Actual Batman Build

[laeZ1]

So, one of my roommates got in a conversation with myself and some friends of mine. He asked how to build Batman in D&D. Our initial answers were all "Play a Wizard, have an answer to everything, find out what's going to happen, and prepare for it".

He didn't like that answer. He told us that Batman doesn't use magic, and as he understood it, wizards don't sneak arround and beat people up. Some of us tried to argue the logic behind the wizard class representing batman, while the rest of us racked our brains for an "Actual Batman Build".

I'm turning to the playground for more inspiration and help. I'm thinking dipping into Factotum (all knowledges, plus a hardy UMD), with ninja into Justicar (I think batman has a thing for nonlethal damage), but I'm not the biggest batman fan, and the roommate in question has been one for a couple decades at least. Anybody out there with both a good understanding of Batman and of 3.5 that might be able to help us think this one through?

Edit: Which class is it that gives a butt-load of skill points and all skills?

[Zonugal]

In E6 I like a build like this:

Human Rogue 1/Artificer 3/Warblade 1/Rogue 1.

[Talionis]

List of Batman's real abilities


Top Tier Human Martial Artist
Super Intelligent
World's Greatest Detective
Billionaire
Training as a Non-Magical Illusionist & Escape Artist
Training in Yoga/Mystical (able to hold his breathe, etc)
Ability to Intimidate and Cause Fear
Resists Immune to Fear
Able to assume Disguises


Can anyone think of more of Batman's actual powers?

[Eldariel]

Okay, the first thing:
Batman's stats are ridiculous. While he's merely a normal human, he displays insane Charisma (his whole playboy persona is built around this), Wisdom (there's nary a person who's as perceptive as he is), Strength (while his abilities are based around his skills and training, he has displayed incredible pure strength on occasion), Dexterity (just look at him jump around, avoid blows, etc. His whole combat is based on this), Constitution (the hits he takes while surviving aren't even human) and most importantly, his Intelligence (he's spelled out as like Top 5 most intelligent humans in the whole DC mythos and heis capable of outthinking deities, semi-omniscient machines and so on).

This says to me he'd need to have as high every stat as humanly possible on character creation; I'd say he's 18s across the board. Now then, his abilities:
He clearly has access to every skill. His Intimidation is near-legendary (he can break unbreakable people in short moments), he knows just about everything, his combat acrobatics are more than extraordinary, he is near-superhuman in basically every physical feat possible, his Diplomacy is more than adequate, there's nary a more perceptive person than him.


Factotum seems like a given. You could probably make do with high level Factotum, just leaving out the spellcasting (obviously Batman doesn't know how to cast spells). Clearly Int is his highest stat so all his level-ups go to Int and he probably has then some. Combined with his high stats, this gives him near-incomparable everything early on.

With the martial Unarmed Prowess he showcases, I'm thinking Unarmed Swordsage (again ignoring the magical schools; but he clearly has access to Setting Sun and Diamond Mind at least) multiclassed with Factotum. Alternatively, he could be straight Factotum; Cunning Brilliance could probably cover everything in his arsenal. Though again, his gadgets are also a big part of him so Artificer could kinda make sense. That's the other way to go but Artificer can't showcase his talents in skills sufficiently. It also gets Infusions which he'll have no part in; he doesn't do Field Rebuilds, he's prepared and already has all the tools needed.


Factotum 8/Unarmed Swordsage -> could work. Factotum 19 could also work. I'm not rightly sure.

[RFLS]

Swordsage with a focus on Setting Sun actually does a good job at mimicking his martial arts ability.

[Talionis]

I don't think he needs Artificer, the artificer is Lucius Fox, or someone else that he buys the technology from.

Batman isn't building the Batmobile. Batman buys the Batmobile. What little assembly Batman does to his devices is solely to keep his personal identity secret.

Batman does need Use Magical Device though.

[RFLS]

I don't think he needs Artificer, the artificer is Lucius Fox, or someone else that he buys the technology from.

Batman isn't building the Batmobile. Batman buys the Batmobile. What little assembly Batman does to his devices is solely to keep his personal identity secret.

Batman does need Use Magical Device though.

So uhm....he actually does build his own stuff in most of the comics; the Batman you've presented is straight out of the most recent movies. If that's what you're drawing from, that's fine, just...be aware that that may not be what the OP is going for.

[eggs]

Eh. Batman's been done so many times in so many ways that I'd be surprised if saying Batman's Bat-Things grow like fungus in the batcave wouldn't have at least one comic arc to back it up.

But Artificer's Spell-Storing Item infusion is what Bat-Shark-Repellant-Spray is made of. I like Artificer 20 for this. Probably with Able Learner, Darkstalker and Improved/Superior Unarmed Strike and Snap kick.

[sdream]

You don't need crazy ability scores at generation.

Batman was not born super strong and tough, his extensive training results in someone who is as effective as super strong and tough normal person...

In other words, he has a high level.


Any intelligent character with good brawling skills, like a kung-fu genius would be fine. After that it's all role-playing and painting bats on his gear.

[Talionis]

The problem is that Artificer is going to significantly pull him away from melee combatant. You'll spend so much design space on being able to build your own batmobile and batarangs that there won't be much room left for punch you in the mouth.

[Eldariel]

You don't need crazy ability scores at generation.

Batman was not born super strong and tough, his extensive training results in someone who is as effective as super strong and tough normal person...

In other words, he has a high level.

High level doesn't affect his ability scores meaningfully though (besides giving him Int closer to what you'd expect it to be). D&D doesn't model training to increase your strength; your carrying capacity and strength-checks to e.g. break objects (something he's quite good at) stays the same no matter how high your level is. Batman excels at the basic level attribute checks too.

As such, not only does he need to be high level but his attributes need to be high too. Well, it's clear his Int needs to be astronomical but I'm not going to buy he has under 16 Strength either. D&D character can't go to the gym 2 times a day to increase his Strength. As such, I'm only left to assume the strength assigned already factors in all the training you can perform and a D&D adventurer is simply never out of shape.

[ahenobarbi]

The problem is that Artificer is going to significantly pull him away from melee combatant. You'll spend so much design space on being able to build your own batmobile and batarangs that there won't be much room left for punch you in the mouth.

So gestalt it with unarmed Swordsage? Or use Metagamer (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Metagamer_%28DnD_Class%29) hombrew :smallwink:

[nedz]

Aristocrat 20.
Aristocrat has most of the skills he uses.

Its just that the villains are low op also.

[Fable Wright]

Factotum seems like a given. You could probably make do with high level Factotum, just leaving out the spellcasting (obviously Batman doesn't know how to cast spells). Clearly Int is his highest stat so all his level-ups go to Int and he probably has then some. Combined with his high stats, this gives him near-incomparable everything early on.


If magic exists in a universe, Batman has it. You could just fluff it as having exactly the right Bat-Gadget at the right time, and it would fit right in for him. Give him Improved Unarmed Strike, and he seems like a straight Factotum to me.

Also, one thing's for certain: That utility belt is a Belt of Magnificence in addition to a spell component pouch. Nothing else explains ability scores like that...

[Emperor Tippy]

Stats: Straight 18's.
Template: Dark
Classes: Gestalt Factotum 20// Monk 3/Swordsage (perhaps warblade instead) 17. - This is the easiest possibility, I would throw in various PRC's and 1 level dips if I was doing it for myself.

Items, Feats, and Skills are a lot more iffy (although tons of Font of Inspiration is a must, and I might go fighter 20 on half of the gestalt to simply Chaos Shuffle all of the Fighter Bonus Feats into FoI; Feat Rogue is also a possibility).

[Eldariel]

If magic exists in a universe, Batman has it. You could just fluff it as having exactly the right Bat-Gadget at the right time, and it would fit right in for him. Give him Improved Unarmed Strike, and he seems like a straight Factotum to me.

Also, one thing's for certain: That utility belt is a Belt of Magnificence in addition to a spell component pouch. Nothing else explains ability scores like that...

Magic exists in DCverse and Batman does not have it tho. You have Dr. Fate, Zatanna, etc. as honest-to-god magicians (not to mention many deities and so on), but Batman can't use it.

[Tvtyrant]

It is simple. Paragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/paragonCreature.htm) human Factotum 5. He has +18 in any skill he has maxed, and +10 in all other skills. Gets a giant boost to AC (+29), a +25 to attack, +20 to damage, etc. He is naturally good at everything.

[Telonius]

It is simple. Paragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/paragonCreature.htm) human Factotum 5. He has +18 in any skill he has maxed, and +10 in all other skills. Gets a giant boost to AC (+29), a +25 to attack, +20 to damage, etc. He is naturally good at everything.

I like this idea. Though he does need some way to avoid Blashpemy/Word of Chaos/other HD-dependent effects.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Shax's Indispensable Haversack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148101) with enough wealth to continually replenish its contents. Be sure to have both a Haversack and a Belt of Hidden Pouches full of stuff off those lists. Get a (few) amazing vehicle(s) with Animate Objects + Permanency.

Other than that, just some sort of strong martial-arts build, I'd get mostly Unarmed Swordsage with a few levels of Warblade strategically mixed in. Pick your Warblade levels to get Battle Leader's Charge, Iron Heart Surge, X Tornado, and Xing Mongoose along with a few other cherry-picked maneuvers to use the superior recovery method with them. With sixteen Unarmed Swordsage and four Warblade you'll get a +16 BAB at 20th level. It probably won't be able to handle high-op opponents without tons of creativity, but that's what Batman is all about.

[ericgrau]

I don't think you could make an exact duplicate. To fit a similar concept I think you'd need some kind of martial build with a ton of purchased, not usually crafted, magic items. Maybe UMD or a 1 level caster dip for even more items. Mechanically int is a dump stat, but for roleplaying and to justify your insane planning with your magic items you need to pump it. Since again this isn't an exact duplicate a 14 int seems plenty; after all the player himself is only so smart and the DM won't allow everything anyway.

[Talionis]

Two level dip in Chameleon would give him the floating feat he can use to pick up the appropriate Crafting feats for the items he needs. Batman would have enough intelligence to craft. Chameleon also grants all Arcane and Divine spells up to sixth level so you can use those to craft. Chameleon also has the disguise feature which Batman uses especially to gather information.

Factotum is the best single class to emulate Batman, but it isn't perfect.

There is a class that has a Bat Belt feature where you can roll to see if you actually have any mundane item and then you pay for it and you have it. Can't remember the class or prestige class now, maybe in the Fiend Folio?

Un armored Swordsage gets the attacks and boosts that can help. I particularly like the Shadow Hand boost that grants improved invisibility til the end of you turn for the way Batman always seems to just disappear, but its not actually magical.

[SiuiS]

If magic exists in a universe, Batman has it. You could just fluff it as having exactly the right Bat-Gadget at the right time, and it would fit right in for him. Give him Improved Unarmed Strike, and he seems like a straight Factotum to me.

Also, one thing's for certain: That utility belt is a Belt of Magnificence in addition to a spell component pouch. Nothing else explains ability scores like that...

Incarnum. Incarnum gives you daily bat gadgets.

[Fable Wright]

Magic exists in DCverse and Batman does not have it tho. You have Dr. Fate, Zatanna, etc. as honest-to-god magicians (not to mention many deities and so on), but Batman can't use it.

Fair enough. What I meant to say was, if magic can be taught, Batman would (most likely) learn it. In the DC Verse (citing wikipedia as my only source of knowledge on the subject; I do not collect comics), magical knowledge does not seem to be something anyone can learn, unlike in D&D. It seems that you need to have magic in your blood (Homo Magi; it's genetic), be imbued with magic by another entity (Lords of Order and Chaos), or harness naturally occurring magic (Lazarus Pits); it's not necessarily something anyone can just learn. Still, just refluffing the spells as appropriate gadgets would work well, given that he only has one use of them, he needs to prepare them ahead of time, and he doesn't need to spend lots of time researching and developing them, and they can do just about anything. You also can't disrupt his use of them without highly concerted effort, he can use them without ritual (being SLAs and all, no Somatic or Verbal components, no AoOs, etc.), and if it exists, there's a spell to deal with it.

[ericgrau]

That and there aren't technological ways to make gadgets, but there are plenty of pre-existing magical "gadgets".

I tend to give a lot of my characters a "utility belt". Casters get scrolls but even my non casters get lots of other expendables. Whatever the challenge I had it. When we needed a large animal, I pulled out my elephant. On recent characters I've been trying to cut back.

[Malroth]

Batman isn't super humanly strong or incredibly fast, hes's incredibly well trained and uses INT for EVERYTHING!!!. I'm thinking Factotum with a monk dip that somehow got into the Eternal blade prestigue class. He's got kung fu genius, Keen intellect, and Insightful reflexes.

[rockdeworld]

So he bluffs gods you say? Well then, why not:
Human Swordsage 20 / Factotum 20 (minus spellcasting)
Feats: something, something, something, Font of Inspiration x7, Craft Technology

[DarkEternal]

I'm also pretty sure that Harold builds a lot of the things in his Bat cave for Bats to use. At least it was Harold, back in the nineties.

[Threadnaught]

Going Core only, you can in fact combine Monk class levels with some Rogue class levels, max out Use Magic Device to get the "gadgets" and sneak around punching stuff like Batman.

[Talionis]

I'm also pretty sure that Harold builds a lot of the things in his Bat cave for Bats to use. At least it was Harold, back in the nineties.

Thank you. I thought Batman had a mechanic.

[anacalgion]

Personally I think avenging executioner (complete scoundrel I think) works really well for making Batman scary. Worth the five levels it takes. Other than that I second kung fu genius monk

[Gavinfoxx]

Factotum with that homebrew Tome of Battle option to replace the spell like abilities? Where is that?

[Zonugal]

In a longer, traditional game I might approach Batman like this:

Human Rogue 2/Urban Ranger 1/Hit & Run Sneak Attack Fighter 1/Rogue 2/Unarmed Swordsage 2/Artificer 5/Rogue 1/Zhentarim Spy (changed to non-evil) 5/Unarmed Swordsage 1

But I still think E6 is a better system to represent Batman.

[dascarletm]

Batman isn't really that high-op, his player just plays smarter than anyone else. Superman is the high optimizer.

[roguemetal]

Batman isn't that ridiculous on his own beyond having amazing experience. Any number of basic builds would work for him. His real abilities have to do with his equipment, which aren't hard to replicate but are usually higher level than anything his opponents use, his contacts which can be gained through leadership, and the supporting writers at DC who give Batman ideal timing, e.g. a DM that allows Batman to exist.

You might want to look at "The Utility Belt" (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=3d7801a927efe9d32617863ef4a904 39&topic=4400.0) for preparing Batman.

I ran a Batman build a while back. The Bat-mask was too much for them.

[Zonugal]

It really depends on what type of Batman you are talking about.

The film versions of Batman would probably be within 6 levels.

BTAS Batman is probably around 10th level.

Justice League [Unlimited] & DC events Batman is around 20th level.

[Hecuba]

Thank you. I thought Batman had a mechanic.

He was retconned away a couple reboots ago, if I recall. Though in the interrum, Hiro Okamura did regularly make some batmobiles for him.

This points out an underlying issue: which Batman? You need the player to describe Batman to make this a reasonable venture.

Why?

{table=head]Cannon|Also Cannon
Batman stands a decent chance of losing against Bane|Batman takes 4(5?) Martians at once without a scratch
The batcave is protected by a clock, a waterfall, and a fake wall|The batcave has regularly renewed magical safeguards teleportation and divination and sufficient technological protection to shunt off a boom tube
Batman has a mechanic for the car and gadgets|Batman does the final assembly of each of his many batmobiles by hand (with help from Alfred, robin, etc) and manually files the tracable information off of each component of the gadgets before assembling them
[/table]

[SpaceBadger]

Magic exists in DCverse and Batman does not have it tho. You have Dr. Fate, Zatanna, etc. as honest-to-god magicians (not to mention many deities and so on), but Batman can't use it.

Heh heh. You should know that if you make flat statements about a comics character there will be some storyline somewhere to contradict you. :smallsmile:

In the 1990s comics that were based on the Batman Animated series and spinoffs, Bruce was a student of Zatarra in his pre-Batman tour-the-world-and-learn-everything phase, and therefor at least a competent journeyman at magic when stories required it.

[Eldariel]

Heh heh. You should know that if you make flat statements about a comics character there will be some storyline somewhere to contradict you. :smallsmile:

In the 1990s comics that were based on the Batman Animated series and spinoffs, Bruce was a student of Zatarra in his pre-Batman tour-the-world-and-learn-everything phase, and therefor at least a competent journeyman at magic when stories required it.

I don't think those count as current DC canon though, do they? :smalltongue:

[Zonugal]

Heh heh. You should know that if you make flat statements about a comics character there will be some storyline somewhere to contradict you. :smallsmile:

In the 1990s comics that were based on the Batman Animated series and spinoffs, Bruce was a student of Zatarra in his pre-Batman tour-the-world-and-learn-everything phase, and therefor at least a competent journeyman at magic when stories required it.

So he has the Magic Training regional feat?

[roguemetal]

I don't think those count as current DC canon though, do they? :smalltongue:
Is there something in DC they decided to NOT make canon?

[nedz]

Some kind of Doublethink is required here then.

Batman is a Wizard and he doesn't use magic.

Batman is an Artificer and he doesn't make anything.

The title of the thread is Actual Batman Build and there is no Actual Batman to base this on.

[Spuddles]

Okay, the first thing:
Batman's stats are ridiculous. While he's merely a normal human, he displays insane Charisma (his whole playboy persona is built around this), Wisdom (there's nary a person who's as perceptive as he is), Strength (while his abilities are based around his skills and training, he has displayed incredible pure strength on occasion), Dexterity (just look at him jump around, avoid blows, etc. His whole combat is based on this), Constitution (the hits he takes while surviving aren't even human) and most importantly, his Intelligence (he's spelled out as like Top 5 most intelligent humans in the whole DC mythos and heis capable of outthinking deities, semi-omniscient machines and so on).


Disagree on the 18 charisma- he's pretty bad with people. Being a playboy billionaire only requires that you have, well, a billion dollars.

[Dienekes]

Disagree on the 18 charisma- he's pretty bad with people. Being a playboy billionaire only requires that you have, well, a billion dollars.

Sort of, he's good with people and can inspire and lead them. But if you stay with him for too long he will inevitably drive you away. I have no idea how to represent this in ability scores, seems more like a roleplaying thing.

Unless you're Alfred.

Or we're talking about Adam West, Silver Age, or BTBATB Batman, then he just has high Charisma.

Also as to the mechanic thing. Batman can, and does make his own stuff. However due to time restraints or because he really needs a specialists touch he uses folks like Harold (thought he died not got rebooted away) and Fox.

Also, I thought in the comic where he trains with Zatanna he wasn't actually able to learn anything more than sleight of hand, and instead just learned about magic in case he ever had to face it. Though I may be confusing my storylines there.

[dascarletm]

He probably has his own Homebrew class. I told the DM it was too good, but he didn't listen

Stupid Rule of Cool

[Talionis]

Disagree on the 18 charisma- he's pretty bad with people. Being a playboy billionaire only requires that you have, well, a billion dollars.

Being the playboy is a disguise for Batman; Bruce Wayne is a disguise. Batman is very good at manipulating people and getting what he wants when he wants to be. Intelligence is almost certainly his highest stat, and I'm not saying this would need to be superhuman, but I think he would be at least 16-18 range or plus depending on the incarnation of Batman we are talking about it might be much higher.

You use Charisma for a lot of skills which Batman would be pretty good at:


Intimidate -- Very High
Bluff -- Ridiculously High
Magical/Psionic Device -- Probably good for him to be good at in a game where this equivocates to technology.
Perform -- Acting
Disguise -- High
Gather Information -- Very High
Handle Animal -- I think untrained though I'm sure some obscure comic says otherwise
Diplomacy -- I'm unsure how high, but high
Sense Motive -- Very High

Leadership Feat -- Which Batman is probably most famous for not only having sidekick(s), but also being a leader of the Justice League especially once on mission.

[Spuddles]

Being the playboy is a disguise for Batman; Bruce Wayne is a disguise. Batman is very good at manipulating people and getting what he wants when he wants to be. Intelligence is almost certainly his highest stat, and I'm not saying this would need to be superhuman, but I think he would be at least 16-18 range or plus depending on the incarnation of Batman we are talking about it might be much higher.

You use Charisma for a lot of skills which Batman would be pretty good at:


Intimidate -- Very High
Bluff -- Ridiculously High
Magical/Psionic Device -- Probably good for him to be good at in a game where this equivocates to technology.
Perform -- Acting
Disguise -- High
Gather Information -- Very High
Handle Animal -- I think untrained though I'm sure some obscure comic says otherwise
Diplomacy -- I'm unsure how high, but high
Sense Motive -- Very High

Leadership Feat -- Which Batman is probably most famous for not only having sidekick(s), but also being a leader of the Justice League especially once on mission.

Batman probably has 15 HD, like most superheroes. 15HD gets him +18 in those skills, and that's ignoring items, feats and class abilities. Robin is also like level 4, which can't mean batman has a very high charisma. Batman might be good at those things, but it's not because he's charismatic. He's a near pyschopathic loner who always ends up hurting everyone. The +4 he would get for naturally being good at something is better represented by once per encounter adding
his 15 levels of factotum to the check.

[Talionis]

Batman probably has 15 HD, like most superheroes. 15HD gets him +18 in those skills, and that's ignoring items, feats and class abilities. Robin is also like level 4, which can't mean batman has a very high charisma. Batman might be good at those things, but it's not because he's charismatic. He's a near pyschopathic loner who always ends up hurting everyone. The +4 he would get for naturally being good at something is better represented by once per encounter adding
his 15 levels of factotum to the check.

I'll concede that Factotum is a better way to emulate these skills, but you are conceding the need for the skill boost to emulate Batman. You only get the proper level of skill in a mostly Factotum chassis.

FYI link to discussion about the utility belt: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4400.0

[Spuddles]

I'll concede that Factotum is a better way to emulate these skills, but you are conceding the need for the skill boost to emulate Batman. You only get the proper level of skill in a mostly Factotum chassis.

FYI link to discussion about the utility belt: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4400.0

Well... duh. The only way to get the proper level of anything for any superhero if you're going to account for everything he ever did according to every author, you're going to need "boosts". Really, factotum on all the things is probably best, and maybe some paragon templates.

Even the hulk has int 18+.

[Careless]

He could have a homebrewed Wander's Diplomacy from PHB II (assuming I have the name right), which lets you make rushed checks at reduced penalty, but in a little while they like you less. The homebrew could give him a temporary bonus, with the same repercussion. Obviously this doesn't work if you go purely using 1st party stuff, but we're making Batman, we need some leeway.

[Spider_Jerusalem]

If magic exists in a universe, Batman has it.

I'm sorry, but this is just not true. Magic does indeed exist in the DC universe, and ol' chap Bats doesn't have any of it.

EDIT: Well, now that I've read the whole thread, I noticed that this issue has actually been talked about. Feel stupid now. Will submerge head in acid to purge hasty stupidness.

[Zonugal]

I'd honestly put Batman's stats somewhere around:

Str 18, Dex 18, Con 18, Int 18, Wis 16, Cha 16


Batman probably has 15 HD, like most superheroes.

How do you reason?


Robin is also like level 4, which can't mean batman has a very high charisma.

Once again, how do you reason?


Batman might be good at those things, but it's not because he's charismatic. He's a near pyschopathic loner who always ends up hurting everyone.

That just makes him a mean & harsh loner, not anti-charismatic. At least not in the way D&D would approach charisma.

[Ravenica]

I'd put him as a dex based rogue with a ToB dip with high int, and wis, mid cha and con and str being dump stats.

UMD would be his goto skill (gadgets are not class features)he's good in a fight but certainly not the best, he's clearly highly skilled with good decision making abilities and plenty of presence. Certainly more agile than strong he uses precision damage, tactics, and stealth to disable foes rather than a straight up fight.

Balance, Jump, Disable Device, Escape Artist, Spot, Search, Hide/Move Silent, some knowledge skills, Intimidate, Perform(Acting), Slight of hand, tumble and UMD would be the trained skills, though he may have a single rank in nearly everything.

Optimized for dealing non-lethal sneak damage. With a gadget for everything that won't work on :smallbiggrin:

[Jack_Simth]

I like this idea. Though he does need some way to avoid Blashpemy/Word of Chaos/other HD-dependent effects."Spell resistance equal to the paragon creature’s CR +25. If the creature already possesses spell resistance, use whichever is higher."

Paragon is a +15 CR template. Which would put Batman's SR at 45 with the specified build. Good enough against most spells by most casters (unless they're optimizing or very high level, of course).

But yes: I'm on the side of "Factotum-based, refluff the spells as gadgets"

[Talionis]

Gestalt

20 Factotum / / 5 Unarmed Swordsage / 2 Chameleon / 5 Master Thrower / X

Factotum should be one side to represent how well Batman uses Intelligence for everything and his ability to use so many skills so well. Spells need to be refluffed to be Gadgets, but it also gives him access to all sorts of spells for crafting.

Unarmed Swordsage allows you unarmed attack and some special attacks, you just need to pick carefully for flavor.

Chameleon two allows for the floating feat ability. I think this is huge because it shows Batmans ability to narrow his focus to a particular talent when necessary. It covers the need so many have for Batman to do his own crafting in his downtime and have the feat be useful in campaigns. It could also show his ability to plan how best to chase down and defeat his current prey. Also gives access to all spell types for crafting. Think his ability to craft cures for Mr. freeze or the Man Bat, since cures are often Divine.

Master Thrower because he often throws a whole cache of Batarangs, he does so with skill and can use them to pull off many of the tricks found under Master Thrower.

This would leave the last eight levels to get features that help him as a detective.

[Talionis]

I found this list of all the training that Batman did in the comics:

No, there is no full ordered training chronology. And I am quite glad. DC smartly maintains the fun and flexible air of mystery for how precisely Batman became Batman (by training). The Shadow and other pulp heroes also had vagueness as to their training. Yet DC smartly has also give us many portions of Bruce's training, as covered by Batman's long history of writers.

Here's what we have so far:

1.Kirigi - Martial Arts- Bat #431
2.David Cain - Martial Arts - Det #734
3.Henri Ducard - Martial Arts, Marksmanship - Det #599
4.Chu Chin Li - Martial Arts - Det #599
5.Tsunetomo - Martial Arts - Det Ann #3
6.Willie Doggett - Manhunting, Survival Techniques - LOTDK #1
7.Harvey Harris - Detective Work - Det Ann #2
8.Dan Mallory - Trailing, Detective Work - Bat Chron #6
9.Shao La - Taoism - LOTDK #52
10.? La Salle - Body Building - Bat #435
11.Frederick Stone - Demolitions - Bat #435
12.Mark Jenner – Driving - Bat #435
13.Peter Allison - Gymnastics - Bat #435
14.Raphael Digiorda – Archery - Bat #435
15.Aurelius Boch - Toxicology - Bat #435
16.? Webber - Acids - Bat #435
17.? Shastri – Ophidia - Bat #435
18.? Campbell - Electronics (presumed) - Bat #435
19.Unnamed Knife Expert - Knives - Bat #435
20.? Kingsley – Chemistry - Bat #434
21.Alfred Pennyworth - Disguises, Acting, Vocal Mimicry - Bat Ann #13
22.Ted Grant – Boxing - Robin #31
23.Oliver Queen - Archery - GA #134
24.Richard Dragon – Martial Arts - RD#3
25.John Zatara – Sleight Of Hand, Arcane Mysteries, Ventriloquism, Escapology - JLA:BB #2, Det #827, Det '833.
26.Max Dodge - Escapology - B:GK #29
27.Arthur McKee - Maintaining Criminal Aliases - Bat #589
28.The Rhana Bhutra - Peace (presumed) – Superman: The Odyssey
29.The Ten-Eyed Tribes Of The Empty Quarter – 52#30
30.The Lamas Of Nanda Parbat – Unknown – Bat #663
31.Unnamed Medical Examiner - Coroner's Work - B:GK #1
32.Unnamed Convicted Killer - Savate - B:SOTB #0
33.Unnamed Ninjas - Using Shadows, Psychology Of Fear - B:SOTB #0
34.Unnamed Monks - Healing Arts - Ultimate Guide
35.Unnamed Bushmen - Reading Environment, Hunting - B:SOTB #0
36.Unnamed Cattlemen - Bolas Use - Ultimate Guide
37.Unnamed Yanomami Hunters - Blowpipe Use - Ultimate Guide
38. FBI (Man Who Falls) (to join the FBI, you must get trained)
39. prestigious European universities like Cambridge, Sorbonne, etc (SotB 0)
40. Barrett Kean (Det 227) (art of disguise)
41. Lee Collins (Det 244) (boomerang throwing (batarangs))

[AshurKane]

So...for the people who said Batman cannot have 18 Str, you cannot be more wrong!! He totally has 18 Str, Bane is human true. Bane also would have a base STR of 18 and also uses a somewhat lethal combo of roids...if he never put 1 more point in Str we could extrapolate that his gogo juice in DnD is a potion emulating Bulls Str, Bear Endurance, and Rage...giving him 24 Str! And Killer Croc being an anthropomorphic Croc gets a +8 Str +2 Dex +6 Con...after base 18..he gets 26 Str...both stronger than the Batman but not naturally so thanks!!

[AshurKane]

Also another note...so the Ninja Class is basically a lazy rogue class with black pajamas..I reworked it into a prestige class so I made a Batman with Gestalt Rogue/Monk(10) , Ninja 10, Vigilante 5 (I believe he IS epic) replace the spells (1st, 2nd, 3rd) with 3 feats. Then give him access to every equipment he might use, gnome grapple xbow in a hand variety etc Cloak of the Bat does his floating around hanging around flying a little it's all there ... been watching Dawn of Justice too much? YES

[KingSmitty]

Psychic Rogue would be really good for Batman, so long as you portray it as a "sixth sense for crime" or what have you and stick to mainly self-buffs...it would work rather well. the class abilities are very Batman-ish.

And of course show Heward's Handy Haversack to your DM and ask for a similar item but a belt, shouldn't be much work to negotiate a price. Would probably hold less since it isnt a bookbag so you could get it a bit cheaper.

[khadgar567]

İf pathfinder on table than he is gestalt vigilante/ martial class
What he has from that build
Dual identity( batman and bruce wayne)
Vigilante talents( any focus you want)
Good martial ability
So here is true bats with 90% mundane power

[Jay R]

When he began adventuring, in Detective Comics #27, he was an above average martial artist (punch, hip throw, and a flying tackle) with acrobatics skill, a small amount of detective ability, and a rope to swing on, and nothing else.

All the rest was from WBL and experience. He started using gas pellets in #29, a bat-gyro and a baterang (later spelled batarang) in #31, etc.

And he's been collecting experience points since 1939.

[Telonius]

::throws up the bat signal:: Ra's al Ghul has clearly been at work in the Lazarus pit.

[AshurKane]

Gotta love it when someone casts True Resurrection on an old topic:-)

[DarkSoul]

The pathfinder Vigilante is the go-to class for creating masked superheroes. There's even a spider-man archetype. So call him human Vigilante 20 and build him around that.

[Seppo87]

Not gestalt, I would definitely go:
Factotum 8, Martial Monk 2 (kung fu genius), Warblade 10
Alternate between factotum and Warblade to get a smoother progression, keeping skills and IL high as needed.

Use Cunning Surge for multiple strikes nova or quick maneuvers recharge. Choose only mundane-ish, thematically appropriate maneuvers.
Treat defensive maneuvers as being plot armor (i.e. Iron Heart Surge)

Refluff those few spells as consumable gadgets (i.e. magic missile = batarang), use often Heroics and describe it as an ability of adapting to any opponent

Mandatory feats: Knowledge devotion, Font of Inspiration multiple times.


If you care about fluff more than the mechanics and don't feel comfortable with the occasional refluff, then Justiciar becomes the only option available, unfortunately it's far from good.

[P.F.]

But Artificer's Spell-Storing Item infusion is what Bat-Shark-Repellant-Spray is made of. I like Artificer 20 for this. Probably with Able Learner, Darkstalker and Improved/Superior Unarmed Strike and Snap kick.

Adam West was the best! Score one for the Artificer-Batman.


Aristocrat 20.
Aristocrat has most of the skills he uses.

Its just that the villains are low op also.

Nedz takes the prize for best Bruce Wayne build.


Batman isn't super humanly strong or incredibly fast, hes's incredibly well trained and uses INT for EVERYTHING!!!. I'm thinking Factotum with a monk dip that somehow got into the Eternal blade prestigue class. He's got kung fu genius, Keen intellect, and Insightful reflexes.

I love the idea, mechanically, of being Int-primary and using that Int bonus for everything. Score one for the Factotum-Batman!


Not gestalt, I would definitely go:
Factotum 8, Martial Monk 2 (kung fu genius), Warblade 10

And one for the Warblade-Batman!

Ultimately, I think either Factotum or Artificer will serve as a batman base class, but adding some serious martial power to the character will allow him to get into the fray and <POW!> <SMACK!> <ZING!> his enemies directly.

[Gildedragon]

Yes factotum is the most likely 3.5 base, with uncanny trickster 3 worked in (he seems fond of skill tricks)
But feats needed:
KF genius or Carmedine Monk (monk dip)
Iron Wyrm Vault: Tactile Trapsmith
Otyurgh hole granted: Skill Focus (Intimidate)
Kn Dev

[Nizaris]

Gestalt is really the only way to cover just how well rounded of a mundane he is without going epic.

Factotum 17(19) / Uncanny Trickster 3 // Unarmed Swordsage 5 / Chameleon 2 / Avenging Executioner 5 / Master Thrower 5 / Warblade 3

Factotum provides Int to everything and spells needed for crafting, UTrickster provides more trick usage for only one level lost in Factotum.

On the martial side, Swordsage provides Setting Sun and Shadow Hand, Warblade will net him Iron Heart Surge. Chameleon is of course for the floating feat, Avenging Executioner (DM allows it to work on non-lethal attacks) scares the hell out of anyone around him as he stalks from the shadows, and Master Thrower lets him toss batarangs better.

I would probably say Batman's really a Tristalt with Vigilante (Stalker) 20 for the Renown and Safe House social talents and the stealth based vigilante talents.

The Robins would only be gestalts.

[Gildedragon]

Gestalt is really the only way to cover just how well rounded of a mundane he is without going epic.

Factotum 17(19) / Uncanny Trickster 3 // Unarmed Swordsage 5 / Chameleon 2 / Avenging Executioner 5 / Master Thrower 5 / Warblade 3

Factotum provides Int to everything and spells needed for crafting, UTrickster provides more trick usage for only one level lost in Factotum.

On the martial side, Swordsage provides Setting Sun and Shadow Hand, Warblade will net him Iron Heart Surge. Chameleon is of course for the floating feat, Avenging Executioner (DM allows it to work on non-lethal attacks) scares the hell out of anyone around him as he stalks from the shadows, and Master Thrower lets him toss batarangs better.

I would probably say Batman's really a Tristalt with Vigilante (Stalker) 20 for the Renown and Safe House social talents and the stealth based vigilante talents.

The Robins would only be gestalts.

Eh gestalt would be enough with the landlord feat and ranks in disguise and bluff would be enough, alongside ranks in the stealth skills.

[Renen]

Just be a were-bat?

[Agrippa]

Just be a were-bat?

That's Man-Bat (http://batman.wikia.com/wiki/Man-Bat) not Batman, two completely different characters.

[SangoProduction]

Also, Batman only needs 4-5 hours sleep a day, in 30 minute chunks. No race properly represents that, but the closest you'll get is the Elf. You could also go with Warforged, but then you just straight don't need rest (unless you need to heal) at all, and that's further off than the elf's rest time.

[Seppo87]

Also, Batman only needs 4-5 hours sleep a day, in 30 minute chunks. No race properly represents that, but the closest you'll get is the Elf.
I'd note that making Batman, a canonical human, an elf for just this single mechanical benefit, while having to take all the other mechanical and appearence-based aspects that don't represent Bruce Wayne makes absolutely no sense.