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View Full Version : [3.5] Five Psionic Dual-Progression PrCs



PairO'Dice Lost
2012-10-26, 03:03 AM
These are three random ideas that came to me today that I decided to write down and post, one intended for cleric/ardents, one for shadowcaster/wilders, one for a particular sort of wizard/psion. They don't have the full PrC writeup since they're more proof-of-concept than anything, but hopefully the flavor comes through all right; I make no guarantees regarding balance given the total lack of playtesting. Class features are Extraordinary unless otherwise noted.

Enjoy.

EDIT: Added additional PrCs, one for lurk/incarnates and one for warblade/psionicists.

The Divine Mind

A divine mind is a character who channels the power of the divine through psionic talent as well as faith. Not merely content to worship certain aspects of his deity and channel power that way, he also re-aligns his thought patterns until they are in total agreement with the tenets of his faith and his devotion fuses his thoughts and actions into a unified whole.

(A note for those who want to use this and the CPsi divine mind in the same game: ...what are you thinking? The CPsi version sucks! Rename this if you have to, I guess.)

Prerequisites:
Spellcasting: Ability to cast 2nd-level divine spells
Manifesting: Ability to manifest 2nd-level psionic powers
Skills: Knowledge (Religion) 6 ranks, Knowledge (Psionics) 6 ranks.
Feat: Psicrystal Affinity
Special: Must have a patron deity
Special: Ability to turn or rebuke undead
Special: Access to at least one domain
Special: Access to at least one mantle

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|Spellcasting|Manif esting
1|+0|+2|+0|+2|Dual Devotion (Granted Power)|+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class|+1 level of existing manifesting class
2|+1|+3|+0|+3|Extra Domain|+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class|+1 level of existing manifesting class
3|+1|+3|+1|+3|Broad Faith|+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class|+1 level of existing manifesting class
4|+2|+4|+1|+4|Extra Mantle|+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class|+1 level of existing manifesting class
5|+2|+4|+1|+4|Heterodoxy|+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class|+1 level of existing manifesting class
6|+3|+5|+2|+5|Extra Domain|+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class|+1 level of existing manifesting class
7|+3|+5|+2|+5|Deep Faith|+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class|+1 level of existing manifesting class
8|+4|+6|+2|+6|Extra Mantle|+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class|+1 level of existing manifesting class
9|+4|+6|+3|+6|Dual Devotion|+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class|+1 level of existing manifesting class
10|+5|+7|+3|+7|Full Understanding|+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class|+1 level of existing manifesting class[/table]

HD: d6

Class Skills
The divine mind's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Autohypnosis (Wis), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (psionics) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Profession (Wis), Psicraft (Int), and Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Points at Each Level: 4+Int

Weapon and Armor Proficiency
Divine minds do not gain any additional proficiency with weapons or armor.

Class Features

Dual Devotion: A divine mind combines the tenets espoused by his deity's mantles and domains to form a cohesive whole. Any of the divine mind's granted domain or mantle powers that advance based on cleric or ardent level now advance based on his character level.

Additionally, if the divine mind possesses any granted domain or mantle powers with limited uses per day, he may "recharge" the limited use(s) of such a power to full by expending his psionic focus and one turn/rebuke undead attempt as a standard action. A given granted power may only be recharged once per day, or twice per day if the divine mind possesses a thematically-similar domain or mantle to the one being recharged, at the DM's discretion (Luck domain/Fate mantle, Protection domain/Guardian mantle, etc.)

At 9th level, when casting a divine spell or manifesting a power, the divine mind may apply a metapsionic feat he knows to a divine spell he casts or a metamagic feat he knows to a power he manifests without expending psionic focus, spending additional power points, or increasing the spell level of the spell chosen. This ability may be used three times per day.

Extra Domain: At 2nd and 6th level, a divine mind gains access to one additional domain from among his deity's domains.

Broad Faith: Starting at 3rd level, a divine mind treats his psicrystal as a holy (or unholy) symbol for all purposes, and if his psicrystal is ever damaged or destroyed it is restored to him whole and undamaged the next time he prays for spells. Additionally, when the divine mind is of high enough level to channel powers through his psicrystal, he may cast domain spells through the psicrystal as well.

The insight granted by the intermingling of the divine mind's very personality with his sacred symbol broadens his mind, allowing him to learn powers from the general psion list if he was previously limited to learning powers from mantles. This does not give him any additional powers known, merely allows him to choose powers known from a new list; to manifest any powers learn in this manner, the divine mind must have his psicrystal with him and present it while manifesting the power in the same manner as he would present a divine focus when casting a divine spell.

Extra Mantle: At 4th and 8th level, the divine mind gains access to one additional mantle from among his deity's mantles.

Heterodoxy: The divine mind's broader understanding of his patron's teachings grants him insights beyond his church's orthodox interpretation. When praying for spells, the divine mind may choose a single divine spell from any class list and a single psionic power from any class list and treat them as a normal domain spell or mantle power. The chosen spell and power count as spells known in all respects (he may use spell trigger items of that spell and so forth) and remain that way until he chooses a different spell or power in their place.

The spell and power added must be at least one level lower than the highest-level spell or power he has access to, and the spell or power must share a descriptor and a school or discipline with at least one domain spell or mantle power he already knows. For instance, a divine mind capable of casting 6th level spells with access to the Fire domain could choose any Conjuration [Fire] spell of 5th level or lower because the 6th-level Fire domain spell fire seeds is a Conjuration [Fire] spell--and not just a Conjuration spell or a [Fire] spell, it has to have both and they both must match.

Deep Faith: When a divine mind reaches 7th level, there is no longer any distinction between his personal power and his deity's power. Once per day per point of Wisdom bonus he possesses, a divine mind can either sacrifice a spell slot to manifest a power he knows of equal or lower level (which is automatically augmented to the divine mind's manifester level) or can cast a divine spell he has prepared or can spontaneously cast by spending a number of power points equal to his manifester level.

Full Understanding: The 10th-level divine mind is fully in tune with the precepts of his deity and can embody them in many different ways. When praying for spells, a divine mind with this ability may substitute one domain and one mantle to which he has access for any other domain or mantle granted by his deity. His capabilities change to match (powers known from the old mantle become powers known of equivalent level in the new mantle and so forth), and the substitution lasts until the next time the divine mind prepares spells.

The Fractured Psyche

Normally, cultivating one's psionic talents requires rigorous mental discipline and tight control. Some psionicists, known as wilders, are able to loosen the mental barriers of their ego and superego to channel more power than they are normally able to. Occasionally wilders over-use this ability or simply can't control the extra power and their id overpowers and damages the higher parts of their minds, turning them into fractured psyches. Their subconscious mind and darker emotions provide a stronger reservoir of power than they could have dreamed of before, to the point that the darkness in their minds manifests in reality as literal darkness and shadow, at the very minor price of their sanity and self-control.

The shattered remnants of their higher morals and self control are still around, albeit walking and talking now rather than merely being voices in their heads, so most fractured psyches don't appear to change in personality to casual acquaintances. Only close friends and family generally realize that there is now something more dark, primal, and wrong about them now.

Prerequisites:
Alignment: Any non-good and non-lawful
Shadowcasting: Able to cast 2nd-level mysteries
Manifesting: Able to manifest 2nd-level powers
Skills: Knowledge (Arcana) 6 ranks, Knowledge (Psionics) 6 ranks
Feats: Shadow Familiar, Psicrystal Affinity
Class Feature: Wild Surge

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|Spellcasting|Manif esting
1|+0|+2|+0|+2|Fragmented Personality|+1 level of existing mystery-using class|--
2|+1|+3|+0|+3|Extra Mystery Known|+1 level of existing mystery-using class|+1 level of existing manifesting class
3|+1|+3|+1|+3|Dark Recesses of the Mind|--|+1 level of existing manifesting class
4|+2|+4|+1|+4|Expanded Knowledge|+1 level of existing mystery-using class|+1 level of existing manifesting class
5|+2|+4|+1|+4|Suppress Ego|+1 level of existing mystery-using class|+1 level of existing manifesting class
6|+3|+5|+2|+5|Extra Mystery Known|+1 level of existing mystery-using class|+1 level of existing manifesting class
7|+3|+5|+2|+5|Id Made Manifest|+1 level of existing mystery-using class|+1 level of existing manifesting class
8|+4|+6|+2|+6|Expanded Knowledge|+1 level of existing mystery-using class|+1 level of existing manifesting class
9|+4|+6|+3|+6|Schadenfreude|+1 level of existing mystery-using class|+1 level of existing manifesting class
10|+5|+7|+3|+7|Eternal Darkness of the Shattered Mind|+1 level of existing mystery-using class|+1 level of existing manifesting class[/table]

HD: d4

Class Skills
The fractured psyche's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Knowledge (psionics) (Int), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Profession (Wis), Psicraft (Int), and Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Points at Each Level: 4+Int

Weapon and Armor Proficiency
Fractured psyches do not gain any additional proficiency with weapons or armor.

Class Features

Fragmented Personality: A fractured psyche's new outlook on life lets him see magic in a new way. He does not suffer any penalties on dispel checks, Spellcraft or Psicraft checks, etc. due to any differences between magic, shadowcastng, and psionics.

Additionally, the manifestations of his powers are altered, as he now channels Shadow through his id instead of channeling the Astral with his ego. This has several effects: First, any of his psionic powers that would normally draw on ectoplasm or the Astral Plane instead draws on shadow-stuff and the Plane of Shadow; he can teleport in areas with no Astral Plane connection but not in areas without a Plane of Shadow connection, his "astral" constructs are immune to dismiss ectoplasm, and so forth. Second, this twisting of his powers make them more difficult to identify: the DC of Psicraft checks made to identify powers (or the results of powers) manifested by fracture psyches increases by 5, and the DC of Psicraft checks to identify such a power by its display increases by 10. Third, a fractured psyche's powers have different displays than a normal wilder’s powers do, as described below:
Auditory: A discordant, minor-key chord just above the threshold of hearing issues from the fractured psyche’s vicinity or in the vicinity of the power’s subject (fractured psyche’s choice). The sound is slightly piercing, becoming more and more discordant and irritating until everyone within 100 feet can feel their skulls aching from the noise. At the fractured psyche’s option, the sound can be limited so that it can be heard only within 15 feet with a successful DC 10 Listen check. Some powers describe unique auditory displays.

Material: The subject or the area is briefly coved by ephemeral, shadowy tendrils—if someone stares at the tendrils for a few moments, they seem to twist and shimmer as if alive. The shadows fade away and disappear after 1 round, regardless of the power’s duration, though during the power’s duration any colors on the target seem dimmer and flatter. Characters with the Psicraft skill can recognize the shadows as being a result of a fractured psyche’s power with a DC 10 Psicraft check.

Mental: The minds of creatures within 15 feet of either the fractured psyche or the subject (at the fractured psyche’s option) become clouded for an instant, causing their senses to be numbed and giving them a momentary headache; neither effect is severe enough to cause any mechanical penalties. At the fractured psyche’s option, the effects can persist during the power’s duration as long as the affected creatures are in an area of bright light. Some powers describe unique mental displays.

Olfactory: The pungent, cloying scent of ether causes creatures within 20 feet of the fractured psyche to feel drowsy. The odor originates from the fractured psyche and spreads to a distance of 20 feet, then fades in less than a second; however, the source of the scent is difficult to pin down, and affected creatures feel slightly colder for the power’s duration.

Visual: The fractured psyche’s eyes fade to complete blackness while the power remains in effect. As the power is manifested, the surrounding light within a 5-foot radius dims slightly, suddenly becoming utter darkness the instant the power takes effect and then returning to normal light levels, unless a unique visual display is described.
Finally, the fractured psyche's shadow familiar and psicrystal, the remnants of their egos and superegos given physical form, each gain the combined benefits of being a shadow familiar and a psicrystal. This functions in the same manner that an arcane heirophant combines his animal companion and familiar for the purposes of abilities gained, stacking, etc.

Extra Mystery Known: At 2nd and 6th level, the fractured psyche learns one mystery of any level he is capable of casting. The mystery must belong to a path of which he knows at least one mystery already. Additionally, a fractured psyche continues to gain bonus feats for path access as if levels of fractured psyche were levels of shadowcaster.

Dark Recesses of the Mind: Fractured psyches can manifest powers in conditions that would stop most other psionicists, since their subconscious mind is doing most of the heavy lifting. A fractured psyche may always act during a surprise round as long as the action they take is manifesting a power, and they may manifest powers normally while dazed, confused, nauseated, stunned, panicked, cowering, or disabled. This ability does not allow the fractured psyche to manifest while suffering from psychic enervation, he may not use wild surge in conjunction with this ability, and manifesting a power using this ability triggers psychic enervation.

Expanded Knowledge: A fractured psyche gains Expanded Knowledge as a bonus feat at 4th and 8th level.

Suppress Ego (Su): Once per day, the fractured psyche can fully suppress whatever vestiges of his conscious mind remain to unleash his full power. For two rounds per class level, the fractured psyche becomes immune to mind-affecting effects, adds +4 to his powers' save DCs and to manifester level checks to break through power resistance, and automatically triggers a wild surge each round without suffering a chance a psychic enervation.

In return, the fractured psyche must manifest at least one power or cast at least one mystery each round, and it must be an offensive power or mystery (DM's discretion; if it would break an invisibility it's probably offensive). He may not voluntarily end this ability early. If there are no enemies within range of the fractured psyche's powers or mysteries at any given time, it must attack any other creatures it can, including allies; if he is unable to use any more offensive powers or mysteries due to running out of power points, lacking uses of offensive mysteries, or any other reason, this ability ends and he takes 4 points of Charisma burn.

If the fractured psyche is under the influence of any unwanted mind-affecting effect that would prevent him from acting freely, he may still activate this ability despite the effect, but he must succeed on an opposed Charisma check against his controller each round he wishes to activate this ability and the duration is halved.

Id Made Manifest (Su): In dangerous situations, a fractured psyche can lower his mental barriers even more so than they already are and let his raw emotions manifest physically in the world around him. Once per day as a full-round action, the fractured psyche may choose one mystery he knows of apprentice grade or lower that affects a single creature or object and apply it to every valid target within a 40-foot radius of him. The power is somewhat diluted by this dilation, so the fractured psyche takes a -4 penalty to any attack roll, save DC, or SR penetration roll required by the mystery.

Any creature affected by the mystery is also confused or frightened for 1d4 rounds (fractured psyche's choice, roll once for all targets), and regardless of the number of targets affected the illumination level in the area is reduced by one step for the same duration as the confusion or fear.

Schadenfreude (Su): Whenever a fractured psyche, his shadow familiar, or his psicrystal kills someone with a mystery or power, he may expend his psionic focus to regain the daily use of the mystery used or regain the power points spent to manifest the power, as appropriate.

Eternal Darkness of the Shattered Mind (Su): The various parts of the mind of a 10th-level fractured psyche are practically separate beings in their own right, and he knows how to let them loose to wreak havoc in the world. Once per day as a full-round action, the fractured psyche may manifest two level 7 astral constructs with the Dark template (possessing whatever menu items the fractured psyche desired) and summon two Huge shadow elementals to any spot within Long range, which is also the maximum distance the constructs and elementals may stray from the fractured psyche without being returned to whence they came. The constructs and elementals stay summoned for 1 minute, and as long as at least one remains present, alive, and conscious the fractured psyche gains the benefits of the schism power.

The Solipsist

Solipsism is the belief that one's own mind is the only thing that really exists and the external world is merely a projection, and it can afflict anyone at any time. It strikes particularly hard if the sufferer is a spellcaster or psionicist whose powers manipulate others' perceptions, minds, and bodies, since for all intents and purposes such people do take their imagination and turn it into reality. In such cases it's possible for a solipsist to become so convinced that only his mind is real that he eventually turns his own body into an illusion and gains a limited ability to do the same to the rest of reality.

Prerequisites
Spelcasting: Must be able to cast 2nd-level arcane spells, including at least 2 spells each of the Illusion, Enchantment, and Transmutation schools.
Manifesting: Must be able to manifest 2nd-level psionic powers, including at least 1 power each of the Telepathy, Psychometabolism, and Psychoportation disciplines
Skills: Knowledge (Arcana) 6 ranks, Knowledge (Psionics) 6 ranks
Special: Must be a specialist wizard specializing in either Illusion or Enchantment, or a beguiler
Special: Must be either a telepath, a shaper, or an egoist

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|Spellcasting|Manif esting
1|+0|+0|+0|+2|If I Can't See You, You Can't See Me|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class|--
2|+1|+0|+0|+3|Multiple Choice Identity|--|+1 level of existing manifesting class
3|+1|+1|+1|+3|Ignorance is Bliss|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class|+1 level of existing manifesting class
4|+2|+1|+1|+4|Just A Figment Of Your Imagination|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class|+1 level of existing manifesting class
5|+2|+1|+1|+4|There Is No Spoon|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class|+1 level of existing manifesting class
6|+3|+2|+2|+5|Living Illusion|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class|+1 level of existing manifesting class
7|+3|+2|+2|+5|I Disbelieve the Monster|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class|+1 level of existing manifesting class
8|+4|+2|+2|+6|Anything I Can Imagine|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class|+1 level of existing manifesting class
9|+4|+3|+3|+6|Material Possessions Are Overrated|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class|--
10|+5|+3|+3|+7|I Reject Your Reality And Substitute My Own|--|+1 level of existing manifesting class[/table]

HD: d4

Class Skills
The solipsist's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Disguise (Cha), Hide (Dex), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Search (Int), Spellcraft (Int), and Spot (Wis).

Skill Points at Each Level: 4+Int

Weapon and Armor Proficiency
Solipsists do not gain any additional proficiency with weapons or armor.

Class Features

If I Can't See You, You Can't See Me (Su): Seeing isn't believing for a solipsist. Starting at 1st level, if a solipsist is unable to see a creature (because the creature is invisible, he is blind, it's completely dark and the solipsist doesn't have darkvision, or for any other reason) he gains total concealment against that creature.

Multiple Choice Identity (Su): If you're just an illusion, there's no sense in sticking with just one self-image. Whenever a divination or clairsentience effect would reveal information about the solipsist or his immediate possessions, whether or not it targets him directly, he may make an opposed caster or manifester level check as appropriate to force it to reveal incorrect information; this occurs even if he is not aware of the effect. If he is aware of it (he detects a scrying sensor, he Spellcrafts someone casting detect magic, etc.) he can choose what information the diviner or seer receives.

In either case, the diviner or seer is entitled to a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 solipsist level + Intelligence modifier) to realize the information is false, but succeeding on the save does not reveal the actual information desired. A single opposed check and Will save applies to each spell or power; if a diviner or seer realizes he has been fooled, he must cast or manifest a different spell or power to have another chance to reveal accurate information.

Ignorance is Bliss: What a solipsist doesn't know actually can't hurt him, so solipsists rarely bother to think about the consequences of their actions. If a solipsist would trigger a contingency, magical trap, or other contingent or triggered magical effect that he is not aware of, he may make an opposed caster level check to avoid triggering it. A constant magical effect with conditional effects (such as a magic circle or forbiddance) is not affected by this ability, only effects that are dormant until triggered. This does not dispel it or suppress it for others, merely prevents the effect from registering the solipsist's presence and actions. A new opposed check is needed each time the solipsist would trigger the effect, such as if he leaves and then re-enters a warded area.

Just A Figment Of Your Imagination (Su): A solipsist may spend a swift action immediately before casting a spell or manifesting a power with one or more targets to change the spell's or power's saving throw from Fortitude or Reflex to Will, or to force a Will saving throw at the normal DC in place of an attack roll, as applicable to the spell or power. Additionally, if the spell or power has an Instantaneous duration, any visible, audible, or other sensory effects the spell may have are only detectable by the solipsist and the target(s) of the spell (for instance, a scorching ray so altered would leave no visible burn marks, and an altered body adjustment would leave illusory wounds for observers) as if the Invisible Spell metamagic feat were applied to the spell.

There Is No Spoon (Su): As a standard action, the solipsist may expend his psionic focus to either destroy a single nonmagical, unattended object of up to 5 pounds' weight and 1 cubic foot of volume (or a portion of a larger nonmagical, unattended object of a similar weight and volume) or change its shape as desired, within the same limits as the stone shape spell. In addition, the solipsist is constantly under the effects of a prestidigitation spell.

Living Illusion (Su): By 6th level, a solipsist is so far gone that he's barely more than smoke and mirrors. Any creature who comes into physical contact with the solipsist must make a DC 15 Will save. If the creature succeeds, it "disbelieves" the solipsist and either is entirely unable to perceive the solipsist or perceives him as the vague outline of a disbelieved illusion, at the solipsist's option. If the solipsist performs any action against a deceived creature that would break an invisibility spell, he is immediately revealed and the affected creature becomes immune to that solipsist's ability for 24 hours.

Additionally, as a full-round action the solipsist may move his speed through solid objects as if incorporeal as long as he has line of sight to his destination (so he could walk through a clear window or move through a wall if he could see the other side through a mirror, but not move through the ground at will).

I Disbelieve the Monster (Su): Once per day per point of Intelligence bonus, if the solipsist is hit by an attack roll he may negate the hit by making a Will save against DC 10 + 1/2 attacker's BAB + higher of attacker's Str or Dex modifier, or if the solipsist fails a Fortitude or Reflex save he may roll a Will save against the same DC and treat that as the original save result.

Anything I Can Imagine (Su): A solipsist's only limit is his imagination, and solipsists have colorful imaginations indeed. Once per encounter, the solipsist may attempt to manifest a power he does not know with a limited chance of success. He spends the action and pays the power points to manifest the power, then rolls d%. If the desired power to be duplicated is of the highest power level the solipsist knows, it has a 10% chance to manifest successfully; if it is of the second-highest level, it has a 20% chance to manifest successfully; and so on down the line. If the d% roll fails, the action and power points are spent to no effect.

Material Possessions Are Overrated: Even his all-important spellbook no longer shackles the solipsist to his delusions of reality. A 9th level solipsist fully internalizes his spellbook (treat him as using the Eidetic Spellcasting wizard variant). Additionally, he gains Eschew Materials as a bonus feat and no longer requires expensive spell foci as long as he casts an illusion spell to make it look like he possesses the focus, though expensive material components are still required.

I Reject Your Reality And Substitute My Own: Once per day, the solipsist may do one of the following:
When casting a spell or manifesting a power that creates an illusion, alters perception, or changes one's form (such as cloud mind, glibness, metamorphosis, or major image), the solipsist may render that spell or power immune to detection via see invisibility, true seeing, discern lies, and similar effects.
When casting a spell or manifesting a power that has the mind-affecting or language-dependent descriptor(s) or affects only creatures or objects of a certain alignment, the solipsist may ignore mindlessness, mind-affecting immunity, a language barrier, and/or the targets' alignment; however, the target(s) gain a +10 bonus to their saving throw or are entitled to a Will save at +10 to negate it if no save is normally offered.
To activate either version of the ability, the solipsist must spend power points equal to his manifester level (if casting a spell) or sacrifice a prepared spell of the highest level he knows (if manifesting a power).

In addition, a 10th-level solipsist is so secure in his solipsism that all of his class features become (Ex) abilities, and his spells and powers function normally in null psionics fields, globes of invulnerability, forbiddances, and other magic-suppressing or -altering areas (even if he would want them to be altered) if the solipsist's character level is 4 or more higher than the caster or manifester level of the effect. For the purposes of this ability, treat dead magic and wild magic zones, planar traits, and other naturally-occurring magic-altering effects as having a caster level of 15.

The Ephemera Thief

Any urchin or two-bit thief can shank someone in the kidney and steal their wallet. It takes a truly gifted thief to shank someone in the mind and steal a part of their soul. Such exceptional individuals, known as ephemera thieves, target psionicists and meldshapers to steal their mental and spiritual power and add it to their own.

Prerequisites:
Skills: Knowledge (Arcana) 5 ranks, Knowledge (Psionics) 5 ranks, Sleight of Hand 8 ranks
Feat: Psycarnum Infusion
Special: Psionic Sneak Attack +1d6
Special: Incarnum Radiance class feature

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|Meldshaping|Manife sting
1|+0|+0|+2|+2|Blended Essence, Cripple Essence|+1 level of existing meldshaping class|+1 level of existing manifesting class
2|+1|+0|+3|+3|Shape Soulmeld|+1 level of existing meldshaping class|+1 level of existing manifesting class
3|+2|+1|+3|+3|Augmented Soul|+1 level of existing meldshaping class|+1 level of existing manifesting class
4|+3|+1|+4|+4|Psionic Sneak Attack +1d6|+1 level of existing meldshaping class|+1 level of existing manifesting class
5|+3|+1|+4|+4|Steal Essence|+1 level of existing meldshaping class|+1 level of existing manifesting class
6|+4|+2|+5|+5|Expanded Knowledge|+1 level of existing meldshaping class|+1 level of existing manifesting class
7|+5|+2|+5|+5|Invest Augment|+1 level of existing meldshaping class|+1 level of existing manifesting class
8|+6|+2|+6|+6|Open Greater Chakra|+1 level of existing meldshaping class|+1 level of existing manifesting class
9|+6|+3|+6|+6|Collector of Souls|+1 level of existing meldshaping class|+1 level of existing manifesting class
10|+7|+3|+7|+7|Called Shot to the Soul|+1 level of existing meldshaping class|+1 level of existing manifesting class[/table]

HD: d6

Class Skills
The ephemera thief's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Autohypnosis (Wis), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Psicraft (Int), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis).

Skill Points at Each Level: 4+Int

Weapon and Armor Proficiency
Ephemera thieves do not gain any additional proficiency with weapons or armor.

Class Features

Blended Essence: The ephemera thief gains several benefits from his mixing of mental and spiritual power. First, levels of ephemera thief stack with levels of incarnate to determine which chakra binds the ephemera thief can access. Second, levels of ephemera thief stack with levels of lurk to determine which lurk augments the ephemera thief can access and to determine his effective lurk level for level-dependent augments. Third, the Aligned Attack and Planar Attack augments can be keyed to lawful and chaotic creatures (as appropriate) by lawful and chaotic ephemera thieves. Finally, he may reallocate essentia and apply lurk augments using the same swift action.

Cripple Essence (Su): An ephemera thief can channel some of his own mental and spiritual power to strike at another's ephemeral attributes. Each time an ephemera thief makes a successful sneak attack, he may choose to strike at a specific chakra to apply one of the following effects. To choose an effect, the ephemera thief must have a shaped soulmeld in the corresponding chakra and must have at least 1 essentia invested in that soulmeld; the notation [E] refers to the amount of essentia invested in that soulmeld.
Crown: The target loses 3*[E] power points.
Brow: The Concentration DC for the target to become psionically focused increases by 3*[E].
Throat: The target loses access to 1 randomly-chosen power known. The ephemera thief may choose the level of the power lost (if the chosen power isn't among the target's powers known, the effect fails) or determine it at random, and the power may be of a level no higher than [E]+1.
Shoulders: The target's essentia capacity for all soulmelds and feats is reduced by [E]/2.
Heart: The target loses [E] essentia.
Arms: The target must make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 level + Int + [E]) each time it wishes to reallocate essentia in order to do so.
Hands: The target must make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 level + Int + [E]) or take a -2 penalty to a mental ability score of the ephemera thief's choice.

Each of the above effects (except the Crown chakra effect, which is instantaneous) lasts for one minute. A single creature may not be affected by this ability more than once per round.

If the ephemera thief scores a critical hit when using Cripple Essence, any soulmeld or magic item occupying the targeted chakra is suppressed for 1d4 rounds in addition to the normal effect of this ability.

Bonus Feats: The ephemera thief gains Shape Soulmeld, Expanded Knowledge, and Open Greater Chakra as bonus feats at the levels indicated on the table.

Augmented Soul (Ps): Three times per day as part of a swift action to reallocate essentia, an ephemera thief may spend power points to briefly charge his soulmelds with extra power. He may spend 4 or more power points to increase the essentia capacity of a single soulmeld by 1 per 4 power points spent for one minute, 8 power points to bind an unbound soulmeld to the chakra it occupies (unbinding a soulmeld of his choice if this would cause him to exceed his maximum chakra binds), or 16 power points to reshape a single soulmeld of his choice. These abilities may be combined as the ephemera thief wishes, including using the same choice with multiple soulmelds, but he may not spend more than his manifester level in power points on one use of this ability.

Expanded Knowledge: At 4th and 8th level, the ephemera thief gains Expanded Knowledge as a bonus feat.

Steal Essence (Su): What's the sense in stealing something if you can't keep it for yourself? Starting at 5th level, when an ephemera thief uses his Cripple Essence ability on a creature, he may expend his psionic focus to gain the benefit appropriate to the chakra struck:
Crown: The ephemera thief gains the power points his target lost.
Brow: The ephemera thief does not need to make a Concentration check to become psionically focused.
Throat: The ephemera thief gains access to the power his target lost
Shoulders: The ephemera thief's essentia capacity is increased by [E]/2.
Heart: The ephemera thief gais [E] temporary essentia.
Arms: The ephemera thief may reallocate essentia immediately without spending an action to do so.
Hands: The ephemera thief gais a +2 enhancement bonus to the chosen ability score.

Each of the above effects (except the Arms chakra effect, which is instantaneous) lasts for one minute. If the ephemera thief scores a critical hit when using Steal Essence, he is treated as having shaped the suppressed soulmeld and/or wearing the suppressed magic item as long as it is suppressed on his target.

Invest Augment (Su): The ephemera thief may invest essentia in this class feature (denoted by [E]) as if it were an incarnum feat. As long as he has at least one point of essentia invested in it, he gains [E] additional augment uses per day, he may use [E]/2 additional augments per attack, and he may use lurk augments with ranged attacks granted by soulmelds (such as a Manticore Belt's spines or a Dissolving Spittle's acid).

Collector of Souls (Su): Whenever a creature dies within 30 feet of an ephemera thief, he may spend an immediate action and make a Reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 dead creature's HD + dead creature's Cha modifier + 2*number of souls currently possessed) to steal that creature's soul to empower himself. A creature's soul is treated as being under the effects of a soul bind spell, and each stolen soul grants the ephemera thief one of the following of his choice: one extra lurk augment use per day, +1d6 psionic sneak attack, +1 DC to his psionic powers, +1 DC to his soulmelds, one extra chakra bind available, or one extra use of incarnum radiance per day. Multiple instances of the same benefit are cumulative.

Souls may be freed in one of five ways: First, if an ephemera thief rolls a natural 1 on the save to capture a soul, all currently stolen souls are freed immediately, even if the ephemera thief has some means to not fail the save on a natural one (such as by replacing it with a Concentration check using the Action Before Thought martial maneuver). Second, if the ephemera thief is killed, all stolen souls are freed after 1d3 days unless the ephemera thief is returned to life during that time. Third, any effect that successfully divests some of the ephemera thief's essentia or unshapes one of his soulmelds also frees one randomly-chosen soul. Fourth, any ability that would attempt to steal or destroy the ephemera thief's soul while he possesses stolen souls has a chance to steal or destroy one of the stolen souls instead, with an equal probability for his soul and each of the stolen souls. Finally, an ephemera thief may simply choose to release one or more stolen souls as a standard action.

Called Shot to the Soul (Su): If the ephemera thief studies a target for 3 rounds and then makes a successful sneak attack with a melee weapon, he may spend a swift action to turn it into a called shot to the soul. The target must make a Fort save (DC 10 + 1/2 level + Int bonus) or be instantly slain or destroyed and (at the ephemera thief's option) have their soul destroyed. If the target's Fort save is successful, it must make a Will save against the same DC or have any power points it possesses be lost, all of its essentia divested, all of its soulmelds unbound and unshaped, and any psionic powers currently active on it dispelled.

This ability is not a death effect, but it only functions against a creature with a soul, including creatures that are all soul (such as incorporeal undead) or creatures whose souls are not physically present (such as liches).

The Akashic Warrior

The akashic records are the collective memories, dreams, and knowledge of all conscious beings. No one knows where they reside physically, if they exist anywhere--some scholars hypothesis that it lies on the boundary between the Astral Plane and Plane of Dreams, but no evidence for this has yet been found--but some talented individuals manage to tap into this boundless well of knowledge nonetheless. It takes a creature of the utmost mental discipline to navigate the records and obtain useful information, and often those best-suited to this task are those who have honed their minds and bodies to work in unison. Such creatures are naturally drawn to study the minds and experiences of warriors and psionicists both living and long-forgotten to expand their own already-potent talents.

Prerequisites:
Martial Maneuvers: Must know at least two maneuvers each from Diamond Mind and Iron Heart
Manifesting: Ability to manifest 2nd-level psionic powers, must know at least two Telepathy or Clairsententience powers
Skills: Autohypnosis 8 ranks, Martial Lore 6 ranks, Knowledge (Psionics) 6 ranks.

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|Maneuvers Known|Maneuvers Readied|Stances Known|Manifesting
1|+1|+0|+2|+2|Collective Unconscious|1|0|0|--
2|+2|+0|+3|+3|Recall Tactics|0|0|0|+1 level of existing manifesting class
3|+3|+1|+3|+3|Search the Akashic Records|1|1|0|+1 level of existing manifesting class
4|+4|+1|+4|+4|Bonus Feat|0|0|0|+1 level of existing manifesting class
5|+5|+1|+4|+4|Photographic Reflexes|1|0|1|+1 level of existing manifesting class
6|+6|+2|+5|+5|Theoretical Knowledge|0|1|0|+1 level of existing manifesting class
7|+7|+2|+5|+5|All Minds Are One|1|0|0|+1 level of existing manifesting class
8|+8|+2|+6|+6|Bonus Feat|0|0|0|+1 level of existing manifesting class
9|+9|+3|+6|+6|Myriad of Memories|1|1|0|+1 level of existing manifesting class
10|+10|+3|+7|+7|Limited Omniscience|0|0|0|+1 level of existing manifesting class[/table]

HD: d8

Class Skills
The akashic warrior's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Autohypnosis (Wis), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Martial Lore (Int), Profession (Wis), and Psicraft (Int).
Skill Points at Each Level: 4+Int

Weapon and Armor Proficiency
Akashic warriors do not gain any additional proficiency with weapons or armor.

Class Features

Maneuvers: The akashic warrior gains additional maneuvers known, maneuvers readied, and stances known as indicated on the table, chosen from the Diamond Mind or Iron Heart disciplines. He must meet all prerequisites to learn a maneuver or stance. The akashic warrior adds his full class level to his initiator level to determine his total initiator level and highest-level maneuvers known.

Collective Unconscious: An akashic warrior's experience with the akashic records broadens his mind, enabling him to train with mental and martial powers outside his usual areas of focus. Upon entering this class, the akashic warrior chooses one power list to which he does not have access from among the psychic warrior power list and the psion discipline lists, and chooses a single martial discipline to which his class does not grant access. He is now able to choose powers known and maneuvers and stances known from the chosen list and discipline as normal.

Recall Tactics: An akashic warrior can draw on ancient knowledge when preparing himself for combat to augment his martial prowess. When an akashic warrior chooses his readied maneuvers, he may choose a single feat to gain as a bonus feat until he next chooses his readied maneuvers. He must meet the prerequisites for this feat as normal, and the feat must be a fighter bonus feat, tactical feat, weapon style feat, combat form feat, psionic feat, or metapsionic feat.

Search the Akashic Records (Ps): An akashic warrior may expend his psionic focus to add his Intelligence bonus to an Int- or Wis-based ability or skill check. Twice per day, he may expend his psionic focus to manifest a power from the Clairsentience or Telepathy discipline that he doesn't know or initiate a maneuver from the Diamond Mind or Iron Heart discipline that he doesn't know. He must pay any power points, meet any prerequisites, etc. necessary to manifest the power or initiate the maneuver.

Bonus Feat: At 4th and 8th level, the akashic warrior gains a bonus feat from the following list: Psychic Renewal, Sudden Recovery, Knowledge Devotion, Jack of All Trades, Open Minded.

Photographic Reflexes: The akashic warrior's near-perfect memory allows him to see an enemy use a technique just once and instantly see how to counter it. If a creature uses a given spell, power, martial maneuver, combat maneuver, or other "active" ability against the akashic warrior two or more times, the akashic warrior adds his Intelligence modifier as an insight bonus to his AC, saving throw, or opposed check to resist the ability on the second and subsequent uses, no matter how much time passes between them. The ability must be used against the akashic warrior directly; "passive" abilities such as offensive precognition, Power Attack, and similar do not trigger this ability, nor does this ability apply against normal melee or ranged attacks.

Theoretical Knowledge (Ps): As the akashic warrior searches the akashic records more broadly and deeply, he learns not only to search for facts and techniques, but also for tips and tricks to apply more generally. When taking 20 on any skill or ability check, the akashic warrior may expend his psionic focus to add his Intelligence bonus to the check. Additionally, when learning feats or maneuvers from any source, he may ignore any prerequisites except for base attack bonus and initiator level requirements.

All Minds Are One (Ps): Experienced akashic warriors can dive down into the collective memories of all creatures and "surface" in a specific mind. If the akashic warrior spends three rounds in uninterrupted study of a creature to which he has line of sight, he adds his Intelligence bonus to manifester level checks to penetrate that creature's power resistance and half that amount to the saving throw DCs of any Clairsentience or Telepathy powers directed against that creature for one minute. Additionally, during that period any flat numerical bonuses granted to the akashic warrior by powers or martial maneuvers are multiplied by 1.5 against the specified creature (e.g. the AC bonus from defensive precognition is effectively Empowered against that creature's attacks, the attack bonus from Blood in the Water is increased by half, etc., but damage rolls, skill checks, and so forth are not effected).

Myriad of Memories: By this point the akashic warrior has become so familiar with the layout and contents of the akashic records that he can draw upon this knowledge to instantly analyze any situation. Once per encounter the akashic warrior may expend his psionic focus to take 20 on a single d20 roll, without increasing the time needed to make the d20 roll as normal for taking 20.

Limited Omniscience (Ps): At the pinnacle of his training, no secret can be hidden from the akashic warrior. Once per day, the akashic warrior may spend a number of power points equal to his manifester level and expend one maneuver of the highest level he knows to do one of the following:
Know the Past: He may cast Hindsight (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20030103a) as a spell-like ability.
Know the Present: He may manifest metafaculty as a psi-like ability.
Know the Future: At the start of his turn, the akashic warrior learns what actions each creature in his line of sight plans to take in the next round; this ability lasts for three rounds.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-10-28, 07:38 PM
120+ views, no responses. Even for fairly niche PrCs that's disappointing.

Well, if no one has comments on these three, are there any other psionic/X combinations people would like to see?

wadledo
2012-10-28, 07:51 PM
A mid-Bab mix of Psionics and Incarnum.
Specifically Incarnate, but Totemist would be interesting as well.

That said, these are interesting, but I almost want to say there are too many abilities for each class.
You may want to consider simplifying some of them. Having something that gives +1 per 2 levels isn't a bad thing.

Also, a Lurk or Psionic Rogue should be able to become a Solipsist.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-10-28, 08:32 PM
A mid-Bab mix of Psionics and Incarnum.
Specifically Incarnate, but Totemist would be interesting as well.

Good idea. I could do two, a psion/incarnate and a psychic warrior/totemist.


That said, these are interesting, but I almost want to say there are too many abilities for each class.
You may want to consider simplifying some of them. Having something that gives +1 per 2 levels isn't a bad thing.

I don't know about that; I like dual-progression classes that are more than just +1 level to each side. Look at the Arcane Heirophant, which gets full advancement of both types of casting and full progression of animal companion, familiar, and wild shape benefits, plus the ability to ignore ASF, the ability to combine your companion and familiar, and the ability to channel spells through animals and plants. That's essentially 5 features plus full casting on both sides.

The same balance of roughly 1 feature per 2 levels plus full casting on both sides applies to the Eldritch Theurge, Sapphire Heirarch, and several others. I figured giving up a level on each side for more features, or two levels for particularly powerful features, wouldn't at all out of line.

BelGareth
2012-10-28, 09:24 PM
Snip of awesomeness

Well, These look great at first glance, I can't do an in depth comment right now, but will do sometime tomorrow.

One thing though, you might want to add {table=head] to the table, it makes them look a whole lot nicer.

Other than that, love the ardent love. and i'll be really interested to see what you do, (if you do) for a Pionic Incarnum mix (thinking of one myself).

JoshuaZ
2012-10-28, 10:54 PM
These seem to be losing more caster levels/manifester levels than necessary. This is especially the case with the Fractured Psyche and the Solipsist. Losing three levels on both sides on a dual progressing class is just very harsh.

Domriso
2012-10-28, 11:40 PM
Not commenting on the power levels, I love the Solipcist. Quite, quite a bit.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-10-28, 11:52 PM
BelGareth and Domriso, glad you like them.


These seem to be losing more caster levels/manifester levels than necessary. This is especially the case with the Fractured Psyche and the Solipsist. Losing three levels on both sides on a dual progressing class is just very harsh.

I was erring on the more conservative side since the class features are all fairly powerful. At the levels the solipsist doesn't advance casting, for instance, the abilities he gets are at-will total concealment, at-will divination foiling, at-will tunneling/object destroying capabilities, at-will incorporeality, the ability to ignore expensive material components and no longer need a spellbook, and the ability to ignore powerful and common immunities a limited number of times per day and constantly ignore AMFs. I'd say you can do a lot with 7th-level casting, 5th-level manifesting, and those features, but if you think it's not enough I could fill in two of the lost levels for each class.

JoshuaZ
2012-10-29, 11:01 AM
BelGareth and Domriso, glad you like them.



I was erring on the more conservative side since the class features are all fairly powerful. At the levels the solipsist doesn't advance casting, for instance, the abilities he gets are at-will total concealment, at-will divination foiling, at-will tunneling/object destroying capabilities, at-will incorporeality, the ability to ignore expensive material components and no longer need a spellbook, and the ability to ignore powerful and common immunities a limited number of times per day and constantly ignore AMFs. I'd say you can do a lot with 7th-level casting, 5th-level manifesting, and those features, but if you think it's not enough I could fill in two of the lost levels for each class.

Two would definitely be enough. Maybe even just filling in one on each side. I'm not sure.

BelGareth
2012-10-29, 02:31 PM
So while I said I would give a more in depth critique, I can't really say much that stands out to me, except maybe the loss of manifester/caster levels that has already been bought up.

These are solid PRC's that I would allow in any of my games.

Good work.

Answerer
2012-10-29, 03:30 PM
The Divine Mind has weird inefficiencies when you try to cross-apply stuff. Considering that you need to lose 3 levels from each side, I think it would be quite safe to make it 100% efficient.

The Fractured Psyche loses an absurd number of levels; Wilders are underwhelming and Shadowcasters are straight-up mediocre. Very cool, though.

Haven't read the Solipsist yet.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-10-29, 03:39 PM
I guess I shouldn't try to pre-judge how the Playground will receive my 'brews next time. I've reduced the number of dead casting levels in each PrC, returning them to their original pre-erring-on-the-side-of-caution power levels.

Answerer
2012-10-29, 05:08 PM
Heterodoxy kind of confuses me. What does it mean for a power to "be a normal mantle power"? That implies it's available to choose as a power known, but then you say he does know it. I think that should just say he knows them.

I still don't see why using Deep Faith to manifest a power is so inefficient. You have to spend Power Points equal to your manifester level, but you only get a spell two levels lower than your highest. Why does he waste 4 Power Points like that? Why can't he just spend Power Points necessary to manifest a power of the same level as the spell?

Also, the wording on the spell-to-power version implies that you could not use a spell to manifest a lower-level power that's Augmented up to the appropriate number of Power Points for a power of the spell's level. That should be an option.

I really don't think Deep Faith needs the limitations. Just let a spell be usable as a source of power points, with a store equal to the number of power points a power of the same level would cost. Just let a number of power points buy a spell of the same level as a power that that many power points could manifest. I don't think you need the "two levels lower than your maximum" restriction at all.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-10-29, 06:00 PM
Heterodoxy kind of confuses me. What does it mean for a power to "be a normal mantle power"? That implies it's available to choose as a power known, but then you say he does know it. I think that should just say he knows them.

Broad Faith lets a divine mind learn powers from the psion list, but he has to have his psicrystal/holy symbol on hand to manifest them. Treating the Heterodoxy power as a mantle power means it's not subject to that restriction.


I still don't see why using Deep Faith to manifest a power is so inefficient. You have to spend Power Points equal to your manifester level, but you only get a spell two levels lower than your highest. Why does he waste 4 Power Points like that? Why can't he just spend Power Points necessary to manifest a power of the same level as the spell?

Also, the wording on the spell-to-power version implies that you could not use a spell to manifest a lower-level power that's Augmented up to the appropriate number of Power Points for a power of the spell's level. That should be an option.

The intention was that the spell-to-power version manifests a fully-augmented power and that the power-to-spell version makes you fully augment it because spells get free scaling (so the power is fully augmented for free) and powers don't (so you have to "augment" to the full CL regardless of spell level).

I'll clarify that the power is indeed fully augmented, but I don't know if reducing the PP expenditure is a good idea; certain spells being awesome regardless of CL is why straight Vancian-to-spell-point translations don't work, after all.


I really don't think Deep Faith needs the limitations. Just let a spell be usable as a source of power points, with a store equal to the number of power points a power of the same level would cost. Just let a number of power points buy a spell of the same level as a power that that many power points could manifest. I don't think you need the "two levels lower than your maximum" restriction at all.

The restriction is there to prevent spamming your top level spells and powers; that's one of the major problems people have with the Mind Mage PrC, which is highly abusable partly for the trade-PP-for-spells mechanic it has. I can relax the restriction to one level lower or remove it, if you think it won't be a problem.

Answerer
2012-10-29, 06:59 PM
You've already lost three spellcasting levels and three manifesting levels; I don't think it is a problem to be good with what's left.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-10-29, 07:13 PM
Point taken. I'll remove that.

wadledo
2012-10-29, 07:16 PM
I don't know about that; I like dual-progression classes that are more than just +1 level to each side. Look at the Arcane Heirophant, which gets full advancement of both types of casting and full progression of animal companion, familiar, and wild shape benefits, plus the ability to ignore ASF, the ability to combine your companion and familiar, and the ability to channel spells through animals and plants. That's essentially 5 features plus full casting on both sides.

The same balance of roughly 1 feature per 2 levels plus full casting on both sides applies to the Eldritch Theurge, Sapphire Heirarch, and several others. I figured giving up a level on each side for more features, or two levels for particularly powerful features, wouldn't at all out of line.

I meant more along the lines of "I've read this multiple times and I still don't understand what half of them actually do."
Which is why something that gives a +1 to Fortitude saves Vs. Ingested poisons per level, for example, is a great way for stupid people like me to say "I actually understand what this class does."

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-10-29, 07:34 PM
I meant more along the lines of "I've read this multiple times and I still don't understand what half of them actually do."
Which is why something that gives a +1 to Fortitude saves Vs. Ingested poisons per level, for example, is a great way for stupid people like me to say "I actually understand what this class does."

Sorry about that; I tried to go for book-standard language to make it clear, but I realize some of the features are fairly complicated.

Are there any features in particular that are confusing, or is just the classes as a whole?

Chambers
2012-10-29, 08:00 PM
I'm not that familiar with Psionics so I'll leave that to others to judge, but if you're going back and forth on whether to have more dead levels I say keep them in.


I don't know about that; I like dual-progression classes that are more than just +1 level to each side. Look at the Arcane Heirophant, which gets full advancement of both types of casting and full progression of animal companion, familiar, and wild shape benefits, plus the ability to ignore ASF, the ability to combine your companion and familiar, and the ability to channel spells through animals and plants. That's essentially 5 features plus full casting on both sides.

I like them too, but they skew the game balance even further. Now instead of simply being a Wizard or Druid, the Arcane Heirophant is a Wizard and Druid with unique class features that combine and continue to advance the original class features, while also advancing dual casting. Meanwhile the non-casters throw their swords down and sob in the corner.:smallwink: (non-casters to mean those that don't have Strong Kung Fu. Wizards have Strong Kung Fu; Warblades, Incarnates, & Warlocks have good Kung Fu as well. Fighters and Monks...their Kung Fu is the weakest.)

I'm not trying to bring down the AH. My point is that if the Prestige Class is giving a significant amount of special abilities that allow the character to continue to operate at roughly the same power level as if they weren't in the prestige class, then adding full or nearly full casting is giving too much.

Also, I had a mental image of a Soliplist closing their eyes and covering their face with their hands while running around enemies shouting "You can't see me!"

JoshuaZ
2012-10-30, 08:13 AM
I like them too, but they skew the game balance even further. Now instead of simply being a Wizard or Druid, the Arcane Heirophant is a Wizard and Druid with unique class features that combine and continue to advance the original class features, while also advancing dual casting. Meanwhile the non-casters throw their swords down and sob in the corner.:smallwink: (non-casters to mean those that don't have Strong Kung Fu. Wizards have Strong Kung Fu; Warblades, Incarnates, & Warlocks have good Kung Fu as well. Fighters and Monks...their Kung Fu is the weakest.)

So classes like Arcane Heirophant are bad not so much because they add full increase but because they add a full increase on top of another double PrC (like say Mystic Theurge) and add to other class features. The fact that one can go MT to AH is where the problem there lies. If one is losing at least one caster level on each side of a PrC that's much less of an issue.

Moreover, hybrids, even with class features, are generally strictly lower in power than full casters. They are at least one spell level down compared to full casters, and can be multiple down if the class loses other levels. Look for example at the True Necromancer- 15 levels of hybrid but the loss of caster levels (along with a few other problems, but primarily the loss of caster levels) mean it is almost never played even with the flavor of the class being really neat. Similar remarks can be made about the Yathrinshee for almost identical reasons, or the Tenebrous Apostate. In general, hybrid classes can only stand with regular classes if they have close to full casting on both sides or early entry tricks. And early entry tricks essentially work primarily by making the class less hybrid and more emphasizing one side.

Answerer
2012-10-30, 02:57 PM
A Druid/Wizard/Mystic Theurge/Arcane Hierophant is weaker than a Druid or a Wizard. There is no problem. Having only ten levels, or having dual progression and no class features, just makes a class nothing more than a trap.

Chambers
2012-10-30, 08:09 PM
A Druid/Wizard/Mystic Theurge/Arcane Hierophant is weaker than a Druid or a Wizard.

I disagree.

Consider a Wizard 3/Druid 3/Arcane Hierophant 10/Mystic Theurge 4.

Wild Shape as 13th level Druid.
Companion Familiar as 13th Druid and 13th level Wizard.
9th level Wizard and 9th level Druid spells.

That is weaker than a straight Druid 20 or Wizard 20? I don't buy it. Getting dual 9's alone makes the character more powerful than the straight 20 caster. Please explain to me how having dual 9's in Druid and Wizard is weaker than Druid or Wizard by itself.

wadledo
2012-10-30, 09:45 PM
I disagree.

Consider a Wizard 3/Druid 3/Arcane Hierophant 10/Mystic Theurge 4.

Wild Shape as 13th level Druid.
Companion Familiar as 13th Druid and 13th level Wizard.
9th level Wizard and 9th level Druid spells.

That is weaker than a straight Druid 20 or Wizard 20? I don't buy it. Getting dual 9's alone makes the character more powerful than the straight 20 caster. Please explain to me how having dual 9's in Druid and Wizard is weaker than Druid or Wizard by itself.

Arguably, the fact that they rely on two stats for spellcasting abilities as well as your overall weakness up until 9th level spells is part of it, but other than that, there really isn't anything.

Answerer
2012-10-31, 01:06 AM
Dual ability dependence and the loss of an opportunity to take more powerful PrCs (which, admittedly, was not a part of my original statement nor likely a reasonable comparison for any PrC) both apply to the exact comparison you suggested.

However, you're talking about builds that are already at level 20. At which point they have their double-9s. Before that (and after level 3), they're behind in levels. At any of the 16 levels I've mentioned, they're a spell level or two behind.

Also, the Wild Shaping pales in comparison to shapechange, which both Druid and Wizard get. Polymorph and polymorph any object are pretty good stand-ins for Wild Shape at lower levels. Wild Shape is good, but ultimately spells are better.

Don't get me wrong, the Arcane Hierophant is hardly nerfing oneself. But it's also not some huge boost or "problem." The Druid and Wizard are already fantastically powerful classes; their combination should be fantastically powerful. I categorically reject the idea that a PrC should "stealth nerf" overpowered base classes. If you want to do that, you should fix the base classes.

In this case, I think a Cleric/Ardent/Divine Mind/Psychic Theurge is worse than a Cleric and probably worse than an Ardent. Where the Arcane Hierophant combines the Animal Companion and Familiar into one with great efficiency, you get a bit of ability to cross-apply effects inefficiently. (I am, of course, ignoring early entry shenanigans)

Harder to say with the Fractured Psyche, since Wilder is a bit underwhelming and the Shadowcaster, in my opinion, is best described as "disappointing." Still, I don't think that a pair of Tier 3-ish classes getting inefficiently combined (read: with many lost levels) are likely to remain as strong as they were, even with good class features.

Chambers
2012-10-31, 07:29 PM
The comparison is less favorable for the Druid/Wizard at lower levels, sure. The reason I talked about a 20th level character was that your example included both prestige classes, so that'd be a level 17 character if at least one of the theurge classes was taken to full.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-10-31, 10:51 PM
I hate to interrupt the debate on the power of arcane heirophants, but I've added a new PrC to the OP, a lurk/incarnate hybrid.

Answerer
2012-10-31, 10:54 PM
The comparison is less favorable for the Druid/Wizard at lower levels, sure. The reason I talked about a 20th level character was that your example included both prestige classes, so that'd be a level 17 character if at least one of the theurge classes was taken to full.
Ah, yeah, I mostly just meant that those would be the classes involved. Mostly by including Mystic Theurge I was trying to indicate that I was not referring to the "What now?" problem, which the Divine Mind and Fractured Psyche, at least, do not face thanks to Psychic Theurge and Cerebremancer.

Still haven't read Solipsist... really should do that.

Domriso
2012-11-01, 12:49 AM
I have to admit, I've never been a huge fan of the Lurk class, but the Ephemera Thief makes me want to play one. The abilities are just fantastic.

Draz74
2012-11-01, 01:51 AM
Well, These look great at first glance, I can't do an in depth comment right now, but will do sometime tomorrow.
QFT. Look great at first glance; no specific comments.


Well, if no one has comments on these three, are there any other psionic/X combinations people would like to see?

Well, I don't really plan to ever play 3.5e again, so my opinion might be irrelevant, but if I'm going to let my 3.5e fanboy out for a moment ... the question is really, what psionic/X combinations don't I want to see?

A Rage Mage-like PrC that combines Barbarian and Psychic Warrior could be fun.
A madness-themed PrC that combines Wilder and Binder (especially Dahlver-Nar) could be fun.
A Factotum/Shaper combo?
A PrC that lets PsyWarriors meld better with skillmonkey/warrior hybrid classes like Swordsage or Ranger?
More psionic/ToB combos in general? The Ephemeral Blade is great, but it's only one concept.

wadledo
2012-11-01, 02:48 PM
The Ephemera Thief is pretty cool, though isn't it quite a bit evil?
Change the wording on Collector of Souls so it matches the opening flavor text (i.e. stealing part of a soul, not all of it) and it's a little more ambiguous.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-11-01, 04:32 PM
The Ephemera Thief is pretty cool, though isn't it quite a bit evil?
Change the wording on Collector of Souls so it matches the opening flavor text (i.e. stealing part of a soul, not all of it) and it's a little more ambiguous.

It's not really all that evil. The souls aren't actually harmed at all by being stolen, any more than temporarily stealing essentia vie Cripple Essence or gloves of essentia theft harms someone, they're just prevented from being resurrected and/or reaching their afterlife of choice. And if you're a good ephemera thief, preventing the BBEG's minions from resurrecting him or preventing him from reaching the Abyss and reincarnating into a powerful demon bent on revenge is definitely a Good thing to do.

wadledo
2012-11-01, 04:56 PM
Anyway, why doesn't the Ephemera Thief get continued Psychic Sneak Attack progression?
It's not like it really makes that much of a difference, but it would be nice.

sreservoir
2012-11-01, 05:59 PM
Starting at 1st level, if a solipsist is unable to see a creature (because the creature is invisible, he is blind, it's completely dark and the solipsist doesn't have darkvision, or for any other reason) he gains total concealment against that creature.

the solipsist closed its eyes?

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-11-01, 06:10 PM
Anyway, why doesn't the Ephemera Thief get continued Psychic Sneak Attack progression?
It's not like it really makes that much of a difference, but it would be nice.

Not a bad idea. Changed.


the solipsist closed its eyes?

That would fall under "any other reason," yes.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-11-04, 02:53 AM
I've added a fifth PrC to the OP, inspired by Draz's psywar + skillmonkey suggestion. A similarly-themed psion + factotum PrC, the akashic scholar, is in the works, stay tuned!

EdroGrimshell
2012-11-04, 03:14 AM
Hm, what about a shaper / soulknife or egoist / soulknife combo? Or a wilder / soulknife? Or even a PsyWar / soulknife?

Those three give some pretty interesting options for making a viable soulknife and would be incredibly flavorful if done right. At least I think they would.

Xefas
2012-11-04, 04:04 AM
Well, if no one has comments on these three, are there any other psionic/X combinations people would like to see?

I had an idea for a Psionic/Binder dual progression Prestige Class, but I doubt I'll ever get to the end of my list of stuff that needs brewing to begin with, so maybe you'll get some mileage out of it.

So, you bind a Vestige to yourself, right?

Next, you manifest an Astral Construct in their likeness. This might require a Craft (Sculpting) roll, to get the looks right (as noted in the description for the Astral Construct monster).

Then, you pop the Vestige out of your head and into the Construct. The Vestige takes control, and the Construct gains additional longevity, durability, and power, in exchange for the fact that you no longer have direct absolute control over it (you can't give it orders, or willingly dismiss the power). You would need to deal with the Vestige like any other creature, though with the caveat that, eventually, their new body will expire, and they'll need you to make a new one for them. (For dramatic purposes, perhaps there is some way they can prolong their construct-body's life, to allow for things like a treacherous Vestige that thinks it can outsmart you and become independent.)

Perhaps the Construct is able to utilize the same abilities that you receive when you have them bound (fire breath and horns for Amon, etc).

Perhaps, since you no longer have the Vestige bound to you, your 'binding slot' is still open, and you can bind yet another Vestige. And, similarly, set them up with a body too, if you want. And so on.

I think it would be a neat and flavorful version of a Psionic 'minion master' type character. Almost Malconvoker-ish. Just a thought.