willpell
2012-10-28, 08:07 AM
Who here uses the Affiliation system in Player's Handbook 2? I think it has the beginnings of what could be an extremely good addition to the D&D rules, though it doesn't go far enough in the areas that matters most, and a little too far in some that don't. I'd be interested in hearing from others who've experimented with these rules, and try to get some ideas as to how they can be better fleshed out.
One of the particular fails that I noticed is with the Scale and Capital mechanics. If I'm reading the book right, every Affiliation starts out with a Leadership character founding it at scale 1 and capital 1. You donate 1000 gold to it over the course of the next month, giving it capital 2. Then you sit and do nothing for 2 months, and it rises to Scale 2. You now donate 4000 gp over the next 2 months, raise it to its new maximum Capital of 4, and wait four months f for it to rise to Scale 3. You then donate 9000 gp in 3 months, wait 6 months, and get to scale 4. You've spent a year and a half building your organization from "neighborhood" influence to "city quarter" influence, and now you have to spend a full year working on it before it will expand to influence the entire city...but you only need to provide any money for the first quarter of that year, and then nothing will happen for eight whole months. This is not ideal.
I'd be interested in working out a better set of rules for modeling the ebb and flow of an affiliation's resources. I also think that there should be a more definitive way of deciding how many Conditions govern your affiliation score, where currently I see no reason not to give every Racial affiliation 13 Conditions, since they'll all be positive. There's also nothing governing how the Benefits should be broken up; you could easily design an Affiliation which had three Benefits, all available with the minimum score (11 for social, 4 for racial), and two Duties for the second score category, which nobody would ever have to suffer unless they were going to try for 30 so they could get Executive Powers. (The Executive Powers are a whole bucket of messed-up in and of themselves, but I don't really want to get into them right now; I'm more interested in the rules you need to *join* an organization, something that you ought to be doing far sooner and more often than *leading* one.)
willpell
2012-11-03, 04:52 AM
Not really on-topic for the thread, but I wanted to share this sample combat I just ran for myself (took about 3-4 hours to do, using Invisible Castle for all die rolls), because I found it to be quite entertaining at times. A lot of people complain that melee is just "two guys standing there swinging swords at each other", and there was some of that effect in this battle, but overall I always felt as if my character had options despite him not having been built with Tome of Battle or any other subsystem. Characters like this make me think that 3E D&D is a perfectly functional game more or less as-written, and it just needs a lot of little tweaks to really bring it to life, without any need for broad, sweeping revisions.
The post below is verbatim from when I wrote it originally on the forum where I RP, and serves to demonstrate how absent-minded I am when juggling the rules and how often I go into asides about possible houserules which I never get around to following up on. The character is Borg the Barbarian, a Neutral Good swordsman with the Exalted feat "Righteous Wrath" (a must-have for barbs wanting to keep a Good alignment, IMO, since it lets you avoid killing innocent bystanders while raging); he's not very optimized but I like him. I recently decided to assign him affiliation in The Chalice (one of the out-of-the-box Affs in PHB2), just to see what would happen; it's not a terribly fitting Aff, but it's at least vaguely close and I wanted to try it out. As a level 9 character, he gets an affiliation score of 4, which would become 6 the next level, but he won't get any benefit until he reaches 11 (and he's invested heavily in his +1 Thundering Longsword, so he wasn't about to trade it for the Holy Avengers which the Chalice vastly prefers), which I figured could be accomplished by taking out two "hits" on fiends of CRs 8 and 10 respectively. Things...didn't quite go according to plan.
*****
For the first fight, we'll go easy on Borg and pit him against an Erinyes, a CR 8. This is supposed to be a routine fight for four characters of only one level lower, so all by himself Borg is going to have trouble with it, but considering he's fighting fiends this isn't too unreasonable; if all goes well it'll be a knock-down fight which will leave him barely alive, and then he'll have to figure out how to beat something tougher.
We'll assume that the fight starts with the two on opposite sides of a 30x30 room, which will ensure the erinyes (Erin hereafter) can't just fly away. Erin will have the average of 85 hit points, while Borg will use his maximum HP value as I do for PCs, giving him a whopping 126. This should help make up for the Erinyes's far higher stats.
Initiative
Borg rolls a 19.
Erin rolls a 1, for a total of 6.
Opting not to Rage just yet, Borg charges, wielding his longsword in two hands with his magic shield floating along nearby. His attack bonus is 14, +2 for the charge; he rolls poorly and gets only a 21, but Erin is flat-footed since she hasn't acted yet, so this hits. Rolling his 1d8+7 damage, he totals 12, so Erin drops to 73 HP.
Erin is not at her best in melee, so she opts to move away, triggering an AoO but having 28 AC versus is thanks to Dodge, Mobility, and not being flat-footed anymore. Borg, however, rolls a natural 20, so his sword booms with thunder and deals 2d8+14 damage and 1d8 sonic damage, rolling a total of 28 and 2 respectively. Erin is down to 43 HP all of a sudden, and must Fortitude save not to go deaf, although she only fails this roll on a 2 or less, which isn't what she gets. Having taken her lumps for moving, she finishes getting over into the other corner of the room (we'll say that she was in the NE and Borg entered at the SE, so he's now 1 space south of the NE corner, and Erin is in the NW now), then she snaps off a shot with her +1 Flaming Longbow. At only 20 AC with the attacker having +15 to her roll, Borg fails to dodge the arrow and takes 12 damage, which is reduced by 1 from his damage reduction, plus 2 fire damage which is not, leaving him at 113 HP.
Borg charges again, this time opting for a Reckless Attack since his AC isn't high enough for defense to really be much of a strategy (besides which this fight is all about him so he might as well go all-out on offense; it's not like he can teleport away if the fight starts going against him). With +18 to hit but his opponent at her full 24 AC, Borg gets a fairly narrow hit by rolling an 8; he dishes out another 9 damage, and suddenly I remember that Erin has Damage Reduction. Borg's sword doesn't overcome this, but does Borg himself? Looks like the answer is "no" (though this is certainly one of the more annoying segments of the rules, and so I had some trouble figuring it out and remain less than certain), so it turns out this instance is only 4 damage and there were 10 damage from before that didn't happen, so Erin actually has 6 more HP than the last time I checked, or 79. Borg is now a bit less cocksure about his chances.
Erin is now trapped in a corner and would need two 5-foot steps to get away, so she decides she had better try to Entangle Borg with her rope. The rules don't provide for any extra advantages when doing this from 5 feet away instead of the allowed 30, and I'm pretty sure Borg gets a Reflex save to avoid the entangling, with a DC which I believe is 16 (there might also have been a hit roll to throw the rope, but Borg's touch AC is 11 so I won't bother rolling to see if she gets a 1). With only +3 on his roll, Borg fails and is Entangled. This gives him -2 to attacks, so Erin now risks moving; a partially bound borg takes a swing at her (still benefitting from Reckless Attack, which cancels the penalty and gives him his standard +14 to hit), but rolls a 4 and misses, so she effortlessly waltzes back over to the NE corner.
At half speed and unable to charge, Borg decides it's time for him to Rage; this is risky because he'll be Fatigued if victory eludes him for more than 7 rounds, but he gives it a shot anyway. He gains 18 hit points to put him at 131, then moves 20 feet as a move action (the most his Entangled status allows, and enough to get him adjacent to the Erinyes in this conveniently small room), and takes a swing at Erin with +9 BAB, +6 for his raging Strength, +1 for the enchanted sword, -2 for the net, totaling his usual 14, and +2 from a Reckless Offense again. Rolling with +16 to hit, he gets a total of 30 and skewers the devil for 1d8+10 damage, getting a near-maximum roll of 17, of which 12 gets through the fiend's damage reduction. Erin is left at 67 HP.
There ought to be some maneuver Erin can use to push over the partially-mummified victim of her rope and leave him prone, but I don't know of one, other than Bull Rush which probably doesn't work especially well here. So instead she'll try to Grapple him so she can drag him into the corner (again, it ought to be easier to Grapple a roped-up victim but I don't know exactly how; I also am not sure how to deal with her bow but I'll just rule she hangs it over her shoulder for a moment as a free action, even though this maybe shouldn't be legal). She moves first so as to use up Borg's AoO for the turn while getting the Mobility bonus to AC; Borg rolls really well, though, and tags her for, again, 17 damage, reduced by DR and dropping her HP to 55. As well, I remember belatedly that the last attack should have had her saving against Righteous Wrath, but I'll do it now since it would have made little difference. She easily makes the save, but the AoO means her grapple has failed, so she just moves (to the NW corner again), taking her bow back in hand.
Borg stumbles over and attacks again (I'm really going to have to figure out a way of dealing with this rather boring "move, attack once, move, attack once" pattern if my fights are ever going to be any fun). Seeing that it's going to be hard to put this fight away within his remaining 6 turns of Rage, he decides he'll risk Power Attacking for 2, which means his Reckless Attack hits her on a 10 or more, but he'll do +4 damage if he hits. Rolling with effectively +14 for his Reckless Power Attack, he nails her with a roll of 18, just failing to crit. He dishes out 19 damage, 5 of it prevented, and Erin falls to 41 HP.
Seeing that things aren't quite going her way, Erin decides it's time to use one of her spell-like abilities; Greater Teleport and Charm Monster are both forbidden since they just end the encounter, and Minor Image is not likely to accomplish much in the middle of a fight, but that still leaves Unholy Blight. She checks Concentration to avoid an AoO for the effort; Unholy Blight is a 4th-level spell, so her DC is 19, but she has +17 to the check so she can only fail on a 1. She rolls a 2; guess Invisible Castle doesn't quite hate me, but just wants to remind me who's boss. Unholy Blight is successfully cast, and Borg rolls his DC 19 Will save to resist it; Will is the other of his non-good saves (the Erinyes refuses on principle to inflict a Fortitude save on the barbarian who's attacked her), so he has only a +4 because of his tolerable Wisdom, and he does not make it; the Blight deals him 5d8 damage and sickens him for 1d4 rounds. A very good roll for Erin's damage; 26 of Borg's HP wither and fall off, leaving him at 105, and he's got -2 to basically all his rolls for 2 rounds. At this point I think I'd better start doing a status-track line before each action. Meanwhile, her spell has done its work so Erin moves back to the NE corner.
Borg (105 HP, raging for 4 more rounds, sickened for 1 more rounds, Entangled)
Borg is now at -4 on his attacks, which really cramps his style Power Attack wise, so he decides it's high time he made a Strength check to burst his bonds, giving up this attack to make the next one more effective. I can't find what the action is on this so I'll just assume it's a full round simply so he can be stuck standing at range for long enough that I can have Erin shoot at him, as I'm bored with her not doing so. With a Strength of 22 and no Skill ranks to add (calling for some checks which you can add 4-23 to depending on level and others which don't strikes me as rather less than fair, but I don't know how to fix it), and a DC of 23, Borg is likely to fail, but instead he rolls a 20. Would have rather saved that for a critical hit, but oh well; at least he's out of the rope.
Erin (41 HP)
Finally able to stand for a round at a distance from her foe, Erin unleashes a Rapid Shot barrage; Borg has his full AC since he didn't Recklessly Offend this round, but he's still only got 20 AC, and Erin's first two attacks are at +14 since she's within Point-Blank range. Unfortunately her first shot rolls a 1 and auto-misses; her second does better and hits for 7 damage, with Borg shrugging off 1, plus 1 point of fire. Then her final shot comes with only a +8 to-hit, and naturally she rolls a 19. 8 more damage, minus 1 from DR, and 3 from the fire (she really needs to make those arrows burn hotter), so Borg drops to 88 HP.
Borg (88 HP, raging for 3 more rounds, sickened)
Charging, Borg Recklessly Offends to counteract the sickness, and has +16 to hit yet again. He rolls quite well, making him wish he'd Power Attacked, and drives home the maximum damage of 18 before DR; Erin is definitely not looking so good anymore, and the sickness of Unholy Blight wears off.
Erin (23 HP)
Well, being an archer was fun for one round, but now Erin decides to go back to being a cleric and does Unholy Blight again, casting defensively with no trouble. Borg makes the save this time, though, and takes only half of the mere 16 damage rolled, leaving him at 80. Naturally she moves again, and Borg moves after her on his turn. And because I've been forgetting to roll AoOs when these auto-moves happen, I'll assume they all missed.
Borg (80 HP, raging for 2 more rounds)
Devoid of penalties for a change, Borg can Recklessly Offend for +18 to-hit, and would then only miss Erin on a 5 or less, but he decides he'd like to try and end this fight before she gets another Blight off, so he takes a -5 penalty (the maximum would be -9, but that's a little too reckless when your opponent is this tough) - and rolls a 3. Sigh. At least the Power Attack wasn't what made him miss.
Erin (23 HP)
Very much not liking what would have happened if that Power Attack had landed, Erin throws another Blight (I am momentarily tempted to fluff these "cold cloying miasma" spreads as being diabolic farts, just to take the 20-Charisma Erinyes down a peg), knowing that Borg is unlikely to make the save this time, and indeed he doesn't. He takes 24 damage and is Sickened again, though just for 1 round. She then moves, and Borg swings his AoO, which is still a Reckless Power Offense Attack for +2 and -5 to-hit, with his raging Strength of +6 and -2 from the sickness, so his to-hit is just 1 above his BAB of 9. A roll of 2 is just typical at this point, and so Erin gets away clean.
Borg (56 HP, raging for 1 more rounds, sickened)
Borg debates busting out his Oil of Bless Weapon at this point, but decides the situation isn't quite desperate enough to waste a turn of his attack; he simply charges again, Power Attacking for -2 with Reckless Offense, for a total of +14 to hit. 21 is not quite a good enough total to hit Erin; again, he thankfully didn't only miss because of Power Attack.
Erin (23 HP)
The Erinyes yet again spams her at-will spell (what would she do if her attacker was Evil or even Neutral, I wonder?), rolling low on the Concentration check but not quite low enough to fail; Borg miserably fails the save and takes 23 damage, dropping him below where Erin had fallen before she remembered her spell, and she has only been hit once since then. Deciding that it would be terribly embarassing to die of an AoO at this point, she opts not to move; this way, while the second slash she's allowing Borg to make on his turn won't have her +4 AC from Mobility to contend with, it will take a -5 penalty just by being iterative, so ultimately it's a win for her and she should quick moving every turn. (It would be nice if I could ever figure these things out beforehand.)
Borg (33 HP, raging, sickened)
On his last turn of rage, Borg finally gets to Full Attack, but he can't charge and he's Sickened again (once again the roll was for just 1 turn). About to lose a full -4 from his attack rolls next turn, he decides he'd better not Power Attack anymore; if the Fatigue sets in, he'll mostly just be hoping for criticals to have any hope of finishing his foe anyway. So he rolls straight Reckless Offenses at +16 and +11, and the first one hits; he gets maximum damage again, putting Erin down to just 10 HP. The second attack falls 6 points short of Erin's Dodge-assisted AC, so it wouldn't have hit even if it hadn't had the Iterative penalty. But at least Erin is boxed into the corner and can't avoid AoOs if she wants to move. It's not clear to me whether the rage ends immediately or lasts the round; for the moment I'll rule the latter.
Erin (10 HP)
Feeling distinctly crowded, Erin debates making ranged attacks despite the 5-foot range, which I'd previously thought was impossible but now remember can be done, though it provokes yet another AoO, and one without Mobility's bonus against it. Still, no reason not to stick with what's worked so far. She concentrates to invoke Unholy Blight defensively - and again rolls a 2, just barely not failing. Borg fails the save, taking 24 damage and falling to 9 HP; he'll also be sickened for some length of time but it doesn't matter how long....
...because when Borg's turn comes around again, his rage ends, and he gets a little more than just Fatigued; his +18 hit points vanish and he comes within 1 hit point of instant death. Rather than have one of my pet NPCs actually die, I'll rule that the Erinyes has a potion to feed him, but that this also entitled her to use Charm Monster on him and then Teleport away while he goes and does her a "favor". Since being defeated by a fiend is a -4 to your affiliation score in the Chalice, and succumbing to her Charms might qualify as "friends with a half-fiend, tiefling, etc" depending on just how jerkish the Chalice's dragoons are (which, being that their patron god is Lawful, I'm inclined to think is "fairly"), resulting in a whopping -10...it looks like Borg's association with the Chalice was pretty short-lived. Oh well, at least he's not at risk of becoming Lawful and losing his Barbarian powers.
*******
I'd say the takeaway from this fight is as follows:
1. A spell-like ability as potentially lethal as Unholy Blight really shouldn't be useable at-will. Once I remembered it was there, I couldn't find any reason not to just use it over and over until the opponent died. Alignment issues aside, it's just ridiculously strong and ought to have some sort of use limit (I'd favor the idea of it having to be charged somehow, like you can only take so much Evil with you while you're out of Hell and you have to eventually go back to get more, so there'd be limited uses per sojourn to the Material plane).
2. For that matter, having Unholy Blight meant that the erinyes didn't shoot her bow much, and thus didn't need to deal with Borg's AC, so he was never tempted not to use Reckless Offense. (Why that feat is in the Expanded Psionics Handbook I don't know, as it would be distinctly more interactive in a game without even magic, let alone psionics as well.) The fight was fairly interesting, with lots of knobs to turn when deciding how hard to try and attack, but it would have been much better if the Unholy Blight had been more limited.
3. Even taking away her Flight, Teleport and Charm advantages and trapping her in a small room with no cover, an Erinyes is still definitely a very tough opponent for a single un-optimized character. A level 9 Fighter with a Holy Avenger and some feats that boost his Will Save might have won this fight, and a Paladin would have done even better (to say nothing of wizards or clerics), but Borg was nowhere near the devil's weight class. (I completely forgot that she had the option of summoning other devils, which would have made him even more screwed, though it was only half-likely to work and thus not really worth an action when you had Unholy Blight as an alternative.)
4. Next time Borg wants to kill an evil monster with damage reduction, he really needs to apply Oil of Bless Weapon first, then Charge, Rage, Power Attack, and Reckless Offend all on that first weapon, and hope for a critical threat. (I believe when I did roll a natural 20, I forgot that crits don't automatically succeed; neverthless it would help a lot if they did, and the Oil makes that happen.) I'm not normally a big fan of nova'ing out, and normally prefer to open with a cautious defenses-testing attack before I start taking risks with PA and the like, but as it worked out this was Borg's fight to lose and he succeeded in doing so.
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