The Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny, D&D style

[rockdeworld]

This question comes from this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258580) thread. I'm reposting it here to make it the focus of the thread.

In that thread there are a bunch of TO builds, which I will spoiler here:
Pun-Pun, by Khan the Destroyer
The Omniscificer, by LordofProcrastination
The Terminator, by Tleilaxu_Ghola
The Wish & The Word, by Frank&K(?)
Chicken Infested Commoner, source unknown, this build by gorfnad
The Jumplomancer, by Caedrus
The Mailman, by DeAnno
The (Tauric) Hulking Hurler, discovered by Incubus, this version by zook1shoe666
Bubs, by sonofzeal
Team Solars, by douglas
The Twice-Betrayer of Shar, by LordofProcrastination
Chuck E. Cheese, by skydragonknight
The Emerald Legion, by JeminiZero
d2 Crusader, by BassetKing
The H.I.V.E. by Sigmajargon.
The Shepherd, The Saint, and the Sinner, by DisposableHero_ and Urnsk
The Morphling, by Urnsk
The Beast, by Squirrelloid
Bringer of Fated Justice by PhaedrusXY
Squibb, Goblin King, by cvazi
The Silly Literalist, by Lusden Veharo
Mr. roboto, by deathwishjoe
Theyla Eserial, by thorian
Cheater of Mystra by Neonsamurai and Funny Slaughter
The Lightning Thief, by Darrin
The totally overpowered Basketweaver, by Zemyla(?)
The Dream of Metal, by Fishy
True Dilettante, by true_shinken
Festering Anger Lad, source unknown
Monty, by psly4mne
Triple Cheesebuger with Onions (3*9th_Caster), by Winternacht
New World Record Mount Familiar Companion by HD, by PlzBreakMyCmpAn
Jovocian Bomb, by Lyinginbedmon
Supermount, by Caelic, and allenchan 3 posts down
Supermount 2.0, by Dyllan
Sleeping Raven Infinite Blood Frenzy, by JeminiZero

Now what would happen if all these builds were put together in a room? Fighting would definitely start, since at least some of the builds are evil and have killing others as their purpose (eg. The Word). Who would come out on top?

Some notes:
* For simplicity's sake, assume that Pun-Pun is a mid-ascension level 1 Kobold with stats of 1000 each and no abilities other than manipulate form.
* The Omniscifier got a god to Alter Reality all his spells/abilities permanent landed in a bucket of water and got revived. He only has the benefits of infinite knowledge.
* Everyone else (besides those two) is post-ascension, and has 1 hour buff-time inside a separate part of the arena that goes nowhere.
* The Nasty Gentleman build is Arcane.
* Btw, when I say "the Emerald Legion," I mean the entire legion, so say about 6000 of them.
* If this were a game, would you be interested in playing one of the characters?

[peacenlove]

IMO if the d2 crusader turn ever comes, he/she just punches the floor, damage is never resolved (since the PC rolls for all eternity) and everything just stops from there until the universe dies from boredom.

Interested in
New World Record Mount Familiar Companion by HD, by PlzBreakMyCmpAn
and
The Twice-Betrayer of Shar, by LordofProcrastination
also if you could give links to the builds I would be grateful since I don't know half of them. :smallfrown:

EDIT: sorry just read the parent thread.

[Hiro Protagonest]

IMO if the d2 crusader turn ever comes, he/she just punches the floor, damage is never resolved (since the PC rolls for all eternity) and everything just stops from there until the universe dies from boredom.

If a character would automatically succeed at a task, he does not need to roll.

[toapat]

IMO if the d2 crusader turn ever comes, he/she just punches the floor, damage is never resolved (since the PC rolls for all eternity) and everything just stops from there until the universe dies from boredom.

Interested in
New World Record Mount Familiar Companion by HD, by PlzBreakMyCmpAn
and
The Twice-Betrayer of Shar, by LordofProcrastination
also if you could give links to the builds I would be grateful since I don't know half of them. :smallfrown:

Check the thread linked.


Of the builds given, the Omnificer wins, as long as we are not considering the Massive Damage rules to be in effect

[Psyren]

IMO if the d2 crusader turn ever comes, he/she just punches the floor, damage is never resolved (since the PC rolls for all eternity) and everything just stops from there until the universe dies from boredom.

The d2 Crusaders rerolls are optional, therefore it won't be infinite.

[rockdeworld]

Punpun, being of infinite innitive and divine rank, mearly has to disbelieve all other builds in the contest.
Not this one, or it would be too short. See the op.

[toapat]

Not this one, or it would be too short. See the op.

i edited, technically the Omnificer also is omnipotent, so long as we consider massive damage as not being in the game

Also, the D2 crusader, if we are allowing RAW to be ignored (IE, its actually not specific enough to work in that way), would vaporize the planet, completely eliminating anyone without flight from the contest.

[rockdeworld]

Also, the D2 crusader, if we are allowing RAW to be ignored (IE, its actually not specific enough to work in that way), would vaporize the planet, completely eliminating anyone without flight from the contest.
That actually sounds pretty interesting. Would he even get a chance to do it? Why do you say the Omniscifier wins? AFAIK, he only has infinite skills. That might translate to a full-round diplomacy to make everyone his fanatic, if he got the chance. I don't see what else he could do.

[toapat]

That actually sounds pretty interesting. Would he even get a chance to do it? Why do you say the Omniscifier wins? AFAIK, he only has infinite skills. That might translate to a full-round diplomacy to make everyone his fanatic, if he got the chance. I don't see what else he could do.

The d2 crusader relies on the fact that:
A: the Shuriken is a D2 weapon
B: the chaos stance causes maximum dice to explode
C: Imued healing with Luck domain boost bumps all rolls for damage of 1 to 2.

Why this specifically doesnt go infinite: it does not specifically state that for all intents and purposes you rolled the two. this means that it does not actually count for rolling a 2 on the D2.

Edit: The reason why he would destroy the planet is, even with the nigh-infinite HP and hardness of a planet, the D2 crusader is still doing infinite damage. He then deals damage to the rubble, and so on, until the infinte damage applied to the wall vaporized the planet

no specific idea though how the Omnificer wins though

[Psyren]

That actually sounds pretty interesting. Would he even get a chance to do it? Why do you say the Omniscifier wins? AFAIK, he only has infinite skills. That might translate to a full-round diplomacy to make everyone his fanatic, if he got the chance. I don't see what else he could do.

That's the point - you don't see what else he can do, but he does, because he knows everything. He's basically a walking Singularity - an intelligence far surpassing that of his creator. In other words, he will already know what he needed to have done to win the contest before it started. He even knew about this thread before it was posted.

[toapat]

That's the point - you don't see what else he can do, but he does, because he knows everything. He's basically a walking Singularity - an intelligence far surpassing that of his creator. In other words, he will already know what he needed to have done to win the contest before it started. He even knew about this thread before it was posted.

this of course assumes Massive Damage isnt in play. otherwise his loop would force a DC infinite fort save before the bucket

[peacenlove]

i edited, technically the Omnificer also is omnipotent, so long as we consider massive damage as not being in the game

Also, the D2 crusader, if we are allowing RAW to be ignored (IE, its actually not specific enough to work in that way), would vaporize the planet, completely eliminating anyone without flight from the contest.

However he/she is easily defeated. Change his size and his damage either drops to 1 or is raised to 1d3. Or break his/her weapon.

[Psyren]

this of course assumes Massive Damage isnt in play. otherwise his loop would force a DC infinite fort save before the bucket

What damage? I was talking about Omniscifier there, not the d2 Crusader.

[Raven777]

I think Massive Damage rule being in play would mean the Omnicificer couldn't exist in this game in the first place, because he could not survive the infinite damage loop trick he uses to attain his powers.

[Lunix Vandal]

That actually sounds pretty interesting. Would he even get a chance to do it? Why do you say the Omniscifier wins? AFAIK, he only has infinite skills. That might translate to a full-round diplomacy to make everyone his fanatic, if he got the chance. I don't see what else he could do.If the Omniscificer is allowed any prep time at all after his brainwashed deity makes his infinite bonuses permanent, bad (or at least comedically broken) things happen. After a week of prep time, an infinite Profession check will, by RAW, result in infinite wealth to spend on whatever magic items the Omniscificer would care to possess. Thanks to his infinite knowledge, he knows precisely who to contact (via a self-made ring of sending, for example) to acquire such things in the shortest amount of time. Scrolls of metamagicked Time Stop are just the tip of the iceberg, there.

Once he gets in speaking distance of the Ultimate Showdown (or by using a ring of sending), his Infinite Bluff/Diplomacy/Intimidate means it's only a full-round action to acquire silly numbers of Fanatic TO-level followers. Or, y'know, just get all of the gods as Fanatics. All of them. Yeah. Infinite Disguise/Hide/Move Silently means he's impossibly difficult to find, even while he's brainwashing the universe. (Somehow.) He also has infinite To-Hit and Saves, just for funsies (it's granted by the same spell effect loop that gave him +infinite to skills).

Additionally, LoP's stated next step after having the bonuses made permanent is to have the brainwashed deity grant the 'Ficer Divine Rank 1. If that's allowed ... well, things get even more comedically broken.

Psyren -- toapat's "Massive Damage" comment is referring to the fact that the ascension process for the Omniscificer involves taking an infinite amount of damage, before Masochism grants its +infinity to Fort saves. This, however, is a moot point: 1) Massive Damage is a flat DC 15 save, regardless of the actual amount of damage taken (not "DC Infinite" as toapat suggests), and 2) by RAW, is only triggered when the victim takes 50+ damage from a single attack. The 'Ficer's infinite damage loop is neither involves attacks, nor does it require him to ever take more damage from a single source per iteration of the loop than whatever starts the loop in the first place. Delay Death and Beastland Ferocity handle the rest. :smalltongue:

[Psyren]

Psyren -- toapat's "Massive Damage" comment is referring to the fact that the ascension process for the Omniscificer involves taking an infinite amount of damage, before Masochism grants its +infinity to Fort saves. This, however, is a moot point: 1) Massive Damage is a flat DC 15 save, regardless of the actual amount of damage taken (not "DC Infinite" as toapat suggests), and 2) by RAW, is only triggered when the victim takes 50+ damage from a single attack. The 'Ficer's infinite damage loop is neither involves attacks, nor does it require him to ever take more damage from a single source per iteration of the loop than whatever starts the loop in the first place. Delay Death and Beastland Ferocity handle the rest. :smalltongue:

Oh, THAT. Well yeah, you covered it then.

[rockdeworld]

<snip>
Ah. Good points, except that the Omniscifier doesn't get prep time. That said, I guess I'd edit it a bit so that:
a. the Omniscifier's abilities are not permanent - he'll have to make do with infinite knowledge (including knowledge about this contest - which may not be how to win, but instead that it's unwinnable for him).
b. the prep time reduced to 1 hour. That should be long/short enough for all purposes.

[Psyren]

Ah. Good points. I was thinking the prep time would take place in some sort of vacuum, without thinking about what would happen if it were on the PMP. That said, I guess I'd edit it a bit so that:
a. the Omniscifier's abilities are not permanent - he'll have to make do with infinite knowledge (including knowledge about this contest - which may not be how to win, but instead that it's unwinnable for him).
b. the prep time reduced to 1 hour. That should be long/short enough for all purposes.

Infinite knowledge means he knew about the contest long before it was set up, and had a contingent Wish ready to pull him out if he couldn't win. As you know, a transport Wish can't be stopped by anything.

[rockdeworld]

Infinite knowledge means he knew about the contest long before it was set up, and had a contingent Wish ready to pull him out if he couldn't win. As you know, a transport Wish can't be stopped by anything.
I did not know that (learn something new every day!). My only question is: if his stats weren't permanent, how did he afford a contingent wish?

[Kazyan]

Short answer: Stalemate between The Terminator and the Omniscificer. Here's a writeup of one of the ways this could go down:

There's a Foresight Celerity and Contingent Celerity war before initiative. The Omniscificer has a Contingent Ghost Sound instead of a Contingent Celerity, to tell everyone not to kill Monty or himself. This need not be convincing because, if anyone disobeys the first part, Mini-Monty will keep scrubbing the timeline until they take the hint. Even if he doesn't get to finish his message, Mini-Monty scrubs some more until he can.

The Wish goes first because he can have all of the contingent wishes + Favor of the Martyr, and just sort of 'ports everyone except Monty, The Omniscificer, The Word, the Terminator's entourage (they're immune) and the Emerald Legion (again, immune) into the Sun. Will saves don't matter; he can individually wish everyone to fail their saves before doing this. The Sun compacted everyone into a little ball--the normally wouldn't take damage due to immunities, but unfortunately, they end up clustering around the Cheater and a Twice-Betrayer. The AMFs kill everyone in the sun except the Twice-Betrayer and the Cheater.

The Wish spends some wishes trying to destroy the entourage and the Legion, but they're immune to almost everything.

The only living people who have their two Celerities left are The Cheater, The Twice-Betrayer, and The Word. (The Terminator is inside god_3 and unaware of the combat, so he didn't Celerity.) First Celerity: The Cheater Supernatural Plane Shifts out of the sun. The Twice-Betrayer is immobilized and does not have Silent Spell or Still Spell, so he dies when his buffs are out, and we can ignore him from here on out. The Word teleports to somewhere that isn't within Blasphemy range of Monty/Omni, but can still hit the entourage and some of the Legion. Second Celerity: The Cheater opens a Gate to the battelfield. The Word says a Holy Word, which no one is affected by.

Everyone rolls initiative, finally. Roughly speaking: Omni, Wish, Word, Cheater, Terminator, Monty, Legion.

Omni whips out a scroll of Wish (Quick Draw from Heroics, scroll acquired from a diety's Alter Reality) and ports himself and Monty to a nice open field somewhere. They drop initiative while they talk; we'll put them on hold for a while.

The Wish 'ports into the air somewhere.

The Word Disjoins the Cheater, cracking open the AMF and closing the Gate, then flies up to join his brother.

The Cheater casts AMF, grumbling. He's still in the other Plane; he never stepped through the Gate.

The Terminator peeks out of god_3's mouth, then tells the entourage to attack the nearest creature. The entourage wails on the Legion for a bit. Nothing happens.

Most of The Legion flies up and tires to mob The Wish and The Word, and some of it mobs the entourage. The Wish uses another Wish -> Celerity, and ports himself and his brother to the same plane as the Cheater, some nomber of feet away. The Cheater casts Celerity and DimDoors to the Wish and the Word.

The Wish runs out of the AMF and Wishes his brother to himself.

The Word casts Disjunction (crack the AMF), then Celerity, then Supernatural Blasphemy. There's nothing the Cheater can do about this after he's used his immediate action, so he's dead.

The Terminator starts troubleshooting the problem of not bieng able to kill the Emerald Legion with a spell or power.

The Legion wails on the entourage.

The Wish returns himself and his brother to very high above the original battlefield.

I will no longer speak in terms of rounds. It gets a bit murky for a while, but eventually, the Terminator figures out that a member of the entourage can Alter Realty a Holy Word that can kill Legionnaires, provided they are inside the AMFs. AR is supernatural, and the Emerral Legion is not immune to Supernatural Holy Words. The Wish and the Word can't really do anything; the Word only has one Supernatural Blasphemy left, and it doesn't penetrate into the AMFs. The Wish is also incapable of getting through everyone's immunities. So, eventually, The Terminator cleans up the Emerald Legion.

The Terminator eventually drives off the Wish and the Word, too. There's nothing they can do to a bunch of dieties. Even if the Word gets a third Disjunction and breaks the AMFs, then does a Supernatural Blasphemy, the'yre immune due to the Living Vault trait.

Meanwhile, Omni whips out some partially charged Dorjes, and then does the Carmen Sandiego trick (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177889) on the Wish's ring. He wistles and slips on the ring. The Wish probably has a contingency to recreate his ring, but the point is that Omni now has his own. The Wish is a bit busy to investigate this right now, if he has his functinoal replacement anyway.

Omni tells Monty to hold still for a few minutes. He walks over to a seemingly random location, whips out a wand of Celerity and a dorje of Null Psionics Field, and manifests from the latter. Then he uses his ring of Wish to make Mony Fial his next save, then Wish a Slay Living on Monty. Important: A careful reading of Magic-Psionics transparency and Null Psionics Field suggests that Null Psionics field does not affect spells. Supressing, instead of dispelling, is nowhere in the transparency text. Therefore, spells are functional within a Null Psionics Field.

After that, we're back in round-time. Mini-Monty creates a Gate to check on Monty, as per step 5 of the time-scrubbing procedure...right in front of the Null Psionics Field, exactly as Omni predicted. The field supresses Mini-Monty's fusion, which splits Mini-Monty, which ends the Time Stop effect because there's no one for it to affect anymore. I think this makes one of Mini-Monty's components--Clone 1--disappear. It's still Omni's turn, so he casts Celerity (using swift action of this turn) from the wand, drops his Null Psionics Field Dorje, and Wishes a Disintegrate on the Dorje of Time Regression that Mini-Monty was using. Mini-Monty's scrub has been sucessfully stopped.

Omni will have to deal with the remaining components of Mini-Monty--Jay and Stefan--but since he can predict their actions perfectly and has the Wish's item, he can easly handle them.

After some time, Omni wishes The Word to fail his saves against the next Wish cast upon him, and then Wishes him into the Sun. The Word compacts into the Betrayer, has his buffs stripped, and dies. Omni wishes a Mind Blank upon himself, then keeps readying actions to Wish The Wish into the field of the Terminator's AMFs. Eventually, The Wish will run out of contingencies and get clobbered by a bunch of gods.

There is no way to threaten The Terminator, so Omni doesn't even try. He keeps himself Mind Blanked and avoids The Terminator forever.

The Omniscificer has access to so. Many. Tools. His buff rounds consisted of asking the gods for the perfect equipment and buffs, and he's the only one who could possibly kill Monty by exploiting a bit of poor wording in the Magic-Psionics transparency rules. Otherwise, there's no way to get rid of Monty at all.

The Terminator is utterly unkillable, beyond the Emerald Legion, so no one can take him out short of Pun-Pun, if he was allowed to ascend--which is a terrible idea for The Omniscificer, so he doesn't save Pun-Pun.

[Psyren]

I did not know that (learn something new every day!). My only question is: if his stats weren't permanent, how did he afford a contingent wish?

He knows everything, so there's a million ways. Trap several efreets weeks before the contest. Fool a gung-ho party of adventurers into thinking doing so will grant them money and wenches. Take over a Wizard's guild and leave instructions on a napkin. Blackmail Elminster. Seduce Mystra. Befriend Vecna. His imagination is really the only limiter.

[Douglas]

My reading of the restriction on Omniscificer is that he just gained his infinite knowledge the instant before the battle begins. He cannot trap efreets, blackmail Elminster, seduce Mystra, or anything else in the weeks before the contest because he doesn't have his infinite bonuses early enough.


Will saves don't matter; he can individually wish everyone to fail their saves before doing this.
That is not on the list of safe effects for Wish, and even if it were it would itself allow a save.

[Psyren]

My reading of the restriction on Omniscificer is that he just gained his infinite knowledge the instant before the battle begins. He cannot trap efreets, blackmail Elminster, seduce Mystra, or anything else in the weeks before the contest because he doesn't have his infinite bonuses early enough.

Even if you're right, infinite knowledge means discovering a way to go back in time (or trick one of the other combatants into sending you) and set up such precautions. Otherwise it isn't really infinite.



That is not on the list of safe effects for Wish, and even if it were it would itself allow a save.

It actually is, sort of - Limited Wish lets you -7 to someone's save without a saving throw, so you could either duplicate that functionality or bump it up to -9 without exceeding Wish's power. Granted, -9 is not necessarily automatic failure, but it could be close.

[Douglas]

Even if you're right, infinite knowledge means discovering a way to go back in time (or trick one of the other combatants into sending you) and set up such precautions. Otherwise it isn't really infinite.
That assumes that such a way exists. Tricking one of the other combatants into sending him back is a possibility, since some of them do have that capability, but there is no guarantee that it is possible to do so before he gets killed - with only his knowledge going for him and no other advance setup, there's nothing to stop some other contestant from killing the Omniscificer before he even gets to act.


It actually is, sort of - Limited Wish lets you -7 to someone's save without a saving throw, so you could either duplicate that functionality or bump it up to -9 without exceeding Wish's power. Granted, -9 is not necessarily automatic failure, but it could be close.
Limited Wish also allows a save. Never mind.

-9 is certainly a reasonable scaling up, automatic failure is not. And considering who the targets are going to be, -9 is VERY far from a certainty of failure. Just for what I am personally most familiar with, Team Solars is rocking +55 or more will save bonus on every member except the animal companion (who "only" has +45), and each of them gets to roll twice and use the better result.

[Psyren]

That assumes that such a way exists. Tricking one of the other combatants into sending him back is a possibility, since some of them do have that capability, but there is no guarantee that it is possible to do so before he gets killed - with only his knowledge going for him and no other advance setup, there's nothing to stop some other contestant from killing the Omniscificer before he even gets to act.

If there's no way to actually apply his knowledge in time, then yeah, he's pretty boned. In which case bringing him there is pretty pointless.

The whole point of the build is that it assumes the knowledge can be applied. If knowing everything simply means "I can't stop Pun-Pun," then the build has no purpose.


Limited Wish also allows a save.

Only when it duplicates a different spell - for the other listed uses (including the saving throw debuff), there is no save.

EDIT:



-9 is certainly a reasonable scaling up, automatic failure is not. And considering who the targets are going to be, -9 is VERY far from a certainty of failure.

That depends on the DC of the effect though. After all, if you have +1,000,000 to saves, and I have +999,995 to DC, then suddenly that debuff becomes relevant.

[Kazyan]

Spam Wishes until soemone rolls a nat 1, then.

I'm pretty sure my scenario has tons of other holes anyway.

[Douglas]

I don't recall the Wish having a mechanism for infinite actions.

[Kazyan]

I don't recall the Wish having a mechanism for infinite actions.

In the scenario, The Wish had enough time from his n+1 contingencies, and The Omniscificer could afford to lolligag.

Or should I come up with a revised scenraio?

[Douglas]

You can only have one actual Contingency and a number of Crafted Contingent Spells equal to your number of hit dice.

[Kazyan]

So I need to revise, then. It's nice to know there are actual limits on that.

[rockdeworld]

I don't recall the Wish having a mechanism for infinite actions.
Wish can duplicate GAF, and possibly Sanctum Spell GAF+Celerity, for infinite actions. Regardless, it can also apparently (I say because I'm not sure) bestow feats, such as Sanctum Spell.

No need for revision. Possibly the Omniscifier needs a very strict set of rules in order not to become broken one way or the other. As it stands, I don't know. The scenario presented was definitely cool. Kazyan, you get at least one cookie for posting that.

Edit: Almost forgot: the "careful reading" of NPF would, I assume, be that a NPF is not an AMF, since the PMTR specifically says an AMF is a NPF. I'm unsure if an NPF would reach through a Gate (to where Mini Monty is), especially since the rules weren't designed to handle that.

[Kazyan]

Wish can duplicate GAF, and possibly Sanctum Spell GAF+Celerity, for infinite actions. Regardless, it can also apparently (I say because I'm not sure) bestow feats, such as Sanctum Spell.

No need for revision. Possibly the Omniscifier needs a very strict set of rules in order not to become broken one way or the other. As it stands, I don't know. The scenario presented was definitely cool. Kazyan, you get at least one cookie for posting that.

Edit: Almost forgot: the "careful reading" of NPF would, I assume, be that a NPF is not an AMF, since the PMTR specifically says an AMF is a NPF. I'm unsure if an NPF would reach through a Gate (to where Mini Monty is), especially since the rules weren't designed to handle that.

InifiniGAF as used in the Stuffy Doll challenge is being treated as a different TO trick, so I excluded it. But thanks for the cookie; I'll need it to get through the rewrite later.

The last line of Magic-Psi transparency refers to dead magic feilds, not antimagic fields. There is a difference. You have to check the rest of Magic-Psi transparancy to figure out how NPF would work, and it doesn't say that it would take down magic. I figured that it would reach through the Gate because there is suddenly LoE, but your mileage may vary. Omni's previous method was to Celerity as the Gate opened, but Time Stop specifcally says no one else takes any actions, so the Mini-Monty problem had to be resolved through NPF kludge.

[rockdeworld]

The last line of Magic-Psi transparency refers to dead magic feilds, not antimagic fields. There is a difference. You have to check the rest of Magic-Psi transparancy to figure out how NPF would work, and it doesn't say that it would take down magic. I figured that it would reach through the Gate because there is suddenly LoE, but your mileage may vary. Omni's previous method was to Celerity as the Gate opened, but Time Stop specifcally says no one else takes any actions, so the Mini-Monty problem had to be resolved through NPF kludge.
Huh, I guess the rules were designed for it. So my only question is: how does Omni get a swift action Celerity?

[olentu]

Huh, I guess the rules were designed for it. So my only question is: how does Omni get a swift action Celerity?

Immediate actions function as swift actions when used on the character's turn.

[rockdeworld]

Immediate actions function as swift actions when used on the character's turn.
I mean how does an Elf Artificer 4 get Celerity as a swift or immediate action? If used from an item, it requires a standard action to activate the item, correct?

[Kazyan]

I mean how does an Elf Artificer 4 get Celerity as a swift or immediate action? If used from an item, it requires a standard action to activate the item, correct?

Rules Compendium says that the time to use a wand is the same amount of time required to cast the spell. So, immediate action.

[rockdeworld]

Oho, cool. That makes wands a bit better then.