oh! I've been meaning to ask! Anyone planning any rainbowy Hallowe'en costumes? :smallbiggrin:

I keep telling myself I am going to, but then I can never afford it, so I'll prolly throw on my TOS costume shirt, and head out as Captain Kirk. Again.

I plan on not dressing up and if people ask about it I'll tell them I'm going as one of the X-Men.

Edit: people commented on my slender frame- I'm 6ft tall and weigh 60kg, so yeah, skinny.

Skinny but cute, hon.

Arti3

2012-10-25, 02:32 PM

Communication, Communication, Communication......this very much helps everything. Good Communication, anyway, not sniping at each other and attacking each other. Try to give the benefit of the doubt and do your best to trust them. Don't be completely gullible, but also don't be paranoid. There is a nice middle ground there somewhere, just takes time to find it. And don't rush things. Things will happen when they happen, and just go the speed both of you are comfortable with.

That is all atm. Take it or leave it. Probably isn't all that good advise anyway :smalltongue:

Well, communication is key. Hints don't work. The Relationship Woes and Advice has some handy stuff in its OP and Serpentine may have some useful links about particular topics though I don't think those are in her signature anymore.

Cuddle and talk! :smallsmile: Enjoy it, do what feels good and don't do anything that doesn't feel good.

Do people in relationships generally not talk to each other much or something? I've done nothing but communicate with zir since it started :P Also it's an LDR so we can't physically do anything :smallfrown: but yeah, zie is adorable and wonderful and stuff ^_^

Lentrax

2012-10-25, 02:35 PM

Coidzor

2012-10-25, 02:40 PM

Mono Vertigo

2012-10-25, 02:50 PM

Do people in relationships generally not talk to each other much or something? I've done nothing but communicate with zir since it started :P Also it's an LDR so we can't physically do anything :smallfrown: but yeah, zie is adorable and wonderful and stuff ^_^
Don't know what people in relationships generally do, but what I do know is that misunderstandings (either one-sided or two-sided) happen much more frequently than you might think, and that those same misunderstandings can cause a plethora of much more serious problems.
(Proof: the plot of every single damn romantic comedy could easily be resolved with honest communication very early on. Yes, even the one where the woman pretends to be about to marry her employee to avoid being kicked out of the US, except they should have explained the situation to the guy's family. No, I don't like romantic comedies. In no small part because when those "cute" misunderstandings happen IRL, it doesn't end happily for everyone.)

Selpharia

2012-10-25, 03:23 PM

Nonsense. Just watch this video. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fl-Ye52XDRA)

I'm trying to imagine myself doing that without looking like a a clown of some kind because I've done it all wrong. Hmm, nope. Imagination Check = Failed. Still it's always impressive to see what kind of transformative magic can be worked with such sorcerous implements as properly applied makeup. Maybe one day...

~Laura

KenderWizard

2012-10-25, 03:27 PM

I keep thinking I want to dress up, but then getting cold feet and/or freaking out about how detailed I want to get, and deciding it's not worth it, especially since I don't expect to be going to any parties or anything.

~Laura

Mmh, yeah, I want to dress up but I'm not sure what I'll be doing. I've got a big con this weekend I'm involved with and I'm moving into my new apartment tomorrow so I'm totally disorganised! I think even if you're not going out, it's fun to dress up!

You're over 12ft? O_o

I laughed!

Do people in relationships generally not talk to each other much or something? I've done nothing but communicate with zir since it started :P Also it's an LDR so we can't physically do anything :smallfrown: but yeah, zie is adorable and wonderful and stuff ^_^

:smalltongue: It's a fairly common problem for couples to not properly communicate enough. It's one thing to chat, but it's another thing to actually talk and listen such that you and your partner are both happy and secure. You should be able to talk about your likes and dislikes and fears and expectations. Inside and outside of the bedroom!

Astrella

2012-10-25, 04:30 PM

I'm trying to imagine myself doing that without looking like a a clown of some kind because I've done it all wrong. Hmm, nope. Imagination Check = Failed. Still it's always impressive to see what kind of transformative magic can be worked with such sorcerous implements as properly applied makeup. Maybe one day...

~Laura

You should do it. Dressing up feels really nice. (She says while only having one top; well, it's a nice one. >.> )

-----

Also I just got back from hanging out with a trans girl friend of mine and we talked a bunch and it was fun. Especially since I don't really do the whole hanging out with offline people often. :smallsmile:

Coidzor

2012-10-25, 04:42 PM

Nix Nihila

2012-10-25, 05:38 PM

I'm trying to imagine myself doing that without looking like a a clown of some kind because I've done it all wrong. Hmm, nope. Imagination Check = Failed. Still it's always impressive to see what kind of transformative magic can be worked with such sorcerous implements as properly applied makeup. Maybe one day...

~Laura

I would highly recommend playing around with makeup (or clothes) if you get the opportunity. It may be uncomfortable at first, and it likely won't come out too well, but you have to start somewhere, and it can feel really excellent.

I suppose that's a good way of describing most of transitioning, actually.

Lentrax

2012-10-25, 07:04 PM

I would highly recommend playing around with makeup (or clothes) if you get the opportunity. It may be uncomfortable at first, and it likely won't come out too well, but you have to start somewhere, and it can feel really excellent.

I suppose that's a good way of describing most of transitioning, actually.

That really sums it up. Yeah, we all go through the 'clown makeup' phase (unless you're perfect or have someone sympathetic to assist you. Yay you)

But we all have to start somewhere. The only thing I can add is to start small. You will have a 'comfort zone.' Push it a little bit. Then a little more.

Just don't get overwhelmed. That's a surefire way to make yourself feel bad about yourself.

Heliomance

2012-10-25, 07:18 PM

Hey Helio, re-read what you quoted. 6 feet does not equal 12 feet. Now, if he'd said 6 meters...

~Phoenix~

EDIT: ...No, wait, that wouldn't work, either...I can do math! Really, I promise! <_<; ;>_>

He said he used to be 6 foot, now he's more than twice that.

KenderWizard

2012-10-25, 07:24 PM

That really sums it up. Yeah, we all go through the 'clown makeup' phase (unless you're perfect or have someone sympathetic to assist you. Yay you)

I'm reasonably sure this happens to most women and at least some non-women, regardless of what equipment you start with! Women are taught to learn quickly and invisibly how to groom themselves; make-up, hair, shaving, etc, but there is learning and it can be hilarious. The first time I tried to use kohl I just drew that stuff on all over. I think I was about 12. The astonishing thing is my mother just let me go out like that, and my friend fell around laughing at me and said I looked like I was trying to be Cleopatra. So ... yeah!

Edit:
And, here's Lana Wachowski talking about growing up trans (http://www.themarysue.com/lana-wachowski-hr/). It's quite long so I haven't watched it yet but I thought I'd share it now anyway.

Absol197

2012-10-25, 08:21 PM

He said he used to be 6 foot, now he's more than twice that.

Ah, right. Sorries, I didn't think of that! I didn't mean to sound so...Like that.

SiuiS

2012-10-25, 09:59 PM

Triscuitable

2012-10-25, 10:02 PM

♅

anyone care to explain?

Oh, Qaera used to use that one. Anyways...

You're over 12ft? O_o

I had quite a growth spurt.

I lol'd.

I would highly recommend playing around with makeup (or clothes) if you get the opportunity. It may be uncomfortable at first, and it likely won't come out too well, but you have to start somewhere, and it can feel really excellent.

I suppose that's a good way of describing most of transitioning, actually.

I like bright colors.
I hate makeup. Feels artificial.
On a "girly day", I'll wear brightly-colored jackets everywhere I go. I already have this bright-blue one.

Asta kask is actually a reptile. His length has increased, hence 6 to 12. Never said tall, right?

Alternately, same idea, adult themes. Viewer discretion advised.

Don't be silly. He's much more than just a reptile. We have this suspicion that he's a "Safe" classified SCP at the Foundation. We've just yet to confirm it.

WarKitty

2012-10-25, 10:31 PM

*pounces in, hugs thread, pounces out*

Irish Musician

2012-10-25, 10:34 PM

OMG I never get in the new thread until, like, 2nd page!! I'm so slow :smalltongue:

Do people in relationships generally not talk to each other much or something? I've done nothing but communicate with zir since it started :P Also it's an LDR so we can't physically do anything :smallfrown: but yeah, zie is adorable and wonderful and stuff ^_^
A lot of people, actually, don't communicate well. They talk to each other, but there is a difference between talking to each other, and having meaningful communication between each other.

Edit: people commented on my slender frame- I'm 6ft tall and weigh 60kg, so yeah, skinny.
Just an FYI, that is like model size. Kinda just throwing that out there lady! :smallwink:
EDIT: Not that I really know what 60kg means, being in 'Merica :smallamused:

~Matthew~

Coidzor

2012-10-25, 11:00 PM

Just an FYI, that is like model size. Kinda just throwing that out there lady! :smallwink:
EDIT: Not that I really know what 60kg means, being in 'Merica :smallamused:

About 130 pounds or what a 5'4" woman of middlingly-slight build weighs from what I recall.

golentan

2012-10-26, 12:02 AM

Irish Musician

2012-10-26, 12:12 AM

Mystic Muse

2012-10-26, 12:22 AM

*Hugs for Golentan*

Sorry to hear how things aren't working out very well.

Glad to hear your girlfriend helps.

Socratov

2012-10-26, 01:53 AM

good ol' brohug for golentan. Remember that after rain the sun will come out again :smallwink:

and yes, girlfriends are wonderful that way... really wonderful...

Also, Thanks Siuis and Trisc

Arachu

2012-10-26, 02:00 AM

I plan on not dressing up and if people ask about it I'll tell them I'm going as one of the X-Men.

Edit: people commented on my slender frame- I'm 6ft tall and weigh 60kg, so yeah, skinny.

I think I'll do the same and just say I'm dressed as a vampire. Then later switch to zombie. Maybe werewolf. :smalltongue:

*Agrees with Lentrax* X3

You should do it. Dressing up feels really nice. (She says while only having one top; well, it's a nice one. >.> )

-----

Also I just got back from hanging out with a trans girl friend of mine and we talked a bunch and it was fun. Especially since I don't really do the whole hanging out with offline people often. :smallsmile:

:3

*pounces in, hugs thread, pounces out*

*Pouncehugs afterimage~* :smalltongue:

Guys, I need a hug.

So, I just went to a dark place in my memories, between (interestingly enough) Khaos Komix (http://www.khaoskomix.com) and a conversation with Serps on facebook. (No blame to you Serpentine, I love you and I chose to go there). Anyway, I'm revisiting all my history of abuse and dysfunction in my mind, and I'm just stuck thinking that I'll never be comfortable with or understand my own sexuality. I don't know where I'm coming from, I don't know why one day something or someone can be so attractive and the next day thinking of the same thing will find me feeling so bad.

I'm glad I got to spend time with my girlfriend though. She's snuggly and wonderful.

*So many hugs*

~Bianca

supernerd

2012-10-26, 03:11 AM

Zorg

2012-10-26, 03:29 AM

*Hugs for Golly*

Bianca, that works, but you miss the terrible, terrible pun that way.

KenderWizard

2012-10-26, 03:35 AM

Oh, Golly, that's tough. *hugs*

Lentrax

2012-10-26, 03:52 AM

Guys, I need a hug.

So, I just went to a dark place in my memories, between (interestingly enough) Khaos Komix (http://www.khaoskomix.com) and a conversation with Serps on facebook. (No blame to you Serpentine, I love you and I chose to go there). Anyway, I'm revisiting all my history of abuse and dysfunction in my mind, and I'm just stuck thinking that I'll never be comfortable with or understand my own sexuality. I don't know where I'm coming from, I don't know why one day something or someone can be so attractive and the next day thinking of the same thing will find me feeling so bad.

I'm glad I got to spend time with my girlfriend though. She's snuggly and wonderful.

*Hugs. So many hugs.*
I'm sorry to hear about your dark place. I cannot, and will not compare your memories and experiences to mine because that is just wrong for anyone to do. But I will share a lesson it took me a really long time to learn (read: I still haven't fully learnt it yet.): Your past doesn't rule you. It affects you, yes. But it will only rule you if you let it.

Sorry I can't help more. Glad you have a snuggly thing to snuggle with though.:smallsmile: *hugs*

*Hugs for Golly*

Bianca, that works, but you miss the terrible, terrible pun that way.

Oh. Just got it. Clever, Zorgie. You cunning minx, you. :smallwink:

Arachu

2012-10-26, 04:00 AM

Bianca, that works, but you miss the terrible, terrible pun that way.

... *Sees what you did there* XD

~Bianca

Lady Serpentine

2012-10-26, 04:02 AM

*Hugs Golentan*

On Halloween, the guy threatening to break my arm last year kinda soured me on the whole experience. Which, admittedly, was specifically a result of volunteering in a haunted house, but... Yeah. :smallsigh:

Blue1005

2012-10-26, 04:05 AM

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Mono Vertigo

2012-10-26, 04:26 AM

Multi-hugs for Golentan. >.< *hugs!*

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The Succubus

2012-10-26, 04:28 AM

Similarly, try to leave religion out of it;
NO discussing if LGBTAetc. is "good" or "right" for the above reasons, mostly;
Everyone is welcome. *L, G, B,T, A, Q, A, N, V, P, R, Q, Ω, ♅, everyone. *As long as they behave themselves.

From the initial post. This thread has nothing to do with the moralities of LGBTism - this is merely a place for supporting and making friends.

Arachu

2012-10-26, 04:36 AM

Omega seems just to be a "we have everything! Letters! Numbers! Symbols! _________! Yes, even blank concepts filled in by by your own imaginings! So come on down to the Crazy Giant's LGBTQAthread, where WE have an attribution for YOU!"

XD

Neptune was, quite literally, "I don't feel like mars, I don't feel like Venus, what's left? Neptune?"

I thought she said it was Uranus?

On Halloween, the guy threatening to break my arm last year kinda soured me on the whole experience. Which, admittedly, was specifically a result of volunteering in a haunted house, but... Yeah. :smallsigh:

D: *Hugs!*

~Bianca

The Succubus

2012-10-26, 04:40 AM

I thought she said it was Uranus?

~Bianca

One thing I'll always remember about my GCSE science class teacher was the day we had finished covering the planets (inc Pluto - AS IT SHOULD BE) he drew me aside at the end of the lesson and asked "Why does the class always snicker when we talk about Uranus?"

Astrella

2012-10-26, 04:41 AM

*Hugs for Golly*

Bianca, that works, but you miss the terrible, terrible pun that way.

thinks...get it. :smalltongue:

So like this (http://transgirldiaries.com/?p=2487)?

Guys, I need a hug.

So, I just went to a dark place in my memories, between (interestingly enough) Khaos Komix (http://www.khaoskomix.com) and a conversation with Serps on facebook. (No blame to you Serpentine, I love you and I chose to go there). Anyway, I'm revisiting all my history of abuse and dysfunction in my mind, and I'm just stuck thinking that I'll never be comfortable with or understand my own sexuality. I don't know where I'm coming from, I don't know why one day something or someone can be so attractive and the next day thinking of the same thing will find me feeling so bad.

I'm glad I got to spend time with my girlfriend though. She's snuggly and wonderful.

Oh, I'm so sorry. *all of the hugs and sympathies*

*pounces in, hugs thread, pounces out*

*waves wing at Kitty*

Omega seems just to be a "we have everything! Letters! Numbers! Symbols! _________! Yes, even blank concepts filled in by by your own imaginings! So come on down to the Crazy Giant's LGBTQAthread, where WE have an attribution for YOU!"

Neptune was, quite literally, "I don't feel like mars, I don't feel like Venus, what's left? Neptune?"

I am a curious creature. This is like, low grade torture. Would anyone be willing to weather extraforumular contact from moi?

Oh, Kender mentioned it was Qaera. Also pretty sure it's supposed to be Uranus rather than Neptune.

Lady Serpentine

2012-10-26, 04:42 AM

I thought she said it was Uranus?

D: *Hugs!*

~Bianca

As did I...

*Hugs back*

We really need actual cyberspace... Virtual hugs are nice, but it would be nice to be able to actually feel them without having to resort to tricking my brain into generating feedback from non-existent data.

Astrella

2012-10-26, 04:44 AM

Lentrax

2012-10-26, 04:47 AM

As did I...

*Hugs back*

We really need actual cyberspace... Virtual hugs are nice, but it would be nice to be able to actually feel them without having to resort to tricking my brain into generating feedback from non-existent data.

It's funny you should mention something like this. I have, for about a year now, been concepting a prototype for a 'fully-immersive interactive experience.'

I can do the sight and sound, no problem. Touch, smell and taste however, are going to be a problem. Touch not so much, it's just going to be tricky, plus I don't think people would be willing to strip down to put on some kind of weird pressure generating body suit thing.

edit: And before anyone can ask, I am not an engineer, just a tinkerer, so I cannot provide specs or information. Partly because I am just going with feel and instinct on the project, but mostly because its still conceptual.

Blue1005

2012-10-26, 04:47 AM

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Astrella

2012-10-26, 04:49 AM

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Blue1005

2012-10-26, 04:51 AM

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Astrella

2012-10-26, 04:53 AM

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Malfunctioned

2012-10-26, 04:55 AM

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SiuiS

2012-10-26, 04:55 AM

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XD
I thought she said it was Uranus?

I know, I know. It's a mnemonic thing. I see a trident when I look at it, so Neptune stuck even though I had doubts the whole time. And yes there was a proper trident posted earlier, you hush. XD

Golly, I'm sorry. I don't know quite why you're soon that to yourself though. :smallfrown: unless you're a romantic, then it makes sense, but still. I do sincerely hope you feel better soon. Have hugs from me? *hugs*

Blue1005

2012-10-26, 04:56 AM

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Lentrax

2012-10-26, 04:57 AM

From the initial post. This thread has nothing to do with the moralities of LGBTism - this is merely a place for supporting and making friends.

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Malfunctioned

2012-10-26, 04:58 AM

I'm a dude that likes all other kinds of people.

That is in no way politically or religiously charged unless other people want to make it so.

SiuiS

2012-10-26, 04:59 AM

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Astrella

2012-10-26, 04:59 AM

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By that logic someone can't talk about losing their job either; because unemployment can be a political issue?

Lentrax

2012-10-26, 05:01 AM

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Lady Serpentine

2012-10-26, 05:03 AM

Oh, ugh, that sucks. :/ *hugs*

It's funny you should mention something like this. I have, for about a year now, been concepting a prototype for a 'fully-immersive interactive experience.'

I can do the sight and sound, no problem. Touch, smell and taste however, are going to be a problem. Touch not so much, it's just going to be tricky, plus I don't think people would be willing to strip down to put on some kind of weird pressure generating body suit thing.

Hm... Possibly that would work. I don't know though. It seems like you'd still not be getting the sensation of motion when you walked, for instance, though. How are you getting around that, and the way that people experience gravity pulling on them when they're in whatever position they adopt for it?

And if you're going to produce smell and taste, that pretty much requires that you use some sort of direct stimulation of those sections of the brain, yes? So if you're going to do that, why not just make the whole thing tie into all of the sensory centers?

Not to say that it's a bad idea, or try to trash your work, of course. I really am curious as to your answers to those questions, since this is something i've thought about a fair bit on a conceptual level as well.

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Lentrax

2012-10-26, 05:07 AM

Hm... Possibly that would work. I don't know though. It seems like you'd still not be getting the sensation of motion when you walked, for instance, though. How are you getting around that, and the way that people experience gravity pulling on them when they're in whatever position they adopt for it?

And if you're going to produce smell and taste, that pretty much requires that you use some sort of direct stimulation of those sections of the brain, yes? So if you're going to do that, why not just make the whole thing tie into all of the sensory centers?

Not to say that it's a bad idea, or try to trash your work, of course. I really am curious as to your answers to those questions, since this is something i've thought about a fair bit on a conceptual level as well.

To be honest, I not really sure. Obviously, with no professional education or training on the subjects I would never be able to test this on anyone but myself, but I wanted to be able to at least get feeling down before trying anything more real. And hey, I never said it would work, just wanna give it a shot. After all, if it inspires someone with better resources and education than me, then I win right?

Lady Serpentine

2012-10-26, 05:13 AM

If its wrong of me to want to help others feel good about themselves, I don't want to be right.

May I, if I can clear the space, sig that? :smallsmile:

On the sensory-immersion thing, that's fair enough. Not really something I have easy answers for either. I was mostly hoping that you were planning to make a marketable model of this, and trying to spot potential pitfalls to think about if you did...

And if any of this inspires people who are actually trained in relevant fields to work on it, it will indeed be worth it.

Also, gah, I quoted Lena, but it seems that I got too caught up in the other stuff to actually type a reply. So... *Hugs back*

It did indeed suck. Though fortunately, nothing actually came of it.

KenderWizard

2012-10-26, 05:14 AM

One thing I'll always remember about my GCSE science class teacher was the day we had finished covering the planets (inc Pluto - AS IT SHOULD BE) he drew me aside at the end of the lesson and asked "Why does the class always snicker when we talk about Uranus?"

That's adorable.

Pluto is not a planet! I am pro-dwarf-planet!

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The Succubus

2012-10-26, 05:17 AM

Guys, I strongly suggest a change of topic and leaving this for the mods to handle. Click the "report" button so that they can see it and then it's in their hands.

I like the idea of an LGBT themed Halloween thing with candy and rainbow coloured outfits. Just not sure how it would work. Any suggestions? :smallsmile:

Pluto is not a planet! I am pro-dwarf-planet!

Oh, alright. :smallannoyed: However, if I make this concession, the next dwarf planet we find in our solar system, we get to call it Tyrion. I know Socratov would be in favour of this idea.

Lentrax

2012-10-26, 05:29 AM

May I, if I can clear the space, sig that? :smallsmile:

On the sensory-immersion thing, that's fair enough. Not really something I have easy answers for either. I was mostly hoping that you were planning to make a marketable model of this, and trying to spot potential pitfalls to think about if you did...

And if any of this inspires people who are actually trained in relevant fields to work on it, it will indeed be worth it.

Also, gah, I quoted Lena, but it seems that I got too caught up in the other stuff to actually type a reply. So... *Hugs back*

It did indeed suck. Though fortunately, nothing actually came of it.

:smallredface:Go ahead.

I would love to be able to make a marketable model, I have been daebating what kind of schooling to go back for so I could at least give it a better try than just making some very bad pictures in my various D&D campaign notebooks.

Guys, I strongly suggest a change of topic and leaving this for the mods to handle. Click the "report" button so that they can see it and then it's in their hands.

I like the idea of an LGBT themed Halloween thing with candy and rainbow coloured outfits. Just not sure how it would work. Any suggestions? :smallsmile:

How about an actual Cheerfairy? I dunno, most of my creativity goes into planning D&D and weird total immersion cyberspace ideas. I have no fashion sense. At all.

SiuiS

2012-10-26, 05:32 AM

That's adorable.

Pluto is not a planet! I am pro-dwarf-planet!

What? No! That's horrible! You're horrible1! First Pluto gets tricked into losing the good domain by Jupiter, and now he's not even really a proper Sphere of the heavenly vault? Death god can't catch a break!

Seriously though, why is Pluto not a planet? Jupiter is a planet, and it's not even solid. Is this because of his gravity well? Well I say nay! Down with astronomical bullies! No spot just because you're huge and scary and have that one googly eye!

I like the idea of an LGBT themed Halloween thing with candy and rainbow coloured outfits. Just not sure how it would work. Any suggestions? :smallsmile:

I am going to dress like a man for Halloween :smallbiggrin:
Well, no, but my actual plans fall under the Do Not Discuss On Forum rule, so.

Oh, alright. :smallannoyed: However, if I make this concession, the next dwarf planet we find in our solar system, we get to call it Tyrion. I know Socratov would be in favour of this idea.

Oh... Hm. This may be interesting. But what will you do when instead everyone colloquially refers to it as Rupert?

1: it should be noted that the aforementioned wizard of kenders is not actually horrible, and in fact is rather charming and articulate, but such clashed with the faux distressed tone required for the joke. Compensation for any damages can be received at the ticket booth after the request is brought for review by a triumvirate panel of the most dominant personality aspects at the time. Such compensation can be received in the form of hugs, cookies, a free art voucher, a sincere and heartfelt if stumbling apology, or an expired American bus ticket with a drunken note scribbled in lipstick upon the obverse side.

Lentrax

2012-10-26, 05:59 AM

1: it should be noted that the aforementioned wizard of kenders is not actually horrible, and in fact is rather charming and articulate, but such clashed with the faux distressed tone required for the joke. Compensation for any damages can be received at the ticket booth after the request is brought for review by a triumvirate panel of the most dominant personality aspects at the time. Such compensation can be received in the form of hugs, cookies, a free art voucher, a sincere and heartfelt if stumbling apology, or an expired American bus ticket with a drunken note scribbled in lipstick upon the obverse side.

OOoooh. I would take the bus ticket! Deciphering drunken notes is SOO much fun!I may be just kidding. I may not. You'll never know!

Arachu

2012-10-26, 06:57 AM

No comment.

One thing I'll always remember about my GCSE science class teacher was the day we had finished covering the planets (inc Pluto - AS IT SHOULD BE) he drew me aside at the end of the lesson and asked "Why does the class always snicker when we talk about Uranus?"

Hehe~ :smalltongue:

thinks...get it. :smalltongue:

So like this (http://transgirldiaries.com/?p=2487)?

I have the ability to manipulate physical objects in my environment! Provided I grasp them and they weigh less then about 120 pounds. >.>

It's funny you should mention something like this. I have, for about a year now, been concepting a prototype for a 'fully-immersive interactive experience.'

I can do the sight and sound, no problem. Touch, smell and taste however, are going to be a problem. Touch not so much, it's just going to be tricky, plus I don't think people would be willing to strip down to put on some kind of weird pressure generating body suit thing.

edit: And before anyone can ask, I am not an engineer, just a tinkerer, so I cannot provide specs or information. Partly because I am just going with feel and instinct on the project, but mostly because its still conceptual.

*Wishes you so much luck~* :smallbiggrin:

I know, I know. It's a mnemonic thing. I see a trident when I look at it, so Neptune stuck even though I had doubts the whole time. And yes there was a proper trident posted earlier, you hush. XD

X3

~Bianca

Socratov

2012-10-26, 07:21 AM

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Guys, I strongly suggest a change of topic and leaving this for the mods to handle. Click the "report" button so that they can see it and then it's in their hands.
sorry, couldn't resist and wanted a peaceful resolution instead of a DM fiat like resolution

I like the idea of an LGBT themed Halloween thing with candy and rainbow coloured outfits. Just not sure how it would work. Any suggestions? :smallsmile:

I guess with stereotypes, lots of pink and other flashy colors, in some cases even slutty outfits (not mandatory) booze and I think pretty much like every other halloweenparty with a few minor details...

Oh, alright. :smallannoyed: However, if I make this concession, the next dwarf planet we find in our solar system, we get to call it Tyrion. I know Socratov would be in favour of this idea.

Indeed I am, it also keeps with the whole riches and money theme we have going on (Pluto is the roman god of death and wealth (quite the double portfolio), Tyrion is, well, a member of an insanely rich family which can sustain the financial bleeding of a whole kingdom without becoming poor). Besides, it is rumored that a lot of the smaller planets and asteroids would have heavier elements in them, increasing the chance on gold :smallamused: (though iron, nickle and cobalt would still be most common in meteorites and such)

Asta Kask

2012-10-26, 07:47 AM

Mina Kobold

2012-10-26, 07:53 AM

Oh! I've been meaning to ask! Anyone planning any rainbowy Hallowe'en costumes? :smallbiggrin:

I wish I had something, but we rarely ever celebrate the harvest festival/Samhain/All Hallows' Eve in Denmark. Children do, but we already have a dressing-up holiday (Fastelavn) and Hallowe'en never caught on with adults. :smallfrown:

Although, I do have a vampire coat. Perhaps I could tie-dye it in rainbow colours! That would most certainly be scary. :3

Guys, I need a hug.

So, I just went to a dark place in my memories, between (interestingly enough) Khaos Komix (http://www.khaoskomix.com) and a conversation with Serps on facebook. (No blame to you Serpentine, I love you and I chose to go there). Anyway, I'm revisiting all my history of abuse and dysfunction in my mind, and I'm just stuck thinking that I'll never be comfortable with or understand my own sexuality. I don't know where I'm coming from, I don't know why one day something or someone can be so attractive and the next day thinking of the same thing will find me feeling so bad.

I'm glad I got to spend time with my girlfriend though. She's snuggly and wonderful.

*HUGS*

That is terrible. Not being able to understand a part of yourself is horrifying. ;_;

I hope things get better, you two are adorable and deserve to be happy. :smallsmile:

Heliomance

2012-10-26, 08:12 AM

This is rather interesting. (http://benjaminrosenbaum.com/cgi-bin/mt/mt-view.cgi/1/entry/976) It's a look at how we perceive gender subconsciously, that actually arose by accident.

Asta Kask

2012-10-26, 08:55 AM

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Lord Raziere

2012-10-26, 09:23 AM

Oh, alright. :smallannoyed: However, if I make this concession, the next dwarf planet we find in our solar system, we get to call it Tyrion. I know Socratov would be in favour of this idea.

I'm not making any concession, Pluto's a planet. I'm too much of a fan of I'm Your Moon. Which is a good song by the way, its like this love song from Charon to Pluto.

The Succubus

2012-10-26, 09:39 AM

=O

Another JoCo fan! ^_^ I love "I'm Your Moon" as well. It's such a sweet song, like the musical equivalent of a hug. "Creepy Doll" is another goodie but my favourite is "RE: Your Brains".

Kindablue

2012-10-26, 09:47 AM

Neptune was, quite literally, "I don't feel like mars, I don't feel like Venus, what's left? Neptune?"

I wonder what a trans-Neptunian object would be in this context...

Coidzor

2012-10-26, 10:04 AM

I wonder what a trans-Neptunian object would be in this context...

My knee-jerk, off the cuff, wossname thinking favors either someone on the other side of genderqueer or someone who went from genderqueer to something involving the binary.

Maybe something like what Heliomance has going on(I'm...not really sure how to phrase it any better than that atm, sorry x.x), but not necessarily on the same axes/axis.

Lord Raziere

2012-10-26, 10:04 AM

=O

Another JoCo fan! ^_^ I love "I'm Your Moon" as well. It's such a sweet song, like the musical equivalent of a hug. "Creepy Doll" is another goodie but my favourite is "RE: Your Brains".

As for my favorite….thats hard….I think its somewhere between The Future Soon and Chiron Beta Prime. But RE: Your Brains is quite good too. The strange thing about JoCo is that all his songs are good, so its hard to pick favorites.

Asta Kask

2012-10-26, 11:31 AM

What? No! That's horrible! You're horrible1! First Pluto gets tricked into losing the good domain by Jupiter, and now he's not even really a proper Sphere of the heavenly vault? Death god can't catch a break!

Seriously though, why is Pluto not a planet? Jupiter is a planet, and it's not even solid. Is this because of his gravity well? Well I say nay! Down with astronomical bullies! No spot just because you're huge and scary and have that one googly eye!

Because Pluto has not cleared out its neighborhood. (http://www.astronomycast.com/2006/09/plutos-planetary-identity-crisis/)

The link goes to the first Astronomy Cast podcast episode, and I can highly recommend other episodes as well.

Absol197

2012-10-26, 12:37 PM

:smallsigh: I'm very depressed right now, for a couple of reasons, one of which I can't talk to you all about.

I had a bad bout of dysphoria last night and today. I hate my body...

~Phoenix~

Asta Kask

2012-10-26, 12:38 PM

I know what it's like being depressed. PM me if you want to talk about it.

Lentrax

2012-10-26, 12:43 PM

Oh Phee. I'm sorry. Is there anything I can do?
Either way.
*hugs*

Arachu

2012-10-26, 12:58 PM

Taffimai

2012-10-26, 01:04 PM

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Try to see it like this: some people keep pigs as house pets. Certain religious groups think pigs are unclean and people should avoid contact with them. Certain animal activist groups think keeping animals as pets in general is wrong. In the "Thread for the exchange of tips on how to keep your pet pig happy and funny anecdotes about keeping a pig in your home", the religious and political angle of keeping pigs as pets would not be discussed, as the only people posting there would be pig enthousiasts. Hence, the thread would not violate posting rules.

Irish Musician

2012-10-26, 01:13 PM

golentan

2012-10-26, 01:16 PM

Lix Lorn

2012-10-26, 01:31 PM

(Massive hugs for Golly)

=O

Another JoCo fan! ^_^ I love "I'm Your Moon" as well. It's such a sweet song, like the musical equivalent of a hug. "Creepy Doll" is another goodie but my favourite is "RE: Your Brains".
I'm a big fan of A Talk With George, When You Go, and I Crush Everything.

bluewind95

2012-10-26, 01:42 PM

Guys, I need a hug.

So, I just went to a dark place in my memories, between (interestingly enough) Khaos Komix (http://www.khaoskomix.com) and a conversation with Serps on facebook. (No blame to you Serpentine, I love you and I chose to go there). Anyway, I'm revisiting all my history of abuse and dysfunction in my mind, and I'm just stuck thinking that I'll never be comfortable with or understand my own sexuality. I don't know where I'm coming from, I don't know why one day something or someone can be so attractive and the next day thinking of the same thing will find me feeling so bad.

I'm glad I got to spend time with my girlfriend though. She's snuggly and wonderful.

*hugs* :smallfrown: The dark places of one's mind are never fun to visit, indeed.

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:smallsigh: I'm very depressed right now, for a couple of reasons, one of which I can't talk to you all about.

I had a bad bout of dysphoria last night and today. I hate my body...

~Phoenix~

:smallfrown: *hugs* I hope you feel better...

* wildcard for all the rest of the alphabet, definition presented here so as to appease the ones that look for these. :smallwink:

Mina Kobold

2012-10-26, 01:46 PM

Astrella

2012-10-26, 01:50 PM

:smallsigh: I'm very depressed right now, for a couple of reasons, one of which I can't talk to you all about.

I had a bad bout of dysphoria last night and today. I hate my body...

~Phoenix~

*all of the hugs*

Yar, it seems to be doing the rounds. I've been feeling really dysphoric myself the last week. :s

Seconding Golly in that my pm box is always open if you want to talk. :smallsmile:

Absol197

2012-10-26, 02:08 PM

Thanks for all the support, guys. *Hugs you all; at the same time!*

Like I mentioned before, my sysphoria usually just sits in the back of my mind like a dull ache, so when it flares up like this, it really throws me for a loop...

The other thing, which is at least somewhat related, is being depressed about politics (which, as recent discussions have made quite clear, I can't discuss here :smallsmile: ), and my future as trans (and some other things) in relation there-to.

Lady Serpentine

2012-10-26, 02:18 PM

*Hugs Phoenix and Lena*

I can't really offer more than that, but... You have my sympathies. Let me know if there's anything else I can do to help.

Zorg

2012-10-26, 02:18 PM

Sorry to hear that, Phoenix *hugs* and *hugs* for Astrella too

Dysphoria sucks, plain and simple - hopefully now you're out at home you'll be able to do a few things to manage it a little soon :smallsmile: Second point gets to me too (and us all I'm sure).

bluewind95

2012-10-26, 02:26 PM

, and my future as trans (and some other things) in relation there-to.

I think all of us here are at least trying to contribute our grain of sand to ensure a better future in that regard. From trying to educate and dissuade bigots, to just making non-bigot people who are uncomfortable with the topic due to lack of knowledge a little more used to the idea, I'm sure doing what I can. More resourceful people are doing more, too.

Asta Kask

2012-10-26, 02:29 PM

*all of the hugs*

Yar, it seems to be doing the rounds. I've been feeling really dysphoric myself the last week. :s

We need a vaccine of some sort.

Lentrax

2012-10-26, 02:34 PM

Hey all, I'm heading off to bed soon. I just want to say that you are all awesome, beautiful people. I wish I knew some of you in RL.

Sweet dreams to all.

*hugs for everyone*

Lycunadari

2012-10-26, 02:36 PM

*hugs for Zorg, Golly, Lena, Phoenix and everyone else who wants or needs them*

Oh, alright. :smallannoyed: However, if I make this concession, the next dwarf planet we find in our solar system, we get to call it Tyrion. I know Socratov would be in favour of this idea.

http://mediacdn.snorgcontent.com/media/catalog/product/i/t/itsokaypluto_fullpic_artwork.jpg
:smallbiggrin:
A dwarf planet called Tyrion would be *so* cool.
For Pluto-lovers, may I advise the book "How I killed Pluto and why it had it coming" by Mike Brown? I have only started reading it (got it as a birthday present from my father, who is an astronomer, and knows that I was always on the Pluto-as-planet-side), and I think it could be able to change my mind. :smallsmile:

Lix Lorn

2012-10-26, 02:52 PM

We need a vaccine of some sort.
Pretty sure it's called 'Hugs', but sadly it can't be shipped internationally, or digitally.

Irish Musician

2012-10-26, 03:07 PM

Pretty sure it's called 'Hugs', but sadly it can't be shipped internationally, or digitally.

*puts self in box, ships box to Lixie, jumps out of box when Lixie open it, and pounces on the Lixie*

ALL THE HUGZ!!!!!!!!

Mono Vertigo

2012-10-26, 03:26 PM

What? What is this travesty? Why are we even questioning this?
PLUTO IS A PLANET. :smallfurious:
[Within two hours, this thread will fall victim to an international flame war on the status of a celestial body most of us can't even see.] Disclaimer: I'm not actually trying to start an international flame war. This is a joke. I'm not getting anywhere near the other current debate.

So, I was told more people needed hugs? Here there be hugs!
Hopefully, they have anti-dysphoric properties, somehow.
*HUGS*

Absol197

2012-10-26, 03:30 PM

*puts self in box, ships box to Lixie, jumps out of is found dead of asphyxiation in box when Lixie opens it, and pounces decomposes on the Lixie*

ALL THE CREEPY!!!!!!!!

There, fixed that for you! :smallsmile:

Irish Musician

2012-10-26, 03:44 PM

There, fixed that for you! :smallsmile:

Pish, I'd poke holes in it Phee.....Big duh!!! :smallwink::smalltongue::smallbiggrin:

Lady Serpentine

2012-10-26, 03:45 PM

There, fixed that for you! :smallsmile:

Airholes, they are a thing.

Mystic Muse

2012-10-26, 03:52 PM

Anybody know of the proper way to shampoo/condition curly hair? My long hair is getting kinda curly, so I think it would be a good idea to know how to properly take care of it.

Asta Kask

2012-10-26, 03:57 PM

What? What is this travesty? Why are we even questioning this?
PLUTO IS A PLANET. :smallfurious:
[Within two hours, this thread will fall victim to an international flame war on the status of a celestial body most of us can't even see.] Disclaimer: I'm not actually trying to start an international flame war. This is a joke. I'm not getting anywhere near the other current debate.

No, it's not. Turn it around and set it crashing towards the sun and it would grow a tail and be indistinguishable from any run-of-the-mill comet.

Irish Musician

2012-10-26, 04:08 PM

Anybody know of the proper way to shampoo/condition curly hair? My long hair is getting kinda curly, so I think it would be a good idea to know how to properly take care of it.
As a guy having straight as a board hair all my life, I cannot. Though Biosilk:Silk therepy(TM I'm sure) is great for getting out tangles in my hair. Basically, after-you-shower conditioner. Get out of the shower, squirt about 1/2 the size of a dime's amount in your hand, rub it around in your hands, and distribute around your hair. Makes it super soft as well without having oil in the mix.

Mono Vertigo

2012-10-26, 04:25 PM

No, it's not. Turn it around and set it crashing towards the sun and it would grow a tail and be indistinguishable from any run-of-the-mill comet.
... are you implying you'd want to crash Pluto into the sun, on top of taking away its rightful title? What did Pluto ever do to you? Ate your Lucky Charms? :smallmad::smallyuk:

Coidzor

2012-10-26, 04:32 PM

Anybody know of the proper way to shampoo/condition curly hair? My long hair is getting kinda curly, so I think it would be a good idea to know how to properly take care of it.

I've been trying to figure out how to take care of my only kind of wavy hair when it starts to get long for a bit now. Apparently my biggest problem was that I was using about a quarter of conditioner a pop, though I wasn't just using it on my head since I liked the effect it had on my beard which may have been entirely a figment of my imagination, haha.

As has been said, the about half-dime of conditioner until it gets supra-long is one near-constant though from my research.

SiuiS

2012-10-26, 04:38 PM

I wish I had something, but we rarely ever celebrate the harvest festival/Samhain/All Hallows' Eve in Denmark. Children do, but we already have a dressing-up holiday (Fastelavn) and Hallowe'en never caught on with adults. :smallfrown:

Although, I do have a vampire coat. Perhaps I could tie-dye it in rainbow colours! That would most certainly be scary. :3

I always wanted to get a Long coat, and sequin it from top to bottom in dark, rainbow colors. Staring with a deep almost black violet at the top, and fading to a dark blood red at the bottom. It would of course have been won't with a top hat.

As for harvest, it stinks you don't have anything for it, bu I suppose that's a matter of taste do who knows? I know I enjoy it's deeper end immensely.

I wonder what a trans-Neptunian object would be in this context...

No clue. An object which is now neptunian but was not before?
A sunken ship would pass as trans neptunian.

:smallsigh: I'm very depressed right now, for a couple of reasons, one of which I can't talk to you all about.

I had a bad bout of dysphoria last night and today. I hate my body...

~Phoenix~

Oh honey, I'm sorry.
I know how bad this stuff can be. Just take dozens of small steps? Exercise and diet can get you closer to ideal body now, do its smoother later; saving up ten dollars a week can get you electrolysis sooner than later. Practice walking, or talking. Little things. Although that can make the dysphoria worse, if you're anything like me, you can lose yourself in the motion.

And remember, we're here for you. My email is just a "view profile" away, I you don't want to risk board in appropriate things.

No, it's not. Turn it around and set it crashing towards the sun and it would grow a tail and be indistinguishable from any run-of-the-mill comet.

so? Jupiter and Saturn wouldn't even make it that far, they'd rip apart an combust. At least Pluto would endure. By that metric, it's far less transient, far more apt for planet status.

Coidzor

2012-10-26, 04:51 PM

I always wanted to get a Long coat, and sequin it from top to bottom in dark, rainbow colors. Staring with a deep almost black violet at the top, and fading to a dark blood red at the bottom. It would of course have been won't with a top hat.

This idea.

ME GUSTA. :smallamused:

Asta Kask

2012-10-26, 04:51 PM

Combust? How? What would the hydrogen react with?

SiuiS

2012-10-26, 05:22 PM

Combust? How? What would the hydrogen react with?

I'm guessing, based on sheer mass, everything in between. We would knock it into a deeply elliptical orbit such that it resembled a comets path enough to leave a trail and be affected the sun. Unless you're saying there is absolutely nothing whatsoever in Jupiters... Atmosphere? Is it even atmosphere, I mean the entirel thing is gaseous... Anyway. Nothing at all in its composition that would burn? Or is hydrogen becomin helium atrictly a matter of pressure and not temperature whatsoever?

Admittedly, I'm working from the perspective of "fire burns things. The sun is fire. Ergo ye sun burns things."

Lady Serpentine

2012-10-26, 05:26 PM

Wouldn't it react with the oxygen from the water-ice in Jupiter's rings, once those started being exposed to solar temperatures?

Kindablue

2012-10-26, 05:42 PM

Is anyone else here watching Key & Peele (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCW_UH-k-ec)?

golentan

2012-10-26, 05:47 PM

Is anyone else here watching Key & Peele (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCW_UH-k-ec)?

Yes, and I'm enjoying their continuing "I am actually gay and in love with you to the point of incredible inappropriateness" sketches more than I maybe should be.

Coidzor

2012-10-26, 06:33 PM

Is anyone else here watching Key & Peele (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCW_UH-k-ec)?

Ok, I liked them.

Now I really like them.

Selpharia

2012-10-26, 07:28 PM

:smallsigh: I'm very depressed right now, for a couple of reasons, one of which I can't talk to you all about.

I had a bad bout of dysphoria last night and today. I hate my body...

~Phoenix~

*hugs*

I hope things get better soon, sweetie. Siuis has already given some really good advice, but maybe for now just do something to distract yourself, like a game of some kind? That's what I do when I can't really do anything else and dysphoria hits. My PM box is also open, if you want to talk about anything that might disrupt the flow of the thread. I know you've mentioned before that you have at least one friend who knows, (I think) so maybe just talking with her would make things a little better

~Laura

SaintRidley

2012-10-26, 08:36 PM

SiuiS

2012-10-26, 08:49 PM

Selpharia

2012-10-26, 08:52 PM

Irish Musician

2012-10-26, 09:25 PM

Coidzor

2012-10-26, 09:29 PM

I...umm....errr...... (http://i.imgur.com/pWBRf.gif)

...Does anyone know what that's from? :smallconfused: That's been stumping everyone I know and at least two forum communities for a while now...

I still can't believe we named one of them Orcus. :smalleek:

Irish Musician

2012-10-26, 09:30 PM

Kindablue

2012-10-26, 09:31 PM

Lady Serpentine

2012-10-26, 09:32 PM

SiuiS

2012-10-26, 09:50 PM

...Does anyone know what that's from? :smallconfused: That's been stumping everyone I know and at least two forum communities for a while now...

I still can't believe we named one of them Orcus. :smalleek:

Yes, actually, though I don't have specifics. I believe it's from a movie. I'll have to check out my stuff, see which ones on my shel it could be from. I've seen it within the last five ish years though.

I reverse my position on this issue and demand that that be taught to all primary school children from now on.

the most compassionate of Daleks.

Kindablue

2012-10-26, 09:53 PM

the most compassionate of Daleks.

ED-U-CATE!

And that is definitely Castle.

PairO'Dice Lost

2012-10-26, 10:02 PM

On Pluto. Pluto's a planet. It just has a beard and carries an axe and lives underground. So do [...] Orcus.

I believe you mean "has horns" and "carries a wand" and "lives in the Abyss." So obviously the classification of "dwarf planet" is completely incorrect. I mean, really, who are you going to trust, the scientific community or the Monster Manual?

Castle? Doesn't look like its from Firefly

It is indeed from Castle. Season 2, episode 9, last scene, if I recall correctly.

Lix Lorn

2012-10-26, 10:40 PM

*puts self in box, ships box to Lixie, jumps out of box when Lixie open it, and pounces on the Lixie*

ALL THE HUGZ!!!!!!!!
ACK
xD
That's not shipping hugs, it's shipping you :P

I...umm....errr...... (http://i.imgur.com/pWBRf.gif)

~Matthew~
This is the best gif ever.

SaintRidley

2012-10-26, 10:48 PM

I believe you mean "has horns" and "carries a wand" and "lives in the Abyss." So obviously the classification of "dwarf planet" is completely incorrect. I mean, really, who are you going to trust, the scientific community or the Monster Manual?

Fun fact on why they named it Orcus. It has a large moon, much like Pluto, has a similar orbiting situation including crossing Neptune's orbit, and when it's at aphelion, Pluto is at perihelion, and vice versa. Anti-Pluto was in consideration for a name. Eventually they took the name of the Etruscan equivalent to Pluto and named it that.

Arachu

2012-10-27, 12:15 AM

*Was gonna start saying why Pluto obviously isn't a planet and change stances halfway through, but couldn't think of a clever way to word it* >.<

Hey all, I'm heading off to bed soon. I just want to say that you are all awesome, beautiful people. I wish I knew some of you in RL.

Sweet dreams to all.

*hugs for everyone*

*Hugs~*

I always wanted to get a Long coat, and sequin it from top to bottom in dark, rainbow colors. Staring with a deep almost black violet at the top, and fading to a dark blood red at the bottom. It would of course have been won't with a top hat.

This. :smallbiggrin:

On Pluto. Pluto's a planet. It just has a beard and carries an axe and lives underground. So do Ceres, Sedna, Haumea, Makemake, Eris, 2007 OR10, Quaoar, and Orcus.

New mnemonic:
My Very Energetic Mother Can't Jump Slowly Underground. Nifty Orange Pastries Hate the Queen Mother's Evil 2007 Sisters.

Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Ceres, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Orcus, Pluto, Haumea, Quaoar, Makemake, Eris, 2007 OR10, Sedna.

Everybody clear?

Like quartz. :smalltongue:

~Bianca

SiuiS

2012-10-27, 12:38 AM

Fun fact on why they named it Orcus. It has a large moon, much like Pluto, has a similar orbiting situation including crossing Neptune's orbit, and when it's at aphelion, Pluto is at perihelion, and vice versa. Anti-Pluto was in consideration for a name. Eventually they took the name of the Etruscan equivalent to Pluto and named it that.

ETRUSCAN THANK YOU OH SWEET SISTERS
I've been trying to place that word for weeks. Oh,bless you kid rotting evil lookin.... Okay maybe not is better. But thanks!

Like quartz. :smalltongue:

~Bianca

You are clear as quartz? Bianca no that is unhealthy you need to get that checked out, meat is opaque and even if you're cloudy well that just will not do.

Irish Musician

2012-10-27, 01:08 AM

ACK
xD
That's not shipping hugs, it's shipping you :P
Meh, Same difference :smalltongue:

the most compassionate of Daleks.
EX-TER-MIN-ATE.....the IG-NOR-ANCE!!!!!!!!!

SaintRidley

2012-10-27, 02:07 AM

Siuis, no problem. And no blessings necessary. They kind of harsh the vibe I like to go for.

WarKitty

2012-10-27, 02:19 AM

Does anyone else ever wonder if maybe they're playing at being LGBT*?

golentan

2012-10-27, 02:23 AM

Does anyone else ever wonder if maybe they're playing at being LGBT*?

Yes. As mentioned, my sexuality is very confusing and I do not understand it.

WarKitty

2012-10-27, 02:26 AM

Yes. As mentioned, my sexuality is very confusing and I do not understand it.

Yeah. It's complicated for me because I have this weird attraction-repulsion thing going with men - I start to get attached, but then if a guy shows interest back I totally freak out and don't want to go anywhere. Which I'm pretty sure has to do with my ex somehow, but then I don't really want to go into it because I don't want to deal with yet another round of "gay/bi people are that way because of abuse"...

Arachu

2012-10-27, 02:47 AM

Sometimes I wonder if I might actually be androsexual(ish), but then I remember that being icked out by that bodypart isn't from lack of attraction but rather how... Unpleasant the website I discovered it on was. :smallyuk:

Anyways, I'm sure some people would assume that trauma led to my bisexuality and maybe even blame dissociation for my gender, but that just isn't the case... That doesn't make my habit of questioning every detail of myself less annoying about it, though. >.>

*Hugs Kitty and Golly*

~Bianca

Mina Kobold

2012-10-27, 03:26 AM

On Pluto. Pluto's a planet. It just has a beard and carries an axe and lives underground. So do Ceres, Sedna, Haumea, Makemake, Eris, 2007 OR10, Quaoar, and Orcus.

New mnemonic:
My Very Energetic Mother Can't Jump Slowly Underground. Nifty Orange Pastries Hate the Queen Mother's Evil 2007 Sisters.

Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Ceres, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Orcus, Pluto, Haumea, Quaoar, Makemake, Eris, 2007 OR10, Sedna.

Everybody clear?

Very clear. :3

Not particularly relevant, but the explanation I have heard is that this is not the first time something has been reclassified after being declared a planet. As technology improves, so do our ability to figure out exactly what the different glowy objects moving around in the solar system are. For all we know, Dwarf planets may become a sub-category of planets once we sort out the problems in the system. Personally, I vote for reclassifying the Gas Giants as Orc planets and comets as Gnomes. We could make the entire universe one big RPG! ^_^ :smalltongue:

ACK
xD
That's not shipping hugs, it's shipping you :P

Shipping Celtic... With Lixie? I detect fan-fiction material! X3

Astrella

2012-10-27, 06:00 AM

Does anyone else ever wonder if maybe they're playing at being LGBT*?

*nod*

Well, there's the whole gender-second guessing (which also comes with the nice "Oh, you're not feeling dysphoric right now? Must mean you're not really a girl!") but sexuality isn't really clear either. (And the whole nagging voice of "you didn't know at age 3, just mean you're not really trans!").

Like, attraction to guys in confusing; cause I'm not sure to what degree there is "women are supposed to be attracted to men" sillyness going on in my head. Iunno, it's messy. And there's also the whole being trans making my feelings towards "maleness" sorta iffy sometime. :s

*hugs and sympathies*

-----

Also thanks for the hugs and sympathies everyone. :smallsmile:

Also; there's a Halloween thingie for my trans youth group next Wednesday so I'm hoping I can bring up the courage to at least get a new top or two to wear.

Serpentine

2012-10-27, 09:54 AM

I don't know what this is from, but I like it. (http://cheezburger.com/43166209)

Also this is completely irrelevant to this thread but the R'ships thread isn't back yet :cBleeeegh. My mum is (totally not) trying to set me up with a guy she knows. This is awkward enough already. I think he might be interested in me. I am not. Could be wrong - hopefully I am wrong and he's just friendly. I'm just also full of awks and trying to only give off exactly the right sort of signals to avoid awkward conversations and such.
Bonus: he's the closest I have to a friend - or even an acquaintance my age - within a 2+ hour drive.
Just whingin'.

Lord Raziere

2012-10-27, 10:01 AM

yea, I'm uncertain whether I'm genderless or female…. but I do dislike the hyper-masculine male image, but that only makes me wonder if I'm just rebelling against it. but still, I don't really feel that male is my thing, but I'm still deciding on whether gender is my thing at all.

Coidzor

2012-10-27, 10:35 AM

Does anyone else ever wonder if maybe they're playing at being LGBT*?

About half of the GSA and my IRL friends in the LGBTA community at one time or another. Though I don't think they'd all have the same word choice to describe it.

Especially the ones who were still working out what was going on with themselves. But inner turmoil is kind of like that.

With how life has gone, I'll probably never know for sure now, but I've already got enough regrets on my plate that I can live with one more if it never decides for itself.

Yeah. It's complicated for me because I have this weird attraction-repulsion thing going with men - I start to get attached, but then if a guy shows interest back I totally freak out and don't want to go anywhere. Which I'm pretty sure has to do with my ex somehow, but then I don't really want to go into it because I don't want to deal with yet another round of "gay/bi people are that way because of abuse"...

At the risk of sounding callous and cold, I don't think you're in much risk of getting that card played here or in private conversation with anyone from this thread who would be able to offer you some actual counsel. :smalltongue: Or even those who would be unable to do more than offer you emotional positivity and support.

Mina Kobold

2012-10-27, 10:42 AM

I don't know what this is from, but I like it. (http://cheezburger.com/43166209)

It is apparently a video from VlogBrothers (http://www.youtube.com/user/vlogbrothers), featuring Hank Green (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hank_Green). Do not know much about that particular channel, but Hank's Scishow (http://www.youtube.com/user/scishow) series is quite fun. :smallsmile:

Also this is completely irrelevant to this thread but the R'ships thread isn't back yet :cBleeeegh. My mum is (totally not) trying to set me up with a guy she knows. This is awkward enough already. I think he might be interested in me. I am not. Could be wrong - hopefully I am wrong and he's just friendly. I'm just also full of awks and trying to only give off exactly the right sort of signals to avoid awkward conversations and such.
Bonus: he's the closest I have to a friend - or even an acquaintance my age - within a 2+ hour drive.
Just whingin'.

That sounds immensely awkward. Is there any way to explain to your mother that you are not interested?

Sorry if that seems like obvious advice, I have absolutely no experience in avoiding awkwardness. ^_^'

Re: Second-guessing: I have doubted myself a lot, including my asexuality and gender. Even besides my general self-doubt, I have worried that I may simply be easily squicked by sex and not truly asexual. What if I am just easily affected by the mentality of sex as a bad thing? I am still not quite as sure if I am deep down not at all attracted to peeps, but I am sure that sex is not something I want, so it will effectively remain the same even if I am wrong about being asexual. Still making my brain hurt, though. ^_^'

In regards to my gender, I am in complete confusion. I still keep to the Genderqueer label, but I am not so sure it is still accurate. Not that I think I am at all cis, though I do fear that I am just being angsty, but... I might be a lot closer to transgender. I may just be feeling frustrated with how people keep being so focused on rigid gender roles around me, but the stories about dysphoria ring very close to what I have experienced. Feeling wrong when I see myself in the mirror, wishing my voice was different, wishing we could just invent technology to let us choose for ourselves. So confusing. >_<

Sorry to get all gloomy. I kind of needed to just put it in words. ^_^'

gunnar11

2012-10-27, 12:03 PM

Does anyone else ever wonder if maybe they're playing at being LGBT*?
I have doubted this for myself a long time. To be honest, I still am. I really screwed up a year because I felt different for not falling in love with anyone, while everyone around me was telling me of 'the butterflies' they felt, or how their heart rate increased, or they felt extremely happy, or warm. Anyway, you get it.

At one moment I told someone I was asexual, because I had never fallen in love, at which moment she concluded I was bisexual. She had asked me if I was sexually interested in people (which led me to some weeks trying to figure out if I was 'normal' or just a horny-perv), and I answered yes.

She concluded for me that, while I like 'being' with men and women, without falling in love, I'm bisexual. I'm still not sure myself, but telling people I'm bisexual is a lot easier than trying to tell the whole story or saying I'm asexual (people think it's weirder to be asexual than bisexual)

I don't know what this is from, but I like it. (http://cheezburger.com/43166209)

He speaks many truths.

Also this is completely irrelevant to this thread but the R'ships thread isn't back yet :cBleeeegh. My mum is (totally not) trying to set me up with a guy she knows. This is awkward enough already. I think he might be interested in me. I am not. Could be wrong - hopefully I am wrong and he's just friendly. I'm just also full of awks and trying to only give off exactly the right sort of signals to avoid awkward conversations and such.
Bonus: he's the closest I have to a friend - or even an acquaintance my age - within a 2+ hour drive.
Just whingin'.
I'm wondering: Can't you just talk to him to see if he's feeling anything for you? Because if he isn't it doesn't really matter if your mom is trying to set you up, it won't happen. If he is, though, you might want to sort things out with him first.
Either way, no one has the power to say anything on a relationship between two people, so I think you should sort it out with that friends first, let your mom wait a bit.

Yeah. It's complicated for me because I have this weird attraction-repulsion thing going with men - I start to get attached, but then if a guy shows interest back I totally freak out and don't want to go anywhere. Which I'm pretty sure has to do with my ex somehow, but then I don't really want to go into it because I don't want to deal with yet another round of "gay/bi people are that way because of abuse"...
Something with your ex?
Anyways: Are you sure it's because they show interest in you, that you get repulsed, or is it because you're too shy/insecure to just go with them, so you stop being attracted to them (like they are invading your comfort zone)

Just asking; I had the latter one for quite a while.

And one question for all: What's the definition of pansexual?
A guy I know said he was one, and told me it basically is that you can fall in love with everything and everyone, including animals, tables, walls, clouds, etc.
Is this true or am I being too childish believing that?

monkyman640

2012-10-27, 01:20 PM

And one question for all: What's the definition of pansexual?
A guy I know said he was one, and told me it basically is that you can fall in love with everything and everyone, including animals, tables, walls, clouds, etc.
Is this true or am I being too childish believing that?

Pansexual is sexual attraction, sexual desire, romantic love, or emotional attraction toward persons of all gender identities and biological sexes. Thank you Wikipedia!

Mono Vertigo

2012-10-27, 01:29 PM

Does anyone else ever wonder if maybe they're playing at being LGBT*?
Yes.
I've seen people, otherwise involved to a very high degree in LGBT matters, discard demisexuality as nothing more but a word heterosexuals use to invite themselves in (because we know there can't be demisexual pan/biromantics, or demisexual homoromantics, etc). Followed, of course, on brief but completely unnecessary moments of doubt from me.
Jury's still out on the "heteromantic" part, but I consider my libido is sufficiently low and specific for me to not qualify as an "hetero with standards". If I had extreme standards, I would still, y'know, have people I'm attracted to upon which I could apply these standards.

Hell, when I first joined this series of thread, I did it so because BF is FtM; it did not occur to me at first that since my sexuality does not fit the norm, I could technically be counted as part of the community. Beside, because of the nature of my libido, all I know is that I'm not homoromantic. I might be heteromantic, or panromantic/biromantic. Pinpointing the -romantic part of my orientation would require further testing, but unless my sexuality fluctuates any further from strict asexuality, said testing will likely never have a chance to happen. I'm fine with that, though my scientific side is disappointed no experimenting is going to take place any time soon.

SiuiS

2012-10-27, 01:38 PM

Does anyone else ever wonder if maybe they're playing at being LGBT*?

Yep. Still do. Doesn't matter how much the info I have would make me roll my eyes if another denied it; I'm still all freaked out about it.

Which is silly but hey.

I have doubted this for myself a long time. To be honest, I still am. I really screwed up a year because I felt different for not falling in love with anyone, while everyone around me was telling me of 'the butterflies' they felt, or how their heart rate increased, or they felt extremely happy, or warm. Anyway, you get it.

At one moment I told someone I was asexual, because I had never fallen in love, at which moment she concluded I was bisexual. She had asked me if I was sexually interested in people (which led me to some weeks trying to figure out if I was 'normal' or just a horny-perv), and I answered yes.

She concluded for me that, while I like 'being' with men and women, without falling in love, I'm bisexual. I'm still not sure myself, but telling people I'm bisexual is a lot easier than trying to tell the whole story or saying I'm asexual (people think it's weirder to be asexual than bisexual)

This is why I hate the concept of One True LoveTM. The idea that you need to be certain things at certain times or you're less human. It's entirely possible that you just haven't found a good trigger, mate.

And one question for all: What's the definition of pansexual?
A guy I know said he was one, and told me it basically is that you can fall in love with everything and everyone, including animals, tables, walls, clouds, etc.
Is this true or am I being too childish believing that?

It's a small distinction, but pansexual is attracted to people regardless of gender/expression, bisexual is being attracted to 'both' genders/expressions. I define as pansexual because the body form is not germane to my attraction at all on a romantic and titilation level. Still think girls are prettiest though.

Kindablue

2012-10-27, 01:51 PM

Does anyone else ever wonder if maybe they're playing at being LGBT*?

I've had a few identity crises, but never about that, no.

Astrella

2012-10-27, 02:04 PM

It's a small distinction, but pansexual is attracted to people regardless of gender/expression, bisexual is being attracted to 'both' genders/expressions. I define as pansexual because the body form is not germane to my attraction at all on a romantic and titilation level. Still think girls are prettiest though.

Note that a lot of people who call themselves bisexual are 'technically pansexual'. Not everyone knows the label or wants to identify as such. The labels are pretty loose categorizations anyway and can mean different things for different people.

Lentrax

2012-10-27, 02:06 PM

Does anyone else ever wonder if maybe they're playing at being LGBT*?

Yeah. I have, I do, and I probably always will.

Arti3

2012-10-27, 02:14 PM

Yeah. It's complicated for me because I have this weird attraction-repulsion thing going with men - I start to get attached, but then if a guy shows interest back I totally freak out and don't want to go anywhere. Which I'm pretty sure has to do with my ex somehow, but then I don't really want to go into it because I don't want to deal with yet another round of "gay/bi people are that way because of abuse"...

This is why I don't talk about my childhood experiences even if I do think they affected me to some degree. I do doubt myself all the time, but it's not limited to sexuality.

I may be going to a birthday party! The birthday girl is helping me with the Fundraising Committee for my GSA but I'm worried about getting back to my dorms, they live a little off campus.

Selpharia

2012-10-27, 03:40 PM

Does anyone else ever wonder if maybe they're playing at being LGBT*?

Yes, pretty often. I think part of it is like Astrelia said, that there's an "accepted" narrative for these kinds of things, and not fitting into that is always spawning doubts and fears, especially since being openly trans would be such a huge change. But I think things are getting better as I get more of a chance to see that those narratives aren't necessarily as dominant as their prevalence suggests.

~Laura

Castaras

2012-10-27, 04:53 PM

On the flip side of the coin, I sometimes wonder if I'm interested so much in LGBT stuff because I've got something subconscious. Feeling doesn't stay long, but every now and again I still wonder (used to have some gender and sexual confusion, settled when I got older).

Coidzor

2012-10-27, 05:01 PM

I may be going to a birthday party! The birthday girl is helping me with the Fundraising Committee for my GSA but I'm worried about getting back to my dorms, they live a little off campus.

Ask them if any other attendees are coming from your neck of the woods to do some nosing around to look into carpooling?

And one question for all: What's the definition of pansexual?
A guy I know said he was one, and told me it basically is that you can fall in love with everything and everyone, including animals, tables, walls, clouds, etc.
Is this true or am I being too childish believing that?

As you might guess from the responses so far, it's complicated, and a source of endemic disagreements as to the fine details. It defies an easy answer from what I've seen so far.

In practical terms it generally seems to mean you either shouldn't/don't need to ask for more details and that you'd also still have to ask if you'd need to ask the question of any other stated sexuality.

At one moment I told someone I was asexual, because I had never fallen in love, at which moment she concluded I was bisexual. She had asked me if I was sexually interested in people (which led me to some weeks trying to figure out if I was 'normal' or just a horny-perv), and I answered yes.

She concluded for me that, while I like 'being' with men and women, without falling in love, I'm bisexual. I'm still not sure myself, but telling people I'm bisexual is a lot easier than trying to tell the whole story or saying I'm asexual (people think it's weirder to be asexual than bisexual)

Which variety of asexual experiences sexual desire? :smallconfused: It sounds almost like you are conflating sexuality and relationships/love/romance.

Lix Lorn

2012-10-27, 05:55 PM

Meh, Same difference :smalltongue:
Same result ;P

Shipping Celtic... With Lixie? I detect fan-fiction material! X3
Fund it!

Does anyone else ever wonder if maybe they're playing at being LGBT*?
I used to. I have a tendency to look at some random mental thing and go 'I bet I have that'. I spent several weeks doing some introspecting until I was sure about it, and that surity has locked that nasty question away pretty well.

gunnar11

2012-10-27, 05:57 PM

Which variety of asexual experiences sexual desire? :smallconfused: It sounds almost like you are conflating sexuality and relationships/love/romance.
I've found that sex and romance are real tight connected. As such, having a great gap between the two subjects makes me doubt. Now, you could identify it as romance-less bisexuality, or something, but I just call it being bisexual.
Maybe you can tell me a better name for what I experience?

Which is silly but hey.
How so? I think it's just perfectly perfect :smallsmile:

This is why I hate the concept of One True LoveTM. The idea that you need to be certain things at certain times or you're less human. It's entirely possible that you just haven't found a good trigger, mate.

I hate the concept too, but hey, I can't do anything about it!

What do you mean by a good trigger? Someone who can trigger the butterflies?

Also: thanks for all the pansexual definitions :smalltongue:

SaintRidley

2012-10-27, 07:18 PM

Biromantic asexual seems to be the term you're looking for.

Coidzor

2012-10-27, 07:20 PM

I've found that sex and romance are real tight connected. As such, having a great gap between the two subjects makes me doubt. Now, you could identify it as romance-less bisexuality, or something, but I just call it being bisexual.

There's interplay, sure, and really, whatever you're most comfortable telling people who ask, and simpler is usually better there.

But who one loves and who one is sexually attracted to, as far as I've ever heard, only really overlap more than in passing for demisexual individuals.

Maybe you can tell me a better name for what I experience?

Biromantic asexual seems to be the term you're looking for.

Sounds more like bisexual aromantic to me. :smallconfused:

As for the trigger, gunnar11, I think that might have been in reference to falling in love or what have you.

SaintRidley

2012-10-27, 07:44 PM

Sounds more like bisexual aromantic to me. :smallconfused:

Whoops. Right you are. That's the one I meant.

Serpentine

2012-10-27, 07:48 PM

I consider pansexual to be a more technically accurate synonym for bisexual, i.e. capable of falling for anyone. I would also uses omnisexual for someone who's capable of falling for everyone (Harkness) :B

SiuiS

2012-10-27, 07:49 PM

Note that a lot of people who call themselves bisexual are 'technically pansexual'. Not everyone knows the label or wants to identify as such. The labels are pretty loose categorizations anyway and can mean different things for different people.

Yup! And all pansexuals are by definition bisexual, but not the other way around, and only really if want to argue meaningless academic trivia. Really, it's mostly for fun. If it comes to an argument I'll shrug it off; it's a convenient way of saying "I don't like boys or girls, I like people".

I've found that sex and romance are real tight connected. As such, having a great gap between the two subjects makes me doubt. Now, you could identify it as romance-less bisexuality, or something, but I just call it being bisexual.
Maybe you can tell me a better name for what I experience?

That's true, but here is the thing. Impressions can be wrong.

The impression given is that a man is born with a penis, and a woman is born with a vagina, and that's all there is to it. But not only are people born with the wrong genitalia, some people don't really identify as man or woman at all.

Also, prevailing wisdom is that you will be sexually attracted to the people you love, but you will also be sexually attracted to people you don't love. So already the world accepts that romance and attraction are not conjoined. But because sex is so ingrained in our psyches, people just cannot wrap their heads around being able to be romantically attracted and in love with someone, and not find them sexy/hot/a turn on. But that doesn't mean it never happens, it just means that when it does happen people in general call you a liar until you ago talking about it and they feel they won, proved you were lying and reassertion their worldview.

Asexuals can fall in love. There are asexuals who find sex icky and gross an we why, there are asexuals who just aren't interested in sex but are willing as a sign of love, and there are even asexuals who indulge on occasion in the fashion of fulfilling a physical craving for a food you don't like. Although that sounds like aromantic to me, I'm just not goin to tell someone they aren't asexual. On the other end, aromantics exist, people who just don't get love. They can still have sex, or they could not. But the two are definitely separate, even of they overlap often enough to be confusing.

In the vein of complete disclosure, sexually active aromantics disturb me.

What do you mean by a good trigger? Someone who can trigger the butterflies?

Also: thanks for all the pansexual definitions :smalltongue:

Coidzor is right. I meant just ecause you haven't fallen in love yet doesn't mean you ne'er will, you're broken and useless and you need to find someone and marry them and have kids even if you don't know if you love them and obey the mandates of culture BECAUSE SOCIETY. There is no timescale. If you Find yourself in love at 90, thats fine, even if you've never found yourself in love before that.

Trigger, specifically, is someone who triggers happy feelings. Yes.

golentan

2012-10-28, 01:12 AM

SiuiS

2012-10-28, 04:48 AM

So, it's disappointing to see how much trans-hate there is over on even the Queerty comments section. I may not have always seen why the need to surgically transition is so strong in so many people (truth be told it's still kind of baffling to me :smallconfused:) but I've never seen why people shouldn't be acknowledged for who they are, or should be shamed for it, or should have barriers erected against them. But even on a site dedicated to non-heteronormativity it seems like trans people always get the short end of the stick.

And so, to all the trans people reading this, you get big hugs. I'm right behind you.

It doesn't exactly make sense to me, either. Surgery conceptually, I have a love/hate relationship with. And having recently gone through an extended healing period with one of the cleanest breaks the doctor had seen, the recovery period kind of freaks me out. But... It feels like the right thing to do? I mean, I have a desired end result. If I'm willing to go for any amount of pain for it, I may as well get the most for my money yes?

Admittedly, the end result leaves me with some questions as well. But I've never been satisfied, merely tolerant, of what I've got already.

Oddly enough, I haven't seen any trans hate from anyone I wouldn't expect it from; the same guys who would mock redheads, blacks an homosexuals. So I probably have a painful shock coming real soon.

Mina Kobold

2012-10-28, 09:03 AM

I have always found the need for surgery in many people quite logical. Dysphoria is caused by physical traits that are wrong, so getting those traits closer to right would naturally alleviate that. It would not be the case for everybody, since identity and dysphoria are very complicated, but it does make sense that it is common. :smallsmile:

Then again, being a trans-humanist in every sense of the word, I may or may not lack proper caution around the topic of surgery. :smalltongue:

On romance and sexuality: Ayup, they are more of a Venn diagram than directly linked. As poor as I am at social stuff, I would be quite positive towards romance, but am very much asexual. ^_^

Nobody believes that last part, though. ;_;

Asta Kask

2012-10-28, 10:25 AM

So... if straight tea is without milk and sugar, what ingredients do you have in LGBTA tea?

Mono Vertigo

2012-10-28, 10:31 AM

So... if straight tea is without milk and sugar, what ingredients do you have in LGBTA tea?
Sugar, spice, and everything nice?
No, wait, wrong show.

Mystic Muse

2012-10-28, 11:30 AM

Sugar, spice, and everything nice?

"These were the ingredients to create the perfect little girls. But professer utonium accidentally added an extra ingredient to the concoction. Chemical X. Thus, the Powerpuff girls were born!"

Coidzor

2012-10-28, 11:43 AM

So... if straight tea is without milk and sugar, what ingredients do you have in LGBTA tea?

I was always fond with the queer tea, bubble tea connection myself.

Lix Lorn

2012-10-28, 11:43 AM

Clearly, adding chemical X to people makes them LGBTA...
this is a joke

Lentrax

2012-10-28, 01:13 PM

So... if straight tea is without milk and sugar, what ingredients do you have in LGBTA tea?

Anything and everything under the sun.

Obviously.

Coidzor

2012-10-28, 01:17 PM

Anything and everything under the sun.

Obviously.

This Muffin (http://thepunchlineismachismo.com/archives/811) seems relevant.

SiuiS

2012-10-28, 01:42 PM

So... if straight tea is without milk and sugar, what ingredients do you have in LGBTA tea?

Whiskey and love~

This Muffin (http://thepunchlineismachismo.com/archives/811) seems relevant.

I love that comic. That guy is awesome.

Asta Kask

2012-10-28, 02:00 PM

Shouldn't Asexuals have nothing added to their tea? Unless they're romantics of some sort, in which case I have to ask - what is the tea additive essence of romance?

Lentrax

2012-10-28, 02:01 PM

This Muffin (http://thepunchlineismachismo.com/archives/811) seems relevant.

Its the lucky charms that give the crunch, you know?

Mina Kobold

2012-10-28, 02:12 PM

Clearly, adding chemical X to people makes them LGBTA...
this is a joke

Thirty Lagerbetas that there is a Silver Age comicbook about that. ::::3
SpiderQueerKitty!

This Muffin (http://thepunchlineismachismo.com/archives/811) seems relevant.

That one comic is so adorable. ^_^

Shouldn't Asexuals have nothing added to their tea? Unless they're romantics of some sort, in which case I have to ask - what is the tea additive essence of romance?

Chocolate, of course. Serotonin is Serotinin. :smallsmile:

I really wish I drank tea, I want to try all these ideas. ^_^'

golentan

2012-10-28, 02:25 PM

Thirty Lagerbetas that there is a Silver Age comicbook about that. ::::3
SpiderQueerKitty!

Well, in the world of comics there is always Pink Kryptonite...

That one comic is so adorable. ^_^

I know, right? And very inclusive despite the name. It's quite nice that the Cap is so pro-LGBT and perfectly secure in his masculinity.

Chocolate, of course. Serotonin is Serotinin. :smallsmile:

I really wish I drank tea, I want to try all these ideas. ^_^'

Hmm, on the tea issue, I'd say that since we know that straight tea means without cream or sugar, Gay tea should be lemon for a little splash of the rainbow, Bi/Pan tea should be Masala Chai because it has a bit of everything, Asexual tea should probably be herbal tea (different system from other teas, it can still be straight or have anything else you wish to include to represent romantic orientation), Demi tea is like one of the others with a time release bag, Trans tea could be one of the fermented teas (it starts as one thing and then goes through a process to change into another)... Hmmm...

Coidzor

2012-10-28, 02:53 PM

Shouldn't Asexuals have nothing added to their tea? Unless they're romantics of some sort, in which case I have to ask - what is the tea additive essence of romance?

Obviously they take coffee with various degrees of chicory or mochination rather than tea.

Saskia

2012-10-28, 03:14 PM

In the vein of complete disclosure, sexually active aromantics disturb me.

Really? Do you mean that somebody who doesn't have romantic inclinations should be celibate? That seems like a strange thing to find disturbing. I'm not picking at you, I just don't understand :smallredface:

Oddly enough, I haven't seen any trans hate from anyone I wouldn't expect it from; the same guys who would mock redheads, blacks an homosexuals. So I probably have a painful shock coming real soon.

Maybe, but people are funny animals. As a rule once you achieve in-group status with somebody you have to really work to lose it, that matters much more than the walls that would have kept you out, and those biases will generally shift over time to justify your place in the in-group. What most of us really want is normalcy, not sameness.

What seems strange to me is that the most vehemently anti-trans people I've ever met were feminists I met in college, though most of those were the radical "let's kill all the men" types who nobody likes anyway.

This Muffin (http://thepunchlineismachismo.com/archives/811) seems relevant.

Oh my god that's so cute it hurts.

Lady Serpentine

2012-10-28, 03:24 PM

This Muffin (http://thepunchlineismachismo.com/archives/811) seems relevant.

Actually, there are good reasons not to put all of that in a muffin - first, the flavors wouldn't all go together (carrot being the big one that would throw off the secondary ingredients for the other primary components), and second, the cooking times/proper temperatures would be different.

(Yes, I know that's probably not actually the point. :smalltongue:)

gunnar11

2012-10-28, 03:28 PM

Really? Do you mean that somebody who doesn't have romantic inclinations should be celibate? That seems like a strange thing to find disturbing. I'm not picking at you, I just don't understand :smallredface:

Don't worry, I was thinking the same.

And I'm not picking at anyone, but I do feel kind of insulted. I'm what classifies as a 'sexually active aromantic', and as such, I disturb you, SiuiS?
But if I misread, please say so, with my chaotic mind, anything is possible :smalltongue:

Kindablue

2012-10-28, 03:50 PM

Really? Do you mean that somebody who doesn't have romantic inclinations should be celibate? That seems like a strange thing to find disturbing. I'm not picking at you, I just don't understand :smallredface:
I always thought that being a "sexually active aromantic" was the whole point of being a twentysomething.

(Also hi! You have the best avatar!)

Oddly enough, I haven't seen any trans hate from anyone I wouldn't expect it from; the same guys who would mock redheads, blacks an homosexuals. So I probably have a painful shock coming real soon.
Scientific skeptics tend not to coddle people who they think are deluded, and some of them don't see the evidence that gender dysphoria is any different from an eating disorder; they think it can be fixed in a few months with some counseling sessions and a support group, and that transitioning is just people not accepting who they really are. I wouldn't even call it a prevalent opinion among skeptics, but it is still a controversial issue in a group that tends to be very tolerant.

Coidzor

2012-10-28, 03:54 PM

Really? Do you mean that somebody who doesn't have romantic inclinations should be celibate? That seems like a strange thing to find disturbing. I'm not picking at you, I just don't understand :smallredface:

I think the emphasis is on the complete inability to experience love in this capacity without the (usual?) complete inability to find someone else desirable.

I have to admit, I find it to be more of a quandrary than what gives rise to asexual or transsexual individuals.

It's different from simply not getting attached easily or having a sex life while not having really found someone that one clicked on beyond the physical.

Don't worry, I was thinking the same.

And I'm not picking at anyone, but I do feel kind of insulted. I'm what classifies as a 'sexually active aromantic', and as such, I disturb you, SiuiS?

If you're sexually active then why did you class yourself as asexual? :smallconfused:

Or did I miss some kind of time lapse? :smallconfused:

Scientific skeptics tend not to coddle people who they think are deluded, and some of them don't see the evidence that gender dysphoria is any different from an eating disorder; they think it can be fixed in a few months with some counseling sessions and a support group, and that transitioning is just people not accepting who they really are. I wouldn't even call it a prevalent opinion among skeptics, but it is still a controversial issue in a group that tends to be very tolerant.

It's awfully funny how they're skeptics and refuse to acknowledge the evidence that it doesn't work and also won't bother to look into the history of it.

You'd think half an hour's research and a good ten to fifteen minute write up would have sorted that out.

Asta Kask

2012-10-28, 03:56 PM

Oh, and going out with Rosie Palm and her five daughter does not count - at least two people have to be involved.

gunnar11

2012-10-28, 04:06 PM

If you're sexually active than why did you class yourself as asexual? :smallconfused:

Or did I miss some kind of time lapse? :smallconfused:

First of all: Then, not than
Second: No, you didn't miss anything :smalltongue:

And most importantly: When you're a 15 year old boy, living in The Netherlands, you don't know any more terms than hetero-, homo-, bi- and asexual. There's no 'romantics' or genderdysforsia (although I did know what genderdysforsia was, I didn't know there was hetero-, homo-, etc- romantic.)

Nix Nihila

2012-10-28, 04:07 PM

I think the emphasis is on the complete inability to experience love in this capacity without the (usual?) complete inability to find someone else desirable.

I have to admit, I find it to be more of a quandrary than what gives rise to asexual or transsexual individuals.

It's different from simply not getting attached easily or having a sex life while not having really found someone that one clicked on beyond the physical.

If you're sexually active than why did you class yourself as asexual? :smallconfused:

Personally, I don't see how that's any more strange than someone who lusts after people who they don't love, but who has experienced romantic attraction before. But I suppose that's just me.

And I got the impression that Gunnar was attempting to convey the concept of being aromantic without knowing the word. But I will let them speak to that.

Kindablue

2012-10-28, 04:33 PM

Oh, and going out with Rosie Palm and her five daughter does not count - at least two people have to be involved.

They have to be people?

Asta Kask

2012-10-28, 04:39 PM

They have to be people?

For the purposes of this thread, yes.

gunnar11

2012-10-28, 04:48 PM

Personally, I don't see how that's any more strange than someone who lusts after people who they don't love, but who has experienced romantic attraction before. But I suppose that's just me.

And I got the impression that Gunnar was attempting to convey the concept of being aromantic without knowing the word. But I will let them speak to that.

Exactly.

Untill 2 days ago I didn't know the word, let alone 3 years ago, when I 'declared' myself asexual.

Lady Serpentine

2012-10-28, 04:50 PM

First of all: Then, not than
Second: No, you didn't miss anything :smalltongue:

And most importantly: When you're a 15 year old boy, living in The Netherlands, you don't know any more terms than hetero-, homo-, bi- and asexual. There's no 'romantics' or genderdysforsia (although I did know what genderdysforsia was, I didn't know there was hetero-, homo-, etc- romantic.)

You are now a victim of Muphry's Law - it's dysphoria, not dysforsia. And also, I'm pretty sure that it's just dysphoria, or at least if it is "genderdysphoria", that should be two words. :smallsmile:

Kindablue

2012-10-28, 04:59 PM

For the purposes of this thread, yes.

I've been doing it wrong for so long. :smallfrown:

You are now a victim of Muphry's Law - it's dysphoria, not dysforsia. And also, I'm pretty sure that it's just dysphoria, or at least if it is "genderdysphoria", that should be two words. :smallsmile:

To be fair, dysforsia is a much cooler sounding word.

Lady Serpentine

2012-10-28, 05:18 PM

To be fair, dysforsia is a much cooler sounding word.

True. Now we just need to come up with a meaning for it.

Saskia

2012-10-28, 05:23 PM

(Also hi! You have the best avatar!)
Thanks! :smallsmile:

f you're sexually active than why did you class yourself as asexual? :smallconfused:

Asexual and aromantic are not synonymous, though. Not feeling romantic attachment is different from not feeling sexual desire.

It's awfully funny how they're skeptics and refuse to acknowledge the evidence that it doesn't work and also won't bother to look into the history of it.

You'd think half an hour's research and a good ten to fifteen minute write up would have sorted that out.

A half-hour of research and fifteen minutes of write up are not how science works. No, not even soft sciences. That's how we got people like Freud and his entertaining, infuriating, sometimes accurate but mostly garbage analyses on sexuality. It's not actually even refusing to acknowledge in most cases. Sure there are some bad scientists, and a lot of them are in social sciences where poor methodology is slightly easier to get away with (if you don't do work for a good university or try to publish in tier 1-2 journals anyway), but most of the time what they say is something to the effect of "I'm not convinced" rather than "That's not true". Most of the ones who make the vacuous positive claim that it is not true are the ones paid by unscrupulous groups anyway.

Studies regarding gender and sexuality are rarely unbiased because frankly the information gained on what makes people gay/straight/cis/asexual/etc hasn't got much practical application, even in any potential foreseeable future. This means that studies done on the subject are almost always either undergrad or graduate studies done for grades (and often have serious methodological flaws), or are done by independent groups like the Family Research Council or some other agency with an explicit stated agenda, in which case the authenticity of the data itself cannot be trusted (even if that group is pro-gay/whatever), and STILL there are often massive flaws because they don't hire proper researchers to learn about a phenomenon, they hire interns to collate data and get a guy with a "degree" from a diploma mill or even a legit degree from an unrelated field to say OH YEAH I'm Doctor Such and such and this is legit stuff, yo. When a scientist says "I'm not convinced" it doesn't always mean "That's a load of horsefeathers."

There is, in reality, a distressingly small amount of legitimate scientific work done on the subjects of sexuality and gender identity, and consensus in the community is somewhere between "it would be cool if we could get the funding" and "if there's even a small environmental component to be demonstrated it poses serious ethical problems, so it may be best to leave Pandora's box shut because any fuel the haters get is not worth the potential benefits."

In proper science, ethics influences the methodology but it does not and cannot influence the results. If the results show or can even be skewed to show any slight glimpse of legitimacy of anti-whoever people, they will be abused to the fullest extent possible.

I don't know that transsexualism is entirely innate. I don't know that I would be straight and cisgendered if I had grown up in a different environment. I strongly suspect both of these are true, that I would always be straight and always feel like a woman and have no reason to suspect a trans woman would feel differently if her conditions were different, but it would be dishonest of me to claim knowledge of something for which I can't even propose a test. That's the mindset of at least 90% of scientists who consider themselves "skeptical" of currently accepted hypotheses regarding sexuality and gender identity, and then it gets skewed by unscrupulous people to pretend that there's some great controversy within the social sciences about something that's hardly meaningful in the face of, say, increasing violence and dehumanization trends in modern societies. The controversy that exists is scientific in nature and exists only because there's so little data, it's not about whether it's okay to be trans or gay or whatever, it's about whether environment has a significant impact or if it's all (or almost all) inborn.

Lord Raziere

2012-10-28, 05:28 PM

True. Now we just need to come up with a meaning for it.

…..a place in the Star Wars universe where the Force itself seems to be malfunctional maybe? dys-Force-ia.

only you know, without any Dark Side Shenanigans.

gunnar11

2012-10-28, 05:30 PM

You are now a victim of Muphry's Law - it's dysphoria, not dysforsia. And also, I'm pretty sure that it's just dysphoria, or at least if it is "genderdysphoria", that should be two words. :smallsmile:
Aww, damn!
Sorry, it's just that in my country it's written as: genderdysforsie, so I just translated it very poorly.
I will do better in the future :smallbiggrin:

To be fair, dysforsia is a much cooler sounding word.
Isn't it?
:smallbiggrin:

True. Now we just need to come up with a meaning for it.
This made me laugh.

So, the meaning: It must have to do with genderdysphoria, but with something different or extra...
Hmmm:smallconfused:

Astrella

2012-10-28, 05:33 PM

True. Now we just need to come up with a meaning for it.

Well, it is spelled 'dysforie' in Dutch. :smalltongue:

*smart stuff*

Yar, this is why research into sexuality / gender identity is something that sorta makes me feel a bit uncomfortable; because with the current state of society there's very much a risk of bias / misuse of results.

And I guess there's a bit more of a general annoyance at the whole "is it a choice vs. is it not a choice" because in my eyes that doesn't matter at all. People are free to chose who they want to be involved with / what they want to do with their bodies anyways, or should be able to.

(Which is coincidentally why I feel trans women very much have a place in feminism. (Aside from the whole "they're women so duh"). Body policing of trans women (and trans people in general) is very comparable to body policing going on with regards to birth control and pregnancy etc... They're similar issues and should be fought together.

Coidzor

2012-10-28, 05:36 PM

Personally, I don't see how that's any more strange than someone who lusts after people who they don't love, but who has experienced romantic attraction before. But I suppose that's just me.

I just don't see it. :smallconfused: The relative sample sizes of people you'd grow up with and be raised by should lead to a greater understanding of people who fall in love after noticing someone they find attractive enough to meet and talk to. As one small subset of the examples of how individuals can be sexually attracted to someone they do not love.

Though, really, that you're reacting to it on the level of strangeness indicates that my meaning was perhaps unclear and may have been too easily construed as some form of moral judgment. I don't care to label them or judge them at this point in time and "strangeness" or "weirdness" are irrelevant to my lack of mechanical and metaphysical understanding.

In the words of Pewdiepie, "I DON'T CAAAAARE!"

The closest examples that I've encountered in my personal life to someone who is incapable of experiencing love while being a sexual entity are individuals who have matched up almost exactly with the stereotype of the girl with "daddy issues," which I feel safe in feeling is almost assuredly not the same thing, or at least, I've seen no reason to believe that aromanticism is the result of trauma, though, I admit, I've avoided that stance in part deliberately because I feel it's unwise to go to such a stance without ample evidence.

I've known several transgender individuals and even had relationships with people who were wrestling with the question of their gender identity and who may be wearing the genderqueer label now. I've seen the abstracts from studies that have compared transgender individuals' neurochemistry to cisgender individuals, and I've read up on free martins and chimeras.

I've even known a smattering of asexual individuals and one demisexual individual who had previously thought that he was asexual. I've been able to get inside of their heads and pick their brains and see their writings even if some of them are militantly hostile and obsessed with the idea that asexuality is the future salvation of the species.

There are no equivalent, non-incendiary materials that I have found or heard tell of that one could take as a good source on sexual & aromantic individuals, and with many of those who are self-reportedly sexual & aromantic being very young, it's a bit jaded to say, but how many of them are genuine rather than still figuring themselves out is questionable.

And I got the impression that Gunnar was attempting to convey the concept of being aromantic without knowing the word. But I will let them speak to that.

That was my impression of the situation as well, though my confusion stems from the word choice as being basically the opposite of what was wanted...

And most importantly: When you're a 15 year old boy, living in The Netherlands, you don't know any more terms than hetero-, homo-, bi- and asexual. There's no 'romantics' or genderdysforsia (although I did know what genderdysforsia was, I didn't know there was hetero-, homo-, etc- romantic.)

You don't need to know special terms to know not to say "I don't want to have sex with anyone" when you mean "I don't feel romantic attraction or love for anyone but I'm sexually attracted to X and Y and Z." :smalltongue:

It doesn't take that much longer to say than giving out a single word and expecting that to suffice and it takes less time than having to explain the term as is so often necessary due to the differing personal definitions of terms and the need for explanation and clarification.

Maybe I'm just hypersensitive because it's a pet peeve of mine, but I'd swear that I run into this sentiment that one needs a special term to condense paragraphs of exposition when a general term with a sentence of qualification will suffice and communicate the idea more clearly. :smallconfused:

PairO'Dice Lost

2012-10-28, 05:37 PM

…..a place in the Star Wars universe where the Force itself seems to be malfunctional maybe? dys-Force-ia.

only you know, without any Dark Side Shenanigans.

So, either the planet Myrkr where the Force-suppressing ysalimiri (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ysalamir) hang out in large numbers, or the Crseih Station in orbit around a crystal star (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Crseih) that does the same, then. Got it.

Coidzor

2012-10-28, 05:42 PM

A half-hour of research and fifteen minutes of write up are not how science works. No, not even soft sciences.

I doubt that the people in the skeptic community who are bigoted in their attitudes towards trans individuals are scientists carrying out research into gender, gender dysphoria, or anything else that would intersect with this topic at hand. So that's rather irrelevant to pointing out to them that attempting to "cure" Trans people has proven impossible, historically, even when they've gone and done extremely immoral things like torturing small children.

Anyone who is not a bigot would have to admit that it's not as simple as attending a nice group therapy session.

Asexual and aromantic are not synonymous, though. Not feeling romantic attachment is different from not feeling sexual desire.

:smallconfused: I know they're not synonymous. I have said as much.

That's why I asked gunnar11 the question as to why he claimed the one when he meant the other. :smallannoyed::smallconfused:

Lady Serpentine

2012-10-28, 05:51 PM

So, either the planet Myrkr where the Force-suppressing ysalimiri (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ysalamir) hang out in large numbers, or the Crseih Station in orbit around a crystal star (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Crseih) that does the same, then. Got it.

Or Korriban, which, as I recall, has enough problems that even people who are definitively Dark Side have trouble using the Force properly there, and also has some of the nastier Force-resistant creatures.

Of course, Korriban probably falls under the heading of "Dark Side shenanigans", but I'm not sure why that was an issue in the first place...

Nix Nihila

2012-10-28, 06:16 PM

I just don't see it. :smallconfused: The relative sample sizes of people you'd grow up with and be raised by should lead to a greater understanding of people who fall in love after noticing someone they find attractive enough to meet and talk to. As one small subset of the examples of how individuals can be sexually attracted to someone they do not love.

Though, really, that you're reacting to it on the level of strangeness indicates that my meaning was perhaps unclear and may have been too easily construed as some form of moral judgment. I don't care to label them or judge them at this point in time and "strangeness" or "weirdness" are irrelevant to my lack of mechanical and metaphysical understanding.

In the words of Pewdiepie, "I DON'T CAAAAARE!"

The closest examples that I've encountered in my personal life to someone who is incapable of experiencing love while being a sexual entity are individuals who have matched up almost exactly with the stereotype of the girl with "daddy issues," which I feel safe in feeling is almost assuredly not the same thing, or at least, I've seen no reason to believe that aromanticism is the result of trauma, though, I admit, I've avoided that stance in part deliberately because I feel it's unwise to go to such a stance without ample evidence.

I've known several transgender individuals and even had relationships with people who were wrestling with the question of their gender identity and who may be wearing the genderqueer label now. I've seen the abstracts from studies that have compared transgender individuals' neurochemistry to cisgender individuals, and I've read up on free martins and chimeras.

I've even known a smattering of asexual individuals and one demisexual individual who had previously thought that he was asexual. I've been able to get inside of their heads and pick their brains and see their writings even if some of them are militantly hostile and obsessed with the idea that asexuality is the future salvation of the species.

There are no equivalent, non-incendiary materials that I have found or heard tell of that one could take as a good source on sexual & aromantic individuals, and with many of those who are self-reportedly sexual & aromantic being very young, it's a bit jaded to say, but how many of them are genuine rather than still figuring themselves out is questionable.

Ah, I see. Yes, I think I misconstrued your meaning. It's admittedly something which I can get a bit defensive about, as many people are rather unpleasant about the whole thing.

It is a possibility that I just haven't found "the right person" yet, though I do find it at least a little irritating when people tell me so. But mostly because it usually comes across as rather patronizing. I'm perfectly open to falling in love, but I have no real desire to go looking for it (outside of a small bit of curiosity as to what romantic love is like, though I imagine it is fairly similar to the kinds of love which I have experienced).

Saskia

2012-10-28, 07:12 PM

I doubt that the people in the skeptic community who are bigoted in their attitudes towards trans individuals are scientists carrying out research into gender, gender dysphoria, or anything else that would intersect with this topic at hand. So that's rather irrelevant to pointing out to them that attempting to "cure" Trans people has proven impossible, historically, even when they've gone and done extremely immoral things like torturing small children.

Anyone who is not a bigot would have to admit that it's not as simple as attending a nice group therapy session.

You're talking about the kind of ignorant people who think all it takes to be converted to TheGay is some guy wearing a brightly colored scarf yelling WOLOLO at you from across the street, or listening to too much Lady Gaga. That's not a scientist. That's not a scientific hypothesis. The only things holding that barely coherent idea together is Blu-Tack and paranoia. I'm not talking about those people or their ideas because I don't like saying mean things and they're not worth the keystrokes anyway.

I'm really sorry for offending you with my previous post, but I just really don't know where I was unspecific. Like I explained, the bigots are rarely actually scientists, but let me state clearly that bigotry is unacceptable and I make no apology for it, I'm just trying to explain that when a scientists says "I'm unconvinced that sexuality cannot be altered," that does not mean "I hate gay people." "If sexuality is plastic, gay and trans people should be fixed" is also not what that means. I'm not talking about and thus not supporting the people who get their conclusions out of a magic book and then build hypotheses around them, that is not science and those are not scientists. I'm talking about people who perform the operation the correct way, looking at data and proposing from there a logical hypothesis that might be tested. Most of the scientists who say they're skeptical of the idea that sexuality/gender identity are innate don't say that because they're bigoted, and most of those who say that are also not bigoted anyway. If a trans man can change his sexual identity to be cisgendered, then a cis man can change his sexual identity to become transgendered. That's not a bigoted statement. People making the assumption that plasticity of identity or sexuality means that gays should be changed is exactly what I was talking about when I said most scientists in the fields don't think the studies should even be done. Even the lion's share of the people who suspect that they have large environmental components thing it's dangerous because they don't want people to have the slightest whiff of legitimacy for their bigotry. Let me say again, NOBODY with half a brain is saying that you can take a magic GayMeNot pill or be inoculated against or cured of TheGay by therapy or torture. Nobody said that, and comparing people who happen to think that a human trait is plastic (like all the rest of human traits) to the freaking Inquisition is what those of a gentle disposition would call "reaching."

That some few highly motivated people can willfully change their sexual orientation over time seems to be true, which suggests that it's at least a partially plastic personality trait. Due to the ridiculously low rates of "cure" for homosexuality or transsexualism we don't know what factors contribute to such a transition for such a highly motivated individual, either. The proposal that somebody could, with training, change their sexual orientation or gender identity is not bigotry, it's proposing a hypothesis that something is possible, and there is a world of difference between descriptive and prescriptive statements. I can stab my little corgi with a kitchen knife, but just because I declare that I am physically able to do something does not mean I wish to or that I think I should perform that action. Only ignorant people propose that such a change would be as simple as group therapy or just asking the genie in the sky, and again, just because it might be possible to change sexual orientation does not mean that there's a problem with being gay any more than it means there's a problem with being straight.

Also your statement that somebody cannot alter their sexual identity or preference is just not supported. Certainly it's not supported well enough to say that it's outright impossible. Torture doesn't do anything for anybody except make them say whatever is necessary to make the pain stop, and there are mountain of studies demonstrating that negative reinforcement is generally ineffective compared with positive reinforcement and even counterproductive in the long run. We don't fully understand the mechanics of sexuality and gender identity so to say that they're concrete is just not something that any honest scientist could declare. Saying "torture doesn't work" is like saying "lead doesn't float." Sure, it might theoretically float in liquified radium, but really? The fact that more primitive and superstitious people did awful things to each other in the name of food doesn't make eating bad, it also doesn't make the proposal that somebody who wanted to alter their sexual orientation might be able to do it a bad thing, either. Again, descriptive statements of what is or might be possible are not the same as prescriptive statements of what somebody should do. Once more, just because I CAN condition my corgi to wee on the floor of my bedroom does not mean that I should.

There is some circumstantial evidence to support the idea that orientation and identity might be plastic traits. Not much that's very direct, or very strong, but suggested still. Look up Burrhus Skinner's work on operant conditioning and the subsequent work done on operant conditioning in humans. Reactions to stimuli are not the only things we can condition, we can also train volition, even in humans using Skinner's techniques. Love, lust, and gender identity are not quite the same, no, but there are components of volition and reaction in them. Not everybody who proposes an idea on how minds work knows what they're talking about, and just because we think we know how something works doesn't mean that we do.

:smallconfused: I know they're not synonymous. I have said as much.

That's why I asked the man the question as to why he claimed the one when he meant the other. :smallannoyed:

Oh, I'm sorry! I misread.

Coidzor

2012-10-28, 07:40 PM

...Am I writing essays in my sleep again or something? :smallconfused:

I had thought that I never even touched upon sexual preference and reversion "therapy," but if it must be brought up, I'd think the professional associations finally openly acknowledging the general lack of utility should again demonstrate that it is not so simple and cut-and-dried, further emphasizing that there's something more than a healthy respect for the spirit of inquiry and rejection of superstition and tradition going on. You know, to satisfy the laity and uninvolved. Or, at least, last I had looked into it, the set of "skeptics" did not fall wholly or even mostly into the set of "professional scientists," even if I don't really like the cludgy feel of that last term.

Even if it were simple and reversion therapy genuinely and uniformly worked in a manner consistent with its marketing, and even if that horrible, bigoted view of trans individuals was true, there is still no justification or basis for abuse, harassment, or other mistreatment, especially by those in a community that purports to reject the usual reasons for such abuses, like ignorance and superstition.

So I still find it a mote of black comedy and wholly inappropriate for it to be as much of a contentious issue in that community as it is. :smalltongue:

Ceric

2012-10-28, 07:56 PM

Saskia, I love your posts.

gunnar11

2012-10-28, 08:08 PM

[SPOILER]
You don't need to know special terms to know not to say "I don't want to have sex with anyone" when you mean "I don't feel romantic attraction or love for anyone but I'm sexually attracted to X and Y and Z." :smalltongue:

It doesn't take that much longer to say than giving out a single word and expecting that to suffice and it takes less time than having to explain the term as is so often necessary due to the differing personal definitions of terms and the need for explanation and clarification.

Maybe I'm just hypersensitive because it's a pet peeve of mine, but I'd swear that I run into this sentiment that one needs a special term to condense paragraphs of exposition when a general term with a sentence of qualification will suffice and communicate the idea more clearly. :smallconfused:

People don't need a term for everything. People want a term for everything.
Sure, you can describe everything, but it will lead to confusion. That's also the reason why people think in boxes.
It's easy: if I tell someone I'm asexual, what will their minds do?
Asexual: Someone who isn't interested in having a partner.

If I instead talk to them:
-I like to get involved in sexual activities with both genders if I find them attractive, but I don't love them and thus won't have a relationship with them.
-Wait, how can you find some people attractive and others less attractive if you can't fall in love with someone? Isn't a body a body? Don't you just need something to be able to use your needs on, instead of a carefully selected guy/girl?
-No. Think about it. You like girls with big boobs and a nice ass, right? Well, it's the same for me, only with guys as well as girls. You don't fall in love with every girl you see that has a nice body. I don't fall in love at all with a girl or guy with a nice body.
-Wait, I don't follow, are you bisexual or asexual, cuz you're not making any sense now.

We get that result. (which actually leads to the first case)
And their minds are even more scrambled:
He's asexual but with cravings for sex (bluntly spoken) which actually makes him bisexual but he can't love, so that would make him asexual again...

I prefer the first action, where I tell people I'm asexual and they understand I can't fall in love, than the second that costs so much energy and time to explain properly.
Sure, for you it may seem easy as pie to explain this to, but others don't understand it that easy.

I prefer people to think I'm asexual than some beast filled with lust and no love.

By the way, that was a conversation I had just two hours ago.

:smallconfused: I know they're not synonymous. I have said as much.

That's why I asked gunnar11 the question as to why he claimed the one when he meant the other. :smallannoyed::smallconfused:
BECAUSE
it is easier to tell people the one than explain the other. Specially when you only know the term Asexual, but not really any other terms.
The group matters too. A 15-17 year old boy only knows the basics:
Asexual: Doesn't like people
Heterosexual: Likes other. Are good
Homosexual: Likes the same gender. Mostly weird
Bisexual: Likes both genders. Bisexual woman? Hot. Bisexual man? Ew.
Everything else: Even weirder.

that's it. There are no variables. You're one of those 5.
Go on, use a fancy poll on a class or something. Put other terms in there:

-What characterizes a gender dysphoric person?
They won't know

-(put in a story about a bisexual aromantic) What is this person?
Answer: Almost everyone will answer either bisexual or asexual. Maybe, if you're really lucky 1 will answer 'loveless' or something.

It's when people get older that this changes. They start to understand it's more complex than that, and they can deduce most of the terms if they ever read them.

Edit: Just read my post again. Sorry I'm writing so angrily, but I don't get why it's so difficult to understand what I do/am. I thought you guys would understand it, but I guess that's not true.

turkishproverb

2012-10-28, 08:51 PM

Saskia, I love your posts.

So...you're textosexual? :smallbiggrin::smalltongue:

Heliomance

2012-10-28, 08:54 PM

Does anyone else ever wonder if maybe they're playing at being LGBT*?

Yup. Most of the time during my male phases, tbh. I feel kinda awkward turning up to LGBT soc at the moment; I don't feel like I have the right to be there.

ION, I'm kinda tempted to do this for Hallowe'en:

http://cdn.lolchamp.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Can-anyone-guess-this-Person-gender.jpg

Unfortunately, I have neither the makeup nor the makeup know-how to pull it off.

Nix Nihila

2012-10-28, 09:54 PM

Edit: Just read my post again. Sorry I'm writing so angrily, but I don't get why it's so difficult to understand what I do/am. I thought you guys would understand it, but I guess that's not true.

Sorry! I don't think anyone intended to ostracize or offend.

In the future, could we perhaps try to avoid "complete disclosure" about this sort of thing? I don't think this thread is the right place to discuss which particular groups of people make us uneasy.

bluewind95

2012-10-28, 10:00 PM

If you're sexually active then why did you class yourself as asexual? :smallconfused:

I am not sexually active, but I'm not against it. My reason is that asexuality is a spectrum too! (Where's Serpentine's chart? That was so useful to explain this)

I'm not attracted physically to people, but since I'm hetero-romantic, well, there's more than physical attraction.

Arti3

2012-10-28, 10:06 PM

I am not sexually active, but I'm not against it. My reason is that asexuality is a spectrum too! (Where's Serpentine's chart? That was so useful to explain this)

I'm not attracted physically to people, but since I'm hetero-romantic, well, there's more than physical attraction.

I believe some people call this graysexual, it's a play on asexual.

Zorg

2012-10-28, 10:44 PM

Edit: Just read my post again. Sorry I'm writing so angrily, but I don't get why it's so difficult to understand what I do/am. I thought you guys would understand it, but I guess that's not true.

Most of us do get you - thus why we don't feel the need to get into a discussion about it. At least we haven't gotten to full on ten-thousand word essays disecting each other's posts line by line yet (aka the GitP Special).

Coidzor has the tact of a cement truck sometimes, and can be quite blunt when questioning things - I seriously doubt any offense was meant (though I completely understand that the outright questioning of your self-identity even after you explained it is upsetting).

noparlpf

2012-10-28, 10:48 PM

Geez, I go on a trip for three days and I come back to eight pages of thread.

This is rather interesting. (http://benjaminrosenbaum.com/cgi-bin/mt/mt-view.cgi/1/entry/976) It's a look at how we perceive gender subconsciously, that actually arose by accident.

Pretty cool.

Because Pluto has not cleared out its neighborhood. (http://www.astronomycast.com/2006/09/plutos-planetary-identity-crisis/)

The link goes to the first Astronomy Cast podcast episode, and I can highly recommend other episodes as well.

That's really neat. Hadn't read that bit before.
I'll also just throw in the fact that we've found another dwarf planet that's significantly larger than Pluto and still doesn't qualify as a planet. (I'm tired from catching up on thread so if you care which one it is just check Wikipedia, unless somebody already mentioned this.)

I'm guessing, based on sheer mass, everything in between. We would knock it into a deeply elliptical orbit such that it resembled a comets path enough to leave a trail and be affected the sun. Unless you're saying there is absolutely nothing whatsoever in Jupiters... Atmosphere? Is it even atmosphere, I mean the entirel thing is gaseous... Anyway. Nothing at all in its composition that would burn? Or is hydrogen becomin helium atrictly a matter of pressure and not temperature whatsoever?

Admittedly, I'm working from the perspective of "fire burns things. The sun is fire. Ergo ye sun burns things."

I've read that the gas giants theoretically have solid cores, and just have massive atmospheres ranging from liquid to supercritical fluid to gas depending on the depths and pressure and stuff. Fluid mechanics is some crazy stuff (that I know hardly anything about yet).

Does anyone else ever wonder if maybe they're playing at being LGBT*?

Well, let's just check out Musashi's response first because she's in a similar boat.

Yes.
I've seen people, otherwise involved to a very high degree in LGBT matters, discard demisexuality as nothing more but a word heterosexuals use to invite themselves in (because we know there can't be demisexual pan/biromantics, or demisexual homoromantics, etc). Followed, of course, on brief but completely unnecessary moments of doubt from me.
Jury's still out on the "heteromantic" part, but I consider my libido is sufficiently low and specific for me to not qualify as an "hetero with standards". If I had extreme standards, I would still, y'know, have people I'm attracted to upon which I could apply these standards.

Hell, when I first joined this series of thread, I did it so because BF is FtM; it did not occur to me at first that since my sexuality does not fit the norm, I could technically be counted as part of the community. Beside, because of the nature of my libido, all I know is that I'm not homoromantic. I might be heteromantic, or panromantic/biromantic. Pinpointing the -romantic part of my orientation would require further testing, but unless my sexuality fluctuates any further from strict asexuality, said testing will likely never have a chance to happen. I'm fine with that, though my scientific side is disappointed no experimenting is going to take place any time soon.

That's similar to my experience. I go through a lot of "am I just straight and really misanthropic or something?" Doesn't help that lots of people don't believe in demisexuality or grey asexuality or x-romantic asexuality or whatever. Explaining it to people is weird...a lot of the time people are like, oh, that's really sweet, you're like the perfect guy. (XDD That's a laugh. For several reasons. But seriously, I've had that response the last half-dozen times I explained it to anybody.) And trying to explain my sexuality to my counselor last week was fairly futile. I think I'll try again next time. (Though I'm pretty sure we're cancelling tomorrow's appointment due to the school being closed down for the hurricane aimed right at us; I'm totally cool biking out there in sheeting rain and 80mph winds but I doubt she wants to come in.)

So, it's disappointing to see how much trans-hate there is over on even the Queerty comments section. I may not have always seen why the need to surgically transition is so strong in so many people (truth be told it's still kind of baffling to me :smallconfused:) but I've never seen why people shouldn't be acknowledged for who they are, or should be shamed for it, or should have barriers erected against them. But even on a site dedicated to non-heteronormativity it seems like trans people always get the short end of the stick.

And so, to all the trans people reading this, you get big hugs. I'm right behind you.

*Hugs* for your earlier post I tried to quote that didn't go through.
That stinks. The battle between the "you're only trans if you transition" and the "you're only trans if you have all the operations" and the "guys what the hell are we arguing about this for" groups is pretty common and also very upsetting. Many people seem to have this weird idea that they need to validate their own experience by putting down others'. And the psychiatrists say I lack empathy. :smallsigh:

So... if straight tea is without milk and sugar, what ingredients do you have in LGBTA tea?

Shouldn't Asexuals have nothing added to their tea? Unless they're romantics of some sort, in which case I have to ask - what is the tea additive essence of romance?

I take my tea black. Really black. I heat a pot of water to a simmer, add four-to-six tea bags, put a lid on, raise it to a high boil for ten or fifteen minutes, then remove it from the heat and let it cool for another ten minutes or so before taking the tea bags out. That makes about four cups of tea. Although on different stoves sometimes it comes out badly; that process is fine-tuned to my electric teapot. Making tea from tea leaves also works differently, but I can't usually find or afford tea leaves. But yeah, when I see normal people make black tea it's usually fairly translucent, but mine is really dark. I've even seen people make "tea" by dipping the tea bag in for less than thirty seconds. That's basically water to me.
As for coffee, why would you ruin something like that? I can eat coffee ice cream, espresso chocolate, even straight coffee beans, but as soon as it's brewed to coffee, I can't stand the flavour for some reason.

Serpentine

2012-10-28, 11:22 PM

I would have expected that anyone who's ever been physically attracted to someone, or had happyfuntime activities with someone, that they weren't in love with, would understand the concept of sexual aromantic. And I would expect that to be the vast majority of people.
Speaking personally, with my very-vaguely very-tentatively don't-really-care identity of mostly-heterosexual demiromantic*, I divide love up into 4 categories: familial love, sexual love, friend/platonic love, and romantic love. Usually familial love is only really compatible with platonic love, but there's been at least one situation where it's mixed up with the other two, and that felt pretty weird (note: not actually an incestuous situation. It was with a friend whom I love like a little brother, but also find pretty damn sexy-cute (*waves at* o/ You know who you are :smallwink:)).
I very frequently experience strong feelings of sexual and platonic love for people I have no romantic inclinations at all. More often than not this leads to trouble and misery, as I get accused of leading someone on, lying about my feelings, and/or finding myself in a Relationship or Relationship-like-relationship with someone I don't love and never will and therefore know it will end at some point. There's that whole "two out of three ain't bad, but really it totally is the worst" thing: I love you with all my heart as a friend, I love you with all my body as a lover, but I just can't conjure that spark of romance. It's not your fault, and it's not mine, it just is.
Anyway. Point being... point being... Oh yeah. Point being, I don't get how anyone who doesn't fall in love with every person they're attracted to can struggle with the idea of someone never falling in love with anyone but still being attracted to some. The reverse seems weirder to me, but I still more or less get the idea.

Also: *high-fives Saskia* o/\o I like your style.

*I originally typed that "demoromantic". Try before you buy?

Irish Musician

2012-10-29, 12:21 AM

*Lays Down on the Floor in a Shaming*
OH GitP GODS!!! WE ARE SORRY FOR HAVING OFFENDED THEE, PLEASE DON'T HURT US!! :smallbiggrin:

Socratov

2012-10-29, 02:50 AM

snip.

In the vein of complete disclosure, sexually active aromantics disturb me.

snip.
Like a certain male person portrayed by a gay actor in a series that is usually described as the new friends? The Answer is Barney Stinson, analagous to any twenteysomething with his private parts on fire and the desire to woo the ladies with most impossible schemes

snip
I know, right? And very inclusive despite the name. It's quite nice that the Cap is so pro-LGBT and perfectly secure in his masculinity.

snipQUOTE]
I liekd the comic, but how can respecting some person's beliefs be detrimental to someone's masculinity (or for that matter femininity)? I mean, can someone just explain me becuase I seriously don't get it? Im my opinion, if anything, it makes you more of a man if you can respect other people enough to comfotable with yourself then when you need your environment to acknowledge the fact you are a man...
[QUOTE=gunnar11;14129686]First of all: Then, not than
Second: No, you didn't miss anything :smalltongue:

And most importantly: When you're a 15 year old boy, living in The Netherlands, you don't know any more terms than hetero-, homo-, bi- and asexual. There's no 'romantics' or genderdysforsia (although I did know what genderdysforsia was, I didn't know there was hetero-, homo-, etc- romantic.)
Welcome young fellow Dutchman! Besides, what you say it true, people don't know. However, if you explain it to them in a calm and easy manner they will (it's not like it's rocket science). However, when I discovered the fact that there were more flavours then those five (which are famous anyway) it kinda felt as if something very easy got replaced by quantum mechanics. After some explanation it again seemed rather simple. Beware, you will have to explain a lot of times...

snip

*I originally typed that "demoromantic". Try before you buy?

ehm, is that the sexuality where you're in to one-eyed people who speak with a scottish accent, have a dark skin and tend to blow stuff up and hits stuff with a whiskybottle? :smallamused::smalltongue:

oh, and hugs for Saksia for being new to this thread

Lentrax

2012-10-29, 02:58 AM

*I originally typed that "demoromantic". Try before you buy?

Isn't that the name for the group of people that is really into trying new things?
No? How about this: Demoromantic. We're the Shareware version of love.

turkishproverb

2012-10-29, 03:06 AM

So the kind of love Bender has?:smallamused:

Arachu

2012-10-29, 04:00 AM

Had a dream about registering for a driver's license as "male" just now... It was odd, especially considering how the setting looked exactly like an interrogation room. o.o

(After that I wondered how convenient it would be to live near a large city and fell asleep in a Dairy Queen (and I think I ended up on a train/bus/car at some point) , though, so I already feel better. :smalltongue:)

Also thanks for the hugs and sympathies everyone. :smallsmile:

Also; there's a Halloween thingie for my trans youth group next Wednesday so I'm hoping I can bring up the courage to at least get a new top or two to wear.

:smallbiggrin:

I don't know what this is from, but I like it. (http://cheezburger.com/43166209)

Also this is completely irrelevant to this thread but the R'ships thread isn't back yet :cBleeeegh. My mum is (totally not) trying to set me up with a guy she knows. This is awkward enough already. I think he might be interested in me. I am not. Could be wrong - hopefully I am wrong and he's just friendly. I'm just also full of awks and trying to only give off exactly the right sort of signals to avoid awkward conversations and such.
Bonus: he's the closest I have to a friend - or even an acquaintance my age - within a 2+ hour drive.
Just whingin'.

I don't have any advice, but *so many hugs*

It's awfully funny how they're skeptics and refuse to acknowledge the evidence that it doesn't work and also won't bother to look into the history of it.

You'd think half an hour's research and a good ten to fifteen minute write up would have sorted that out.

This is a good point. Skeptics don't believe things they don't have evidence for; transphobes have a confirmation bias.

Saskia, I love your posts.

As do I. :smalltongue: :smallbiggrin:

~Bianca

The Succubus

2012-10-29, 04:07 AM

Isn't that the name for the group of people that is really into trying new things?
No? How about this: Demoromantic. We're the Shareware version of love.

I thought demoromantic was something that only occured in TF2 slash fiction.

Lentrax

2012-10-29, 07:54 AM

I thought demoromantic was something that only occured in TF2 slash fiction.

Well, not just there.

Mina Kobold

2012-10-29, 10:53 AM

It's awfully funny how they're skeptics and refuse to acknowledge the evidence that it doesn't work and also won't bother to look into the history of it.

You'd think half an hour's research and a good ten to fifteen minute write up would have sorted that out.

Sadly, the Sceptics community has had a lot of problems with that lately. Particularly regarding anyone ever mentioning feminism, which really became apparent under the hatred directed at Rebecca Watson. Hopefully we will eventually get better, but it is a long way until the majority lives up to the scepticism that we are supposed to have. ;_;

On a positive note, it seems intersectional feminism (Feminism that tries to work with causes against racism and transphobia, among others) is really getting more popular among sceptics. Yay! ^_^

Saskia, I love your posts.

My sentiments exactly. They are amazing and fascinating posts, wish I had time to write that much about science. :smallsmile:

ION, I'm kinda tempted to do this for Hallowe'en:

http://cdn.lolchamp.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Can-anyone-guess-this-Person-gender.jpg

Unfortunately, I have neither the makeup nor the makeup know-how to pull it off.

I am an amateur at costuming at best, but may I suggest a simplification of the concept? A half-face mask or a split-in-the-middle mask may be a good way to achieve the effect without needing to learn how to do advanced make-up in two days. :smallsmile:

Making the associated hair/wig and clothing more exaggerated might also be a good idea, I think. I really wish I had the chance to do that kind of stuff myself. ^_^'

I would have expected that anyone who's ever been physically attracted to someone, or had happyfuntime activities with someone, that they weren't in love with, would understand the concept of sexual aromantic. And I would expect that to be the vast majority of people.
Speaking personally, with my very-vaguely very-tentatively don't-really-care identity of mostly-heterosexual demiromantic*, I divide love up into 4 categories: familial love, sexual love, friend/platonic love, and romantic love. Usually familial love is only really compatible with platonic love, but there's been at least one situation where it's mixed up with the other two, and that felt pretty weird (note: not actually an incestuous situation. It was with a friend whom I love like a little brother, but also find pretty damn sexy-cute (*waves at* o/ You know who you are :smallwink:)).
I very frequently experience strong feelings of sexual and platonic love for people I have no romantic inclinations at all. More often than not this leads to trouble and misery, as I get accused of leading someone on, lying about my feelings, and/or finding myself in a Relationship or Relationship-like-relationship with someone I don't love and never will and therefore know it will end at some point. There's that whole "two out of three ain't bad, but really it totally is the worst" thing: I love you with all my heart as a friend, I love you with all my body as a lover, but I just can't conjure that spark of romance. It's not your fault, and it's not mine, it just is.
Anyway. Point being... point being... Oh yeah. Point being, I don't get how anyone who doesn't fall in love with every person they're attracted to can struggle with the idea of someone never falling in love with anyone but still being attracted to some. The reverse seems weirder to me, but I still more or less get the idea.

Also: *high-fives Saskia* o/\o I like your style.

*I originally typed that "demoromantic". Try before you buy?

I like that classification, thank you for posting it. ^_^

I think I would be very high on the familial and platonic loves. Sexual love is very much not there, but romantic may be. :3

Demoromantic: Buy the full version to continue the relationship? X3

Asta Kask

2012-10-29, 11:19 AM

Saskia: Lead should float on mercury. I'm such a nerd.

Succubus: I feel demonromantic - could you come over for a a candlelit dinner later? Tell me which window you'll use as entrance - I intend to strew rosepetals on the floor to show the way to the kitchen.

*ahem*

Regarding plasticity/rigidity of LGBTA traits - this is again a red herring. It's fascinating because of what it tells us about the human brain and psyche, but it's utterly irrelevant to the question of LGBTA rights. Let's say that we found a way to alter someone's sexual orientation - so what? It would still be wrong to use it on someone's without their consent (we'd have to watch so that bigoted or well-meaning parents don't use it on their kids, but that's not more complex than saying to parents that they can't cut off a kid's ear).

noparlpf

2012-10-29, 11:25 AM

*ahem*

Regarding plasticity/rigidity of LGBTA traits - this is again a red herring. It's fascinating because of what it tells us about the human brain and psyche, but it's utterly irrelevant to the question of LGBTA rights. Let's say that we found a way to alter someone's sexual orientation - so what? It would still be wrong to use it on someone's without their consent (we'd have to watch so that bigoted or well-meaning parents don't use it on their kids, but that's not more complex than saying to parents that they can't cut off a kid's ear).

Oh yeah, definitely. Bringing up genetic arguments, neurological arguments, any of it, is completely beside the point and actually detracts from the argument in some cases. The point is, people are people are people.

Irish Musician

2012-10-29, 11:53 AM

The point is, people are people are people.

Exactly, as I heard in a movie at some point, though I don't remember which one, "Peoples....is peoples..."

noparlpf

2012-10-29, 11:57 AM

Exactly, as I heard in a movie at some point, though I don't remember which one, "Peoples....is peoples..."

The internet suggests it might have been "The Muppets Take Manhattan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQgfgB-vgT0)".

Kindablue

2012-10-29, 12:02 PM

A half-hour of research and fifteen minutes of write up are not how science works. No, not even soft sciences. That's how we got people like Freud and his entertaining, infuriating, sometimes accurate but mostly garbage analyses on sexuality. It's not actually even refusing to acknowledge in most cases. Sure there are some bad scientists, and a lot of them are in social sciences where poor methodology is slightly easier to get away with (if you don't do work for a good university or try to publish in tier 1-2 journals anyway), but most of the time what they say is something to the effect of "I'm not convinced" rather than "That's not true". Most of the ones who make the vacuous positive claim that it is not true are the ones paid by unscrupulous groups anyway.
I feel like this is just miscommunication. When I said "scientific skepticism" I meant a (mostly American) political/philosophical movement based on empiricism and, well, skepticism. Most stoics fixed shoes or played the organ, and I was talking about them more than I was Zeno, so to speak. While what you say is true in reference to professional scientists, that wasn't what Coidzor was responding to.

In proper science, ethics influences the methodology but it does not and cannot influence the results. If the results show or can even be skewed to show any slight glimpse of legitimacy of anti-whoever people, they will be abused to the fullest extent possible.
Totes. (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/14/science/14skull.html?_r=0)

Irish Musician

2012-10-29, 12:09 PM

The internet suggests it might have been "The Muppets Take Manhattan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQgfgB-vgT0)".

......I love you so much right now........

Absol197

2012-10-29, 01:37 PM

Mina Kobold

2012-10-29, 01:58 PM

Ugh...I'm sorry I haven't been around to be helpful/supportive/silly as often as usual. I'm still having a rough time, apparently.

Being out to my friends and family hasn't changed any of the things I was hoping it would. I've asked both my group of friends and my parents to refer to me using female pronouns, but both groups have either forgotten, or else are too uncomfortable to do it.

The reason why I was so anxious to come out to my parents was because I don't want to be a secret anymore. But that's exactly how they're treating this. "No, you can't tell this person; Don't tell that person, either! You should just wait to do anything until you've gotten a permanent job...and gone to grad school (part time) and graduated from there...it's only a few more years, it can't be that bad, can it?"

I've started to feel really weird, too. Like, every morning when I get up for work, when I'm buttoning up my shirt it feels like I'm literally locking myself in a cage. There have been times when I just want to rip all of my clothes to shreds, so that I'm forced to go get new ones.

I feel like I'm lost - coming out was the big first step I needed to take to start along my path, but now that I've done that...I don't know where to go, and my parents are very nervous about "letting" me go anywhere. And I can't talk to my therapist about it, either - now that I've let them into that world, my parents keep wanting to talk to her. And since I don't want to just sign a release for them to talk about whatever, that means I have to bring one of them along every time I go, where we rehash things I've already figured out and dealt with ad naseum, talk about things that have no bearing whatsoever ("Well, what if he's just a transvestite, and that's it?"; "He's never really been in an adult relationship. Do you think that if he was, that could change things?").

Plus other things that are against board rules to talk about, all in all everything seems to haev settled into a big ball of gloom...

So, how is everyone elses day :smallsmile: ?

You have no need to apologise at all. What your parents are doing is past neglectful, it is plain evil. I understand fully well that they are concerned, but they are being directly opposed to the idea of supporting who their child is, rather focussing on anything that can force things to fit in their boxes. That is just... Gah! :smalleek:

Sorry, sorry. I should not rant at your family. My apologies. While I am still quite scared by their actions, I think there might be a way to help them. Is there any way you could ask them to consider how they would feel at your age if they had to lie about something important (perhaps their passions or heritage?) for several years or be disallowed from being themselves and told that a few years was "only" a short time?

Another possibility is telling them that their actions are emotionally harmful. They must at least understand that no matter how much they think they are right, they should not push it to the point that their child is miserable.

I really hope some of that helps. That is a terrible situation. ;_;

*HUGS*

Irish Musician

2012-10-29, 02:01 PM

I'm sorry Phee, the first step is always the hardest, esp on a Journey that is going to take awhile, because in your head you know it will take time to get done. And try not to fault your parents too much. It is going to be hard for them to think of you one way, when, this whole time, you have been another way. This, however, will get better too. They will start to understand what it is you are going through and what it is you are trying to tell them, and eventually they will stop and listen, and finally hear you. How long this will take, who knows?! But hopefully they will start to come around. From the sounds of it, they are still trying to figure out their own emotions about it all, so give them some time to figure their own heads out, and then you all can start figuring out each others.

All of this is said with LOTS of love, and in no way am I trying to come across that you are somehow at fault or that you did anything wrong, or that you parents are jerks or something.....because I am not and you didn't in the least and they don't seem to be (just kinda confused). But big life changes take time, esp for those around you that make take the selfish route and worry about how this is affecting their lives, as opposed to trying to figure out how they can help you. I won't begin to try and say I know what you are going through, because in all honesty, I have no idea what it is like....all I can say is be patient with them. I know you have had this much patience so far, waiting to come out, etc., but just hold on for a little bit longer and things will start to get better. I truly believe people can do beautiful thing and be wonderful people, if we let each other. You have already started that process by coming out of the ashes of your former self, your parents just have to follow your example and come out of the ashes of their former world view, into a bright and gorgeous new view of the bright and gorgeous new YOU.

So keep up hope, Phee, things will be better. :smallsmile:
Also, much hugs and love to you.....and a LOT of SUPPORT!!!

snip
I don't think they are meaning to be neglectful. They are just not sure how to process this change in their daughter's life. Though all the advice you gave Phee is awesome stuff, and I completely agree that she should use that advice. Talk to them, again, and tell them that this isn't something that can be "changed" due to a relationship or anything....this is who you are, not a phase or anything. And like our little Kobold said, no need to ever apologize :smallbiggrin:

~Matthew~