Vera's Bewildering Conversation [Spell, 3.5]

[ideasmith]

Vera's Bewildering Conversation
Illusion (Glamer) [language-dependent]
Level: Bard 2, Sorcerer/Wizard 3
Components: V, S
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Targets: You
Duration: 10 min./level
While this spell is in effect, you can send messages of twenty-five words or less (but not receive replies) with little chance of being overheard. Once per round, as a free action, you can send a message to each creature within 180 feet whose basic location you know (or correctly guess).
Each creature recieving a message sees and hears the caster speak the message to the recipient, in a language chosen by the caster from those languages she can speak, as if she were actually doing so. This spell does not in itself provide information about who else might have recieved messages, let alone what the contents of such messages might be.

Change Log
10/30/2012 Clarified what message recipients see and hear. (Thank you Gamer Girl, tuggyne, willpell.)
10/30/2011 Corrected spelling of 'Glamer'. (Thank you, tuggyne.)
10/30/2012 Added language-dependent descriptor. (Thank you Gamer Girl, tuggyne.)
10/30/2012 Removed from Cleric list. (Thank you, tuggyne.)

[Gamer Girl]

What?

First off why is this an illusion? And a glamour? This spell is not an illusion and does not 'hide' or alter the look of anything?

The spell looks to be based off of the cantrip Message, and that is a Transmutation.

The range and target don't let you send the words anywhere?

And then the spell is way over powered. As a free action you can send a message to hundreds of people? That is way too much of an effect. Whispering Wind, the 2nd level advanced message can still only send one message to one person. A spell that can send an unlimited number of messages to and unlimited number of persons per round would be more like a 5th or 6th level spell.

The spell is language dependent right? Then why does it have the line "A creature with an Intelligence score as low as 3 can understand the message. ''? So anyone can understand the message no matter what language it's in? If so the spell is way too powerful...

And how is this spell ''Bewildering'' in effect?

[JoshuaZ]

In addition to Gamer Girl's comments (which I agree with), I'm confused by the line "The spell meaning sound not meaning."

[willpell]

What exactly is Bewildering about this? It sounds like a glorified loudspeaker. Give us a Sending that also inflicts Confused status on the target! Or Wisdom damage...you can tell the mayor of the nearby town what you saw in the Dark Tower, but will he ever be able to communicate it coherently to anyone else? Could be a lot of fun. Give it an insane range and no word limit, with the drawback balancing it.

[Saidoro]

Once per round, as a free action, you can send a message to any number of creatures? each creature within 180 feet whose basic location you know (or correctly guess).
The spell transmits? meaning sound not meaning.
The message is recognizable as your voice Each creature receiving a message will recognize you if it knows you, but this spell does not in itself give provide information about who else might have recieved messages, let alone what the contents of such messages might be.
With a range of only 180 feet this is far from overpowered, if anything I'd usually rather cast message even if they were the same spell level. You rarely need to communicate with more than your teammates.

For those worried about it being overpowered: recall that you can already send messages to any number of people in 180 feet. It's called talking.

[Yitzi]

In addition to Gamer Girl's comments (which I agree with), I'm confused by the line "The spell meaning sound not meaning."

Maybe that's why it's called "bewildering". :smalltongue:

[TuggyNE]

Vera's Bewildering Conversation
Illusion (Glamour)
Level: Bard 2, Clr 3, Sorcerer/Wizard 3

Needs [language-dependent] descriptor, "glamer" should be spelled correctly (or more likely changed to figment, which is a more appropriate subschool), and probably shouldn't be a Cleric spell?


While this spell is in effect, you can send messages of twenty-five words or less (but not receive replies) with little chance of being overheard. Once per round, as a free action, you can send a message to each creature within 180 feet whose basic location you know (or correctly guess).

The "little chance" is nowhere defined; what are the conditions for overhearing?

Also, I don't get the bewildering part of this.


The spell meaning sound not meaning.

Oh wait yes I do.


It does not transcend language barriers. The subject recognizes you if it knows you. A creature with an Intelligence score as low as 3 can understand the message.

Each creature receiving a message will recognize you if it knows you, but this spell does not in itself give provide information about who else might have recieved messages, let alone what the contents of such messages might be.

Should be condensed to "Your voice is recognizable as your own."


Maybe that's why it's called "bewildering". :smalltongue:

That's pretty much what I figured too! :smallbiggrin:

[ideasmith]

What?
First off why is this an illusion? And a glamour? This spell is not an illusion and does not 'hide' or alter the look of anything? The spell looks to be based off of the cantrip Message, and that is a Transmutation.

"glamer" should be spelled correctly (or more likely changed to figment, which is a more appropriate subschool),
The spell (and I have now revised the spell's wording so it acutually says this) causes others to see the caster saying things she is not saying. This is changing the casters's sensory qualities, which makes it a glamer. Spelling now corrected.

The range and target don't let you send the words anywhere?
This spell enables it's target to transmit messages. The range and target mean that only the caster can be given that ability.

And then the spell is way over powered. As a free action you can send a message to hundreds of people? That is way too much of an effect.
Whispering Wind, the 2nd level advanced message can still only send one message to one person. A spell that can send an unlimited number of messages to and unlimited number of persons per round would be more like a 5th or 6th level spell.

With a range of only 180 feet this is far from overpowered, if anything I'd usually rather cast message even if they were the same spell level.
You rarely need to communicate with more than your teammates.
For those worried about it being overpowered: recall that you can already send messages to any number of people in 180 feet. It's called talking.
I am leaving the level where it is for now. (By the way, whispering wind effects an area.)

The spell is language dependent right?

Needs [language-dependent] descriptor,
Good catch. Descriptor added.

Then why does it have the line "A creature with an Intelligence score as low as 3 can understand the message. ''? So anyone can understand the message no matter what language it's in? If so the spell is way too powerful...

In addition to Gamer Girl's comments (which I agree with), I'm confused by the line "The spell meaning sound not meaning."

Maybe that's why it's called "bewildering". :smalltongue:

Oh wait yes I do.
Should be condensed to "Your voice is recognizable as your own."
Those were errors. Fixed.

And how is this spell ''Bewildering'' in effect?

What exactly is Bewildering about this?

Also, I don't get the bewildering part of this.
If the caster is using this spell to converse on unrelated subjects, the result is apt to be bewildering to someone who doesn't know about this spell.

and probably shouldn't be a Cleric spell?

Don't see your reasoning.

The "little chance" is nowhere defined; what are the conditions for overhearing?
A magical effect that allows such overhearing. Detect thoughts probably qualifies.

[TuggyNE]

The spell (and I have now revised the spell's wording so it acutually says this) causes others to see the caster saying things she is not saying. This is changing the casters's sensory qualities, which makes it a glamer.

I would peg it as a figment, as it's creating false sensations more than changing, say, the appearance of the caster.


If the caster is using this spell to converse on unrelated subjects, the result is apt to be bewildering to someone who doesn't know about this spell.

Fair enough, although the fact that there's no mechanical effect to this is somewhat discouraging.


Don't see your reasoning.

The fluff of using subtle trickery to affect people doesn't fit well with most cleric spellcasting methodology. In core, for example, clerics get exactly one illusion spell (silence), compared to the dozens bards, sorcerers, and wizards have. Basically, illusions just aren't generally divine magic, with the exception of four or five spells in a pair of domains (Luck and Trickery).

[ideasmith]

I would peg it as a figment, as it's creating false sensations more than changing, say, the appearance of the caster.
On checking the rules for figments, if find that "Those who perceive the figment perceive the same thing, not their own slightly different versions of the figment." So definately not a figment.


Fair enough, although the fact that there's no mechanical effect to this is somewhat discouraging.
Any suggestions for a rename?


The fluff of using subtle trickery to affect people doesn't fit well with most cleric spellcasting methodology. In core, for example, clerics get exactly one illusion spell (silence), compared to the dozens bards, sorcerers, and wizards have. Basically, illusions just aren't generally divine magic, with the exception of four or five spells in a pair of domains (Luck and Trickery).
You've convinced me. Change made.

[TuggyNE]

On checking the rules for figments, if find that "Those who perceive the figment perceive the same thing, not their own slightly different versions of the figment." So definately not a figment.

Hmm, fair enough.


Any suggestions for a rename?

I'd prefer giving it an actual mechanical effect, rather than renaming it to "Vera's Short-Range Broadcasting" or whatever. For example, anyone hit by it has to make a Will save or be confused for a round; however, if you try to confuse more than, say, 10 people in a round you get confused yourself, or perhaps dazed. (Obviously it would then take on the mind-affecting descriptor as well, and probably the sonic descriptor. It might also go up a couple of levels, since it's slightly more powerful than confusion.)