Class Features as Fighter-only feats

[Slyclops]

I'm working on a scaling feat system based on BAB for Pathfinder Combat feats so mundane classes would have some abilities that scale with level like spells do. I want to do this by taking the existing feat chains and condensing them into single feats that scale by BAB only while at the same time adjusting prereqs to have them make more sense (removing Point Blank Shot as a Rapid Shot prereq, removing Whirlwind Attack from the Mobility feat tree, etc). At the same time, I also want to address the Fighter's lack of class features by having the feats serve a function for them that they will never serve for any other class. So while Cleaving Finish (with Cleave no longer as a prereq) will scale to give Improved Cleaving Finish at +6 BAB, it will also give another bonus ability if the character reaches Fighter level 8.

My first thought was the Frenzied Berserker in Complete Warrior and it's Supreme Cleave and Improved Power Attack abilities. So I'm thinking of giving the Fighter those abilities when they take the regular Cleave and Power attack feats around the ECL the Frenzied Berseker could get them (Fighter Level 8 and 12). These class features are logical continuations of existing feats yet are only available as class features. I want to effectively give these as class features to the Fighter for those who take these feats and I'm wondering what other PrC class features are similar to these two abilities: logical continuations/improvements of existing feats yet are currently available only to certain classes? The only other one coming to mind is the Shou Disciple and it's scaling Dodge bonus.

[Deepbluediver]

Ok, my first thought is: why?

A feat is a feat, and I think it should serve the same purpose for everyone who takes it. If you have ideas for fighter-only benefits, then give them to the fighter as a class feature, the same way every other class get's it's unique talents.

[Glimbur]

There are two different risks you run here.

1) Feats grow significantly with level, so that you can be very good at several combat types. This is a problem, unless there is a very large variety of good combat types, because it makes fighters start to look and play the same.

2) Feats do not grow significantly with level, so you need to invest many feats in to the same style. This is pretty similar to what we have now, and the problem is that without system mastery you can build a character that is mediocre at many things. Because you can only do one thing at once (generally) this makes for a mechanically ineffective character.

What I would recommend is something like ranger fighting styles: they grow with the character but you make important choices so that characters can be different. Whether or not ranger fighting styles actually succeed at this ambition is a different question.

[Yitzi]

There are two different risks you run here.

1) Feats grow significantly with level, so that you can be very good at several combat types. This is a problem, unless there is a very large variety of good combat types, because it makes fighters start to look and play the same.

2) Feats do not grow significantly with level, so you need to invest many feats in to the same style. This is pretty similar to what we have now, and the problem is that without system mastery you can build a character that is mediocre at many things. Because you can only do one thing at once (generally) this makes for a mechanically ineffective character.

I favor "feats grow significantly with level, so you can be good at several combat types at higher levels, and there are a very large variety of good combat types".

For instance, consider the following possible combat types:
-Berserker (think barbarian, but somewhat weaker because it's only one of your numerous combat types)
-Brutal (power attack, improved sunder, etc.)
-Unarmed (unarmed strike, grapple, deflect arrows, and probably trip as well.)
-Dirty fighting (improved feint, melee sneak attack, Dirty Trick as per PF, etc.)
-Ambush (ranged sneak attack, possibly with riders)
-Archery
-Throwing Weapons (would tend to be shorter range than archery, but better for speed)
-Heavy cavalry (charges, trample, etc.)
-Light cavalry (think the sort of thing the Mongols did. Skirmishing, kiting, etc.)
-Two-weapon fighting
-Light weapons (weapon finesse, etc.)
-Reach trip weapons
-Shield use (a lot to be boosted here)
-Defender (maybe give some abilities that could actually make him useful as a meatshield)
-Duelist style (bonuses that can only apply against one enemy; somewhat niche, but if made more powerful could be a useful niche)

Obviously some of them would also have to come with the ability to take appropriate skills. And some would be used simultaneously. But still, that's 15 styles, not counting any other weapon-specific styles you think of and choose to add. Even if a fighter gets a new combat type every 3rd level (since if they scale that much we can afford to slow down feat progression somewhat), that means he can only take not quite half of them by level 20, leaving a lot of room for variety.

[Slyclops]

Ok, my first thought is: why?

A feat is a feat, and I think it should serve the same purpose for everyone who takes it. If you have ideas for fighter-only benefits, then give them to the fighter as a class feature, the same way every other class get's it's unique talents.

My main reason is I don't want to just make fixes to various classes, I want to make a fix I feel will make mundane classes more useful overall. I also feel that since feats were created to be a Fighter's shtick, feats should be special for them in some way outside the incredibly Weapon Specialization feat. I also find the concept of a Fighter being a "build your own type of warrior with feats" concept to be interesting and I would like any class features I make up to reflect that aspect rather then adding an all new subsystem or a list of class features.


There are two different risks you run here.

1) Feats grow significantly with level, so that you can be very good at several combat types. This is a problem, unless there is a very large variety of good combat types, because it makes fighters start to look and play the same.

2) Feats do not grow significantly with level, so you need to invest many feats in to the same style. This is pretty similar to what we have now, and the problem is that without system mastery you can build a character that is mediocre at many things. Because you can only do one thing at once (generally) this makes for a mechanically ineffective character.

I see it more as improving existing feats rather then making one feat gives access to an entire fighting style. Right now I think a lot of feats generally grow less useful with level (anything with a +1 bonus), require too many unrelated prereqs (Whirlwind attack) or require a player going down the entire tree to keep up with the appropriate fighting style (Two Weapon Fighting).

Right now I'm seeing Feats with a static bonus have that bonus increases gradually. Feat Chains are just condensed to one feat that upgrades automatically. I'm also interested in giving a unique bonus at +16 BAB so full BAB characters get a function out of combat feats that classes less dedicated to full combat can not get such as having Improved Disarm grant a free attack or having Improved Sunder deal double damage to a weapon.