Can not gestalt today, I has the dumbs.

[PaperMustache]

My group is running a level 15 gestalt campaign using 3.5 and Pathfinder, basically anything we kind find a source for can be used. I have no idea what kind of character to make or even where to start. Any ideas?

[Zombulian]

Hmm, Shifter Ranger Sub 4/Barbarian 1/Weretouched Master 5/Primeval 5//Druid shifter sub 7/Hexer 8.
Some low ability dependance. Wis and Strength is about it. All bout that pure animalistic savagery!

[kardar233]

Try Half-elf Synthesist Summoner//Sorcadin.

Or Bard4/Pouncebarian1/Shou Disciple1/Warblade14//Warlock6/Paladin2/Cloistered Cleric1/Hellfire Warlock3/Legacy Champion8. Needs Eldritch Claws and Beast Strike (Dragon #358 and #355) but it really works.

[Snowbluff]

Life Oracle3/Paladin12//Sorcerer4/Binder1/AnimaMage10

Orasorcdin! Heal for few action and be a Gish!

[Emperor Tippy]

Factotum//Warblade, Factotum//Psion, and Factotum//Wizard are all good choices.

Wizard//Psion is one of the best caster builds in the game. As is Wizard//Archivist.

Do you want a caster? An assassin? A skill monkey? A tank?

[PaperMustache]

I was leaning towards a caster because apparently we don't have a full caster yet. Wizard/Scion sounds interesting.

[Darius Kane]

Life Oracle3/Paladin12//Sorcerer4/Binder1/AnimaMage10
Dual casting prcs are STRONGLY discouraged, almost not allowed, by gestalt rules.

[Snowbluff]

Dual casting prcs are STRONGLY discouraged, almost not allowed, by gestalt rules.

Yeah. I really didn't have a suggestion for it, so I just put anima mage.

[Jeff the Green]

Dual casting prcs are STRONGLY discouraged, almost not allowed, by gestalt rules.

A particularly silly rule, actually, given that dual-progression PrCs are almost universally weaker than single-class casters and that dual-progression PrCs outside of DMG give abilities other than just dual progression.

For casting, I like beguiler 5/wild mage 1/beguiler x//archivist y. Full spontaneous and prepared casting, UMD for the few spells you can't cast natively, minor skillmonkeying, and a CL 0-5 higher than your level. It's awesome for summoning, since illusions of summons are sometimes just as good as the real thing. Be an Uurkrau illumian to change your archivist spells/day from Wisdom to Dexterity, and then you only need Intelligence, Dexterity, and Constitution (or dump Constitution and be a necropolitan).

[Mishkov]

I was leaning towards a caster because apparently we don't have a full caster yet. Wizard/Scion sounds interesting.

What sort of power are you looking at?

Wizard//Facto with something like shadowcraft mage or incantrix would be on the high end. You get insane spells, int to everything, double action in rounds.

Sorc 4/Dread witch 5/Nightmare spinner 5 // Hexblade 3 / Pally Tyrn 2 / Blackguard 2 /something with intimidate would be on the medium and fun flavor. Crazy fear and save bonuses

Spellthief 15 // Something /rogue/ur-priest/luckstealer would be on the mid tier and kinda fun

Facto 3/Duskblade 12 // Wizard (+prestige of your choice) 15 would be also mid tier and fun. Lots of gishy blasty power.

Spellthief 15 // Facto 5ish/Cameleon 10 would be amusing too. Less casting power but a lot of rogue like abilities and some casting. Lower power, but still not too bad.

[toapat]

A particularly silly rule, actually, given that dual-progression PrCs are almost universally weaker than single-class casters and that dual-progression PrCs outside of DMG give abilities other than just dual progression.

For casting, I like beguiler 5/wild mage 1/beguiler x//archivist y. Full spontaneous and prepared casting, UMD for the few spells you can't cast natively, minor skillmonkeying, and a CL 0-5 higher than your level. It's awesome for summoning, since illusions of summons are sometimes just as good as the real thing. Be an Uurkrau illumian to change your archivist spells/day from Wisdom to Dexterity, and then you only need Intelligence, Dexterity, and Constitution (or dump Constitution and be a necropolitan).

except when it comes to the fact that you can make a Sorcerer//Favored Soul or Wizard//Archivist with Mystic Theurge on one side and get dual lvl 9 casting

[Darius Kane]

A particularly silly rule
Except not, because in gestalt it is much much easier to meet the requirements, they're almost a non-issue.


except when it comes to the fact that you can make a Sorcerer//Favored Soul or Wizard//Archivist with Mystic Theurge on one side and get dual lvl 9 casting
Or triple for example by going Wizard/Cleric/MT//Sorcerer.

[Jeff the Green]

Except not, because in gestalt it is much much easier to meet the requirements, they're almost a non-issue.

The solution, then, is not to ban whole swaths of classes with interesting abilities, but to specify that class features only count as prerequisites for PrCs on that side of the gestalt. Having treble or even quadruple 9s isn't any more unbalancing than the double 9s of a Wizard//Archivist.

[tonberrian]

The solution, then, is not to ban whole swaths of classes with interesting abilities, but to specify that class features only count as prerequisites for PrCs on that side of the gestalt. Having treble or even quadruple 9s isn't any more unbalancing than the double 9s of a Wizard//Archivist.

The very idea that there are "sides" in a gestalt is only resultant from the common visual representation of how the build looks - it isn't in the rules as written, and anything based upon it is inherently silly.

[Darius Kane]

The solution, then, is not to ban whole swaths of classes with interesting abilities, but to specify that class features only count as prerequisites for PrCs on that side of the gestalt.
With houserules anything can become a non-problem. And even with this houserule it still is abusable.


Having treble or even quadruple 9s isn't any more unbalancing than the double 9s of a Wizard//Archivist.
I disagree. A Wizard is T1 because theoretically it can do anything. But you need system mastery and a fair amount of optimization to make it happen. With triple 9s you don't even have to particularly try, not to mention the sheer amount of resources and options you get.
A dual caster without optimization might be weak.
A Wizard or Cleric is T1, with optimized dual casting it becomes "T0".
Triple 9s is just overkill.

[Pilo]

Warblade 15/ Wu jen 15, with the body outside body trick.

[Zombulian]

Warblade 15/ Wu jen 15, with the body outside body trick.

Which trick is that? The only one I know is the JPM trick.

[Darius Kane]

Which trick is that? The only one I know is the JPM trick.
Body Outside Body is a spell that creates multiple duplicates of the user. Quite useless to a caster because it doesn't allow spells, but very good for a mostly mundane fighter.

[TuggyNE]

Body Outside Body is a spell that creates multiple duplicates of the user. Quite useless to a caster because it doesn't allow spells, but very good for a mostly mundane fighter.

Almost useless, at least. SLAs and Sus are unaffected, IIRC, and one ingenious build made heavy use of that.

[Zombulian]

Body Outside Body is a spell that creates multiple duplicates of the user. Quite useless to a caster because it doesn't allow spells, but very good for a mostly mundane fighter.

That doesn't sound much like a trick...
I know of the Archmage body outside body trick. Make it an SLA. All of your clones can clone themselves!

[Darius Kane]

That doesn't sound much like a trick...
I don't know any tricks, I just assumed he said "trick" instead of "spell".

[docnessuno]

Wu-Jen 15 // Archivist 10 / Contemplative 1 / Dweomerkeeper 4

Int-Sad with he Academic Priest feat.
Now each of your clones can cast one spell!
At level 17 make it 2 spells, including XP-free wish and miracle!
Also 5 PRC levels (6-10) free to use on either side of the build.

[ericgrau]

Since usually you can only cast one thing at once, you might put offense on one side in the form of a caster and defense or other passive abilities on the other side. A simple example would be:
sorcerer 20 // paladin 2 / barbarian 1 / monk X
You get huge saves, evasion, high speed for kiting, a little extra AC and ok hp.

A real build would probably include prestige classes in place of later sorcerer and monk levels, but you get the idea.

[Rejakor]

Synth Summoner//Totemist/Incarnate


Use Incarnate Avatar (Evil) to pump your damage, enjoy your 50 or so natural attacks per round.

Be a quadruped eidolon(you can just buy arms), grab pounce, large size, huge size, str increase, and all the natural attacks you can afford

You also get shiny summoner spells, so yay.


Alternatively, Druid//Totemist/Incarnate/Monk is a fun thing to play. All the crazy soulbinding, none of the worries.