Need a bit of help from others who know what they're doing.

[Sasquatch180]

I'm new to D&D, and would like to ask some advice for beginners. Nothing specific, just general stuff.

Also I would like some help building my character. However I don't want my character to be too good, or to be horrible, hence why I am asking for help in building him. Basically I want a character who can't steam-roll through everything, but won't die because of a few bad rolls.

The race I had chosen was the Warforged, and the class I chose was Ranger. Alternatively I would like any class that has range. Now I have his personality and everything about him from a roleplaying perspective down, I just need help stat-wise. Also, and sorry for asking so much, how exactly does the Aim-Point system work?

Any help would be appreciated greatly.

[Telonius]

Welcome to our obsession! :smallbiggrin:

Before I'd give any advice, I'd need a bit more information. First off, what books do you have available? (Some DMs ban lots of books, others it's a free-for-all, most it's somewhere in-between).

Are you creating this as a first-level character, or are you starting at a higher level?

I know you're new to the game, but how experienced are rest of your group? Are they saying things like "Divine Metamagic" or "wizard with a private demiplane?" Or is it going to be more along the lines of, "My fighter is going to take Greater Weapon Specialization when he reaches level 12?"

Is there anything else you can tell us about the character? It sounds like you want him to be an archer-type. Anything else you want him to be able to do? Any particular non-combat thing you'd like him to be good at, anything he absolutely wouldn't do, any particular alignment?

Last (and maybe most importantly for the advice you'll get) - does your DM enforce multiclass experience penalties?

Not sure what you mean by "aim-point" system. Do you just mean target selection?

[Sasquatch180]

Welcome to our obsession! :smallbiggrin:

Before I'd give any advice, I'd need a bit more information. First off, what books do you have available? (Some DMs ban lots of books, others it's a free-for-all, most it's somewhere in-between).

Are you creating this as a first-level character, or are you starting at a higher level?

I know you're new to the game, but how experienced are rest of your group? Are they saying things like "Divine Metamagic" or "wizard with a private demiplane?" Or is it going to be more along the lines of, "My fighter is going to take Greater Weapon Specialization when he reaches level 12?"

Is there anything else you can tell us about the character? It sounds like you want him to be an archer-type. Anything else you want him to be able to do? Any particular non-combat thing you'd like him to be good at, anything he absolutely wouldn't do, any particular alignment?

Last (and maybe most importantly for the advice you'll get) - does your DM enforce multiclass experience penalties?

Not sure what you mean by "aim-point" system. Do you just mean target selection?

As far as I know my DM is allowing all the books. Unfortunately I don't own any, though my DM knows most, if not all of them. He's also big into adding non-official things into the campaign, and lets alot of things slide. The reason I know so much about his type of playstyle is because he told me about his past campaigns, both when he was a DM and a Player.

And the rest of the group are pretty experienced, and they do talk about some of the more advanced stuff, but they always make sure to explain what exactly they are talking about.

My character will be first-level, and I do want him as an archer-type. There's two ways I would like him to be: Either devastating to single targets or able to take on multiple targets with relative ease.
The other thing I would like is for him to be able to hold his own in close-combat. Maybe not as well as an actual close-combat build, but I would like him to be decent.

As far as non-combat goes I'm open to anything, though I would like to be able to make my weapons, or be able to repair myself/heal the party.

Also by Aim-point system I read on one of the wikis (not sure which) about archers being able to pick out specific targets (like an arm, eye, or knee) by spending Aim-points.

Sorry if my anwsers weren't all that clear or helpful.

[TuggyNE]

Also, and sorry for asking so much, how exactly does the Aim-Point system work?

Also by Aim-point system I read on one of the wikis (not sure which) about archers being able to pick out specific targets (like an arm, eye, or knee) by spending Aim-points.

Well, that's homebrew, sadly, so no idea. (I have no idea if that specific homebrew is even vaguely balanced, for that matter.)


My character will be first-level, and I do want him as an archer-type. There's two ways I would like him to be: Either devastating to single targets or able to take on multiple targets with relative ease.
The other thing I would like is for him to be able to hold his own in close-combat. Maybe not as well as an actual close-combat build, but I would like him to be decent.

Warforged is likely to do well enough for you, but Ranger may require a bit of extra work to be really useful. Consider getting an energy bow (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20061227a) if you can, and putting the Splitting enhancement on it once you can afford it.

If you want a bit more tactical variety and don't mind extra work, you could add the Scout class and the Swift Hunter feat, something like Scout 3/Ranger 17. Scout works by adding extra (precision) damage to every attack if you move at least 10 feet in that round, and Swift Hunter allows Ranger levels to count toward more skirmish damage. Combining this with a full attack can be a bit tricky, but there's a comprehensive list of useful ways to do it — Travel Devotion or Anklets of Translocation being perhaps the easiest ones on there.

Note that you'll have to stay fairly close (30') to get off your skirmish damage, so make sure to invest in some defense as soon as you can. Work towards, say, +1 blurring on your armor and a +1 animated heavy shield, and see if you can have a party caster cast magic vestment on them every day. Also, combine small bonuses from various other sources, such as amulet of natural armor and ring of protection; +1s and +2s add up surprisingly fast.


As far as non-combat goes I'm open to anything, though I would like to be able to make my weapons, or be able to repair myself/heal the party.

Rangers can heal efficiently with wands (don't use spell slots for this, you'll never have enough) or perhaps scrolls. (If you have a wizard or sorcerer in the party, you should be set for repair, or a cleric's (lesser) vigor would also be fine.)

[RFLS]

Also by Aim-point system I read on one of the wikis (not sure which) about archers being able to pick out specific targets (like an arm, eye, or knee) by spending Aim-points.

Be very, very careful when using D&D Wiki. It's notorious for having everywhere from massively underpowered to roflmao overpowered homebrew. Also, be sure to run it by your DM if you do use it.

If you're set on playing an archer, see if you can get some Pathfinder allowed, specifically Clustered Shots (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/clustered-shots-combat) and Deadly Aim. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/deadly-aim-combat) If your DM is really chill about stuff, see if you can outright use the Pathfinder melee classes; they get a boatload of nice things that don't break the game. Ranger Archer is buffed, and the Monk (of all things) gets an archetype known as Zen Archer that does very well for itself. Even Fighter is a viable archer.

If you're restricted to 3.5, I do have to say that Ranger does very well as an Archer, although you may need/want a 2 level dip in Fighter due to feat starvation. I believe a standard PrC is Order of the Bow Initiate, but someone needs to verify that (I'm AFB and may be confusing it). Be VERY sure that you're maxing Spot every level, and be sure to get at least 5 ranks in Tumble.


Rangers can heal efficiently with wands (don't use spell slots for this, you'll never have enough) or perhaps scrolls. (If you have a wizard or sorcerer in the party, you should be set for repair, or a cleric's (lesser) vigor would also be fine.)

He's playing a Warforged; I'm guessing you just missed that in the OP. They get reduced effect from Cure spells, if I'm remembering correctly.

[Saidoro]

I don't suppose you could be more explicit about what sort of things your teammates are playing? One of the unfortunate truths of DnD is that there is virtually no correlation between how good people think they are at optimizing it and how good they actually are.
On the brighter side of 3.5: the information you're looking for is almost always going to be compiled ready for use somewhere. You can usually find it by googling for [Name of class/race/party role] handbook. Here are a few of the more pertinent ones for your build: The Ranger Handbook (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872930/The_3.5_Ranger_Handbook) The Archery Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=642.0) The Scout's Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=11034)

For the build:
You'll want your highest ability score in Dexterity, with decent Strength, Wisdom and Constitution scores (For damage with composite bows, spellcasting and not dying respectively.) Int is also useful though you may not have enough points/good rolls left for it. Dump charisma.
For feats(of which you will have one) I suggest either point-blank shot(which isn't very good but is a prereq for later feats) or one of the warforged armor feats.
For your favored enemy select something you think will be relevant to the campaign.

Also, if your teammates really are fairly high-op you could consider requesting of your DM that either The Sagittarius (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6478039&postcount=1) or This Ranger Fix (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165522) be allowed. Both fill a similar party role to the normal ranger, but are better at it and are significantly more pre-optimized, which means you'll have to do less work to keep up.

[Sasquatch180]

Ah thanks so much for the help guys. Also out of curiosity is the Ranger class actually the best one to make an archer from or should I choose a different class. Really the class doesn't matter much to me so long as I can make a good archer from it.

Also thanks for pointing out that the aim-points are homebrew, and about the wiki, this all really helps. :D

[Saidoro]

Yet another unfortunate truth of 3.5 is that most of the best builds are mutts to some degree. Ranger is a useful part of many builds, but it is not a great archer entirely on its own. The Swift Hunter tuggyne proposed would be a relatively simple and effective archer build as would a single-class version of either of the classes I linked if you're looking to largely stay within one or two classes.

[Telonius]

For ability to make your own weapons, pretty much any character can do that, if you're willing to put ranks into one of the Craft skills (bowmaking, in your case). Be warned: if he's using the standard rules, mundane crafting for anything but the simplest items takes absolutely forever.

One Prestige class you might want to look into is the Kensai from Complete Warrior. His shtick is that he gets to enchant a weapon by spending just XP (not gp, like most item crafters). This can save you a significant amount of gold over the course of your career.

For other PrC's: do not be fooled by the "Arcane Archer" class. It fails at both arcane and archery.

Be sure you're aware of the "Greater Manyshot" feat from XPH. If you're looking for "devastating attack against a single foe," this will get you halfway there. (The other half is acquiring a decently-big source of precision damage).

[Magnera]

Actualy, Archer is more or less a concept. There are plenty of feats that you could use. The largest worry with many bowmen is the lack of feats in a character and the fact that if you encounter any monster with DR( Damage Reduction) then you will have a hard time dealing the amount of damage you want to. If you want, go ahead and look into the archer's handbook as it has much information regarding what you want to do. Also, yes this will be VERY confusing to you but give yourself time and soon enough you will understand D&D's impressively complex nature.

[TuggyNE]

He's playing a Warforged; I'm guessing you just missed that in the OP. They get reduced effect from Cure spells, if I'm remembering correctly.

I did notice that, but couldn't remember if they had reduced or nil effect from Conjuration (Healing) spells. In either case, I believe the vigor line works fine, since it's Fast Healing, not positive energy (and even works on undead or non-living constructs).


Be sure you're aware of the "Greater Manyshot" feat from XPH. If you're looking for "devastating attack against a single foe," this will get you halfway there. (The other half is acquiring a decently-big source of precision damage).

Right, I forgot to mention this as a useful way to move and get a lot of shots off with a Swift Hunter.

Also relevant is that if you expect to face any significant numbers of undead, constructs, plants, or other crit-immune enemies, consider getting Favored Enemy for those: FE allows Swift Hunters to get their precision damage on targets that would otherwise be immune to it. So FE: Undead can often be a good choice.


The largest worry with many bowmen is the lack of feats in a character and the fact that if you encounter any monster with DR( Damage Reduction) then you will have a hard time dealing the amount of damage you want to.

Note that merely carrying around some arrows made of special materials can satisfy a lot of DR problems, and getting holy on your bow also tends to help. (Get an Efficient Quiver for 2kgp early on, and carry all your arrows, bow[s], and so forth in it.)

Also, the Energy Bow mentioned earlier is usually considered to bypass DR by virtue of shooting force effects.

[White_Drake]

Have you considered crossbows? They seem more thematically appropriate to Warforged, and great crossbows rock. Pick up the feat Crossbow Sniper (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-handbook-ii--80/crossbow-sniper--488/), and play a warforged scout rather than standard warforged (Monster Manual III) and you could play a rockin' Rogue sniper.

[Rejakor]

If you're looking for a crossbowman, this is probably your best bet. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=11805.0)


I'm a big fan of Targeteer fighter archers, but you can always just slap a level of Targeteer onto a Swift Hunter for that +dex to damage.


There's also some good Sniper builds out there - either the kind of sniper who can't be detected, just arrows from the darkness, or the kind of sniper who sits on a mountaintop a couple of k away from the target and carefully puts an arrow the size of a ballista bolt through their eye.

[gorfnab]

Here is a basic Warforged Swift Hunter Archer build. Also there is this guide: The Swift Hunter's Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=103.0)

Warforged
1. Scout (Complete Adventurer) - Mithral Body (Eberron Campaign Setting)
2. Scout
3. Scout - Point Blank Shot
4. Ranger - *Arcane Hunter ACF (Complete Mage), B: Track
5. Scout - B: Swift Hunter (Complete Scoundrel)
6. Scout - Precise Shot
7. Ranger - B: Rapid Shot
8. Ranger - B: Endurance
9. Ranger - Distracting Attack ACF (Players Handbook II), Nemesis:*Arcanists (Book of Exalted Deeds)
10. Ranger
11. Ranger - B: Manyshot
12. Ranger - Greater Manyshot (Expanded Psionics Handbook)
13. Ranger
14. Ranger - Spell Reflection ACF (Complete Mage)
15. Ranger - Darkstalker (Lords of Madness)
16. Ranger - B: Improved Precise Shot
17. Ranger
18. Ranger - Improved Skirmish (Complete Scoundrel)
19. Ranger
20. Ranger