[PF]Caster Cleric Question...

[Giegue]

A quick question. I am building an evil, casting-focused cleric for a Pathfinder campaign and am wondering something. Is it ok to start off with a 16 post racial in wisdom in the name of pumping cha up a bit for better channeling DCs, more channels per day and better skills?(Trickery is one of my domains) I am not sure if I should do this or not and as a result am turning to all of you. Is 16 starting wisdom post racial enough or should I drop to 14 cha from 16 and pump wis to 18? If at all possible I'd prefer to go 16 starting wis, 16 starting cha, but before I do that I want to know how much it would hurt for a cleric looking to be more focused on casting then melee?

[Deathkeeper]

From what I've read here and from a bit of experience, Channeling really isn't that great as an offensive power. My parties' clerics rarely used it for offense. I think you'd be better off with an extra spell per day.
And in playstyle in general, I really don't see a huge problem with a caster cleric. The only problem might be that you have to get close to your allies to cast Cure X Wounds which would put you in melee range of enemies, but there are ways around that. And also why you have Channel Positive.

[Giegue]

It's an evil game, so I am channeling Negative energy, not positive. Evil clerics are forbidden from channeling positive energy, and I don't intend on switching to neutral. Also, I was under the impression that a cleric with 18 wisdom received the same number of bonus spells as a cleric with 16 wisdom It's only when you reach 20+ that you start getting more bonus spells. Was I wrong in this? Do the bonus spells stack(As in the table lists 1 bonus spell at 16, and 1 at 18, I thought this meant that if you have 16, you get one bonus spell and if you have 18 you get one. Does this actually mean that you get 2 bonus spells instead?(as in the two bonus spells stack?)

[Deathkeeper]

My bad. Can't read today apparently. I suppose it's still perfectly viable as an attack option, but the slow rate of damage increases will make it relatively weak.
But going from 16 to 18 WIS nets you a bonus level 4 spell each day. Everything else is the same. But I've been saved by a level 4 spell too often to say "just one."

[Giegue]

Yeah, and there is also the matter of DCs to take into consideration. DCs will be slightly better with 18 as appose to 16. 16 will net fine DCs, though, and at higher levels + wis items can make up for this in a big way.

[Ravenica]

Go for the wisdom, the extra point for your channelbomb and skill level won't make as much difference as the extra spell and higher casting dc. The DC for channeling just doesn't keep up unless you are an Oracle.

[Blyte]

alternatively, you could go life oracle and take the versatile channeling feat.

at work now, so I can't fact check this, but this should allow you to both heal and harm with your channels and make you SAD.

[Corlindale]

Yeah, I would recommend focusing on wisdom too. Cha affects DC for Channeling, but Wis affects DC for EVERYTHING else, on top of giving you extra spells/day.

[grarrrg]

alternatively, you could go life oracle and take the versatile channeling feat.

at work now, so I can't fact check this, but this should allow you to both heal and harm with your channels and make you SAD.

Nope.
The feat itself specifically says it can, well... [copy/pasta (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/versatile-channeler)]


This feat only applies to necromancers, neutral clerics who worship neutral deities, or neutral clerics who do not worship a deity -- characters who have the channel energy class ability and have to make a choice to channel positive or negative energy at 1st level. Clerics whose alignment or deity makes this choice for them cannot select this feat.

Oracles cannot choose which type they Channel, so are ineligible for this feat.

[Blyte]

so what would an evil life oracle channel? would they still channel positive like standard life oracles or would the rule about evil only channeling negative overrule that?

either way, I think the life oracle is a better option in my opinion.

[navar100]

As a caster cleric spells means everything. Go for the wisdom. You're dumping strength and dexterity isn't so high a priority, so you'll have a decent Charisma anyway. Take Extra Channeling feat if you feel you're running out of them so fast. Not at 1st level, necessarily. See how often you are using it to gauge whether you need it or not.

As an aside, despite being evil, I do suggest you take Selective Channeling as well to keep your party members out of harms way.

[grarrrg]

so what would an evil life oracle channel? would they still channel positive like standard life oracles or would the rule about evil only channeling negative overrule that?

either way, I think the life oracle is a better option in my opinion.

The Life Mystery Channel ability specifically calls out Positive Energy. There is no choice.
Likewise, the Bones and Juju Mysteries specifically give you Negative Channeling (but only to Command Undead).

As for the 'rule about evil only channeling negative', that rule is specific to Clerics, not to Channeling.

[Ravenica]

of course ymmv as a DM I have allowed life oracles to take it in the past

[Blyte]

thanks, so I guess it depends on whether you are open to channel positive or not.

I think it (life oracle) would be a nice option for role playing... your evil character could cringe everytime he releases his positive energy. I can't see any of your party members complaining about it.

[Psyren]

For a caster cleric, I recommend the Theologian archetype. This lets you prepare domain spells in your normal spell slots; with the right domain, this will let you blast, debuff, control etc. more effectively. However, you only get one domain with this archetype, so make it a good one.

[grarrrg]

I think it (life oracle) would be a nice option for role playing... your evil character could cringe everytime he releases his positive energy. I can't see any of your party members complaining about it.

The problem is not an Evil character Channeling Positive energy.

The REAL problem is why an Evil character would take the Life Mystery in the first place. An Evil Character with the Life Mystery would know what they were getting into, so there would be no "cringing".

[Arbane]

The REAL problem is why an Evil character would take the Life Mystery in the first place.

Oracles don't take Mysteries.

The Mysteries take THEM. :smallbiggrin:

[grarrrg]

Oracles don't take Mysteries.

The Mysteries take THEM. :smallbiggrin:

Are they Russian now?

[Blyte]

The problem is not an Evil character Channeling Positive energy.

The REAL problem is why an Evil character would take the Life Mystery in the first place. An Evil Character with the Life Mystery would know what they were getting into, so there would be no "cringing".

what I remember reading about oracles, is that they gain their favor from higher powers which choose them, not the other way around. IE they don't even need to worship a deity to cast divine spells, etc..

through some strange twist of fate or family line, his evil character could be a life oracle. now what he does with this power is another story. they always seemed in my opinion like sorcerers in that regard. wizards study magic and sorcerers just have it come naturally. Clerics worship a deity, while oracles gain the favor of powerful beings, sometimes through no deed or fault of their own.

[Larpus]

what I remember reading about oracles, is that they gain their favor from higher powers which choose them, not the other way around. IE they don't even need to worship a deity to cast divine spells, etc..

through some strange twist of fate or family line, his evil character could be a life oracle. now what he does with this power is another story. they always seemed in my opinion like sorcerers in that regard. wizards study magic and sorcerers just have it come naturally. Clerics worship a deity, while oracles gain the favor of powerful beings, sometimes through no deed or fault of their own.
Indeed, I've always see Oracles pretty much as divine Sorcerers. Aka. "I was a normal dude until yesterday, when I farted and a house exploded due to it".

And regarding the evil Life Oracle...well, your powers don't determine your choices in life, pretty much any power in the book can be used for both good and evil.

[grarrrg]

through some strange twist of fate or family line, his evil character could be a life oracle. now what he does with this power is another story.

Yes and no.
We are both correct (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle): (bolded for emphasis)

Although the gods work through many agents, perhaps none is more mysterious than the oracle. These divine vessels are granted power without their choice, selected by providence to wield powers that even they do not fully understand. Unlike a cleric, who draws her magic through devotion to a deity, oracles garner strength and power from many sources, namely those patron deities who support their ideals. Instead of worshiping a single source, oracles tend to venerate all of the gods that share their beliefs. While some see the powers of the oracle as a gift, others view them as a curse, changing the life of the chosen in unforeseen ways.

So in order for an Evil Oracle to get the Life Mystery, they must have "healing stuff" as one of their "Ideals".
So "Johnny the Homicidal Maniac" is VERY unlikely to get the Life Mystery shoved onto him, and is much more likely to receive "Bones" or "Battle" or such.

[Psyren]

But your own quote shows that the powers of the Oracle can change their outlook in addition to simply affirming it. So Homicidal Johnny might indeed get the Life Mystery, causing him to rethink his murderous nature if he uses its powers often enough. Similar to how Sesshomaru of Inuyasha fame, the sadistic full-demon brother, was left the sword of healing by his quasi-deific father and ended up slowly learning compassion as a result.